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| The Mets are willing to include cash in trades to secure better prospects, according to sources with knowledge of the teams thinking. Outfielder Jay Bruce, for example, currently is owed more than $5 million for the rest of the season a significant payroll bump for even a high-revenue club. Infielder Asdrubal Cabrera, meanwhile, has a $2 million buyout on his $8.5 million club option. The Mets likely would pick that up, knowing they would pay it anyway. |
Hopefully get some good young bullpen arms
What about Duda to Seattle?
"Peter GammonsVerified account @pgammo 2h2 hours ago
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Mets will give Red Spx Astrubal Cabera. SH, 3B-2B, 9 HR, hits LHP"
What about Duda to Seattle?
Seattle and Duda has been floated for a while. capone says we turned down a good offer for him 2 weeks ago. Damn.
The rest of these veterans I'd move out here for very little.
The rest of these veterans I'd move out here for very little.
Given the JD Martinez return I'm prepared to be disappointed. Still hope they move them for whatever they can get.
come on man, what they're doing to Rosario is borderline malpractice.
Super 2 is been a non-factor for weeks, and they're out of the race so there will be no pressure, and he's in LV, a severe hitters park in a hitters league.
only reasons I can think of to keep him in the minors is the Cabrera story which I find dubious, to keep his AB's down so he can be rookie of the year in 2018 (like the Braves did with Swanson this year - how'd that work out so far?)
The last excuse Sandy gave was "the players are playing well" (meaning Cabrera and Reyes), so you there's no reason to bring him up.
I'm sure they understand that Rosario, Smith and any days that deGrom or Thor pitch (when he comes back) will be the only days anyone will bother coming to see this team throughout the year.
Not saying I agree with it but it is probably a business decision at this point.
Why? He's a pending FA.
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red sox scouted 3 mets -- flores as well as asdrubal and (tj) rivera -- as 3b alternatives. lowrie, harrison, solarte also seen as in mix
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red sox scouted 3 mets -- flores as well as asdrubal and (tj) rivera -- as 3b alternatives. lowrie, harrison, solarte also seen as in mix
Cabrera and Reed for Groome.
I even wonder if the Mets will trade him.
Also whos the 3b of the future here Wilmer Flores or Gavin Cecchini?
I even wonder if the Mets will trade him.
Also whos the 3b of the future here Wilmer Flores or Gavin Cecchini?
The Mets reportedly will hold on to Blevins. I don't like it but that's the word.
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Jon HeymanVerified account @JonHeyman 2h2 hours ago
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red sox scouted 3 mets -- flores as well as asdrubal and (tj) rivera -- as 3b alternatives. lowrie, harrison, solarte also seen as in mix
Cabrera and Reed for Groome.
Without thinking twice.
I even wonder if the Mets will trade him.
Also whos the 3b of the future here Wilmer Flores or Gavin Cecchini?
Hopefully we get a 3b prospect back in trade. Cecchini has been disappointing
he's replaceable.
He wasn't even re-signed until a couple weeks before spring training, that's how much interest there was in him.
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In comment 13532153 DanMetroMan said:
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Jon HeymanVerified account @JonHeyman 2h2 hours ago
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red sox scouted 3 mets -- flores as well as asdrubal and (tj) rivera -- as 3b alternatives. lowrie, harrison, solarte also seen as in mix
Cabrera and Reed for Groome.
Without thinking twice.
Groome is a better prospect than Rutherford, so if the Sox gave up DRob, Kahnle and Frazier, Groome is going to take much more than Cabrera and Reed, I would think.
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In comment 13532157 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 13532153 DanMetroMan said:
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Jon HeymanVerified account @JonHeyman 2h2 hours ago
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red sox scouted 3 mets -- flores as well as asdrubal and (tj) rivera -- as 3b alternatives. lowrie, harrison, solarte also seen as in mix
Cabrera and Reed for Groome.
Without thinking twice.
Groome is a better prospect than Rutherford, so if the Sox gave up DRob, Kahnle and Frazier, Groome is going to take much more than Cabrera and Reed, I would think.
My original proposal was Duda and Reed for Groome which is probably close to what CHW gave the Yankees. And Groome has off-field issues and an injury history, and Duda is better than Frazier, though Reed worse than Robertson, but stil good.
So I'd do Duda and Reed for Groome, but I guess the Sox like Moreland at 1B.
I know you guys love Warthen but he certainly hasn't helped Matz...Robles has regressed as has Smoker.
His sliders might have destroyed their arms
I know you guys love Warthen but he certainly hasn't helped Matz...Robles has regressed as has Smoker.
Smoker is 28 and although he has good stuff he hasn't developed as they expected. Let him compete for a spot next year but the Mets would be foolish to go into next season depending on him to be an important piece of the pen.
Did I miss something?
As I posted above they waited until 2 weeks before spring training started to even sign him.
with some exceptions as you get to the later-inning roles, I believe, like a lot of people do, that relievers are fungible.
and often not very reliable from a consistency standpoint year to year.
If someone came asking and I were Sandy, Blevins would be gone if the price was reasonable.
Law- Groome #20, Rutherford not in top 50
BP- Groome #43, Rutherford not in top 50
It really is interesting to see such disparity between various outlets
Did I miss something?
As I posted above they waited until 2 weeks before spring training started to even sign him.
with some exceptions as you get to the later-inning roles, I believe, like a lot of people do, that relievers are fungible.
and often not very reliable from a consistency standpoint year to year.
If someone came asking and I were Sandy, Blevins would be gone if the price was reasonable.
PJ reportedly they aren't willing to trade Blevins aka "not available".
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I wouldn't think twice because that's a great gamble however worth noting , BA just ranked Groome #87, Rutherford #36
Law- Groome #20, Rutherford not in top 50
BP- Groome #43, Rutherford not in top 50
It really is interesting to see such disparity between various outlets
BA's list was updated on July 7. Groome did NOT make Law's mid-season top 50 from 6 days ago. So his stock is presumably down.
I'm expecting the same unfortunately. Really unbelievable what Cashman was able to accomplish last year. Not to mention signing Chapman a few months later anyway.
Sometimes the prospects acquired aren't too sexy at the time of acquisition but they could turn out to be decent gets. I am sure you remember the Kelly Johnson and Juan Uribe for John Gant and Rob Whalen. Gant developed nicely and was the centerpiece of the deal for Jaime Garcia and Whalen was part of the package for C Alex Jackson. The second trade of Kelly Johnson brought back AKeel Morris who has been excellent in AAA and has now cemented a spot in the Braves pen. I wasn't happy with either return at the time but now they turned out great.
Yes he has been but he was excellent for the Braves in AA and AAA and the Mariners believed he could be a solid #4 or #5 pitcher.
10th round pick out of high school.
goes on to tear up the lower minors with video game like numbers (other than the walks) and later switched to the bullpen and continued his dominance.
really hit the radar in A ball as a dominant 21 year old reliever/closer.
and then for some strange reason while dominating in A+ ball the Mets called him up for bullpen depth. From A+ to the majors.
he got shelled in his only appearance, really shelled.
they sent him down to AA afterwards and he was decent, the next year he struggled a little (not awful, but not the same dominance he had before) in AA then he was dealt for KJ.
I'm still not sure I understand how that all happened. I get there are 40-man crunches with who you can bring up, part of it probably had to do with Vegas being 6+ hour flight away and Bing closer to TOR (where he made his debut), but WTF?
good fastball, good changeup, and they dump him for a 37-year old journeyman? head-scratcher.
10th round pick out of high school.
goes on to tear up the lower minors with video game like numbers (other than the walks) and later switched to the bullpen and continued his dominance.
really hit the radar in A ball as a dominant 21 year old reliever/closer.
and then for some strange reason while dominating in A+ ball the Mets called him up for bullpen depth. From A+ to the majors.
he got shelled in his only appearance, really shelled.
they sent him down to AA afterwards and he was decent, the next year he struggled a little (not awful, but not the same dominance he had before) in AA then he was dealt for KJ.
I'm still not sure I understand how that all happened. I get there are 40-man crunches with who you can bring up, part of it probably had to do with Vegas being 6+ hour flight away and Bing closer to TOR (where he made his debut), but WTF?
good fastball, good changeup, and they dump him for a 37-year old journeyman? head-scratcher.
PJ, it was a very odd season for Morris this year too. The Braves have promoted several lesser options like Sam Freeman, Chaz Roe(traded), Jason Motte, Eric O'Flaherty's corpse, Rex Brothers, and Jason Hursh over Morris despite Morris pitching great in AAA.
It's a pipe dream but I wonder what Cleveland would ask for in exchange for C Francisco Mejia.
The Mets might just be trying to drive up Blevins' return by claiming he is no available. As for Salas there is no way any team is giving up anything of value for him.
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Yandy Diaz and Yu-Cheng Chang would be 2 guys I'd ask Cleveland about
It's a pipe dream but I wonder what Cleveland would ask for in exchange for C Francisco Mejia.
The absolute moon. He's a top 10 prospect in the game. I think he'd be close to untouchable for any realistic price.
I don't think he'd get a ton back in a trade to begin with, certainly not on his own, but in a package I'd include him in a heartbeat.
Not only did he turn into a pumpkin, he turned into a rotten, smashed pile of pumpkin sauce. He SUCKS. Edgin sucks. Ramirez sucks. Robles sucks. This is why no one should ever feel comfortable with a bullpen going into a new season. They're volatile and if I were a GM, I would ALWAYS be trying to stockpile good relievers.
I don't think he'd get a ton back in a trade to begin with, certainly not on his own, but in a package I'd include him in a heartbeat.
No one is untouchable except conforto and syndergaard
I trust Shecky when he says the 40-man roster is never an reason to trade someone.
the whole progression with Morris was bizarre from the call up to the trade and the fact they traded him for Kelly Johnson who likely had no other suitors was equally puzzling.
the Mets basically traded Morris, Whalen, and Gant for Kelly Johnson and Juan Uribe. No stars in the trade (yet), but as Jay showed Whalen and Gant were flipped for other pieces or parts of packages flipped.
Sandy doesn't lose many trades, he lost that one.
Familia
Reed
Blevins
Robles
Salas
Sewald
Lugo
So what happened? Well. Injuries in the rotation robbed of us an excellent long man(Lugo was being heavily considered in the spring) we lost a top 5 closer that created a domino effect pushing everyone up a spot, Salas absolutely sucked, and Robles (still a top 50 reliever last year) gave us nothing.
A 1.2+ WHIP isn't what I want to see from a reliever I am relying on in leverage situations. The ERA isn't pretty but the FIP says it's not entirely accurate.
Sewald looks like he'll be a BP piece moving forward but I don't think he'll ever be an 8th or 9th inning guy - probably a valuable MRP. Which is fine.
A 1.2+ WHIP isn't what I want to see from a reliever I am relying on in leverage situations. The ERA isn't pretty but the FIP says it's not entirely accurate.
Sewald looks like he'll be a BP piece moving forward but I don't think he'll ever be an 8th or 9th inning guy - probably a valuable MRP. Which is fine.
Sewald basically got bombed twice. He's been much better of late. I agree he's not a closer but he should absolutely be a solid middle relief guy going forward and isn't that what we were talking about adding? A "Blanton type"?
As good as Bruce has been this year, he's still projected to barely be worth what the qualifying offer will cost in 2018. He's also having a "career year" of sorts, and certainly his first "good" year since 2013. I'd love to get any sort of prospect that we can for him.
The others would have cost more though in $$ or trades.
As it turned out the bullpen (my #2 concern coming in to the season - and they've been awful for a variety of reasons many already highlighted) was made irrelevant by the starting pitching injuries and poor performance.
The Mets are converting OF/IF prospect Jeff Diehl to pitcher full time. He made two appearances earlier this season and hit mid-90s.
Matz (NEVER healthy), Wheeler (at that point had missed 2 seasons), David Wright (nuff said) Jose Reyes (oft-injured, 34, long period of crappiness before coming back, fine as a total bench piece, not so much as the primary Wright insurance), Juan Lagares (always hurt), TDA (always hurt, not particularly good), Fernando Salas (solid run with the Mets second half last year, got him for free, was available as a FA in Feb), Seth Lugo (limited MLB success, not a knock just not a proven MLB talent at the time), Gsellman (similar though a pass on him as he was very, very good for a stretch), Robles (prone to stretches of being awful), Josh Edgin (oft injured, not particularly good in years), Matt Harvey...
Long story short instead of supplementing what they have the Mets like to "hope for the best" with these things. They acknowledged the need to improve the bullpen (tried for Brach) and then settled for a garbage back up option in Salas. They signed the fewest minor league FA's in baseball this past off-season (which left AA/AAA barren as well). They sit out waivers and Rule V. It's not always about money, it's about status quo and "good enough".
I just mean in addition to Sewald the Mets should have absolutely been in on guys like Holland as FA and some of the trade guys like Thornburg and it's not second guessing, Thornburg had TOS and missed the season. Didn't throw a pitch for the Red Sox. But my point is the approach.
It's overshadowed b/c of the other issues but I felt like the bullpen was an Achilles heel (if the starting pitching held up). We debated this all off-season and it's moot now.
Pitching is another story but we had the number one staff in baseball last year with a bunch of injuries last year too. We virtually went from first to last. Can you really fault Sandy for bringing back the number one staff top to bottom? Even if it was middle of the pack this year we are likely fighting for the wild card right now.
I think people always underestimate what losses to star players can do to a team. We had the head of the snake chopped off the rotation and the pen. Last year even the Dodgers meandered around .500 until Kershaw returned. It's just the reality of the game.
All due respect but Salas is 33 in May, Edgin 31 in December so that's not really a fair argument. They didn't exactly have a ton of young BP arms they rolled with and were wrong on.
Pitching is another story but we had the number one staff in baseball last year with a bunch of injuries last year too. We virtually went from first to last. Can you really fault Sandy for bringing back the number one staff top to bottom? Even if it was middle of the pack this year we are likely fighting for the wild card right now.
I think people always underestimate what losses to star players can do to a team. We had the head of the snake chopped off the rotation and the pen. Last year even the Dodgers meandered around .500 until Kershaw returned. It's just the reality of the game.
They could have had a better opportunity to tread water. This isn't revisionist either. People bitched about Ynoa and commented on Adam Wilk not being in the running for the pen because he was "needed" in case they needed SP. They even if the Mets were "more" healthy anyone with a brain saw SP depth being a real concern with Wheeler, Harvey, Matz all being injury concerns and very little behind them. Boscan? Wilk? Pill? Very strange inactive off-season and for some reason Sandy hates waivers.
Pitching is another story but we had the number one staff in baseball last year with a bunch of injuries last year too. We virtually went from first to last. Can you really fault Sandy for bringing back the number one staff top to bottom? Even if it was middle of the pack this year we are likely fighting for the wild card right now.
I think people always underestimate what losses to star players can do to a team. We had the head of the snake chopped off the rotation and the pen. Last year even the Dodgers meandered around .500 until Kershaw returned. It's just the reality of the game.
Other than defense, the lineup has been fine even through the injuries they've had, and if the starting pitching remained even close to intact I wasn't that concerned with the lineup.
I didn't expect league worst defensive infield but I did expect an OF shit show (until Conforto won a consistent role b/c I think he's more maligned defensively than he should be).
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Solid vet filler guys are usually worth about a half a win in a season. Something like that is what I expected from Salas if everything went right. Sewald' s on pace to clear a full win which would put him in the "top 50" range. His K/9 and BB/9 are excellent and like Arc already mentioned, his FIP screams he's better than his ERA. Obviously, it all counts, but outside of two performances Sewald has been excellent. Even with those appearances he's been pretty damn good for a rookie.
I just mean in addition to Sewald the Mets should have absolutely been in on guys like Holland as FA and some of the trade guys like Thornburg and it's not second guessing, Thornburg had TOS and missed the season. Didn't throw a pitch for the Red Sox. But my point is the approach.
It's overshadowed b/c of the other issues but I felt like the bullpen was an Achilles heel (if the starting pitching held up). We debated this all off-season and it's moot now.
The bottom line is they are reactive whereas a team like Boston is pro-active. Someone getting hurt and a gaping hole is when they decide they "need" to do something vs. adding depth for a rainy day and FAR too willing to hold onto crap for far too long.
The real issue has been 3B and SS. Cabrera is the biggest culprit. His regression was really bad this year and totally screwed us. Either way, you can't be too upset because Reyes could fill in and Rosario is on the cusp. Should get much better shortly.
The real issue has been 3B and SS. Cabrera is the biggest culprit. His regression was really bad this year and totally screwed us. Either way, you can't be too upset because Reyes could fill in and Rosario is on the cusp. Should get much better shortly.
Agree, the OF hasn't been bad, partly IMO because of Conforto, but the more I watch Cespedes in the OF he reminds me of a lesser hitting Manny Ramirez. He's quirky from a personality standpoint, but I'm not saying he's got the "manny being manny" vibe, but defensively he makes some awful reads and seemingly lazy plays.
I agree.
The fact that Gsellmen and Harvey stunk, along with Thor Matz and Lugo missing half of the season really hurt our bullpen depth too. We would've presumably had some extra depth with a healthier rotation.
It's really not clear where we stand asset wise right now because just about all of our pitchers are huge question marks. In a perfect world, Thor comes back and picks up where he left off. Gsellmen comes back and shows some of his 2016 form. Harvey comes back and looks good after having another round at rehab. Matz finds groove again. Familia comes back without diminished stuff. All of this stuff will affect the 2018 team a lot more than whatever marginal prospects we get in the next two weeks.
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Has actually been good defensively. Positive DRS and UZR. Duda has been fine at first.
The real issue has been 3B and SS. Cabrera is the biggest culprit. His regression was really bad this year and totally screwed us. Either way, you can't be too upset because Reyes could fill in and Rosario is on the cusp. Should get much better shortly.
Agree, the OF hasn't been bad, partly IMO because of Conforto, but the more I watch Cespedes in the OF he reminds me of a lesser hitting Manny Ramirez. He's quirky from a personality standpoint, but I'm not saying he's got the "manny being manny" vibe, but defensively he makes some awful reads and seemingly lazy plays.
I am prettty pissed off at Cespedes this year actually. You overlook those lazy plays in the OF when your hitting a wRC+ of 150. Not so much when you suck.
The fact that Gsellmen and Harvey stunk, along with Thor Matz and Lugo missing half of the season really hurt our bullpen depth too. We would've presumably had some extra depth with a healthier rotation.
It's really not clear where we stand asset wise right now because just about all of our pitchers are huge question marks. In a perfect world, Thor comes back and picks up where he left off. Gsellmen comes back and shows some of his 2016 form. Harvey comes back and looks good after having another round at rehab. Matz finds groove again. Familia comes back without diminished stuff. All of this stuff will affect the 2018 team a lot more than whatever marginal prospects we get in the next two weeks.
Holland got less money than Blevins I believe.
The fact that Gsellmen and Harvey stunk, along with Thor Matz and Lugo missing half of the season really hurt our bullpen depth too. We would've presumably had some extra depth with a healthier rotation.
It's really not clear where we stand asset wise right now because just about all of our pitchers are huge question marks. In a perfect world, Thor comes back and picks up where he left off. Gsellmen comes back and shows some of his 2016 form. Harvey comes back and looks good after having another round at rehab. Matz finds groove again. Familia comes back without diminished stuff. All of this stuff will affect the 2018 team a lot more than whatever marginal prospects we get in the next two weeks.
Joe Smith, Uehera, Storen... the point is they almost always "hope for the best" vs. gambling and being wrong. They gambled on multiple injury prone players suddenly being healthy. Wright/Matz/Harvey/Wheeler being the most egregious.
The Mets considering Blevins untouchable right now makes sense to me, not because Blevins is a remarkable player but because he is that much better than what they've been able to find for similar money.
The front office hasn't been the most proactive group. They havn't made too many serious blunders either and most moves are generally competent but I don't really get the sense that they have a real vision for the team.
I would love to see it happen, but I cannot believe the Mets were counting on any contribution from Wright this year or in the future.
I would love to see it happen, but I cannot believe the Mets were counting on any contribution from Wright this year or in the future.
They sure seemed to imply publicly that David Wright would be the starting 3b and hoped he would play about 100 games. I don't remember any indication otherwise. Reyes was supposed to serve as insurance not be the starting 3b.
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I kind of feel like they know he's not going to play again.
I would love to see it happen, but I cannot believe the Mets were counting on any contribution from Wright this year or in the future.
They sure seemed to imply publicly that David Wright would be the starting 3b and hoped he would play about 100 games. I don't remember any indication otherwise. Reyes was supposed to serve as insurance not be the starting 3b.
Well I didn't buy that did you?
They probably had to have that approach for the insurance or something, but I'd be shocked if internally they expected Wright to hit the field this year, let alone play 100 games.
Only Familia, Blevins, and Sewald should be locks. You can probably get away with a long man too so that's 4. Need 3 more.
Wright, TDA, Matz, Wheeler, Harvey, Reyes, Duda, Ces, Lagares, Walker (coming off back surgery). They played with fire and got burnt. This wasn't 2-3 guys, this was 1/3 of the team and most of the core.
Wright, TDA, Matz, Wheeler, Harvey, Reyes, Duda, Ces, Lagares, Walker (coming off back surgery). They played with fire and got burnt. This wasn't 2-3 guys, this was 1/3 of the team and most of the core.
I think they were planning on the insurance being Walker, Reyes, Flores, and Rivera.
Which should have been ok, but Walker obviously was injured, Flores isn't comfortable at 3B, Rivera is a butcher in the field in general and Reyes turned 45 before our eyes.
Cabrera should have also been a consideration but he's a bitch.
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didn't buy it but Jose Reyes, all of 34 years old and oft-injured himself was the insurance. Reyes did look good over 60 games last season but he was the primary insurance if Wright didn't hold up? They relied on far too many guys to be healthy, guys who never/rarely have been.
Wright, TDA, Matz, Wheeler, Harvey, Reyes, Duda, Ces, Lagares, Walker (coming off back surgery). They played with fire and got burnt. This wasn't 2-3 guys, this was 1/3 of the team and most of the core.
I think they were planning on the insurance being Walker, Reyes, Flores, and Rivera.
Which should have been ok, but Walker obviously was injured, Flores isn't comfortable at 3B, Rivera is a butcher in the field in general and Reyes turned 45 before our eyes.
Cabrera should have also been a consideration but he's a bitch.
And the insurance for Wheeler/Matz/Harvey were 2 unproven guys (though admittedly I believed in Gsellman) with NOTHING in AAA should Lugo/Gsellman falter or other injuries and the insurance in the BP was literally nobody.
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In comment 13532454 DanMetroMan said:
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didn't buy it but Jose Reyes, all of 34 years old and oft-injured himself was the insurance. Reyes did look good over 60 games last season but he was the primary insurance if Wright didn't hold up? They relied on far too many guys to be healthy, guys who never/rarely have been.
Wright, TDA, Matz, Wheeler, Harvey, Reyes, Duda, Ces, Lagares, Walker (coming off back surgery). They played with fire and got burnt. This wasn't 2-3 guys, this was 1/3 of the team and most of the core.
I think they were planning on the insurance being Walker, Reyes, Flores, and Rivera.
Which should have been ok, but Walker obviously was injured, Flores isn't comfortable at 3B, Rivera is a butcher in the field in general and Reyes turned 45 before our eyes.
Cabrera should have also been a consideration but he's a bitch.
And the insurance for Wheeler/Matz/Harvey were 2 unproven guys (though admittedly I believed in Gsellman) with NOTHING in AAA should Lugo/Gsellman falter or other injuries and the insurance in the BP was literally nobody.
Agree, and I'd say c'est la vie, shit happens, but we were almost unanimous this off-season among the BBI Mets fans the depth was risky.
Boscan, Wilk, Montero, Gilmartin, Tyler Pill... Yuckarooni
today keeps rolling with (so far) 5 IP, 3H 1ER, 3BB, 6K
on the season in AA he's got a 1.73 ERA, .68 WHIP (before today) in 41 IP, 43K's to 4 BB's.
today keeps rolling with (so far) 5 IP, 3H 1ER, 3BB, 6K
on the season in AA he's got a 1.73 ERA, .68 WHIP (before today) in 41 IP, 43K's to 4 BB's.
Yup one of the few bright spots. Merandy Gonzalez, a few others. Overall a borderline disaster but Flexen should be in the mix next season. He too is oft-injured however.
Well said, and a big point often overlooked. This has showed signs of shaping up for a while now, and has come crashing down. Unfortunately, this is much harder to fix than the big club is.
And you generally need 8-10 SP's to get through a season even in the best of years. Wheeler was going to throw 185+ quality innings? Gsellman was? Lugo was? Matz was? The depth was laughable from day 1, this isn't some revisionist BS. EVERYONE was noting the lack of upper minors depth.
Last year, starting pitching was a problem for the 51s, who posted a collective 5.32 ERA. Things are not looking like they will be all that much more different for the 2017 51s, as a starting rotation of Ricky Knapp, Adam Wilk, Donovan Hand, and Sean Gilmartin does not appear poised to be a dominant collection of pitchers.
AA-
The Pitchers
Tyler Pill, who will be starting Opening Day, and Irish left-hander P.J. Conlon will headline the inaugural Rumble Pony rotation. Joining them will be Chris Flexen, when he returns from the disabled list. Mickey Jannis, Casey Delgado, Corey Oswalt, and Scarlyn Reyes will compete for starts, with more than one of those pitchers likely being transitioned into the bullpen over the course of the season.
So this wasn't some unforeseen situation. There was NOTHING there.
I will continue to believe that Thor was a massive blow that we simply weren't going to recover from regardless.
They signed the fewest minor league FA of any team in baseball this past off-season. There was no attempt at even trying to find depth. Didn't claim anyone on waivers. 2015 Mets 10 SP made starts, 2016 12 did. Considering Harvey/Matz/Wheeler were 3 of their SP and unproven Gsellman/Lugo were 2 others this was very silly + Montero coming off a season where he posted a 7.20 era.
Justin Dunn
Merandy Gonzalez
Chris Flexen
David Peterson
Thomas Szpapucki
Marcos Molina
Anthony Kay
some are oft-injured, but there is some depth there and at least some should be ready by the time Harvey leaves in 2019. I wonder if they would accelerate Molina to a bullpen role, and maybe move Gsellman to the bullpen as well.
I wouldn't be shocked if we used our boatload of cash this off-season to go after either Ohani from Japan or Yu Darvish to bolster the rotation.
Imagine
deGrom
Syndergaard
Darvish
Matz
Harvey
Wheeler
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AAA was barren outside of Gsellman, Lugo, and Montero but we just graduated 5 guys over the last few years. I don't know wat the answer is to fixing that. Be in on waiver claims? Sign Coln and stash him in AAA?
They signed the fewest minor league FA of any team in baseball this past off-season. There was no attempt at even trying to find depth. Didn't claim anyone on waivers. 2015 Mets 10 SP made starts, 2016 12 did. Considering Harvey/Matz/Wheeler were 3 of their SP and unproven Gsellman/Lugo were 2 others this was very silly + Montero coming off a season where he posted a 7.20 era.
Isn't somebody like Gorzallany the minor league flier type? I know he sucks but aren't most guys like that you can sign ugly and your hoping for lightning in a bottle? Gilmartin had a string of success before. I just don't see a lot of room where you can go there.
1B Smith
2B Wilmer/TJ or Phillips
SS Rosario
3B Harrison
LF Cespedes
CF Cain
RF Conforto
C Lucroy
Yup. And I'm also fine with never extending or offering big pay days to any of our other starting pitches. They all throw hard and will be oft injured. Darvish can be our one big guy signed in the rotation. The rest can be put out to pasture when they are done being under control. I really don't care. DeGrom will be 32. Thor won't be a free agent for 5 more years. A lot will change.
I didn't say he was "legit depth". Legit depth are players you can count on. You usually are only going to get that through your system. Minor league free agent guys outside of every teams 40 man are usually ugly. There's always the option to trade for somebody though I guess.
But the real question is whether letting Murph go, giving Walker 17 m and ignoring the pen and starter depth, signing the likes of Salas, DeAza and Bastado--were these just individual errors in judgment or are they the product of an antiquated baseball philosophy?
Or to put it another way: will Sandy self-assess and adapt his approach or will he stubbornly try to win with what appears to be a 1990s philosophy?
Personally I think the Mets need younger blood so I would not resign either Terry or Sandy. The contracts of both are up so why not just get a fresh start?
really? he's a massive injury risk.
If your going to spend that type of money on a SP , Alex Cobb from TB is my choice
Dan, I assume you mean Josh Harrison
Is he a FA?
Yea, I think this might be true too.
But the real question is whether letting Murph go, giving Walker 17 m and ignoring the pen and starter depth, signing the likes of Salas, DeAza and Bastado--were these just individual errors in judgment or are they the product of an antiquated baseball philosophy?
Or to put it another way: will Sandy self-assess and adapt his approach or will he stubbornly try to win with what appears to be a 1990s philosophy?
Personally I think the Mets need younger blood so I would not resign either Terry or Sandy. The contracts of both are up so why not just get a fresh start?
I think the word awful is a little much...
Or were you one of those HO-HUM fans when he got Cesp at a 100 mill 4 year deal , resigned Blevins and with increased optimism picked up the option on Neil Walker ...
De La Rosa
Niese (I despise Niese just giving an example)
Gee
Edwin Jackson
Bud Norris
Guys with some level of MLB success in recent years not absolute garbage or guys who are 35 without any success in years. Knowing that you graduated/traded a bunch of arms shouldn't = "eh whatever lets just have trash at AAA/AA and not worry about it"
I think he anticipated the Wright thing but wanted to maintain the illusion that the captain will return but he gave himself 3 backups in Reyes Cabrera and Flores...
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hope they look into Harrison at 3b for next season
Dan, I assume you mean Josh Harrison
Is he a FA?
Yeah Josh Harrison, he's apparently available via trade as the Pirates look to get younger (he's 30 next season) with 2 team options in 2019 and 2020. He's my #1 3b target. Love the fact he can play multiple positions.
De La Rosa
Niese (I despise Niese just giving an example)
Gee
Edwin Jackson
Bud Norris
Guys with some level of MLB success in recent years not absolute garbage or guys who are 35 without any success in years. Knowing that you graduated/traded a bunch of arms shouldn't = "eh whatever lets just have trash at AAA/AA and not worry about it"
An Orioles fan friend of mine is insistent that Chris Tillman is a elite setup man / closer in waiting and just hasn't realized it yet. 10 mil 3 years would do it.
I mean anyone with a brain (not aimed at you ZGiants) can identify guys who do X well or have had some success in recent memory and add a few of them but Gorzallany and his "new" delivery at 35. You can still add them, just not in lieu of actual guys who may have a shot.
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Norris is actually doing a pretty nice job closing for LAA right now.
I mean anyone with a brain (not aimed at you ZGiants) can identify guys who do X well or have had some success in recent memory and add a few of them but Gorzallany and his "new" delivery at 35. You can still add them, just not in lieu of actual guys who may have a shot.
I agree
I think organizations should be more open-minded with pitchers and what their future roles are. I think sometimes orgs try to force certain guys to be starters or relievers and are too rigid in their approach.
A lot of excellent closers are guys who were not good SP's - and yet closers and even top-tier relievers in general have become so valuable.
Obviously I would never try to make Noah Syndergaard a closer but who knows, maybe guys like Gsellman or Wheeler would make better relievers down the road.
Absolutely.
Look at the Mets moves from 2010 to end of 2015: Thor, Wheeler, TDA, Blevins, Reed, Cespedes. A+moves
Then look after DePo left: Grade F.
It's night and day.
Marc CarigVerified account @MarcCarig 2m2 minutes ago
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Walker gearing up for rehab games this weekend.
You can count Smith and Rosario in, and other than that give me new leadership, a new manager and staff, and a revamped lineup and bullpen.
Minaya was GM for the Harvey, deGrom, Matz, Duda, Murphy
Niese, draft picks and more and added FA's like Beltran, Delgado, Pedro, Wagner, etc.
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It is obvious and not even debatable. If you don't see it, it's because you are looking the rose colored glasses of a fan.
But the real question is whether letting Murph go, giving Walker 17 m and ignoring the pen and starter depth, signing the likes of Salas, DeAza and Bastado--were these just individual errors in judgment or are they the product of an antiquated baseball philosophy?
Or to put it another way: will Sandy self-assess and adapt his approach or will he stubbornly try to win with what appears to be a 1990s philosophy?
Personally I think the Mets need younger blood so I would not resign either Terry or Sandy. The contracts of both are up so why not just get a fresh start?
I think the word awful is a little much...
Or were you one of those HO-HUM fans when he got Cesp at a 100 mill 4 year deal , resigned Blevins and with increased optimism picked up the option on Neil Walker ...
He did not pick up "the option" on Walker. He offered Walker arbitration and, yes, that was a terrible move. No way in hell any team was offering Walker anywhere near 17 million, especially coming off back surgery. So, it was quite likely he would accept.
Plus, Flores, Cabrera, Riveria, and Cecchini can all play 2B. Zero need for Walker at 17 million. That money should have been spent on the pen and/or starter depth.
And the fact that any fan would cite Walker at 17 mill as a "good" move, shows how much you are thinking as a fan. If another organization did that, you would be laughing your ass off.
I give Bruce alot of credit for bouncing back here after awful start. He deserves a decent contract, I just hope it's not from Mets.
DMM - you have an opinion on Marco Gonzales?
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Could probably name 20 SP who signed minor league deals who on paper looked like potential MLB depth. Gorzallaney not even close to that.
DMM - you have an opinion on Marco Gonzales?
He's been unable to stay healthy which has held him back. He has a shot to be a mid-rotation type. People rave about his CU, sometimes these plus CU guys surprise. I'd say 3-4 SP upside but he has to stay healthy otherwise he's not an MLBer.
He has the highest WAR on the team I believe , what do you Think is a fair deal for him say 2 years ?
Hate saying it, because he did all the right things (he meant well). But he stayed on a year too much. This offseason it is a an again unathletic team in transition, with little help on the way once Dom and Rosario are promoted. A far cry from "sustained success".
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personally ready for Sandy to move on. He's never really shown an inclination to make minor deals for interesting guys and I think a younger guy might be more in tune. The Mariners for instance swapped Karns for Dyson and Dyson is very quietly one of the more underrated players in baseball.
He has the highest WAR on the team I believe , what do you Think is a fair deal for him say 2 years ?
He's a very hard player to gauge. I was actually shocked myself how well he grades vs. other OF's. I knew he was somewhat underrated but he's been an above average regular multiple times. Had no idea.
His value was still sky high after proving himself post TJS and I think there had been enough evidence up to that point that he and the organization maybe werent going to see eye to eye, especially with Boras involved.
Would have been bold, but that was the move.
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personally ready for Sandy to move on. He's never really shown an inclination to make minor deals for interesting guys and I think a younger guy might be more in tune. The Mariners for instance swapped Karns for Dyson and Dyson is very quietly one of the more underrated players in baseball.
Hate saying it, because he did all the right things (he meant well). But he stayed on a year too much. This offseason it is a an again unathletic team in transition, with little help on the way once Dom and Rosario are promoted. A far cry from "sustained success".
The guy has had an incredible career and deserves his accolades I just think it's time for someone with a bit more energy/foresight. League is moving toward more athletes and the Mets don't seem eager to follow.
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resign him
.
Why? He's a pending FA.
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In comment 13532681 DanMetroMan said:
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personally ready for Sandy to move on. He's never really shown an inclination to make minor deals for interesting guys and I think a younger guy might be more in tune. The Mariners for instance swapped Karns for Dyson and Dyson is very quietly one of the more underrated players in baseball.
He has the highest WAR on the team I believe , what do you Think is a fair deal for him say 2 years ?
He's a very hard player to gauge. I was actually shocked myself how well he grades vs. other OF's. I knew he was somewhat underrated but he's been an above average regular multiple times. Had no idea.
How much for 2 years would you pay ? Powerful tool in a four-man rotation if he doesn't start versus lefties you bringi him in off the bench against right-handers or as a pinch-hitter
No thanks. Conforto needs to be on one of the corners. And they need to start getting serious about defense. Especially playing in this ballpark
I do believe despite what they say the Marlins will shop Stanton.
and now is the time to do it. they have the cheap years over and he's now owed $285M in the next 10 years (pending the opt out).
You don't think they'd have to give up a lot for Stanton? Haha, yeah, ok.
I wouldn't trade Rosario only because I think he can be an MVP type too, but a package for Stanton even with his contract would START with a Rosario like prospect.
the Mets just don't have that right now.
The White Sox could trade for Stanton.
Stanton is not a difference maker to deserve that large contracting
I don't want to keep forcing Conforto out of a CO spot. He really shouldn't be playing CF on a regular basis even though I think he could probably handle it passably if necessary.
We're back, baby!
who is the other one besides Murphy?
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to see two ex-Mets leading the league in BA.
who is the other one besides Murphy?
Turner officially qualifies now with his gaudy .370 BA
Could have been a hell of an infield.
But it's just 20/20 hindsight. I irrationally hated Turner when he was here and never thought he was anything special and I wasn't even that bummed about losing Murphy.
Of course both guys went on to be two of the better hitters in the NL... because Mets. Why the fuck not.
I Always wondered this
They are impending FA's so we can always sign if we wanted. In the meantime we can trade them to get assets for the future.
They had Wright not far removed from an MVP type season and more recently an all-star appearance, Murphy and Duda, if Turner was on the Mets he would have been a utility player and they never would have found out he was LA Dodgers Justin Turner.
I blame no one for that and I'm not going to revisit Murphy for the billionth time. sucks both players are doing so well for other teams but the decisions were both correct at the time.
the Reds traded Turner for a bag of balls and the Orioles DFA'd him. The Mets got him as a 25 year old waiver pick up.
The Dodgers only even signed him to a minor league deal after the Mets non-tendered him, so it's not like it was a big controversial decision.
Turner and Murphy in the lineup would certainly help the team though so no denial from me there.
If they do miss out on Cain then like I said above I'd make the QO to Bruce (which I suspect they should do anyway and hope he accepts it) and have Conforto play CF.
You do not give a player like Bruce a long-term deal IMO, but the Mets can absolutely win a World Series with an OF of Cespedes, Conforto, and Bruce....if the pitching holds up.
I Always wondered this
Lack of options. Before this it was new Orleans.
The Mets couldn't deal him this offseason despite trying hard to do so, and it looks like their is little interest from any contender in trading for him at the deadline. Why is he such a better fit here, especially when we already have two other corner OFs who need to play every day?
I'm fine with signing a bat-first type of OF as a sort of injury insurance, but there's no need to pay $18M to make that guy Jay Bruce. Lagares looked pretty good before he got hurt, and his CF defense alone makes him a solid play.
Shecky, it's exciting that he's producing some XBH!!
I'm looking forward to him joining the team. He's the future at 1B, but we shouldn't discredit the production Duda is giving us.
That's really exciting to see!
And no, I haven't forgotten about a certain guy behind the dish. I'll always annoy everyone about him...
And no, I haven't forgotten about a certain guy behind the dish. I'll always annoy everyone about him...
Shecky, do you have Twitter? I follow Astromets31 it's a GREAT follow. I get full updates and videos on all minors while it happens, and great recaps.
And no, I haven't forgotten about a certain guy behind the dish. I'll always annoy everyone about him...
Maybe you are the lone Plawecki fan, but there have been many Dom Smith fans on here. A lot of Mets beat writers/bloggers have said Smith will never duplicate Duda's offense, and maybe they're right about HR's (who knows) but when you compare their similarly aged minor league seasons, Smith wins every comparison.
Plus factor in $$$, and value, I said this a couple days ago if Duda is traded Smith could see Queens before Rosario.
And I would have bet a lot of money against that a year ago.
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But be also always been what felt like the lone Dom fan. So take any optimism I have regarding him with a grain of salt. Since he's near promotion, and Flexen is being Flexen, the next guy I annoy everyone around here with is Alonso
And no, I haven't forgotten about a certain guy behind the dish. I'll always annoy everyone about him...
Maybe you are the lone Plawecki fan, but there have been many Dom Smith fans on here. A lot of Mets beat writers/bloggers have said Smith will never duplicate Duda's offense, and maybe they're right about HR's (who knows) but when you compare their similarly aged minor league seasons, Smith wins every comparison.
Plus factor in $$$, and value, I said this a couple days ago if Duda is traded Smith could see Queens before Rosario.
And I would have bet a lot of money against that a year ago.
Catchers have become a black hole for about a decade. Lo Duca's last year here was 2007??
I was excited for d'Arnaud, Plawlecki (sp?), now Nido.. but hell..can ONE live up to expectations??
Too old for twitter and blogs etc. I get their value, and for fans it's an incredible opportunity, but it's just not me. I always prefer to make up my own mind and opinion (whether right or wrong) before being tainted by another narrative.
I wanted Plawecki to succeed, and I hope Nido does, but Shecky is President and Vice President of the Kevin Plawecki fan club.
He takes fandom to a whole new level.
I gave my "catching kiss of death" to Ali back in the GCL lol - perhaps my earliest death knell.
Why is it such a big deal NOW? Keith & Ron are right.. these players are TOO fit. That's why they're always hurt.
I wanted Plawecki to succeed, and I hope Nido does, but Shecky is President and Vice President of the Kevin Plawecki fan club.
He takes fandom to a whole new level.
I can't wait till he Justin Turners us somewhere else so I can finally say "see, told you so" lol
Too old for twitter and blogs etc. I get their value, and for fans it's an incredible opportunity, but it's just not me. I always prefer to make up my own mind and opinion (whether right or wrong) before being tainted by another narrative.
Did you see the recent scout notes made public?
I said before I hope he becomes a cross between Prince Fielder and Mo Vaughn. I don't need Willie Mays Hayes playing 1B, as long as he can play 150+ games I don't care.
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was as advertised (a top 20 prospect), but between injures and poor play he hasn't.
I wanted Plawecki to succeed, and I hope Nido does, but Shecky is President and Vice President of the Kevin Plawecki fan club.
He takes fandom to a whole new level.
I can't wait till he Justin Turners us somewhere else so I can finally say "see, told you so" lol
best case is for him to set some minor league records.
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It all started when writers were all copying one persons write up of calling him fat and lazy. Yeah, he was fat. I defended the lazy part.
Too old for twitter and blogs etc. I get their value, and for fans it's an incredible opportunity, but it's just not me. I always prefer to make up my own mind and opinion (whether right or wrong) before being tainted by another narrative.
Did you see the recent scout notes made public?
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Dominic Smith? "Overweight, out of shape, moves like he's 50 [years old]."
I said before I hope he becomes a cross between Prince Fielder and Mo Vaughn. I don't need Willie Mays Hayes playing 1B, as long as he can play 150+ games I don't care.
Give me Kent Hrbek production out of the big guy!!!
Addison Reed should bring back a nice return.
Addison Reed should bring back a nice return.
including
Joel Sherman "Hear 1 player #Marlins are getting from #mariners in trade is A-level OF Brayan Hernandez"
Addison Reed should bring back a nice return.
Phelps has more value than anyone the Mets have to offer.
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netted 4 prospects from Seattle.
Addison Reed should bring back a nice return.
Phelps has more value than anyone the Mets have to offer.
Only because Phelps is under control in 2018, for a win-now team Reed is a better pitcher than Phelps and should still net a decent return.
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In comment 13533261 feelflows said:
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netted 4 prospects from Seattle.
Addison Reed should bring back a nice return.
Phelps has more value than anyone the Mets have to offer.
Only because Phelps is under control in 2018, for a win-now team Reed is a better pitcher than Phelps and should still net a decent return.
For sure. But 1.5 years of control beats .5 a year and Phelps didn't really bring back a sexy package as it is. Phelps also potentially can be viewed as a rotation piece next season if Seattle wants go to that way. The best piece they got was a bonus baby who has yet to do much. Seattle made a solid move here despite the hubbub over "4 prospects for Phelps?!?
Very silly.
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In comment 13533310 DanMetroMan said:
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In comment 13533261 feelflows said:
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netted 4 prospects from Seattle.
Addison Reed should bring back a nice return.
Phelps has more value than anyone the Mets have to offer.
Only because Phelps is under control in 2018, for a win-now team Reed is a better pitcher than Phelps and should still net a decent return.
For sure. But 1.5 years of control beats .5 a year and Phelps didn't really bring back a sexy package as it is. Phelps also potentially can be viewed as a rotation piece next season if Seattle wants go to that way. The best piece they got was a bonus baby who has yet to do much. Seattle made a solid move here despite the hubbub over "4 prospects for Phelps?!?
I agree, I just think getting one of a teams top 10 prospects for Reed isn't out of the question.
and IMO that would be a similar return.
Mets gave up Casey Meisner for Clippard and Reed is probably better than Clippard and I don't remember exactly where Meisner was slotted in the mets top prospects, but he was also 20 years old.
If the Mets get a 20 year top 10-ish prospect for Reed (not top 10 in baseball, top 10 for a team) I'd think that's fair and similar.
And I'd then hope the Mets re-sign Reed.
also.. has anyone ever noticed what a Mets hater Heyman is? Even during their WS run 2 years ago. I know he was a Newsday(??) beat writer. Did they wrong him??
Of course, given the health of our pitchers, we probably would need to keep him.
Of course, given the health of our pitchers, we probably would need to keep him.
His partially torn UCL will scare many teams away
Put Cabrera at 3B?
Seems to make sense.
I wonder what we'd have to add to get Mejia. Are they also in the market for relievers? Would adding Reed hold any value? TDA?
Put Cabrera at 3B?
Seems to make sense.
Rivera played a solid 2B down the stretch during last year's playoff run. Would be great to see what we have with him for the rest of this season after the deadline. Hopefully they don't give Walker all of those ABs (after the deadline).
looked pretty good.
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would love to deal Bruce to Cleveland but they DO have 3 lefty hitting OF's so it's a tough fit. They do have some solid prospects.
I wonder what we'd have to add to get Mejia. Are they also in the market for relievers? Would adding Reed hold any value? TDA?
Untouchable. Absolutely no way the Mets would be able to add Mejia sans moving DeGrom.
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Per source, Brewers among a half dozen teams to show interest in Mets most valuable trade chip Addison Reed:
We're fuckin' back baby!
Wooooooooo
Time to be buyers
DeGrom won't be traded.
The Mets won't trade their most durable SP. If they want to have any chance of competing next season they will need Degrom.
Good thing we traded Dilson Herrera, whos been alright for Cinci
I was waiting to hear more about the injury after he got pulled the other week. Figured that this was going to be the case, but it still sucks. Should be ready by 2020 though. Just in time for when some of the current crop leaves.
Good thing we traded Dilson Herrera, whos been alright for Cinci
Herrera hasn't played in the majors for Cincy.
And no, I haven't forgotten about a certain guy behind the dish. I'll always annoy everyone about him...
Shecky, Alonso is killing it. The kid has some power.
Crismatt is striking out everyone down in PSL
-2016 pick bonus baby Matt Cleveland has yet to pitch so he like Planck is likely hurt as well.
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-2016 pick bonus baby Matt Cleveland has yet to pitch so he like Planck is likely hurt as well.
Hoping Lindsay and Alonso can finish the season strong and make it to AA next year.