NFT: Name who you think are the best songwriters of the R& R era?

In comment 13533384 Bill2 said:

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but: Smokey Robinson Holland Dozier Holland Stevie Wonder Ray Charles Issac Hayes Curtis Mayfield

Yup, Bill. And Marvin Gaye too.

In comment 13533378 tommy boy said:

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waits

+1

In comment 13533378 tommy boy said:

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waits

Can't believe it took til post 20

Carol King and Gerry Goffin wrote many solid rock and roll songs together, and Carol King wrote some great ones after they split up. They rate number one in my book.

I'd also go with Brian Wilson.

And I really like some of the material that Jackie deShannon wrote.

They aren't rock and roll, but Chuck Cochran and Harland Howard wrote some awesome material, some of which did cross over to the Top 40 charts.

and maybe expand from R&R to other forms:

Jeff Tweedy
Beck
Morrissey
Mick Jones/Joe Strummer (not exactly modern)
Win Butler (Arcade fire)
Neal Pert (not exactly modern)
Rivers Cuomo (peaked early, but some good stuff)

Jamie Robbie Robertson

for me

How about Van Morrison? Many hits over the years of course. Writes great horn section charts. Wrote and performed Astral Weeks which some people claim as one of the greatest albums of the era.

add Frank Black/Black Francis and Frank Zappa.

In comment 13533413 TJ said:

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How about Van Morrison? Many hits over the years of course. Writes great horn section charts. Wrote and performed Astral Weeks which some people claim as one of the greatest albums of the era.

John Prine = my wife's musical obsession.

Did you know...he's worth $310M????

Dylan
Dylan
Bruce
Steinman
Dylan

In comment 13533417 feelflows said:

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In comment 13533413 TJ said: Quote: How about Van Morrison? Many hits over the years of course. Writes great horn section charts. Wrote and performed Astral Weeks which some people claim as one of the greatest albums of the era. John Prine = my wife's musical obsession. Did you know...he's worth $310M????

Holy shit I had no idea. Not bad for a singing mailman

In comment 13533348 Ira said:

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belong - also Phil Spector in spite of depravity.

Great thing about Brian Wilson is that there is a whole crapload of songs he's written that nobody hears?

Everyone stops at "Pet Sounds".. but there are some GREAT Beach Boys albums that are hardly listened to:

Friends
20/20
Sunflower
Surf's Up
Love You

and of course Smile

He evolves into a more serious songwriter, and it's tremendous stuff.

John Hiatt
Robert Earl Keen
Steve Earle
Steve Goodman

In comment 13533429 TJ said:

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In comment 13533417 feelflows said: Quote: In comment 13533413 TJ said: Quote: How about Van Morrison? Many hits over the years of course. Writes great horn section charts. Wrote and performed Astral Weeks which some people claim as one of the greatest albums of the era. John Prine = my wife's musical obsession. Did you know...he's worth $310M???? Holy shit I had no idea. Not bad for a singing mailman

yep.. songwriting, touring and owning his own label.

personally, he bores the crap outta me. BUT.. my wife loves his music, so he's OK in my book.

Mark Sandman of Morphine, an overlooked genius

a wife could have than John Prine.

I have the opposite problem. It's hard for me to listen to Prine if my wife is around. Too many lyrics like "raped by Dobbin's dog.. pinned up against a log", for my wife's tastes.

Graham Parker.

I liked Morphine's sound. Too bad Sandman is long gone.

In comment 13533456 Beezer said:

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Graham Parker.

Love both of those references. Graham Parker- the Phil Simms of Rock and Roll.

In comment 13533356 Ira said:

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.

lol Enya

Dylan
Beatles
velvet underground
the band

In comment 13533406 pjcas18 said:

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and maybe expand from R&R to other forms: Jeff Tweedy Beck Morrissey Mick Jones/Joe Strummer (not exactly modern) Win Butler (Arcade fire) Neal Pert (not exactly modern) Rivers Cuomo (peaked early, but some good stuff)

Good call on Tweedy. Yorke and Radiohead.

In comment 13533447 Greg from LI said:

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Mark Sandman of Morphine, an overlooked genius

A great band with maybe the wierdest instrumentation I can think of. Percussion, Bari Sax, and some kind of custom made guitar/bass thing that Sandman played. Never got to see them play Sandman died less than a year after I discovered them.

As I think was Tom Petty. Probably not top 5, but when guys are that good, it's just nitpicking.

OP's list was very good, though you have to include McCartney and just based on output, I'd include Neil Young. Sorry to both Taylor and Mitchell.

My list ends up without People like Leonard Cohen which obviously is malfeasance. Couldn't consider guys like Bert Bacharach, Elton John, Holland/Dozier and to a lesser extent Carol King because theoretically they only contributed 50% or so to the songs they created.

Jason Isbell is a younger guy who I think may end up with quite a catalog as is John Mayer.

James McMurtry is a relative unknown, but a brilliant lyricist who can write a song as good as anybody.

My own brother writes quality songs. 250 or so to date. Signed to Columbia back in '72 with Springsteen, JP suffered from mental illness and never made it as a touring pro or a business man. Fortunately, since the advent of DAWs in the 90's he's been able to work and document much of his creation on indie-produced no budget records. Here's the title track from his most recent, released just last summer.


Touch - ( New Window )

Two string bass, one string bass, "basitar"....he was one of a kind, and his songs are amazing.

.

The Doors (Jim Morrison)
Jimi Hendrix
Zepp
Queen
GNR

is one of my favorites. I find The Clash to always be underrated.

who wrote the lyrics. But that's a good call.

Lennon/McCartney
Ian Anderson
Kerry Livgren
Waters/Gilmour
Lee/Lifeson/Peart

of songwriters who comes close to the early genius these guys displayed. I can't think of any who have been so outstanding by age 30 or so (arbitrary cutoff, but think of what The Beatles, Paul Simon, Joni and many of the others we've listed had produced by that age. Incredible!

In comment 13533674 yatqb said:

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of songwriters who comes close to the early genius these guys displayed. I can't think of any who have been so outstanding by age 30 or so (arbitrary cutoff, but think of what The Beatles, Paul Simon, Joni and many of the others we've listed had produced by that age. Incredible!

I am sure this is unpopular and part of it is because my mother was a huge Beatles fan, so I swore them off for a long time. Beatles, Elvis, John Denver, James Taylor, Billy Joel, that whole era.

But, were any of the Beatles great songwriters as Beatles? I mean epicly great? Like all-time great? I think they're horribly overrated (as a band) as songwriters.

If you want catchy lyrics and melodies sure, but poignant, thoughtful lyrics Dylan runs laps around the Beatles.

I think Lennon's later solo stuff far outweighs anything he did as a Beatle lyrically and while McCartney and Harrison also had solo success their solo catalogs aren't even remotely Dylan-esque.

Or even the guys I named; solo Harrison vs. Tweedy or Strummer or even Neal Peart. I'd put Spirit of Radio or The Trees up against anything George Harrison wrote and Peart/Rush have a healthy catalog.

I think Jagger/Richards is also far more compelling than any of the Beatles - solo or as Beatles.

so anyway, the Beatles success and beatle-mania I don't consider due to songwriting. Unless you want a pop song.

In comment 13533674 yatqb said:

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of songwriters who comes close to the early genius these guys displayed. I can't think of any who have been so outstanding by age 30 or so (arbitrary cutoff, but think of what The Beatles, Paul Simon, Joni and many of the others we've listed had produced by that age. Incredible!

No one is going to have clout. But I like Benjamin Booker. Two albums of quality music so far. John Legend is up there with all time soul singer songwriters.

not mentioned. He wrote for many others...Clapton, etc. Tom Petty quite good too.

In comment 13533674 yatqb said:

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of songwriters who comes close to the early genius these guys displayed. I can't think of any who have been so outstanding by age 30 or so (arbitrary cutoff, but think of what The Beatles, Paul Simon, Joni and many of the others we've listed had produced by that age. Incredible!

For me, the only modern songwriter that I really like is Steven Wilson. His solo albums the last several years have been just what I love about music. He's got a new one dropping in just a few weeks. I can't wait. :)

include:

Billy Joe Shaver
Jason Isbell
Tom Petty (not as deep as some of the greats, but consistently solid, catchy, sometimes quite poignant songs)

In comment 13533406 pjcas18 said:

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and maybe expand from R&R to other forms: Jeff Tweedy Beck Morrissey Mick Jones/Joe Strummer (not exactly modern) Win Butler (Arcade fire) Neal Pert (not exactly modern) Rivers Cuomo (peaked early, but some good stuff)

Good call w/Morrissey. Was listening to Viva Hate last week and geeking out on how he pics topics that are unique for rock songs and makes them work well.

In comment 13533666 SimpleMan said:

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is one of my favorites. I find The Clash to always be underrated.

+1000

Very influential band that is widely underrated. And an awesome live show.

In comment 13533811 Moondawg said:

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In comment 13533406 pjcas18 said: Quote: and maybe expand from R&R to other forms: Jeff Tweedy Beck Morrissey Mick Jones/Joe Strummer (not exactly modern) Win Butler (Arcade fire) Neal Pert (not exactly modern) Rivers Cuomo (peaked early, but some good stuff) Good call w/Morrissey. Was listening to Viva Hate last week and geeking out on how he pics topics that are unique for rock songs and makes them work well.

I loved that line of his from How soon is Now (Smiths) "I am the son and the heir of a shyness that is criminally vulgar"

never a fan of the goth/cure/smiths scene, but hard to not acknowledge Morrisey's songwriting chops (Johnny Marr contributed some, but mostly Morrissey).

In comment 13533406 pjcas18 said:

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and maybe expand from R&R to other forms: Jeff Tweedy Beck Morrissey Mick Jones/Joe Strummer (not exactly modern) Win Butler (Arcade fire) Neal Pert (not exactly modern) Rivers Cuomo (peaked early, but some good stuff)

I was going to mention Mick Jones who not only wrote/co-wrote all of Foreigner's songs, but also wrote songs for Billy Joel and Van Halen amongst others.

Jagger/ Richards is your Mt. Rushmore. Everyone else is far behind after those three, IMO. Some other greats of course, but those three are clearly at the top for me.

In comment 13533836 Eli Wilson said:

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In comment 13533406 pjcas18 said: Quote: and maybe expand from R&R to other forms: Jeff Tweedy Beck Morrissey Mick Jones/Joe Strummer (not exactly modern) Win Butler (Arcade fire) Neal Pert (not exactly modern) Rivers Cuomo (peaked early, but some good stuff) I was going to mention Mick Jones who not only wrote/co-wrote all of Foreigner's songs, but also wrote songs for Billy Joel and Van Halen amongst others.

Different Mick Jones. I meant the Mick Jones in the Clash who co-wrote or wrote many Clash songs and then formed Big Audio Dynamite.

In comment 13533844 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 13533836 Eli Wilson said: Quote: In comment 13533406 pjcas18 said: Quote: and maybe expand from R&R to other forms: Jeff Tweedy Beck Morrissey Mick Jones/Joe Strummer (not exactly modern) Win Butler (Arcade fire) Neal Pert (not exactly modern) Rivers Cuomo (peaked early, but some good stuff) I was going to mention Mick Jones who not only wrote/co-wrote all of Foreigner's songs, but also wrote songs for Billy Joel and Van Halen amongst others. Different Mick Jones. I meant the Mick Jones in the Clash who co-wrote or wrote many Clash songs and then formed Big Audio Dynamite.

Yeah - I realized that afterwards.

No love for Sammy Hagar?

has been around a long time, and is in her mid-50s, but I think she is one of the greatest songwriters still in her prime.

She is really super creative and no one adds so much authenticity and feeling into both the material and delivery.

I can't recommend her enough for those who are into the indy singer-songwriter genre. And the production and accompaniment on her albums are spectacular.

In comment 13534054 Mike in Marin said:

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has been around a long time, and is in her mid-50s, but I think she is one of the greatest songwriters still in her prime. She is really super creative and no one adds so much authenticity and feeling into both the material and delivery. I can't recommend her enough for those who are into the indy singer-songwriter genre. And the production and accompaniment on her albums are spectacular.

funny, I was listening to a couple of Til Tuesday albums on Monday. Always liked that band.

In comment 13534055 feelflows said:

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In comment 13534054 Mike in Marin said: Quote: has been around a long time, and is in her mid-50s, but I think she is one of the greatest songwriters still in her prime. She is really super creative and no one adds so much authenticity and feeling into both the material and delivery. I can't recommend her enough for those who are into the indy singer-songwriter genre. And the production and accompaniment on her albums are spectacular. funny, I was listening to a couple of Til Tuesday albums on Monday. Always liked that band.

a couple? didn't realize they had more than one.

Aimee Mann is the female voice on Rush's Time Stand Still, one of my favorite songs of theirs, always makes me kind of melancholy feeling about my kids growing up so fast and life moving so fast you don't stop and enjoy it enough.

In comment 13534055 feelflows said:

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In comment 13534054 Mike in Marin said: Quote: has been around a long time, and is in her mid-50s, but I think she is one of the greatest songwriters still in her prime. She is really super creative and no one adds so much authenticity and feeling into both the material and delivery. I can't recommend her enough for those who are into the indy singer-songwriter genre. And the production and accompaniment on her albums are spectacular. funny, I was listening to a couple of Til Tuesday albums on Monday. Always liked that band.

I never listen to them. I saw them play in a small gym at my college and remember Aimee, but I never think to go back and listen to them.

Her album "The Forgotten Arm" is probably my favorite album that I have listened to more than anything else the last year or two.

But I have almost all of them now and they are all great. The Magnolia soundtrack is also really fantastic. Save Me is on that one, along with a over of "One (Is the loneliest number) and a handful of other gems.

In comment 13533844 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 13533836 Eli Wilson said: Quote: In comment 13533406 pjcas18 said: Quote: and maybe expand from R&R to other forms: Jeff Tweedy Beck Morrissey Mick Jones/Joe Strummer (not exactly modern) Win Butler (Arcade fire) Neal Pert (not exactly modern) Rivers Cuomo (peaked early, but some good stuff) I was going to mention Mick Jones who not only wrote/co-wrote all of Foreigner's songs, but also wrote songs for Billy Joel and Van Halen amongst others. Different Mick Jones. I meant the Mick Jones in the Clash who co-wrote or wrote many Clash songs and then formed Big Audio Dynamite.

I do disagree with one thing you suggested above, that depth or some kind of importance (like Dylan) is required for great songwriting. Sure it is important as part of the picture. But music tracks our overall life, which is sometimes reflective, sometimes fun, sometimes melancholy, etc.