I mean...this is bad even for Florida. Apparently they don't have any bystander laws down there that compels people to act if they see another person in trouble. Teens laugh while recording man drowning - ( New Window )
The consequences are just unfathomable. What happens when the State compels me to risk my own life to save another? Or if while following a Bystander law, I make the situation considerably worse, despite trying to be a law abiding citizen. Am I now in the circle of potential defendants?
It's awful that the man drowned, it's horrible that these little shits are so vile they sat and filmed and they should have probably helped. Their indifference does not make them pitiable. But the desire to create a victim and a perp is too strong here.
It's a shame they'd rather get likes and comments for a drowning death than becoming heroes by saving the man's life.
If the law compelled people to at least attempt to call 911 would that be an undue hardship?
That's a pretty difficult concept to put into practice. What if no phone is available or I don't know where one is? What if I'm geographically close but unaware of the distress? What satisfies an attempt to call 911? How soon after the realization of the situation do I have to contact 911? Contemporaneously? Within 20 minutes? ASAP defined by what? If I walk to the phone, am I liable for not running? What if it's an ongoing situation and you may have to put yourself in harm's way to attempt that call...Etc. etc. etc. you get the idea.
They seemed to have been searching for some form of negligence in this case, but you can only be negligent when you owe a duty of care towards another person. We should want that to be consensual rather than coerced.
In my opinion, it's just a really dangerous concept that someone else can trigger an obligation on my part, merely for being in the vicinity of their misfortune. This is obviously not the moral argument.
Though I do agree with the concept, that how we use technology, and more importantly, how parents let their kids get wrapped up in, become dependent on and use that technology affects the development of personality and morality. I don't think it's as much the tech itself, or even the violent/sexual images bombarded thru the tech - even more, it's the general loss of morals as important to society as a whole. There's likely many causes/reasons, including the way kids now are raised to be special snowflakes who are always right in their own personal space bubble, and deserve an award for every 'accomplishment'. No wonder they grow up to expect everyone to praise them constantly and need rewards just to do everyday tasks. There's no real concept of the greater good anymore - our society and culture is mainly focused on the individual. I'd guess these kids reaction when questioned was along the lines of 'We didn't tell him to go swimming, it's his own fault, we're not responsible', and no despite recording it on a phone, no one thought to call for help. It's terrible, and the general attitude of me-first has always existed, but it's extremely pervasive now in our celebrity obsessed look at me all the time culture. They should have at least called 911 if they didn't plan on helping...
Altho I also agree with many others who are not in favor of the good Samaritan laws. I believe people should always try to help others in trouble, no matter how serious or minor. However, I'm not in favor of a law compelling people to do so. I don't think you can legislate people to be 'good' persons. It's similar to the types of laws for anti-hate of certain groups - like a law requiring everyone to use the preferred pronoun of a trans person. Sure, we should all be respectful and refer to a person by their preference. No, I don't believe that should be required. It's a big leap from making a law against an action, to making a law requiring an action.
If too political no problem if mods delete with my apologies.
Though I do agree with the concept, that how we use technology, and more importantly, how parents let their kids get wrapped up in, become dependent on and use that technology affects the development of personality and morality. I don't think it's as much the tech itself, or even the violent/sexual images bombarded thru the tech - even more, it's the general loss of morals as important to society as a whole. There's likely many causes/reasons, including the way kids now are raised to be special snowflakes who are always right in their own personal space bubble, and deserve an award for every 'accomplishment'. No wonder they grow up to expect everyone to praise them constantly and need rewards just to do everyday tasks. There's no real concept of the greater good anymore - our society and culture is mainly focused on the individual. I'd guess these kids reaction when questioned was along the lines of 'We didn't tell him to go swimming, it's his own fault, we're not responsible', and no despite recording it on a phone, no one thought to call for help. It's terrible, and the general attitude of me-first has always existed, but it's extremely pervasive now in our celebrity obsessed look at me all the time culture. They should have at least called 911 if they didn't plan on helping...
Altho I also agree with many others who are not in favor of the good Samaritan laws. I believe people should always try to help others in trouble, no matter how serious or minor. However, I'm not in favor of a law compelling people to do so. I don't think you can legislate people to be 'good' persons. It's similar to the types of laws for anti-hate of certain groups - like a law requiring everyone to use the preferred pronoun of a trans person. Sure, we should all be respectful and refer to a person by their preference. No, I don't believe that should be required. It's a big leap from making a law against an action, to making a law requiring an action.
If too political no problem if mods delete with my apologies.
I agree. The technology itself isn't to blame, just because it exists.
I like technology, hell, I'm using it to post right now on BBI and other sites/forums of hobbies I frequent. I buy and sell on Ebay all the time. I learn all kinds of cool stuff. It's great, and I don't hate it for existing.
Now, the other side, I have a 6 year old and a 2 year old, and I'm terrified of technology when it comes to them. Cyberbullying, Blue Whale suicide shit, sexting.... That scares me as a parent, and I'm going to do my due diligence and then some, but I know I can't/won't catch everything.
And say I appreciate all the good work Deej put in to try and derail this.
On the subject and all the discussion about the bystander laws: if you have the means to help, you should. I can't imagine a more black and white case of that here. Grey area aside, if the barest of minumim law were in place, these kids would have to face some sort of consequence.
This is a systemic failure on all levels: parents, schools, kids themselves. If there were ANY infrastructure available, I would hope this could have been prevented.
And say I appreciate all the good work Deej put in to try and derail this.
On the subject and all the discussion about the bystander laws: if you have the means to help, you should. I can't imagine a more black and white case of that here. Grey area aside, if the barest of minumim law were in place, these kids would have to face some sort of consequence.
This is a systemic failure on all levels: parents, schools, kids themselves. If there were ANY infrastructure available, I would hope this could have been prevented.
i agree about the failures you mentioned. I'm just against government forcing you to do stuff, even if it's to be a normal decent person.
And say I appreciate all the good work Deej put in to try and derail this.
On the subject and all the discussion about the bystander laws: if you have the means to help, you should. I can't imagine a more black and white case of that here. Grey area aside, if the barest of minumim law were in place, these kids would have to face some sort of consequence.
This is a systemic failure on all levels: parents, schools, kids themselves. If there were ANY infrastructure available, I would hope this could have been prevented.
i agree about the failures you mentioned. I'm just against government forcing you to do stuff, even if it's to be a normal decent person.
Bill
I agree with you. Except I can't fathom the lack of empathy from any of them.
Joking while watching someone die? I'm sure they would have each others back in a pinch, not.
If you buy that as an arguement - ridiculous. Never heard of marijuana giving people less empathy.
definitely not, but if they admit to smoking pot they implicate themselves in a crime. shortsighted and selfish definitely, but what would you expect from anyone lacking maturity
So you just wreck your car and eject your sister out the window and kill her.... and your first instinct afterwards is to not only find the phone and get back on it and talk to your "audience/followers" while you're showing your dead sister on the ground? That's some f-cked up shit right there, and you can't tell me technology doesn't drive our society, especially kids, towards that sort of behavior.
Quote:
Moments later, Obdulia Sanchez was on Instagram Live again, explaining what happened — and growing increasingly hysterical.
“Hey, everybody, if I go to f—— jail for life, you already know why,” she began, adjusting the camera so that it showed her younger sister, motionless and bleeding from the head.
“My sister is f—— dying. Look, I f—— love my sister to death. I don’t give a f—. Man, we about to die. This is the last thing I wanted to happen to us, but it just did. Jacqueline, please wake up.”
Another girl screamed in the background.
“I don’t f‑‑‑‑‑‑ care though,” Sanchez continued. “I’m a hold it down. I love you, rest in peace, sweetie. If you don’t survive, baby, I am so f‑‑‑‑‑‑ sorry. I did not mean to kill you, sweetie. Sweetie, I am f‑‑‑‑‑‑ sorry. Sweetie, please, wake up!”
Our society is nearly completely based on social media now. To turn a blind eye to that, and the effect it has on children, or think that it is the same as it ever was, is incredibly short sighted.
Quote:
The consequences are just unfathomable. What happens when the State compels me to risk my own life to save another? Or if while following a Bystander law, I make the situation considerably worse, despite trying to be a law abiding citizen. Am I now in the circle of potential defendants?
It's awful that the man drowned, it's horrible that these little shits are so vile they sat and filmed and they should have probably helped. Their indifference does not make them pitiable. But the desire to create a victim and a perp is too strong here.
It's a shame they'd rather get likes and comments for a drowning death than becoming heroes by saving the man's life.
If the law compelled people to at least attempt to call 911 would that be an undue hardship?
That's a pretty difficult concept to put into practice. What if no phone is available or I don't know where one is? What if I'm geographically close but unaware of the distress? What satisfies an attempt to call 911? How soon after the realization of the situation do I have to contact 911? Contemporaneously? Within 20 minutes? ASAP defined by what? If I walk to the phone, am I liable for not running? What if it's an ongoing situation and you may have to put yourself in harm's way to attempt that call...Etc. etc. etc. you get the idea.
They seemed to have been searching for some form of negligence in this case, but you can only be negligent when you owe a duty of care towards another person. We should want that to be consensual rather than coerced.
In my opinion, it's just a really dangerous concept that someone else can trigger an obligation on my part, merely for being in the vicinity of their misfortune. This is obviously not the moral argument.
Altho I also agree with many others who are not in favor of the good Samaritan laws. I believe people should always try to help others in trouble, no matter how serious or minor. However, I'm not in favor of a law compelling people to do so. I don't think you can legislate people to be 'good' persons. It's similar to the types of laws for anti-hate of certain groups - like a law requiring everyone to use the preferred pronoun of a trans person. Sure, we should all be respectful and refer to a person by their preference. No, I don't believe that should be required. It's a big leap from making a law against an action, to making a law requiring an action.
If too political no problem if mods delete with my apologies.
Altho I also agree with many others who are not in favor of the good Samaritan laws. I believe people should always try to help others in trouble, no matter how serious or minor. However, I'm not in favor of a law compelling people to do so. I don't think you can legislate people to be 'good' persons. It's similar to the types of laws for anti-hate of certain groups - like a law requiring everyone to use the preferred pronoun of a trans person. Sure, we should all be respectful and refer to a person by their preference. No, I don't believe that should be required. It's a big leap from making a law against an action, to making a law requiring an action.
If too political no problem if mods delete with my apologies.
I agree. The technology itself isn't to blame, just because it exists.
I like technology, hell, I'm using it to post right now on BBI and other sites/forums of hobbies I frequent. I buy and sell on Ebay all the time. I learn all kinds of cool stuff. It's great, and I don't hate it for existing.
Now, the other side, I have a 6 year old and a 2 year old, and I'm terrified of technology when it comes to them. Cyberbullying, Blue Whale suicide shit, sexting.... That scares me as a parent, and I'm going to do my due diligence and then some, but I know I can't/won't catch everything.
On the subject and all the discussion about the bystander laws: if you have the means to help, you should. I can't imagine a more black and white case of that here. Grey area aside, if the barest of minumim law were in place, these kids would have to face some sort of consequence.
This is a systemic failure on all levels: parents, schools, kids themselves. If there were ANY infrastructure available, I would hope this could have been prevented.
On the subject and all the discussion about the bystander laws: if you have the means to help, you should. I can't imagine a more black and white case of that here. Grey area aside, if the barest of minumim law were in place, these kids would have to face some sort of consequence.
This is a systemic failure on all levels: parents, schools, kids themselves. If there were ANY infrastructure available, I would hope this could have been prevented.
Quote:
And say I appreciate all the good work Deej put in to try and derail this.
On the subject and all the discussion about the bystander laws: if you have the means to help, you should. I can't imagine a more black and white case of that here. Grey area aside, if the barest of minumim law were in place, these kids would have to face some sort of consequence.
This is a systemic failure on all levels: parents, schools, kids themselves. If there were ANY infrastructure available, I would hope this could have been prevented.
i agree about the failures you mentioned. I'm just against government forcing you to do stuff, even if it's to be a normal decent person.
Bill
I agree with you. Except I can't fathom the lack of empathy from any of them.
Joking while watching someone die? I'm sure they would have each others back in a pinch, not.
definitely not, but if they admit to smoking pot they implicate themselves in a crime. shortsighted and selfish definitely, but what would you expect from anyone lacking maturity
Link - ( New Window )
“Hey, everybody, if I go to f—— jail for life, you already know why,” she began, adjusting the camera so that it showed her younger sister, motionless and bleeding from the head.
“My sister is f—— dying. Look, I f—— love my sister to death. I don’t give a f—. Man, we about to die. This is the last thing I wanted to happen to us, but it just did. Jacqueline, please wake up.”
Another girl screamed in the background.
“I don’t f‑‑‑‑‑‑ care though,” Sanchez continued. “I’m a hold it down. I love you, rest in peace, sweetie. If you don’t survive, baby, I am so f‑‑‑‑‑‑ sorry. I did not mean to kill you, sweetie. Sweetie, I am f‑‑‑‑‑‑ sorry. Sweetie, please, wake up!”
Our society is nearly completely based on social media now. To turn a blind eye to that, and the effect it has on children, or think that it is the same as it ever was, is incredibly short sighted.
Link - ( New Window )
I blame the schools.