I can overlook the Norman meltdown. But I remember vividly the pouting when he didn't get the ball and he showed up Eli. And that bothers me and it's a worry for next year and it's about the only way I can see this team not blowing away the league.
I remember too the disregard (both implicit and explicit) that he showed for his head coach. The bravado not sustained that showed up shirtless in Green Bay and a potential trip to the superbowl crapped on with dropped wide open passes and Eli didn't show him up cause Eli is about team.
I also remember the first time he played; lined up split left (the top of my tv screen), the first graceful move he put on the CB and he was so open a stunned Eli couldn't react, the second play and the cb almost fell down reached out and grabbed for elusive lightning & took a penalty - gladly. A Giant fan since the mid fifties, only LT, Tucker Fredrickson, and Shockey had first moments that compared, only they didn't compare.
This is a generational talent. Brilliant in every way, the best route runner, best hands, most explosive YAC's, and, all his preening aside, still a charmer.
Who thinks he is bigger than the game and bigger than NY. And probably is.
And suddenly there's Marshall, a returning Vereen, a more mature and accomplished Shepard, the wonderful potential of Ephram, King, Lewis, Powe and Randall. And solid tough guy Ellison who is a better receiver and overall player than he's given credit for.
Our kitchen scraps will be other teams entrees.
As great as he is I am not sure that group is much the less for not having him. And the game is still played with one ball...and is he going to pout when Marshall gets red zone attention and Ephram breaks one down the middle.
And it's relative anyway. He will demand (appropriately so) a kings's ransom next year and that means less talent on the roster.
It's bold, it's daring and maybe even suicidial. But I'd trade the brilliance and the promise if I could bring back a high (and easy on the cap) no.`1.
Which is why I'm in the forklift business and don't trade cars or football players.
I simply do not condone pouting...
Ephram, Marshall, Ellis, Shepard, Ellison and Vereen make it an option and maybe even a redundancy.
If your ignorance wasn't on full display in the rest of the shit above, this cements it. An easy on the cap #1 doesn't exist unless it turns out to be a shitty player!
I hope (and expect) that he will someday retire as a Giant.
I wouldn't trade OBJ (unless for a king's ransom).
So the idea of getting a great deal for Beckham is not absurd.
But I would not trade him nor will the Giants. His antics are boorish and immature but not to the degree that they neutralize his talents. Hopefully he will mature, but if he does not, he will probably go the way of Shockley in the end
Dallas built a dynasty when they let a generational player go.
Dikta gave away a dynasty when he went for a generational player.
I think two no.1's or so, is worth more than Odell simply because of the fine receiving corp we would (should?) have without him.
And I am worried about the chemistry this year.
Too bold, too daring, not gonna happen, but maybe should. And injuries happen and I could see letting him go and suddenly praying that you had him and the cries of "folly, off with his head" that would follow.
But "safe" has potential problems too.
Unless a QB is involved I'd almost always trade a "skill" player for a bucketful of picks. Particularly because of the richness of the receiving corp without him.
Just cut him and be done with it.
That too. Don't know what my ask would be but it would start at two 1sts and what team would pay that and a 9 figure extension?
Ephram, Marshall, Ellis, Shepard, Ellison and Vereen make it an option and maybe even a redundancy.
Who is Ephram?
Dallas built a dynasty when they let a generational player go.
No, they didn't. Dallas built a dynasty when they found a chump to trade with.
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it's an opinion you don't share.
Ephram, Marshall, Ellis, Shepard, Ellison and Vereen make it an option and maybe even a redundancy.
Who is Ephram?
I assume he meant Engram, just with a rediculous misspelling...
Ephram, Marshall, Ellis, Shepard, Ellison and Vereen make it an option and maybe even a redundancy.
Nope. It's ridiculous.
Did the Giants re-sign Randle? And isn't Ellis a catcher?
It wouldn't be unprecedented for a team to let a top flight receiver go
Some guys here are insufferable.
1. The LT analogy makes sense..until you look at it. Very different - and not because of the talent level but the position. There is only one ball. And WR's are the biggest diva's in the sport. Historically and currently.
2. I think you're all underestimating the potential for discord. Odell pouted and showed up his QB when he didn't get the ball last year. How is going to react in a situation with so much more talent on the roster. He is about brand and about stats, I am sure he wants the record for yards in four years and it's within reach. Cutting his receptions is going to cost him big money.
Since Jeter his is the biggest figure in NY, he is known throughout the world. How could any young man hold on to perspective agaisnt that?
For all his greatness there is potential for discord and your head is in the sand if you don't see it.
3. I am convinced the Oline is going to be better, the maturation and hard work of Flowers and Hart is almost certainly going to help, Ellison will help and Perkins figures to be better. The D is going to be better with the addition of Goodson and another year in Spags system.
I think this is the best team in the league without Odell.
4. It's not Odell or nothing..It's likely Odell or Shepard. Or Odell or Marshall and yes the talent drop off is significant. But when you mention the Julio Jones or the great Pitts receiver I think the drop off from them to their replacements is much greater. So I don't hold with that analogy either... Because trading Julio would cripple Atlanta, it does not follow that trading Odell would have the same effect.
Understand your need to criticise a controversial and maybe wrongful sentiment, but doesn't mean you should abandon logic.
And I also realise that it's not going to happen.
You are entitled to your opinion but your opinion is based on you perception of the Eli/Beckham relationship and I think you are way off. You think Eli hates getting 7 yard slants taken to the house?
a comment' button and think really, really hard before hitting 'submit'. You're an idiot.
what a fucking joke ... lets trade someone who could quite possibly be the most talented offensive player in franchise history because "Ephram" and Marshall will make him pout
It wouldn't be unprecedented for a team to let a top flight receiver go
Some guys here are insufferable.
joepa -- can you please give us an example of how it wouldn't be unprecedented to trade away a generational talent that was drafted, and arguably the top WR in the NFL during the passing era?
I reject the Cowboys example. Trading away Hershel Walker was a monumentally classic blunder by Minnesota - it's hard to believe that any team would give the Giants what Minnesota gave the Cowboys for Walker -- but if somehow the Giants could get four starters (3 above average offensive line men and an above average power running back) and 3 number ones and 3 number twos and a number three draft picks then I might listen to such a trade...
but the fact is that draft picks are much more valuable now then they were in 1989 .. and you won't see such an offer.
The Redskins didn't trade that much to get RGIII and that was for a supposed franchise QB
I guess as fans we are allowed to dream about having play money - but the Giants are built around having Beckham this year and next -- and I agree with a comment above -- that if you're going to trade Beckham you really should trade Eli as well -- and to me -- right now the only way I would trade Beckham is if Eli was out and I wanted the top QB in next year's draft -- so basically you would trade for next year's number 1 pick and a few sorted other things
but even that is a huge risk unless you have a conviction -- and right now I have a conviction that with Beckham the Giants are one of the best teams in football right now -- and without him they are a defensive powerhouse -- without a real offense
but I ask you -- why sign/keep OV, JPP or Beckham - why sign/keep Jack Rabbit, DRC - if you are trading Beckham? It just doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense because you used all that money and made serious committments for no good reason
The fact that he pouted last year is certainly a harbinger.
But there's lots of other reasons...the wonderful depth at the position being another, the cap space he will take up next year and on and on...
And your"jet remark" was inappropriate and simply an example of someone who couldn't rebut straight up...
1. The LT analogy makes sense..until you look at it. Very different - and not because of the talent level but the position. There is only one ball. And WR's are the biggest diva's in the sport. Historically and currently.
2. I think you're all underestimating the potential for discord. Odell pouted and showed up his QB when he didn't get the ball last year. How is going to react in a situation with so much more talent on the roster. He is about brand and about stats, I am sure he wants the record for yards in four years and it's within reach. Cutting his receptions is going to cost him big money.
Since Jeter his is the biggest figure in NY, he is known throughout the world. How could any young man hold on to perspective agaisnt that?
For all his greatness there is potential for discord and your head is in the sand if you don't see it.
3. I am convinced the Oline is going to be better, the maturation and hard work of Flowers and Hart is almost certainly going to help, Ellison will help and Perkins figures to be better. The D is going to be better with the addition of Goodson and another year in Spags system.
I think this is the best team in the league without Odell.
4. It's not Odell or nothing..It's likely Odell or Shepard. Or Odell or Marshall and yes the talent drop off is significant. But when you mention the Julio Jones or the great Pitts receiver I think the drop off from them to their replacements is much greater. So I don't hold with that analogy either... Because trading Julio would cripple Atlanta, it does not follow that trading Odell would have the same effect.
The nice thing about having true greatness on your roster is that you can recognize how normal NFL talent pales in comparison. Sterling Shepard, if he stays healthy, is going to be a good NFL player and have a nice career. But I don't think you're going to find anyone anywhere who is going to agree with the idea that he would be a solid #1 WR for any team, including this one, if hypothetically Beckham was not here. He's not that kind of player, and that isn't an insult. Players have their roles.
If I believed that then ...of course he's right.
But consider: Evan Engram, Veereen, Ellison, Marshall, the anticipated maturation of Hart and Flowers, Richenburgs anticipated return from an injury that limited him, the maturation of Perkins...I believe those additions mean the offense will be superb without Odell and moreover, that there's potential problems with Odell.
But again, if you believe the offense will be lousy without him and superb with him...then a trade makes no sense.
Yes, but overall a receiving corp sans Odell of Marshall, Shepard, Evan Engram, Vereen, Ellison and one of either King, Lewis, Powe is very very good.
And so is cap space (that might mean holding onto someone like Collins), a high no.1 and less potential for destructive discord.
you do not trade a proven "generational talent" who is still very young and hasn't even entered his prime (while still having the best start to a career for any WR - ever) for the false hope of a draft pick.
Yes, but overall a receiving corp sans Odell of Marshall, Shepard, Evan Engram, Vereen, Ellison and one of either King, Lewis, Powe is very very good.
And so is cap space (that might mean holding onto someone like Collins), a high no.1 and less potential for destructive discord.
Marshall is 32 years old today. That same group without Marshall is not "very very good" whatsoever.
My thoughts exactly, he can't be this stupid. Can he?
It wouldn't be unprecedented for a team to let a top flight receiver go
Some guys here are insufferable.
You have this notion that opinions are somehow immune to criticism, both soft and harsh. Stupid opinions (and vast majority of them are stupid to be honest) deserve stupid responses. As I've always said, "play stupid games, win stupid prizes."
You know how I know this?
BECAUSE THEY DON'T FUCKING EXIST!
eg, Beckham + some combo of picks for Derek Carr I'd be listening, but Oakland wouldn't consider parting with who will likely be the best QB in the league within 5 years.
Also, this is Marshall's swan song. He's basically a rental. Engram has yet to take a snap. SS is a completely different player. Vereen (who I think is wildly underrated on this board) keeps getting injured.
Beckham is still the Giants' offense.
but there would need to be a young All-Pro caliber player involved. Draft picks are false hope and what ifs that offer exciting "upside"
if you trade Odell - you better be getting a player like Khalil Mack in return.
Yes, but overall a receiving corp sans Odell of Marshall, Shepard, Evan Engram, Vereen, Ellison and one of either King, Lewis, Powe is very very good.
And so is cap space (that might mean holding onto someone like Collins), a high no.1 and less potential for destructive discord.
Well here is the core of your faulty assumptions -- that the Giants have a good receiving core without Beckham -- if last year was any indication -- you were not following what was going on -- because he was the main reason we had a winning season -- without him the season was meh even with the defense
so you are adding an aging vet whose skills are probably diminishing, and an unproven first rounder, and relying on a core that really didn't produce last year -- that's a recipe for disaster
I also think you are under-rating Beckham severely -- this kid has blown the doors off the record books for production for a WR in the first three years -- over any WR in football -- ever
He has demonstrated that he has the ability and drive to be the all time great -- Joe Montana -- who threw to one of the greatest receivers in the game thinks so -- so I just think your analysis regarding his ability to be a #1 is highly flawed
these are the only players I would consider accepting in a trade for Odell - and most of those guys I would not do straight up.
Ephram, Marshall, Ellis, Shepard, Ellison and Vereen make it an option and maybe even a redundancy.
frizz, while I appreciate your sentiment you will never win a debate on BBI. This place can be intolerable .
So the idea of getting a great deal for Beckham is not absurd.
But I would not trade him nor will the Giants. His antics are boorish and immature but not to the degree that they neutralize his talents. Hopefully he will mature, but if he does not, he will probably go the way of Shockley in the end
++1
leading to the inevitable:
Beckham is not going to be traded and surely not for the reason you stated.
and you're a dipshit
thats what happens when you instantly set the NFL on fire. he's not even in his prime yet - which is disturbing.
It wouldn't be unprecedented for a team to let a top flight receiver go
Some guys here are insufferable.
If all posters were like you this would be a great forum
It's surprising that a big Giants fan missed the entire 2011 playoff run. It was awesome....Hakeem Nicks - IMV when healthy only a mild step below OBJ as a player - went str8 beast mode. A Fitzgeraldian like post season.
Check it out sometime.
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troll no?
But he has the guts to stand his ground instead of hurling insults
My thoughts exactly, he can't be this stupid. Can he?
Those Giants ran the ball like nobody's business, which today's Giants don't. Also, the defense they played back then would result in more flags than you find outside the U.N. if played today. The game has changed considerably since McConkey, Johnson, and the rest were on the team, which makes a WR like OBJ that much more valuable.
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Guy shares an "Opinion", and gets attacked personally. Well done boys.
It wouldn't be unprecedented for a team to let a top flight receiver go
Some guys here are insufferable.
If all posters were like you this would be a great forum
Maybe you, joepa and grizz can start your own forum? That would be entertaining
First of all, the Giants would never even consider it. Forget the football aspect of things, this is a kid that is a gold mine from a marketing standpoint. For that reason alone, it won't happen. That's not even factoring in the football part.
This is a young kid who has burst into the league as one of, if not the top playmaker in the NFL. There is no smoke and mirrors either, this is a guy with physical skills better than 99% of the league. The talent, work ethic and desire are all there. He's not a bad person and his teammates and coaches all seem to like and respect him. We aren't in the lockerroom so all we can go by is how he is percieved by his colleagues. Certain people would rather create a narrative based on media stories, but that's usually not a good idea.
You don't trade talents like Odell unless you are really far from winning and you need to rebuild. Even then, it would take a haul and a crapload of convincing for me to even consider it. Generational talent who hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential. Those guys don't get traded, specifically when you are SB contenders.
It's more than fair to call the thought of trading Odell ridiculous and that's being too kind.
don't forget the potential cap savings! oh and the "A" grade we get from ESPN on draft day with all our shiny new draft picks!
Ephram, Marshall, Ellis, Shepard, Ellison and Vereen make it an option and maybe even a redundancy.
...as if the championship wasn't largely driven by the guy who most resembled Odell on the other side of the ball.
Idiocracy people, Darwin is having a good laugh somewhere.
It wouldn't be unprecedented for a team to let a top flight receiver go
Some guys here are insufferable.
Somewhere along the line our society got the notion that all opinions are created equal. They are not.
Opposing viewpoints are not always equal, some are backed by logic and facts, some are not.
"It's just his opinion" shouldn't be an adequate defense for a horribly misguided statement.
don't underestimate BBI ... he could put up 2,000 yards this year and someone will still bitch about him skipping those voluntary workouts - unless he also wins Superbowl MVP.
then I think BBI would be ok with Beckham.
...I don't agree with your post but I kinda know where you're coming from.
I will say that if I could score two front-line Pro Bowl (or near Pro Bowl) talented O-linemen, I would be tempted.
But, even then, I wouldn't trade OBJ. You have to remember that -- aside from all the headaches he creates for defenses with the ball in his hands -- he creates nearly as many problems by just being on the field!
And with the receivers we now have on the team (including our brand spanking new TE from ol' Miss), this receiving corp is gonna force defenses into a question they may not be able to answer:
Who the heck do I cover?
But it all begins with OBJ!
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it's an opinion you don't share.
Ephram, Marshall, Ellis, Shepard, Ellison and Vereen make it an option and maybe even a redundancy.
frizz, while I appreciate your sentiment you will never win a debate on BBI. This place can be intolerable .
Then leave, maybe? Stop acting like a pouty little teenage girl and constantly complain about how bad other posters are or whatever. You're a grown damn adult, maybe have some thick skin or have the maturity to ignore other posts if you hate it so much.
Well that's the thing. The "Pro-OBJers" already have league-leading numbers, All-Pro 1st team appearances, and historical context on their side. The "Anti-OBJers" (why is this a thing?) just keep referencing instagram and a fear of possibility of future-misbehavior.
Odell is a great talent, maybe even a generational talent, but those saying that there aren't red flags with the guy are looking at him through blue colored glasses. Rams rookie game, Norman game, punching walls in GB, Boat Trip, Miserable playoff game, and I am missing a ton.
Now...Odell is also going to get PAID in 2 years, if not sooner. PAID to the point of tying up 1/12th of a salary cap in one non-qb player. It's scary. Also realize that if we DO give Odell a MEGA deal with multiple years it will be through the post-Eli era.
If a team called with 2 first rounders AND a good young cost controlled linebacker I would make the deal in a heartbeat. Jerry also knows how to draft WR early. His track record there is very very good.
At some point people really have to pick what they want out of a football player and stick to it. If a player is seen on the sideline that seems to be unaffected by a loss, he gets killed. When doesn't tolerate losing well, he gets "red flagged".
At some point people really have to pick what they want out of a football player and stick to it. If a player is seen on the sideline that seems to be unaffected by a loss, he gets killed. When doesn't tolerate losing well, he gets "red flagged".
But, but, but...the boat trip! And he had a bad game in the playoffs!!!
I'd love to know the shit all these holier than thou clowns were doing when they were 24. Beckham went on a boat trip on his day off a week before a game. Trade him for a couple of useless picks, he's a disaster!
Odell is a great talent, maybe even a generational talent, but those saying that there aren't red flags with the guy are looking at him through blue colored glasses. Rams rookie game, Norman game, punching walls in GB, Boat Trip, Miserable playoff game, and I am missing a ton.
Now...Odell is also going to get PAID in 2 years, if not sooner. PAID to the point of tying up 1/12th of a salary cap in one non-qb player. It's scary. Also realize that if we DO give Odell a MEGA deal with multiple years it will be through the post-Eli era.
If a team called with 2 first rounders AND a good young cost controlled linebacker I would make the deal in a heartbeat. Jerry also knows how to draft WR early. His track record there is very very good.
I guess you never want good players then. Just get rid of everyone who's all pro, God forbid they get their second contract.
For example, if you said Beckham for CLE two first rounders, a 2nd, and Joe Thomas along with who you'd target with those picks and why you might've got a better dialogue going.
Sounds like someone's been watching too much basketball. The NFL doesn't work this way. Everyone is killing themselves to find superstars, they're not trading them away for peanuts.
Sounds like someone's been watching too much basketball. The NFL doesn't work this way. Everyone is killing themselves to find superstars, they're not trading them away for peanuts.
Didn't say I would. But it's a lot more defendable than Beckham for some vague "easy on the cap high 1."
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That's a great fucking deal for the other team - since everyone has basically devalued the LB position the same way we have forever, and 'first round pick' is basically meaningless (unless they're both top 10 picks, which is impossible to guarantee).
Sounds like someone's been watching too much basketball. The NFL doesn't work this way. Everyone is killing themselves to find superstars, they're not trading them away for peanuts.
Didn't say I would. But it's a lot more defendable than Beckham for some vague "easy on the cap high 1."
I think he was responding to ThatLimerickGuy, not you
So the original post is meaningless at this point.
Try to pause for a second and separate not liking him from what is good for the financial and on-field success of the team. He's done one thing to hurt the team - he got suspended for a single game 3 years ago. It was quantifiably stupid, he paid his price. The NY Post quality sagas of the rest are beyond laughable and have had zero on-field impact. It's at worst annoying. It annoys Jerry Reese, it probably annoys Macadoo, it obviously annoys lots of fans.
But bottomline, no professional football organization is going to subtract talent over being annoying. The better target is anyone on the team who's "distracted" by what a teammate does off the field. Those are the mentally weak individuals who are excuse makers. Get those guys out of here.
The Giants are well positioned in the medium and longterm, financially and talent wise. If health holds up, when Eli Manning leaves this team, it will be stocked with talented veterans on both sides of the ball, including Odell Beckham. The team will free-up $25M in cap space and have the likely choice of handing the reigns to a talented back-up quarterback with a few years in the system, or the flexibility to survey the free agent market.
Do you really understand that Herschel Walker was considered a generational talent.?
Do you think "generational talent" might mean he's a diva and might have conflicts when there's significant other talent on the roster.?
Do you think the Mianmi trip and jumping tradition and not flying back with the team was about team...?
The Norman incident was he thinking diva or team?
Was the net incident about team or diva?
Was the bare shirt about diva or team?
Do you think he's going to sign cheaply next year or go for a king's ransom.? Do you understand that "generation talents" sometimes cost so much that muliples good players might be the way to go?
No one could have done more than Odell as the only option last year. Teams doubled him, they played deep cover two's and he still got his yards. But sometimes a brilliant one man's team doesn't fit in with talent, wants the ball, wants the attention, wants the big bucks and the records.
Is he a diva? I posted on the cowboy board that Zeke is a thug. They are in denial...event after event, charge after charge and he's just a teenager being a teenager. Two guys decked, two charges of D.V in Fla and Ohio, a history covered up in college, 100 miles and hour, and he pulls down a woman's blouse in public. And these events are going on while the League is investigating him.
I don't want to transpose directly to OBJ. Except to say that patterns start to add up and can be defining. There's a pattern of "me" before team with OBJ and it think it might be this year's narrative. And yes, I get it, there's no attempt here to call OBJ a thug, and he's never had a hint of anything illegal...though I"m sure that disclaimer won't work and someone's going to misquote .
And it works for him. He's an international star, he's Jeter's heir, 25 million from Nike and they're lining up, he's what Matt Harvey looked like just two years ago.
And again, no one's saying he's going to be disruptive, just that the potential or the possibility should be part of the equation.
No man, here is what you don't get....
You cannot come in here and just start a thread that says "I would trade Odell" without getting ripped a new asshole by most of the members here. You came one pubic hair short of starting an all out prison riot.
It wouldn't be unprecedented for a team to let a top flight receiver go
Some guys here are insufferable.
Yes, some guys here are definitely insufferable.
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if the Giants are better for trading a generational talent, would you do it?
No man, here is what you don't get....
You cannot come in here and just start a thread that says "I would trade Odell" without getting ripped a new asshole by most of the members here. You came one pubic hair short of starting an all out prison riot.
And not only that, but he's completely ignoring how the picks we get in return could end up being Robert Gallery and Charles Rodgers. Yeah, that's a risk worth taking...
Guess not...
I hope everyone is having a chill Saturday
Re: the thread:
I understand the perspective,but lets try to win a SB WITH him, and Eli, first.
This board is visited by guys who are a walking encyclopedia when it comes to the NFL. It is also visited by less informed fans. Then there are fans like me, since 56, watch every game, love the Giants and the NFL who don t have the knowledge of the game of some here, or the knowledge of the league or the colleges.
I thought that s what this site was about, Giants fans discussing their team, sharing opinions. Criticize the point being made all you want, again I wouldn't trade Beckham.
But some take the opinions personally and respond as such. Most of the people who post here have no personal contact with the guys we root for and never will. Yet they take it as a personal affront when the players are portrayed in a negative manner Ok, disagree, but the personal attacks are so juvenile and at least for me detract greatly from the site.
Do you really understand that Herschel Walker was considered a generational talent.?
No, I didn't. I thought Walker had the potential to be a very good running back. Which he was. And yes, if a team offered me 3 firsts in 4 years, 3 2nds in 3 consecutive years and whatever else was in that trade for ODB, you would be a fool not to take it.
No. I don't think you know what "generational talent" means.
What tradition? He had a day off and it was New Years Day
Was the net incident about team or diva?
Was the bare shirt about diva or team?
All of this is just a big bowl of stupid and I wont play.
Probably the first cogent thought you've made....ever.
Yes he will cost a ton. But there is really nobody else who can do what he does as far as drawing doubles automatically and being able to be a TD threat on literally every play. He is fearless and his teammates seem to like him a ton.
Unintelligible
I don't want to transpose directly to OBJ. Except to say that patterns start to add up and can be defining. There's a pattern of "me" before team with OBJ and it think it might be this year's narrative. And yes, I get it, there's no attempt here to call OBJ a thug, and he's never had a hint of anything illegal...though I"m sure that disclaimer won't work and someone's going to misquote .
And it works for him. He's an international star, he's Jeter's heir, 25 million from Nike and they're lining up, he's what Matt Harvey looked like just two years ago.
And again, no one's saying he's going to be disruptive, just that the potential or the possibility should be part of the equation.
So you troll the Cowboys boards? Perhaps you should stay over there with them you geek.
Anyone who thinks you trade a young, top 5 WR is smoking meth.
Not being contrarian - why do you think he's not busting it or working hard?
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He's going to have to work hard and earn his opportunities. I want to see him bustin it like the great ones did. I want to see him succeed. I want to see him be the best on the field. Only one way that happens. Does he understand what his priority needs to be? We will see.
Not being contrarian - why do you think he's not busting it or working hard?
Because he doesn't and is just assuming based on OBJ's personality that seems to grate some fans the wrong way for some strange reason. Half these complainers hate dancing on the field and after TD celebrations. So they assume that he doesn't have his priority straight, especially since he's also turned into a trend setting media sensation in his first few years.
People make assumptions even in the face of what has always been reported about how hard OBJ works and how much he cares about winning. People will always place their own opinions over the facts. That's how it works these days.
At least you're consistent...
However...Parcells quit Dallas mainly because Jones re-signed TO while Bill was vacationing in the Carribean. Parcells so loathed Owens that he couldn't even stomach calling him by name. He just identified him by the player's #.
Situations aren't the same . TO was older. Beckham, though frequently a prick, has not turned it inward on his teammates and coaches-at least yet. I don't think it will go there . But it could .
Do you genuinely feel going to Miami caused his outlying performance? I tend to think it was the finger injury he was playing through, the bitter cold, at least one of the throws being out of reach, and that it was his first play-off game.
Those all seem more likely to disrupt play than where he was 6 days before. But to each his own I guess.
Personally never get too excited rooting for jerks. Michael Boley, Josh Brown, Christian Peters, guys like that. I've just never seen or heard OBJ do anything to put him in the range to not root for or trust.
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Odell and Eli to Miami for Jarvis Landry and Tannehill. That way we can retain Odell's babysitter the WR coach from LSU to serve in the same capacity with Landry.
At least you're consistent...
Thanks, I had to work to come up with as ridiculous an idea as the premise of this one.
Well, yes.
What everyone remembers is the playoff games, of course, but Plaxico was added to a team that was about to go on a string of playoff run years and Beckham was drafted at a time when the team was bad enough to have a top 10 pick.
57 Games, 244 receptions 3,681 yards, 33 touchdowns
43 Games, 288 receptions 4,122 yards, 35 touchdowns
We're not trading him. I will never understand why people waste time writing up these giant, unreadable walls of texts proposing something that's never going to happen.
I reject the Cowboys example. Trading away Hershel Walker was a monumentally classic blunder by Minnesota - it's hard to believe that any team would give the Giants what Minnesota gave the Cowboys for Walker -- but if somehow the Giants could get four starters (3 above average offensive line men and an above average power running back) and 3 number ones and 3 number twos and a number three draft picks then I might listen to such a trade...
And another thing: Everybody remembers the Herschel-Walker-to-Minnesota trade because it was crucial to building the Cowboy dynasty. Nobody remembers the Eric Dickerson-to-Indianapolis trade because the haul of draft picks the Rams got back didn't amount to much. The draft is a crapshoot, always, full stop.
I sometimes feel like fans want a player to be All-Pro, never hurt, always happy, attending every event, early to arrive and late to leave, and to come over on their off days to wash the car, talk football and coach their kids, then say thank you for the privilege.
These are very young, rich, somewhat pampered elite athletes. Immature guys act immature. A lot of them grow up as they, well, grow up. As a fan you take the bad with the good, as long as the bad isn't criminal.
Odell is a great talent, maybe even a generational talent, but those saying that there aren't red flags with the guy are looking at him through blue colored glasses. Rams rookie game, Norman game, punching walls in GB, Boat Trip, Miserable playoff game, and I am missing a ton.
Now...Odell is also going to get PAID in 2 years, if not sooner. PAID to the point of tying up 1/12th of a salary cap in one non-qb player. It's scary. Also realize that if we DO give Odell a MEGA deal with multiple years it will be through the post-Eli era.
If a team called with 2 first rounders AND a good young cost controlled linebacker I would make the deal in a heartbeat. Jerry also knows how to draft WR early. His track record there is very very good.
So you're citing a game where Beckham had a few drops as some sort of indictment or example of a troubled player? One that isn't worth the trouble? One bad fricking game? One????
The Rams rookie game where he took a gigantic turd all over the St. Louis defense? What went wrong that day other than the fisher led rams acting like complete trash? Of course you mentioned the over stated Norman game. The same Norman that proceeds to get flagged and beaten every time these two square off while Beckham doesn't do anything wrong.
And you're missing so many other examples? Name them.
None of the examples matter enough. He's a keeper unless his legs and game fall apart. Once again people over think shit like this. The guy is a amazing football player. He needs some maturation but not on the field. And his off the field stuff isn't nearly as troubling as some insist on believing.
Think about that for a second. You want the guy traded because of shit you read that had absolutely nothing to do with the game of football.
Crazy.
But he got into a fight with Norman. And he had a bad game once. Once. One bad game out of forty two or so! One bad game! The guy is amazing out there. He's Baryshnikov on the gridiron.
Jerry rice was the best ever because he worked harder than anyone and was as driven and perfect as an athlete can be on and off the clock. We want Beckham to be that great for that long. He's on his way but the game gets harder it doesn't get easier. Beckham will need to keep up.
Dumb
Dumb
Dumb
Dumb (to Beetoven's 5th)
Playing off of that, how often do you draft a player of OBJ's caliber and impact? Saying that he's the best pick since LT illustrates that - it was 33 years between LT and OBJ. So assuming that the Giants aren't abnormally poor at identifying talent, you could make the case that they'd need 33 1st round picks to ensure that you could get another player on the level of LT/OBJ.
For 33 1st rounders, maybe.
you don't necessarily have to "like" him - but you also do not even consider trading a PROVEN ALL-PRO/FUTURE HOF caliber player @ only 24 years old for draft picks.
draft picks guarantee nothing. there's maybe a handful of players I would even consider trading Beckham before - and factoring in age - I doubt I'd trade him straight up for anyone.
he is incredible. we are lucky to have him. I'd like to keep him.
It's a miserable way to run a business and a team. Plenty of guys I'm sure the staff totally like and suck. Those guys get cut.
There are totally guys the staff might not like on the team who are good and they stay.
Worrying about optics, feelings, liking, not liking, etc. is what fans do. Well, and also some shitty teams. Thankfully our team doesn't do that.
How about this....if Webb is legit (which I strongly believe he is) then we re-sign Beckham because oyr QB woll
Derek Carr no question. 10+ year ascendant franchise QB > any WR.
Mack or Donald I wouldn't complain. Von if NYG ran a 3-4.
Julio would mostly be a push.
Probably Landon Collins. Guy's a monster.
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draft picks guarantee nothing. there's maybe a handful of players I would even consider trading Beckham before - and factoring in age - I doubt I'd trade him straight up for anyone.
Derek Carr no question. 10+ year ascendant franchise QB > any WR.
Mack or Donald I wouldn't complain. Von if NYG ran a 3-4.
Julio would mostly be a push.
Probably Landon Collins. Guy's a monster.
I can concede Carr because he's a QB. Mack is interesting but I still think I take Odell. I definitely take Odell over Donald and I love Collins, but he's well behind Odell.
Julio Jones is 28, has his share of injuries and doesn't score at the rate Beckham does (not even close actually). No way I trade Beckham straight up for Jones.
How about this....if Webb is legit (which I strongly believe he is) then we re-sign Beckham because oyr QB woll
because your "real concern" is absolutely ridiculous. the cap is rising, contracts can be re-negotiated, etc. you don't make a deal because of a 2 year hypothetical.
Eli's contract will be off the books around the same time line ... and you can be creative with structuring contracts - Odell's early years can be relatively light and escalate in years 2-5.
I'm tired of the constant bashing of Odell just because he has an ego. In any high pressure profession you are going to get people with big egos, it's part of life. The guy happens to be the best at what he does so I don't really mind him having an ego, but I think everyone else should realize that having an ego does not at all mean his is a bad teammate or a distraction to the team.
People are so damn sensitive these days.
Still I'd trade him.
Now he's on a video claiming he wants to be the highest paid player in the game.
That's going to drive his trade value down, but i'd still trade him.
I think he's going to be a distraction going forward. I think there's only one ball and we have enough great receivers to handle his loss and ALWAYS it's about what he'd bring back.
Still I'd trade him.
Now he's on a video claiming he wants to be the highest paid player in the game.
That's going to drive his trade value down, but i'd still trade him.
I think he's going to be a distraction going forward. I think there's only one ball and we have enough great receivers to handle his loss and ALWAYS it's about what he'd bring back.
GTFOH.
Face in palm...
Still I'd trade him.
Now he's on a video claiming he wants to be the highest paid player in the game.
That's going to drive his trade value down, but i'd still trade him.
I think he's going to be a distraction going forward. I think there's only one ball and we have enough great receivers to handle his loss and ALWAYS it's about what he'd bring back.
Who?
Don't sell him short, B. I think he really is that stupid.
TRAID HIM!
No to mention Eli's cap will be off the books right at the start of Beckhams new deal. And since QB's almost never become free agents, we don't have to worry about paying big QB money to anyone, anytime soon.
Shall I list the 100 or so examples of players acting like complete maniacs, or locker rooms filled with alleged or supposed toxicity and disharmony and yet despite these "issues" the teams they played for WON, and WON BIG???
Should I? Nope..because you won't read it anyway. You love this shit.
Do coaches and players get annoyed with incessant questions on shit like this? Of course. But here's the thing, the media is always going to annoy the coaches and players. They have to ask something.
Beckham wants to be paid. That's a distraction????? They all want to get paid!
No way is Beckham getting paid what Newhouse. He's slightly behind Flacco as one of the top QBs in the league. Flacco plus plus foot speed puts him over the top though.
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steelers are doing it, falcolns are doing it, patriots are doing it, i dont see how you cant do it? giants have cap space as it is and the cap just keeps going up...
No to mention Eli's cap will be off the books right at the start of Beckhams new deal. And since QB's almost never become free agents, we don't have to worry about paying big QB money to anyone, anytime soon.
Adjusted for inflation the Giants paid WRs and QBs and pass rushers and DBs and OL. And they won 2 super bowls doing so.
Beckham is worth the money. Great players that turn games on a dime are worth the money. Some of you guys just don't get it. Not paying super stars is just as risky as paying them, if not more so.
Pay the players. Then pray. It's how this works. If you don't pay the player you've already lost by running the risk that you won't adequately replace him.
The guy has some maturity issues. Many of his issues were related to his passion for the game - he's a fiery, competitive player. Let's see, his worst incidents were: Getting into a fight on field with Norman (bad, let himself get goaded or anger get the best of him, hopefully lesson learned there); kicking a net on sideline (OK, as long as he didn't hurt himself); and the boat and ensuing bad playoff game (Can't be sure of the link, but bad optics, he should know better). He's really never done anything that has me that concerned, other than act a bit immature. Some people buy the media line about him hook, line and sinker - but there's about 0.0000001 chance the Giants trade him. He's exactly what you hope for in a draft pick - one of the best at his position almost from game 1. He's had a few issues, but there's more off field effect than on (except the Norman fight, and I do think he's learned to control himself better, tho he'll always show emotion in tough/big games). Any number of reasons he could have struggled in 1st playoff game, I'm banking on him being better going forward. I'd rather watch and root for the Giants wwith him than without....our offense would be soooo terrible to watch if he's gone, and no trade will replace his contributions.