I can overlook the Norman meltdown. But I remember vividly the pouting when he didn't get the ball and he showed up Eli. And that bothers me and it's a worry for next year and it's about the only way I can see this team not blowing away the league.
I remember too the disregard (both implicit and explicit) that he showed for his head coach. The bravado not sustained that showed up shirtless in Green Bay and a potential trip to the superbowl crapped on with dropped wide open passes and Eli didn't show him up cause Eli is about team.
I also remember the first time he played; lined up split left (the top of my tv screen), the first graceful move he put on the CB and he was so open a stunned Eli couldn't react, the second play and the cb almost fell down reached out and grabbed for elusive lightning & took a penalty - gladly. A Giant fan since the mid fifties, only LT, Tucker Fredrickson, and Shockey had first moments that compared, only they didn't compare.
This is a generational talent. Brilliant in every way, the best route runner, best hands, most explosive YAC's, and, all his preening aside, still a charmer.
Who thinks he is bigger than the game and bigger than NY. And probably is.
And suddenly there's Marshall, a returning Vereen, a more mature and accomplished Shepard, the wonderful potential of Ephram, King, Lewis, Powe and Randall. And solid tough guy Ellison who is a better receiver and overall player than he's given credit for.
Our kitchen scraps will be other teams entrees.
As great as he is I am not sure that group is much the less for not having him. And the game is still played with one ball...and is he going to pout when Marshall gets red zone attention and Ephram breaks one down the middle.
And it's relative anyway. He will demand (appropriately so) a kings's ransom next year and that means less talent on the roster.
It's bold, it's daring and maybe even suicidial. But I'd trade the brilliance and the promise if I could bring back a high (and easy on the cap) no.`1.
Which is why I'm in the forklift business and don't trade cars or football players.
For example, if you said Beckham for CLE two first rounders, a 2nd, and Joe Thomas along with who you'd target with those picks and why you might've got a better dialogue going.
Sounds like someone's been watching too much basketball. The NFL doesn't work this way. Everyone is killing themselves to find superstars, they're not trading them away for peanuts.
Sounds like someone's been watching too much basketball. The NFL doesn't work this way. Everyone is killing themselves to find superstars, they're not trading them away for peanuts.
Didn't say I would. But it's a lot more defendable than Beckham for some vague "easy on the cap high 1."
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That's a great fucking deal for the other team - since everyone has basically devalued the LB position the same way we have forever, and 'first round pick' is basically meaningless (unless they're both top 10 picks, which is impossible to guarantee).
Sounds like someone's been watching too much basketball. The NFL doesn't work this way. Everyone is killing themselves to find superstars, they're not trading them away for peanuts.
Didn't say I would. But it's a lot more defendable than Beckham for some vague "easy on the cap high 1."
I think he was responding to ThatLimerickGuy, not you
So the original post is meaningless at this point.
Try to pause for a second and separate not liking him from what is good for the financial and on-field success of the team. He's done one thing to hurt the team - he got suspended for a single game 3 years ago. It was quantifiably stupid, he paid his price. The NY Post quality sagas of the rest are beyond laughable and have had zero on-field impact. It's at worst annoying. It annoys Jerry Reese, it probably annoys Macadoo, it obviously annoys lots of fans.
But bottomline, no professional football organization is going to subtract talent over being annoying. The better target is anyone on the team who's "distracted" by what a teammate does off the field. Those are the mentally weak individuals who are excuse makers. Get those guys out of here.
The Giants are well positioned in the medium and longterm, financially and talent wise. If health holds up, when Eli Manning leaves this team, it will be stocked with talented veterans on both sides of the ball, including Odell Beckham. The team will free-up $25M in cap space and have the likely choice of handing the reigns to a talented back-up quarterback with a few years in the system, or the flexibility to survey the free agent market.
Do you really understand that Herschel Walker was considered a generational talent.?
Do you think "generational talent" might mean he's a diva and might have conflicts when there's significant other talent on the roster.?
Do you think the Mianmi trip and jumping tradition and not flying back with the team was about team...?
The Norman incident was he thinking diva or team?
Was the net incident about team or diva?
Was the bare shirt about diva or team?
Do you think he's going to sign cheaply next year or go for a king's ransom.? Do you understand that "generation talents" sometimes cost so much that muliples good players might be the way to go?
No one could have done more than Odell as the only option last year. Teams doubled him, they played deep cover two's and he still got his yards. But sometimes a brilliant one man's team doesn't fit in with talent, wants the ball, wants the attention, wants the big bucks and the records.
Is he a diva? I posted on the cowboy board that Zeke is a thug. They are in denial...event after event, charge after charge and he's just a teenager being a teenager. Two guys decked, two charges of D.V in Fla and Ohio, a history covered up in college, 100 miles and hour, and he pulls down a woman's blouse in public. And these events are going on while the League is investigating him.
I don't want to transpose directly to OBJ. Except to say that patterns start to add up and can be defining. There's a pattern of "me" before team with OBJ and it think it might be this year's narrative. And yes, I get it, there's no attempt here to call OBJ a thug, and he's never had a hint of anything illegal...though I"m sure that disclaimer won't work and someone's going to misquote .
And it works for him. He's an international star, he's Jeter's heir, 25 million from Nike and they're lining up, he's what Matt Harvey looked like just two years ago.
And again, no one's saying he's going to be disruptive, just that the potential or the possibility should be part of the equation.
No man, here is what you don't get....
You cannot come in here and just start a thread that says "I would trade Odell" without getting ripped a new asshole by most of the members here. You came one pubic hair short of starting an all out prison riot.
It wouldn't be unprecedented for a team to let a top flight receiver go
Some guys here are insufferable.
Yes, some guys here are definitely insufferable.
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if the Giants are better for trading a generational talent, would you do it?
No man, here is what you don't get....
You cannot come in here and just start a thread that says "I would trade Odell" without getting ripped a new asshole by most of the members here. You came one pubic hair short of starting an all out prison riot.
And not only that, but he's completely ignoring how the picks we get in return could end up being Robert Gallery and Charles Rodgers. Yeah, that's a risk worth taking...
Guess not...
I hope everyone is having a chill Saturday
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I understand the perspective,but lets try to win a SB WITH him, and Eli, first.
This board is visited by guys who are a walking encyclopedia when it comes to the NFL. It is also visited by less informed fans. Then there are fans like me, since 56, watch every game, love the Giants and the NFL who don t have the knowledge of the game of some here, or the knowledge of the league or the colleges.
I thought that s what this site was about, Giants fans discussing their team, sharing opinions. Criticize the point being made all you want, again I wouldn't trade Beckham.
But some take the opinions personally and respond as such. Most of the people who post here have no personal contact with the guys we root for and never will. Yet they take it as a personal affront when the players are portrayed in a negative manner Ok, disagree, but the personal attacks are so juvenile and at least for me detract greatly from the site.
Do you really understand that Herschel Walker was considered a generational talent.?
No, I didn't. I thought Walker had the potential to be a very good running back. Which he was. And yes, if a team offered me 3 firsts in 4 years, 3 2nds in 3 consecutive years and whatever else was in that trade for ODB, you would be a fool not to take it.
No. I don't think you know what "generational talent" means.
What tradition? He had a day off and it was New Years Day
Was the net incident about team or diva?
Was the bare shirt about diva or team?
All of this is just a big bowl of stupid and I wont play.
Probably the first cogent thought you've made....ever.
Yes he will cost a ton. But there is really nobody else who can do what he does as far as drawing doubles automatically and being able to be a TD threat on literally every play. He is fearless and his teammates seem to like him a ton.
Unintelligible
I don't want to transpose directly to OBJ. Except to say that patterns start to add up and can be defining. There's a pattern of "me" before team with OBJ and it think it might be this year's narrative. And yes, I get it, there's no attempt here to call OBJ a thug, and he's never had a hint of anything illegal...though I"m sure that disclaimer won't work and someone's going to misquote .
And it works for him. He's an international star, he's Jeter's heir, 25 million from Nike and they're lining up, he's what Matt Harvey looked like just two years ago.
And again, no one's saying he's going to be disruptive, just that the potential or the possibility should be part of the equation.
So you troll the Cowboys boards? Perhaps you should stay over there with them you geek.
Anyone who thinks you trade a young, top 5 WR is smoking meth.
Not being contrarian - why do you think he's not busting it or working hard?
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He's going to have to work hard and earn his opportunities. I want to see him bustin it like the great ones did. I want to see him succeed. I want to see him be the best on the field. Only one way that happens. Does he understand what his priority needs to be? We will see.
Not being contrarian - why do you think he's not busting it or working hard?
Because he doesn't and is just assuming based on OBJ's personality that seems to grate some fans the wrong way for some strange reason. Half these complainers hate dancing on the field and after TD celebrations. So they assume that he doesn't have his priority straight, especially since he's also turned into a trend setting media sensation in his first few years.
People make assumptions even in the face of what has always been reported about how hard OBJ works and how much he cares about winning. People will always place their own opinions over the facts. That's how it works these days.
At least you're consistent...
However...Parcells quit Dallas mainly because Jones re-signed TO while Bill was vacationing in the Carribean. Parcells so loathed Owens that he couldn't even stomach calling him by name. He just identified him by the player's #.
Situations aren't the same . TO was older. Beckham, though frequently a prick, has not turned it inward on his teammates and coaches-at least yet. I don't think it will go there . But it could .
Do you genuinely feel going to Miami caused his outlying performance? I tend to think it was the finger injury he was playing through, the bitter cold, at least one of the throws being out of reach, and that it was his first play-off game.
Those all seem more likely to disrupt play than where he was 6 days before. But to each his own I guess.
Personally never get too excited rooting for jerks. Michael Boley, Josh Brown, Christian Peters, guys like that. I've just never seen or heard OBJ do anything to put him in the range to not root for or trust.
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Odell and Eli to Miami for Jarvis Landry and Tannehill. That way we can retain Odell's babysitter the WR coach from LSU to serve in the same capacity with Landry.
At least you're consistent...
Thanks, I had to work to come up with as ridiculous an idea as the premise of this one.
Well, yes.
What everyone remembers is the playoff games, of course, but Plaxico was added to a team that was about to go on a string of playoff run years and Beckham was drafted at a time when the team was bad enough to have a top 10 pick.
57 Games, 244 receptions 3,681 yards, 33 touchdowns
43 Games, 288 receptions 4,122 yards, 35 touchdowns
We're not trading him. I will never understand why people waste time writing up these giant, unreadable walls of texts proposing something that's never going to happen.
I reject the Cowboys example. Trading away Hershel Walker was a monumentally classic blunder by Minnesota - it's hard to believe that any team would give the Giants what Minnesota gave the Cowboys for Walker -- but if somehow the Giants could get four starters (3 above average offensive line men and an above average power running back) and 3 number ones and 3 number twos and a number three draft picks then I might listen to such a trade...
And another thing: Everybody remembers the Herschel-Walker-to-Minnesota trade because it was crucial to building the Cowboy dynasty. Nobody remembers the Eric Dickerson-to-Indianapolis trade because the haul of draft picks the Rams got back didn't amount to much. The draft is a crapshoot, always, full stop.
I sometimes feel like fans want a player to be All-Pro, never hurt, always happy, attending every event, early to arrive and late to leave, and to come over on their off days to wash the car, talk football and coach their kids, then say thank you for the privilege.
These are very young, rich, somewhat pampered elite athletes. Immature guys act immature. A lot of them grow up as they, well, grow up. As a fan you take the bad with the good, as long as the bad isn't criminal.
Odell is a great talent, maybe even a generational talent, but those saying that there aren't red flags with the guy are looking at him through blue colored glasses. Rams rookie game, Norman game, punching walls in GB, Boat Trip, Miserable playoff game, and I am missing a ton.
Now...Odell is also going to get PAID in 2 years, if not sooner. PAID to the point of tying up 1/12th of a salary cap in one non-qb player. It's scary. Also realize that if we DO give Odell a MEGA deal with multiple years it will be through the post-Eli era.
If a team called with 2 first rounders AND a good young cost controlled linebacker I would make the deal in a heartbeat. Jerry also knows how to draft WR early. His track record there is very very good.
So you're citing a game where Beckham had a few drops as some sort of indictment or example of a troubled player? One that isn't worth the trouble? One bad fricking game? One????
The Rams rookie game where he took a gigantic turd all over the St. Louis defense? What went wrong that day other than the fisher led rams acting like complete trash? Of course you mentioned the over stated Norman game. The same Norman that proceeds to get flagged and beaten every time these two square off while Beckham doesn't do anything wrong.
And you're missing so many other examples? Name them.
None of the examples matter enough. He's a keeper unless his legs and game fall apart. Once again people over think shit like this. The guy is a amazing football player. He needs some maturation but not on the field. And his off the field stuff isn't nearly as troubling as some insist on believing.
Think about that for a second. You want the guy traded because of shit you read that had absolutely nothing to do with the game of football.
Crazy.
But he got into a fight with Norman. And he had a bad game once. Once. One bad game out of forty two or so! One bad game! The guy is amazing out there. He's Baryshnikov on the gridiron.
Jerry rice was the best ever because he worked harder than anyone and was as driven and perfect as an athlete can be on and off the clock. We want Beckham to be that great for that long. He's on his way but the game gets harder it doesn't get easier. Beckham will need to keep up.
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