I can overlook the Norman meltdown. But I remember vividly the pouting when he didn't get the ball and he showed up Eli. And that bothers me and it's a worry for next year and it's about the only way I can see this team not blowing away the league.
I remember too the disregard (both implicit and explicit) that he showed for his head coach. The bravado not sustained that showed up shirtless in Green Bay and a potential trip to the superbowl crapped on with dropped wide open passes and Eli didn't show him up cause Eli is about team.
I also remember the first time he played; lined up split left (the top of my tv screen), the first graceful move he put on the CB and he was so open a stunned Eli couldn't react, the second play and the cb almost fell down reached out and grabbed for elusive lightning & took a penalty - gladly. A Giant fan since the mid fifties, only LT, Tucker Fredrickson, and Shockey had first moments that compared, only they didn't compare.
This is a generational talent. Brilliant in every way, the best route runner, best hands, most explosive YAC's, and, all his preening aside, still a charmer.
Who thinks he is bigger than the game and bigger than NY. And probably is.
And suddenly there's Marshall, a returning Vereen, a more mature and accomplished Shepard, the wonderful potential of Ephram, King, Lewis, Powe and Randall. And solid tough guy Ellison who is a better receiver and overall player than he's given credit for.
Our kitchen scraps will be other teams entrees.
As great as he is I am not sure that group is much the less for not having him. And the game is still played with one ball...and is he going to pout when Marshall gets red zone attention and Ephram breaks one down the middle.
And it's relative anyway. He will demand (appropriately so) a kings's ransom next year and that means less talent on the roster.
It's bold, it's daring and maybe even suicidial. But I'd trade the brilliance and the promise if I could bring back a high (and easy on the cap) no.`1.
Which is why I'm in the forklift business and don't trade cars or football players.
1. The LT analogy makes sense..until you look at it. Very different - and not because of the talent level but the position. There is only one ball. And WR's are the biggest diva's in the sport. Historically and currently.
2. I think you're all underestimating the potential for discord. Odell pouted and showed up his QB when he didn't get the ball last year. How is going to react in a situation with so much more talent on the roster. He is about brand and about stats, I am sure he wants the record for yards in four years and it's within reach. Cutting his receptions is going to cost him big money.
Since Jeter his is the biggest figure in NY, he is known throughout the world. How could any young man hold on to perspective agaisnt that?
For all his greatness there is potential for discord and your head is in the sand if you don't see it.
3. I am convinced the Oline is going to be better, the maturation and hard work of Flowers and Hart is almost certainly going to help, Ellison will help and Perkins figures to be better. The D is going to be better with the addition of Goodson and another year in Spags system.
I think this is the best team in the league without Odell.
4. It's not Odell or nothing..It's likely Odell or Shepard. Or Odell or Marshall and yes the talent drop off is significant. But when you mention the Julio Jones or the great Pitts receiver I think the drop off from them to their replacements is much greater. So I don't hold with that analogy either... Because trading Julio would cripple Atlanta, it does not follow that trading Odell would have the same effect.
The nice thing about having true greatness on your roster is that you can recognize how normal NFL talent pales in comparison. Sterling Shepard, if he stays healthy, is going to be a good NFL player and have a nice career. But I don't think you're going to find anyone anywhere who is going to agree with the idea that he would be a solid #1 WR for any team, including this one, if hypothetically Beckham was not here. He's not that kind of player, and that isn't an insult. Players have their roles.
If I believed that then ...of course he's right.
But consider: Evan Engram, Veereen, Ellison, Marshall, the anticipated maturation of Hart and Flowers, Richenburgs anticipated return from an injury that limited him, the maturation of Perkins...I believe those additions mean the offense will be superb without Odell and moreover, that there's potential problems with Odell.
But again, if you believe the offense will be lousy without him and superb with him...then a trade makes no sense.
Yes, but overall a receiving corp sans Odell of Marshall, Shepard, Evan Engram, Vereen, Ellison and one of either King, Lewis, Powe is very very good.
And so is cap space (that might mean holding onto someone like Collins), a high no.1 and less potential for destructive discord.
you do not trade a proven "generational talent" who is still very young and hasn't even entered his prime (while still having the best start to a career for any WR - ever) for the false hope of a draft pick.
Yes, but overall a receiving corp sans Odell of Marshall, Shepard, Evan Engram, Vereen, Ellison and one of either King, Lewis, Powe is very very good.
And so is cap space (that might mean holding onto someone like Collins), a high no.1 and less potential for destructive discord.
Marshall is 32 years old today. That same group without Marshall is not "very very good" whatsoever.
My thoughts exactly, he can't be this stupid. Can he?
It wouldn't be unprecedented for a team to let a top flight receiver go
Some guys here are insufferable.
You have this notion that opinions are somehow immune to criticism, both soft and harsh. Stupid opinions (and vast majority of them are stupid to be honest) deserve stupid responses. As I've always said, "play stupid games, win stupid prizes."
You know how I know this?
BECAUSE THEY DON'T FUCKING EXIST!
eg, Beckham + some combo of picks for Derek Carr I'd be listening, but Oakland wouldn't consider parting with who will likely be the best QB in the league within 5 years.
Also, this is Marshall's swan song. He's basically a rental. Engram has yet to take a snap. SS is a completely different player. Vereen (who I think is wildly underrated on this board) keeps getting injured.
Beckham is still the Giants' offense.
but there would need to be a young All-Pro caliber player involved. Draft picks are false hope and what ifs that offer exciting "upside"
if you trade Odell - you better be getting a player like Khalil Mack in return.
Yes, but overall a receiving corp sans Odell of Marshall, Shepard, Evan Engram, Vereen, Ellison and one of either King, Lewis, Powe is very very good.
And so is cap space (that might mean holding onto someone like Collins), a high no.1 and less potential for destructive discord.
Well here is the core of your faulty assumptions -- that the Giants have a good receiving core without Beckham -- if last year was any indication -- you were not following what was going on -- because he was the main reason we had a winning season -- without him the season was meh even with the defense
so you are adding an aging vet whose skills are probably diminishing, and an unproven first rounder, and relying on a core that really didn't produce last year -- that's a recipe for disaster
I also think you are under-rating Beckham severely -- this kid has blown the doors off the record books for production for a WR in the first three years -- over any WR in football -- ever
He has demonstrated that he has the ability and drive to be the all time great -- Joe Montana -- who threw to one of the greatest receivers in the game thinks so -- so I just think your analysis regarding his ability to be a #1 is highly flawed
these are the only players I would consider accepting in a trade for Odell - and most of those guys I would not do straight up.
Ephram, Marshall, Ellis, Shepard, Ellison and Vereen make it an option and maybe even a redundancy.
frizz, while I appreciate your sentiment you will never win a debate on BBI. This place can be intolerable .
So the idea of getting a great deal for Beckham is not absurd.
But I would not trade him nor will the Giants. His antics are boorish and immature but not to the degree that they neutralize his talents. Hopefully he will mature, but if he does not, he will probably go the way of Shockley in the end
++1
leading to the inevitable:
Beckham is not going to be traded and surely not for the reason you stated.
and you're a dipshit
thats what happens when you instantly set the NFL on fire. he's not even in his prime yet - which is disturbing.
It wouldn't be unprecedented for a team to let a top flight receiver go
Some guys here are insufferable.
If all posters were like you this would be a great forum
It's surprising that a big Giants fan missed the entire 2011 playoff run. It was awesome....Hakeem Nicks - IMV when healthy only a mild step below OBJ as a player - went str8 beast mode. A Fitzgeraldian like post season.
Check it out sometime.
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troll no?
But he has the guts to stand his ground instead of hurling insults
My thoughts exactly, he can't be this stupid. Can he?
Those Giants ran the ball like nobody's business, which today's Giants don't. Also, the defense they played back then would result in more flags than you find outside the U.N. if played today. The game has changed considerably since McConkey, Johnson, and the rest were on the team, which makes a WR like OBJ that much more valuable.
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Guy shares an "Opinion", and gets attacked personally. Well done boys.
It wouldn't be unprecedented for a team to let a top flight receiver go
Some guys here are insufferable.
If all posters were like you this would be a great forum
Maybe you, joepa and grizz can start your own forum? That would be entertaining
First of all, the Giants would never even consider it. Forget the football aspect of things, this is a kid that is a gold mine from a marketing standpoint. For that reason alone, it won't happen. That's not even factoring in the football part.
This is a young kid who has burst into the league as one of, if not the top playmaker in the NFL. There is no smoke and mirrors either, this is a guy with physical skills better than 99% of the league. The talent, work ethic and desire are all there. He's not a bad person and his teammates and coaches all seem to like and respect him. We aren't in the lockerroom so all we can go by is how he is percieved by his colleagues. Certain people would rather create a narrative based on media stories, but that's usually not a good idea.
You don't trade talents like Odell unless you are really far from winning and you need to rebuild. Even then, it would take a haul and a crapload of convincing for me to even consider it. Generational talent who hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential. Those guys don't get traded, specifically when you are SB contenders.
It's more than fair to call the thought of trading Odell ridiculous and that's being too kind.
don't forget the potential cap savings! oh and the "A" grade we get from ESPN on draft day with all our shiny new draft picks!
Ephram, Marshall, Ellis, Shepard, Ellison and Vereen make it an option and maybe even a redundancy.
...as if the championship wasn't largely driven by the guy who most resembled Odell on the other side of the ball.
Idiocracy people, Darwin is having a good laugh somewhere.
It wouldn't be unprecedented for a team to let a top flight receiver go
Some guys here are insufferable.
Somewhere along the line our society got the notion that all opinions are created equal. They are not.
Opposing viewpoints are not always equal, some are backed by logic and facts, some are not.
"It's just his opinion" shouldn't be an adequate defense for a horribly misguided statement.
don't underestimate BBI ... he could put up 2,000 yards this year and someone will still bitch about him skipping those voluntary workouts - unless he also wins Superbowl MVP.
then I think BBI would be ok with Beckham.
...I don't agree with your post but I kinda know where you're coming from.
I will say that if I could score two front-line Pro Bowl (or near Pro Bowl) talented O-linemen, I would be tempted.
But, even then, I wouldn't trade OBJ. You have to remember that -- aside from all the headaches he creates for defenses with the ball in his hands -- he creates nearly as many problems by just being on the field!
And with the receivers we now have on the team (including our brand spanking new TE from ol' Miss), this receiving corp is gonna force defenses into a question they may not be able to answer:
Who the heck do I cover?
But it all begins with OBJ!
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it's an opinion you don't share.
Ephram, Marshall, Ellis, Shepard, Ellison and Vereen make it an option and maybe even a redundancy.
frizz, while I appreciate your sentiment you will never win a debate on BBI. This place can be intolerable .
Then leave, maybe? Stop acting like a pouty little teenage girl and constantly complain about how bad other posters are or whatever. You're a grown damn adult, maybe have some thick skin or have the maturity to ignore other posts if you hate it so much.
Well that's the thing. The "Pro-OBJers" already have league-leading numbers, All-Pro 1st team appearances, and historical context on their side. The "Anti-OBJers" (why is this a thing?) just keep referencing instagram and a fear of possibility of future-misbehavior.
Odell is a great talent, maybe even a generational talent, but those saying that there aren't red flags with the guy are looking at him through blue colored glasses. Rams rookie game, Norman game, punching walls in GB, Boat Trip, Miserable playoff game, and I am missing a ton.
Now...Odell is also going to get PAID in 2 years, if not sooner. PAID to the point of tying up 1/12th of a salary cap in one non-qb player. It's scary. Also realize that if we DO give Odell a MEGA deal with multiple years it will be through the post-Eli era.
If a team called with 2 first rounders AND a good young cost controlled linebacker I would make the deal in a heartbeat. Jerry also knows how to draft WR early. His track record there is very very good.
At some point people really have to pick what they want out of a football player and stick to it. If a player is seen on the sideline that seems to be unaffected by a loss, he gets killed. When doesn't tolerate losing well, he gets "red flagged".
At some point people really have to pick what they want out of a football player and stick to it. If a player is seen on the sideline that seems to be unaffected by a loss, he gets killed. When doesn't tolerate losing well, he gets "red flagged".
But, but, but...the boat trip! And he had a bad game in the playoffs!!!
I'd love to know the shit all these holier than thou clowns were doing when they were 24. Beckham went on a boat trip on his day off a week before a game. Trade him for a couple of useless picks, he's a disaster!
Odell is a great talent, maybe even a generational talent, but those saying that there aren't red flags with the guy are looking at him through blue colored glasses. Rams rookie game, Norman game, punching walls in GB, Boat Trip, Miserable playoff game, and I am missing a ton.
Now...Odell is also going to get PAID in 2 years, if not sooner. PAID to the point of tying up 1/12th of a salary cap in one non-qb player. It's scary. Also realize that if we DO give Odell a MEGA deal with multiple years it will be through the post-Eli era.
If a team called with 2 first rounders AND a good young cost controlled linebacker I would make the deal in a heartbeat. Jerry also knows how to draft WR early. His track record there is very very good.
I guess you never want good players then. Just get rid of everyone who's all pro, God forbid they get their second contract.