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Aldrick Rosas

arcarsenal : 7/20/2017 10:49 am
So, this is probably the best I've felt about a NYG roster going into a new season for about as long as I can remember. Yeah, we have a few weaknesses - we don't have the best OL, our LB's aren't the strongest group, and our group of RB's have a lot to prove...

But I'm a little leery of the PK situation.

I watched the Bucs spend a 2nd rd pick on Aguayo and saw games where the kid looked like he had the yips and couldn't make a kick. If you're spending a 2nd rd pick on a kicker, the guy better be a machine.

Now, Rosas wasn't drafted - he was a UDFA signed and waived by Tennessee last year.

I know there's been positive press on him. The Giants seem to really like his leg. But until game situations come into play, you really don't know.

I'm just slightly nervous about what could happen if he doesn't pan out and we're left scrambling to find someone off the scrap heap. The last thing I want to see is a guy like Randy Bullock lining up for a game deciding kick at the gun.

Robbie Gould isn't the greatest PK at this point but I felt at least relatively confident most times he lined up to kick a FG last year as long as the distance was reasonable.

I'm not going nuts over this, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't at least a tiny bit uneasy about the kicking game here. It does matter and can cost a team games during the year.

Is my skepticism unwarranted?
the  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/20/2017 10:50 am : link
good news is that - unlike other positions - they can add a kicker the night before a game and he can perform.

I cover this in my special teams preview that will be out tomorrow. It's an issue because a season can be wrecked (or saved) by a kicker.
It is unwarranted..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/20/2017 10:52 am : link
because even if he sucks, you can always get a vet on the wire.

Hell, Gould wasn't very good last year, but he was serviceable. At any point in time, there are up to a dozen PK's with a fair amount of experience that aren't on a team, so grabbing one if needed isn't a problem.

Rosas probably has more upside than any kicker we've had in awhile, and one of the strongest legs in recent years.
I can't recall anything that gould fouled up on  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/20/2017 10:54 am : link
so he couldn't have been that bad. But an unknown kicker as a concern is certainly a valid concern when you're talking about a team that expects to make the playoffs, sure. I think you have the right perspective.
I felt this way prior to 2008  
giants#1 : 7/20/2017 10:55 am : link
and it looked like they were on a mission until they brought out the guns...

Your feelings regarding Rosas are definitely warranted. The Giants 'recent' success and failures show the importance of a good kicking unit (Tynes vs Junkin).

That said, you can often find a 'steady' vet that can at least hit FGs <45 yards after the final cuts. Not ideal, and you might need to carry a 3rd P/K for KOs, but not the end of the world.
It's not something I worry about, for a few reasons  
Chris684 : 7/20/2017 10:56 am : link
First, in 2008 John Carney killed us against the Eagles in the playoffs. The guy had been kicking in the NFL since the 1980's. The point is, even the most seasoned veteran doesnt mean you're bulletproof in the big moments.

Also, the Giants seem to be good at developing kickers and shipping them out of town. Matt Bryant and McManus come to mind but I think there might be someone else I'm forgetting.

Anyway, we'll have a better idea after some preseason games and if need be you fall back on the handful of K's with experience who are usually sitting around waiting for a team.
RE: I can't recall anything that gould fouled up on  
giants#1 : 7/20/2017 11:00 am : link
In comment 13533192 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
so he couldn't have been that bad. But an unknown kicker as a concern is certainly a valid concern when you're talking about a team that expects to make the playoffs, sure. I think you have the right perspective.


Well, he was 20-23 on XPA (87%) so he fouled up on a bunch of those. And his 2 misses against Chicago almost cost them that game.

Also hard to know if he never attempted a FG >47 yards because of a lack of trust in him or because McAdoo wanted to ride the D and pin teams inside their own 20.

Giants were also near the bottom (25th) in touchback percentage, so he wasn't strong in that department either.
TB% - ( New Window )
.  
arcarsenal : 7/20/2017 11:04 am : link
I guess looking at available PK's right now probably would be pointless because others will shake loose after camp cut-down's.

I think I'm just worried about what that group will look like in the event that Rosas isn't a guy we can trust.

After the Matt Dodge fiasco (albeit, as a punter), I think I'm just a bit scarred and worry about special teams being a problem.
Gould  
ECham : 7/20/2017 11:05 am : link
nearly ruined the Chicago game
I think..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/20/2017 11:06 am : link
McAdoo will have a shorter leash than TC did and would pull the plug on Rosas if he gets off to a poor start.

at that point, we wouldn't be any worse off than last year when we signed Gould. Gould was steady but that's about it. There will be guys available who can do what Gould did, easily.
I know it's very visible  
jcn56 : 7/20/2017 11:08 am : link
but I never thought the spread between awful kicker and great kicker was all that big.

Yes, you'd rather have the great one. But most teams have decent kickers - are they really that much better than the awful ones?

If K is the biggest problem child position on the team this year I will be a very happy camper.
arc  
robbieballs2003 : 7/20/2017 11:08 am : link
You say you don't want someone off the scrapheap so what do you suggest we do now? Anybody we get now would be off the scrapheap. And, like others have suggested, there are vets that we can sign or give up a late round pick for a team that will cut one of two kickers at roster cutdowns.

The positives are that the Giants have a great track record at finding young quality kickers. We just never kept them. Also, kickers don't need ro come in and learn new plays or anything like that. They can come in a week before the season starts and get used to the snapper and holder and all is good. It is better to be patient right now and see what this kid has. If he gives us any doubt then we start exploring our options.
RE: .  
giants#1 : 7/20/2017 11:10 am : link
In comment 13533212 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I guess looking at available PK's right now probably would be pointless because others will shake loose after camp cut-down's.

I think I'm just worried about what that group will look like in the event that Rosas isn't a guy we can trust.

After the Matt Dodge fiasco (albeit, as a punter), I think I'm just a bit scarred and worry about special teams being a problem.


It's likely someone on Gould's level will be available.




Or there's always Josh Brown
RE: Gould  
Clintqb17 : 7/20/2017 11:14 am : link
In comment 13533215 ECham said:
Quote:
nearly ruined the Chicago game


To be fair, it was very windy that day. No excuses but you have to keep that in mind.
they're taking a slight chance on young guy with a big leg...  
Torrag : 7/20/2017 11:37 am : link
...which makes sense considering they can pluck a number of guys similar to what we trottted to the field last season pretty much anytime they want. There is no downside and if he pans out we'll have improved depth on kickoffs and range for field goals. No brainer really.
...  
annexOPR : 7/20/2017 11:41 am : link
you know your team is loaded when:

kicker is 1 of the biggest "concerns". if he sucks in preseason, they'll sign a vet. they like/trust him, so that leaves me cautiously optimistic.
RE: arc  
arcarsenal : 7/20/2017 11:41 am : link
In comment 13533221 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
You say you don't want someone off the scrapheap so what do you suggest we do now? Anybody we get now would be off the scrapheap. And, like others have suggested, there are vets that we can sign or give up a late round pick for a team that will cut one of two kickers at roster cutdowns.

The positives are that the Giants have a great track record at finding young quality kickers. We just never kept them. Also, kickers don't need ro come in and learn new plays or anything like that. They can come in a week before the season starts and get used to the snapper and holder and all is good. It is better to be patient right now and see what this kid has. If he gives us any doubt then we start exploring our options.


There's no viable alternative right now, this is just the bed we made.

It may well be a complete non-issue. Rosas might turn out to be really solid.

My point is - I worry about what we're going to be left choosing from if he's not.

I actually think we were fortunate to even get a guy like Gould when we did last year. Gould is obviously nothing special but I shudder to think what a season could turn into if we were forced to have a guy like Bullock lining up to kick in crucial situations.
This isn't really true..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/20/2017 11:44 am : link
Quote:
There's no viable alternative right now, this is just the bed we made


with the kicker position, a viable alternative is almost always available. Hell, last year, we started the season with Brown, signed Bullock, then Gould and were fine.

And that's with Gould being worse than the average kicker on made %, touchbacks and average opponent starting position.

I'm not sure how the bed is any more unmade than it was last year.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/20/2017 11:54 am : link
By "viable alternative," what I really mean is that anyone still on the unemployment line is probably below average.

Look at the list of available kickers right now. It's ugly. Dan Carpenter is the best you'll get.

Ask the Vikings if kickers matter or not. Blair Walsh ruined their 2015 season. I'd prefer not to see the same happen here.
Dan Carpenter..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/20/2017 12:02 pm : link
is better than Gould was last year.

You can point and say that Gould didn't directly lose any games for us because he didn't miss any critical FG's, but he wasn't really called on to make any.

The previous year, Brown went 30-32 on FG's and yet a missed FG in the Jets game cost us a win.

Even in a worst case, we are going to get a guy who is 80% or better on FG's and misses a couple of XP's. Carpenter can do that. Gould can do that. Pretty much any vet can do that.
...  
annexOPR : 7/20/2017 12:06 pm : link
what's the point of worrying so much about this? they've had plenty of time to observe/evaluate him "behind the scenes". they spent this offseason addressing gaping holes and keeping the dominant defense [mostly] in tact. it's quite clear they are gearing up for a SB run ...

if the people who's actual livelihood is tied to the giants success didn't feel the need to sign a veteran - it should be taken as a good sign.

"He's got nice size, a nice strong leg and he's been highly accurate since he's been here," special teams coach Tom Quinn said of Rosas last week. "He's very coachable, so he's been very good to work with."

Good things.

RE: ...  
robbieballs2003 : 7/20/2017 12:14 pm : link
In comment 13533301 annexOPR said:
Quote:
what's the point of worrying so much about this? they've had plenty of time to observe/evaluate him "behind the scenes". they spent this offseason addressing gaping holes and keeping the dominant defense [mostly] in tact. it's quite clear they are gearing up for a SB run ...

if the people who's actual livelihood is tied to the giants success didn't feel the need to sign a veteran - it should be taken as a good sign.

"He's got nice size, a nice strong leg and he's been highly accurate since he's been here," special teams coach Tom Quinn said of Rosas last week. "He's very coachable, so he's been very good to work with."

Good things.


I agree.


- Matt Dodge
As has been said again and again on this thread,  
Ira : 7/20/2017 12:26 pm : link
if Rosas doesn't work out we can pick up a veteran kicker whenever. The other side to this is that he does work out well, we may have a special kicker with a strong leg on our team.
...  
annexOPR : 7/20/2017 12:27 pm : link
McManus and the Pitt kicker would've been nice ....
RE: ...  
arcarsenal : 7/20/2017 12:28 pm : link
In comment 13533301 annexOPR said:
Quote:
what's the point of worrying so much about this? they've had plenty of time to observe/evaluate him "behind the scenes". they spent this offseason addressing gaping holes and keeping the dominant defense [mostly] in tact. it's quite clear they are gearing up for a SB run ...

if the people who's actual livelihood is tied to the giants success didn't feel the need to sign a veteran - it should be taken as a good sign.

"He's got nice size, a nice strong leg and he's been highly accurate since he's been here," special teams coach Tom Quinn said of Rosas last week. "He's very coachable, so he's been very good to work with."

Good things.


Am I really coming off like I'm insanely worried about this?

It's July 20th, we're about a week away from camp, and I had just randomly been musing over our PK situation so I brought it up to see what other people thought.

Apparently my concerns are unwarranted.

I was just curious as to what other people thought. The odds of a kicker wrecking our season is slim, but it's still important to have a guy you can trust because there are situations where kickers can directly lose you games.

We were fortunate last year in that we pretty much never needed Robbie Gould to win us a football game with his leg. I can't recall him having to line up for a whole lot of high pressure kicks late in games but maybe it's just slipping my memory.
...  
annexOPR : 7/20/2017 12:29 pm : link
hopefully this year's offense finds the end zone quite a bit more - and this is all moot

or maybe Rosas is the next Mcmanus/Boswell - guys we let go of for the "solid vet"
Even discussing McManus..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/20/2017 1:24 pm : link
Denver was looking to upgrade from him, so even where the grass looks greener, it gets pissed on a lot.
I don't think your concerns are unwarranted.  
Brown Recluse : 7/20/2017 1:37 pm : link
Its worth discussion, especially during the "doldrums" of mid July.

We've all seen how a kicker can ruin a game, and in a tight division like the NFC East- every win seems hard-earned.

The Giants are giving him every oppprtunity to prove himself  
Simms11 : 7/20/2017 1:47 pm : link
as he's got a strong leg and has shown to be accurate. I can't wait to see what he can do in camp and pre-season. If at the end of Pre-Season he hasn't done well, then I think the Giants will absolutely go with an established Vet. As others here have already said, a Kicker doesn't need too much practice and could actually be picked up the week prior to the first game, get used to his holder and snapper and go from there. Hell, I think Gould came in like mid-week before he had to fly to London to then kick in that game and so it can and will be done, if Rosas falters. IMO, I think it's kind of exciting to see a young guy with a strong accurate leg come in and potentially be a part of the team for a longer period of time.
We'll be fine  
csh2z : 7/20/2017 1:51 pm : link
as long as we score touchdowns instead of field goals. That's up to the offense. We don't need no stinkin' kicker!
Is the fomer Jet  
Carson53 : 7/20/2017 9:43 pm : link
still out there, one Nick Folk? I thought they might bring
in someone like him. My guess is that at some point,
they bring in a vet. to compete. I don't have a problem
with an UDFA, just do your job.
RE: ...  
Carson53 : 7/20/2017 9:48 pm : link
In comment 13533338 annexOPR said:
Quote:
McManus and the Pitt kicker would've been nice ....
.

I wanted them to keep McManus when he was here, but they kept
somebody named Brown. I could see his potential, and loved that strong leg.
This was well before the hoopla ensued, just saying.
We are screwed with an unproven kicker  
Jimmy Googs : 7/20/2017 10:44 pm : link
Let's just go for it on 4th down...
RE: RE: ...  
annexOPR : 7/21/2017 12:17 pm : link
In comment 13534152 Carson53 said:
Quote:
In comment 13533338 annexOPR said:


Quote:


McManus and the Pitt kicker would've been nice ....

.

I wanted them to keep McManus when he was here, but they kept
somebody named Brown. I could see his potential, and loved that strong leg.
This was well before the hoopla ensued, just saying.


McManus did struggle, I believe 2014 ... hindsight's 20/20 I guess

who knows - maybe Rosas is on par with those guys and they have a kicker for the next decade.
RE: We are screwed with an unproven kicker  
annexOPR : 7/21/2017 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13534188 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Let's just go for it on 4th down...


empty backfield:

Marshall Shepard OL Ellison Engram Odell

because why the ffff not

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