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Kyrie Irving asked the Cavaliers to trade him in a meeting last week, according to @WindhorstESPN.
They apparently are close but I guess he likes the city as well. They did engage the Bulls but there was no match and then Butler was traded. Chicago is an odd choice however. I guess he saw Butler as a superstar but one that wouldn't take his shine.
Last weekend at a basketball camp in Latvia attended by about 250 children, one youngster asked Porzingis in his native tongue why he wouldn’t abandon New York, and Porzingis sounded as if he’s committed for the long haul.
According to an English translation obtained by The Post, Porzingis answered:
“I feel that it is the best place to win. And if you win in New York, you are king. For the last two years, I have had so many positive emotions here that this is where I want to stay and that this is where I want to win.”
Headlines, wolves stars recruiting kyrie Irving. They literally have nothing to trade for him unless they trade Wiggins, which would make 0 sense with Teague at PG
Over next year's first rounder? That's absolutely the wrong move. You don't deal today's talent for tomorrow's talent especially when you factor in that frank was a consensus top ten pick in a deep draft. You're likely not picking top ten next year and the 2018 draft isn't nearly as deep.
You're gonna have to give to get irvin. I'm not 100% in love with him but I'd deal a future first and melo in a heartbeat. And I'd most definitely deal the pick over Willy or frank.
Melo plus one and filler might be a pipe dream but i just don't know if it's worth it to trade melo plus two for Irvin. Even though the book might say it's fair I'm not sure the knicks can afford to give that much.
You can sell it if the knicks are building around Irvin, KP, frank, hardaway and Gomez with no 2018 pick. It might not be ideal but at least it's something to work with. Can't give up Frank or Gomez and a quality pick.
I also don't think it's likely the knicks are super high lottery picking next even if they didn't land Irvin. They will be close to or at the 30 win mark most likely. If they land Irvin maybe 40. I'd be ok dealing the 12th pick or so. And it could be high teens.
Frank, WH, and first rounders. Although i wouldnt want to trade Frank and WH, but any other combo. Id like to do something like top 3 protect the 2018 pick. You are replacing one of those two assets with Kyrie Irving which is a damn good player. So your really only giving up one other asset to get a player of Kyrie's caliber and his contract isnt even that bad (yet). If KP progresses like we hope he does I think you can def build around KP/Irving and i think if a star hits the market you might be able to get into the convo (again assuming KP progresses).
Been a Knick fan long enough to know how this goes. Fans approve every move that involves a "star name" regardless of the cost. They could deal Melo 2018, 2020, 2022 and people on here would still support the move. 100% fact
You have such a weird stance on this and are firmly in the minority.
It's one thing to mortgage the future for a star that will get them nowhere. Irving is 25. He is only getting better and could be a Knick for the next decade.
I'm not trying to to play contrarian or troll when I ask this, but why is everyone so sure that Kyrie gets them anywhere?
I don't know how this differs from what we just did wasting the prime years of a top 10 player who got them to 2 playoff appearances. The main difference is KP is likely a future all star, which wasn't a thing when they traded for Carmelo, but what does that make the Knicks? Good enough to make the playoffs if it all works, but not good enough to win.
people just obsessed with super teams? Why else is the Wolves recruiting Kyrie a story? He has absolutely ZERO say. What's he going to do? "Trade me there or I won't sign with team X despite being under contract for 2 more years"? Strange non-story
Transactions drive media often times more than games and results do. Â
it depends what else the knicks do. You arent adding Irving and then closing up shop. You hope that KP becomes a top 10-15 player in the league and then you make some shrewd signings and maybe you get another Irving level player to come sign here. Im not saying it happens im 100% using him as an example, but what if you added a Paul George this offseason. Could a team of
Irving
THJR
George
KP
WH
compete in the east? If KP progressed i think they could. Now can they beat GS? No, but if your only goal is to beat GSW then you might as well trade every asset for picks and just hope you suck long enough to get a few top 5 picks and that by the time they are good the warriors are old.
That's what I have a huge problem with. We're depending on the Knicks and hoping they learned from the Melo years, but I haven't seen anything that tells me that things have changed.
6 years, 3 general managers, 4.5 head coaches and some crazy number of 80-something different teammates since the trade and they couldn't put it together.
I don't know anything about this Perry guy, but the rest of the people responsible for that are still there and apparently have enough clout that a respected executive with playoffs teams in his resume was turned away because they wouldn't let him run it his way.
Now I'm not shouting conspiracies or anything, but confidence in THIS group?
The Suns are viewed as the wildcard for Irving. They will not consider moving Booker but Chriss is probably as good of a chip as they are going to find.
Lebron, Melo, Bledsoe, courtney Lee and Oquinn. Obviously in this scenario they are getting at least 1 if. It 2 first round picks. But forgetting the picks for a second which team has a better chance vs. Golden state. Assuming Rose signs. A bench of Rose, Lee, Korver and OQuinn isn't bad. Just need a athletic defender off the bench as well.
Kyrie was a first overall pick? If you have to give up next years pick to get him you do it PRONTO. He's what you are looking for in a first round pick AND he's only 25. Now they would have to be smart about what other asset besides Melo they give up obviously
but his injury history does concern me. Also the fact that he wouldn't want to play with the best player in the world and go for another title is concerning. Is playing with LeBron for one more year that much of an issue?
but his injury history does concern me. Also the fact that he wouldn't want to play with the best player in the world and go for another title is concerning. Is playing with LeBron for one more year that much of an issue?
Here's likely more going on than what's being reported. My guess is he had a falling out with LeBron and the "LeBron was blind sided" reports are bogus.
Why would Melo want to go the Cavs if Kyrie is not there and it is likely that James will be leaving next year?
If the Knicks do trade for Kyrie they would be better off not trading Carmelo. The team would be looking to win and Irving, Melo, KP would be a good (3). The Knicks could trade (2) protected DPs + Frank + other pieces for Irving.
Why would Melo want to go the Cavs if Kyrie is not there and it is likely that James will be leaving next year?
If the Knicks do trade for Kyrie they would be better off not trading Carmelo. The team would be looking to win and Irving, Melo, KP would be a good (3). The Knicks could trade (2) protected DPs + Frank + other pieces for Irving.
melo has an opt out, he can opt out just like lebron can...
no you trade for irving the plan would be build around him and kp, not melo...
The Suns are viewed as the wildcard for Irving. They will not consider moving Booker but Chriss is probably as good of a chip as they are going to find.
Makes a lot of sense for Cleveland since they can give them help for one last run with Lebron and prepare them for the future but I don't understand it from Phoenix's POV. Kyrie and Booker is an odd match given that they both don't do much outside of scoring and defensively they would be horrific. That's why i think that the 3-way deal with Love make sure more sense especially if they want to hold onto Chriss which it certainly seemed like prior to Kyrie being on the market.
I happen to love Fox as a prospect but he is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Cleveland needs shooters, LBJ is the distributor. Fox would help their perimeter defense but you are sort of wasting him as a perpetrator.
Melo is way better than Fox for where Cleveland is. And Fox + any player on the Kings isn't better than Melo + Hernangomez for example.
The value of youth while high for most teams i'd say is by far lower for the Lebron's than any other team because he leaves next year if the team isn't championship calendar.
I happen to love Fox as a prospect but he is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Cleveland needs shooters, LBJ is the distributor. Fox would help their perimeter defense but you are sort of wasting him as a perpetrator.
Melo is way better than Fox for where Cleveland is. And Fox + any player on the Kings isn't better than Melo + Hernangomez for example.
The value of youth while high for most teams i'd say is by far lower for the Lebron's than any other team because he leaves next year if the team isn't championship calendar.
Which is why Frank shouldn't be part of a deal for Kyrie.
I'd do Melo, O'Quinn, and a top 15 protected 2018 1st turns into 2019 1st for Kyrie and Shumpert.
That's the second time you acted like you have some kind of inside info. Is there a reason you're not elaborating? Do you know him? Did he get you pregnant? I mean, why the cryptic messages? If you know something, tell us.
RE: RE: RE: Sacramento reportedly will offer Fox in a Kyrie deal. Â
I happen to love Fox as a prospect but he is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Cleveland needs shooters, LBJ is the distributor. Fox would help their perimeter defense but you are sort of wasting him as a perpetrator.
Melo is way better than Fox for where Cleveland is. And Fox + any player on the Kings isn't better than Melo + Hernangomez for example.
The value of youth while high for most teams i'd say is by far lower for the Lebron's than any other team because he leaves next year if the team isn't championship calendar.
Which is why Frank shouldn't be part of a deal for Kyrie.
I'd do Melo, O'Quinn, and a top 15 protected 2018 1st turns into 2019 1st for Kyrie and Shumpert.
You might need to move Frank to get Bledsoe or another PG though.
I don't think the Cavs move Kyrie without getting an NBA ready PG that can play perimeter D. In your trade who guards opposing PGs? You trade away Shump who is the only player capable of that. Cavs won't make that trade.
I happen to love Fox as a prospect but he is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Cleveland needs shooters, LBJ is the distributor. Fox would help their perimeter defense but you are sort of wasting him as a perpetrator.
Melo is way better than Fox for where Cleveland is. And Fox + any player on the Kings isn't better than Melo + Hernangomez for example.
The value of youth while high for most teams i'd say is by far lower for the Lebron's than any other team because he leaves next year if the team isn't championship calendar.
Which is why Frank shouldn't be part of a deal for Kyrie.
I'd do Melo, O'Quinn, and a top 15 protected 2018 1st turns into 2019 1st for Kyrie and Shumpert.
From your lips to god's ears. But that's a trash offer to the cavs. O'Quinn is an ok player but nothing special nor will he ever be anything special and a top 15 protected pick is even worse. You're not getting Irvin for that.
he has in the trade situation so I don't want to spill the beans on a personal matter until things become clearer. But I will say I'm pretty sure the reason NY is on the list is because of where he group up (though he'd be extremely reticent to play for Dolan), and the reason SA is on the list is also more than basketball.
ran pretty quick. Not really hearing much since Friday when it broke.
I think that is to be expected. No way they pull the trigger on a deal before thoroughly evaluating that market AND doing everything they can to change Kyrie's mind.
in the drivers seat if they are smart and see the forest through the trees.
This, of course, all hinges on Lebron. He's already spurned them once so they have to understand that loyalty to his team/home is likely at the bottom of the list. If he commits to wanting to stay beyond his opt out, then I would stay the course and try to improve the team in any way. But I'd still be hesitant about it so I'd try to get him to extend. He won't do that, as expected, and then the team would need to make a decision on it.
If he's wishy washy about staying in CLE (or even states he will leave - unlikely) then I'd move forward with a full rebuild. They have valuable pieces that could get them set up for the future in a big way. Screw Lebron. Let him wither in his own game.
Is he besties with Jimmy Butler or something?
They apparently are close but I guess he likes the city as well. They did engage the Bulls but there was no match and then Butler was traded. Chicago is an odd choice however. I guess he saw Butler as a superstar but one that wouldn't take his shine.
Seems like they'd have an odd lineup.
According to an English translation obtained by The Post, Porzingis answered:
“I feel that it is the best place to win. And if you win in New York, you are king. For the last two years, I have had so many positive emotions here that this is where I want to stay and that this is where I want to win.”
You're gonna have to give to get irvin. I'm not 100% in love with him but I'd deal a future first and melo in a heartbeat. And I'd most definitely deal the pick over Willy or frank.
does nba tv air the games?
KP or Frank
It's melo a 1st and Willy I'm ok with moving
Quote:
wish MSG were airing the Latvia exhibition game on 7/29
does nba tv air the games?
I think they are airing some of the real games but I don't think exhibition games.
You can sell it if the knicks are building around Irvin, KP, frank, hardaway and Gomez with no 2018 pick. It might not be ideal but at least it's something to work with. Can't give up Frank or Gomez and a quality pick.
I also don't think it's likely the knicks are super high lottery picking next even if they didn't land Irvin. They will be close to or at the 30 win mark most likely. If they land Irvin maybe 40. I'd be ok dealing the 12th pick or so. And it could be high teens.
Quote:
Been a Knick fan long enough to know how this goes. Fans approve every move that involves a "star name" regardless of the cost. They could deal Melo 2018, 2020, 2022 and people on here would still support the move. 100% fact
You have such a weird stance on this and are firmly in the minority.
It's one thing to mortgage the future for a star that will get them nowhere. Irving is 25. He is only getting better and could be a Knick for the next decade.
I'm not trying to to play contrarian or troll when I ask this, but why is everyone so sure that Kyrie gets them anywhere?
I don't know how this differs from what we just did wasting the prime years of a top 10 player who got them to 2 playoff appearances. The main difference is KP is likely a future all star, which wasn't a thing when they traded for Carmelo, but what does that make the Knicks? Good enough to make the playoffs if it all works, but not good enough to win.
Irving
THJR
George
KP
WH
compete in the east? If KP progressed i think they could. Now can they beat GS? No, but if your only goal is to beat GSW then you might as well trade every asset for picks and just hope you suck long enough to get a few top 5 picks and that by the time they are good the warriors are old.
That's what I have a huge problem with. We're depending on the Knicks and hoping they learned from the Melo years, but I haven't seen anything that tells me that things have changed.
6 years, 3 general managers, 4.5 head coaches and some crazy number of 80-something different teammates since the trade and they couldn't put it together.
I don't know anything about this Perry guy, but the rest of the people responsible for that are still there and apparently have enough clout that a respected executive with playoffs teams in his resume was turned away because they wouldn't let him run it his way.
Now I'm not shouting conspiracies or anything, but confidence in THIS group?
it is why i think the sunsknicks cavs 3team makes sense...
suns get love, cavs get melo and bledsoe knicks get irving
Lebron, Melo, Bledsoe, courtney Lee and Oquinn. Obviously in this scenario they are getting at least 1 if. It 2 first round picks. But forgetting the picks for a second which team has a better chance vs. Golden state. Assuming Rose signs. A bench of Rose, Lee, Korver and OQuinn isn't bad. Just need a athletic defender off the bench as well.
Cavs trade -kyrie
Suns trade - josh Jackson /Eric bledsoe
Knicks receive -josh Jackson
Cavs receive - Bledsoe melo Oquinn
Suns receive - kyrie lee
Did we give him a player option or a no-trade clause? Kidding aside, I think he's a player.
Here's likely more going on than what's being reported. My guess is he had a falling out with LeBron and the "LeBron was blind sided" reports are bogus.
If the Knicks do trade for Kyrie they would be better off not trading Carmelo. The team would be looking to win and Irving, Melo, KP would be a good (3). The Knicks could trade (2) protected DPs + Frank + other pieces for Irving.
If the Knicks do trade for Kyrie they would be better off not trading Carmelo. The team would be looking to win and Irving, Melo, KP would be a good (3). The Knicks could trade (2) protected DPs + Frank + other pieces for Irving.
melo has an opt out, he can opt out just like lebron can...
no you trade for irving the plan would be build around him and kp, not melo...
Makes a lot of sense for Cleveland since they can give them help for one last run with Lebron and prepare them for the future but I don't understand it from Phoenix's POV. Kyrie and Booker is an odd match given that they both don't do much outside of scoring and defensively they would be horrific. That's why i think that the 3-way deal with Love make sure more sense especially if they want to hold onto Chriss which it certainly seemed like prior to Kyrie being on the market.
based on?
I happen to love Fox as a prospect but he is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Cleveland needs shooters, LBJ is the distributor. Fox would help their perimeter defense but you are sort of wasting him as a perpetrator.
Melo is way better than Fox for where Cleveland is. And Fox + any player on the Kings isn't better than Melo + Hernangomez for example.
The value of youth while high for most teams i'd say is by far lower for the Lebron's than any other team because he leaves next year if the team isn't championship calendar.
Quote:
.
I happen to love Fox as a prospect but he is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Cleveland needs shooters, LBJ is the distributor. Fox would help their perimeter defense but you are sort of wasting him as a perpetrator.
Melo is way better than Fox for where Cleveland is. And Fox + any player on the Kings isn't better than Melo + Hernangomez for example.
The value of youth while high for most teams i'd say is by far lower for the Lebron's than any other team because he leaves next year if the team isn't championship calendar.
Which is why Frank shouldn't be part of a deal for Kyrie.
I'd do Melo, O'Quinn, and a top 15 protected 2018 1st turns into 2019 1st for Kyrie and Shumpert.
That's the second time you acted like you have some kind of inside info. Is there a reason you're not elaborating? Do you know him? Did he get you pregnant? I mean, why the cryptic messages? If you know something, tell us.
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In comment 13536653 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
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I happen to love Fox as a prospect but he is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Cleveland needs shooters, LBJ is the distributor. Fox would help their perimeter defense but you are sort of wasting him as a perpetrator.
Melo is way better than Fox for where Cleveland is. And Fox + any player on the Kings isn't better than Melo + Hernangomez for example.
The value of youth while high for most teams i'd say is by far lower for the Lebron's than any other team because he leaves next year if the team isn't championship calendar.
Which is why Frank shouldn't be part of a deal for Kyrie.
I'd do Melo, O'Quinn, and a top 15 protected 2018 1st turns into 2019 1st for Kyrie and Shumpert.
You might need to move Frank to get Bledsoe or another PG though.
I don't think the Cavs move Kyrie without getting an NBA ready PG that can play perimeter D. In your trade who guards opposing PGs? You trade away Shump who is the only player capable of that. Cavs won't make that trade.
Quote:
In comment 13536653 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
.
I happen to love Fox as a prospect but he is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Cleveland needs shooters, LBJ is the distributor. Fox would help their perimeter defense but you are sort of wasting him as a perpetrator.
Melo is way better than Fox for where Cleveland is. And Fox + any player on the Kings isn't better than Melo + Hernangomez for example.
The value of youth while high for most teams i'd say is by far lower for the Lebron's than any other team because he leaves next year if the team isn't championship calendar.
Which is why Frank shouldn't be part of a deal for Kyrie.
I'd do Melo, O'Quinn, and a top 15 protected 2018 1st turns into 2019 1st for Kyrie and Shumpert.
From your lips to god's ears. But that's a trash offer to the cavs. O'Quinn is an ok player but nothing special nor will he ever be anything special and a top 15 protected pick is even worse. You're not getting Irvin for that.
I think that is to be expected. No way they pull the trigger on a deal before thoroughly evaluating that market AND doing everything they can to change Kyrie's mind.
This, of course, all hinges on Lebron. He's already spurned them once so they have to understand that loyalty to his team/home is likely at the bottom of the list. If he commits to wanting to stay beyond his opt out, then I would stay the course and try to improve the team in any way. But I'd still be hesitant about it so I'd try to get him to extend. He won't do that, as expected, and then the team would need to make a decision on it.
If he's wishy washy about staying in CLE (or even states he will leave - unlikely) then I'd move forward with a full rebuild. They have valuable pieces that could get them set up for the future in a big way. Screw Lebron. Let him wither in his own game.