Framing this as a "Rutherford for Todd Frazier!" deal is utterly stupefying.
Feel free to not like the deal (for it isn't a no-brainer by any stretch), but if that's your angle, you're either being disingenuous or you just don't get it.
RE: again: it's not trading Rutherford that bothers me
Time will tell if this trade works out. There's high risk in every trade in every sport. If the Yanks get in the playoffs and get hot and win it all - Cashman will seem like a genius. If they continue to struggle like they have the last month, Cash will be looking for a job and we will hear fans bitching and moaning about this deal for the next decade.
Maybe he's legit, but baseball history is littered with relievers who have one anomalous incredible season that is never repeated. Just seems like an awfully big risk to take.
It also rankles me that they didn't want to pay Robertson $12 million per to be their closer, but now trade for him so they can pay him $12 million to set up. Don't get me wrong, I've always been a fan of Robertson, but it just seems like a silly way to operate.
Not re-signing Robertson netted them an extra first round pick and freed them up to get Andrew Miller though. And we all know the package that Miller brought back
Framing this as a "Rutherford for Todd Frazier!" deal is utterly stupefying.
Feel free to not like the deal (for it isn't a no-brainer by any stretch), but if that's your angle, you're either being disingenuous or you just don't get it.
It was more like a Clint Frazier for Rutherford trade as I said, because if we kept Miller we don't make this trade.
Everyone raves about Frazier, I find him and his swing to be unimpressive. I think someone said it before, simply because Sanchez and Judge have done well, that doesn't mean all our prospects are not tradeable. Rutherford trade is a direct result of making one trade too many last year. we ended up with a worse reliever and now Frazier needs to be better than Rutherford over their career or these two trades will be awful.
You've found Frazier to be unimpressive so far in the big leagues? Interesting.
He's had the job for 20 years now and just pulled off a hell of a rapid rebuild of the farm. Even if the trade bombs, it's one trade.
Cashman isn't going anywhere because if he was held accountable for the amount of resources he has versus what he has produced this century, he would have been fired long ago.
Everyone raves about Frazier, I find him and his swing to be unimpressive. I think someone said it before, simply because Sanchez and Judge have done well, that doesn't mean all our prospects are not tradeable. Rutherford trade is a direct result of making one trade too many last year. we ended up with a worse reliever and now Frazier needs to be better than Rutherford over their career or these two trades will be awful.
You've found Frazier to be unimpressive so far in the big leagues? Interesting.
OPS over 1.000 (without taking his walks yet) going into last night's game where he hit almost everything hard. Turned around a 99 mph fastball up for a walk off home run against one of the best closers in the NL a week and a half ago. Shown great baserunning instincts.
His swing is slightly unorthodox, though he's mentioned already making some adjustments. His talent is evident and he's already contributed significantly.
If we didn't make the Miller trade we wouldn't have made this trade?
It's simple logic, really. Frazier is going to be a MLB ballplayer, and I pray I am wrong, but he doesn't scream future all-star to me. Now, to be fair, I have no idea how Rutherford will turn out either, my point is the way to judge this trade in some ways is how the Clint Frazier and Blake Rutherford ultimately pan out. There is a concept of cause and effect, no?
OPS over 1.000 (without taking his walks yet) going into last night's game where he hit almost everything hard. Turned around a 99 mph fastball up for a walk off home run against one of the best closers in the NL a week and a half ago. Shown great baserunning instincts.
His swing is slightly unorthodox, though he's mentioned already making some adjustments. His talent is evident and he's already contributed significantly.
Your logic on this deal is quite warped
This is correct. Essex has been very vocal about his disdain for the Miller trade since it happened. Frazier has no chance with him. He's already made his mind up on him. Long before he ever seen him play.
Oh by the way, Sheffield looks very good too and will hopefully be a key cog in the rotation within the next couple of years. But I'm sure he doesn't impress Essex either.
I think Clint Frazier is a player. He brings a dimension of speed
I definitely think Frazier is a long time MLB player, my skepticism is that he will a very good one. As I said, I hope you guys can laugh in my face about what an idiot i am when Frazier is a star.
they very well still might have made this trade. Even if they had Miller instead of Chapman.
Oh, Betances has been consistent. He consistently comes in the game in the 8th, gets a strike out, but then somehow always manages to load the bases with walks and hits. Then he either pitches out of it or loses the game for us. And that unfortunately, is all too consistent. It seems he only concentrates on the hitters once he's loaded the bases. Drives me up a wall!
they very well still might have made this trade. Even if they had Miller instead of Chapman.
Oh, Betances has been consistent. He consistently comes in the game in the 8th, gets a strike out, but then somehow always manages to load the bases with walks and hits. Then he either pitches out of it or loses the game for us. And that unfortunately, is all too consistent. It seems he only concentrates on the hitters once he's loaded the bases. Drives me up a wall!
Fuuny, sounds just like Robertson. :-)
I expected Frazier to look like last year's version of Judge.
I assume you mean Clint, not Todd. We're going to have to get used to putting a "C" or a "T" in front of the name Frazier when we type from now on.
And I agree with you since I assume you mean Clint. He's getting a feel for major league pitching and playing in front of huge crowds and millions at home watching the game on TV. It's an adjustment. But he is very talented and will figure it all out. It happens with almost all rookies when they get called up for the first time. Choi is a bit of an aberration that probably won't last.
Framing this as a "Rutherford for Todd Frazier!" deal is utterly stupefying.
Feel free to not like the deal (for it isn't a no-brainer by any stretch), but if that's your angle, you're either being disingenuous or you just don't get it.
Also forgetting that Clarkin and Polo were Rule 5 eligible after season is mind numbing. They basically dealt Rutherford and 2 kids that were possibly gone in Rule 5 for essentially the 2 best bullpen arms available (based upon k/9) and a 3B with power. Also look up frazier's stats away from Chicago. Theyre not bad.
Robertson under contract thru next year, Kahnle under control until 202!! Add in Clippard being gone and im doing cartwheels.
Finally - im telling you theyre higher on Florial than Rutherford.
Can't argue with Cashman's recent successes, but I wish he could have found a way to keep Blake Rutherford. He was really coming on strong for the RiverDogs, he won a game this week with a walk-off homer. He's been stealing a few bases too. At 6'3" he could carry a little more than his current 195-200lbs.
who the yanks promoted over fraizer. He can stick in center as well as florial coming and Mateo bouncing back. And if Hicks comes back and hits like he was before he got hurt, he is part of the future also.
Yanks need to move Gardner or Ellsbury if hicks comes back and both have to go before next season.
Kinda jealous what the Yanks are doing. Not a fan of Frazier but he is a good clubhouse guy that occasionally can hit the long ball. Kahnle is really good. He pitched an inning earlier this year at the stadium and struck the side out on 9 or 10 pitches. The Yanks (Cashman) get it. I think Yankee fans should have enough faith in their FO that they aren't overpaying,etc...On the other hand, as a NYM fan, you sit there and wonder what Alderson is thinking. We need to get into the game soon...real soon.
Mets got bit with injury bug hard...can't really judge anything with that team this year. You have 3 Solid starters in DeGrom, Matz and Thor, iffy on Wheeler. Harvey lost it.
Never understood the Murphy trade. Guy had arguably the greatest post-season I've ever seen, and you trade him that year. I'm not trying to get at this but....it's the Mets.
Nice post turd.
remind me again who the Mets traded Murphy for?
Wasn't a trade, my mistake. Mets gave him a one-qualifying for 15 mil. Washington gave him a better offer, so Mets got a first round compensory pick. Still, all everyone talked about was how the new hitting coach fixed his swing at the end of the regular season, and it's showing now. Last year he hit .347, this year .344.
I think Darvish is a good fit. Do you guys think a package centered around Mateo is enough and if so, would you consider it? I think we have a championship caliber lineup, bullpen and we are really missing a top of the rotation starter. If Texas starts to fall a little here, they will sell and Darvish is only a rental.
I definitely think Frazier is a long time MLB player, my skepticism is that he will a very good one. As I said, I hope you guys can laugh in my face about what an idiot i am when Frazier is a star.
Are you talking about Clint or Todd?
If it's Todd then..
He is a lifetime 247 hitter. He is hitting 207 this year. How is that good??? He is NOT a good hitter. People fall for his power. That's it. He better not get a big contract from us next year. He should be 1 and done.
Todd is an imperfect but solid hitter. Low BA, but good OBP differential and big SLG. On his worst day, he should be about a 50 point OPS improvement over Headley.
He is unlikely to get any new contract from NYY. If he does, it will be a one year deal at a very manageable number to play a platoon role. More likely that they don't sign him, IMO.
Todd is an imperfect but solid hitter. Low BA, but good OBP differential and big SLG. On his worst day, he should be about a 50 point OPS improvement over Headley.
He is unlikely to get any new contract from NYY. If he does, it will be a one year deal at a very manageable number to play a platoon role. More likely that they don't sign him, IMO.
As much as I dislike him, I think there is a very good chance Todd Frazier resigns with the Yanks. He's a lifelong Yankee fan, is supposedly a great clubhouse guy and is at least a decent right handed bat that can play 3rd and 1st. And Holliday is likely gone so I can absolutely see Frazier filling that veteran role beyond this year.
I wouldn't pull my hair out about it as long as Headley is moved and they only sign him for a year.
Though at this point, they need a lefty bat significantly more than righty. How times have changed.
The thing that worries me is he'd best suited to a bench power bat / platoon-against-lefties guy. But he's exactly the type of guy that Girardi will get attached to and trot out there 8 games out of 10.
A good buddy of mine is a season ticket holder for the Reds. He says Fraziers biggest strength is hitting the ball the other way. Cincinnati has a short right field just like YS and he says that's how Frazier had so much success in Cincy. Chicago is a much bigger right field. So maybe, just maybe...
Giving up any prospects, I have been clear about that. But Frazier is getting an unfair rap on this thread by some. He is hitting the ball hard at close to the same rate he always has, so he is having one of those unlucky seasons, I would not be surprised t all if this trade sparks his return to prominence, this is a class act guy, and someone to cheer for, let's not get stupid here. He was not great last season, but still hit 41 bombs. I think Todd can easily be a .250 hitter with 30-35 homers for the Yanks, and that is not a bad player when you consider he has a good glove. So take it easy on knocking Frazier before you make yourself out to be an idiot. he is going to help a lot more then what people think.
People are fooling themselves if they think he's replacing Headley
A good buddy of mine is a season ticket holder for the Reds. He says Fraziers biggest strength is hitting the ball the other way. Cincinnati has a short right field just like YS and he says that's how Frazier had so much success in Cincy. Chicago is a much bigger right field. So maybe, just maybe...
Trying to sell myself on this!
Oh its real. Go check out his splits. He's been a better road hitter both seasons he's been on the White Sox and a better home hitter when he played in Cinci. It's not just this season.
Frazier has been so up and down. His June was great the rest of the year, lousy. DRob is a good return addition and if Kahnle is not a half season mirage, he could be the best asset we get in this deal.
Feel free to not like the deal (for it isn't a no-brainer by any stretch), but if that's your angle, you're either being disingenuous or you just don't get it.
Well, at least it's not a Buhner for Phelps deal.
Time will tell if this trade works out. There's high risk in every trade in every sport. If the Yanks get in the playoffs and get hot and win it all - Cashman will seem like a genius. If they continue to struggle like they have the last month, Cash will be looking for a job and we will hear fans bitching and moaning about this deal for the next decade.
It also rankles me that they didn't want to pay Robertson $12 million per to be their closer, but now trade for him so they can pay him $12 million to set up. Don't get me wrong, I've always been a fan of Robertson, but it just seems like a silly way to operate.
Not re-signing Robertson netted them an extra first round pick and freed them up to get Andrew Miller though. And we all know the package that Miller brought back
Feel free to not like the deal (for it isn't a no-brainer by any stretch), but if that's your angle, you're either being disingenuous or you just don't get it.
It was more like a Clint Frazier for Rutherford trade as I said, because if we kept Miller we don't make this trade.
You've found Frazier to be unimpressive so far in the big leagues? Interesting.
Cashman isn't going anywhere because if he was held accountable for the amount of resources he has versus what he has produced this century, he would have been fired long ago.
Quote:
Everyone raves about Frazier, I find him and his swing to be unimpressive. I think someone said it before, simply because Sanchez and Judge have done well, that doesn't mean all our prospects are not tradeable. Rutherford trade is a direct result of making one trade too many last year. we ended up with a worse reliever and now Frazier needs to be better than Rutherford over their career or these two trades will be awful.
You've found Frazier to be unimpressive so far in the big leagues? Interesting.
Yes.
OPS over 1.000 (without taking his walks yet) going into last night's game where he hit almost everything hard. Turned around a 99 mph fastball up for a walk off home run against one of the best closers in the NL a week and a half ago. Shown great baserunning instincts.
His swing is slightly unorthodox, though he's mentioned already making some adjustments. His talent is evident and he's already contributed significantly.
Your logic on this deal is quite warped
It's simple logic, really. Frazier is going to be a MLB ballplayer, and I pray I am wrong, but he doesn't scream future all-star to me. Now, to be fair, I have no idea how Rutherford will turn out either, my point is the way to judge this trade in some ways is how the Clint Frazier and Blake Rutherford ultimately pan out. There is a concept of cause and effect, no?
OPS over 1.000 (without taking his walks yet) going into last night's game where he hit almost everything hard. Turned around a 99 mph fastball up for a walk off home run against one of the best closers in the NL a week and a half ago. Shown great baserunning instincts.
His swing is slightly unorthodox, though he's mentioned already making some adjustments. His talent is evident and he's already contributed significantly.
Your logic on this deal is quite warped
This is correct. Essex has been very vocal about his disdain for the Miller trade since it happened. Frazier has no chance with him. He's already made his mind up on him. Long before he ever seen him play.
Oh by the way, Sheffield looks very good too and will hopefully be a key cog in the rotation within the next couple of years. But I'm sure he doesn't impress Essex either.
And before I brought Todd Frazier here, I would have let Andujar play and let Headley sit, be a bcakup 1b/3b.
Oh, Betances has been consistent. He consistently comes in the game in the 8th, gets a strike out, but then somehow always manages to load the bases with walks and hits. Then he either pitches out of it or loses the game for us. And that unfortunately, is all too consistent. It seems he only concentrates on the hitters once he's loaded the bases. Drives me up a wall!
Quote:
they very well still might have made this trade. Even if they had Miller instead of Chapman.
Oh, Betances has been consistent. He consistently comes in the game in the 8th, gets a strike out, but then somehow always manages to load the bases with walks and hits. Then he either pitches out of it or loses the game for us. And that unfortunately, is all too consistent. It seems he only concentrates on the hitters once he's loaded the bases. Drives me up a wall!
Fuuny, sounds just like Robertson. :-)
I assume you mean Clint, not Todd. We're going to have to get used to putting a "C" or a "T" in front of the name Frazier when we type from now on.
And I agree with you since I assume you mean Clint. He's getting a feel for major league pitching and playing in front of huge crowds and millions at home watching the game on TV. It's an adjustment. But he is very talented and will figure it all out. It happens with almost all rookies when they get called up for the first time. Choi is a bit of an aberration that probably won't last.
Feel free to not like the deal (for it isn't a no-brainer by any stretch), but if that's your angle, you're either being disingenuous or you just don't get it.
Also forgetting that Clarkin and Polo were Rule 5 eligible after season is mind numbing. They basically dealt Rutherford and 2 kids that were possibly gone in Rule 5 for essentially the 2 best bullpen arms available (based upon k/9) and a 3B with power. Also look up frazier's stats away from Chicago. Theyre not bad.
Robertson under contract thru next year, Kahnle under control until 202!! Add in Clippard being gone and im doing cartwheels.
Finally - im telling you theyre higher on Florial than Rutherford.
Link - ( New Window )
Yanks need to move Gardner or Ellsbury if hicks comes back and both have to go before next season.
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In comment 13532023 brunswick said:
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Kinda jealous what the Yanks are doing. Not a fan of Frazier but he is a good clubhouse guy that occasionally can hit the long ball. Kahnle is really good. He pitched an inning earlier this year at the stadium and struck the side out on 9 or 10 pitches. The Yanks (Cashman) get it. I think Yankee fans should have enough faith in their FO that they aren't overpaying,etc...On the other hand, as a NYM fan, you sit there and wonder what Alderson is thinking. We need to get into the game soon...real soon.
Mets got bit with injury bug hard...can't really judge anything with that team this year. You have 3 Solid starters in DeGrom, Matz and Thor, iffy on Wheeler. Harvey lost it.
Never understood the Murphy trade. Guy had arguably the greatest post-season I've ever seen, and you trade him that year. I'm not trying to get at this but....it's the Mets.
Nice post turd.
remind me again who the Mets traded Murphy for?
Wasn't a trade, my mistake. Mets gave him a one-qualifying for 15 mil. Washington gave him a better offer, so Mets got a first round compensory pick. Still, all everyone talked about was how the new hitting coach fixed his swing at the end of the regular season, and it's showing now. Last year he hit .347, this year .344.
Dude is having a Bautista-like late bloom.
Thoughts on the big trade - ( New Window )
Yes, Clint. I'll call him Ginger from now on, because I loathe "Red Thunder."
Why would it take him a week to report?
Are you talking about Clint or Todd?
If it's Todd then..
He is a lifetime 247 hitter. He is hitting 207 this year. How is that good??? He is NOT a good hitter. People fall for his power. That's it. He better not get a big contract from us next year. He should be 1 and done.
He is unlikely to get any new contract from NYY. If he does, it will be a one year deal at a very manageable number to play a platoon role. More likely that they don't sign him, IMO.
Come on Shock! We don't wear pinstripes on the road! lol
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You were referring to his first home game?
Come on Shock! We don't wear pinstripes on the road! lol
Haha, that's what clued me in that you meant first home game!
He is unlikely to get any new contract from NYY. If he does, it will be a one year deal at a very manageable number to play a platoon role. More likely that they don't sign him, IMO.
As much as I dislike him, I think there is a very good chance Todd Frazier resigns with the Yanks. He's a lifelong Yankee fan, is supposedly a great clubhouse guy and is at least a decent right handed bat that can play 3rd and 1st. And Holliday is likely gone so I can absolutely see Frazier filling that veteran role beyond this year.
Though at this point, they need a lefty bat significantly more than righty. How times have changed.
The thing that worries me is he'd best suited to a bench power bat / platoon-against-lefties guy. But he's exactly the type of guy that Girardi will get attached to and trot out there 8 games out of 10.
Link - ( New Window )
Trying to sell myself on this!
Trying to sell myself on this!
Oh its real. Go check out his splits. He's been a better road hitter both seasons he's been on the White Sox and a better home hitter when he played in Cinci. It's not just this season.
2016, 2017(ChiSox)-much better road hitter
There's a uniform No. 77 hanging in Clint Frazier's locker. Guess David Robertson got his old No. 30 back. #Yankees
Yep, I agree - I'm guessing Headley 3B / Frazier 1B vs lefties, and Frazier / Cooper vs righties for the rest of this season.
My comment about moving Headley was off-season hypothetical about appetite to keep Frazier beyond this year.
That is a good summary. I'm fine with this trade for the reasons in there.