NFT: Mets willing to pick up cash for better prospects

I kind of feel like they know he's not going to play again.

I would love to see it happen, but I cannot believe the Mets were counting on any contribution from Wright this year or in the future.

put it this way, the bullpen sucks this year and they don't have anyone in the minors who figures to change that to open 2018 so if they don't bring in multiple guys from outside the organization expect more of the same (and worse assuming Reed walks).

In comment 13532432 pjcas18 said:

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I kind of feel like they know he's not going to play again. I would love to see it happen, but I cannot believe the Mets were counting on any contribution from Wright this year or in the future.

They sure seemed to imply publicly that David Wright would be the starting 3b and hoped he would play about 100 games. I don't remember any indication otherwise. Reyes was supposed to serve as insurance not be the starting 3b.

make matters worse the minor league system has mostly been underwhelming and/or injured. Even guys who had previous success like Cecchini have disappointed. Justin Dunn has been a disaster, Becerra is no longer a prospect, Humphreys breaks out... now elbow problems, Planck shoulder surgery, Ali Sanchez a zero, Szapucki hurt again. There have been some bright spots but 2017 overall has been a real dud for the Mets organization. Hopefully 2018 is brighter.

In comment 13532436 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 13532432 pjcas18 said: Quote: I kind of feel like they know he's not going to play again. I would love to see it happen, but I cannot believe the Mets were counting on any contribution from Wright this year or in the future. They sure seemed to imply publicly that David Wright would be the starting 3b and hoped he would play about 100 games. I don't remember any indication otherwise. Reyes was supposed to serve as insurance not be the starting 3b.

Well I didn't buy that did you?

They probably had to have that approach for the insurance or something, but I'd be shocked if internally they expected Wright to hit the field this year, let alone play 100 games.

"Heading into last season, the Mets had predicted Wright would play in 130 games. He went just 37 before he was shut down. Sandy Alderson said that while he expects Wright to be his Opening Day third baseman, the team has to be prepared in case Wright is unable to get through the season."

I remember a lot of people concerned that Reed would turn into a pumpkin this year (Shecky) but he didn't. He's been great again. He will be a massive loss. Combined with all the injuries and other issues they likely need to bring in 2-3 guys from outside the organization with one being an elite back-end option.

Only Familia, Blevins, and Sewald should be locks. You can probably get away with a long man too so that's 4. Need 3 more.

didn't buy it but Jose Reyes, all of 34 years old and oft-injured himself was the insurance. Reyes did look good over 60 games last season but he was the primary insurance if Wright didn't hold up? They relied on far too many guys to be healthy, guys who never/rarely have been.

Wright, TDA, Matz, Wheeler, Harvey, Reyes, Duda, Ces, Lagares, Walker (coming off back surgery). They played with fire and got burnt. This wasn't 2-3 guys, this was 1/3 of the team and most of the core.

In comment 13532454 DanMetroMan said:

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didn't buy it but Jose Reyes, all of 34 years old and oft-injured himself was the insurance. Reyes did look good over 60 games last season but he was the primary insurance if Wright didn't hold up? They relied on far too many guys to be healthy, guys who never/rarely have been. Wright, TDA, Matz, Wheeler, Harvey, Reyes, Duda, Ces, Lagares, Walker (coming off back surgery). They played with fire and got burnt. This wasn't 2-3 guys, this was 1/3 of the team and most of the core.

I think they were planning on the insurance being Walker, Reyes, Flores, and Rivera.

Which should have been ok, but Walker obviously was injured, Flores isn't comfortable at 3B, Rivera is a butcher in the field in general and Reyes turned 45 before our eyes.

Cabrera should have also been a consideration but he's a bitch.

Mets should be calling up guys like McGowan a look in September but shame on them if they count on guys like this going into 2018.

In comment 13532457 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 13532454 DanMetroMan said: Quote: didn't buy it but Jose Reyes, all of 34 years old and oft-injured himself was the insurance. Reyes did look good over 60 games last season but he was the primary insurance if Wright didn't hold up? They relied on far too many guys to be healthy, guys who never/rarely have been. Wright, TDA, Matz, Wheeler, Harvey, Reyes, Duda, Ces, Lagares, Walker (coming off back surgery). They played with fire and got burnt. This wasn't 2-3 guys, this was 1/3 of the team and most of the core. I think they were planning on the insurance being Walker, Reyes, Flores, and Rivera. Which should have been ok, but Walker obviously was injured, Flores isn't comfortable at 3B, Rivera is a butcher in the field in general and Reyes turned 45 before our eyes. Cabrera should have also been a consideration but he's a bitch.

And the insurance for Wheeler/Matz/Harvey were 2 unproven guys (though admittedly I believed in Gsellman) with NOTHING in AAA should Lugo/Gsellman falter or other injuries and the insurance in the BP was literally nobody.

In comment 13532465 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 13532457 pjcas18 said: Quote: In comment 13532454 DanMetroMan said: Quote: didn't buy it but Jose Reyes, all of 34 years old and oft-injured himself was the insurance. Reyes did look good over 60 games last season but he was the primary insurance if Wright didn't hold up? They relied on far too many guys to be healthy, guys who never/rarely have been. Wright, TDA, Matz, Wheeler, Harvey, Reyes, Duda, Ces, Lagares, Walker (coming off back surgery). They played with fire and got burnt. This wasn't 2-3 guys, this was 1/3 of the team and most of the core. I think they were planning on the insurance being Walker, Reyes, Flores, and Rivera. Which should have been ok, but Walker obviously was injured, Flores isn't comfortable at 3B, Rivera is a butcher in the field in general and Reyes turned 45 before our eyes. Cabrera should have also been a consideration but he's a bitch. And the insurance for Wheeler/Matz/Harvey were 2 unproven guys (though admittedly I believed in Gsellman) with NOTHING in AAA should Lugo/Gsellman falter or other injuries and the insurance in the BP was literally nobody.

Agree, and I'd say c'est la vie, shit happens, but we were almost unanimous this off-season among the BBI Mets fans the depth was risky.

and I always go back to this but Collins told reporters that Adam Wilk (he of the 6.49 MLB era coming into the season) was not in the mix for the BP... because they needed him as SP depth. That's scary.

was

Boscan, Wilk, Montero, Gilmartin, Tyler Pill... Yuckarooni

having a coming out party in AA.

today keeps rolling with (so far) 5 IP, 3H 1ER, 3BB, 6K

on the season in AA he's got a 1.73 ERA, .68 WHIP (before today) in 41 IP, 43K's to 4 BB's.

In comment 13532473 pjcas18 said:

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having a coming out party in AA. today keeps rolling with (so far) 5 IP, 3H 1ER, 3BB, 6K on the season in AA he's got a 1.73 ERA, .68 WHIP (before today) in 41 IP, 43K's to 4 BB's.

Yup one of the few bright spots. Merandy Gonzalez, a few others. Overall a borderline disaster but Flexen should be in the mix next season. He too is oft-injured however.

In comment 13532442 DanMetroMan said:

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make matters worse the minor league system has mostly been underwhelming and/or injured. Even guys who had previous success like Cecchini have disappointed. Justin Dunn has been a disaster, Becerra is no longer a prospect, Humphreys breaks out... now elbow problems, Planck shoulder surgery, Ali Sanchez a zero, Szapucki hurt again. There have been some bright spots but 2017 overall has been a real dud for the Mets organization. Hopefully 2018 is brighter.

Well said, and a big point often overlooked. This has showed signs of shaping up for a while now, and has come crashing down. Unfortunately, this is much harder to fix than the big club is.

Being after we lost three guys to injury. If Wheeler is making the rotation than Gsellman is in Vegas with Montero. That's also assuming Lugo as the long man who could have also slid in. That's 3 decent options in reserve. It just didn't work out.

I haven't been following, but I hope Mets fans are peppering Keith Law with Tebow question.

adding Kay, Peterson and Dibrell (3 college arms) to the fold "next season" will give them some more SP options in the "near" term. They really need a talent influx. If Rosario and Smith graduate this year I'm not even sure who they will have ranked as the top prospect in the system. Healthy like Szapucki, maybe Gimenez based on upside? Top 20 list next year is not going to be pretty on paper to open the season (obviously on paper means very little until the games are played).

In comment 13532480 ZGiants98 said:

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Being after we lost three guys to injury. If Wheeler is making the rotation than Gsellman is in Vegas with Montero. That's also assuming Lugo as the long man who could have also slid in. That's 3 decent options in reserve. It just didn't work out.

And you generally need 8-10 SP's to get through a season even in the best of years. Wheeler was going to throw 185+ quality innings? Gsellman was? Lugo was? Matz was? The depth was laughable from day 1, this isn't some revisionist BS. EVERYONE was noting the lack of upper minors depth.

Pitchers
Last year, starting pitching was a problem for the 51s, who posted a collective 5.32 ERA. Things are not looking like they will be all that much more different for the 2017 51s, as a starting rotation of Ricky Knapp, Adam Wilk, Donovan Hand, and Sean Gilmartin does not appear poised to be a dominant collection of pitchers.

AA-
The Pitchers
Tyler Pill, who will be starting Opening Day, and Irish left-hander P.J. Conlon will headline the inaugural Rumble Pony rotation. Joining them will be Chris Flexen, when he returns from the disabled list. Mickey Jannis, Casey Delgado, Corey Oswalt, and Scarlyn Reyes will compete for starts, with more than one of those pitchers likely being transitioned into the bullpen over the course of the season.

So this wasn't some unforeseen situation. There was NOTHING there.

hope they look into Harrison at 3b for next season

I count 8 but whatever. Don't care enough to argue.

I will continue to believe that Thor was a massive blow that we simply weren't going to recover from regardless.

AAA was barren outside of Gsellman, Lugo, and Montero but we just graduated 5 guys over the last few years. I don't know wat the answer is to fixing that. Be in on waiver claims? Sign Colón and stash him in AAA?

for this coming year really stinks. Yuck.

In comment 13532502 ZGiants98 said:

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AAA was barren outside of Gsellman, Lugo, and Montero but we just graduated 5 guys over the last few years. I don't know wat the answer is to fixing that. Be in on waiver claims? Sign Colón and stash him in AAA?

They signed the fewest minor league FA of any team in baseball this past off-season. There was no attempt at even trying to find depth. Didn't claim anyone on waivers. 2015 Mets 10 SP made starts, 2016 12 did. Considering Harvey/Matz/Wheeler were 3 of their SP and unproven Gsellman/Lugo were 2 others this was very silly + Montero coming off a season where he posted a 7.20 era.

close, but there is a decent crop coming up.

Justin Dunn
Merandy Gonzalez
Chris Flexen
David Peterson
Thomas Szpapucki
Marcos Molina
Anthony Kay

some are oft-injured, but there is some depth there and at least some should be ready by the time Harvey leaves in 2019. I wonder if they would accelerate Molina to a bullpen role, and maybe move Gsellman to the bullpen as well.

I wouldn't be shocked if we used our boatload of cash this off-season to go after either Ohani from Japan or Yu Darvish to bolster the rotation.

Imagine

deGrom
Syndergaard
Darvish
Matz
Harvey
Wheeler

In comment 13532509 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 13532502 ZGiants98 said: Quote: AAA was barren outside of Gsellman, Lugo, and Montero but we just graduated 5 guys over the last few years. I don't know wat the answer is to fixing that. Be in on waiver claims? Sign Colón and stash him in AAA? They signed the fewest minor league FA of any team in baseball this past off-season. There was no attempt at even trying to find depth. Didn't claim anyone on waivers. 2015 Mets 10 SP made starts, 2016 12 did. Considering Harvey/Matz/Wheeler were 3 of their SP and unproven Gsellman/Lugo were 2 others this was very silly + Montero coming off a season where he posted a 7.20 era.

Isn't somebody like Gorzallany the minor league flier type? I know he sucks but aren't most guys like that you can sign ugly and your hoping for lightning in a bottle? Gilmartin had a string of success before. I just don't see a lot of room where you can go there.

Ton of money coming off the books and a young, inexpensive lineup. I double down on the pitching and take my chances with a three headed monster of Thor, DeGrom, and Darvish next year.

hope to trade for Harrison, look into Lucroy on a buy low, offer Lorenzo Cain a very high AAV 3 year deal, fill 2b internally (sign a decent utility player as insurance), wouldn't hate offering Brandon Phillips a low money deal to start at 2b. I'd look into Wade Davis.

1B Smith
2B Wilmer/TJ or Phillips
SS Rosario
3B Harrison
LF Cespedes
CF Cain
RF Conforto
C Lucroy

just open up the vault, he would be a perfect fit. 5 year deal, 150 mil, 30 mil a year, and we still have a ton of money to build up the bullpen, and hopefully some of these trade chips we pick up can help us in the back end as well or we can move gsellman/lugo to the pen.

he has been playing dynamite lately and is a good mentor for rosario.

He's 35 years old coming off a 5.95 2015, and a 2016 where he was mostly in AAA where he walked 16 in 24 innings c'mon that's not a flier, that's giving a finished guy a chance to surprise you. He had made 13 MLB starts since 2011.

isn't a bad idea. Would be nice for Matz to finish the year strong and regain some value and maybe Mets could package send him off somewhere for an IF if we sign Darvish.

Again, who are you signing as a minor league free agent that's good? Whoever it is isn't even solid enough to be protected on a teams 40 man. You're usually talking bottom of the barrel options. Every once in a while a Dice K comes around or something but sometimes they don't.

Used out of the pen since 2011 and horrid 2 years running at 35 isn't even close to a legit depth sp option cmon.

In comment 13532532 CMicks3110 said:

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just open up the vault, he would be a perfect fit. 5 year deal, 150 mil, 30 mil a year, and we still have a ton of money to build up the bullpen, and hopefully some of these trade chips we pick up can help us in the back end as well or we can move gsellman/lugo to the pen.

Yup. And I'm also fine with never extending or offering big pay days to any of our other starting pitches. They all throw hard and will be oft injured. Darvish can be our one big guy signed in the rotation. The rest can be put out to pasture when they are done being under control. I really don't care. DeGrom will be 32. Thor won't be a free agent for 5 more years. A lot will change.

In comment 13532546 DanMetroMan said:

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Used out of the pen since 2011 and horrid 2 years running at 35 isn't even close to a legit depth sp option cmon.

I didn't say he was "legit depth". Legit depth are players you can count on. You usually are only going to get that through your system. Minor league free agent guys outside of every teams 40 man are usually ugly. There's always the option to trade for somebody though I guess.

Could probably name 20 SP who signed minor league deals who on paper looked like potential MLB depth. Gorzallaney not even close to that.

Is an absolute pipe dream...

It is obvious and not even debatable. If you don't see it, it's because you are looking the rose colored glasses of a fan.

But the real question is whether letting Murph go, giving Walker 17 m and ignoring the pen and starter depth, signing the likes of Salas, DeAza and Bastado--were these just individual errors in judgment or are they the product of an antiquated baseball philosophy?

Or to put it another way: will Sandy self-assess and adapt his approach or will he stubbornly try to win with what appears to be a 1990s philosophy?

Personally I think the Mets need younger blood so I would not resign either Terry or Sandy. The contracts of both are up so why not just get a fresh start?

So there's one.

I think DePo was a major loss for this franchise.

In comment 13532553 brunswick said:

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Is an absolute pipe dream...

really? he's a massive injury risk.

If your going to spend that type of money on a SP , Alex Cobb from TB is my choice

In comment 13532497 DanMetroMan said:

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hope they look into Harrison at 3b for next season

Dan, I assume you mean Josh Harrison

Is he a FA?

In comment 13532557 arcarsenal said:

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I think DePo was a major loss for this franchise.

Yea, I think this might be true too.

In comment 13532554 Vanzetti said:

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It is obvious and not even debatable. If you don't see it, it's because you are looking the rose colored glasses of a fan. But the real question is whether letting Murph go, giving Walker 17 m and ignoring the pen and starter depth, signing the likes of Salas, DeAza and Bastado--were these just individual errors in judgment or are they the product of an antiquated baseball philosophy? Or to put it another way: will Sandy self-assess and adapt his approach or will he stubbornly try to win with what appears to be a 1990s philosophy? Personally I think the Mets need younger blood so I would not resign either Terry or Sandy. The contracts of both are up so why not just get a fresh start?

I think the word awful is a little much...

Or were you one of those HO-HUM fans when he got Cesp at a 100 mill 4 year deal , resigned Blevins and with increased optimism picked up the option on Neil Walker ...

I agree. He has been extremely disappointing. He wanted Gomez instead of Cespedes. He was thinking about extending Walker for about 15M/year. He thought we had a major league 3B on the roster knowing the Wright situation. They talked all winter about adding right bat to the l/u and Sandy did nothing. The list can go on and on. I am pretty certain he will sign an extension and that would be typical Wilpons. They definitely need to get younger and more athletic going forward.

potential depth are guys like

De La Rosa
Niese (I despise Niese just giving an example)
Gee
Edwin Jackson
Bud Norris

Guys with some level of MLB success in recent years not absolute garbage or guys who are 35 without any success in years. Knowing that you graduated/traded a bunch of arms shouldn't = "eh whatever lets just have trash at AAA/AA and not worry about it"