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Kyrie Irving asked the Cavaliers to trade him in a meeting last week, according to @WindhorstESPN.
apart, and Lebron is going to leave after next year anyway, maybe they should trade Love, Irving and Lebron and get loaded up on assets? Is one more year of Lebron a better proposition than being super loaded up with assets for a long time?
but I actually think it would have been a smart time to try to trade him with his value high (earlier this offseason obviously). I think this offseason was their chance to change things up for the better to give Lebron a reason to stay and obviously the exact opposite has happened.
The request came last week and was made to Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert. Irving has expressed that he wants to go play in a situation where he can be a more focal point and no longer wants to play alongside LeBron James, sources said.
Irvings agent Jeff Wechsler would not confirm or deny whether Irving asked for a trade.
Kyrie and I had a meeting with Cavs leadership where we discussed many different scenarios in reference to Kyrie and his future with the team, Wechsler told ESPNs Adrian Wojnarowski. The basis of those discussions and what went on in those discussions are between the Cavs and us. We are respectfully going to keep those private.
apart, and Lebron is going to leave after next year anyway, maybe they should trade Love, Irving and Lebron and get loaded up on assets? Is one more year of Lebron a better proposition than being super loaded up with assets for a long time?
That's probably a good idea. That team is fucked after next season if they stay the course here.
the Warriors not only beat them, but ripped out their hearts too. They don't even want to try again.
Well, the Cavs always struck me as an organization that doesn't really try hard that much. They were just able to sign LeBron, and they were able to draft some good players and some valuable trade assets on account of sucking.
I wonder if LeBron roughed him up after the series.
Cleveland is quietly a TERRIBLY run team. I think we dodged a bullet with their GM.
The guys they gave ridiculous contracts to were all guys LeBron wanted them to re-sign at any cost. Now he's ready to bounce.
Lebron did the same thing when he bounced the first time. He forced their hand into acquiring a bunch of overpriced names and then booked when he realized he couldn't win there.
as a one year rental? BOS (Horford/Tatum)? I feel like NO should get involved. Aldridge to Philly, LeBron to SAS, futures from Philly and Murray from SAS to CLE?
My comment was more about whether we dodged a bullet with David Griffin. Maybe we did, but I think it's hard to pin this on him. He was effectively neutered the second Lebron returned.
the Warriors not only beat them, but ripped out their hearts too. They don't even want to try again.
Well, the Cavs always struck me as an organization that doesn't really try hard that much. They were just able to sign LeBron, and they were able to draft some good players and some valuable trade assets on account of sucking.
It was just straight luck to get FOUR first overall picks in a dozen years despite having the worst record just once. The Lakers look well run now, but they were lucky as fuck to not only keep their first round pick, but move up a spot too (and get the biggest name player).
For all of the talk about well run franchises, this sport more than any other involves luck due to the lottery system and stars winning the championships.
the Warriors not only beat them, but ripped out their hearts too. They don't even want to try again.
Well, the Cavs always struck me as an organization that doesn't really try hard that much. They were just able to sign LeBron, and they were able to draft some good players and some valuable trade assets on account of sucking.
It was just straight luck to get FOUR first overall picks in a dozen years despite having the worst record just once. The Lakers look well run now, but they were lucky as fuck to not only keep their first round pick, but move up a spot too (and get the biggest name player).
For all of the talk about well run franchises, this sport more than any other involves luck due to the lottery system and stars winning the championships.
Except GSW is built on a mid lotto pick, a late lotto pick, a 2nd round pick, and good cap management. Kobe wasnt an elite pick (even if the Nets would have taken him) and then LA drew out Shaq. Miami combined a #5 pick with cap space to built a dream team.
Kinda dumb to trade LeBron unless you get absolutely blown
He'd have to be pretty dumb for this to be true.With the way the league is going,you better hop on board one of these super teams.Also,he's 2 years away from a max contract.
Could be applying pressure to the Cavs,there off season hasn't gone very well.
I don't know, ending up with a player of Draymond Green's caliber
Except GSW is built on a mid lotto pick, a late lotto pick, a 2nd round pick, and good cap management. Kobe wasnt an elite pick (even if the Nets would have taken him) and then LA drew out Shaq. Miami combined a #5 pick with cap space to built a dream team.
I don't see how drafting a future MVP after the likes of Rubio and Jonny Flynn are selected isn't considered luck. IDK about you, but I definitely thought he was better than those guys before the draft.
RE: Kinda dumb to trade LeBron unless you get absolutely blown
away like Brooklyn's number 1, LAL/SAC pick, Tatum, and Smart.
Otherwise, you're better off going to the Finals with him again (raking in that dough), then decide if you want to trade Kyrie too at that point.
If all of this is true, I'd try to trade Kevin Love IMMEDIATELY!!!!
Probably right. That's also a bad fan base to pitch on the idea of "we're gonna get high picks and rebuild".
They should trade off Love and try to get a lot more athletic. Trade skill for athletes, see if that works. Figure out a way to get an athletic center and try to win with rebounding, defense, power. If Kyrie stays.
RE: I don't know, ending up with a player of Draymond Green's caliber
Except GSW is built on a mid lotto pick, a late lotto pick, a 2nd round pick, and good cap management.
People forget this now, but GSW also took some risks that were fairly criticized at the time, especially by its own fan base. You can't say that the new ownership is one that does not try. In fact, you could say that early on, their gall to try was almost considered unwelcome and out of character to a fan base that kind of gave up on being a playoff powerhouse and just wanted the team to at least be entertaining.
How quickly people forget what the Cavs were with Kyrie before LeBron returned.
A team that was winning games in the 20's, finishing in last place, and missing the playoffs entirely.
Kyrie is a really good player, but if he thinks he's going to be the best player on a championship caliber team, he's in for a rude awakening.
I have my doubts that he could carry a team as the #1 guy. I have my doubts that's his motivation, I think it's a kick in the ass to the front office and owner to get their shit together.
He absolutely is, but that doesn't change the last thing I said.
Kyrie will never be the best player on a Championship team. He's an incredible offensive player and is the closest thing I've probably ever seen to Iverson, but he doesn't play defense and he's not a good facilitator, either.
Kyrie has one of the most devastating handles in the league and is impossible to guard 1 on 1. I love watching him. All I'm saying is that if he thinks he's going to find greener pastures where he's the Alpha dog on a team that is playing in the Finals, he's sorely mistaken.
Like someone else said, Kyrie obviously sees the writing on the wall
Mike Ortiz Jr.
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Sources: Bucks and Suns have reached out to Cavs in regards to Kyrie Irving. Deal around Jabari Parker/Eric Bledsoe plus other young assets.
RE: For a kid from Duke, he's not very bright apparently
Mike Ortiz Jr.
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Sources: Bucks and Suns have reached out to Cavs in regards to Kyrie Irving. Deal around Jabari Parker/Eric Bledsoe plus other young assets.
same guy says knicks have stopped talks with houston to focus on trades for irving
Mike Ortiz Jr.
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Sources: Bucks and Suns have reached out to Cavs in regards to Kyrie Irving. Deal around Jabari Parker/Eric Bledsoe plus other young assets.
same guy says knicks have stopped talks with houston to focus on trades for irving
in the first without protection is craziness. The 2017 Knicks minus Melo + Kyrie Irving are still not going to be very good. The idea would be having Irving and a high pick after the season. Where is the path to being a contender with KP/Irving and no pick and no cap room?
Cleveland covers their asses both for this coming season and a start on the future with Frank and the pick.
Knicks are left with
Knicks main pieces are Kyrie, THJ, Porz and Willy.
Frank or a #1. Knicks arent going anywhere soon anyway. But Im not hyper excited about possibly getting Kyrie. I might be if KP was a year older, and if the cap wasnted F'd up with Noah and Thomas and THJR. As it stands, I think the 2018 #1 is really, really important.
Mike Ortiz Jr.
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Sources: Bucks and Suns have reached out to Cavs in regards to Kyrie Irving. Deal around Jabari Parker/Eric Bledsoe plus other young assets.
same guy says knicks have stopped talks with houston to focus on trades for irving
Mike Ortiz Jr.
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Sources: Bucks and Suns have reached out to Cavs in regards to Kyrie Irving. Deal around Jabari Parker/Eric Bledsoe plus other young assets.
same guy says knicks have stopped talks with houston to focus on trades for irving
and LeBron still wants to take a shot with Love and Melo maybe something can get done around those two.
I don't know how salaries match and all that but they can have Courtney Lee too.
Now if you have that core in place and another 1st round pick, that's a really nice start.
Dude they can have MSG while they're at it. Trade anything and everything not bolted to the ground, and not named KP. GET IT DONE PERRY/MILL/HOUSTON/DOLAN/WHOEVER THE FUCK IS RUNNING THIS TEAM!!!!
In the world of cap management and windows, I think it makes a lot of sense to keep Frank, create cap space, and try to sign someone when Frank, KP, and friends are humming along.
Part of the issue is that Im not a huge Kyrie believer. But much more important is, I cant come up with a story where we trade Frank and Melo and a #1 for Kyrie and we're relevant in the next 2-3 years. Maybe we push for the playoffs, then push to win a round. Fair enough. But maybe Kyrie stunts KP's growth. Maybe Kyrie keeps us good enough to be a late lottery team this year, starving us of the high pick we could really use. And Kyrie is ready for his prime while the other guys we have are 100% not ready.
Not possible with that weather. I've never been to Cleveland but I've been about two hours away, in Erie, in the winter. Not pleasant.
Well yeah, I meant more during the spring and summer. There's some nice spots on the water. I'm not saying it's NYC, but it's improved. In the winter, yeah, stay away
sooner trade Willy than give up next years #1 unprotected. That pick could dictate the next decade of Knicks basketball along with KP. Irving is very good but he's not elite top 5-10 best player in the league and never figures to be. The Knicks need someone of that caliber and landing one would come with a lottery pick. What are you building with KP/Irving/Frank/Willy/THjr and no pick? No realistic path to being title contenders barring Frank being a star or Willy being Marc Gasol 2.0.
With the Warriors team, no one should expect full price futures return for players in their prime. Too many very good but not top 10 players are available.
In the world of cap management and windows, I think it makes a lot of sense to keep Frank, create cap space, and try to sign someone when Frank, KP, and friends are humming along.
because of the pending KP max (which is going to be huge) and the presence of Hardaway, Noah, and Lee on the books, I don't know that there's going to be an opportunity to add a max level player to a KP/Frank/Willy core via cap space.
In the world of cap management and windows, I think it makes a lot of sense to keep Frank, create cap space, and try to sign someone when Frank, KP, and friends are humming along.
Part of the issue is that Im not a huge Kyrie believer. But much more important is, I cant come up with a story where we trade Frank and Melo and a #1 for Kyrie and we're relevant in the next 2-3 years. Maybe we push for the playoffs, then push to win a round. Fair enough. But maybe Kyrie stunts KP's growth. Maybe Kyrie keeps us good enough to be a late lottery team this year, starving us of the high pick we could really use. And Kyrie is ready for his prime while the other guys we have are 100% not ready.
If this is true, then KP is not (and will not be) as good as BBI has led me to believe he is.
Can't be Frank AND a #1 in the package - has to be either/or + other pieces. Frank is an excellent fit next to Irving. If we're giving him up, we'll need another young piece to add next year. Willy and THjr ain't cutting it.
Woj saying cavs hiring my boy koby Altman to be g m
wouldn't want to deal Frank but if my choices were Frank or unprotected #1 I'd give up Frank. We go into this season as a bad team even with Irving replacing Melo, one injury to KP or Irving and the Knicks could be top 3 pick bad EASILY. Imagine missing out on a Porter or Doncic. I'd be sick.
to lose Frank as well. With his versatility/length and shooting he could be an ideal bench player backing up the 1-3 as he learns and develops.
That said, there are limited opportunities to add top 15 or so players in league. Even fewer to do that when the player is 25. The Knicks need to make a move on this and do what it takes IMO.
Chris HaynesVerified account @ChrisBHaynes
ESPN Sources: On Kyrie Irving front, Cavs were given four preferred landing spots: New York, Miami, San Antonio, Minnesota.
Obviously if this whole situation is a legit possibility they do have interest in Rose but can only supposedly offer him 2.5. If we help them get Rose then in theory we would get something back so if Melo and a first could get Irving then that piece we get back could be a top ten protection on the pick. Thought?
You guys know more about the rest of the league than I do
it turns the heat up on Morey a little. Throw in Capela and maybe we'll turn our attention back to you.
If Capela is part of the deal then I'd take on Andersons contract
Melo and Thomas and Melo waives the trade kicker
For
Capela and Anderson and Qi or Hartenstein
In the world of cap management and windows, I think it makes a lot of sense to keep Frank, create cap space, and try to sign someone when Frank, KP, and friends are humming along.
because of the pending KP max (which is going to be huge) and the presence of Hardaway, Noah, and Lee on the books, I don't know that there's going to be an opportunity to add a max level player to a KP/Frank/Willy core via cap space.
KP's new contract will kick in for 2020-21. I believe it lines up that we can fit a max guy summer 2019, and maybe 2 max guys in 2020 (or close to it) if KP doesnt resign early (i.e. if he goes into summer 2020 as a cap hold and not on the new deal).
Summer 2020, everyone is off contract except THJR (fucking player option) and Frank's option. So even signing KP, we have a max deal. Maybe even with Willy's hold. But the #1s will start to add up too, as will a fresh layer of dumb signings.
RE: Would a sign and trade of Rose be part of this?
Obviously if this whole situation is a legit possibility they do have interest in Rose but can only supposedly offer him 2.5. If we help them get Rose then in theory we would get something back so if Melo and a first could get Irving then that piece we get back could be a top ten protection on the pick. Thought?
we can't sign and trade Rose at this point. We had to renounce his rights so that we had cap room for Hardaway.
Do we realistically have enough to make this happen?
Lets say that is possible. During tge draft everybody wanted Melo gone because so we can have a worse record amd get a better pick. All potential trades are not that great involving him. We aren't really getting anything of value. So, on draft night if I said we can unload Melo's contract AND get Irving for the 8th pick in the draft then you guys would not do that? I am mot saying Cleveland would but I have no problem keeping our picks and having a starting roster of Willy, Porzingis, Lee, THJ, and Irving.
it turns the heat up on Morey a little. Throw in Capela and maybe we'll turn our attention back to you.
I don't think they throw in Capela under ANY circumstances. Anything else on the roster outside of CP3, Beard, and Capela is available. To be honest, I don't even need him. I'll take multiple UNPROTECTED firsts and players with contracts that expire by 2019. (Of course that means they have to find non-existent team to take Anderson.)
Obviously if this whole situation is a legit possibility they do have interest in Rose but can only supposedly offer him 2.5. If we help them get Rose then in theory we would get something back so if Melo and a first could get Irving then that piece we get back could be a top ten protection on the pick. Thought?
we can't sign and trade Rose at this point. We had to renounce his rights so that we had cap room for Hardaway.
I'd do that in the blink of an eye. Melo seems committed to Houston at this point though, and I doubt Cleveland wants him anyway. They can get younger players and first rounders for Kyrie.
it turns the heat up on Morey a little. Throw in Capela and maybe we'll turn our attention back to you.
I don't think they throw in Capela under ANY circumstances. Anything else on the roster outside of CP3, Beard, and Capela is available. To be honest, I don't even need him. I'll take multiple UNPROTECTED firsts and players with contracts that expire by 2019. (Of course that means they have to find non-existent team to take Anderson.)
I'd do that in the blink of an eye. Melo seems committed to Houston at this point though, and I doubt Cleveland wants him anyway. They can get younger players and first rounders for Kyrie.
Agreed but what is Cleveland's goal? Is it to get younger and get more assets for the future or is it to go for it all this year in one last chance to get another championship?
In the world of cap management and windows, I think it makes a lot of sense to keep Frank, create cap space, and try to sign someone when Frank, KP, and friends are humming along.
because of the pending KP max (which is going to be huge) and the presence of Hardaway, Noah, and Lee on the books, I don't know that there's going to be an opportunity to add a max level player to a KP/Frank/Willy core via cap space.
KP's new contract will kick in for 2020-21. I believe it lines up that we can fit a max guy summer 2019, and maybe 2 max guys in 2020 (or close to it) if KP doesnt resign early (i.e. if he goes into summer 2020 as a cap hold and not on the new deal).
Summer 2020, everyone is off contract except THJR (fucking player option) and Frank's option. So even signing KP, we have a max deal. Maybe even with Willy's hold. But the #1s will start to add up too, as will a fresh layer of dumb signings.
I think you're a year late on KP. By year 5 (2019/2020) he'll be making $25 million or so. Maybe more depending or where the cap is.
feel comfortable saying Frank isn't going to be a #1 or #2 star on a championship team and I think 99.9% of the world would agree with me.
I would be very surprised if Frank was ever as good as Kyrie. But I also think that Frank could be one of those guys who does a few things very well, and nothing that hurts you (like a Klay Thompson), and that players like that are so crucial to winning basketball. Especially if they arent clocking 30-35 million off your cap. Kyrie isnt a good defender. Frank and KP could be the start of a suffocating defense for all we know.
But the bigger issue is the cap issue to me. There is a lot to be said for developing Frank, who is cheap, and trying to sign someone in 2 summers when KP is thru 4 seasons and hopefully a 25 point player.
feel comfortable saying Frank isn't going to be a #1 or #2 star on a championship team and I think 99.9% of the world would agree with me.
I would be very surprised if Frank was ever as good as Kyrie. But I also think that Frank could be one of those guys who does a few things very well, and nothing that hurts you (like a Klay Thompson), and that players like that are so crucial to winning basketball. Especially if they arent clocking 30-35 million off your cap. Kyrie isnt a good defender. Frank and KP could be the start of a suffocating defense for all we know.
But the bigger issue is the cap issue to me. There is a lot to be said for developing Frank, who is cheap, and trying to sign someone in 2 summers when KP is thru 4 seasons and hopefully a 25 point player.
Deej,
To be clear I wasn't taking a swipe at Frank, rather the need to find another true superstar through the draft with the 2018 pick. People may absolutely love Frank but I find it hard to believe anyone thinks a KP/Frank/Irving top 3 is ever competing for a title.
I think you're a year late on KP. By year 5 (2019/2020) he'll be making $25 million or so. Maybe more depending or where the cap is.
I forgot that the higher pay can start in year 5. So yeah, 2019 is the key summer. We have max cap space to sign someone, or can make it pretty easily by flexing Noah/Thomas or hoping that someone like Lee or THJR is movable.
feel comfortable saying Frank isn't going to be a #1 or #2 star on a championship team and I think 99.9% of the world would agree with me.
I would be very surprised if Frank was ever as good as Kyrie. But I also think that Frank could be one of those guys who does a few things very well, and nothing that hurts you (like a Klay Thompson), and that players like that are so crucial to winning basketball. Especially if they arent clocking 30-35 million off your cap. Kyrie isnt a good defender. Frank and KP could be the start of a suffocating defense for all we know.
But the bigger issue is the cap issue to me. There is a lot to be said for developing Frank, who is cheap, and trying to sign someone in 2 summers when KP is thru 4 seasons and hopefully a 25 point player.
Deej,
To be clear I wasn't taking a swipe at Frank, rather the need to find another true superstar through the draft with the 2018 pick. People may absolutely love Frank but I find it hard to believe anyone thinks a KP/Frank/Irving top 3 is ever competing for a title.
Didnt think you were. Frankly, we'd be fortunate if he was Batum, right? No one is gonna be super excited about a Batum sitting here today (though if he was a Spur people would cream themselves over him).
My point is just -- hope we got Batum or better on a cheap deal and use the cap space before we have to resign him to sign a Kyrie-like player. John Wall, or whoever. Plus we'll have 2018 high pick assuming Melo is moved. No guarantee we get a Wall or similar player, but I also dont know that getting Kyrie is a guarantee is anything. It's probably better than I imagine, but with our clogged cap space it is hard to get super excited. KP-Kyrie-Willie-THJR-XXX would get smoked by GSW.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Im really in no rush to trade Frank
I think you're a year late on KP. By year 5 (2019/2020) he'll be making $25 million or so. Maybe more depending or where the cap is.
I forgot that the higher pay can start in year 5. So yeah, 2019 is the key summer. We have max cap space to sign someone, or can make it pretty easily by flexing Noah/Thomas or hoping that someone like Lee or THJR is movable.
that's the thing - cap space will be tight that summer because hopefully KP will have already signed his max deal when he's eligible to do so (the year prior). The following year, Wily (if he's still around) will be getting paid, although in his case you sign someone else first and then sign him.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Im really in no rush to trade Frank
I think you're a year late on KP. By year 5 (2019/2020) he'll be making $25 million or so. Maybe more depending or where the cap is.
I forgot that the higher pay can start in year 5. So yeah, 2019 is the key summer. We have max cap space to sign someone, or can make it pretty easily by flexing Noah/Thomas or hoping that someone like Lee or THJR is movable.
that's the thing - cap space will be tight that summer because hopefully KP will have already signed his max deal when he's eligible to do so (the year prior). The following year, Wily (if he's still around) will be getting paid, although in his case you sign someone else first and then sign him.
with KP at ~26 million, we have 90.4 million committee, plus #1s in 2018 and 2019. That's basically no space unless THJR is tradable. Which hopefully he is. If you can move him, you have lots of options, even flexing Noah and Thomas. I hate flexing, but dont mind doing it for an expiring if it gets you a max player.
There's no way on Earth I would trade what amounts to 3 consecutive 1's for Kyree. Then to trade Melo on top of that with basically no return for him????????????????????? HELL NO.
Ramona ShelburneVerified account
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Ramona Shelburne Retweeted Chris Haynes
Knicks very interesting. Kyrie is from the area. KP was already dangled...and Knicks could still do S&T with DRose
Jordan Schultz Retweeted Brian Windhorst
Source: #Knicks and #Cavs in serious talks centered around Carmelo Anthony and Kyrie Irving+possible 3rd team (maybe #Suns).
Jordan Schultz Retweeted Brian Windhorst
Source: #Knicks and #Cavs in serious talks centered around Carmelo Anthony and Kyrie Irving+possible 3rd team (maybe #Suns).
He's not giving up his option and he's not going to be stuck there when LeBron bounces.
But if he gets to the finals year 1 than is it worth it? Melos options are limited, and most scenarios are him not playing for a contender. Him going there for a year then either leaving the year after LeBron or forcing a trade after LeBron leaves are a realistic options.
I'd say going to Cleveland is very much in the cards.
I say make the trade, send Melo over there for a year as a spy, convince LBJ to come to the Knicks next year with Melo. LBJ, KP, Kyrie, and Melo = championship, haha.
has yet to meet Dolan. Thought it was a little odd to not stick up for his boss when asked about the dysfunction centering around Dolan, but I guess that explains it. Hahaha
If the price on Kyrie includes 2 firsts, better off convincing Melo to stick and trying to lure LBJ here after the season (assuming Kyrie dealt elsewhere)?
Between now and then, you do whatever is needed to create the room by dumping Lee, KOQ, Lance, Noah.
Just a bat-shit crazy idea that occurred to me.
I worry that if you send 2 unprotected firsts along w Melo, you have a much better team right now, but do you have enough ammo to get over the hump to true contender in 2-3 years?
Fucking Michael Smith suggested Kyrie and Thompson for Melo and KP. Fuck him.
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
Knicks would consider trading Carmelo Anthony and future first rounders for Kyrie Irving.
"Knicks" is so vague. "would consider" is so vague. "future first rounders" is decently vague.
Kyrie news broke 3 hours ago and suddenly the "Knicks" have a position/plan? Feels like made up a rumor with vague enough weasel words that you could never be disproven.
Fucking Michael Smith suggested Kyrie and Thompson for Melo and KP. Fuck him.
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
Knicks would consider trading Carmelo Anthony and future first rounders for Kyrie Irving.
"Knicks" is so vague. "would consider" is so vague. "future first rounders" is decently vague.
Kyrie news broke 3 hours ago and suddenly the "Knicks" have a position/plan? Feels like made up a rumor with vague enough weasel words that you could never be disproven.
Allegedly Kyrie voiced his desire to be traded last week. Doesn't give any more legitimacy to that particular rumor, but there's likely been talks leading up to this.
How many times will we fall for it? Get our hopes up, only to have them come slamming down on us. I'll believe the Knicks can get Irvin without giving up KP right after it happens. Until then? It's not happening
Sorry for creating new thread - didn't see updated information when I
and Melo and Bledsoe are going to Cleveland, and Frank is going to Phoenix, I don't see why we need to be throwing first rounders Cleveland's way. Maybe one - with protection - in the next three years. We're contributing plenty.
Give up Melo Oquinn and hernangomez could be a good start obviously third team involvedbi would also give up a 1st rounder, kyrie is a stud although defensively he is terrible
Melo, Frank and two unprotected picks for Kyrie? That's excessive.
He's probably considering the likelihood that the Knicks will either trade those picks anyway on someone not worthy of them, or just blow them on bad players altogether.
Give up Melo Oquinn and hernangomez could be a good start obviously third team involvedbi would also give up a 1st rounder, kyrie is a stud although defensively he is terrible
Do you think there is a deal that Cleveland either comes out even or ahead? A year from now a team led by Love and Melo is going nowhere.
Ramona ShelburneVerified account
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Ramona Shelburne Retweeted Chris Haynes
Knicks very interesting. Kyrie is from the area. KP was already dangled...and Knicks could still do S&T with DRose
Seems to me like she just passed on someone else's tweet. You calling her dumb for that would be like me calling you dumb for quoting her tweet.
Ramona ShelburneVerified account
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Ramona Shelburne Retweeted Chris Haynes
Knicks very interesting. Kyrie is from the area. KP was already dangled...and Knicks could still do S&T with DRose
Seems to me like she just passed on someone else's tweet. You calling her dumb for that would be like me calling you dumb for quoting her tweet.
Haynes might be in the know but what does sign and trade do when Cleveland has the cap issues it has.
If the Knicks are willing to give THjr $71 million
That Melo doesn't opt out next year. Apparently he is best shape of his life from what his trainer tells us. If he has a great year on a good team, is there chance he can get like 3 years 60 million from some vs. playing out contract at 35 prob coming off a worse year then next year looking at 1 or 2 year deal.
ball-dominant score-first PG. We've already seen Kyrie on bad teams. That movie ends the same way pretty often. He puts the Knicks in the same situation Melo did. Depending on the front office to build around him without draft picks, which they have proven they are not good at. Kyrie doesn't make them a top 4 seed.
Plus isn't it a red flag that he would rather not play alongside Lebron and go to the finals again?
RE: I'm not exactly in a rush to pay a lot to get another
ball-dominant score-first PG. We've already seen Kyrie on bad teams. That movie ends the same way pretty often. He puts the Knicks in the same situation Melo did. Depending on the front office to build around him without draft picks, which they have proven they are not good at. Kyrie doesn't make them a top 4 seed.
Plus isn't it a red flag that he would rather not play alongside Lebron and go to the finals again?
wouldnt knicks be in a better situation for the simple fact they have kp?
you would have 2 young building blocks with frank who is 18, thjr and willy...
someone would make the junp to new york to come play with them especially if lebron left the east..
RE: I'm not exactly in a rush to pay a lot to get another
ball-dominant score-first PG. We've already seen Kyrie on bad teams. That movie ends the same way pretty often. He puts the Knicks in the same situation Melo did. Depending on the front office to build around him without draft picks, which they have proven they are not good at. Kyrie doesn't make them a top 4 seed.
Plus isn't it a red flag that he would rather not play alongside Lebron and go to the finals again?
Yes, Kyrie is a shoot first PG, but I'm not going to hold the results of his first few seasons against him when his best teammates were Tristan Thompson and an ancient Antwuan Jamison. There's a sizable difference between that and an improving KP, an improving Willy, and whatever THJ becomes. The comparison to the post- Melo trade Knicks really makes no sense. The improvement the Knicks will make is with those 3 young players they already have.
If KP is as good as all the people on BBI swore he was when the trade rumors were publicized, what are we really worried about? If they're not a top 4 seed in the East, then KP isn't as good as many of you thought. One thing we know is Kyrie Irving can be the second best player on a championship team.
Ramona ShelburneVerified account
@ramonashelburne
Ramona Shelburne Retweeted Chris Haynes
Knicks very interesting. Kyrie is from the area. KP was already dangled...and Knicks could still do S&T with DRose
Seems to me like she just passed on someone else's tweet. You calling her dumb for that would be like me calling you dumb for quoting her tweet.
that's not what happened at all. Are you too dumb to see who tweeted what? Haynes listed Irving's preferred destinations. Ramona tweeted the unworkable sign-and-trade option all on her own. Always amusing when these clowns who get paid to cover the league mess up basic stuff.
RE: I'm not exactly in a rush to pay a lot to get another
ball-dominant score-first PG. We've already seen Kyrie on bad teams. That movie ends the same way pretty often. He puts the Knicks in the same situation Melo did. Depending on the front office to build around him without draft picks, which they have proven they are not good at. Kyrie doesn't make them a top 4 seed.
Plus isn't it a red flag that he would rather not play alongside Lebron and go to the finals again?
the league is full of score first PGs these days. The guy is 24 and is just entering his prime. You can draft in the lottery for years and never get a guy this good.
RE: RE: I'm not exactly in a rush to pay a lot to get another
ball-dominant score-first PG. We've already seen Kyrie on bad teams. That movie ends the same way pretty often. He puts the Knicks in the same situation Melo did. Depending on the front office to build around him without draft picks, which they have proven they are not good at. Kyrie doesn't make them a top 4 seed.
Plus isn't it a red flag that he would rather not play alongside Lebron and go to the finals again?
Yes, Kyrie is a shoot first PG, but I'm not going to hold the results of his first few seasons against him when his best teammates were Tristan Thompson and an ancient Antwuan Jamison. There's a sizable difference between that and an improving KP, an improving Willy, and whatever THJ becomes. The comparison to the post- Melo trade Knicks really makes no sense. The improvement the Knicks will make is with those 3 young players they already have.
If KP is as good as all the people on BBI swore he was when the trade rumors were publicized, what are we really worried about? If they're not a top 4 seed in the East, then KP isn't as good as many of you thought. One thing we know is Kyrie Irving can be the second best player on a championship team.
This is the second time you've done this and I still don't know why. You seem like you've got some kind of issue with people claiming he has a ton of potential. Which he does. He's also 21 years old. However good he's going to be, he's got another 4 years or so before he's like going to get there. He's good now. He's good for his age. He shouldn't be expected to lead any team anywhere right now.
Irving might be a score first PG, but he is one of the top PG's in the league and is still young. Its like if the knicks were interested in westbrook people would be like "he gets too many triple doubles". Im not saying irving is the best but pairing him with KP would be amazing for our future.
That said i cant see it happening. Even if you sent out Melo, Lee, and KOQ for Irving, whichever of JR/Shump Cle would rather trade and Frye i still think we would have to throw in at least a couple unprotected firsts and maybe even Frank. I dont think i could do all of that, but id prolly do Frank and a pick or two picks (maybe 2018 top 3 protected or something) but no pick.
And i get CLE prolly still turns that down, but i dont want to see the knicks put all their assets into one player again.
for the simple fact if you tank ypu hope that pick becomes a player like irving, so in my eyes you are adding that player a year early without the growing pains...
i also think having irving and kp as your pair with thjr and willy on roster you will attract a max guy...
now the qiestion is do the cavs go with hoping someone offers a young up and coming player for ircing or do they go fro a quick fix for next year and then implode the team the following year...
id be fine with Frank and a first or two firsts but no frank. Odds are though it takes all of that to get him (if cle even takes that). I guess we have to see who else comes knocking and what kind of offer they can make. The knicks at least have Melo to dangle as a win now player who will appease Lebron. Plus some other win now guys like Lee/KOQ and then young upside like Frank or WH and some picks.
Irving might be a score first PG, but he is one of the top PG's in the league and is still young. Its like if the knicks were interested in westbrook people would be like "he gets too many triple doubles". Im not saying irving is the best but pairing him with KP would be amazing for our future.
That said i cant see it happening. Even if you sent out Melo, Lee, and KOQ for Irving, whichever of JR/Shump Cle would rather trade and Frye i still think we would have to throw in at least a couple unprotected firsts and maybe even Frank. I dont think i could do all of that, but id prolly do Frank and a pick or two picks (maybe 2018 top 3 protected or something) but no pick.
And i get CLE prolly still turns that down, but i dont want to see the knicks put all their assets into one player again.
I am not hating on him. Fine player. Really good. How good? Playing with Lebron makes good players seem great and Lebron himself made it very publicly clear the Cavs needed a point guard / playmaker late last year.
Did we not all agree that an actual point guard was the best fit for the growth of this young players on this team? If you're going to spend a lot to get Kyrie (and you will have to) you'd better be sure that a score-first player who isn't really known for consistent defensive effort and nobody really knows if he's capable of elevating players around him since he's never done it is the guy that you want to pin your future on. Because what you will have to give up to get him is going to set the time frame back a bit.
Moreover, the time frames don't match up. The knicks are young. Kyrie is 25 (which isn't old at all). By the time the rest of the team develops and has expectations to win he's probably going to be close to 30.
Unless you think this team is one all star away, which, I don't know why you would think that.
So cle didn't want to trade Melo for love. Now they are trading love for Melo anyway and then Irving for Bledsoe?? I could see them trying to get Bledsoe and Melo but not for love. And I'm not sure pho can be enticed to move Bledsoe for frank and fillers.
So cle didn't want to trade Melo for love. Now they are trading love for Melo anyway and then Irving for Bledsoe?? I could see them trying to get Bledsoe and Melo but not for love. And I'm not sure pho can be enticed to move Bledsoe for frank and fillers.
Well the last line says picks being moved. I'm guessing Cleveland would be getting those picks. That, and maybe Cleveland is a bit more prepared to move on from Love than they were
I think it would need to be something like this....
NYK Get - Irving, Chandler, Shumpert
PHX Get - Lee, Frank, Frye + top 5 protected knicks pick (Hopefully)
CLE gets - Anthony and Bledsoe.
Anthony and bledsoe is not a bad return for CLE. PHX dumps chandler and gets Frank, a first, and Lee for Bledsoe and the knicks get irving for essentially Frank and lightly protected first. Obviously there could be some moving parts, but that seems at least close to fair. Now im not sure roster wise it really makes sense for PHX to get Frank and Lee so that might be where it all falls apart.
You think that with Irving this team would take 5 years to develop? Jeezus.
What teams in the NBA win with 21/22 year olds as your go-to players?
And what information do we have that Kyrie Irving is carrying a bunch of kids anywhere? As I said, you're giving up a lot to get him, so right from the start, you're going in shorthanded and with limited ability to construct a team around him early on.
This is the Melo trade Act #2, if what is being reported
is true. If the Knicks trade this years'pick (Frank can't be traded until Aug 5th) & next years, you're hoping that KI,THJ,KP & WHG will form a nucleus that will propel the Knicks into the playoffs.What it propels them into is mediocrity. Kyrie is a superstar PG but Melo was a superstar SF & if we do this deal,we're back to post Melo trade. I love Kyrie's game but unless we can do Melo,Lee & a 2020/21 protected pick for KI, I say move Melo for young players and/or picks in this trade or to the Rockets(w/3rd team)
RE: This is the Melo trade Act #2, if what is being reported
is true. If the Knicks trade this years'pick (Frank can't be traded until Aug 5th) & next years, you're hoping that KI,THJ,KP & WHG will form a nucleus that will propel the Knicks into the playoffs.What it propels them into is mediocrity. Kyrie is a superstar PG but Melo was a superstar SF & if we do this deal,we're back to post Melo trade. I love Kyrie's game but unless we can do Melo,Lee & a 2020/21 protected pick for KI, I say move Melo for young players and/or picks in this trade or to the Rockets(w/3rd team)
how is it the melo trade?
you giving up kp? no
you giving up thjr? no
you giving up willy? no
your giving up 2018 first? ok isnt ehat you hope for that pick to become is kyrie?
plus you dont think someone would want to come play with iriving and kp?
plus who was the kp that the knicms were pairing with melo?
is true. If the Knicks trade this years'pick (Frank can't be traded until Aug 5th) & next years, you're hoping that KI,THJ,KP & WHG will form a nucleus that will propel the Knicks into the playoffs.What it propels them into is mediocrity. Kyrie is a superstar PG but Melo was a superstar SF & if we do this deal,we're back to post Melo trade. I love Kyrie's game but unless we can do Melo,Lee & a 2020/21 protected pick for KI, I say move Melo for young players and/or picks in this trade or to the Rockets(w/3rd team)
how is it the melo trade?
you giving up kp? no
you giving up thjr? no
you giving up willy? no
your giving up 2018 first? ok isnt ehat you hope for that pick to become is kyrie?
plus you dont think someone would want to come play with iriving and kp?
plus who was the kp that the knicms were pairing with melo?
You make good points & I'm not against getting KI but I think we have to see how many picks they're giving up. Jordan Schultz say both Cavs & Suns getting picks along w/Frank going to the Suns & Melo to the Cavs. To me,way too much. You project that others will join but that song was sung during the Melo years as well & here we are today! By the way, the KP that Melo paired up w/was Stat-they were the dynamic duo,remember?
RE: RE: Why would the Knicks leak that they are willing to offer
is true. If the Knicks trade this years'pick (Frank can't be traded until Aug 5th) & next years, you're hoping that KI,THJ,KP & WHG will form a nucleus that will propel the Knicks into the playoffs.What it propels them into is mediocrity. Kyrie is a superstar PG but Melo was a superstar SF & if we do this deal,we're back to post Melo trade. I love Kyrie's game but unless we can do Melo,Lee & a 2020/21 protected pick for KI, I say move Melo for young players and/or picks in this trade or to the Rockets(w/3rd team)
how is it the melo trade?
you giving up kp? no
you giving up thjr? no
you giving up willy? no
your giving up 2018 first? ok isnt ehat you hope for that pick to become is kyrie?
plus you dont think someone would want to come play with iriving and kp?
plus who was the kp that the knicms were pairing with melo?
You make good points & I'm not against getting KI but I think we have to see how many picks they're giving up. Jordan Schultz say both Cavs & Suns getting picks along w/Frank going to the Suns & Melo to the Cavs. To me,way too much. You project that others will join but that song was sung during the Melo years as well & here we are today! By the way, the KP that Melo paired up w/was Stat-they were the dynamic duo,remember?
jordan shulz is not a source, he is never right...
and i get people being nervous because of the melo trade but as long as kp or willy are not involved i am good..
mentally banning any Knicks fan on BBI, twitter, reddit, my friends etc that are okay with any Irving trade that involves KP. Just thought you guys should know lol
mentally banning any Knicks fan on BBI, twitter, reddit, my friends etc that are okay with any Irving trade that involves KP. Just thought you guys should know lol
there would be no point to do that...
at least if it is melo and a couple of firsts you have irving and kp...
Actually at the time of the trade,Stat was 28,Melo was 26
ok and stat was 28 going on 35 and you had nothing else...
if you make this trade you have kp and iriving with thjr and willy
But the year the trade was made,Stat was a NBA stud-hindsight's always 20/20.And after those 4,then what? You want the trade. I only want the trade if they don't give away the house (Frank/2 1sts).Let's see how it plays out!
Actually at the time of the trade,Stat was 28,Melo was 26
ok and stat was 28 going on 35 and you had nothing else...
if you make this trade you have kp and iriving with thjr and willy
But the year the trade was made,Stat was a NBA stud-hindsight's always 20/20.And after those 4,then what? You want the trade. I only want the trade if they don't give away the house (Frank/2 1sts).Let's see how it plays out!
my deal is melo and a couple of firsts, say 18 top 5 protected, 20 top 5 pritected..
thats it...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: also stat was 30 at that point
Actually at the time of the trade,Stat was 28,Melo was 26
ok and stat was 28 going on 35 and you had nothing else...
if you make this trade you have kp and iriving with thjr and willy
But the year the trade was made,Stat was a NBA stud-hindsight's always 20/20.And after those 4,then what? You want the trade. I only want the trade if they don't give away the house (Frank/2 1sts).Let's see how it plays out!
my deal is melo and a couple of firsts, say 18 top 5 protected, 20 top 5 pritected..
I think Melo and Frank is a solid foundation of any offer. Perhaps a top 10 protected pick if necessary.
If KP is going to be as good as most Knicks fans felt he was when Phil was dangling him around draft time then they are off to a great start.
I'm going to try to be optimistic about THJ as well because he's still young. If he can continue to improve along with H-Gomez then you have a nice collection of young talent that can grow up together while GS is still dominating and ready to compete beyond that.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: also stat was 30 at that point
id rather jist keep him, houston wants to give up nothing and get melo, fuck them
I agree,there's nothing from Houston of value but they'll line up a third team someway/somehow to get it done.It's why Knicks mgmt paused. The longer this soap opera goes on,the more impatient everyone gets. Knicks mgmt just has to play their cards right. Hell,if we get into late August & still nothing is completed,Melo might agree to Portland!
Because this kind of crap ONLY seems to happen in the NBA.
Only there would an athlete want to be traded because he doesn't want to share the spotlight.
As an outside observer Kyrie for Melo+ does make a lot of sense
especially if the Cavs can get a 3rd team involved that can send them a startable PG like Bledsoe. I personally think this is a big chance for the Cavs to do something that they needed to do but probably wouldn't have done.
porzingis in this deal you create championship teams by having young studs on cheap contracts. Porzingis is more valauable then kyrie because of his contract. It's easily a top 10 most valauable contract in the NBA right now.
I am more than willing to give up all of these pieces: Melo, Lee, Oquinn and include either of the 3 scenarios to close the deal:
1. would give up either Frank or a 2019 unprotected. I would like to keep 2018 pick because Knicks would still be on border of even making playoffs.
2. Willy and top 25 protected, then top 20 and then becomes 2 seconds
3. 2 protected #1s
Believe it or not Knicks aren't in too bad of shape in terms what they can offer. While Boston has all of these great assetS. I am not sure if they can get salaries to match. Would be interesting if Phili would offer Fultz and fillers to get it done.
the Cavs have decided to trade Irving, what other teams can offer the Cavs an ability to get a player that can score like Irving as well as youth in case Lebron leaves next year?
Knicks will live to regret giving up an unprotected 2018 1st, quote me
say it is melo and 2018 frst for kyire, wouldnt kyrie be what you want the 2018 pick to be?
And you build on that core how? No cap room and likely just good enough that you no longer have a shot at a high pick. So KP/Kyrie/THjr/Frank isnyiur core with no avenue to add another star. What does that do?
Knicks will live to regret giving up an unprotected 2018 1st, quote me
If you're able to get Kyrie Irving why would you regret giving up a first round pick? Odds are even if the pick somehow ends up being in the top 5 you aren't getting a guy that's as good as Irving. He's a top 10 player in the league.
Do the Knicks add a 3rd star if you give up your 2018 unprotected pick? And save me Frank being that guy or Willy being that guy. The second best player of all time with Irving and Love just got curb stomped by the Warriors.
Do the Knicks add a 3rd star if you give up your 2018 unprotected pick? And save me Frank being that guy or Willy being that guy. The second best player of all time with Irving and Love just got curb stomped by the Warriors.
umm how you adding a 3rd star if you are just adding a 2018 pick to the team?
Do the Knicks add a 3rd star if you give up your 2018 unprotected pick? And save me Frank being that guy or Willy being that guy. The second best player of all time with Irving and Love just got curb stomped by the Warriors.
They aren't setting up to play the Warriors. Nor the Celtics. Their window will be in 3 years, even with Irving, and by that point they will have the means to add a third star via FA.
With how weak the east is, it's almost unfathomable that the Knicks with Irving wouldn't be at least competing for a playoff spot.
Knicks will live to regret giving up an unprotected 2018 1st, quote me
If you're able to get Kyrie Irving why would you regret giving up a first round pick? Odds are even if the pick somehow ends up being in the top 5 you aren't getting a guy that's as good as Irving. He's a top 10 player in the league.
#1 he's not a top 10 player. He wasn't even top 20 in PER or WS/48 this season. He was 8th among PG's in PER.
#2 Again... you add Irving and he gets his money.... where are the Knicks adding to that? Where does that player come from? Capped out. 2019 1st? When your 2018 team with Irving minus Melo is almost certainly not picking high. KP/Irving/THjr/Frank that's your squad with no path to get better outside of KP becoming Dirk or THjr becoming some superstar.
Do the Knicks add a 3rd star if you give up your 2018 unprotected pick? And save me Frank being that guy or Willy being that guy. The second best player of all time with Irving and Love just got curb stomped by the Warriors.
umm how you adding a 3rd star if you are just adding a 2018 pick to the team?
Uh. You hope to draft one/add to the player you draft.
Do the Knicks add a 3rd star if you give up your 2018 unprotected pick? And save me Frank being that guy or Willy being that guy. The second best player of all time with Irving and Love just got curb stomped by the Warriors.
umm how you adding a 3rd star if you are just adding a 2018 pick to the team?
Uh. You hope to draft one/add to the player you draft.
so then you are in the same position you are in with kyrie and kp?...
Do the Knicks add a 3rd star if you give up your 2018 unprotected pick? And save me Frank being that guy or Willy being that guy. The second best player of all time with Irving and Love just got curb stomped by the Warriors.
They aren't setting up to play the Warriors. Nor the Celtics. Their window will be in 3 years, even with Irving, and by that point they will have the means to add a third star via FA.
With how weak the east is, it's almost unfathomable that the Knicks with Irving wouldn't be at least competing for a playoff spot.
Playoff spot does what? KP gets paid, Irving gets paid and... the Knicks best case is what over the next 2-3 years? Irving/KP/THjr as your top 3 does what? You can't even pretend to dream that's a force in the east outside of KP becoming Dirk 2.0
Do the Knicks add a 3rd star if you give up your 2018 unprotected pick? And save me Frank being that guy or Willy being that guy. The second best player of all time with Irving and Love just got curb stomped by the Warriors.
They aren't setting up to play the Warriors. Nor the Celtics. Their window will be in 3 years, even with Irving, and by that point they will have the means to add a third star via FA.
With how weak the east is, it's almost unfathomable that the Knicks with Irving wouldn't be at least competing for a playoff spot.
Playoff spot does what? KP gets paid, Irving gets paid and... the Knicks best case is what over the next 2-3 years? Irving/KP/THjr as your top 3 does what? You can't even pretend to dream that's a force in the east outside of KP becoming Dirk 2.0
Did you even read what I wrote?
Their window is 3 years from now. Who cares what happens the next 2-3 years. My only point about the playoffs was that their pick won't be that high.
Do the Knicks add a 3rd star if you give up your 2018 unprotected pick? And save me Frank being that guy or Willy being that guy. The second best player of all time with Irving and Love just got curb stomped by the Warriors.
When the core of your team is a 25 year old Irving, 21 year old Porzingis, and 18 year old Ntilikina you aren't on the same timeline as the Warriors. The important thing is to be able to move space before KP hits free agency to add another guy before you have to lock up KP to a big deal.
you can find the room to add a 3rd guy if someone wants to come...
irving, thjr, kp, willy is a pretty good young core, and then add in the unknown frank...
you can trade lee, thomas and kpq come off in the next couple of years, noah is the guy you got to try and sell off...
Try and sell off? You guys love the quick fix. Each and every time. "They can compete for a playoff spot!" who the fuck cares about being one of the top 8-9 teams in the east? That's the goal now? With no upward mobility? Kyrie Irving is very good, he's not Chris Paul in his prime.
Do the Knicks add a 3rd star if you give up your 2018 unprotected pick? And save me Frank being that guy or Willy being that guy. The second best player of all time with Irving and Love just got curb stomped by the Warriors.
When the core of your team is a 25 year old Irving, 21 year old Porzingis, and 18 year old Ntilikina you aren't on the same timeline as the Warriors. The important thing is to be able to move space before KP hits free agency to add another guy before you have to lock up KP to a big deal.
Did I miss the Celtics, Bucks and Wizards having young talent? Bucks aren't on the same timeline as us with an MVP caliber player already on the roster?
timeline are the Wolves on? Bucks? Wizards? Celtics? Sixers? Suns? Kings? All of these teams are loaded/loading up on young talent. The Knicks are in some alternate universe where that trio is challenging for a ring in the next 2-3 years?
you can find the room to add a 3rd guy if someone wants to come...
irving, thjr, kp, willy is a pretty good young core, and then add in the unknown frank...
you can trade lee, thomas and kpq come off in the next couple of years, noah is the guy you got to try and sell off...
Try and sell off? You guys love the quick fix. Each and every time. "They can compete for a playoff spot!" who the fuck cares about being one of the top 8-9 teams in the east? That's the goal now? With no upward mobility? Kyrie Irving is very good, he's not Chris Paul in his prime.
dan with all due respect wtf are you talking about?
if you add kyrie and get rid of 2018 pick you have kyrie, thjr kp, willy and frank...
if you dont add kyrie, you 2018 pick, kp, willy thjr and frank...
The 2018 pick allows you to potentially add a budget friendly star which allows you to add a max player in the future. Where are the Knicks adding a third star with a maxed out KP and Irving? Michael Porter jr allows you to dream on building a championship roster. Irving deal will be very similar to the Melo trade if they give up an unprotected 2018 1. Quote me. Write it down. Bookmark it. He's good, very good. Not special. Not A #1 star
timeline are the Wolves on? Bucks? Wizards? Celtics? Sixers? Suns? Kings? All of these teams are loaded/loading up on young talent. The Knicks are in some alternate universe where that trio is challenging for a ring in the next 2-3 years?
Yes, those are the teams the Knicks will competing against.
Breaking news Dan: There is a lot of good young talent in the NBA. If you don't think 28 year old Irving, THJR and 25 year old KP, Willy, plus another max player, aren't competitive in that group, then something has gone disastrously wrong with their development.
Been a Knick fan long enough to know how this goes. Fans approve every move that involves a "star name" regardless of the cost. They could deal Melo 2018, 2020, 2022 and people on here would still support the move. 100% fact
The 2018 pick allows you to potentially add a budget friendly star which allows you to add a max player in the future. Where are the Knicks adding a third star with a maxed out KP and Irving? Michael Porter jr allows you to dream on building a championship roster. Irving deal will be very similar to the Melo trade if they give up an unprotected 2018 1. Quote me. Write it down. Bookmark it. He's good, very good. Not special. Not A #1 star
Been a Knick fan long enough to know how this goes. Fans approve every move that involves a "star name" regardless of the cost. They could deal Melo 2018, 2020, 2022 and people on here would still support the move. 100% fact
You have such a weird stance on this and are firmly in the minority.
It's one thing to mortgage the future for a star that will get them nowhere. Irving is 25. He is only getting better and could be a Knick for the next decade.
Melo is on the way out anyway. His value to the Knicks is negative. If the cost for Irving is Frank and a 1st, so be it. That's pennies on the dollar for Irving's relative value in the league.
Been a Knick fan long enough to know how this goes. Fans approve every move that involves a "star name" regardless of the cost. They could deal Melo 2018, 2020, 2022 and people on here would still support the move. 100% fact
You have such a weird stance on this and are firmly in the minority.
It's one thing to mortgage the future for a star that will get them nowhere. Irving is 25. He is only getting better and could be a Knick for the next decade.
Melo is on the way out anyway. His value to the Knicks is negative. If the cost for Irving is Frank and a 1st, so be it. That's pennies on the dollar for Irving's relative value in the league.
and either eay trade for irving or dont trade for irving you are maxed out, you are not adding any ody if you dont trade for irving...
so it is as simple as do you want irving for the 2018 player?
Been a Knick fan long enough to know how this goes. Fans approve every move that involves a "star name" regardless of the cost. They could deal Melo 2018, 2020, 2022 and people on here would still support the move. 100% fact
You have such a weird stance on this and are firmly in the minority.
It's one thing to mortgage the future for a star that will get them nowhere. Irving is 25. He is only getting better and could be a Knick for the next decade.
Melo is on the way out anyway. His value to the Knicks is negative. If the cost for Irving is Frank and a 1st, so be it. That's pennies on the dollar for Irving's relative value in the league.
Minority here maybe, in Knicks Reddit people are majority in agreement not to give up 2018 unprotected. BBI doesn't speak for the world. You flip flop quite a bit yourself namely on Frank, wanting him then one day being against taking him and now loving him again
and the Suns (for example) are happy with Frank to replace Bledsoe, I don't see why we have to start throwing around first rounders anyway. The Cavs are either making a "win now" move or a "post-Lebron rebuild" move - they can't have everything.
Exchange Kuz for Frank, since you technically can't trade Frank in the trade machine.
For the Suns: Get rid of Knight's salary, trade Bledsoe for Frank, which lines up more with the rest of their team. Save a bunch of salary. Think this is a no brainer for them.
For the Cavs: Simple, move Kyrie for Bledsoe and Melo. They are arguably a better team now and add two of Lebron's buds.
For the Knicks: Also pretty simple. Melo and Frank for Kyrie.
Been a Knick fan long enough to know how this goes. Fans approve every move that involves a "star name" regardless of the cost. They could deal Melo 2018, 2020, 2022 and people on here would still support the move. 100% fact
You have such a weird stance on this and are firmly in the minority.
It's one thing to mortgage the future for a star that will get them nowhere. Irving is 25. He is only getting better and could be a Knick for the next decade.
Melo is on the way out anyway. His value to the Knicks is negative. If the cost for Irving is Frank and a 1st, so be it. That's pennies on the dollar for Irving's relative value in the league.
Minority here maybe, in Knicks Reddit people are majority in agreement not to give up 2018 unprotected. BBI doesn't speak for the world. You flip flop quite a bit yourself namely on Frank, wanting him then one day being against taking him and now loving him again
When was I ever against Frank? I've been consistently pro-Frank.
Been a Knick fan long enough to know how this goes. Fans approve every move that involves a "star name" regardless of the cost. They could deal Melo 2018, 2020, 2022 and people on here would still support the move. 100% fact
Nice strawman. Literally not one person here has said, "Get Irving regardless of the cost." I haven't even seen one person advocate trading what amounts to 3 first rounders (Frank & 2 picks or 3 picks).
Here's what I don't understand... people who wanted to burn Phil Jackson's house down over KP trade rumors are now acting like it's too much to expect him to be really good in the next 2 years or eventually be the best player on a championship team. If he wasn't capable of doing those things, what the hell was all the complaining about when the trade rumors happened?
I also don't understand people comparing this in any way to the Melo trade. The Knicks problem post-Melo trade were first, STAT falling apart (while being EXTREMELY expensive) and the team having no young talent outside of Iman Shumpert and the 5 minutes they had Jeremy Lin. This situation is the antithesis of the post-Melo trade... they'd be building around 4 YOUNG players.
Been a Knick fan long enough to know how this goes. Fans approve every move that involves a "star name" regardless of the cost. They could deal Melo 2018, 2020, 2022 and people on here would still support the move. 100% fact
You have such a weird stance on this and are firmly in the minority.
It's one thing to mortgage the future for a star that will get them nowhere. Irving is 25. He is only getting better and could be a Knick for the next decade.
Melo is on the way out anyway. His value to the Knicks is negative. If the cost for Irving is Frank and a 1st, so be it. That's pennies on the dollar for Irving's relative value in the league.
Minority here maybe, in Knicks Reddit people are majority in agreement not to give up 2018 unprotected. BBI doesn't speak for the world. You flip flop quite a bit yourself namely on Frank, wanting him then one day being against taking him and now loving him again
When was I ever against Frank? I've been consistently pro-Frank.
He had an awful game and suddenly you were pro DSJ. It was during the French league playoffs.
Been a Knick fan long enough to know how this goes. Fans approve every move that involves a "star name" regardless of the cost. They could deal Melo 2018, 2020, 2022 and people on here would still support the move. 100% fact
Nice strawman. Literally not one person here has said, "Get Irving regardless of the cost." I haven't even seen one person advocate trading what amounts to 3 first rounders (Frank & 2 picks or 3 picks).
Here's what I don't understand... people who wanted to burn Phil Jackson's house down over KP trade rumors are now acting like it's too much to expect him to be really good in the next 2 years or eventually be the best player on a championship team. If he wasn't capable of doing those things, what the hell was all the complaining about when the trade rumors happened?
I also don't understand people comparing this in any way to the Melo trade. The Knicks problem post-Melo trade were first, STAT falling apart (while being EXTREMELY expensive) and the team having no young talent outside of Iman Shumpert and the 5 minutes they had Jeremy Lin. This situation is the antithesis of the post-Melo trade... they'd be building around 4 YOUNG players.
People defend every move the Knicks make on here. That includes Bargnani and Noah. People were flat out blasting me for hating the Noah deal (not that I was the only one who hated it) but numerous people who on this very thread were defending it (and the Bargnani trade) some on this very thread were okay bringing back Rose (nygiants16 at least once advocated a 3 year deal if the money wasn't "crazy").
The last good trade the Knicks made was probly for Marbury
Do the Knicks add a 3rd star if you give up your 2018 unprotected pick? And save me Frank being that guy or Willy being that guy. The second best player of all time with Irving and Love just got curb stomped by the Warriors.
When the core of your team is a 25 year old Irving, 21 year old Porzingis, and 18 year old Ntilikina you aren't on the same timeline as the Warriors. The important thing is to be able to move space before KP hits free agency to add another guy before you have to lock up KP to a big deal.
Did I miss the Celtics, Bucks and Wizards having young talent? Bucks aren't on the same timeline as us with an MVP caliber player already on the roster?
Your point is what? I referenced the Warriors because that is the team that you cited in regards to Lebron and Irving getting curb stomped. So since other teams in the east have young talent we should just pack it in for the next 10 years? Again, there is no guarantee the 2018 pick ends up being a player of Irvings caliber. Teams like the 76ers tank for all those years hoping they end up with a player like that.
Birdy just gave me some info.. Irving leaked this flat out. Requested a deal to the Bulls. Cavs said no. Said if they found a fair deal from a team they would consider it. Never got back to him, they spoke again. Said they wouldn't deal him... now this.
Birdy just gave me some info.. Irving leaked this flat out. Requested a deal to the Bulls. Cavs said no. Said if they found a fair deal from a team they would consider it. Never got back to him, they spoke again. Said they wouldn't deal him... now this.
it makes sense, irving wants out and he wants to make it uncomfortable so they trade him...
hard to keep irving with everything that is leaking
Kyries flags are..
Injurys (mild to moderate flag)
Flat earther (he's stupid as a person )
He wants out of Cleveland NOW (why not wait a year or two before demanding out? Bad character? Selfish?)
Zero Defense. zero.
So Kyrie is def a top 20 player but can't give away unprotected 1sts (plural) and Melo, a guy who ensures they still have an easy shot at winning the east. Would take a ton of scoring stress off LeBron. They'd have 4 PFs tho in Love, Melo and LeBron but Bron would make it work to win the east.
Melo, any player not named willy, KP or Frank + 2 protected 1st round picks
I'll take back Kyrie, and any bad contract besides Thompson.
They apparently are close but I guess he likes the city as well. They did engage the Bulls but there was no match and then Butler was traded. Chicago is an odd choice however. I guess he saw Butler as a superstar but one that wouldn't take his shine.
Last weekend at a basketball camp in Latvia attended by about 250 children, one youngster asked Porzingis in his native tongue why he wouldnt abandon New York, and Porzingis sounded as if hes committed for the long haul.
According to an English translation obtained by The Post, Porzingis answered:
I feel that it is the best place to win. And if you win in New York, you are king. For the last two years, I have had so many positive emotions here that this is where I want to stay and that this is where I want to win.
Headlines, wolves stars recruiting kyrie Irving. They literally have nothing to trade for him unless they trade Wiggins, which would make 0 sense with Teague at PG
Over next year's first rounder? That's absolutely the wrong move. You don't deal today's talent for tomorrow's talent especially when you factor in that frank was a consensus top ten pick in a deep draft. You're likely not picking top ten next year and the 2018 draft isn't nearly as deep.
You're gonna have to give to get irvin. I'm not 100% in love with him but I'd deal a future first and melo in a heartbeat. And I'd most definitely deal the pick over Willy or frank.
Melo plus one and filler might be a pipe dream but i just don't know if it's worth it to trade melo plus two for Irvin. Even though the book might say it's fair I'm not sure the knicks can afford to give that much.
You can sell it if the knicks are building around Irvin, KP, frank, hardaway and Gomez with no 2018 pick. It might not be ideal but at least it's something to work with. Can't give up Frank or Gomez and a quality pick.
I also don't think it's likely the knicks are super high lottery picking next even if they didn't land Irvin. They will be close to or at the 30 win mark most likely. If they land Irvin maybe 40. I'd be ok dealing the 12th pick or so. And it could be high teens.
Frank, WH, and first rounders. Although i wouldnt want to trade Frank and WH, but any other combo. Id like to do something like top 3 protect the 2018 pick. You are replacing one of those two assets with Kyrie Irving which is a damn good player. So your really only giving up one other asset to get a player of Kyrie's caliber and his contract isnt even that bad (yet). If KP progresses like we hope he does I think you can def build around KP/Irving and i think if a star hits the market you might be able to get into the convo (again assuming KP progresses).
Been a Knick fan long enough to know how this goes. Fans approve every move that involves a "star name" regardless of the cost. They could deal Melo 2018, 2020, 2022 and people on here would still support the move. 100% fact
You have such a weird stance on this and are firmly in the minority.
It's one thing to mortgage the future for a star that will get them nowhere. Irving is 25. He is only getting better and could be a Knick for the next decade.
I'm not trying to to play contrarian or troll when I ask this, but why is everyone so sure that Kyrie gets them anywhere?
I don't know how this differs from what we just did wasting the prime years of a top 10 player who got them to 2 playoff appearances. The main difference is KP is likely a future all star, which wasn't a thing when they traded for Carmelo, but what does that make the Knicks? Good enough to make the playoffs if it all works, but not good enough to win.
people just obsessed with super teams? Why else is the Wolves recruiting Kyrie a story? He has absolutely ZERO say. What's he going to do? "Trade me there or I won't sign with team X despite being under contract for 2 more years"? Strange non-story
Transactions drive media often times more than games and results do.
it depends what else the knicks do. You arent adding Irving and then closing up shop. You hope that KP becomes a top 10-15 player in the league and then you make some shrewd signings and maybe you get another Irving level player to come sign here. Im not saying it happens im 100% using him as an example, but what if you added a Paul George this offseason. Could a team of
Irving
THJR
George
KP
WH
compete in the east? If KP progressed i think they could. Now can they beat GS? No, but if your only goal is to beat GSW then you might as well trade every asset for picks and just hope you suck long enough to get a few top 5 picks and that by the time they are good the warriors are old.
That's what I have a huge problem with. We're depending on the Knicks and hoping they learned from the Melo years, but I haven't seen anything that tells me that things have changed.
6 years, 3 general managers, 4.5 head coaches and some crazy number of 80-something different teammates since the trade and they couldn't put it together.
I don't know anything about this Perry guy, but the rest of the people responsible for that are still there and apparently have enough clout that a respected executive with playoffs teams in his resume was turned away because they wouldn't let him run it his way.
Now I'm not shouting conspiracies or anything, but confidence in THIS group?
The Suns are viewed as the wildcard for Irving. They will not consider moving Booker but Chriss is probably as good of a chip as they are going to find.
Lebron, Melo, Bledsoe, courtney Lee and Oquinn. Obviously in this scenario they are getting at least 1 if. It 2 first round picks. But forgetting the picks for a second which team has a better chance vs. Golden state. Assuming Rose signs. A bench of Rose, Lee, Korver and OQuinn isn't bad. Just need a athletic defender off the bench as well.
Kyrie was a first overall pick? If you have to give up next years pick to get him you do it PRONTO. He's what you are looking for in a first round pick AND he's only 25. Now they would have to be smart about what other asset besides Melo they give up obviously
but his injury history does concern me. Also the fact that he wouldn't want to play with the best player in the world and go for another title is concerning. Is playing with LeBron for one more year that much of an issue?
but his injury history does concern me. Also the fact that he wouldn't want to play with the best player in the world and go for another title is concerning. Is playing with LeBron for one more year that much of an issue?
Here's likely more going on than what's being reported. My guess is he had a falling out with LeBron and the "LeBron was blind sided" reports are bogus.
Why would Melo want to go the Cavs if Kyrie is not there and it is likely that James will be leaving next year?
If the Knicks do trade for Kyrie they would be better off not trading Carmelo. The team would be looking to win and Irving, Melo, KP would be a good (3). The Knicks could trade (2) protected DPs + Frank + other pieces for Irving.
Why would Melo want to go the Cavs if Kyrie is not there and it is likely that James will be leaving next year?
If the Knicks do trade for Kyrie they would be better off not trading Carmelo. The team would be looking to win and Irving, Melo, KP would be a good (3). The Knicks could trade (2) protected DPs + Frank + other pieces for Irving.
melo has an opt out, he can opt out just like lebron can...
no you trade for irving the plan would be build around him and kp, not melo...
The Suns are viewed as the wildcard for Irving. They will not consider moving Booker but Chriss is probably as good of a chip as they are going to find.
Makes a lot of sense for Cleveland since they can give them help for one last run with Lebron and prepare them for the future but I don't understand it from Phoenix's POV. Kyrie and Booker is an odd match given that they both don't do much outside of scoring and defensively they would be horrific. That's why i think that the 3-way deal with Love make sure more sense especially if they want to hold onto Chriss which it certainly seemed like prior to Kyrie being on the market.
I happen to love Fox as a prospect but he is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Cleveland needs shooters, LBJ is the distributor. Fox would help their perimeter defense but you are sort of wasting him as a perpetrator.
Melo is way better than Fox for where Cleveland is. And Fox + any player on the Kings isn't better than Melo + Hernangomez for example.
The value of youth while high for most teams i'd say is by far lower for the Lebron's than any other team because he leaves next year if the team isn't championship calendar.
I happen to love Fox as a prospect but he is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Cleveland needs shooters, LBJ is the distributor. Fox would help their perimeter defense but you are sort of wasting him as a perpetrator.
Melo is way better than Fox for where Cleveland is. And Fox + any player on the Kings isn't better than Melo + Hernangomez for example.
The value of youth while high for most teams i'd say is by far lower for the Lebron's than any other team because he leaves next year if the team isn't championship calendar.
Which is why Frank shouldn't be part of a deal for Kyrie.
I'd do Melo, O'Quinn, and a top 15 protected 2018 1st turns into 2019 1st for Kyrie and Shumpert.
That's the second time you acted like you have some kind of inside info. Is there a reason you're not elaborating? Do you know him? Did he get you pregnant? I mean, why the cryptic messages? If you know something, tell us.
RE: RE: RE: Sacramento reportedly will offer Fox in a Kyrie deal.
I happen to love Fox as a prospect but he is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Cleveland needs shooters, LBJ is the distributor. Fox would help their perimeter defense but you are sort of wasting him as a perpetrator.
Melo is way better than Fox for where Cleveland is. And Fox + any player on the Kings isn't better than Melo + Hernangomez for example.
The value of youth while high for most teams i'd say is by far lower for the Lebron's than any other team because he leaves next year if the team isn't championship calendar.
Which is why Frank shouldn't be part of a deal for Kyrie.
I'd do Melo, O'Quinn, and a top 15 protected 2018 1st turns into 2019 1st for Kyrie and Shumpert.
You might need to move Frank to get Bledsoe or another PG though.
I don't think the Cavs move Kyrie without getting an NBA ready PG that can play perimeter D. In your trade who guards opposing PGs? You trade away Shump who is the only player capable of that. Cavs won't make that trade.
I happen to love Fox as a prospect but he is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Cleveland needs shooters, LBJ is the distributor. Fox would help their perimeter defense but you are sort of wasting him as a perpetrator.
Melo is way better than Fox for where Cleveland is. And Fox + any player on the Kings isn't better than Melo + Hernangomez for example.
The value of youth while high for most teams i'd say is by far lower for the Lebron's than any other team because he leaves next year if the team isn't championship calendar.
Which is why Frank shouldn't be part of a deal for Kyrie.
I'd do Melo, O'Quinn, and a top 15 protected 2018 1st turns into 2019 1st for Kyrie and Shumpert.
From your lips to god's ears. But that's a trash offer to the cavs. O'Quinn is an ok player but nothing special nor will he ever be anything special and a top 15 protected pick is even worse. You're not getting Irvin for that.
he has in the trade situation so I don't want to spill the beans on a personal matter until things become clearer. But I will say I'm pretty sure the reason NY is on the list is because of where he group up (though he'd be extremely reticent to play for Dolan), and the reason SA is on the list is also more than basketball.
ran pretty quick. Not really hearing much since Friday when it broke.
I think that is to be expected. No way they pull the trigger on a deal before thoroughly evaluating that market AND doing everything they can to change Kyrie's mind.
in the drivers seat if they are smart and see the forest through the trees.
This, of course, all hinges on Lebron. He's already spurned them once so they have to understand that loyalty to his team/home is likely at the bottom of the list. If he commits to wanting to stay beyond his opt out, then I would stay the course and try to improve the team in any way. But I'd still be hesitant about it so I'd try to get him to extend. He won't do that, as expected, and then the team would need to make a decision on it.
If he's wishy washy about staying in CLE (or even states he will leave - unlikely) then I'd move forward with a full rebuild. They have valuable pieces that could get them set up for the future in a big way. Screw Lebron. Let him wither in his own game.
Ego, man.
Cleveland is quietly a TERRIBLY run team. I think we dodged a bullet with their GM.
Kyrie
Hardaway Jr
LeBron
Melo
Porzingis
That team beats GS!
Haha
Cleveland is quietly a TERRIBLY run team. I think we dodged a bullet with their GM.
Is that it? Or is it an illustration of what an awful idea it is to allow your superstar to be the de facto GM?
Cleveland is quietly a TERRIBLY run team. I think we dodged a bullet with their GM.
The guys they gave ridiculous contracts to were all guys LeBron wanted them to re-sign at any cost. Now he's ready to bounce.
Irvings agent Jeff Wechsler would not confirm or deny whether Irving asked for a trade.
Kyrie and I had a meeting with Cavs leadership where we discussed many different scenarios in reference to Kyrie and his future with the team, Wechsler told ESPNs Adrian Wojnarowski. The basis of those discussions and what went on in those discussions are between the Cavs and us. We are respectfully going to keep those private.
That's probably a good idea. That team is fucked after next season if they stay the course here.
Well, the Cavs always struck me as an organization that doesn't really try hard that much. They were just able to sign LeBron, and they were able to draft some good players and some valuable trade assets on account of sucking.
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I wonder if LeBron roughed him up after the series.
Cleveland is quietly a TERRIBLY run team. I think we dodged a bullet with their GM.
The guys they gave ridiculous contracts to were all guys LeBron wanted them to re-sign at any cost. Now he's ready to bounce.
Lebron did the same thing when he bounced the first time. He forced their hand into acquiring a bunch of overpriced names and then booked when he realized he couldn't win there.
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I wonder if LeBron roughed him up after the series.
Cleveland is quietly a TERRIBLY run team. I think we dodged a bullet with their GM.
Is that it? Or is it an illustration of what an awful idea it is to allow your superstar to be the de facto GM?
But that in itself is a symptom of being a terribly run team.
Cats send Kyrie and Tristan Kardashian to NY for Melo, O'Quinn and Lee. Nice
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I wonder if LeBron roughed him up after the series.
Cleveland is quietly a TERRIBLY run team. I think we dodged a bullet with their GM.
Is that it? Or is it an illustration of what an awful idea it is to allow your superstar to be the de facto GM?
Same thing. Part of being terribly run is letting LeBron dictate that you resign every dumbfuck.
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the Warriors not only beat them, but ripped out their hearts too. They don't even want to try again.
Well, the Cavs always struck me as an organization that doesn't really try hard that much. They were just able to sign LeBron, and they were able to draft some good players and some valuable trade assets on account of sucking.
It was just straight luck to get FOUR first overall picks in a dozen years despite having the worst record just once. The Lakers look well run now, but they were lucky as fuck to not only keep their first round pick, but move up a spot too (and get the biggest name player).
For all of the talk about well run franchises, this sport more than any other involves luck due to the lottery system and stars winning the championships.
Capela+ contracts for LeBron
It's really not crazy. They're the next best positioned team to run at GSW.
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In comment 13535065 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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the Warriors not only beat them, but ripped out their hearts too. They don't even want to try again.
Well, the Cavs always struck me as an organization that doesn't really try hard that much. They were just able to sign LeBron, and they were able to draft some good players and some valuable trade assets on account of sucking.
It was just straight luck to get FOUR first overall picks in a dozen years despite having the worst record just once. The Lakers look well run now, but they were lucky as fuck to not only keep their first round pick, but move up a spot too (and get the biggest name player).
For all of the talk about well run franchises, this sport more than any other involves luck due to the lottery system and stars winning the championships.
Except GSW is built on a mid lotto pick, a late lotto pick, a 2nd round pick, and good cap management. Kobe wasnt an elite pick (even if the Nets would have taken him) and then LA drew out Shaq. Miami combined a #5 pick with cap space to built a dream team.
Otherwise, you're better off going to the Finals with him again (raking in that dough), then decide if you want to trade Kyrie too at that point.
If all of this is true, I'd try to trade Kevin Love IMMEDIATELY!!!!
Could be applying pressure to the Cavs,there off season hasn't gone very well.
Except GSW is built on a mid lotto pick, a late lotto pick, a 2nd round pick, and good cap management. Kobe wasnt an elite pick (even if the Nets would have taken him) and then LA drew out Shaq. Miami combined a #5 pick with cap space to built a dream team.
I don't see how drafting a future MVP after the likes of Rubio and Jonny Flynn are selected isn't considered luck. IDK about you, but I definitely thought he was better than those guys before the draft.
Otherwise, you're better off going to the Finals with him again (raking in that dough), then decide if you want to trade Kyrie too at that point.
If all of this is true, I'd try to trade Kevin Love IMMEDIATELY!!!!
Probably right. That's also a bad fan base to pitch on the idea of "we're gonna get high picks and rebuild".
They should trade off Love and try to get a lot more athletic. Trade skill for athletes, see if that works. Figure out a way to get an athletic center and try to win with rebounding, defense, power. If Kyrie stays.
Sure. But that's 3 of the 4 recent multi-title winners (ex Spurs) that werent built around landing a #1 overall pick and building from there.
Except GSW is built on a mid lotto pick, a late lotto pick, a 2nd round pick, and good cap management.
People forget this now, but GSW also took some risks that were fairly criticized at the time, especially by its own fan base. You can't say that the new ownership is one that does not try. In fact, you could say that early on, their gall to try was almost considered unwelcome and out of character to a fan base that kind of gave up on being a playoff powerhouse and just wanted the team to at least be entertaining.
and then having to hear about how much help lebron needs and how hard it is for him to carry everyone.
A team that was winning games in the 20's, finishing in last place, and missing the playoffs entirely.
Kyrie is a really good player, but if he thinks he's going to be the best player on a championship caliber team, he's in for a rude awakening.
Clevis MurrayVerified account @ClevisMurray 2m2 minutes ago
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The San Antonio Spurs are Kyrie Irving's "preferred" destination. (Via ESPN)
A team that was winning games in the 20's, finishing in last place, and missing the playoffs entirely.
Kyrie is a really good player, but if he thinks he's going to be the best player on a championship caliber team, he's in for a rude awakening.
I get what you're saying, but Kyrie has a made a leap and is a better player now than he was then
A team that was winning games in the 20's, finishing in last place, and missing the playoffs entirely.
Kyrie is a really good player, but if he thinks he's going to be the best player on a championship caliber team, he's in for a rude awakening.
I have my doubts that he could carry a team as the #1 guy. I have my doubts that's his motivation, I think it's a kick in the ass to the front office and owner to get their shit together.
Has Cleveland somehow become an even shittier place to live in the last year?
Kyrie will never be the best player on a Championship team. He's an incredible offensive player and is the closest thing I've probably ever seen to Iverson, but he doesn't play defense and he's not a good facilitator, either.
Kyrie has one of the most devastating handles in the league and is impossible to guard 1 on 1. I love watching him. All I'm saying is that if he thinks he's going to find greener pastures where he's the Alpha dog on a team that is playing in the Finals, he's sorely mistaken.
My face when I read LeBron was "surprised and disappointed" hearing about this...
LeBron is obviously "surprised and disappointed" Kyrie tried to beat it out of the door before he could.
from new jersey
@xOrtiz4x
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Sources: Bucks and Suns have reached out to Cavs in regards to Kyrie Irving. Deal around Jabari Parker/Eric Bledsoe plus other young assets.
Some of you guys are like beaten dogs when it comes to the Knicks.
Kyrie - 25 yo
KP - 22 yo
Willy - 23 yo
THJ - 25 yo at the start of this upcoming season.
Not the worst thing in the world.
Quote:
doesnt want to live there anymore.
Has Cleveland somehow become an even shittier place to live in the last year?
It's improved a lot, kind of nice now actually
Top 10 protected without thinking twice.
No protection needed.
That's a no brainer.
If the deals are STARTING with Jabari Parker and Eric Bledsoe, I think I can get it done without including KP.
To be fair, all of this is nonsense because it would be dumb to trade Kyrie (or LeBron before next offseason).
I also just wouldnt go nuts for Kyrie. I kind of want a few years where KP is forced to be the man, so he struggles and learns from it.
LOL where do I sign for that? I wouldn't even need half a second to make that call.
A team that was winning games in the 20's, finishing in last place, and missing the playoffs entirely.
Kyrie is a really good player, but if he thinks he's going to be the best player on a championship caliber team, he's in for a rude awakening.
x10000
if lebron left, melo would just opt out and follow lebron
Knicks are left with
Knicks main pieces are Kyrie, THJ, Porz and Willy.
It's a perfect fit.
@xOrtiz4x
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Sources: Bucks and Suns have reached out to Cavs in regards to Kyrie Irving. Deal around Jabari Parker/Eric Bledsoe plus other young assets.
same guy says knicks have stopped talks with houston to focus on trades for irving
Quote:
How quickly people forget what the Cavs were with Kyrie before LeBron returned.
A team that was winning games in the 20's, finishing in last place, and missing the playoffs entirely.
Kyrie is a really good player, but if he thinks he's going to be the best player on a championship caliber team, he's in for a rude awakening.
x10000
Be careful what you wish for Kyrie. He is in for a rude awakening.
Quote:
Mike Ortiz Jr.
@xOrtiz4x
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Sources: Bucks and Suns have reached out to Cavs in regards to Kyrie Irving. Deal around Jabari Parker/Eric Bledsoe plus other young assets.
same guy says knicks have stopped talks with houston to focus on trades for irving
Who is "some guy"
Knicks are left with
Knicks main pieces are Kyrie, THJ, Porz and Willy.
Frank or a #1. Knicks arent going anywhere soon anyway. But Im not hyper excited about possibly getting Kyrie. I might be if KP was a year older, and if the cap wasnted F'd up with Noah and Thomas and THJR. As it stands, I think the 2018 #1 is really, really important.
Quote:
In comment 13535222 DanMetroMan said:
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Mike Ortiz Jr.
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Sources: Bucks and Suns have reached out to Cavs in regards to Kyrie Irving. Deal around Jabari Parker/Eric Bledsoe plus other young assets.
same guy says knicks have stopped talks with houston to focus on trades for irving
Who is "some guy"
same guy has who dan quoted
I don't know how salaries match and all that but they can have Courtney Lee too.
Now if you have that core in place and another 1st round pick, that's a really nice start.
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In comment 13535262 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13535222 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Mike Ortiz Jr.
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Sources: Bucks and Suns have reached out to Cavs in regards to Kyrie Irving. Deal around Jabari Parker/Eric Bledsoe plus other young assets.
same guy says knicks have stopped talks with houston to focus on trades for irving
Who is "some guy"
same guy has who dan quoted
Oh my bad, I misread.
I don't know how salaries match and all that but they can have Courtney Lee too.
Now if you have that core in place and another 1st round pick, that's a really nice start.
Dude they can have MSG while they're at it. Trade anything and everything not bolted to the ground, and not named KP. GET IT DONE PERRY/MILL/HOUSTON/DOLAN/WHOEVER THE FUCK IS RUNNING THIS TEAM!!!!
Kyrie, THJr, Willy & KP is a pretty good nucleus.
Part of the issue is that Im not a huge Kyrie believer. But much more important is, I cant come up with a story where we trade Frank and Melo and a #1 for Kyrie and we're relevant in the next 2-3 years. Maybe we push for the playoffs, then push to win a round. Fair enough. But maybe Kyrie stunts KP's growth. Maybe Kyrie keeps us good enough to be a late lottery team this year, starving us of the high pick we could really use. And Kyrie is ready for his prime while the other guys we have are 100% not ready.
Well yeah, I meant more during the spring and summer. There's some nice spots on the water. I'm not saying it's NYC, but it's improved. In the winter, yeah, stay away
because of the pending KP max (which is going to be huge) and the presence of Hardaway, Noah, and Lee on the books, I don't know that there's going to be an opportunity to add a max level player to a KP/Frank/Willy core via cap space.
Part of the issue is that Im not a huge Kyrie believer. But much more important is, I cant come up with a story where we trade Frank and Melo and a #1 for Kyrie and we're relevant in the next 2-3 years. Maybe we push for the playoffs, then push to win a round. Fair enough. But maybe Kyrie stunts KP's growth. Maybe Kyrie keeps us good enough to be a late lottery team this year, starving us of the high pick we could really use. And Kyrie is ready for his prime while the other guys we have are 100% not ready.
If this is true, then KP is not (and will not be) as good as BBI has led me to believe he is.
Nice!
Nice!
Help us out hitdog - tell him to do business with the Knicks! You see how long we've suffered.
That said, there are limited opportunities to add top 15 or so players in league. Even fewer to do that when the player is 25. The Knicks need to make a move on this and do what it takes IMO.
ESPN Sources: On Kyrie Irving front, Cavs were given four preferred landing spots: New York, Miami, San Antonio, Minnesota.
Rapaport - ( New Window )
If Capela is part of the deal then I'd take on Andersons contract
Melo and Thomas and Melo waives the trade kicker
For
Capela and Anderson and Qi or Hartenstein
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In the world of cap management and windows, I think it makes a lot of sense to keep Frank, create cap space, and try to sign someone when Frank, KP, and friends are humming along.
because of the pending KP max (which is going to be huge) and the presence of Hardaway, Noah, and Lee on the books, I don't know that there's going to be an opportunity to add a max level player to a KP/Frank/Willy core via cap space.
KP's new contract will kick in for 2020-21. I believe it lines up that we can fit a max guy summer 2019, and maybe 2 max guys in 2020 (or close to it) if KP doesnt resign early (i.e. if he goes into summer 2020 as a cap hold and not on the new deal).
Summer 2020, everyone is off contract except THJR (fucking player option) and Frank's option. So even signing KP, we have a max deal. Maybe even with Willy's hold. But the #1s will start to add up too, as will a fresh layer of dumb signings.
we can't sign and trade Rose at this point. We had to renounce his rights so that we had cap room for Hardaway.
I don't think they throw in Capela under ANY circumstances. Anything else on the roster outside of CP3, Beard, and Capela is available. To be honest, I don't even need him. I'll take multiple UNPROTECTED firsts and players with contracts that expire by 2019. (Of course that means they have to find non-existent team to take Anderson.)
So that's not going to help
Wolves- Patton, Bjelica, Dieng, Tyus Jones
Miami- Adebayo, Winslow, Richarson
Quote:
Obviously if this whole situation is a legit possibility they do have interest in Rose but can only supposedly offer him 2.5. If we help them get Rose then in theory we would get something back so if Melo and a first could get Irving then that piece we get back could be a top ten protection on the pick. Thought?
we can't sign and trade Rose at this point. We had to renounce his rights so that we had cap room for Hardaway.
Haha. How could I forget. Thanks.
Wolves- Patton, Bjelica, Dieng, Tyus Jones
Miami- Adebayo, Winslow, Richarson
In other words, shit on a stick
Quote:
it turns the heat up on Morey a little. Throw in Capela and maybe we'll turn our attention back to you.
I don't think they throw in Capela under ANY circumstances. Anything else on the roster outside of CP3, Beard, and Capela is available. To be honest, I don't even need him. I'll take multiple UNPROTECTED firsts and players with contracts that expire by 2019. (Of course that means they have to find non-existent team to take Anderson.)
lol
Agreed but what is Cleveland's goal? Is it to get younger and get more assets for the future or is it to go for it all this year in one last chance to get another championship?
Quote:
In comment 13535287 Deej said:
Quote:
In the world of cap management and windows, I think it makes a lot of sense to keep Frank, create cap space, and try to sign someone when Frank, KP, and friends are humming along.
because of the pending KP max (which is going to be huge) and the presence of Hardaway, Noah, and Lee on the books, I don't know that there's going to be an opportunity to add a max level player to a KP/Frank/Willy core via cap space.
KP's new contract will kick in for 2020-21. I believe it lines up that we can fit a max guy summer 2019, and maybe 2 max guys in 2020 (or close to it) if KP doesnt resign early (i.e. if he goes into summer 2020 as a cap hold and not on the new deal).
Summer 2020, everyone is off contract except THJR (fucking player option) and Frank's option. So even signing KP, we have a max deal. Maybe even with Willy's hold. But the #1s will start to add up too, as will a fresh layer of dumb signings.
I think you're a year late on KP. By year 5 (2019/2020) he'll be making $25 million or so. Maybe more depending or where the cap is.
True, but I think the Knicks actually/finally have assets someone would want.
I would be very surprised if Frank was ever as good as Kyrie. But I also think that Frank could be one of those guys who does a few things very well, and nothing that hurts you (like a Klay Thompson), and that players like that are so crucial to winning basketball. Especially if they arent clocking 30-35 million off your cap. Kyrie isnt a good defender. Frank and KP could be the start of a suffocating defense for all we know.
But the bigger issue is the cap issue to me. There is a lot to be said for developing Frank, who is cheap, and trying to sign someone in 2 summers when KP is thru 4 seasons and hopefully a 25 point player.
Quote:
feel comfortable saying Frank isn't going to be a #1 or #2 star on a championship team and I think 99.9% of the world would agree with me.
I would be very surprised if Frank was ever as good as Kyrie. But I also think that Frank could be one of those guys who does a few things very well, and nothing that hurts you (like a Klay Thompson), and that players like that are so crucial to winning basketball. Especially if they arent clocking 30-35 million off your cap. Kyrie isnt a good defender. Frank and KP could be the start of a suffocating defense for all we know.
But the bigger issue is the cap issue to me. There is a lot to be said for developing Frank, who is cheap, and trying to sign someone in 2 summers when KP is thru 4 seasons and hopefully a 25 point player.
Deej,
To be clear I wasn't taking a swipe at Frank, rather the need to find another true superstar through the draft with the 2018 pick. People may absolutely love Frank but I find it hard to believe anyone thinks a KP/Frank/Irving top 3 is ever competing for a title.
Wolves- Patton, Bjelica, Dieng, Tyus Jones
Miami- Adebayo, Winslow, Richarson
In terms of teams Kyrie listed, the Knicks easily have the most to offer.
Yep. He doesn't have a NTC. Who does he think he is? Carmelo?
I think you're a year late on KP. By year 5 (2019/2020) he'll be making $25 million or so. Maybe more depending or where the cap is.
I forgot that the higher pay can start in year 5. So yeah, 2019 is the key summer. We have max cap space to sign someone, or can make it pretty easily by flexing Noah/Thomas or hoping that someone like Lee or THJR is movable.
It's only relevant because teams will offer less if they think he'll bounce after two years.
Quote:
In comment 13535314 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
feel comfortable saying Frank isn't going to be a #1 or #2 star on a championship team and I think 99.9% of the world would agree with me.
I would be very surprised if Frank was ever as good as Kyrie. But I also think that Frank could be one of those guys who does a few things very well, and nothing that hurts you (like a Klay Thompson), and that players like that are so crucial to winning basketball. Especially if they arent clocking 30-35 million off your cap. Kyrie isnt a good defender. Frank and KP could be the start of a suffocating defense for all we know.
But the bigger issue is the cap issue to me. There is a lot to be said for developing Frank, who is cheap, and trying to sign someone in 2 summers when KP is thru 4 seasons and hopefully a 25 point player.
Deej,
To be clear I wasn't taking a swipe at Frank, rather the need to find another true superstar through the draft with the 2018 pick. People may absolutely love Frank but I find it hard to believe anyone thinks a KP/Frank/Irving top 3 is ever competing for a title.
Didnt think you were. Frankly, we'd be fortunate if he was Batum, right? No one is gonna be super excited about a Batum sitting here today (though if he was a Spur people would cream themselves over him).
My point is just -- hope we got Batum or better on a cheap deal and use the cap space before we have to resign him to sign a Kyrie-like player. John Wall, or whoever. Plus we'll have 2018 high pick assuming Melo is moved. No guarantee we get a Wall or similar player, but I also dont know that getting Kyrie is a guarantee is anything. It's probably better than I imagine, but with our clogged cap space it is hard to get super excited. KP-Kyrie-Willie-THJR-XXX would get smoked by GSW.
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I think you're a year late on KP. By year 5 (2019/2020) he'll be making $25 million or so. Maybe more depending or where the cap is.
I forgot that the higher pay can start in year 5. So yeah, 2019 is the key summer. We have max cap space to sign someone, or can make it pretty easily by flexing Noah/Thomas or hoping that someone like Lee or THJR is movable.
that's the thing - cap space will be tight that summer because hopefully KP will have already signed his max deal when he's eligible to do so (the year prior). The following year, Wily (if he's still around) will be getting paid, although in his case you sign someone else first and then sign him.
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In comment 13535336 Enzo said:
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I think you're a year late on KP. By year 5 (2019/2020) he'll be making $25 million or so. Maybe more depending or where the cap is.
I forgot that the higher pay can start in year 5. So yeah, 2019 is the key summer. We have max cap space to sign someone, or can make it pretty easily by flexing Noah/Thomas or hoping that someone like Lee or THJR is movable.
that's the thing - cap space will be tight that summer because hopefully KP will have already signed his max deal when he's eligible to do so (the year prior). The following year, Wily (if he's still around) will be getting paid, although in his case you sign someone else first and then sign him.
When does KP ink the extension? Summer 2018?
@BillSimmons
Knicks get: Kyrie, Frye's deal
Suns get: Ntilinka, Shump's deal
Cavs get: Melo, Bledsoe, NYK's 2018/20 1sts, Phx protected 1st
to me, it's not worth the risk. If he agrees to the max, just get him to sign and worry about the cap later.
@BillSimmons
Knicks get: Kyrie, Frye's deal
Suns get: Ntilinka, Shump's deal
Cavs get: Melo, Bledsoe, NYK's 2018/20 1sts, Phx protected 1st
Is this confirmed or a what he thinks would happen? We don't protect any of our firsts?
@BillSimmons
Knicks get: Kyrie, Frye's deal
Suns get: Ntilinka, Shump's deal
Cavs get: Melo, Bledsoe, NYK's 2018/20 1sts, Phx protected 1st
You forgot to put that Bill said "Maybe" to begin this proposal. You made it sound like that was an official trade...
Quote:
Bill SimmonsVerified account
@BillSimmons
Knicks get: Kyrie, Frye's deal
Suns get: Ntilinka, Shump's deal
Cavs get: Melo, Bledsoe, NYK's 2018/20 1sts, Phx protected 1st
You forgot to put that Bill said "Maybe" to begin this proposal. You made it sound like that was an official trade...
Yeah, my bad.
SORRY GUYS. IT WAS A PROPOSAL. NOT CONFIRMED.
Way too much going out from NY and Phoenix.
Way too much going out from NY and Phoenix.
There's no way on Earth I would trade what amounts to 3 consecutive 1's for Kyree. Then to trade Melo on top of that with basically no return for him????????????????????? HELL NO.
@ramonashelburne
Ramona Shelburne Retweeted Chris Haynes
Knicks very interesting. Kyrie is from the area. KP was already dangled...and Knicks could still do S&T with DRose
@Schultz_Report
Jordan Schultz Retweeted Brian Windhorst
Source: #Knicks and #Cavs in serious talks centered around Carmelo Anthony and Kyrie Irving+possible 3rd team (maybe #Suns).
@Schultz_Report
Jordan Schultz Retweeted Brian Windhorst
Source: #Knicks and #Cavs in serious talks centered around Carmelo Anthony and Kyrie Irving+possible 3rd team (maybe #Suns).
Link - ( New Window )
But if he gets to the finals year 1 than is it worth it? Melos options are limited, and most scenarios are him not playing for a contender. Him going there for a year then either leaving the year after LeBron or forcing a trade after LeBron leaves are a realistic options.
I'd say going to Cleveland is very much in the cards.
NYK, obviously, has strong interest in Kyrie. Wouldn't be willing to trade Porzingis at this point
Fucking Michael Smith suggested Kyrie and Thompson for Melo and KP. Fuck him.
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
Knicks would consider trading Carmelo Anthony and future first rounders for Kyrie Irving.
PLEASE GOD.
NYK, obviously, has strong interest in Kyrie. Wouldn't be willing to trade Porzingis at this point
"At this point"?????????? What would be the purpose if they were willing to trade him at any point?
Fucking Michael Smith suggested Kyrie and Thompson for Melo and KP. Fuck him.
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
Knicks would consider trading Carmelo Anthony and future first rounders for Kyrie Irving.
So wait...
- we'd trade Melo & picks
- end up with Kyrie
- still have Frank
Hard to argue with that one.
Perry has not met with James Dolan. PERIOD.
Wow
Probably grew up a Knicks fan.
Between now and then, you do whatever is needed to create the room by dumping Lee, KOQ, Lance, Noah.
Just a bat-shit crazy idea that occurred to me.
I worry that if you send 2 unprotected firsts along w Melo, you have a much better team right now, but do you have enough ammo to get over the hump to true contender in 2-3 years?
Fucking Michael Smith suggested Kyrie and Thompson for Melo and KP. Fuck him.
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
Knicks would consider trading Carmelo Anthony and future first rounders for Kyrie Irving.
"Knicks" is so vague. "would consider" is so vague. "future first rounders" is decently vague.
Kyrie news broke 3 hours ago and suddenly the "Knicks" have a position/plan? Feels like made up a rumor with vague enough weasel words that you could never be disproven.
Quote:
Can't comment on Kyrie because of tampering
Fucking Michael Smith suggested Kyrie and Thompson for Melo and KP. Fuck him.
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
Knicks would consider trading Carmelo Anthony and future first rounders for Kyrie Irving.
"Knicks" is so vague. "would consider" is so vague. "future first rounders" is decently vague.
Kyrie news broke 3 hours ago and suddenly the "Knicks" have a position/plan? Feels like made up a rumor with vague enough weasel words that you could never be disproven.
Allegedly Kyrie voiced his desire to be traded last week. Doesn't give any more legitimacy to that particular rumor, but there's likely been talks leading up to this.
KingZ : 7:02 pm
I see the update has Heat, T-Wolves, Knicks, Spurs as preferred destinations.
Knicks would be over the cap, would need to make some pre-moves to accomadate his salary.
Cavs wouldn't be able to take back equal salary because they are way over cap.
Sign and trade with Rose would probably be for minimum.
Melo for Kyrie wouldn't work.
-Why would Phoenix help?
Thanks!!but ok to re-sign Baker to new deal.
Knicks and Cavs would have to shed salary before doing a deal. KOQ, Noah, Lance...
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since we had to renounce his rights to sign Hardaway.
Thanks!!but ok to re-sign Baker to new deal.
They used their cap exception sign Baker.
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In comment 13535442 robbieballs2003 said:
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since we had to renounce his rights to sign Hardaway.
Thanks!!but ok to re-sign Baker to new deal.
They used their cap exception sign Baker.
Cavs Get: Eric Bledsoe, Carmelo Anthony
Suns Trade: Eric Bledsoe
Suns Get: Frank Ntilikina, Iman Shumpert
Knicks Trade: Frank Ntilikina, Carmelo Anthony
Knicks Get: Kyrie Irving, Channing Frye
you have to make the contracts work to get the trade done.
He's probably considering the likelihood that the Knicks will either trade those picks anyway on someone not worthy of them, or just blow them on bad players altogether.
Do you think there is a deal that Cleveland either comes out even or ahead? A year from now a team led by Love and Melo is going nowhere.
Quote:
Ramona ShelburneVerified account
@ramonashelburne
Ramona Shelburne Retweeted Chris Haynes
Knicks very interesting. Kyrie is from the area. KP was already dangled...and Knicks could still do S&T with DRose
Seems to me like she just passed on someone else's tweet. You calling her dumb for that would be like me calling you dumb for quoting her tweet.
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But what I saw last yr, they can keep him.
you have to make the contracts work to get the trade done.
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this is a Berman level post:
Quote:
Ramona ShelburneVerified account
@ramonashelburne
Ramona Shelburne Retweeted Chris Haynes
Knicks very interesting. Kyrie is from the area. KP was already dangled...and Knicks could still do S&T with DRose
Seems to me like she just passed on someone else's tweet. You calling her dumb for that would be like me calling you dumb for quoting her tweet.
Haynes might be in the know but what does sign and trade do when Cleveland has the cap issues it has.
Seems to me like she just passed on someone else's tweet. You calling her dumb for that would be like me calling you dumb for quoting her tweet.
Retweeting something dumb is a conscious choice.
Quote:
Seems to me like she just passed on someone else's tweet. You calling her dumb for that would be like me calling you dumb for quoting her tweet.
Retweeting something dumb is a conscious choice.
Isn't that her new colleague? She probably respects him.
You're being very kind to Hardaway by placing him in that trio, but no doubt the future would be brighter than it's been in 20 years.
Who said to trade THJ?
Carmelo can opt out next year so he really would not be stuck.
Plus isn't it a red flag that he would rather not play alongside Lebron and go to the finals again?
Plus isn't it a red flag that he would rather not play alongside Lebron and go to the finals again?
wouldnt knicks be in a better situation for the simple fact they have kp?
you would have 2 young building blocks with frank who is 18, thjr and willy...
someone would make the junp to new york to come play with them especially if lebron left the east..
Plus isn't it a red flag that he would rather not play alongside Lebron and go to the finals again?
Yes, Kyrie is a shoot first PG, but I'm not going to hold the results of his first few seasons against him when his best teammates were Tristan Thompson and an ancient Antwuan Jamison. There's a sizable difference between that and an improving KP, an improving Willy, and whatever THJ becomes. The comparison to the post- Melo trade Knicks really makes no sense. The improvement the Knicks will make is with those 3 young players they already have.
If KP is as good as all the people on BBI swore he was when the trade rumors were publicized, what are we really worried about? If they're not a top 4 seed in the East, then KP isn't as good as many of you thought. One thing we know is Kyrie Irving can be the second best player on a championship team.
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this is a Berman level post:
Quote:
Ramona ShelburneVerified account
@ramonashelburne
Ramona Shelburne Retweeted Chris Haynes
Knicks very interesting. Kyrie is from the area. KP was already dangled...and Knicks could still do S&T with DRose
Seems to me like she just passed on someone else's tweet. You calling her dumb for that would be like me calling you dumb for quoting her tweet.
that's not what happened at all. Are you too dumb to see who tweeted what? Haynes listed Irving's preferred destinations. Ramona tweeted the unworkable sign-and-trade option all on her own. Always amusing when these clowns who get paid to cover the league mess up basic stuff.
Plus isn't it a red flag that he would rather not play alongside Lebron and go to the finals again?
the league is full of score first PGs these days. The guy is 24 and is just entering his prime. You can draft in the lottery for years and never get a guy this good.
Quote:
ball-dominant score-first PG. We've already seen Kyrie on bad teams. That movie ends the same way pretty often. He puts the Knicks in the same situation Melo did. Depending on the front office to build around him without draft picks, which they have proven they are not good at. Kyrie doesn't make them a top 4 seed.
Plus isn't it a red flag that he would rather not play alongside Lebron and go to the finals again?
Yes, Kyrie is a shoot first PG, but I'm not going to hold the results of his first few seasons against him when his best teammates were Tristan Thompson and an ancient Antwuan Jamison. There's a sizable difference between that and an improving KP, an improving Willy, and whatever THJ becomes. The comparison to the post- Melo trade Knicks really makes no sense. The improvement the Knicks will make is with those 3 young players they already have.
If KP is as good as all the people on BBI swore he was when the trade rumors were publicized, what are we really worried about? If they're not a top 4 seed in the East, then KP isn't as good as many of you thought. One thing we know is Kyrie Irving can be the second best player on a championship team.
This is the second time you've done this and I still don't know why. You seem like you've got some kind of issue with people claiming he has a ton of potential. Which he does. He's also 21 years old. However good he's going to be, he's got another 4 years or so before he's like going to get there. He's good now. He's good for his age. He shouldn't be expected to lead any team anywhere right now.
That said i cant see it happening. Even if you sent out Melo, Lee, and KOQ for Irving, whichever of JR/Shump Cle would rather trade and Frye i still think we would have to throw in at least a couple unprotected firsts and maybe even Frank. I dont think i could do all of that, but id prolly do Frank and a pick or two picks (maybe 2018 top 3 protected or something) but no pick.
And i get CLE prolly still turns that down, but i dont want to see the knicks put all their assets into one player again.
i also think having irving and kp as your pair with thjr and willy on roster you will attract a max guy...
now the qiestion is do the cavs go with hoping someone offers a young up and coming player for ircing or do they go fro a quick fix for next year and then implode the team the following year...
Still confusing. Lol.
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i was saying id consider frank and a pick or two picks but no frank (preferable in either scenario something like top 3 protected for 2018)
Still confusing. Lol.
Oh, I think I get what you are saying. Either
Frank and a pick
OR
just 2 picks
Love and Frank to Suns
Kyrie and Chandler to Knicks
Plus picks being moved
This is one trade being discussed
Love and Frank to Suns
Kyrie and Chandler to Knicks
Plus picks being moved
This is one trade being discussed
This feel farfetched, but the Knicks would immediately become a playoff team ironically enough.
I always liked Tyson's game. I thought he got a bad rap here.
That said i cant see it happening. Even if you sent out Melo, Lee, and KOQ for Irving, whichever of JR/Shump Cle would rather trade and Frye i still think we would have to throw in at least a couple unprotected firsts and maybe even Frank. I dont think i could do all of that, but id prolly do Frank and a pick or two picks (maybe 2018 top 3 protected or something) but no pick.
And i get CLE prolly still turns that down, but i dont want to see the knicks put all their assets into one player again.
I am not hating on him. Fine player. Really good. How good? Playing with Lebron makes good players seem great and Lebron himself made it very publicly clear the Cavs needed a point guard / playmaker late last year.
Did we not all agree that an actual point guard was the best fit for the growth of this young players on this team? If you're going to spend a lot to get Kyrie (and you will have to) you'd better be sure that a score-first player who isn't really known for consistent defensive effort and nobody really knows if he's capable of elevating players around him since he's never done it is the guy that you want to pin your future on. Because what you will have to give up to get him is going to set the time frame back a bit.
Moreover, the time frames don't match up. The knicks are young. Kyrie is 25 (which isn't old at all). By the time the rest of the team develops and has expectations to win he's probably going to be close to 30.
Unless you think this team is one all star away, which, I don't know why you would think that.
Love and Frank to Suns
Kyrie and Chandler to Knicks
Plus picks being moved
This is one trade being discussed
i would hate tieing up money with chandler and noah, and cutting into willys playing time...
i am good with melo and picks straight up for irving but adding another high priced center kind of kills the youth movement
Well the last line says picks being moved. I'm guessing Cleveland would be getting those picks. That, and maybe Cleveland is a bit more prepared to move on from Love than they were
PHX Get - Lee, Frank, Frye + top 5 protected knicks pick (Hopefully)
CLE gets - Anthony and Bledsoe.
Anthony and bledsoe is not a bad return for CLE. PHX dumps chandler and gets Frank, a first, and Lee for Bledsoe and the knicks get irving for essentially Frank and lightly protected first. Obviously there could be some moving parts, but that seems at least close to fair. Now im not sure roster wise it really makes sense for PHX to get Frank and Lee so that might be where it all falls apart.
What teams in the NBA win with 21/22 year olds as your go-to players?
And what information do we have that Kyrie Irving is carrying a bunch of kids anywhere? As I said, you're giving up a lot to get him, so right from the start, you're going in shorthanded and with limited ability to construct a team around him early on.
how is it the melo trade?
you giving up kp? no
you giving up thjr? no
you giving up willy? no
your giving up 2018 first? ok isnt ehat you hope for that pick to become is kyrie?
plus you dont think someone would want to come play with iriving and kp?
plus who was the kp that the knicms were pairing with melo?
my guess cleveland leaked it
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Melo and 2 firsts in a Kyrie deal? Why start the market there?
my guess cleveland leaked it
My guess is that it wasn't leaked. This was just a guess by a reporter.
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is true. If the Knicks trade this years'pick (Frank can't be traded until Aug 5th) & next years, you're hoping that KI,THJ,KP & WHG will form a nucleus that will propel the Knicks into the playoffs.What it propels them into is mediocrity. Kyrie is a superstar PG but Melo was a superstar SF & if we do this deal,we're back to post Melo trade. I love Kyrie's game but unless we can do Melo,Lee & a 2020/21 protected pick for KI, I say move Melo for young players and/or picks in this trade or to the Rockets(w/3rd team)
how is it the melo trade?
you giving up kp? no
you giving up thjr? no
you giving up willy? no
your giving up 2018 first? ok isnt ehat you hope for that pick to become is kyrie?
plus you dont think someone would want to come play with iriving and kp?
plus who was the kp that the knicms were pairing with melo?
You make good points & I'm not against getting KI but I think we have to see how many picks they're giving up. Jordan Schultz say both Cavs & Suns getting picks along w/Frank going to the Suns & Melo to the Cavs. To me,way too much. You project that others will join but that song was sung during the Melo years as well & here we are today! By the way, the KP that Melo paired up w/was Stat-they were the dynamic duo,remember?
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Melo and 2 firsts in a Kyrie deal? Why start the market there?
my guess cleveland leaked it
Good pt on the leak. However, why would they make such a strong offer right away. It shows desperation.
Quote:
In comment 13535868 TheMick7 said:
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is true. If the Knicks trade this years'pick (Frank can't be traded until Aug 5th) & next years, you're hoping that KI,THJ,KP & WHG will form a nucleus that will propel the Knicks into the playoffs.What it propels them into is mediocrity. Kyrie is a superstar PG but Melo was a superstar SF & if we do this deal,we're back to post Melo trade. I love Kyrie's game but unless we can do Melo,Lee & a 2020/21 protected pick for KI, I say move Melo for young players and/or picks in this trade or to the Rockets(w/3rd team)
how is it the melo trade?
you giving up kp? no
you giving up thjr? no
you giving up willy? no
your giving up 2018 first? ok isnt ehat you hope for that pick to become is kyrie?
plus you dont think someone would want to come play with iriving and kp?
plus who was the kp that the knicms were pairing with melo?
You make good points & I'm not against getting KI but I think we have to see how many picks they're giving up. Jordan Schultz say both Cavs & Suns getting picks along w/Frank going to the Suns & Melo to the Cavs. To me,way too much. You project that others will join but that song was sung during the Melo years as well & here we are today! By the way, the KP that Melo paired up w/was Stat-they were the dynamic duo,remember?
jordan shulz is not a source, he is never right...
and i get people being nervous because of the melo trade but as long as kp or willy are not involved i am good..
Houston gets a tough C and a 3rd star in Love.
The Knicks get Irving and cap relief.
3 way trade HOU-CLE-NYK - ( New Window )
Actually at the time of the trade,Stat was 28,Melo was 26
there would be no point to do that...
at least if it is melo and a couple of firsts you have irving and kp...
just irving is pointless
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kp is 22
Actually at the time of the trade,Stat was 28,Melo was 26
ok and stat was 28 going on 35 and you had nothing else...
if you make this trade you have kp and iriving with thjr and willy
Knicks get: Kyrie, Chandler, Shump
Cleveland trades: Kyrie, Love, Shump
Cleveland gets: Melo, Bledsoe, Lee, Willy
Suns trade: Chandler, Bledsoe
Suns get: Love
Suns 1st goes to Cleveland. Knicks might have to include a protected 1st as well.
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In comment 13535919 nygiants16 said:
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kp is 22
Actually at the time of the trade,Stat was 28,Melo was 26
ok and stat was 28 going on 35 and you had nothing else...
if you make this trade you have kp and iriving with thjr and willy
But the year the trade was made,Stat was a NBA stud-hindsight's always 20/20.And after those 4,then what? You want the trade. I only want the trade if they don't give away the house (Frank/2 1sts).Let's see how it plays out!
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In comment 13535937 TheMick7 said:
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In comment 13535919 nygiants16 said:
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kp is 22
Actually at the time of the trade,Stat was 28,Melo was 26
ok and stat was 28 going on 35 and you had nothing else...
if you make this trade you have kp and iriving with thjr and willy
But the year the trade was made,Stat was a NBA stud-hindsight's always 20/20.And after those 4,then what? You want the trade. I only want the trade if they don't give away the house (Frank/2 1sts).Let's see how it plays out!
my deal is melo and a couple of firsts, say 18 top 5 protected, 20 top 5 pritected..
thats it...
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In comment 13535941 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 13535937 TheMick7 said:
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In comment 13535919 nygiants16 said:
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kp is 22
Actually at the time of the trade,Stat was 28,Melo was 26
ok and stat was 28 going on 35 and you had nothing else...
if you make this trade you have kp and iriving with thjr and willy
But the year the trade was made,Stat was a NBA stud-hindsight's always 20/20.And after those 4,then what? You want the trade. I only want the trade if they don't give away the house (Frank/2 1sts).Let's see how it plays out!
my deal is melo and a couple of firsts, say 18 top 5 protected, 20 top 5 pritected..
thats it...
And if it's that PLUS Frank?
I think Melo and Frank is a solid foundation of any offer. Perhaps a top 10 protected pick if necessary.
If KP is going to be as good as most Knicks fans felt he was when Phil was dangling him around draft time then they are off to a great start.
I'm going to try to be optimistic about THJ as well because he's still young. If he can continue to improve along with H-Gomez then you have a nice collection of young talent that can grow up together while GS is still dominating and ready to compete beyond that.
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In comment 13535949 TheMick7 said:
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In comment 13535941 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 13535937 TheMick7 said:
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And if it's that PLUS Frank?
if i have to? i woukd probably still do it, but i change the protections on the pick or make them swaps...
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In comment 13535953 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 13535949 TheMick7 said:
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In comment 13535941 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 13535937 TheMick7 said:
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And if it's that PLUS Frank?
if i have to? i woukd probably still do it, but i change the protections on the pick or make them swaps...
That's to much for me.I'd be okay w/what you originally had but 3 1sts is my tipping point! We'll see..Melo probably still winds up in Houston!
I agree,there's nothing from Houston of value but they'll line up a third team someway/somehow to get it done.It's why Knicks mgmt paused. The longer this soap opera goes on,the more impatient everyone gets. Knicks mgmt just has to play their cards right. Hell,if we get into late August & still nothing is completed,Melo might agree to Portland!
Would be fun to watch and hopefully they will continue to develop.
Only there would an athlete want to be traded because he doesn't want to share the spotlight.
I am more than willing to give up all of these pieces: Melo, Lee, Oquinn and include either of the 3 scenarios to close the deal:
1. would give up either Frank or a 2019 unprotected. I would like to keep 2018 pick because Knicks would still be on border of even making playoffs.
2. Willy and top 25 protected, then top 20 and then becomes 2 seconds
3. 2 protected #1s
Believe it or not Knicks aren't in too bad of shape in terms what they can offer. While Boston has all of these great assetS. I am not sure if they can get salaries to match. Would be interesting if Phili would offer Fultz and fillers to get it done.
say it is melo and 2018 frst for kyire, wouldnt kyrie be what you want the 2018 pick to be?
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Knicks will live to regret giving up an unprotected 2018 1st, quote me
say it is melo and 2018 frst for kyire, wouldnt kyrie be what you want the 2018 pick to be?
And you build on that core how? No cap room and likely just good enough that you no longer have a shot at a high pick. So KP/Kyrie/THjr/Frank isnyiur core with no avenue to add another star. What does that do?
If you're able to get Kyrie Irving why would you regret giving up a first round pick? Odds are even if the pick somehow ends up being in the top 5 you aren't getting a guy that's as good as Irving. He's a top 10 player in the league.
Melo
Lee
Top 3 protected 2018
Swap in 2019
Or
Melo
Lee
2018 top 10 protected
Frank or Willy (not both)
Best I would give up for kyrie
umm how you adding a 3rd star if you are just adding a 2018 pick to the team?
They aren't setting up to play the Warriors. Nor the Celtics. Their window will be in 3 years, even with Irving, and by that point they will have the means to add a third star via FA.
With how weak the east is, it's almost unfathomable that the Knicks with Irving wouldn't be at least competing for a playoff spot.
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Knicks will live to regret giving up an unprotected 2018 1st, quote me
If you're able to get Kyrie Irving why would you regret giving up a first round pick? Odds are even if the pick somehow ends up being in the top 5 you aren't getting a guy that's as good as Irving. He's a top 10 player in the league.
#1 he's not a top 10 player. He wasn't even top 20 in PER or WS/48 this season. He was 8th among PG's in PER.
#2 Again... you add Irving and he gets his money.... where are the Knicks adding to that? Where does that player come from? Capped out. 2019 1st? When your 2018 team with Irving minus Melo is almost certainly not picking high. KP/Irving/THjr/Frank that's your squad with no path to get better outside of KP becoming Dirk or THjr becoming some superstar.
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Do the Knicks add a 3rd star if you give up your 2018 unprotected pick? And save me Frank being that guy or Willy being that guy. The second best player of all time with Irving and Love just got curb stomped by the Warriors.
umm how you adding a 3rd star if you are just adding a 2018 pick to the team?
Uh. You hope to draft one/add to the player you draft.
irving, thjr, kp, willy is a pretty good young core, and then add in the unknown frank...
you can trade lee, thomas and kpq come off in the next couple of years, noah is the guy you got to try and sell off...
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In comment 13536052 DanMetroMan said:
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Do the Knicks add a 3rd star if you give up your 2018 unprotected pick? And save me Frank being that guy or Willy being that guy. The second best player of all time with Irving and Love just got curb stomped by the Warriors.
umm how you adding a 3rd star if you are just adding a 2018 pick to the team?
Uh. You hope to draft one/add to the player you draft.
so then you are in the same position you are in with kyrie and kp?...
what is the difference?
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Do the Knicks add a 3rd star if you give up your 2018 unprotected pick? And save me Frank being that guy or Willy being that guy. The second best player of all time with Irving and Love just got curb stomped by the Warriors.
They aren't setting up to play the Warriors. Nor the Celtics. Their window will be in 3 years, even with Irving, and by that point they will have the means to add a third star via FA.
With how weak the east is, it's almost unfathomable that the Knicks with Irving wouldn't be at least competing for a playoff spot.
Playoff spot does what? KP gets paid, Irving gets paid and... the Knicks best case is what over the next 2-3 years? Irving/KP/THjr as your top 3 does what? You can't even pretend to dream that's a force in the east outside of KP becoming Dirk 2.0
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In comment 13536052 DanMetroMan said:
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Do the Knicks add a 3rd star if you give up your 2018 unprotected pick? And save me Frank being that guy or Willy being that guy. The second best player of all time with Irving and Love just got curb stomped by the Warriors.
They aren't setting up to play the Warriors. Nor the Celtics. Their window will be in 3 years, even with Irving, and by that point they will have the means to add a third star via FA.
With how weak the east is, it's almost unfathomable that the Knicks with Irving wouldn't be at least competing for a playoff spot.
Playoff spot does what? KP gets paid, Irving gets paid and... the Knicks best case is what over the next 2-3 years? Irving/KP/THjr as your top 3 does what? You can't even pretend to dream that's a force in the east outside of KP becoming Dirk 2.0
Did you even read what I wrote?
Their window is 3 years from now. Who cares what happens the next 2-3 years. My only point about the playoffs was that their pick won't be that high.
When the core of your team is a 25 year old Irving, 21 year old Porzingis, and 18 year old Ntilikina you aren't on the same timeline as the Warriors. The important thing is to be able to move space before KP hits free agency to add another guy before you have to lock up KP to a big deal.
irving, thjr, kp, willy is a pretty good young core, and then add in the unknown frank...
you can trade lee, thomas and kpq come off in the next couple of years, noah is the guy you got to try and sell off...
Try and sell off? You guys love the quick fix. Each and every time. "They can compete for a playoff spot!" who the fuck cares about being one of the top 8-9 teams in the east? That's the goal now? With no upward mobility? Kyrie Irving is very good, he's not Chris Paul in his prime.
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Do the Knicks add a 3rd star if you give up your 2018 unprotected pick? And save me Frank being that guy or Willy being that guy. The second best player of all time with Irving and Love just got curb stomped by the Warriors.
When the core of your team is a 25 year old Irving, 21 year old Porzingis, and 18 year old Ntilikina you aren't on the same timeline as the Warriors. The important thing is to be able to move space before KP hits free agency to add another guy before you have to lock up KP to a big deal.
Did I miss the Celtics, Bucks and Wizards having young talent? Bucks aren't on the same timeline as us with an MVP caliber player already on the roster?
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you can find the room to add a 3rd guy if someone wants to come...
irving, thjr, kp, willy is a pretty good young core, and then add in the unknown frank...
you can trade lee, thomas and kpq come off in the next couple of years, noah is the guy you got to try and sell off...
Try and sell off? You guys love the quick fix. Each and every time. "They can compete for a playoff spot!" who the fuck cares about being one of the top 8-9 teams in the east? That's the goal now? With no upward mobility? Kyrie Irving is very good, he's not Chris Paul in his prime.
dan with all due respect wtf are you talking about?
if you add kyrie and get rid of 2018 pick you have kyrie, thjr kp, willy and frank...
if you dont add kyrie, you 2018 pick, kp, willy thjr and frank...
wtf is the difference?
Yes, those are the teams the Knicks will competing against.
Breaking news Dan: There is a lot of good young talent in the NBA. If you don't think 28 year old Irving, THJR and 25 year old KP, Willy, plus another max player, aren't competitive in that group, then something has gone disastrously wrong with their development.
you are maxed out either way...
You have such a weird stance on this and are firmly in the minority.
It's one thing to mortgage the future for a star that will get them nowhere. Irving is 25. He is only getting better and could be a Knick for the next decade.
Melo is on the way out anyway. His value to the Knicks is negative. If the cost for Irving is Frank and a 1st, so be it. That's pennies on the dollar for Irving's relative value in the league.
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Been a Knick fan long enough to know how this goes. Fans approve every move that involves a "star name" regardless of the cost. They could deal Melo 2018, 2020, 2022 and people on here would still support the move. 100% fact
You have such a weird stance on this and are firmly in the minority.
It's one thing to mortgage the future for a star that will get them nowhere. Irving is 25. He is only getting better and could be a Knick for the next decade.
Melo is on the way out anyway. His value to the Knicks is negative. If the cost for Irving is Frank and a 1st, so be it. That's pennies on the dollar for Irving's relative value in the league.
and either eay trade for irving or dont trade for irving you are maxed out, you are not adding any ody if you dont trade for irving...
so it is as simple as do you want irving for the 2018 player?
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Been a Knick fan long enough to know how this goes. Fans approve every move that involves a "star name" regardless of the cost. They could deal Melo 2018, 2020, 2022 and people on here would still support the move. 100% fact
You have such a weird stance on this and are firmly in the minority.
It's one thing to mortgage the future for a star that will get them nowhere. Irving is 25. He is only getting better and could be a Knick for the next decade.
Melo is on the way out anyway. His value to the Knicks is negative. If the cost for Irving is Frank and a 1st, so be it. That's pennies on the dollar for Irving's relative value in the league.
Minority here maybe, in Knicks Reddit people are majority in agreement not to give up 2018 unprotected. BBI doesn't speak for the world. You flip flop quite a bit yourself namely on Frank, wanting him then one day being against taking him and now loving him again
For the Suns: Get rid of Knight's salary, trade Bledsoe for Frank, which lines up more with the rest of their team. Save a bunch of salary. Think this is a no brainer for them.
For the Cavs: Simple, move Kyrie for Bledsoe and Melo. They are arguably a better team now and add two of Lebron's buds.
For the Knicks: Also pretty simple. Melo and Frank for Kyrie.
Who says no?
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 13536074 DanMetroMan said:
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Been a Knick fan long enough to know how this goes. Fans approve every move that involves a "star name" regardless of the cost. They could deal Melo 2018, 2020, 2022 and people on here would still support the move. 100% fact
You have such a weird stance on this and are firmly in the minority.
It's one thing to mortgage the future for a star that will get them nowhere. Irving is 25. He is only getting better and could be a Knick for the next decade.
Melo is on the way out anyway. His value to the Knicks is negative. If the cost for Irving is Frank and a 1st, so be it. That's pennies on the dollar for Irving's relative value in the league.
Minority here maybe, in Knicks Reddit people are majority in agreement not to give up 2018 unprotected. BBI doesn't speak for the world. You flip flop quite a bit yourself namely on Frank, wanting him then one day being against taking him and now loving him again
When was I ever against Frank? I've been consistently pro-Frank.
Nice strawman. Literally not one person here has said, "Get Irving regardless of the cost." I haven't even seen one person advocate trading what amounts to 3 first rounders (Frank & 2 picks or 3 picks).
Here's what I don't understand... people who wanted to burn Phil Jackson's house down over KP trade rumors are now acting like it's too much to expect him to be really good in the next 2 years or eventually be the best player on a championship team. If he wasn't capable of doing those things, what the hell was all the complaining about when the trade rumors happened?
I also don't understand people comparing this in any way to the Melo trade. The Knicks problem post-Melo trade were first, STAT falling apart (while being EXTREMELY expensive) and the team having no young talent outside of Iman Shumpert and the 5 minutes they had Jeremy Lin. This situation is the antithesis of the post-Melo trade... they'd be building around 4 YOUNG players.
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In comment 13536076 Jon in NYC said:
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In comment 13536074 DanMetroMan said:
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Been a Knick fan long enough to know how this goes. Fans approve every move that involves a "star name" regardless of the cost. They could deal Melo 2018, 2020, 2022 and people on here would still support the move. 100% fact
You have such a weird stance on this and are firmly in the minority.
It's one thing to mortgage the future for a star that will get them nowhere. Irving is 25. He is only getting better and could be a Knick for the next decade.
Melo is on the way out anyway. His value to the Knicks is negative. If the cost for Irving is Frank and a 1st, so be it. That's pennies on the dollar for Irving's relative value in the league.
Minority here maybe, in Knicks Reddit people are majority in agreement not to give up 2018 unprotected. BBI doesn't speak for the world. You flip flop quite a bit yourself namely on Frank, wanting him then one day being against taking him and now loving him again
When was I ever against Frank? I've been consistently pro-Frank.
He had an awful game and suddenly you were pro DSJ. It was during the French league playoffs.
Regardless, I've been pretty pro-Frank from the get go.
Keep Frank and next 2 years picks
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Been a Knick fan long enough to know how this goes. Fans approve every move that involves a "star name" regardless of the cost. They could deal Melo 2018, 2020, 2022 and people on here would still support the move. 100% fact
Nice strawman. Literally not one person here has said, "Get Irving regardless of the cost." I haven't even seen one person advocate trading what amounts to 3 first rounders (Frank & 2 picks or 3 picks).
Here's what I don't understand... people who wanted to burn Phil Jackson's house down over KP trade rumors are now acting like it's too much to expect him to be really good in the next 2 years or eventually be the best player on a championship team. If he wasn't capable of doing those things, what the hell was all the complaining about when the trade rumors happened?
I also don't understand people comparing this in any way to the Melo trade. The Knicks problem post-Melo trade were first, STAT falling apart (while being EXTREMELY expensive) and the team having no young talent outside of Iman Shumpert and the 5 minutes they had Jeremy Lin. This situation is the antithesis of the post-Melo trade... they'd be building around 4 YOUNG players.
People defend every move the Knicks make on here. That includes Bargnani and Noah. People were flat out blasting me for hating the Noah deal (not that I was the only one who hated it) but numerous people who on this very thread were defending it (and the Bargnani trade) some on this very thread were okay bringing back Rose (nygiants16 at least once advocated a 3 year deal if the money wasn't "crazy").
The Melo trade was a wash imo.
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In comment 13536052 DanMetroMan said:
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Do the Knicks add a 3rd star if you give up your 2018 unprotected pick? And save me Frank being that guy or Willy being that guy. The second best player of all time with Irving and Love just got curb stomped by the Warriors.
When the core of your team is a 25 year old Irving, 21 year old Porzingis, and 18 year old Ntilikina you aren't on the same timeline as the Warriors. The important thing is to be able to move space before KP hits free agency to add another guy before you have to lock up KP to a big deal.
Did I miss the Celtics, Bucks and Wizards having young talent? Bucks aren't on the same timeline as us with an MVP caliber player already on the roster?
Your point is what? I referenced the Warriors because that is the team that you cited in regards to Lebron and Irving getting curb stomped. So since other teams in the east have young talent we should just pack it in for the next 10 years? Again, there is no guarantee the 2018 pick ends up being a player of Irvings caliber. Teams like the 76ers tank for all those years hoping they end up with a player like that.
it makes sense, irving wants out and he wants to make it uncomfortable so they trade him...
hard to keep irving with everything that is leaking
Is he besties with Jimmy Butler or something?
Kyries flags are..
Injurys (mild to moderate flag)
Flat earther (he's stupid as a person )
He wants out of Cleveland NOW (why not wait a year or two before demanding out? Bad character? Selfish?)
Zero Defense. zero.
So Kyrie is def a top 20 player but can't give away unprotected 1sts (plural) and Melo, a guy who ensures they still have an easy shot at winning the east. Would take a ton of scoring stress off LeBron. They'd have 4 PFs tho in Love, Melo and LeBron but Bron would make it work to win the east.
Melo, any player not named willy, KP or Frank + 2 protected 1st round picks
I'll take back Kyrie, and any bad contract besides Thompson.
Is he besties with Jimmy Butler or something?
They apparently are close but I guess he likes the city as well. They did engage the Bulls but there was no match and then Butler was traded. Chicago is an odd choice however. I guess he saw Butler as a superstar but one that wouldn't take his shine.
Seems like they'd have an odd lineup.
According to an English translation obtained by The Post, Porzingis answered:
I feel that it is the best place to win. And if you win in New York, you are king. For the last two years, I have had so many positive emotions here that this is where I want to stay and that this is where I want to win.
You're gonna have to give to get irvin. I'm not 100% in love with him but I'd deal a future first and melo in a heartbeat. And I'd most definitely deal the pick over Willy or frank.
does nba tv air the games?
KP or Frank
It's melo a 1st and Willy I'm ok with moving
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wish MSG were airing the Latvia exhibition game on 7/29
does nba tv air the games?
I think they are airing some of the real games but I don't think exhibition games.
You can sell it if the knicks are building around Irvin, KP, frank, hardaway and Gomez with no 2018 pick. It might not be ideal but at least it's something to work with. Can't give up Frank or Gomez and a quality pick.
I also don't think it's likely the knicks are super high lottery picking next even if they didn't land Irvin. They will be close to or at the 30 win mark most likely. If they land Irvin maybe 40. I'd be ok dealing the 12th pick or so. And it could be high teens.
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Been a Knick fan long enough to know how this goes. Fans approve every move that involves a "star name" regardless of the cost. They could deal Melo 2018, 2020, 2022 and people on here would still support the move. 100% fact
You have such a weird stance on this and are firmly in the minority.
It's one thing to mortgage the future for a star that will get them nowhere. Irving is 25. He is only getting better and could be a Knick for the next decade.
I'm not trying to to play contrarian or troll when I ask this, but why is everyone so sure that Kyrie gets them anywhere?
I don't know how this differs from what we just did wasting the prime years of a top 10 player who got them to 2 playoff appearances. The main difference is KP is likely a future all star, which wasn't a thing when they traded for Carmelo, but what does that make the Knicks? Good enough to make the playoffs if it all works, but not good enough to win.
Irving
THJR
George
KP
WH
compete in the east? If KP progressed i think they could. Now can they beat GS? No, but if your only goal is to beat GSW then you might as well trade every asset for picks and just hope you suck long enough to get a few top 5 picks and that by the time they are good the warriors are old.
That's what I have a huge problem with. We're depending on the Knicks and hoping they learned from the Melo years, but I haven't seen anything that tells me that things have changed.
6 years, 3 general managers, 4.5 head coaches and some crazy number of 80-something different teammates since the trade and they couldn't put it together.
I don't know anything about this Perry guy, but the rest of the people responsible for that are still there and apparently have enough clout that a respected executive with playoffs teams in his resume was turned away because they wouldn't let him run it his way.
Now I'm not shouting conspiracies or anything, but confidence in THIS group?
it is why i think the sunsknicks cavs 3team makes sense...
suns get love, cavs get melo and bledsoe knicks get irving
Lebron, Melo, Bledsoe, courtney Lee and Oquinn. Obviously in this scenario they are getting at least 1 if. It 2 first round picks. But forgetting the picks for a second which team has a better chance vs. Golden state. Assuming Rose signs. A bench of Rose, Lee, Korver and OQuinn isn't bad. Just need a athletic defender off the bench as well.
Cavs trade -kyrie
Suns trade - josh Jackson /Eric bledsoe
Knicks receive -josh Jackson
Cavs receive - Bledsoe melo Oquinn
Suns receive - kyrie lee
Did we give him a player option or a no-trade clause? Kidding aside, I think he's a player.
Here's likely more going on than what's being reported. My guess is he had a falling out with LeBron and the "LeBron was blind sided" reports are bogus.
If the Knicks do trade for Kyrie they would be better off not trading Carmelo. The team would be looking to win and Irving, Melo, KP would be a good (3). The Knicks could trade (2) protected DPs + Frank + other pieces for Irving.
If the Knicks do trade for Kyrie they would be better off not trading Carmelo. The team would be looking to win and Irving, Melo, KP would be a good (3). The Knicks could trade (2) protected DPs + Frank + other pieces for Irving.
melo has an opt out, he can opt out just like lebron can...
no you trade for irving the plan would be build around him and kp, not melo...
Makes a lot of sense for Cleveland since they can give them help for one last run with Lebron and prepare them for the future but I don't understand it from Phoenix's POV. Kyrie and Booker is an odd match given that they both don't do much outside of scoring and defensively they would be horrific. That's why i think that the 3-way deal with Love make sure more sense especially if they want to hold onto Chriss which it certainly seemed like prior to Kyrie being on the market.
based on?
I happen to love Fox as a prospect but he is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Cleveland needs shooters, LBJ is the distributor. Fox would help their perimeter defense but you are sort of wasting him as a perpetrator.
Melo is way better than Fox for where Cleveland is. And Fox + any player on the Kings isn't better than Melo + Hernangomez for example.
The value of youth while high for most teams i'd say is by far lower for the Lebron's than any other team because he leaves next year if the team isn't championship calendar.
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.
I happen to love Fox as a prospect but he is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Cleveland needs shooters, LBJ is the distributor. Fox would help their perimeter defense but you are sort of wasting him as a perpetrator.
Melo is way better than Fox for where Cleveland is. And Fox + any player on the Kings isn't better than Melo + Hernangomez for example.
The value of youth while high for most teams i'd say is by far lower for the Lebron's than any other team because he leaves next year if the team isn't championship calendar.
Which is why Frank shouldn't be part of a deal for Kyrie.
I'd do Melo, O'Quinn, and a top 15 protected 2018 1st turns into 2019 1st for Kyrie and Shumpert.
That's the second time you acted like you have some kind of inside info. Is there a reason you're not elaborating? Do you know him? Did he get you pregnant? I mean, why the cryptic messages? If you know something, tell us.
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In comment 13536653 bceagle05 said:
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I happen to love Fox as a prospect but he is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Cleveland needs shooters, LBJ is the distributor. Fox would help their perimeter defense but you are sort of wasting him as a perpetrator.
Melo is way better than Fox for where Cleveland is. And Fox + any player on the Kings isn't better than Melo + Hernangomez for example.
The value of youth while high for most teams i'd say is by far lower for the Lebron's than any other team because he leaves next year if the team isn't championship calendar.
Which is why Frank shouldn't be part of a deal for Kyrie.
I'd do Melo, O'Quinn, and a top 15 protected 2018 1st turns into 2019 1st for Kyrie and Shumpert.
You might need to move Frank to get Bledsoe or another PG though.
I don't think the Cavs move Kyrie without getting an NBA ready PG that can play perimeter D. In your trade who guards opposing PGs? You trade away Shump who is the only player capable of that. Cavs won't make that trade.
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In comment 13536653 bceagle05 said:
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I happen to love Fox as a prospect but he is a terrible fit for Cleveland. Cleveland needs shooters, LBJ is the distributor. Fox would help their perimeter defense but you are sort of wasting him as a perpetrator.
Melo is way better than Fox for where Cleveland is. And Fox + any player on the Kings isn't better than Melo + Hernangomez for example.
The value of youth while high for most teams i'd say is by far lower for the Lebron's than any other team because he leaves next year if the team isn't championship calendar.
Which is why Frank shouldn't be part of a deal for Kyrie.
I'd do Melo, O'Quinn, and a top 15 protected 2018 1st turns into 2019 1st for Kyrie and Shumpert.
From your lips to god's ears. But that's a trash offer to the cavs. O'Quinn is an ok player but nothing special nor will he ever be anything special and a top 15 protected pick is even worse. You're not getting Irvin for that.
I think that is to be expected. No way they pull the trigger on a deal before thoroughly evaluating that market AND doing everything they can to change Kyrie's mind.
This, of course, all hinges on Lebron. He's already spurned them once so they have to understand that loyalty to his team/home is likely at the bottom of the list. If he commits to wanting to stay beyond his opt out, then I would stay the course and try to improve the team in any way. But I'd still be hesitant about it so I'd try to get him to extend. He won't do that, as expected, and then the team would need to make a decision on it.
If he's wishy washy about staying in CLE (or even states he will leave - unlikely) then I'd move forward with a full rebuild. They have valuable pieces that could get them set up for the future in a big way. Screw Lebron. Let him wither in his own game.