Original synopsis:
| Daenerys has a surprise visitor; Jon faces a revolt; Tyrion draws up plans to conquer Westeros. |
Revised synopsis:
| Daenerys receives an unexpected visitor. Jon faces a revolt. Sam risks his career and life. Tyrion plans the conquest of Westeros. |
Quickly unpacking the official plot summary:
1)
Daenerys has a surprise visitor.
Previews have made it pretty clear that the surprise visitor is Melisandre.
2)
Jon faces a revolt.
Not much mystery here either. Yohn Royce objects to Jon treating with Dany, no matter how badly the North needs dragonglass (not to mention dragons). So Jon faces yet another mutiny, which serves as a backdrop for Baelish's ongoing efforts to manipulate Sansa.
3)
Sam risks his career and life.
Sam takes a short break from saving the world to cure Jorah's greyscale. Alternate theory:
Professor Slughorn Archmaester Ebrose catches him in the restricted stacks of the
Hogwarts Citadel library.
4)
Tyrion plans the conquest of Westeros
That's quite a team around the Painted Table, as the Greyjoys and Sands join Team Dany. But what is Tyrion's strategy? He knows better than anyone the dangers of a frontal assault down Blackwater Bay. Will he strike first in the West, as some keen-eyed observers have suggested?
Any other predictions? Does Euron bring Cersei her engagement gift yet? Does a reunion with Nymeria change Arya's path?
One additional thought on #3: The Sam/Jorah plot is either a bit of serendipity for the showrunners or an impressive piece of advance plotting by Martin - maybe a bit of both. Unlike the stupidly improbable chance meeting between Jorah and Tyrion, the groundwork for this hookup has been inthe works for years. Traly and Mormont both have excellent reasons for being at the Citadel, on "missions" from their respective commanders. There is already much to bind them: Sam knew Jorah's father well, he has experience with curable greyscale (Shireen), and they are both disgraced scions of noble houses - albeit from opposite ends of Westeros's west coast. They have also both seen wonders that most men would dismiss as myth, and are among the most faithful followers of two rulers destined to join forces.
Great thread start
Would still prefer to have book context and theories based on whatever few details are left from the books left out for non-readers but I know this is a losing battle at this point.
Couldn't be more excited!
I think Jorah is sacrificed in some way, not cured something they need to do with the wights or white walkers and he's half a stone man by then and decides to pursue the strategy "for the greater good". In an attempt to redeem himself (which is kind of his theme)
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does Sam have with curing greyscale? Wasn't Shireen cured way before Sam had met her?
Obviously, he didn't cure it; but unlike most people, he knows the disease can be stopped. And even if Stannis/Shireen/Davos never shared the full story of Shireen's infection and remission with their hosts at Castle Black, it doesn't take much to figure out the most likely repository of the relevant medical science.
I guess I don't see the point of curing or stopping the progression for Jorah, despite Daenerys orders to him. The Shireen to Samwell to Jorah connection makes sense, but I think it's a red herring.
He's a much more sympathetic character as a sacrifice.
And if the cure is at the Citadel, why wouldn't they share it? From what I remember a handful of kids had survived (disfigured like Shireen, but no adults that people no about). And I assumed it was Melisandre who cured Shireen not some Maester.
That's how Stannis told the story to Shireen, and it seems legit. I don't see why he would have airbrushed Melisandre out of it. Shireen was an infant. I don't think Stannis had even cast his lot with R'hllor at that point.
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...Every healer. Every apothecary. They stopped the disease and saved your life. Because you did not belong across the world with the bloody Stone Men. You are the Princess Shireen, of House Baratheon, and you are my daughter.
That's how Stannis told the story to Shireen, and it seems legit. I don't see why he would have airbrushed Melisandre out of it. Shireen was an infant. I don't think Stannis had even cast his lot with R'hllor at that point.
I assumed that was how they met, and pushed Stannis to believe in the lord of the light. They've never talked about it much in the books or the shows from what I recall, have they? (the relationship between Melisandre and Stannis and how is started) - so I assumed it was Shireen and greyscale.
yeah, that's what I mean when I say "sacrifice" He has a role, I just think having his greyscale cured while it may or may not happen, I think his story is better if he still has greyscale, is sentenced to death, but still is valiant in a way to help redeem himself and sure make it a hero's death - like maybe touching a wight dragon and transferring greyscale to it (or something like that).
Again, I assumed it was because of the greyscale with Selyse or Stannis who invited her, irrelevant, but my assumption was melisandre used fire or some magic to stop it's progression.
He looked like he was in a cell/quarantine at the Citadel. So maybe you're right, he won't get cleared until Samwell cures him otherwise how does he get back in the game.
I still think though he should be stuck with greyscale
Taking that will squeeze the dwindling Lannister resources even further plus huge PR move to serve as warning to other houses. Also drawing out the Lannister army from the Capital so that combo of the Dothraki horde and Dragons destroy it.
So, rather than having Daenerys find the castle abandoned (as she did in EP1) or meet resistance (as the site's strategic importance might suggest), she probably should have been welcomed as an ally - ideally by the Queen of Thorns herself. It seems that Olenna makes her way to D'stone anyway; so this is a case where the showrunners might have been wise to draw on the books. I guess they preferred the stark visuals of an empty castle.
It's the right move strategically and dramatically. Daenerys had her emotional homecoming last week. Now maybe it's Tyrion's turn. Tywin once vowed:
"There" being Dragonstone obviously.
Cure for greyscale is Dragonglass. Whew. Too many coronas.
So far, the Arya-Nymeria reunion is nothing but a little gift to book readers, and could heve been omitted. Hot Pie already took care of rerouting Arya, so we didn't need Nymeria to steer her north. Are the showrunners setting up a bigger role for Nym later?
Eunuch sex was sort of awkward, though they do make a cute couple.
Odd to see Sansa call Jon out in front of the Northern lords again, right after they seemed to agreed that wasn't a good idea. Well, she's in charge now. We'll see how it goes.
2 episodes in a row where the Citdel is the most interesting thing in westeros.
They were on the way to Dorne, right? So the Dornish army is still waiting at home, largely intact? Otherwise, that was some shitty exposition.
Personally, I wish they would rein it in a bit.
The chess pieces are the most interesting aspect of the show and I do like how we got more of that this episode. Foreshadowing the death of atleast 1 dragon was interesting, as was Jamie's chat with Tarly. I wonder if Sam and is father willl cross paths again...
So far, the Arya-Nymeria reunion is nothing but a little gift to book readers, and could heve been omitted. Hot Pie already took care of rerouting Arya, so we didn't need Nymeria to steer her north. Are the showrunners setting up a bigger role for Nym later?
Eunuch sex was sort of awkward, though they do make a cute couple.
Odd to see Sansa call Jon out in front of the Northern lords again, right after they seemed to agreed that wasn't a good idea. Well, she's in charge now. We'll see how it goes.
The naval battle was rushed in service of moving the plot along, IMO. Inevitable some things like that will be happening, with only 5 episodes left this season and 11 overall.
The sand snakes get wiped out (sadly, I loved those dirty girls. Poor Bronn will have to mourn his lost love). Tough night for the naughty lesbos of Westeros.
Theon survives to tell the tale due to his cowardice - remains an interesting character with a part to play.
Im happy Grey Worm got to spend the night with one of the hottest girls in the land.
And Arya's scene with Hot Pie was the highlight, IMO. You've baked some pies? One or two...lol
Jon meeting Daenerys will be fun to see...but was kinda hoping Bran would arrive at Winterfell to reveal a little more about Jons lineage first.
As some have shared previously, enjoying the show from here on requires lowering expectations with respect to time frame and story telling. We're in the home stretch now.
Yup he said as much when he pointed out he knows what Cersei does to those that oppose her. He's too smart not to play along for now, but he's definitely not committing to Team Lannister that easily
BTW, in the books Hot Pie moved on from there to a permanent gig at the Inn of the Kneeling Man, on the River Road. That's why some of us thought Arya might be detouring to Riverrun. Such are the hazards of overthinking a TV show.
She may be in his face ( largely around the idea that other people are treacherous and he needs to play the same game the same way) but there is respect and love and a deep family connection going both ways in that relationship.
She is not going to betray him because Littlefinger talks her into seeking personal advantage
Are we really going to act surprised now when he shows up and acts all "villainy"?
I thought the episode was solid if not a bit slow once again. I liked that Euron was a bit wild at the end and kind of backed up some of his claims of being the "greatest captain of the world". If it were even close to true he would have to be a badass fighter and he seemed to be.
There's going to be a bunch of battles coming up. They weren't that far apart in terms of the map obviously. It's really not that unrealistic within the context of the show IMO that he would take Yara and Theon and their feeble fleet compared to his.
Kudos to those who got Nymeria right as the "gift".
Perhaps word hasn't reached the Twins yet, or perhaps in Arya's timeline, Jon hasn't even taken Winterfell yet? (After all, Walder and Jaime don't mention it at the banquet.) But then, how does Hot Pie know - not only that Jon has defeated Ramsay, but also that he's already King in the North? The Crossroads is far south of the Twins. It doesn't make much sense that she catches up on news from the North by riding south.
The answer, I think, is basically narrative license.
She may be in his face ( largely around the idea that other people are treacherous and he needs to play the same game the same way) but there is respect and love and a deep family connection going both ways in that relationship.
She is not going to betray him because Littlefinger talks her into seeking personal advantage
Not sure about that. My guess is Bran and Arya arrive in Winterfell while Jon is south. If Bran tells Jon's story to Sansa coupled with Littlefinger's usual bullshit that could be enough to change the dynamic.
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For a 7 episode season I expect better. Euron got slashed and stabbed in the dick but he's fine? Just weird.
We suspended disbelief for invincible super-villain Ramsay Bolton. Maybe the showrunners are getting cocky and seeing how far they can push that crap. Or maybe they think we like it.
Personally, I wish they would rein it in a bit.
Yeah, the super villain archetype tends to annoy the shit out of me in shows such as 24, where a terrorist is aware of precisely when, where and how the police will escort Bauer's daughter and kidnap her. But with 24, at least you can explain it as the work of a hacker or something. How on earth did Euron know when and where to attack the ship, and precisely which ship to board? How'd he know of what's-her-face's value to Cersei in the first place?
I hope the show avoids going much further down the super villain rabbit hole.
Why would Yara be a gift for Cersei? She doesn't have a personal connection to her. The gift is almost certainly the woman that killed Cersei's daughter.
Hopefully we see the Hound in the next episode.
1. Euron is ridiculous. Great, now GoT has a campy mustache twirling victim like Negan of their own. Let me guess, he planted a tracking device on Yara's car? I hate convenient plot points. And he beats all the Sand Sisters and Yara? Stop. And Theon is mowing guys down all over until Euron calls him little Theon and he reverts to Reek?
2. Cersei making her pitch to the southern lords. Does anyone remember, oh, Cersei blowing up the Sept of Baelor and a large section of the city while murdering hundreds of citizens including two of the three most important members of House Tyrell? Tarly makes a passing reference, but c'mon. There is nothing that Cersei could offer.
3. Maester Frankenstein's solution is a giant crossbow? Eye roll.
B. Because of her time in Bravos at the House of Black and White "losing herself" can Arya no longer connect with the wolf
C. Similar to B, did Nymeria just not recognize Arya because of her changes
A is the one that makes the most sense, only I thought Dire Wolves were nearly extinct and the wolf got close to Arya then left and it's pack followed. So clearly there was some connection.
B and C don't make sense to me since Arya from my recollection denounced the many faced gods and rejected "becoming no one" and said "I'm Arya Stark from Winterfell" and while she was blind I thought I remember her seeing through Nymeria but might be confusing show and book.
but as Nymeria turned left and wasn't interested in going to Winterfell I thought I heard Arya say "oh, it wasn't you"
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Arya was just recognizing that Nymeria was not going to just follow her. She recognized Arya (obviously as Arya was not the wolves' dinner) but Nymeria is a wild wolf, not a companion. I am sure the wolves will help her when she needs it most.
but as Nymeria turned left and wasn't interested in going to Winterfell I thought I heard Arya say "oh, it wasn't you"
She said "That's not you."
In other words, Arya and Nymeria recognized each other, but Arya realized Nymeria has her own pack to lead and isn't going to be Arya's pet anymore
B. Because of her time in Bravos at the House of Black and White "losing herself" can Arya no longer connect with the wolf
C. Similar to B, did Nymeria just not recognize Arya because of her changes
A is the one that makes the most sense, only I thought Dire Wolves were nearly extinct and the wolf got close to Arya then left and it's pack followed. So clearly there was some connection.
B and C don't make sense to me since Arya from my recollection denounced the many faced gods and rejected "becoming no one" and said "I'm Arya Stark from Winterfell" and while she was blind I thought I remember her seeing through Nymeria but might be confusing show and book.
What if Arya is not really Arya?
Either way, it may be symbolic foreshadowing, that Arya is no longer part of the "wolf pack" or a true Stark. She chose her Lone-wolf/assassin path seasons ago, and now her own Direwolf has turned its back on her.
Arya decided to turn to Winterfell after meeting with Hotpie, but after this Nymeria encounter, I wonder if the next time we see her she will be back in Kingslanding instead.
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A. Was that dire wolf actually not Nymeria
B. Because of her time in Bravos at the House of Black and White "losing herself" can Arya no longer connect with the wolf
C. Similar to B, did Nymeria just not recognize Arya because of her changes
A is the one that makes the most sense, only I thought Dire Wolves were nearly extinct and the wolf got close to Arya then left and it's pack followed. So clearly there was some connection.
B and C don't make sense to me since Arya from my recollection denounced the many faced gods and rejected "becoming no one" and said "I'm Arya Stark from Winterfell" and while she was blind I thought I remember her seeing through Nymeria but might be confusing show and book.
What if Arya is not really Arya?
Either way, it may be symbolic foreshadowing, that Arya is no longer part of the "wolf pack" or a true Stark. She chose her Lone-wolf/assassin path seasons ago, and now her own Direwolf has turned its back on her.
Arya decided to turn to Winterfell after meeting with Hotpie, but after this Nymeria encounter, I wonder if the next time we see her she will be back in Kingslanding instead.
Why? She literally just told the wolf that she was "finally" going home.
Now I wonder if Bron comes back into the picture somehow to rescue his crush Tyene Sand.
An does that pit a future battle between him and the Lannister army , specifically Jamie Lannister.
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In comment 13537205 pjcas18 said:
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A. Was that dire wolf actually not Nymeria
B. Because of her time in Bravos at the House of Black and White "losing herself" can Arya no longer connect with the wolf
C. Similar to B, did Nymeria just not recognize Arya because of her changes
A is the one that makes the most sense, only I thought Dire Wolves were nearly extinct and the wolf got close to Arya then left and it's pack followed. So clearly there was some connection.
B and C don't make sense to me since Arya from my recollection denounced the many faced gods and rejected "becoming no one" and said "I'm Arya Stark from Winterfell" and while she was blind I thought I remember her seeing through Nymeria but might be confusing show and book.
What if Arya is not really Arya?
Either way, it may be symbolic foreshadowing, that Arya is no longer part of the "wolf pack" or a true Stark. She chose her Lone-wolf/assassin path seasons ago, and now her own Direwolf has turned its back on her.
Arya decided to turn to Winterfell after meeting with Hotpie, but after this Nymeria encounter, I wonder if the next time we see her she will be back in Kingslanding instead.
Why? She literally just told the wolf that she was "finally" going home.
Something tells me we haven't seen the last of Nymeria the dire wolf. I could see Arya (who travels alone) being caught in a tough situation and her protector comes to save the day.
Also Nymeria looks to be 3 times the size of Ghost
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"You touch my sister, and I'll kill you, man!"
As already mentioned, the anti-dragon crossbow and Hot Pie being way ahead of Arya on events in the north.
And if Nymeria's reappearance doesn't go anywhere, that was a pretty meaningless scene.
And the R-rated Pirates of the Caribbean Part 6 ending. Euron's "entrance" was ridiculous.
Dinklage's acting seemed mechanical in the Dragonstone war room. He seemed bored to me.
B. Because of her time in Bravos at the House of Black and White "losing herself" can Arya no longer connect with the wolf
C. Similar to B, did Nymeria just not recognize Arya because of her changes
A is the one that makes the most sense, only I thought Dire Wolves were nearly extinct and the wolf got close to Arya then left and it's pack followed. So clearly there was some connection.
B and C don't make sense to me since Arya from my recollection denounced the many faced gods and rejected "becoming no one" and said "I'm Arya Stark from Winterfell" and while she was blind I thought I remember her seeing through Nymeria but might be confusing show and book.
I didn't get that she didn't recognize her at all. It was definitely Nymeria and the only reason she didn't rip her to shreds is because of their one time connection. I just took at as she had her own life now. She couldn't go with her and Arya respected it.
Please don't link an IGN article to make a point. They praise everything, good and bad. I stopped taking them seriously years ago when they just give every AAA title a 9 or higher.
I'm sure plenty of people enjoyed the episode but it was nothing more than solid for me and the more I think about it the more I realized how many times I rolled my eyes.
B. Because of her time in Bravos at the House of Black and White "losing herself" can Arya no longer connect with the wolf
C. Similar to B, did Nymeria just not recognize Arya because of her changes
I thought, yes its her wolf - else she would have gotten ripped to shreds. I took it to mean she has changed and the wolf realized it. The wolf can see Ayra no longer needs her, so she wanders off with her pack.
A is the one that makes the most sense, only I thought Dire Wolves were nearly extinct and the wolf got close to Arya then left and it's pack followed. So clearly there was some connection.
B and C don't make sense to me since Arya from my recollection denounced the many faced gods and rejected "becoming no one" and said "I'm Arya Stark from Winterfell" and while she was blind I thought I remember her seeing through Nymeria but might be confusing show and book.
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Universally praised across the internet by every major review outlet. Looks like the consensus is that it's a stronger episode than episode 1 as well. Link - ( New Window )
Please don't link an IGN article to make a point. They praise everything, good and bad. I stopped taking them seriously years ago when they just give every AAA title a 9 or higher.
I'm sure plenty of people enjoyed the episode but it was nothing more than solid for me and the more I think about it the more I realized how many times I rolled my eyes.
I linked it because it's more detailed than some I've read and it brought some good points up. They absolutely do not praise everything. They rarely will give a perfect score. Ive read 10 other reviews that echo the same sentiments. I'd be happy to post those for you instead.
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Aside from the the time and news improbability between Arya and Hotpie, I don't really believe that an invading queen plotting lots of strategy, trying to figure out who would support and who would oppose, would only just find out who the King of the North was. Especially, since her close advisors already knew.
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A. Was that dire wolf actually not Nymeria
B. Because of her time in Bravos at the House of Black and White "losing herself" can Arya no longer connect with the wolf
C. Similar to B, did Nymeria just not recognize Arya because of her changes
A is the one that makes the most sense, only I thought Dire Wolves were nearly extinct and the wolf got close to Arya then left and it's pack followed. So clearly there was some connection.
B and C don't make sense to me since Arya from my recollection denounced the many faced gods and rejected "becoming no one" and said "I'm Arya Stark from Winterfell" and while she was blind I thought I remember her seeing through Nymeria but might be confusing show and book.
I didn't get that she didn't recognize her at all. It was definitely Nymeria and the only reason she didn't rip her to shreds is because of their one time connection. I just took at as she had her own life now. She couldn't go with her and Arya respected it.
It's not A, B, or C. Arya recognizes her, and the wolf recognizes Arya. Arya's comment on 'that's not you' was definitely intended to show that Arya recognizes that Nymeria does her own thing now. The show runners said as much if you watch the 'behind the episode' bit (it followed the show on the HBO Go viewing).
Also, the reveal that dragons are flesh and blood -- and therefore can be injured -- seemed rather lame. Um, no kidding. I was hoping it would be a reveal of some mythical horn that could control the dragons, and instead it's a stupid crossbow.
Euron finding Yara would have been a bit more believable if they had included a small scene where he had some scouts that were looking for her ships, and reported that back to him.
And is it just me or does Euron seem like he's doing an impression of Michael Shannon from Man of Steel?
When the wolves initially surrounded Arya and the horse I thought they were regular wolves, wasn't even sure it was Nymeria or a dire wolf at all until they zoomed in on her and she was obviously larger than the other wolves, but I thought still smaller than ghost and Summer (in my head at least).
and not to be a book spoiler person because I get confused now sometimes between the book and shows, but in the books we knew Nymeria was running with a pack of wolves (regular wolves)
and like others (maybe), I've always tried to see some pattern or connection between the Starks, their wolves, and life/death of the wolf and owner. None is obvious to me.
Same here. Makes sense. I don't watch any of the after show stuff or read any blogs, I probably should.
When I saw Nymeria, I literally was in awe at how big she had gotten.
I really think Arya meeting Nymeria was a nice little Easter egg and tied off a loose end...I'm not sure if we should be reading too much more into it, and I'm doubtful Nymeria returns
I really think Arya meeting Nymeria was a nice little Easter egg and tied off a loose end...I'm not sure if we should be reading too much more into it, and I'm doubtful Nymeria returns
That's how I felt. It would have been annoying if the show ended without her ever seeing her again. This kind of brought closure to that although who knows? Maybe Nymeria does play a part later? I doubt it.
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I'm being somewhat facetious, but IGN's quality has gone completely downhill. They summarize an episode well enough but also leave out a ton just to prove a specific point. Reading their Walking Dead reviews is painful.
Loved Arya's scenes in this episode. The change on her face once Hot Pie tells her that the Starks control Winterfell again was just wonderful. Before that I was worried she was too far gone. The Nymeria reunion was great, I'm sure we'll see her again.
Jon putting Littlefinger in his place was nice. But you just know he's got something else up his sleeve.
Solid episode.
I'd actually say many on BBI are more knowledgeable about GoT than many of these writers. A lot of that is because they were book readers and some of the reviewers weren't, but also because many here re-watch episodes as well. Writers also can have an agenda, either good or bad.
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So "every AAA title gets a 9.0 or better" is clearly false.
I'm being somewhat facetious, but IGN's quality has gone completely downhill. They summarize an episode well enough but also leave out a ton just to prove a specific point. Reading their Walking Dead reviews is painful.
IGN kills walking dead. It will rarely get more than a 7ish score. Also, each show has its own reviewer so they are all different. Most people like the GOT writer. Like I said, most outlets will just recap but IGN places an actual score to it which is nice which is why I linked it. Score or not, he brought up a lot of details which could add to the discussion here.
Loved Arya's scenes in this episode. The change on her face once Hot Pie tells her that the Starks control Winterfell again was just wonderful. Before that I was worried she was too far gone. The Nymeria reunion was great, I'm sure we'll see her again.
Jon putting Littlefinger in his place was nice. But you just know he's got something else up his sleeve.
Solid episode.
+1. Also, loved Theon turning back into Reek. That was very realistic to me. What he went through doesn't just "go away". I think it's setting him up to be a hero later and I can't wait personally.
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Honestly, I think it's good to read recaps from people that do it for a living. Why? They are looking for every detail, likely watch the episode multiple times, and are even taking notes. They'll often see things the casual viewer might miss. Link - ( New Window )
I'd actually say many on BBI are more knowledgeable about GoT than many of these writers. A lot of that is because they were book readers and some of the reviewers weren't, but also because many here re-watch episodes as well. Writers also can have an agenda, either good or bad.
Most of the writers I've come across are also book readers...
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I think your comment was meant for PJ. I agree with you though.
Same here. Makes sense. I don't watch any of the after show stuff or read any blogs, I probably should.
It was, I should have replied to PJ's post.
+1,000. Highlight of the episode.
I could do without the entire Greyworm personal life storyline. I thought the Jon taking crap scene was way too long and unnecessary especially after last week.
Was that not Yara hanging from the ship at the end? I was a bit unclear on that. What value does she have a hostage?
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I think there may have been more to that sequence there than him just being a coward/Reek. Realizing he'd have little chance to get to Yara in time and also defeat Euron, jumping overboard likely saves his life and gives him time to mobilize more forces against Euron to save Yara.
Was that not Yara hanging from the ship at the end? I was a bit unclear on that. What value does she have a hostage?
No that was the sister that he was choking around the neck with the whip.
I could do without the entire Greyworm personal life storyline. I thought the Jon taking crap scene was way too long and unnecessary especially after last week.
Yeah I agree about Greyworm. Just way too much time spent there. Those two have always been a drag. Good for him getting Missandei, but just have her take her clothes off and we can assume the rest. Didn't need the full details for 5 minutes after that.
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I think that was the two dead sand snakes.
I think there may have been more to that sequence there than him just being a coward/Reek. Realizing he'd have little chance to get to Yara in time and also defeat Euron, jumping overboard likely saves his life and gives him time to mobilize more forces against Euron to save Yara.
Was that not Yara hanging from the ship at the end? I was a bit unclear on that. What value does she have a hostage?
I think that too , almost sacrifice for the greater good. Could be what puts him over the top to become a stronger warrior. I assume it will be Theon helping Jon Stark beat Euron
-Davos is going to be pretty pissed off when he shows up to Dragonstone to find Mellisadre chilling in her old pad. Also is Greyworm in Shireen's old room?
-It makes since that Hotpie would know more about Westeros than Arya. Arya has just returned and apparently has had blinders on until she finished dealing with the Freys. Meanwhile Hotpie is a very "gossipy" person and works at the center for all Westerosi travel.
-I'm probably looking too mush into the Direwolf/Stark symbolism with Nymeria, but it seemed to me Arya's wolf turning away tells alot about Arya's inner identity as a Stark. We will see soon enough, if she does continue to Winterfell I'm probably wrong. It would be great to see Ned's 3 remaining children reunite. But I still have this feeling that Nymeria's rejection will make Arya once again, change course back to Kings Landing.
-The girl who plays Missandie is still gorgeous.
-On a simmilar note, I'm gald the hotter one of the Sand Snakes survived, but why wouldn't they kill her? Yara and Ellyria are valuable hostages - Tyene, no so much.
-I know Theon jumped overboard because of fear, but it was also his smartest move. Now he actually has a better chance of saving his sister, with Dany's help, then if he charged and was slaughtered there on the ship.
I think given what happened to Septa Unella, we could be in for some ugly scenes. Cercei has zombie Mountain, Qyburn, and a bunch of savage pirates at her disposal in choosing a fate for the people responsible for Myracella's death. Will Cercei show restraint and hold the two of them safely hostage in exchange for Dorne's non-participation? Or will she forgo the better overall strategy and give in to her baser instincts? The latter is more consistent with Cercei's character to date. It's no coincidence that Ellaria Sand murdered Cercei's only daughter and will be there to witness her last remaining daughter's fate.
In other words, unless Qyburn plans a saturation strike, his plan is utterly stupid. Which means - Qyburn being Qyburn - it will almost certainly work.
Thought the same thing. Gregworm is going down.
The Euron situation with knowing which ship is Yaras is pretty simple, Yaras ship is different as is all other ships in her fleet. Him being able to spot the Captain of the Iron Fleets ship is no shock. I do not know if they will delve into it in the show but Euron has hostage many wizards, warlocks etc as well as various "magical" relics. He has way more tricks up his sleeve then has been seen. I guess they just mashed up Eurons chacter and his brother Victarion and put them into one. Victarion is more the captain of the Iron Fleet and Warrior (jumping from ship to ship in full plate weilding axe's) where Euron is more the sit back and scheme/call the shots type.
The Nymeria scene to me was Arya recgonizing that Nymeria is now Wild with a family or pack of her own. Her connection to the direwolf is dim at this point. Maybe it's foreshadowing to when she finally meets her family at Winterfel... her differing opinions/way of life may lead her back to being the lone wolf that she is.
Really not digging Sansa at all, never have and quite frankly never will. Too loud a mouth on a girl who has literally done nothing.
Where the hell is Bran? He was at the wall and not even a Raven gets sent to Winterfel letting Jon know his brother is there? Okay no Maester up there to send a bird, so send a man on a horse.
Did Sansa reveal the whole history? I'd be surprised if Jon Snow didn't hang Littlefinger if he knew he "sold" her to the Bolton's.
I don't remember the two (Jon Snow and Baelish) ever really interacting with each other until season 6 and the battle of the bastards and littlefinger is right, without him, Jon Snow likely loses.
the comment about loving Sansa like he did Catelyn, I didn't take to mean romantically, is that how littlefinger meant it and Jon took it?
Is that forced hate to set up plot or does Jon likely know how evil Littlefinger is and if he does, why is he roaming around free to continue to manipulate/play the game?
In Martin's version, he marries a plump, dimwitted noblewoman and retires to an estate in the Reach.
Any guesses?
Is Riverrun back to edmure's control now that the freys are gone?
Did Sansa reveal the whole history? I'd be surprised if Jon Snow didn't hang Littlefinger if he knew he "sold" her to the Bolton's.
I don't remember the two (Jon Snow and Baelish) ever really interacting with each other until season 6 and the battle of the bastards and littlefinger is right, without him, Jon Snow likely loses.
the comment about loving Sansa like he did Catelyn, I didn't take to mean romantically, is that how littlefinger meant it and Jon took it?
Is that forced hate to set up plot or does Jon likely know how evil Littlefinger is and if he does, why is he roaming around free to continue to manipulate/play the game?
If Jon knew the role Littlefinger played in Ned's death, Littlefinger would've been beheaded already.
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His time on GOT is over
Thought the same thing. Gregworm is going down.
pun intended?
Good thinking on that one
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all know Littlefinger is conniving and set up Ned's death pretty much, but how does Jon Snow know and what makes him hate littlefinger so much?
Did Sansa reveal the whole history? I'd be surprised if Jon Snow didn't hang Littlefinger if he knew he "sold" her to the Bolton's.
I don't remember the two (Jon Snow and Baelish) ever really interacting with each other until season 6 and the battle of the bastards and littlefinger is right, without him, Jon Snow likely loses.
the comment about loving Sansa like he did Catelyn, I didn't take to mean romantically, is that how littlefinger meant it and Jon took it?
Is that forced hate to set up plot or does Jon likely know how evil Littlefinger is and if he does, why is he roaming around free to continue to manipulate/play the game?
If Jon knew the role Littlefinger played in Ned's death, Littlefinger would've been beheaded already.
Agree, so why does he hate him so much, after littlefinger literally saved the north.
Weird development for Westeros's former #1 schemer.
I did like the rest, overall.
Agree, so why does he hate him so much, after littlefinger literally saved the north.
The Knights of the Vale saved the North. I suspect that is how Jon sees it. Jon is probably grateful to Royce.
Weird development for Westeros's former #1 schemer.
He has nothing to do now that he has the Vale. Just in the back of the room smirking all the time
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Agree, so why does he hate him so much, after littlefinger literally saved the north.
The Knights of the Vale saved the North. I suspect that is how Jon sees it. Jon is probably grateful to Royce.
technically Robin Arryn then right?, but we all know it was Littlefinger who got the raven from Sansa and brought the troops, even if he wasn't in the actual battle he made it happen, I doubt Jon Snow looks beyond that. Though maybe so.
Weird development for Westeros's former #1 schemer.
If there were more than ~10 episodes left, it would lead you to think he has a longer scheme in play. He knows Jon Snow doesn't like/trust him and needs to either build that trust or remove Jon so he can try to manipulate Sansa. And in the meantime, staying in the North is probably the smart play with Dany-Cersei going head-to-head.
Of course, Littlefinger also likely knew nothing of the Wights
I thought it was the opposite, kind of a "...this is all working out perfectly..."
Jon leaves to go and meet Dany personally, he's got Sansa and Winterfell to himself (pretty much) and he's going to make his move.
Why would Jon say "you don't belong down here" at Ned's tomb if he didn't know anything about Littlefinger setting up Ned?
Anyway, minor point that I'm sure I'm missing, it just seems like Jon should know more about how evil Littlefinger is and his history to hate him this much.
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when Jon broke the news of Dany, Tyrion and the dragons arriving at Dragonstone? It was an "oh fuck, there goes my plans" sort of half smile.
I thought it was the opposite, kind of a "...this is all working out perfectly..."
Jon leaves to go and meet Dany personally, he's got Sansa and Winterfell to himself (pretty much) and he's going to make his move.
Why would Jon say "you don't belong down here" at Ned's tomb if he didn't know anything about Littlefinger setting up Ned?
Anyway, minor point that I'm sure I'm missing, it just seems like Jon should know more about how evil Littlefinger is and his history to hate him this much.
Only Starks traditionally enter the tombs? Or maybe he knows Littlefinger's history with Cat?
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In comment 13537401 bceagle05 said:
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when Jon broke the news of Dany, Tyrion and the dragons arriving at Dragonstone? It was an "oh fuck, there goes my plans" sort of half smile.
I thought it was the opposite, kind of a "...this is all working out perfectly..."
Jon leaves to go and meet Dany personally, he's got Sansa and Winterfell to himself (pretty much) and he's going to make his move.
Why would Jon say "you don't belong down here" at Ned's tomb if he didn't know anything about Littlefinger setting up Ned?
Anyway, minor point that I'm sure I'm missing, it just seems like Jon should know more about how evil Littlefinger is and his history to hate him this much.
Only Starks traditionally enter the tombs? Or maybe he knows Littlefinger's history with Cat?
King Robert entered the crypt. So maybe you need to be accompanied or maybe it was just Jon hating on Tommy Carcetti.
As for Edmure, I think he's at Casterly Rock with his wife and son. That was Jaime's promise as part of Edmure's surrender, and there's no reason to think he broke it.
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when Jon broke the news of Dany, Tyrion and the dragons arriving at Dragonstone? It was an "oh fuck, there goes my plans" sort of half smile.
I thought it was the opposite, kind of a "...this is all working out perfectly..."
Jon leaves to go and meet Dany personally, he's got Sansa and Winterfell to himself (pretty much) and he's going to make his move.
Why would Jon say "you don't belong down here" at Ned's tomb if he didn't know anything about Littlefinger setting up Ned?
Anyway, minor point that I'm sure I'm missing, it just seems like Jon should know more about how evil Littlefinger is and his history to hate him this much.
I have a feeling the Sana's interaction with Jon last week will play into Jon's way of dealing with littlefinger. My prediction is Jon allows Littlefinger to help him but then betrays him just like how he betrayed Ned. it will be glorious
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In comment 13537404 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 13537401 bceagle05 said:
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when Jon broke the news of Dany, Tyrion and the dragons arriving at Dragonstone? It was an "oh fuck, there goes my plans" sort of half smile.
I thought it was the opposite, kind of a "...this is all working out perfectly..."
Jon leaves to go and meet Dany personally, he's got Sansa and Winterfell to himself (pretty much) and he's going to make his move.
Why would Jon say "you don't belong down here" at Ned's tomb if he didn't know anything about Littlefinger setting up Ned?
Anyway, minor point that I'm sure I'm missing, it just seems like Jon should know more about how evil Littlefinger is and his history to hate him this much.
Only Starks traditionally enter the tombs? Or maybe he knows Littlefinger's history with Cat?
King Robert entered the crypt. So maybe you need to be accompanied or maybe it was just Jon hating on Tommy Carcetti.
well everyone does love to hate the mayor, only slightly less than the governor, and he was both.
"I'm leaving you in charge while I'm gone..."
"K Bye..."
Weird development for Westeros's former #1 schemer.
I don't think Littlefinger accounted for Danaerys in his schemes (which were started before she had any power). His plan seems to be:
-get titles and power by kissing Lannister assses, leading him to Harrenhall and a marriage to Lysa (his co-plotter).
-Then team with Tyrells kill Joffrey and creat chaos amongst the Lannisters.
-Then sell off Sansa to the Boltons, giving him a foothold in the North.
-Then use the army of the Vale to take Winterfell from either the Boltons or Stannis.
-He would of then married Sansa for himself and have the full power of the North and Vale behind him, with an alliance to the Tyrells.
But Jon and Danaerys effectivly put a block to this scheme. He made alot of faces when Jon and Royce were arguing about Danaerys. I think Littlefinger is still coming up with a new plan.
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In comment 13537346 spike said:
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His time on GOT is over
Thought the same thing. Gregworm is going down.
pun intended?
Lol. Nice.
Really not digging Sansa at all, never have and quite frankly never will. Too loud a mouth on a girl who has literally done nothing.
Done nothing?? Jon would be dead and the North still controlled by Ramsey if not for her moves. She gets on my nerves here and there, but she's grown and learned a lot.
Hmm, I can think of a certain character, who Arya knows well and is also heading North, that was present when Littlefinger betrayed Ned and held that dagger up to his throat.
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At some point, she might find out how Littlefinger double-crossed Ned. That will jump him to the top of the list pretty quickly.
Hmm, I can think of a certain character, who Arya knows well and is also heading North, that was present when Littlefinger betrayed Ned and held that dagger up to his throat.
It would be great if Arya runs into The Hound and the rest of the Brotherhood. Throw in Gendry, who is rumored to be making an appearance somewhere.
They're doing Cersei a service, because I still favor her way more than I should at this point, but there are just so many characters I don't give a shit about.
I lol'd, hard.
I think this is off. They pretty clearly showed Sansa and Brienne cornering him in a horse stall when she first got back. She threatened to kill him for selling her off and made it clear to Briemne later he might be useful to keep around. Clearly, that came to fruition already once. She can't tell Jon about it. He'll killl him.
Its easily my biggest complaint of the show. Not only is he one of the best actors on the show who now gets absolutely no lines anymore, but we are made to think he's now a fool.
I agree with this - fitting with the Cersei as Sansa's mentor theme, Sansa knows Littlefinger can be valuable if used properly. There's no value in "outing" him to Jon now, she knows Jon would quickly kill him. Better to have leverage over him to be used when needed.
Only Starks traditionally enter the tombs? Or maybe he knows Littlefinger's history with Cat?
Jon's pretty noble and loyal to the family, but he hated Cat and she *really* hated him. I can see him getting angry enough to kill over Sansa, but not sure he would kill a man for being in love with Cat. Not really sure anything actually happened with him and Cat that would cause anyone to kill him. He loved her and she didn't love him back. I never would have made past 7th grade if that was a criterion.
Varia: Not sure why Jaime could meet up with Greyworm. I suppose he could rush to Castlery Rock if they had enough advance notice, but for now, he's not in position to defend it. Much less so if they can still get the siege come to pass.
I don't buy Yara as a hostage for Cercei. Lieutenant's to the queen are likely not high enough on the chain for her to notice. I can't think why she would be astute enough about world politics to care about succession and throne claims in the Iron Islands even know Yara's name, much less place much value on her. Yeah, Indira Varma is the true hostage. I rather think that Yara is kept alive specifically to be Euron's prisoner to toy with. Nice, rival, stole his best ships, and there is a blood hatred between them. It's been talked about how Euron will be a villain to rival any that there have been in the show. A villain needs a pet to torture and I think that Yara will play Reek to Euron's Ramsey. Who knows, if she gets out of it alive, that might give her better perspective on how to view Theon's cowardice. At the least, it gives them parallel stories.
He used to be one of the biggest reasons I tuned in every week in the early seasons. And that was because he was uniquely funny, very sharp, loathed "the game," didn't kiss anybody's ass, and still managed to survive (and even thrive) in Westeros.
It seems like all of those qualities have been hiding in a drawer since he met Daenerys. Now he's basically a humorless yes-man who contributes fairly conventional strategic ideas. And he seems to have moved on quite well from killing his father and the only true love he may have ever had. I figured that the events of that dark final night in King's Landing would have had profound effects on his character development, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
He used to be one of the biggest reasons I tuned in every week in the early seasons. And that was because he was uniquely funny, very sharp, loathed "the game," didn't kiss anybody's ass, and still managed to survive (and even thrive) in Westeros.
It seems like all of those qualities have been hiding in a drawer since he met Daenerys. Now he's basically a humorless yes-man who contributes fairly conventional strategic ideas. And he seems to have moved on quite well from killing his father and the only true love he may have ever had. I figured that the events of that dark final night in King's Landing would have had profound effects on his character development, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
Daenerys is an overbearing character who constantly promises to kill people if they displease her. Tough to have interesting conversations with such a character if you're her sworn, direct report.
Also, the Daenerys actress just sucks the oxygen out of the room, in a bad way, to me.
It again makes me think of the direwolves. Sansa hasn't truley been a "Stark" since Lady was killed in season 1. Bran's wolf, Summer, died just as he officially became the 3-eyed raven. And now Nymeria turned away from Arya who still in some ways "no-one".
The only Stark who still acts like a Stark, is the one who still, presumably has his direwolf by his side - Jon.
I think Littlefinger is doing what he does. There is no obvious move to make, so he's biding his time. Now that Jon is gone he will begin scheming anew. Maybe get Sansa to impulsively react foolishly in order to turn the Lords against her.
I thought the worst part of the episode was Sansa arguing until Jon told her she would be in charge, then she was cool.
Probably one of the weakest episodes IMO, but still enjoyed it.
It again makes me think of the direwolves. Sansa hasn't truley been a "Stark" since Lady was killed in season 1. Bran's wolf, Summer, died just as he officially became the 3-eyed raven. And now Nymeria turned away from Arya who still in some ways "no-one".
The only Stark who still acts like a Stark, is the one who still, presumably has his direwolf by his side - Jon.
Agree on all of this.
What Arya said to her wolf in this last episode. "It's not you." or whatever, is how her wolf reacted to Arya.
So who eats it? I feel like it is one of the girls because the boys seem more necessary to the White Walkers story. Though I could see Bran doing his role in the story and then dying.
So who eats it? I feel like it is one of the girls because the boys seem more necessary to the White Walkers story. Though I could see Bran doing his role in the story and then dying.
Same. I think one of the Stark sisters and I also think it will be because of or have a lot to do with the other.
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are reunited. This story allows for no such sentimentality.
So who eats it? I feel like it is one of the girls because the boys seem more necessary to the White Walkers story. Though I could see Bran doing his role in the story and then dying.
Same. I think one of the Stark sisters and I also think it will be because of or have a lot to do with the other.
In general, figure out which character you like the most and then put an X through his or her picture.
So who eats it? I feel like it is one of the girls because the boys seem more necessary to the White Walkers story. Though I could see Bran doing his role in the story and then dying.
Jon already died once, killing him again is just piling on. Bran has no use of his legs, that was cruel enough.
I think Arya dies, Nymeria leaving maybe signified Arya is a lone wolf, and has no pack.
If she does die she took out a lot of her list. I think she could die at the hands of the many face gods, a death that was not hers to take must be met with another death - wasn't that it? something like that from the house of black and white?
He used to be one of the biggest reasons I tuned in every week in the early seasons. And that was because he was uniquely funny, very sharp, loathed "the game," didn't kiss anybody's ass, and still managed to survive (and even thrive) in Westeros.
His biggest contribution over the past couple years was telling jokes to Grey Worm. He's also been neutered but he will come on strong since that's where the story is going.
It seems like all of those qualities have been hiding in a drawer since he met Daenerys. Now he's basically a humorless yes-man who contributes fairly conventional strategic ideas. And he seems to have moved on quite well from killing his father and the only true love he may have ever had. I figured that the events of that dark final night in King's Landing would have had profound effects on his character development, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
Maybe she goes to Winterfell with a new face, hangs out some and decides it's not the place for her, goes off to work on her list. Ends up back in Essos.
Or yeah, eats it.
He used to be one of the biggest reasons I tuned in every week in the early seasons. And that was because he was uniquely funny, very sharp, loathed "the game," didn't kiss anybody's ass, and still managed to survive (and even thrive) in Westeros.
It seems like all of those qualities have been hiding in a drawer since he met Daenerys. Now he's basically a humorless yes-man who contributes fairly conventional strategic ideas. And he seems to have moved on quite well from killing his father and the only true love he may have ever had. I figured that the events of that dark final night in King's Landing would have had profound effects on his character development, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
Here some flak , but not much ;)
You say hes been humorless since joining Danaerys, but then say he's seemed to move on since killing his father and lover. To me it makes since that Tyrion would never regain that carefree sarcastic side, after what happened his last night in Kinglanding. He has been through way too much to go back to that recreational life.
I wish Tyrion had more screen time. I was really hoping we would get more "Super Beuacracy Team of Tyrion & Varys" scenes last season, but I do think that have gotten his character development on point. Hes a serious and sad, but hopefull man now. A far way from the wise but appethetic wanderer in season 1.
We brought it up last week. I think you have to take some liberties there. It seemed like only a small group went with Yara and Theon. Euron was the new king and in charge of every other person left there. He said he wanted every man, woman, and child to start building so essentially that was all they were doing. Presumably, there was at least a few months that passed when Theon and Yarra went and reached out to Daynerys to join her and then they all made the trip west later. It's a major stretch and should have been something that took years but considering the amount of time left did we really want to waste time watching them build? I think it just is what it is. Maybe the books bring more context to it.
Also, that whole mix up with the gender for Valerian nouns. Could that be a hint, that Cersie's Valonqar prophecy has a similar translation probelm?
Also, that whole mix up with the gender for Valerian nouns. Could that be a hint, that Cersie's Valonqar prophecy has a similar translation probelm?
that theory (the pronoun and the prophecy) made it's way through reddit, but does Cersei have a sister?
no so IMO it's irrelevant in this case.
also maggy used the word "his" not just valonqar in the prophecy, so I don't think it was a case of an improper gender in a word like at dragonstone with Dany and Melisandre:
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When Varys asks "what makes you think this Jon Snow could be the Lord of Light?" Why doesn't Melisandre tell them about Jon's ressurection?
Also, that whole mix up with the gender for Valerian nouns. Could that be a hint, that Cersie's Valonqar prophecy has a similar translation probelm?
that theory (the pronoun and the prophecy) made it's way through reddit, but does Cersei have a sister?
no so IMO it's irrelevant in this case.
also maggy used the word "his" not just valonqar in the prophecy, so I don't think it was a case of an improper gender in a word like at dragonstone with Dany and Melisandre:
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Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,” she said. “And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.
You are most likely right. I just thought it was odd they brought that up about the Valerian language.
But to play devil's advocate for a second, she did say "the Valonqar" not your Valonqar. It really could be anyone's little brother (the hound maybe?) or sister. Maggie also did say "his hands" but last I saw, one of Cersie's brothers has a removable hand.
When you play the pronoun game, there is alot left open for interpretation. All I am saying is, there is about a 0.001% chance that Arya chokes out Cersie with Jaime's golden hand.
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In comment 13537752 Pete in 'Vliet said:
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When Varys asks "what makes you think this Jon Snow could be the Lord of Light?" Why doesn't Melisandre tell them about Jon's ressurection?
Also, that whole mix up with the gender for Valerian nouns. Could that be a hint, that Cersie's Valonqar prophecy has a similar translation probelm?
that theory (the pronoun and the prophecy) made it's way through reddit, but does Cersei have a sister?
no so IMO it's irrelevant in this case.
also maggy used the word "his" not just valonqar in the prophecy, so I don't think it was a case of an improper gender in a word like at dragonstone with Dany and Melisandre:
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Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,” she said. “And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.
You are most likely right. I just thought it was odd they brought that up about the Valerian language.
But to play devil's advocate for a second, she did say "the Valonqar" not your Valonqar. It really could be anyone's little brother (the hound maybe?) or sister. Maggie also did say "his hands" but last I saw, one of Cersie's brothers has a removable hand.
When you play the pronoun game, there is alot left open for interpretation. All I am saying is, there is about a 0.001% chance that Arya chokes out Cersie with Jaime's golden hand.
now that would be awesome. there is a lot of foreshadowing out there for Jamie and Cersei dying together.
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I think there may have been more to that sequence there than him just being a coward/Reek. Realizing he'd have little chance to get to Yara in time and also defeat Euron, jumping overboard likely saves his life and gives him time to mobilize more forces against Euron to save Yara.
I think that too , almost sacrifice for the greater good. Could be what puts him over the top to become a stronger warrior. I assume it will be Theon helping Jon Stark beat Euron
I dont know about this. You want to root for Theon, but this is GOT... good people die all the time, and in this case, he did appear to snap when the chips were at their highest. It's actually a testament to Yara's weakness to have her broken down brother as her bodyguard. Weakness/softness leads to death in this story but we'll see.
To the above poster, Cersei was hot a few seasons back with longer hair and maybe more make up - she got old.
It seemed to me like Dany got a lot more ruthless all of a sudden this episode - yes she treated slavers and some other lords brutally along the way, but all of a sudden she's demanding Jon bend the knee and call her his Queen...not but 10 minutes after deciding not to attack Kings Landing because she didnt want to force the masses to obey out of fear. And all of a sudden going after Varys - didnt they meet up and hash all this out 2 seasons ago, she's just wondering about his loyalties now?
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In comment 13537288 Kyle in NY said:
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I think there may have been more to that sequence there than him just being a coward/Reek. Realizing he'd have little chance to get to Yara in time and also defeat Euron, jumping overboard likely saves his life and gives him time to mobilize more forces against Euron to save Yara.
I think that too , almost sacrifice for the greater good. Could be what puts him over the top to become a stronger warrior. I assume it will be Theon helping Jon Stark beat Euron
I dont know about this. You want to root for Theon, but this is GOT... good people die all the time, and in this case, he did appear to snap when the chips were at their highest. It's actually a testament to Yara's weakness to have her broken down brother as her bodyguard. Weakness/softness leads to death in this story but we'll see.
To the above poster, Cersei was hot a few seasons back with longer hair and maybe more make up - she got old.
It seemed to me like Dany got a lot more ruthless all of a sudden this episode - yes she treated slavers and some other lords brutally along the way, but all of a sudden she's demanding Jon bend the knee and call her his Queen...not but 10 minutes after deciding not to attack Kings Landing because she didnt want to force the masses to obey out of fear. And all of a sudden going after Varys - didnt they meet up and hash all this out 2 seasons ago, she's just wondering about his loyalties now?
Daneaerys and Varys have never shared dialogue together beofore this past episode. He was shown on the ship with her at the end of last season but they never hashed anything out. It was a "grilling" the show needed.
I actually interpret that as part of the reason she hasn't mourned Tommen - because tears are the next part of the prophecy and shes not ready to go yet. She knows it will all come true, so she is just prolonging as best she can.
As some point it will all catch up to her and she will break down then be killed. Im guessing this season finale.
It now appaears to me season 6 will be about determining the ruler of the 7 kingdoms. Thus, season 7 should be about the battle against the White Walkers.
It now appaears to me season 6 will be about determining the ruler of the 7 kingdoms. Thus, season 7 should be about the battle against the White Walkers.
She'll turn more and more into her father
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I think the actor is great and the role is strong. She was even more bad ass last night which surprised me, so I hope she doesn't lose that love for humanity that she has always had.
It now appaears to me season 6 will be about determining the ruler of the 7 kingdoms. Thus, season 7 should be about the battle against the White Walkers.
She'll turn more and more into her father
I hope she does. With Cersei likely biting it this season there needs to be another conflict other than just the White Walkers.
It now appaears to me season 6 will be about determining the ruler of the 7 kingdoms. Thus, season 7 should be about the battle against the White Walkers.
Isn't this season 7 right now?
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In comment 13537908 5BowlsSoon said:
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I think the actor is great and the role is strong. She was even more bad ass last night which surprised me, so I hope she doesn't lose that love for humanity that she has always had.
It now appaears to me season 6 will be about determining the ruler of the 7 kingdoms. Thus, season 7 should be about the battle against the White Walkers.
She'll turn more and more into her father
I hope she does. With Cersei likely biting it this season there needs to be another conflict other than just the White Walkers.
I think she will start coming unglued when she starts losing her dragons, just like how Cersie lost it as her children started dying. I bet she will start to make somecrazy decisions.
I don't think she'll be an ultimate "baddie" though. That's reserved for the Night King in the last season. I can imagine the whole series ending with Danaerys finally sitting on the throne, with an air of uncertainty among everyone (characters and viewers) as to whether she will rule well or become mad.
Banging her brother, manipulating her friends (and Robert into things like having Lady executed).
Losing her kids changed little IMO other than creating more enemies/targets of her vengeance and making it so she'd have to sit on the throne herself instead of through her children.
I get that we all love Jon so Sansa is the one playing the "Skylar White" role right now by nagging him. And she's catching a lot of flak for it. But the choices Jon is facing are not exactly crystal clear. It's never gone well when Stark men ride south. So I don't think she's out of line for bringing that up.
Sansa has been through worse than just about anybody on this show, save for maybe Theon. And she's come out of it wiser and stronger for it. She's matured a great deal from the annoying girl betrothed to Joffrey. Remember, Jon was content to just chill at castle black after being resurrected. She was the one that pushed him to take back their home. And if she didn't take advantage of Littlefinger to secure the services of the Vale, Jon would be dead.
I think she's getting too much criticism.
Also, Jon Snow knows nothing.
I get that we all love Jon so Sansa is the one playing the "Skylar White" role right now by nagging him. And she's catching a lot of flak for it. But the choices Jon is facing are not exactly crystal clear. It's never gone well when Stark men ride south. So I don't think she's out of line for bringing that up.
Sansa has been through worse than just about anybody on this show, save for maybe Theon. And she's come out of it wiser and stronger for it. She's matured a great deal from the annoying girl betrothed to Joffrey. Remember, Jon was content to just chill at castle black after being resurrected. She was the one that pushed him to take back their home. And if she didn't take advantage of Littlefinger to secure the services of the Vale, Jon would be dead.
I think she's getting too much criticism.
I agree. I still think she's a bit in over her head, but she has a far more callous (and appropriate) view of the world than Jon does IMO (which is funny because it's not like Jon's been treated well).
Jon did discuss meeting Danaerys with her. He just didn't relay the message from Sam, which is what he ultimately based his decision on. Its notable how quickly Sansa shut up as soon as he said he was leaving her in charge. I don't blame her. She's been waiting for a chance making her voice heard and now she has it.
Another thing to remember about this Jon/Sansa feud is that Bran is coming. I doubt he wants any part of being in charge of Winterfell again, but he is coming with some big revelations. It looks like Jon will still be away by the time Bran makes it home. Which means Sansa may hear to new first.
In the season trailer and I belive in the trailer for episode 3, HBO keeps showing a shot of Sansa walking toward the camera and away from the Wierwood tree, with a very distrought and confused look on her face, that kind of turns to excitment.
She is probably coming from another creepy conversation with Littlefinger, but maybe its Bran she is walking away from.
The Northern Lords are already becoming weary of Jon (with the help of Sansa public critisms). If she finds out he has Targarean blood and is not Ned's son, will she try to turn the Lords against him in order to focus thier fight on Cersie instead of the walkers? Its unclear how many of the lords even believe Jon about the army of the dead.
I dont hate this storyline as much as other people do. I think it interesting seeing how Sansa trusts the effects of politics and perception over the honorable and couragious actions of the Starks. She has seen what the honor and courage did to Ned and Rob and is probably legitimatley concerned it will happen to Jon. Plus I'm sure Littlefinger will ignore Jon's warning and keeping spitting poison at her until her defense against him starts to crack.
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to burning people lately. Usually that foreshadowing means something on this show. I think it would be an interesting road to go down, having her start descending into madness after winning the throne.
I get that we all love Jon so Sansa is the one playing the "Skylar White" role right now by nagging him. And she's catching a lot of flak for it. But the choices Jon is facing are not exactly crystal clear. It's never gone well when Stark men ride south. So I don't think she's out of line for bringing that up.
Sansa has been through worse than just about anybody on this show, save for maybe Theon. And she's come out of it wiser and stronger for it. She's matured a great deal from the annoying girl betrothed to Joffrey. Remember, Jon was content to just chill at castle black after being resurrected. She was the one that pushed him to take back their home. And if she didn't take advantage of Littlefinger to secure the services of the Vale, Jon would be dead.
I think she's getting too much criticism.
I agree. I still think she's a bit in over her head, but she has a far more callous (and appropriate) view of the world than Jon does IMO (which is funny because it's not like Jon's been treated well).
They just said it in the last episode. Jon doesn't want to be king. Sansa does and that's the difference and why Sansa is a hot pile of shit.
Probably.
I got a feeling, when the Wall comes down, Bran will be there somehow.
I think Brans story line is obviously going to take a step forward more so next season when the WW arive, they will likely set that in place before this season is over, obviously he still needs to reveal to Jon who he really is, which is big news, and who knows how it will be received.
the Night King marked Bran during a vision and allegedly (according to the then three-eyed raven) it meant they will come for him and it also meant their safe space was no longer safe from the Night King and the White Walkers and it led to Summer's death and Hodor's death.
If he were to stay at Castle Black, he would have to take a short trip North of the wall each day to "plug into" a wierwood (the one Jon and Sam swore their oaths at). This would obviously be pretty dangerous once the Walkers start to approach.
It make much better sense for him to see and advise from behind the scenes back at Winterfell. When he gets there I bet he will put to rest any questions about whether he should be the rightfull "King in the North" by birthright. Bran has been there done that and it didn't turn out very well for him. He'd much rather be the 3-eyed raven and leave the ruling to Sansa or Jon.
With the Night King's mark on Bran's arm, that breaks any magic that kept the White Walkers at bay. So once Bran crossed the Wall, the Night King should now be able to take down the Wall.
Yea buzzfeed picked up on this and also referenced the hound describing what he sees in the fire
Link - ( New Window )
I accidently saw something similar while reading a recapp for the 1st episode this season. It may be a spoiler so I will post below in white text.
Apparently a line was cut from The Hound's fireside monolouge. The full, uncut speech was
"Ice. A wall of ice. The Wall. It’s where the Wall meets the sea. THE WAVES ARE FROZEN There’s a castle there. There’s a mountain. Looks like an arrowhead. The dead are marching past. Thousands of them."
If this is accurate, it seems the Walkers will be marching around the wall. I wonder if the mountain that looks like an arrowhead is actually a ship frozen in the bay.
Unless he can somehow add value to the story (like maybe revisit tower of joy or shed light on Jon Snow's true identity) he should probably embed himself in a weirwood tree somewhere and live out his days like the prior three-eyed raven.
He's already indirectly responsible for so many deaths, and I have yet to see his purpose.
He can warg, he's a green seer, but to what purpose?
any theories?
If he were to stay at Castle Black, he would have to take a short trip North of the wall each day to "plug into" a wierwood (the one Jon and Sam swore their oaths at). This would obviously be pretty dangerous once the Walkers start to approach.
I mean he isn't going back to be Lord of WInterfell and having cookouts with his siblings. He's got bigger items on his agenda...
It make much better sense for him to see and advise from behind the scenes back at Winterfell. When he gets there I bet he will put to rest any questions about whether he should be the rightfull "King in the North" by birthright. Bran has been there done that and it didn't turn out very well for him. He'd much rather be the 3-eyed raven and leave the ruling to Sansa or Jon.
I remember the showrunners being interviewed after the Hodor/Hold The Door episode last season, and they said they were blown away when George RR Martin told them the Hodor origin, and were blown away by another shocking discovery later in the story. I'm guessing the next one has to do with Bran.
Seems kind of harsh to blame him for all the deaths that ensued from him climbing that tower, or failing to antipicate Theon's treachery after Robb left him in charge. Bran has mostly been a victim, at least by GoT standards.
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He's already indirectly responsible for so many deaths, and I have yet to see his purpose.
Seems kind of harsh to blame him for all the deaths that ensued from him climbing that tower, or failing to antipicate Theon's treachery after Robb left him in charge. Bran has mostly been a victim, at least by GoT standards.
I meant Hodor, Jojen, Summer, the children of the forest who were killed because of him, the prior 3-eyed Raven (or crow), etc. on his journey people who died specifically to protect Bran while on this quest or because of him, that at some point might click and have readers/watchers say ahh now I get it, but today I don't see the end game that was worth those lives and more.
To me Bran's story is more mysterious than anyone's, he's got a unique set of skills with warging and green seeing, but how does he use them to help the 7 kingdoms.
Cam Bran be the "builder" like his ancestor or even the uniter or is he less important.
Yeah, the three-eyed Raven said Jojen knew his fate, but again, my point is how does it end?
I realize that's kind of the point, not to know the end, but with a lot of people in the show you can sort of guess or have theories, but Bran is a mystery. to me.
What's kind of interestiong about him is Bran seems to have a very mischevious and curious personality. He's not afraid to "break the rules" in order to save himself and friends or to serve his own curiosity. Even in episode 1 he would climb everywhere and spy on everyone. Obviously that has gotten him to alot of touble, but it also got him out of some jams (warging into humans is probably a no-no, but Locke would have killed him if he didn't take over Hodor).
Yet, he has been very passive in his own story. Even when he does get to make a decision, he doesn't really have much choice in the matter. Breaking the rules is the only thing Bran gets to do that isn't ordered or persuaded by Robb, or Maester Luewin, or Osha, or Jojen or the 3-eyed Raven.
Because he can warg? and the prior three-eyed Raven was "just" a green seer?
Because he can warg? and the prior three-eyed Raven was "just" a green seer?
IIRC being a green seer and a warg is what makes Bran special, even when compared to the previous 2 eyed raven.
There are a few chapters in the books that talk about the Isle of Faces and many people think that some of the green men still live there. It's an island made up almost entirely of weirwood trees, I believe. Bran has expressed interest in going there and Howland Reed supposedly spent a few months there with the green men before the Tournament at Harrenhal. What better place for Bran the Three Eyed Raven than an entire island of weirwoods and children of the forest?
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to me is why couldn't the other three-eyed Raven do anything to stop the Night King's army but Bran people suspect can?
Because he can warg? and the prior three-eyed Raven was "just" a green seer?
IIRC being a green seer and a warg is what makes Bran special, even when compared to the previous 2 eyed raven.
I kind of got the sense that Bran could warg into things other people couldn't, like Direwolves and of course humans.
Maybe what makes him special is he can eventually warg into the wights, stopping the army of the dead or turning them on the Walkers. Either that or he will warg into a dragon, but I don't see how that is special if someone could just ride one.
The three-eyed raven warned him not to though.
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In comment 13538649 pjcas18 said:
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to me is why couldn't the other three-eyed Raven do anything to stop the Night King's army but Bran people suspect can?
Because he can warg? and the prior three-eyed Raven was "just" a green seer?
IIRC being a green seer and a warg is what makes Bran special, even when compared to the previous 2 eyed raven.
I kind of got the sense that Bran could warg into things other people couldn't, like Direwolves and of course humans.
Maybe what makes him special is he can eventually warg into the wights, stopping the army of the dead or turning them on the Walkers. Either that or he will warg into a dragon, but I don't see how that is special if someone could just ride one.
One of the wildlings warged into the hawk that found Qhorin Halfhand so it isn't exclusive to Bran.
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In comment 13538685 Kevin in Annapolis said:
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In comment 13538649 pjcas18 said:
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to me is why couldn't the other three-eyed Raven do anything to stop the Night King's army but Bran people suspect can?
Because he can warg? and the prior three-eyed Raven was "just" a green seer?
IIRC being a green seer and a warg is what makes Bran special, even when compared to the previous 2 eyed raven.
I kind of got the sense that Bran could warg into things other people couldn't, like Direwolves and of course humans.
Maybe what makes him special is he can eventually warg into the wights, stopping the army of the dead or turning them on the Walkers. Either that or he will warg into a dragon, but I don't see how that is special if someone could just ride one.
One of the wildlings warged into the hawk that found Qhorin Halfhand so it isn't exclusive to Bran.
No one has warged into a Hodor, (or any other human) before
Plus the way he animates the dead, could be an advanced for of warging. Instead of warging into an animal or human like Bran has done, maybe the Night King can warg into the dead.
Plus in that flash back scene with the children, they captured one of the "First Men" and turned him into a White Walker by putting dragon glass through his chest. Wasn't it also mentioned that the Stark family line directly linked to the First Men thousands of years ago? Maybe the Night King and Bran have similar abilities because they are from the same bloodline (separated by a thousand years) which also explains how rare this ability is and why both Bran and the Night King are special.
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In comment 13538697 Pete in 'Vliet said:
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In comment 13538685 Kevin in Annapolis said:
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In comment 13538649 pjcas18 said:
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to me is why couldn't the other three-eyed Raven do anything to stop the Night King's army but Bran people suspect can?
Because he can warg? and the prior three-eyed Raven was "just" a green seer?
IIRC being a green seer and a warg is what makes Bran special, even when compared to the previous 2 eyed raven.
I kind of got the sense that Bran could warg into things other people couldn't, like Direwolves and of course humans.
Maybe what makes him special is he can eventually warg into the wights, stopping the army of the dead or turning them on the Walkers. Either that or he will warg into a dragon, but I don't see how that is special if someone could just ride one.
One of the wildlings warged into the hawk that found Qhorin Halfhand so it isn't exclusive to Bran.
No one has warged into a Hodor, (or any other human) before
Right, humans I can see but direwolves might be different since we've seen it already with an Eagle. But the 1 human it happened to was Hodor and his mind was "simple". Curious to see if Bran has free reign on that power or not.
The White Walkers then turned on the Children of the Forest and became their enemies (and enemies of everyone).
there was a huge battle, all of Westeros came together, defeated the White Walkers and their wights and built the wall and created the Night's Watch.
which covers thousands of years but is sort of where we are now, those at Hadrhome and survived know the terror (like Jon Snow, Samwell, etc.), those who weren't there don't believe it exists and are willfully ignorant.
Plus the way he animates the dead, could be an advanced for of warging. Instead of warging into an animal or human like Bran has done, maybe the Night King can warg into the dead.
Plus in that flash back scene with the children, they captured one of the "First Men" and turned him into a White Walker by putting dragon glass through his chest. Wasn't it also mentioned that the Stark family line directly linked to the First Men thousands of years ago? Maybe the Night King and Bran have similar abilities because they are from the same bloodline (separated by a thousand years) which also explains how rare this ability is and why both Bran and the Night King are special.
Plus the way the Night King turned babies into White Walkers, maybe that is an advance form of warging that is transferred by touch. Maybe it's hard to do that to humans as they get older, which is why he preferred Craster's baby son's that were born. Easier to covert them by touch if their mind is as blank as a babies.
Speaking of which, how did Craster and the Night King first originally come to this agreement, does the Night King talk and we just haven't seen it yet?
My only question is how far can Bran take it. He warged a human with the mental capacity of a small child which could come into play. I kind of feel like Bran being able to warg anyone will really cheapen the conclusion of the series. I hope there are limitations and warging a human like Hodor was a one time thing.
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And Jojen's no slouch himself when it comes to such tricks.
My only question is how far can Bran take it. He warged a human with the mental capacity of a small child which could come into play. I kind of feel like Bran being able to warg anyone will really cheapen the conclusion of the series. I hope there are limitations and warging a human like Hodor was a one time thing.
Yeah, entering an adult mind and controlling it, is really the entering creepy and kind of evil zone. Depending on how they do it, it could be fun. I don't like to think Bran is capable of that.
I still predict Bran comes face to face with "zombie Hodor" next season and as a last ditch effort to save himself, he successfully wargs into 'Zomdor', giving him the idea he can do it to any zombie wight.
The woman he warged into fought back inside her mind.
It was weird.
What I'm getting at is, is it at all possible Littlefinger is actually Sansa's father? And that, knowing the war was over and he would lose Caitlyn forever, Baelish finally managed to seduce her just before Ned returned?
It was just a bit weird, the way he told Jon "I love Sansa. I loved her mother". I know he kissed Sansa back in season 4, but Baelish is a creepy dude anyway. Also, could the reason Cat hated Jon so much was that he actually reminded her of her own infedelity as well as the possibility Sansa wasn't Ned's?
What I'm getting at is, is it at all possible Littlefinger is actually Sansa's father? And that, knowing the war was over and he would lose Caitlyn forever, Baelish finally managed to seduce her just before Ned returned?
Interesting theory. I checked the wiki. The war ended in 283 AC, Sansa was born in 286 AC, so was either conceived in 285 or 286. It is doubtful that they would have been at Riverrun then. Also, Little finger was banished from Riverrun in 828 AC.
What I'm getting at is, is it at all possible Littlefinger is actually Sansa's father? And that, knowing the war was over and he would lose Caitlyn forever, Baelish finally managed to seduce her just before Ned returned?
It was just a bit weird, the way he told Jon "I love Sansa. I loved her mother". I know he kissed Sansa back in season 4, but Baelish is a creepy dude anyway. Also, could the reason Cat hated Jon so much was that he actually reminded her of her own infedelity as well as the possibility Sansa wasn't Ned's?
In the books, they are bout 3 years older than Sansa...
I think he is a skilled player of "the game". But Cat was never very fond of him in that way...