Best case scenario is trading Ellsbury for a pitcher with a similarly shitty contract. And him with him being benched thanks to the kids stepping up, I think there's a decent chance they may not only find a taker if they add in a prospect but Ellsbury would waive his NTC to actually go to a team where he'll be able to play consistently.
But they'd have to Take Castro and give us a haul back.. we will pay the tab on Cano.. maybe we can add in Headley to ensure we stay under the tax next year.
But Cueto or Verlander for Ellsbury makes the most sense from the Yankees point of view (in the hope that the pitcher regains his glory). At least there would be a place for a resurgent Cueto or Verlander, but the Yankees have the outfield covered with or without a well-performing Ellsbury.
And as far as living in fantasy world is concerned, how about Ellsbury, Gardner, Montgomery, Adams and some cash for Gerrit Cole? The Pirates are only 3 games out, so they may not want to throw in the towel on the season (although the Cubs seem primed to take control of the division down the stretch), but this trade keeps them competitive this year while at the same time bolstering their farm for the future.
In my delusional trade the Pirates get an immediate replacement for Cole in Montgomery, a decent pitching prospect in Adams (probably overrated by Yankees fans, but who knows), and two veteran outfielders (where they are pedestrian at best) who can help them right away in the race for the division. Maybe throw in one or two more mid-level prospects to sweeten the deal (Abreau, Acevedo, Fowler, Austin, and/or Wade). Such a trade would still leave the Yankees farm system in good shape with pitchers Kaprielian, Sheffield, Tate, Littel, Schmidt, and Bauer (to name a few) and players Torres, Mateo, Andujar, and Florial (to name a few).
Cole remains the best starting pitcher (who may or may not be) available in trade and would be a game-changer addition if the Yankees could pull it off. It would give them a playoff rotation of Cole, Severino, Sabathia, and Tanaka and a bullpen of Chapman, Betances, Robertson, Kahnle, Green, and Warren. That's a pretty good pitching staff and the Yankees outfield can easily survive the loss of Gardner and Ellsbury even if Hicks is slow to return to form.
Ellsbury lol. The point of getting rid of Ellsbury would be to get rid of the contract. The only way anyone would trade for him is if they were offloading a contract too, don't think it would be smart for the Yankees to do that at this point. Regardless of what he is doing this year, Cano is 34 with a lot of time left on his deal. Wouldn't be smart.
Makes sense, but I don't see the Pirates trading Cole since there only 3 games out in the central... bad contract for bad contract is the way to go here.
At first I thought maybe that would be a good idea, but then I checked Robbie's contract. I can't believe he still has 6 more years to go, no thanks to that.
would be to pick up at least 15M a year of his contract. Still would save them 8M a year they would be rid of him. I think if it happens it will be over the winter. More than likely they'll just have to release him and eat all of his money. Again I think if that happens it will be in the winter.
willing to explain this in a calm and reasonable way, explain how this idea even slightly makes sense for Seattle or any other team in the sport?
Ellsbury is "only" owed 68 million, Cano is owed 144. It would strictly be about getting out from under the Cano deal before it's "unmovable". Has nothing to do with the talent involved. If they both had 3 years 68 owed the Mariners would laugh this off the table and the Yankees would pull the trigger within seconds.
First off, the reason the Yankees didn't sign Cano is because of the length of the contract. A 10 year deal that brings him to the age of 42. So now the Yankees will trade for him at 35 when he has 6 years left?? That makes no sense at all.
They you can factor in that Cano has been slightly underwhelming in his 4 years there. He's been solid, but overall he has not lived up to that deal, IMO. His BA and OBP have taken a bit of a hit and his power has been inconsistent. He's not going to get better over the next 6 years as father time will certainly catch up to him.
Why in the world would the Yankees trade for Cano when they let him walk over the length of a deal that brings him well past 40 years old?
If we were gonna let Cano go and then give Ellsbury that contract the. I'd much rather have Cano. He's been much more productive than Ellsbury and will likely continue to be productive late into his career. One of the best pure hitters of this era. Plus, there's that soft spot for home grown players. Especially who could be in Cooperstown one day.
If we were gonna let Cano go and then give Ellsbury that contract the. I'd much rather have Cano. He's been much more productive than Ellsbury and will likely continue to be productive late into his career. One of the best pure hitters of this era. Plus, there's that soft spot for home grown players. Especially who could be in Cooperstown one day.
Cano has 6 more years! He's already started to slow down as he's about to turn 35. If you think he's going to keep up even this pace for 6 more years, I have a bridge to sell you. The Yankees would be complete morons to consider this.
Castro and Ellsbury for Cano and between 7-17 million.
I agree that Cano's contract is WAY too much, but they're literally pouring money down the drain as it pertains to Ellsbury right now. Unless someone can show me a team willing to take his contract without something bad coming back or if the team truly believes they're better off just dumping Ells, I think this is as good as it gets.
I think Seattle would move Cano, but I seriously doubt they would do it midseason.
If we were gonna let Cano go and then give Ellsbury that contract the. I'd much rather have Cano. He's been much more productive than Ellsbury and will likely continue to be productive late into his career. One of the best pure hitters of this era. Plus, there's that soft spot for home grown players. Especially who could be in Cooperstown one day.
Cano has 6 more years! He's already started to slow down as he's about to turn 35. If you think he's going to keep up even this pace for 6 more years, I have a bridge to sell you. The Yankees would be complete morons to consider this.
damn right. refusing to give Cano 10 years was smart. The stupidity of signing Ellsbury to a 7 yr big $$ deal doesn't change that. The last thing they will need is Cano's fat 40 yr old ass taking up a roster spot and budget space.
They you can factor in that Cano has been slightly underwhelming in his 4 years there. He's been solid, but overall he has not lived up to that deal, IMO.
He's finished top 8 in MVP voting twice in 3 years. In the other season, he got off to a terrible start, but finished the season with a 331/387/540 second half. In 2017, Starlin Castro is having perhaps the best season of his career and his OPS+ is still lower than Cano's.
Ummm... those are 2 of the 5/6 best seasons of Cano's Hall of Fame career.
He "hit below his averages" because Safeco is consistently bottom half to bottom third of the sport in park factor hitting. He's hit more HRs on the road during his Seattle career than in Safeco.
They you can factor in that Cano has been slightly underwhelming in his 4 years there. He's been solid, but overall he has not lived up to that deal, IMO.
He's finished top 8 in MVP voting twice in 3 years. In the other season, he got off to a terrible start, but finished the season with a 331/387/540 second half. In 2017, Starlin Castro is having perhaps the best season of his career and his OPS+ is still lower than Cano's.
Since you think comparing him to Castro is important, is there a reason you didn't add the salary differential? I'll take Castros production and contract over Canos any day of the week. I'm not sure why you threw Castro into this, but since you did, at least be fair about it
Ummm... those are 2 of the 5/6 best seasons of Cano's Hall of Fame career.
He "hit below his averages" because Safeco is consistently bottom half to bottom third of the sport in park factor hitting. He's hit more HRs on the road during his Seattle career than in Safeco.
Um, BA and OPS have little to do with the size of Safeco. Um, a larger park should net you a higher BA and then a higher OBP. Those that aren't HR's are still hits with a bigger park.
They you can factor in that Cano has been slightly underwhelming in his 4 years there. He's been solid, but overall he has not lived up to that deal, IMO.
He's finished top 8 in MVP voting twice in 3 years. In the other season, he got off to a terrible start, but finished the season with a 331/387/540 second half. In 2017, Starlin Castro is having perhaps the best season of his career and his OPS+ is still lower than Cano's.
Since you think comparing him to Castro is important, is there a reason you didn't add the salary differential? I'll take Castros production and contract over Canos any day of the week. I'm not sure why you threw Castro into this, but since you did, at least be fair about it
Agree. Not saying Castro's peak will match Cano's, but like you I'll take his "bang for the buck" any day. And he's good enoguh nd economical enough to bring backa decent return if they decide to move him and kim a kid like Mateo at 2b. Cano would be an untradeable, unmoveable blockage in the lineup with no position but DH in 2 yrs. A-Rod redux.
They you can factor in that Cano has been slightly underwhelming in his 4 years there. He's been solid, but overall he has not lived up to that deal, IMO.
He's finished top 8 in MVP voting twice in 3 years. In the other season, he got off to a terrible start, but finished the season with a 331/387/540 second half. In 2017, Starlin Castro is having perhaps the best season of his career and his OPS+ is still lower than Cano's.
Since you think comparing him to Castro is important, is there a reason you didn't add the salary differential? I'll take Castros production and contract over Canos any day of the week. I'm not sure why you threw Castro into this, but since you did, at least be fair about it
Fair about what? He's not even remotely on Cano's level and 3 of the best months of Castro's career doesn't change that fact. I don't understand why anyone would waste a single breath in defense of Castro.
More imprtantly, we're not talking about their contracts in vacuums. No one would want Cano's contract as is. However, if the Mariners take Castro and Ellsbury (combined $86+ million remaining on their deals) and kick in $7-17 million, that's a deal I would seriously consider.
I also think Castro is unfairly maligned by many here. He can hit
They you can factor in that Cano has been slightly underwhelming in his 4 years there. He's been solid, but overall he has not lived up to that deal, IMO.
He's finished top 8 in MVP voting twice in 3 years. In the other season, he got off to a terrible start, but finished the season with a 331/387/540 second half. In 2017, Starlin Castro is having perhaps the best season of his career and his OPS+ is still lower than Cano's.
Since you think comparing him to Castro is important, is there a reason you didn't add the salary differential? I'll take Castros production and contract over Canos any day of the week. I'm not sure why you threw Castro into this, but since you did, at least be fair about it
Fair about what? He's not even remotely on Cano's level and 3 of the best months of Castro's career doesn't change that fact. I don't understand why anyone would waste a single breath in defense of Castro.
More imprtantly, we're not talking about their contracts in vacuums. No one would want Cano's contract as is. However, if the Mariners take Castro and Ellsbury (combined $86+ million remaining on their deals) and kick in $7-17 million, that's a deal I would seriously consider.
I liked Cano when he was here, but at 35+ there is no way I'd take him for 7 yrs aat that money.
in 2-3 years. Anyone who would take that on NOW, after letting him walk because of the length of the deal, can't see the forrest through the trees. We let one of the best hitters in the game walk because he wanted 10 years which brings him to 42. He then goes to Seattle for 4 years and we are going to bring him back at 35 years old??? How does that make any sense to anyone? There is no chance it's even a consideration.
Um, BA and OPS have little to do with the size of Safeco. Um, a larger park should net you a higher BA and then a higher OBP. Those that aren't HR's are still hits with a bigger park.
Literally nothing you said here is true. There's a reason "park factors" exist and they're not opinions... they're statistically based. Since 2014 (which happens to be the season Cano joined the Mariners), it's a below average park in EVERY statistic except HRs. In HRs, it's a hair above average... that's it.
Cano's overpaid and the last few years of his deal will be bad, but he's still an excellent hitter right now. Ellsbury is utterly useless right now and they're on the hook for three more seasons after this one. You improve the team for the next several seasons and stop wasting time with a waste of a roster spot.
RE: Castro fans are dedicated, I'll give them that
in 2-3 years. Anyone who would take that on NOW, after letting him walk because of the length of the deal, can't see the forrest through the trees. We let one of the best hitters in the game walk because he wanted 10 years which brings him to 42. He then goes to Seattle for 4 years and we are going to bring him back at 35 years old??? How does that make any sense to anyone? There is no chance it's even a consideration.
No one disagrees IN A VACUUM. We're not in a vacuum. We have Ellsbury's horrendous contract on the books. I'd trade Castro right this second if I could. It wouldn't help the 2017 Yankees, but you better believe he's not going to be easy to move if we wait until his value drops.
You guys have to stop making it just about Cano and his contract. We would be trading them horrific contracts too.
I'd much rather eat a portion(large portion) of Ellsbury's contract
and trade him than trade for a 35 year old Cano with 6 years left on his deal.
I don't really disagree. If I could get them to take Castro too and maybe kick in a few bucks, I would do it. As much as I love Robbie Cano, I seriously doubt I would do Cano for Ellsbury straight up.
A top tier lefty bat we can put to use to split up Judge and Sanchez. A solid glove. And no more Ellsbury hanging over our heads as we pray Frazier isn't moved? Sign me up.
Gardner
Hicks
Judge
Cano
Sanchez
C. Frazier
Bird
Didi
Headley/Frazier/Andujar
A top tier lefty bat we can put to use to split up Judge and Sanchez. A solid glove. And no more Ellsbury hanging over our heads as we pray Frazier isn't moved? Sign me up.
Gardner
Hicks
Judge
Cano
Sanchez
C. Frazier
Bird
Didi
Headley/Frazier/Andujar
Imagine all the people...
I would say you're a dreamer, but you're not the only one.
RE: I'd much rather eat a portion(large portion) of Ellsbury's contract
Even as his numbers have plummeted back to earth as the season progressed.
Never mind the fact that he was playing with a fairly significant wrist injury for weeks that nobody knew about and more recently was hampered by the hammy, but still out there.
I hate having to defend Castro. I'm not even a huge fan. But he absolutely gets an incredible amount of grief on this board. He's not half as bad as two or three members of this board incessantly whine that he is.
When Greg decides he doesn't like someone, that someone will never stand a chance with him. And everyone on BBI suffers for it because Greg will never, ever, ever let it go and we will be forced to deal with his wrath every single day. He decided the day Castro was traded here that he hated the deal. So Castro will be utter garbage for all of eternity. It was actually quite nice when Castro was hitting very well earlier in the season because these guys went into hiding. But you just know they were foaming at the mouth just waiting for him to slow down so they can come back out from the weeds to kill him again. It's a strange phenomenon, really. The Castro hate.
"It was telling that Girardi preferred to have Ronald Torreyes face the right-hander Edwin Diaz in the ninth inning on Saturday, instead using the left-handed Ellsbury as a pinch-runner."
"Cashman has said in the past that Ellsbury's contract is not movable, though that was before he became a very expensive spare part."
"Consider this: The Steinbrenner family held their nose and swallowed what was left of Alex Rodriguez's contract almost a year ago, but Ellsbury isn't retiring and he is still due more than 2 1/2 times that amount."
If the Yankees traded him for Cano, Mariners would likely pick up some salary. Although, I think a pitcher for Ellsbury is more likely, if Seattle paid all but say 7M of Cano's annual salary would he worth while as a DH? 7M is a completely arbitrary # but when we traded for Arod, Texas kicked in some of the salary, so it isn't far fetched and likely for the team trading the longer of the bad contract.
is to Detroit for Verlander. His deal is roughly the same $$ as Ellsbury but ends in 2019. If Verlander is decent for 2 yrs it's a major upgrade from a useless Ellsbury clogging the OF. I doubt DET would do it.
willing to explain this in a calm and reasonable way, explain how this idea even slightly makes sense for Seattle or any other team in the sport?
Ellsbury is "only" owed 68 million, Cano is owed 144. It would strictly be about getting out from under the Cano deal before it's "unmovable". Has nothing to do with the talent involved. If they both had 3 years 68 owed the Mariners would laugh this off the table and the Yankees would pull the trigger within seconds.
I hear you but I actually don't know what will have changed for Seattle...Cano has been an all star 3 times, top 10 in mvp votes...Cano may start to age but Ellsbury was not even good before he came. At some point yeah they are paying way more but he was a 7+ WAR player last year, and the Yankees are being robbed for 85 mil by a guy worth half as many wins in 11 years as Cano has been in 4 in Seattle. Olney is a total turd.
In order to do this it probably wouldn't be straight up. They'd need Shreeve, Green or Cessa perhaps.
Yeah DET would want a young arm back. Cessa wouldn't get it done, he was already there and hasn't shown much here. One of the other 2 and/or Caleb Smith might.
Detroit is taking back Ellsbury in a Verlander deal, you're nuts.
The prospect adds on the Yankee side would need to be very significant.
Detroit sounds like they are going to damn near give Verlander away to anyone who wants to pay the contract, but they sure as hell aren't going to take back an inferior player with longer term at roughly the same annual salary.
The Cano idea was at least remotely plausible in the sense that Seattle would be shedding the last few years of commitment to Cano in exchange for taking back the far inferior player.
the Mariners are not poor. Their payroll is above where it has been and could stand to come down, but they lose Iwakuma and Gallardo and expect salary bumps for Paxton, Segura and Seager, so next year should be less anyway. They don't have the urgency to move Cano's money right now. In 2-3 years when their quasi-window closes (Felix, Paxton, Cruz decline or depart) absolutely, but for now they can shoulder it.
They're not pushing to deal him, they just would be willing should a package that makes sense to them be offered. I can't imagine they're remotely interested in Ellsbury.
Didi, Torres, and either Mateo/Machado/Andujar is the future IF and Bird hopefully.
Didi, Torres, and either Mateo/Machado/Andujar is the future IF and Bird hopefully.
Me too. Cano would be strictly a DH at some point. I can see them trading Ellsbury for a pitcher. I hope we trade Didi in a year or 2 lol.
What are you smoking tonight?
Quote:
Ellsbury , Castro, Tanaka, Andujar, Chance Adams and Headley for Cano + King Felix + an A ball flamethrower
What are you smoking tonight?
Whatever it is, it's all of it.
And as far as living in fantasy world is concerned, how about Ellsbury, Gardner, Montgomery, Adams and some cash for Gerrit Cole? The Pirates are only 3 games out, so they may not want to throw in the towel on the season (although the Cubs seem primed to take control of the division down the stretch), but this trade keeps them competitive this year while at the same time bolstering their farm for the future.
In my delusional trade the Pirates get an immediate replacement for Cole in Montgomery, a decent pitching prospect in Adams (probably overrated by Yankees fans, but who knows), and two veteran outfielders (where they are pedestrian at best) who can help them right away in the race for the division. Maybe throw in one or two more mid-level prospects to sweeten the deal (Abreau, Acevedo, Fowler, Austin, and/or Wade). Such a trade would still leave the Yankees farm system in good shape with pitchers Kaprielian, Sheffield, Tate, Littel, Schmidt, and Bauer (to name a few) and players Torres, Mateo, Andujar, and Florial (to name a few).
Cole remains the best starting pitcher (who may or may not be) available in trade and would be a game-changer addition if the Yankees could pull it off. It would give them a playoff rotation of Cole, Severino, Sabathia, and Tanaka and a bullpen of Chapman, Betances, Robertson, Kahnle, Green, and Warren. That's a pretty good pitching staff and the Yankees outfield can easily survive the loss of Gardner and Ellsbury even if Hicks is slow to return to form.
As a Baseball fan makes no sense. Hal wants under the cap. We have younger options and his contract is not friendly.
Yeah, that's the only one that made sense to me.
You mean Ells plus a prospect and some cash. Seems like the Yanks thAt should be adding.
Verlander is the far superior asset.
If it were anyone else asking, sure. Since it's you? No.
Ellsbury is "only" owed 68 million, Cano is owed 144. It would strictly be about getting out from under the Cano deal before it's "unmovable". Has nothing to do with the talent involved. If they both had 3 years 68 owed the Mariners would laugh this off the table and the Yankees would pull the trigger within seconds.
They you can factor in that Cano has been slightly underwhelming in his 4 years there. He's been solid, but overall he has not lived up to that deal, IMO. His BA and OBP have taken a bit of a hit and his power has been inconsistent. He's not going to get better over the next 6 years as father time will certainly catch up to him.
Why in the world would the Yankees trade for Cano when they let him walk over the length of a deal that brings him well past 40 years old?
Quote:
because Verlander is still effective, it'd probably be Verlander plus a prospect plus some cash, but c'est la vie.
You mean Ells plus a prospect and some cash. Seems like the Yanks thAt should be adding.
Yes exactly, my mistake.
Cano has 6 more years! He's already started to slow down as he's about to turn 35. If you think he's going to keep up even this pace for 6 more years, I have a bridge to sell you. The Yankees would be complete morons to consider this.
I think Seattle would move Cano, but I seriously doubt they would do it midseason.
Quote:
If we were gonna let Cano go and then give Ellsbury that contract the. I'd much rather have Cano. He's been much more productive than Ellsbury and will likely continue to be productive late into his career. One of the best pure hitters of this era. Plus, there's that soft spot for home grown players. Especially who could be in Cooperstown one day.
Cano has 6 more years! He's already started to slow down as he's about to turn 35. If you think he's going to keep up even this pace for 6 more years, I have a bridge to sell you. The Yankees would be complete morons to consider this.
damn right. refusing to give Cano 10 years was smart. The stupidity of signing Ellsbury to a 7 yr big $$ deal doesn't change that. The last thing they will need is Cano's fat 40 yr old ass taking up a roster spot and budget space.
They you can factor in that Cano has been slightly underwhelming in his 4 years there. He's been solid, but overall he has not lived up to that deal, IMO.
He's finished top 8 in MVP voting twice in 3 years. In the other season, he got off to a terrible start, but finished the season with a 331/387/540 second half. In 2017, Starlin Castro is having perhaps the best season of his career and his OPS+ is still lower than Cano's.
Ummm... those are 2 of the 5/6 best seasons of Cano's Hall of Fame career.
He "hit below his averages" because Safeco is consistently bottom half to bottom third of the sport in park factor hitting. He's hit more HRs on the road during his Seattle career than in Safeco.
Quote:
They you can factor in that Cano has been slightly underwhelming in his 4 years there. He's been solid, but overall he has not lived up to that deal, IMO.
He's finished top 8 in MVP voting twice in 3 years. In the other season, he got off to a terrible start, but finished the season with a 331/387/540 second half. In 2017, Starlin Castro is having perhaps the best season of his career and his OPS+ is still lower than Cano's.
Since you think comparing him to Castro is important, is there a reason you didn't add the salary differential? I'll take Castros production and contract over Canos any day of the week. I'm not sure why you threw Castro into this, but since you did, at least be fair about it
Quote:
He's hitting below his averages.
Ummm... those are 2 of the 5/6 best seasons of Cano's Hall of Fame career.
He "hit below his averages" because Safeco is consistently bottom half to bottom third of the sport in park factor hitting. He's hit more HRs on the road during his Seattle career than in Safeco.
Um, BA and OPS have little to do with the size of Safeco. Um, a larger park should net you a higher BA and then a higher OBP. Those that aren't HR's are still hits with a bigger park.
Quote:
In comment 13537420 Keith said:
Quote:
They you can factor in that Cano has been slightly underwhelming in his 4 years there. He's been solid, but overall he has not lived up to that deal, IMO.
He's finished top 8 in MVP voting twice in 3 years. In the other season, he got off to a terrible start, but finished the season with a 331/387/540 second half. In 2017, Starlin Castro is having perhaps the best season of his career and his OPS+ is still lower than Cano's.
Since you think comparing him to Castro is important, is there a reason you didn't add the salary differential? I'll take Castros production and contract over Canos any day of the week. I'm not sure why you threw Castro into this, but since you did, at least be fair about it
Agree. Not saying Castro's peak will match Cano's, but like you I'll take his "bang for the buck" any day. And he's good enoguh nd economical enough to bring backa decent return if they decide to move him and kim a kid like Mateo at 2b. Cano would be an untradeable, unmoveable blockage in the lineup with no position but DH in 2 yrs. A-Rod redux.
Quote:
In comment 13537420 Keith said:
Quote:
They you can factor in that Cano has been slightly underwhelming in his 4 years there. He's been solid, but overall he has not lived up to that deal, IMO.
He's finished top 8 in MVP voting twice in 3 years. In the other season, he got off to a terrible start, but finished the season with a 331/387/540 second half. In 2017, Starlin Castro is having perhaps the best season of his career and his OPS+ is still lower than Cano's.
Since you think comparing him to Castro is important, is there a reason you didn't add the salary differential? I'll take Castros production and contract over Canos any day of the week. I'm not sure why you threw Castro into this, but since you did, at least be fair about it
Fair about what? He's not even remotely on Cano's level and 3 of the best months of Castro's career doesn't change that fact. I don't understand why anyone would waste a single breath in defense of Castro.
More imprtantly, we're not talking about their contracts in vacuums. No one would want Cano's contract as is. However, if the Mariners take Castro and Ellsbury (combined $86+ million remaining on their deals) and kick in $7-17 million, that's a deal I would seriously consider.
Quote:
In comment 13537507 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13537420 Keith said:
Quote:
They you can factor in that Cano has been slightly underwhelming in his 4 years there. He's been solid, but overall he has not lived up to that deal, IMO.
He's finished top 8 in MVP voting twice in 3 years. In the other season, he got off to a terrible start, but finished the season with a 331/387/540 second half. In 2017, Starlin Castro is having perhaps the best season of his career and his OPS+ is still lower than Cano's.
Since you think comparing him to Castro is important, is there a reason you didn't add the salary differential? I'll take Castros production and contract over Canos any day of the week. I'm not sure why you threw Castro into this, but since you did, at least be fair about it
Fair about what? He's not even remotely on Cano's level and 3 of the best months of Castro's career doesn't change that fact. I don't understand why anyone would waste a single breath in defense of Castro.
More imprtantly, we're not talking about their contracts in vacuums. No one would want Cano's contract as is. However, if the Mariners take Castro and Ellsbury (combined $86+ million remaining on their deals) and kick in $7-17 million, that's a deal I would seriously consider.
I liked Cano when he was here, but at 35+ there is no way I'd take him for 7 yrs aat that money.
Um, BA and OPS have little to do with the size of Safeco. Um, a larger park should net you a higher BA and then a higher OBP. Those that aren't HR's are still hits with a bigger park.
Literally nothing you said here is true. There's a reason "park factors" exist and they're not opinions... they're statistically based. Since 2014 (which happens to be the season Cano joined the Mariners), it's a below average park in EVERY statistic except HRs. In HRs, it's a hair above average... that's it.
Castro's numbers have plummeted because he was one of the hottest hitters in baseball. This isn't quite being fair though.
April: .352/.398/.549
May: .301/.328/.416
June: .289/.323/.511
July: He's played in 2 games
He's had a decent May and a solid June. So while he's not one of the best hitters in all of baseball, he's still up there with the majority of 2B.
No one disagrees IN A VACUUM. We're not in a vacuum. We have Ellsbury's horrendous contract on the books. I'd trade Castro right this second if I could. It wouldn't help the 2017 Yankees, but you better believe he's not going to be easy to move if we wait until his value drops.
You guys have to stop making it just about Cano and his contract. We would be trading them horrific contracts too.
I don't really disagree. If I could get them to take Castro too and maybe kick in a few bucks, I would do it. As much as I love Robbie Cano, I seriously doubt I would do Cano for Ellsbury straight up.
Gardner
Hicks
Judge
Cano
Sanchez
C. Frazier
Bird
Didi
Headley/Frazier/Andujar
Imagine all the people...
Gardner
Hicks
Judge
Cano
Sanchez
C. Frazier
Bird
Didi
Headley/Frazier/Andujar
Imagine all the people...
me too
Never mind the fact that he was playing with a fairly significant wrist injury for weeks that nobody knew about and more recently was hampered by the hammy, but still out there.
I hate having to defend Castro. I'm not even a huge fan. But he absolutely gets an incredible amount of grief on this board. He's not half as bad as two or three members of this board incessantly whine that he is.
When Greg decides he doesn't like someone, that someone will never stand a chance with him. And everyone on BBI suffers for it because Greg will never, ever, ever let it go and we will be forced to deal with his wrath every single day. He decided the day Castro was traded here that he hated the deal. So Castro will be utter garbage for all of eternity. It was actually quite nice when Castro was hitting very well earlier in the season because these guys went into hiding. But you just know they were foaming at the mouth just waiting for him to slow down so they can come back out from the weeds to kill him again. It's a strange phenomenon, really. The Castro hate.
"Cashman has said in the past that Ellsbury's contract is not movable, though that was before he became a very expensive spare part."
"Consider this: The Steinbrenner family held their nose and swallowed what was left of Alex Rodriguez's contract almost a year ago, but Ellsbury isn't retiring and he is still due more than 2 1/2 times that amount."
If the Yankees traded him for Cano, Mariners would likely pick up some salary. Although, I think a pitcher for Ellsbury is more likely, if Seattle paid all but say 7M of Cano's annual salary would he worth while as a DH? 7M is a completely arbitrary # but when we traded for Arod, Texas kicked in some of the salary, so it isn't far fetched and likely for the team trading the longer of the bad contract.
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willing to explain this in a calm and reasonable way, explain how this idea even slightly makes sense for Seattle or any other team in the sport?
Ellsbury is "only" owed 68 million, Cano is owed 144. It would strictly be about getting out from under the Cano deal before it's "unmovable". Has nothing to do with the talent involved. If they both had 3 years 68 owed the Mariners would laugh this off the table and the Yankees would pull the trigger within seconds.
I hear you but I actually don't know what will have changed for Seattle...Cano has been an all star 3 times, top 10 in mvp votes...Cano may start to age but Ellsbury was not even good before he came. At some point yeah they are paying way more but he was a 7+ WAR player last year, and the Yankees are being robbed for 85 mil by a guy worth half as many wins in 11 years as Cano has been in 4 in Seattle. Olney is a total turd.
Yeah DET would want a young arm back. Cessa wouldn't get it done, he was already there and hasn't shown much here. One of the other 2 and/or Caleb Smith might.
The prospect adds on the Yankee side would need to be very significant.
Detroit sounds like they are going to damn near give Verlander away to anyone who wants to pay the contract, but they sure as hell aren't going to take back an inferior player with longer term at roughly the same annual salary.
The Cano idea was at least remotely plausible in the sense that Seattle would be shedding the last few years of commitment to Cano in exchange for taking back the far inferior player.