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| WEEHAWKEN, N.J. -- Summer break isn’t for everybody. New York Giants rookie quarterback Davis Webb and tight end Evan Engram have bypassed the beach for the gym and field. They've remained in New Jersey during the six-week break between minicamp and training camp, trying to get acclimated to an NFL offense and playbook. |
- BBI
this is both great and exciting news! I can't wait to see how these 2 develop!
- rational BBI
and Webb certainly has the time/work ethic/talent to develop into Eli's successor ... hope they both put it all together.
Ain't it the truth! This is great to hear, both certainly have the desire to be great, and that is half the battle.
I hope they eat dinner every night.
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As for Hoss, he had his one season in the sun.....
That's why it's hard to get too excited about the next qb after Eli....we just don't groom them....
and this is relevant because a lot of the same coaches and players are still here from ... 10+ years ago?
As for Hoss, he had his one season in the sun.....
That's why it's hard to get too excited about the next qb after Eli....we just don't groom them....
You're selling Hoss short (maybe because of the bad mustache)by saying he had "one season in the sun." The guy went on to be good QB in Oakland winning a playoff game there and almost knocking off the Bills a week later. He's a great example of a good back-up QB who was groomed by the Giants and turned into a successful QB. Someone might even throw Scott Brunner in there as another... well, Brunner "kind of was"...
Id be ok if he took a break right now - its a loooong season.
Id be ok if he took a break right now - its a loooong season.
lol. this site really will find anything possible to worry about.
He knows his body best and maybe I'm worrying over nothing, but the body needs rest and his is not getting a lot of it. I just don't want him to hit that 'rookie wall' late in the season... or worse, earlier in the season than usual because he's been working out non-stop since last summer.
But I can't lie... it's nice to read stories like this.
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Im glad these guys have that insane work ethic but i am also wary of Engram in particular hittoing the rookie wall. We will need him in 24 games this year - thats 2 college football seasons in a much more violent league.
Id be ok if he took a break right now - its a loooong season.
lol. this site really will find anything possible to worry about.
That's funny that we were both thinking the same thing. But I actually agree with area on this one.
he's putting in the work ... I'm pretty sure the coaches will give him a Wednesday off now and then when he's a little "tired". this is also the advantage of being a 22 year old in peak physical condition ... you don't get tired.
he's putting in the work ... I'm pretty sure the coaches will give him a Wednesday off now and then when he's a little "tired". this is also the advantage of being a 22 year old in peak physical condition ... you don't get tired.
No there wouldn't.... and if there were they'd sound silly. I don't see anyone making that claim about Tomlinson for instance.
he's putting in the work ... I'm pretty sure the coaches will give him a Wednesday off now and then when he's a little "tired". this is also the advantage of being a 22 year old in peak physical condition ... you don't get tired.
Actually, the hypocrisy is this:
- Webb & Engram put extra work in: "This is awesome. What great competitors. Engram is going to be a beast in 2017 and Webb is the future after Eli."
- Beckham and Vernon (or any other Giant over the years) skip OTAs: "So what? They don't need it."
You see the same with the PFF threads. PFF says something good about the Giants and it's a valuable resource. PFF says something negative and it's poor methodology from stat geeks that wouldn't know a football if you stood them five feet away from a running JUGS machine.
Rookies learning a new offense absolutely do.
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there'd be a mob on here proclaiming him a "diva", bust, or some other BS
he's putting in the work ... I'm pretty sure the coaches will give him a Wednesday off now and then when he's a little "tired". this is also the advantage of being a 22 year old in peak physical condition ... you don't get tired.
Actually, the hypocrisy is this:
- Webb & Engram put extra work in: "This is awesome. What great competitors. Engram is going to be a beast in 2017 and Webb is the future after Eli."
- Beckham and Vernon (or any other Giant over the years) skip OTAs: "So what? They don't need it."
You see the same with the PFF threads. PFF says something good about the Giants and it's a valuable resource. PFF says something negative and it's poor methodology from stat geeks that wouldn't know a football if you stood them five feet away from a running JUGS machine.
Actually... just speaking for myself... the HUGE difference is that Beckham and Vernon are not only vets (as opposed to two rookies who have experienced an NFL season)... but also two upper echelon players who have already proven themselves.
In other words... they don't NEED it.
Rookies learning a new offense absolutely do.
On this we agree.
LOL!
Ok Terps... apples to oranges and all that jazz... but whatever.
But there are plenty of vets there to assist them with whatever the rooks need. You think Engram is going to get something from OBJ that he can't get from a guy like Marshall or Shep? You think Avery Moss can't something out of JPP that he could only get out of Vernon?
You seem to be the only person who's making such a big deal about this.
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So they can work with the fucking vets!
But there are plenty of vets there to assist them with whatever the rooks need. You think Engram is going to get something from OBJ that he can't get from a guy like Marshall or Shep? You think Avery Moss can't something out of JPP that he could only get out of Vernon?
You seem to be the only person who's making such a big deal about this.
Those guys are supposed to be the best players on the team! Yes, I do think the young guys could get something from them.
But that's not the point I'm making, because Beckham and Vernon are not the first guys to skip OTAs and they won't be the last. The point I'm making is about BBI posters that pick and choose between the stories, media tidbits, and analysis in hugely subjective ways and making us all collectively dumber as followers of the sport.
It's been acute this offseason...posters have been making outlandish claims and in some cases guarantees that this team is going to be a monster this year while completely overlooking the flaws. You'd think this is the '85 Bears all over again.
As for Hoss, he had his one season in the sun.....
That's why it's hard to get too excited about the next qb after Eli....we just don't groom them....
Ok, go through the rest of the league and give me other coaching staffs that develop backups? You may find a backup here or there but there aren't 32 good QBs in the league ever so ...
If you say the Patriots then I will counter with the fact that it is more hype/system than anything else. Cassel amd others never really did much outside of NE. Guys like Matt Flynn had one great game that got them paid and they sucked.
So, saying that we don't develop backup QBs at least puts us in the middle of the pack of the NFL.
Your hatred for Beckham exceeds any fan's support of Beckham on this site. Try to find a new hobby. You'd be happier.
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there'd be a mob on here proclaiming him a "diva", bust, or some other BS
he's putting in the work ... I'm pretty sure the coaches will give him a Wednesday off now and then when he's a little "tired". this is also the advantage of being a 22 year old in peak physical condition ... you don't get tired.
Actually, the hypocrisy is this:
- Webb & Engram put extra work in: "This is awesome. What great competitors. Engram is going to be a beast in 2017 and Webb is the future after Eli."
- Beckham and Vernon (or any other Giant over the years) skip OTAs: "So what? They don't need it."
You see the same with the PFF threads. PFF says something good about the Giants and it's a valuable resource. PFF says something negative and it's poor methodology from stat geeks that wouldn't know a football if you stood them five feet away from a running JUGS machine.
You tell me my act is tired and look at you go on and on and on and on about this...
You really don't see the difference between two established NFL players who have been playing at a high level for years already and 2 guys who have never played a down in this league and have to learn to adjust to the pro game?
I'd like to think you're a little smarter than this.
Your hatred for Beckham exceeds any fan's support of Beckham on this site. Try to find a new hobby. You'd be happier.
I'm plenty happy. You think I'm losing any sleep over Odell Beckham?
And even though my initial point wasn't about Beckham I'll respond about Beckham: what if he'd been hurt working out on his own? It seems to me that would have been just as if not more likely than had he been with the Giants. Besides if that's how you feel, then why should any of the veterans show up? Why should Eli Manning, or Damon Harrison, or Janoris Jenkins show up? Why should Landon Collins or DRC? What about JPP? They were all every bit as good as Beckham and Vernon in 2016...why did they attend OTAs? After all, they didn't need them.
The thing with Beckham's fanboys is that they view things the same way as Beckham does: it's all about Beckham first and the team second. It doesn't occur to his fanboys that hey, we've got three new critical starters in the passing game coming in (Marshall, Engram, & Ellison)...it might be good for the team if Beckham is there to help lay the groundwork for the 2017 prep work over the next few months. Instead we have to watch a 10 second video of him "working with" that douchebag Cris Carter and hear about how that's just as good. It isn't just as good, because Cris Carter doesn't play or coach for the Giants.
The same 100% applies to Vernon too. It's almost worse in his case because he just got an inflated contract that you'd think would spur him to take a leadership role on the team. We just drafted a promising prospect at his position that surely would benefit from his insight.
Again, Eli Manning has accomplished more than Beckham and Vernon combined and multiplied by ten...why is he at OTA's?
That's the point though... they ALL had the choice to not be there if they chose not to and as long as they perform on Sundays it's all good with me.
You keep calling him a bad teammate and yet his teammates love him. But I guess you know best.
Really Terps... you came in making a poor comparison and now gone into another Beckham rant (for lack of a better word) because you as an opening. We get it... you're not a Beckham fan. When/if he becomes an all-time great and HOFer I expect you to say 'Pfttt... imagine if he went to OTAs during some of those off-seasons!'.
DRC missed at least the beginning of OTA's last year - it's so insignificant that I honestly don't even remember if he ever showed up or when he showed up.
The result? He was a key cog in one of the best defenses in football.
Pretty sure it made zero difference.
Again, Eli Manning has accomplished more than Beckham and Vernon combined and multiplied by ten...why is he at OTA's?
Because Eli Manning is the QB and needs to establish a rapport with guys like Engram, Marshall, et al.
He already has that with Beckham.
Again, you're comparing completely different situations and trying to draw them up as equals when they aren't.
QB's don't skip OTA's. When was the last time a QB didn't attend OTA's?
Also, not everybody is a leader so they shouldn't be judged like that. Vernon works his ass off and when it is time to be here he puts in extra work before and after practice AFTER he got paid. He and JPP set the tone for our defense that got others on board.
You also pass judgments based on information that is written. Not everything these players do is in print. There is way more that goes on that we don't hear about. The number one thing you can use for a resource is how the players feel about each other and work together and there has never been anything to doubt either player based on that. They have 100% support drom thwir teammates. So, I think their teammates' opinions hold way more weight than your idealistic views of who they should be, what they should do, and how they should act.
And, yes, you brought up Beckham when nobody else did and called a bunch of people hypocrites. The funny thing is that you are the hypocrite. You never give him credit. You just continually beat him down because you don't agree with the things he does but never give him credit when credit is due. You bring him up ALL THE TIME when others really don't give a shit. You make it a big deal and others try to point out it isn't a big deal.
You have turned into such a troll on this site. You are like a caricature of yourself. I used to love reading your posts. Yes, you had a very contrarian viewpoint on a lot of topics and you always made valid arguments even if I didn't agree with it. Your obsession, yes obsession, is just insane. Give it a rest.
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"You also pass judgments based on information that is written."
...and then you link a written article.
Wow.
"You also pass judgments based on information that is written."
...and then you link a written article.
I am not passing judgment. I giving you evidence that counteracts your statements. I am not the one that is saying it is good or bad. I am saying Beckham not showing up for mandatory stuff is inconsequential whereas you are all up his ass over it. So, if you are going to criticise Beckham for some of the negative stuff and call us hypocrites then you need ro own up to the positive stuff too. You cannot have it both ways like you think we are doing. Do you get it now?
I mean c'mon man...
Yet, somehow Terps has to make it about Beckham and Vernon not attending OTAs.
Unbelievable.
Because they decided to.
It's really as simple as that.
Damon Harrison said himself that he had absolutely no issue with Odell or Vernon not being there. Certain players simply prefer to train and work on their own or with their own guys if given the choice. It doesn't mean they're bad teammates or don't care about the team.
You are massively reaching to try and make it like Beckham and Vernon should be there mentoring young players or that all of this "groundwork" is laid in OTA's. That's what position coaches are for. There's nothing that can only occur in OTA's but not in training camp when it comes to this.
And this idea that Beckham is only about Beckham is really just your own silly narrative that holds little weight. If you don't recall, he had Shepard under his wing throughout all of camp last year and took a legitimate interest in his development and I'm sure he's going to do the same thing this year.
What about Vernon? His contract dwarfs Harrison's.
From your keyboard to the football gods' ears! Man, that would be pretty sweet!
Get over it already.
Lol, how bout you take a deep breath & give us all a break.
You're weird on this one terps. You hate certain players based solely on the money they make or will make and that player's personality or aura. It's a shame the money side of sports has soiled the perception or expectations of so many fans.
I remember the days of LT sleeping through meetings and most nyg fans found (find) it amusing. Now Beckham misses some voluntary flag football practice session in MAY and fans get the vapors. Vernon too. Because Vernon has a lot of explaining to do based on last year's effort? He played most of the season with a shattered hand. Played damn well too. He's garbage. He makes too much money i guess.
At least Beckham is the best wr in football or top three at the least. Could be worse. For all you fans struggling to watch Beckham in nyg blue try all I can say is the guy is a lightning bolt of talent who really really really wants to win. What's not to like...
So they'd take their free time and retreat to a cloister or someplace with stones for wallboard, lanterns for bulbs and a hole over the moat for a bathroom.
" Father Tuck, Pray tell How many angels do you think can fit on the tip of that pin"?
Father Tuck ..."what pin, oh that pin, Id say about 25 maybe 26 in winter".
"Sir, you are wrong, a pin like that should hold not less than 42 angels"......
"Wrong, you don't know a damn thing about angels and pins".....Excuse me for the profanity but you get me soooo mad."
LOL BBI. Not only did you derail this thread, but some of you are worried about our TE "hitting the wall" because he is running a few routs and trying to learn the playbook with his fellow teammate on their own. You guys are funny.
There is no downside of this at all.
Jimmy Googs : 6:41 am : link : reply
to win starting jobs this year...
make it stop!
LOL BBI. Not only did you derail this thread, but some of you are worried about our TE "hitting the wall" because he is running a few routs and trying to learn the playbook with his fellow teammate on their own. You guys are funny.
There is no downside of this at all.
It's not a matter of him getting his the physical rest but the mental as well. Again, Webb I'm not worried about... this isn't really even a huge deal to me for Engram to be honest... but I recently read a short article from a rookie who said that he didn't believe in the 'rookie wall'... until he suddenly started feeling fatigued, physically and mentally, around Week 12 of last season. Some players don't experience it, some do. But I wouldn't have any issue if Webb and Engram (in particular Engram) took off during this time and let his body and brain get ready for what will be a very trying year for him.
I don't see why this is such a far-fetched idea nor why is it something that really needs to be argued over. These guys aren't machines and while it's nice to hear about their dedication, they (again, really just talking about Engram here) may be hurting themselves in the long run. Hopefully I'm wrong... and if I am I'll be very happy to be wrong... but I see nothing wrong to suggest that they take a bit of a break. They deserve it.
I'm sorry, it really just blows my mind when people see something that I can only conceive as a "positive" - and yet somehow BBI finds a way.
and if you're still crying about Odell's voluntary OTAs ... find a new team to root for.
The Rookie wall has to do with the riggers of Training camp, games, and weekly practice, etc.
Stop acting like these are little kids who can't handle a little homework.
He knows his body best and maybe I'm worrying over nothing, but the body needs rest and his is not getting a lot of it. I just don't want him to hit that 'rookie wall' late in the season... or worse, earlier in the season than usual because he's been working out non-stop since last summer.
But I can't lie... it's nice to read stories like this.
Not sure that you aren't being a little bit too nervous about Engram. He's a WR/TE. He's not banging around. Running patterns is going to be huge in the NFL. As long as he rests approroately this isn't a worry for me.
This team should have a legit shot at making serious noise this year w kids like this along w the insane D the Giants field
And I have no idea if Webb can play at this level but if he cannot it will not be for lack of work ethic. He's impressive in that regard.
You guys don't feel he needs the rest... ok. I don't think it would hurt if he does get a little rest. Relax. It's no big deal.
And I never had an issue with OBJ missing OTAs annex. Take a breath man. You guys are really overreacting to a simple opinion.
With fewer practice and on-field hours now, it's probably not a huge deal to get some burn on the field. But being fresh physically for the beginning of team activities is a huge plus.
The best part in this is the mental reps and boning up the playbook for 2 guys who critically need that to contribute this year.
Jeez. Let the guy live.
With fewer practice and on-field hours now, it's probably not a huge deal to get some burn on the field. But being fresh physically for the beginning of team activities is a huge plus.
The best part in this is the mental reps and boning up the playbook for 2 guys who critically need that to contribute this year.
christian, that's all I'm saying and I agree with you that with less on field practice time this is probably not a big deal. I agree with that. I'm just saying that if I were to give them advice it would be that they would chill out a little bit before the grind of training camp and the season starts. That's all. If they don't feel they need it... more power to them.
I'm fine with being completely wrong about this. Time will tell. But to come at me as if suggesting a little rest is 'way off base'... or the worst idea that's ever been posted on this board... or make it look like I'm looking for the slightest thing to complain about... that's overreacting a litle bit. I don't think the saying a little rest wouldn't hurt is such an outlandish statement.
I'm enjoying reading about them putting in the extra work just as much as everyone else... it's nice to read. But if they were my kid, I might just suggest that they may want to rest their bodies a bit before training camp comes up and if they take the advice cool... if not, also cool.
Jeez. Let the guy live.
No! Burn him!
I hear you Keith... and again, you may be right. I'm really not arguing with you or anyone else about this because 1) you may be right and 2) it won't be proven until late in the season if it happens at all.
But... and again, I'm talking more about TE than the QB here... unlike Engram, you didn't play a full college football season blocking guys 50 lbs heavier than you...immediately start training to participate in the most important interview you may ever have in your life and putting your body in top condition for it... participating in said interview... then training for pro days... participating in said pro days... going to mini-camps and then shortly after that you have training camp and the regular season (and hopefully post season).
You played basketball. A lot of basketball... but basketball. Not even pro. And you probably were as that as you are in FF... which is not good (yes, trash talk season has began!). Not really the same thing playa.
But again... I don't want to make it seem like I'm trying to really argue about this. There's no point. Again, I do like reading and am enjoying hearing about the extra work they're putting in. I just would suggest they take off a few weeks. Again, would be happy to be wrong and the extra work pays off and they're both (in particular Engram) fine throughout the season.
I'm just sayin... you FF skills are butt.
You guys don't feel he needs the rest... ok. I don't think it would hurt if he does get a little rest. Relax. It's no big deal.
And I never had an issue with OBJ missing OTAs annex. Take a breath man. You guys are really overreacting to a simple opinion.
that wasn't directed towards you ... and I'm quite relaxed - working from home, done for a nice 3 day weekend.
engram is running routes, staying in shape, and getting on the same page with a QB who could be Eli's successor ... these are nothing but positive reports.
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Ok... not that big a deal guys.
You guys don't feel he needs the rest... ok. I don't think it would hurt if he does get a little rest. Relax. It's no big deal.
And I never had an issue with OBJ missing OTAs annex. Take a breath man. You guys are really overreacting to a simple opinion.
that wasn't directed towards you ... and I'm quite relaxed - working from home, done for a nice 3 day weekend.
engram is running routes, staying in shape, and getting on the same page with a QB who could be Eli's successor ... these are nothing but positive reports.
I agree. I'm not trying to put a negative spin on this. It may appear that I am but I'm not. I'm just saying that if I were to give them some advice, it'd be to rest a little. That's all. I don't see why this has to be an argument.... or even a disagreement... particularly when I've repeatedly said that I agree with you guys... that it's nice to read this kind of dedication from the future of this franchise.
imagine this place if Engram was instead "poppin bottles" in south beach on Instagram or something ... I prefer him lifting weights, running routes, and learning the offense with his potential new QB. I'm also pretty sure the team trainers/ doctors [the people who actually have to worry about this] are monitoring their workloads.
happy Friday!
imagine this place if Engram was instead "poppin bottles" in south beach on Instagram or something ... I prefer him lifting weights, running routes, and learning the offense with his potential new QB. I'm also pretty sure the team trainers/ doctors [the people who actually have to worry about this] are monitoring their workloads.
happy Friday!
Ok.
Happy Friday to you too!
"To help familiarize himself with the calls, Webb has invited some of his fellow rookies, including sixth-round pick Adam Bisnowaty and fourth-round pick Wayne Gallman, to his apartment to read him plays. Webb turns his back to them and tries to visualize it."
- in a good way.
Second - amazing how debates go on BBI!