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Kyrie Irving asked the Cavaliers to trade him in a meeting last week, according to @WindhorstESPN.
wouldn't want to deal Frank but if my choices were Frank or unprotected #1 I'd give up Frank. We go into this season as a bad team even with Irving replacing Melo, one injury to KP or Irving and the Knicks could be top 3 pick bad EASILY. Imagine missing out on a Porter or Doncic. I'd be sick.
to lose Frank as well. With his versatility/length and shooting he could be an ideal bench player backing up the 1-3 as he learns and develops.
That said, there are limited opportunities to add top 15 or so players in league. Even fewer to do that when the player is 25. The Knicks need to make a move on this and do what it takes IMO.
Chris HaynesVerified account @ChrisBHaynes
ESPN Sources: On Kyrie Irving front, Cavs were given four preferred landing spots: New York, Miami, San Antonio, Minnesota.
Obviously if this whole situation is a legit possibility they do have interest in Rose but can only supposedly offer him 2.5. If we help them get Rose then in theory we would get something back so if Melo and a first could get Irving then that piece we get back could be a top ten protection on the pick. Thought?
You guys know more about the rest of the league than I do
it turns the heat up on Morey a little. Throw in Capela and maybe we'll turn our attention back to you.
If Capela is part of the deal then I'd take on Andersons contract
Melo and Thomas and Melo waives the trade kicker
For
Capela and Anderson and Qi or Hartenstein
In the world of cap management and windows, I think it makes a lot of sense to keep Frank, create cap space, and try to sign someone when Frank, KP, and friends are humming along.
because of the pending KP max (which is going to be huge) and the presence of Hardaway, Noah, and Lee on the books, I don't know that there's going to be an opportunity to add a max level player to a KP/Frank/Willy core via cap space.
KP's new contract will kick in for 2020-21. I believe it lines up that we can fit a max guy summer 2019, and maybe 2 max guys in 2020 (or close to it) if KP doesnt resign early (i.e. if he goes into summer 2020 as a cap hold and not on the new deal).
Summer 2020, everyone is off contract except THJR (fucking player option) and Frank's option. So even signing KP, we have a max deal. Maybe even with Willy's hold. But the #1s will start to add up too, as will a fresh layer of dumb signings.
RE: Would a sign and trade of Rose be part of this?
Obviously if this whole situation is a legit possibility they do have interest in Rose but can only supposedly offer him 2.5. If we help them get Rose then in theory we would get something back so if Melo and a first could get Irving then that piece we get back could be a top ten protection on the pick. Thought?
we can't sign and trade Rose at this point. We had to renounce his rights so that we had cap room for Hardaway.
Do we realistically have enough to make this happen?
Lets say that is possible. During tge draft everybody wanted Melo gone because so we can have a worse record amd get a better pick. All potential trades are not that great involving him. We aren't really getting anything of value. So, on draft night if I said we can unload Melo's contract AND get Irving for the 8th pick in the draft then you guys would not do that? I am mot saying Cleveland would but I have no problem keeping our picks and having a starting roster of Willy, Porzingis, Lee, THJ, and Irving.
it turns the heat up on Morey a little. Throw in Capela and maybe we'll turn our attention back to you.
I don't think they throw in Capela under ANY circumstances. Anything else on the roster outside of CP3, Beard, and Capela is available. To be honest, I don't even need him. I'll take multiple UNPROTECTED firsts and players with contracts that expire by 2019. (Of course that means they have to find non-existent team to take Anderson.)
Obviously if this whole situation is a legit possibility they do have interest in Rose but can only supposedly offer him 2.5. If we help them get Rose then in theory we would get something back so if Melo and a first could get Irving then that piece we get back could be a top ten protection on the pick. Thought?
we can't sign and trade Rose at this point. We had to renounce his rights so that we had cap room for Hardaway.
I'd do that in the blink of an eye. Melo seems committed to Houston at this point though, and I doubt Cleveland wants him anyway. They can get younger players and first rounders for Kyrie.
it turns the heat up on Morey a little. Throw in Capela and maybe we'll turn our attention back to you.
I don't think they throw in Capela under ANY circumstances. Anything else on the roster outside of CP3, Beard, and Capela is available. To be honest, I don't even need him. I'll take multiple UNPROTECTED firsts and players with contracts that expire by 2019. (Of course that means they have to find non-existent team to take Anderson.)
I'd do that in the blink of an eye. Melo seems committed to Houston at this point though, and I doubt Cleveland wants him anyway. They can get younger players and first rounders for Kyrie.
Agreed but what is Cleveland's goal? Is it to get younger and get more assets for the future or is it to go for it all this year in one last chance to get another championship?
In the world of cap management and windows, I think it makes a lot of sense to keep Frank, create cap space, and try to sign someone when Frank, KP, and friends are humming along.
because of the pending KP max (which is going to be huge) and the presence of Hardaway, Noah, and Lee on the books, I don't know that there's going to be an opportunity to add a max level player to a KP/Frank/Willy core via cap space.
KP's new contract will kick in for 2020-21. I believe it lines up that we can fit a max guy summer 2019, and maybe 2 max guys in 2020 (or close to it) if KP doesnt resign early (i.e. if he goes into summer 2020 as a cap hold and not on the new deal).
Summer 2020, everyone is off contract except THJR (fucking player option) and Frank's option. So even signing KP, we have a max deal. Maybe even with Willy's hold. But the #1s will start to add up too, as will a fresh layer of dumb signings.
I think you're a year late on KP. By year 5 (2019/2020) he'll be making $25 million or so. Maybe more depending or where the cap is.
feel comfortable saying Frank isn't going to be a #1 or #2 star on a championship team and I think 99.9% of the world would agree with me.
I would be very surprised if Frank was ever as good as Kyrie. But I also think that Frank could be one of those guys who does a few things very well, and nothing that hurts you (like a Klay Thompson), and that players like that are so crucial to winning basketball. Especially if they arent clocking 30-35 million off your cap. Kyrie isnt a good defender. Frank and KP could be the start of a suffocating defense for all we know.
But the bigger issue is the cap issue to me. There is a lot to be said for developing Frank, who is cheap, and trying to sign someone in 2 summers when KP is thru 4 seasons and hopefully a 25 point player.
feel comfortable saying Frank isn't going to be a #1 or #2 star on a championship team and I think 99.9% of the world would agree with me.
I would be very surprised if Frank was ever as good as Kyrie. But I also think that Frank could be one of those guys who does a few things very well, and nothing that hurts you (like a Klay Thompson), and that players like that are so crucial to winning basketball. Especially if they arent clocking 30-35 million off your cap. Kyrie isnt a good defender. Frank and KP could be the start of a suffocating defense for all we know.
But the bigger issue is the cap issue to me. There is a lot to be said for developing Frank, who is cheap, and trying to sign someone in 2 summers when KP is thru 4 seasons and hopefully a 25 point player.
Deej,
To be clear I wasn't taking a swipe at Frank, rather the need to find another true superstar through the draft with the 2018 pick. People may absolutely love Frank but I find it hard to believe anyone thinks a KP/Frank/Irving top 3 is ever competing for a title.
I think you're a year late on KP. By year 5 (2019/2020) he'll be making $25 million or so. Maybe more depending or where the cap is.
I forgot that the higher pay can start in year 5. So yeah, 2019 is the key summer. We have max cap space to sign someone, or can make it pretty easily by flexing Noah/Thomas or hoping that someone like Lee or THJR is movable.
feel comfortable saying Frank isn't going to be a #1 or #2 star on a championship team and I think 99.9% of the world would agree with me.
I would be very surprised if Frank was ever as good as Kyrie. But I also think that Frank could be one of those guys who does a few things very well, and nothing that hurts you (like a Klay Thompson), and that players like that are so crucial to winning basketball. Especially if they arent clocking 30-35 million off your cap. Kyrie isnt a good defender. Frank and KP could be the start of a suffocating defense for all we know.
But the bigger issue is the cap issue to me. There is a lot to be said for developing Frank, who is cheap, and trying to sign someone in 2 summers when KP is thru 4 seasons and hopefully a 25 point player.
Deej,
To be clear I wasn't taking a swipe at Frank, rather the need to find another true superstar through the draft with the 2018 pick. People may absolutely love Frank but I find it hard to believe anyone thinks a KP/Frank/Irving top 3 is ever competing for a title.
Didnt think you were. Frankly, we'd be fortunate if he was Batum, right? No one is gonna be super excited about a Batum sitting here today (though if he was a Spur people would cream themselves over him).
My point is just -- hope we got Batum or better on a cheap deal and use the cap space before we have to resign him to sign a Kyrie-like player. John Wall, or whoever. Plus we'll have 2018 high pick assuming Melo is moved. No guarantee we get a Wall or similar player, but I also dont know that getting Kyrie is a guarantee is anything. It's probably better than I imagine, but with our clogged cap space it is hard to get super excited. KP-Kyrie-Willie-THJR-XXX would get smoked by GSW.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Im really in no rush to trade Frank
I think you're a year late on KP. By year 5 (2019/2020) he'll be making $25 million or so. Maybe more depending or where the cap is.
I forgot that the higher pay can start in year 5. So yeah, 2019 is the key summer. We have max cap space to sign someone, or can make it pretty easily by flexing Noah/Thomas or hoping that someone like Lee or THJR is movable.
that's the thing - cap space will be tight that summer because hopefully KP will have already signed his max deal when he's eligible to do so (the year prior). The following year, Wily (if he's still around) will be getting paid, although in his case you sign someone else first and then sign him.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Im really in no rush to trade Frank
I think you're a year late on KP. By year 5 (2019/2020) he'll be making $25 million or so. Maybe more depending or where the cap is.
I forgot that the higher pay can start in year 5. So yeah, 2019 is the key summer. We have max cap space to sign someone, or can make it pretty easily by flexing Noah/Thomas or hoping that someone like Lee or THJR is movable.
that's the thing - cap space will be tight that summer because hopefully KP will have already signed his max deal when he's eligible to do so (the year prior). The following year, Wily (if he's still around) will be getting paid, although in his case you sign someone else first and then sign him.
with KP at ~26 million, we have 90.4 million committee, plus #1s in 2018 and 2019. That's basically no space unless THJR is tradable. Which hopefully he is. If you can move him, you have lots of options, even flexing Noah and Thomas. I hate flexing, but dont mind doing it for an expiring if it gets you a max player.
Nice!
Help us out hitdog - tell him to do business with the Knicks! You see how long we've suffered.
That said, there are limited opportunities to add top 15 or so players in league. Even fewer to do that when the player is 25. The Knicks need to make a move on this and do what it takes IMO.
ESPN Sources: On Kyrie Irving front, Cavs were given four preferred landing spots: New York, Miami, San Antonio, Minnesota.
Rapaport - ( New Window )
If Capela is part of the deal then I'd take on Andersons contract
Melo and Thomas and Melo waives the trade kicker
For
Capela and Anderson and Qi or Hartenstein
Quote:
In the world of cap management and windows, I think it makes a lot of sense to keep Frank, create cap space, and try to sign someone when Frank, KP, and friends are humming along.
because of the pending KP max (which is going to be huge) and the presence of Hardaway, Noah, and Lee on the books, I don't know that there's going to be an opportunity to add a max level player to a KP/Frank/Willy core via cap space.
KP's new contract will kick in for 2020-21. I believe it lines up that we can fit a max guy summer 2019, and maybe 2 max guys in 2020 (or close to it) if KP doesnt resign early (i.e. if he goes into summer 2020 as a cap hold and not on the new deal).
Summer 2020, everyone is off contract except THJR (fucking player option) and Frank's option. So even signing KP, we have a max deal. Maybe even with Willy's hold. But the #1s will start to add up too, as will a fresh layer of dumb signings.
we can't sign and trade Rose at this point. We had to renounce his rights so that we had cap room for Hardaway.
I don't think they throw in Capela under ANY circumstances. Anything else on the roster outside of CP3, Beard, and Capela is available. To be honest, I don't even need him. I'll take multiple UNPROTECTED firsts and players with contracts that expire by 2019. (Of course that means they have to find non-existent team to take Anderson.)
So that's not going to help
Wolves- Patton, Bjelica, Dieng, Tyus Jones
Miami- Adebayo, Winslow, Richarson
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Obviously if this whole situation is a legit possibility they do have interest in Rose but can only supposedly offer him 2.5. If we help them get Rose then in theory we would get something back so if Melo and a first could get Irving then that piece we get back could be a top ten protection on the pick. Thought?
we can't sign and trade Rose at this point. We had to renounce his rights so that we had cap room for Hardaway.
Haha. How could I forget. Thanks.
Wolves- Patton, Bjelica, Dieng, Tyus Jones
Miami- Adebayo, Winslow, Richarson
In other words, shit on a stick
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it turns the heat up on Morey a little. Throw in Capela and maybe we'll turn our attention back to you.
I don't think they throw in Capela under ANY circumstances. Anything else on the roster outside of CP3, Beard, and Capela is available. To be honest, I don't even need him. I'll take multiple UNPROTECTED firsts and players with contracts that expire by 2019. (Of course that means they have to find non-existent team to take Anderson.)
lol
Agreed but what is Cleveland's goal? Is it to get younger and get more assets for the future or is it to go for it all this year in one last chance to get another championship?
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In comment 13535287 Deej said:
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In the world of cap management and windows, I think it makes a lot of sense to keep Frank, create cap space, and try to sign someone when Frank, KP, and friends are humming along.
because of the pending KP max (which is going to be huge) and the presence of Hardaway, Noah, and Lee on the books, I don't know that there's going to be an opportunity to add a max level player to a KP/Frank/Willy core via cap space.
KP's new contract will kick in for 2020-21. I believe it lines up that we can fit a max guy summer 2019, and maybe 2 max guys in 2020 (or close to it) if KP doesnt resign early (i.e. if he goes into summer 2020 as a cap hold and not on the new deal).
Summer 2020, everyone is off contract except THJR (fucking player option) and Frank's option. So even signing KP, we have a max deal. Maybe even with Willy's hold. But the #1s will start to add up too, as will a fresh layer of dumb signings.
I think you're a year late on KP. By year 5 (2019/2020) he'll be making $25 million or so. Maybe more depending or where the cap is.
True, but I think the Knicks actually/finally have assets someone would want.
I would be very surprised if Frank was ever as good as Kyrie. But I also think that Frank could be one of those guys who does a few things very well, and nothing that hurts you (like a Klay Thompson), and that players like that are so crucial to winning basketball. Especially if they arent clocking 30-35 million off your cap. Kyrie isnt a good defender. Frank and KP could be the start of a suffocating defense for all we know.
But the bigger issue is the cap issue to me. There is a lot to be said for developing Frank, who is cheap, and trying to sign someone in 2 summers when KP is thru 4 seasons and hopefully a 25 point player.
Quote:
feel comfortable saying Frank isn't going to be a #1 or #2 star on a championship team and I think 99.9% of the world would agree with me.
I would be very surprised if Frank was ever as good as Kyrie. But I also think that Frank could be one of those guys who does a few things very well, and nothing that hurts you (like a Klay Thompson), and that players like that are so crucial to winning basketball. Especially if they arent clocking 30-35 million off your cap. Kyrie isnt a good defender. Frank and KP could be the start of a suffocating defense for all we know.
But the bigger issue is the cap issue to me. There is a lot to be said for developing Frank, who is cheap, and trying to sign someone in 2 summers when KP is thru 4 seasons and hopefully a 25 point player.
Deej,
To be clear I wasn't taking a swipe at Frank, rather the need to find another true superstar through the draft with the 2018 pick. People may absolutely love Frank but I find it hard to believe anyone thinks a KP/Frank/Irving top 3 is ever competing for a title.
Wolves- Patton, Bjelica, Dieng, Tyus Jones
Miami- Adebayo, Winslow, Richarson
In terms of teams Kyrie listed, the Knicks easily have the most to offer.
Yep. He doesn't have a NTC. Who does he think he is? Carmelo?
I think you're a year late on KP. By year 5 (2019/2020) he'll be making $25 million or so. Maybe more depending or where the cap is.
I forgot that the higher pay can start in year 5. So yeah, 2019 is the key summer. We have max cap space to sign someone, or can make it pretty easily by flexing Noah/Thomas or hoping that someone like Lee or THJR is movable.
It's only relevant because teams will offer less if they think he'll bounce after two years.
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In comment 13535314 DanMetroMan said:
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feel comfortable saying Frank isn't going to be a #1 or #2 star on a championship team and I think 99.9% of the world would agree with me.
I would be very surprised if Frank was ever as good as Kyrie. But I also think that Frank could be one of those guys who does a few things very well, and nothing that hurts you (like a Klay Thompson), and that players like that are so crucial to winning basketball. Especially if they arent clocking 30-35 million off your cap. Kyrie isnt a good defender. Frank and KP could be the start of a suffocating defense for all we know.
But the bigger issue is the cap issue to me. There is a lot to be said for developing Frank, who is cheap, and trying to sign someone in 2 summers when KP is thru 4 seasons and hopefully a 25 point player.
Deej,
To be clear I wasn't taking a swipe at Frank, rather the need to find another true superstar through the draft with the 2018 pick. People may absolutely love Frank but I find it hard to believe anyone thinks a KP/Frank/Irving top 3 is ever competing for a title.
Didnt think you were. Frankly, we'd be fortunate if he was Batum, right? No one is gonna be super excited about a Batum sitting here today (though if he was a Spur people would cream themselves over him).
My point is just -- hope we got Batum or better on a cheap deal and use the cap space before we have to resign him to sign a Kyrie-like player. John Wall, or whoever. Plus we'll have 2018 high pick assuming Melo is moved. No guarantee we get a Wall or similar player, but I also dont know that getting Kyrie is a guarantee is anything. It's probably better than I imagine, but with our clogged cap space it is hard to get super excited. KP-Kyrie-Willie-THJR-XXX would get smoked by GSW.
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I think you're a year late on KP. By year 5 (2019/2020) he'll be making $25 million or so. Maybe more depending or where the cap is.
I forgot that the higher pay can start in year 5. So yeah, 2019 is the key summer. We have max cap space to sign someone, or can make it pretty easily by flexing Noah/Thomas or hoping that someone like Lee or THJR is movable.
that's the thing - cap space will be tight that summer because hopefully KP will have already signed his max deal when he's eligible to do so (the year prior). The following year, Wily (if he's still around) will be getting paid, although in his case you sign someone else first and then sign him.
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In comment 13535336 Enzo said:
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I think you're a year late on KP. By year 5 (2019/2020) he'll be making $25 million or so. Maybe more depending or where the cap is.
I forgot that the higher pay can start in year 5. So yeah, 2019 is the key summer. We have max cap space to sign someone, or can make it pretty easily by flexing Noah/Thomas or hoping that someone like Lee or THJR is movable.
that's the thing - cap space will be tight that summer because hopefully KP will have already signed his max deal when he's eligible to do so (the year prior). The following year, Wily (if he's still around) will be getting paid, although in his case you sign someone else first and then sign him.
When does KP ink the extension? Summer 2018?
@BillSimmons
Knicks get: Kyrie, Frye's deal
Suns get: Ntilinka, Shump's deal
Cavs get: Melo, Bledsoe, NYK's 2018/20 1sts, Phx protected 1st
to me, it's not worth the risk. If he agrees to the max, just get him to sign and worry about the cap later.
@BillSimmons
Knicks get: Kyrie, Frye's deal
Suns get: Ntilinka, Shump's deal
Cavs get: Melo, Bledsoe, NYK's 2018/20 1sts, Phx protected 1st
Is this confirmed or a what he thinks would happen? We don't protect any of our firsts?
@BillSimmons
Knicks get: Kyrie, Frye's deal
Suns get: Ntilinka, Shump's deal
Cavs get: Melo, Bledsoe, NYK's 2018/20 1sts, Phx protected 1st
You forgot to put that Bill said "Maybe" to begin this proposal. You made it sound like that was an official trade...
Quote:
Bill SimmonsVerified account
@BillSimmons
Knicks get: Kyrie, Frye's deal
Suns get: Ntilinka, Shump's deal
Cavs get: Melo, Bledsoe, NYK's 2018/20 1sts, Phx protected 1st
You forgot to put that Bill said "Maybe" to begin this proposal. You made it sound like that was an official trade...
Yeah, my bad.
SORRY GUYS. IT WAS A PROPOSAL. NOT CONFIRMED.