I've always been intrigued by his ongoing story. I worked in Indiana when he was incarcerated there. His E60 story is in now.
He's a champion. A criminal. A character. A scared little boy. A scary monster. A predator's victim.
Wondering, do a lot of people view him sympathetically today?
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In comment 13536806 PetesHereNow said:
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If you're a beautiful woman, why are you going to a man's hotel room at 2 am? Yes, he may have forced himself on her and that shouldn't happen. Or perhaps she lied and that shouldn't happen either. But, it is naive to think that she was just going to meet him and watch a little tv. At the time, the guy was the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world. At that level, I guarantee you women were lining up to be a notch on his belt.
As a fighter, lot of early. round knockouts. But whenever he fought better fighters of his time who weren't scared out of their minds, he lost. A prime and motivated Douglas beat him. Holyfield kicked his ass once and frustrated him so much mentally that Tyson bit him. Lennox Lewis dominated him. Tyson was most successful when he was training hard under Cus, Rooney, and Atlas. Most of his victories, guys like Berbick and Spinks were beaten before the bell rang. Yes, he beat a legend like Larry Holmes but Holmes was past his prime and coming off a two year retirement. Every time you want to view Tyson in a positive light, the sentence always starts with, "if Cus didn't die...". Without Cus, his head movement and defensive skills went to hell and he became a guy hoping to hit the lucky knockout punch.
A lot of this re: his boxing legacy is revisionist history.
The Douglas fight is one of the biggest upsets in the history of all sports. Tyson wasn't prepared and obviously didn't take the fight seriously.
The rest of the fights occurred after Tyson had been in jail for several years. There's no telling how his career and legacy would be remembered now if things worked out a little differently.
It wasn't Cus' death. It was the firing of Rooney. Yes, Cus was "inventor" of his "Peek-a-boo" style, but Rooney improved it, mostly by adding more movement and particularly footwork.
There is a clear line where Tyson went from being an all time great to being a very good, but flawed heavyweight- and that is when Rooney was fired.
For evidence, watch any Tyson fight up to and including the Spinks fight and compare that with every fight afterwards. The head movement decreases dramatically as does the lateral movement. With both of those gone, it becomes more difficult for Tyson to get inside where his hand speed, flurries, and vicious uppercuts can do their damage.
Maybe Tyson stays with Rooney if Cus or Jacobs doesn't die. Who knows? It isn't like Cus was able to control him very well either. There are examples of plenty of fighters that fire their flesh and blood fathers in the sport- and most of them have much more stable personalities than what Tyson had at the time, so there really isn't anything to say that Cus or Jacobs being alive would have been able to keep King from stealing Tyson away.
I'm speaking really only of how great of a fighter he is/was.
How do I view him now as a person? My opinion has changed over the years. I thought he was a piece of shit throughout the 90's. Lately, though? He seems to have finally found some semblance of peace and happiness in his life. Listening to interviews with him nowadays is pretty amazing, IMO.
Funniest show on that many people aren't aware of
As a fighter, very exciting run
As a great all time fighter, I just don't see it. The main reason I don't think it would have been a fight was that Ali had a 10 inch reach on him. Liston a 13 inch reach on him. Both had difficult jabs. And neither of those guys was going to be remotely afraid of Tyson. Lewis was too much. Shavers and Norton and prime Foreman.
But the fight that would have been the most brutal I can imagine was peak Frazier and peak Tyson. Wow
He couldn't fight going backwards, lost all his leverage. That's one reason they never put him in with Foreman.
And then you have to question his heart. he was a bully and an intimidator. He was not a fighter.
"Bite again and I'll disqualify you", so he bit again.
That's not an accident. Holyfield was going to make him fight, there was nothing intimidated that man. Bully's are not tough guys and Tyson needed a way out. He found it.
Ali, Frazier, Marciano those were tough guys and no way they quit.
So in the end, in a sport I know alot about, I'm not rating him as a great fighter. First guy that stood up to him he was going to quit. First guy that forced him backwards, he was going to lose.
This. Buster Douglas was the only guy who didn't quiver in fear and just kept pumping jabs into his face.
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Came up with a bunch of bums in a weak time in the boxing world. Won most of his fights on intimidation. If he came up in the era of Ali/Frazier he would have been like Ken Norton at best.
This. Buster Douglas was the only guy who didn't quiver in fear and just kept pumping jabs into his face.
Not entirely true. Tyson fought a few fightsw pre Douglas that went close to 10-12 rounds. He won those fights too.
He was a great fighter until he wasn't a great fighter. Simple as that. All you have to do is watch the guy during the 80s. He was flawless. I think peak Tyson would have been a problem for any of the all time greats. And I think those greats would have brought out the best in Tyson. That's usually how boxing works.
Once Douglas beat Tyson the end was nigh. Prison, age, and bad habits loomed.
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In comment 13537109 PatersonPlank said:
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Came up with a bunch of bums in a weak time in the boxing world. Won most of his fights on intimidation. If he came up in the era of Ali/Frazier he would have been like Ken Norton at best.
This. Buster Douglas was the only guy who didn't quiver in fear and just kept pumping jabs into his face.
Not entirely true. Tyson fought a few fightsw pre Douglas that went close to 10-12 rounds. He won those fights too.
He was a great fighter until he wasn't a great fighter. Simple as that. All you have to do is watch the guy during the 80s. He was flawless. I think peak Tyson would have been a problem for any of the all time greats. And I think those greats would have brought out the best in Tyson. That's usually how boxing works.
Once Douglas beat Tyson the end was nigh. Prison, age, and bad habits loomed.
Like who? Boneclutcher Smith? Who just clinched for 12 rounds and refused to exchange? I think Tyson was a classic bully. Once the intimdation factor wore off he was done. His own saying described him best:"Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth". Once he got he he had no answer.
Smokin' Joe and Tyson would have been a good matchup.
Ernie Shavers clocked him and had his eyeballs spinning on the canvas but he got up and won.
As a person? Hard to feel both sorry and unsorry for him. He was a victim in so many ways, and ultra-exploited... but how much of his problems and transgressions are on his own personality? Tough to know.
It's too bad Cus passed on so early in Mike's career. All anyone can do now is speculate and wonder what more could have been.
I understand but don't agree with this argument. He fought who was there. By the time he fought Douglas he was a partied out shell who didn't fight the way he was taught anymore. He never regained the style that made him so formidable. He NEEDED that style to be so successful. I saw him fight live, I saw quite a few fights back then actually... I never heard a bodyshot like what Tyson threw. It literally sounded like a cannon going off... lol. In his prime under D'Amato you literally felt like someone may die in the ring against him. I never felt that way watching any other fighter (in person or no).
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Mike Tyson Mysteries
Funniest show on that many people aren't aware of
Yup, love that show!
I'd say there was nobody worthy in his day. He's sort of like Larry Holmes.Can't get credit for how good you are because the competition wasn't there
As a fighter, he was a one punch wonder as demonstrated in his short career.
Who was there to beat? I'm sure you have the answer.
I'll wait.
He also gave up the belt following the bout b/c he didn't want to fight Chris Byrd. Gimme a fucking break.
He also gave up the belt following the bout b/c he didn't want to fight Chris Byrd. Gimme a fucking break.
Come on. You had to Wikipedia Lewis didn't you?
Lewis was a better fighter and was boring as fuck. People love Tyson because they want to believe the exciting pit bull they watched decades ago was actually something great.
There was the story that he helped carry a granny's groceries home, then when he got her alone in her elevator, beat her and took her cash.
Lots of stuff to despise in Tyson's life. He did bite Holyfield's ear on television, y'know.
People are complicated. Nobody is all one thing. There are lots of accounts of his good side. I'm sure it's real. I wouldn't want that guy in my life, or near my family, though.
I heard the granny thing about Hurricane Carter also. Either it was a common thing or one story (true or untrue) just got applied to a few people.
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from his lifestyle, cunt wife and her parasitic mother, media and scrutiny by the time Lewis came around after fighting ham n eggers his whole career.
He also gave up the belt following the bout b/c he didn't want to fight Chris Byrd. Gimme a fucking break.
Come on. You had to Wikipedia Lewis didn't you?
Lewis was a better fighter and was boring as fuck. People love Tyson because they want to believe the exciting pit bull they watched decades ago was actually something great.
Not sure what that means but there are plenty of world champs who fought past their primes. A guy like Tyson with so much baggage was easy for the pickings.
In his prime, I think Tyson murders Lewis. And Lewis was a great fighter - a very tough matchup for Tyson and many others.
As a fighter, he was a one punch wonder as demonstrated in his short career.
This is so false it's not even funny. When he came up as a pro he was far, FAR from a one punch wonder. That loses any credibility for any argument you have.
There is a clear change (for the much worse) in his fighting style after Cus and Rooney are gone. The head movement, the peek-a-boo and most importantly the combinations that started with the body. And obviously Robin Givens and Don King were not the ones to keep him on the straight and narrow. At the top of his game before he starts to crash he beats anyone from his era that you put in front of him, easily. Anyone that says he was a one punch wonder, go back and watch his first 35 fights. That is just completely false.
In no world does prime Tyson beat Lewis or even Klitchsko.
His peek a boo style and getting in close doesn't lend itself to giving up a foot in reach when the other bigger taller boxer literally will throw only jabs for 10 rounds. I don't see any opportunities for him to get inside and do his work.
Tyson had his shots to take down big names like Holyfield and Lewis and he failed. His story is built on a pile of soup cans and what-ifs. I'm not even sure if he ever even avenged a loss ever. The definition of a bully who had a plan until he got punched in the mouth.
In no world does prime Tyson beat Lewis or even Klitchsko.
His peek a boo style and getting in close doesn't lend itself to giving up a foot in reach when the other bigger taller boxer literally will throw only jabs for 10 rounds. I don't see any opportunities for him to get inside and do his work.
Tyson had his shots to take down big names like Holyfield and Lewis and he failed. His story is built on a pile of soup cans and what-ifs. I'm not even sure if he ever even avenged a loss ever. The definition of a bully who had a plan until he got punched in the mouth.
Klitschko??? LOL And you're completely wrong about style, the style that takes down taller fighters is bob and weave with powerful combinations to the body. Tyson had ferocious body shot combos that would feed into an outstanding uppercut. It's exactly how you beat taller fighters. Cus said he molded Tyson into that style to take advantage of his natural power, natural footwork and great head movement. You need to be in extreme physical condition to fight this style, and that was all part of their extreme regimen (diet, mental, physical). He fought every 2 weeks when he was coming up. Once Cus died all of that stuff went away. He became a one punch knockout type fighter that went completely away from the style that made him so devastating, really unbeatable.
Don't take my word for it. Google Cus D'Amato. Look for some vids of him discussing why they created Mike's style specifically for him. He was literally molded to take down taller fighters.
Shortly after the Spinks fight is when Tyson fired Kevin Rooney. It was his undoing. He abandoned the techniques that made him great and became just another slugger.
If you're going to knock Tyson for the quality of his opponents, who exactly are the legends that Lennox Lewis beat? Oliver McCall? Ooops, wait, he lost to Oliver McCall.
Klitschko
Tyson
Holyfield
Which stack up as better opponents than Tyson fought. He also avenged all his losses. Lewis was a boring fighter who no one talks up and his fighting record and opponents are superior to Tyson.
Tyson's greatest fight was apparently a light heavyweight in Spinks.
I'm actually no Lewis fan - literallly only watched him fight 2 times. He is an example of the difference in hype. Objectively and quantifiably he is better than Tyson head to head, common opponents and record wise. Lewis never faced a fighter he couldn't beat (eventually). Tyson folded.
Basically the football version of the Pro Tyson crowd. Tyson gets all the benefit of the what ifs because people want him to be an all time great. No other athlete is given such ridiculous reverance. Being tough mentally and keeping yourself motivated and focused is more than half the battle. Apparently some want to believe other athletes never had the hardships Tyson had or that the world is a fair place.
Lewis beat Tyson in 2002 when he'd be washed up for over a decade. If you're gonna hang your hat on that, I don't know what else to say.
Tyson undoubtedly falls short of the legendary fighters like Ali, Frazier and others simply because he never got off the mat, so to speak. Tyson never had the rivalry with another recognizable great fighter. But to sit here and blame Tyson because he never fought a great opponent is unfair and possibly not even true. What if Michael Spinks got up after those knockdowns and gave Tyson a good fight? What that endear people more to Tyson? It's not Tyson's fault that some pretty decent fighters looked like school girls when they got into the ring with Mike.
We will never know how Tyson fares against some of the so called legends. But don't tell me Tyson wasn't a dominant heavyweight fighter for 4-5 years. At his peak Tyson didn't need a stronger chin.
We all agree that Tyson didn't have a long enough prime but he was a force of nature early on. The guy killed everyone in his path and did so in a manner that the boxing world has never seen before or after.
Lennox Lewis was a good heavyweight. And yes he beat Tyson in the late 90s. Not the same thing and you know it.
Same goes with Tyson.
In his later fights, all that movement is gone. In his prime, his most devastating punch was his uppercut, but in later fights he didn't get inside like that anymore. He just stood there flat-footed and tried to throw big knockout hooks. The head movement wasn't there anymore, so those jabs he used to brush off would land.
Crazier to me is that in some of the later fights Tyson would resemble the old Tyson for a brief moment or two only to revert to the haymaker Tyson.
It isn't as easy as it looks to move like Tyson did. Forget talent, that also took serious conditioning and effort. Simply put, Tyson just got soft and lazy.
I know, me neither lol... I was just kiddin
Ha! It took me a LOT of hours to beat that game.