NFT: Portland involved in Melo 3 team trade per Mike Rice

broadcaster.

I would love to get ANYTHING of value in return.

Fans on Reddit are saying Rice was fired for saying wild things and has "never" broken a story. Don't shoot the messenger

and in the other thread dan posted a comment from a blazers fan on reddit saying that this broadcaster was recently fired and that he has never broke a story before. Not saying its fake, just throwing that on this thread as well.

is the quote

[�]_Quetzalcoatlus_ 17 points 7 hours ago
Blazers fan jumping in on the top comment to let y'all know: Rice is our recently fired color announcer. He was let go because he was getting old and saying some wacky shit on TV. As far as I know, he's never broken a story before.
Maybe he's right, but I would take it with a grain of salt.

he was a bit of a nut case through the years. But, I'm sure he's still connected through the team in various ways.

has broken some stories in the past and has connections within NBA offices..

Burt Steele‏ @burt_steele Jul 23
More
Inside sources have told me that Melo will 100% be a Rocket by 5:45 Tuesday evening. You heard it here first.

for a deal to be completed early this week. Multiple people have said that, of course none of them are at Woj level, but still. Plus for the knicks and rockets and whoever there really isnt much value in dragging this out. The knicks took their timeout to let Perry see what he can do and now they are going to move forward with whatever they can get. Lets just hope its at least a deal we can all stomach.

.

that Knicks would receive...

Harkless, Ariza, Qi, picks??

will be the biggest piece, Qi won't be involved. That's my prediction.

In comment 13538082 DanMetroMan said:

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will be the biggest piece, Qi won't be involved. That's my prediction.

That would be pretty disappointing all things considered. Is Harkless even a difference maker?

In comment 13538083 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

In comment 13538082 DanMetroMan said: Quote: will be the biggest piece, Qi won't be involved. That's my prediction. That would be pretty disappointing all things considered. Is Harkless even a difference maker?

Nope. He's a solid role player.

harkless, leonard, and hartenstein for a week or so now. Anything more then that and i will be pleasantly surprised.

situation

Rockets picks they can deal 2020 first
Worst 2018 2nd from Charlotte, Memphis and Miami
2020 second

So if the picks were coming from Houston the absolute best the Knicks can do in the near future is a bad 2nd round pick

Portland- Has their first, doesn't have their second, doesn't have their 2019 2nd. Has 2019 second of LAL or Wolves (the better pick)

So the best picks available (hypothetically) are Portland's 2018 pick, Portland's 2019 pick and Houston's 2020 1st (100% not suggesting the Knicks are getting 3 1sts, I wouldn't be surprised if they get none) just pointing out what is allowed to be traded.

is a guy I'd love to grab in this deal

a decent asset

That we are getting anything back, if we get Harkless, harrnstein and 1st I would be good, but I doubt we are getting a 1st

could be wrong but I find it very hard to believe the Blazers give up their 2019 1st if they are taking Ryan Anderson. I think the best we can hope for is 2020 Houston pick.

I've seen of Hartenstein is basically only wide open two handed dunks. Is he a decent prospect outside of that?

In comment 13538094 ryanmkeane said:

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I've seen of Hartenstein is basically only wide open two handed dunks. Is he a decent prospect outside of that?

Bad attitude, NBA range/size. Back concerns. Has a shot to be part of a rotation for a good NBA team. Showed some flashes in summer league. Talent alone is likely a 1st rounder but very hot and cold.

I don't mean to sh_t on him but is he that much different than a more highly paid N'Dour type i.e. very long SF who has above avg but not elite athletic ability and therefore, some defensive versatility but is a poor shooter, ball handler?

I just haven't seen him in volume so my perception may be off a bit.

Does this mean Kyrie is going to Minnesota (from his list)?

about Hartenstein I like are:

a) one of those guys with funky left handed finishing ability around the hoop (sort of the way Thaddeus Young finishes)

b) very good passing ability

thing is just annoying. We can't get ANYTHING better than than guy for melo?

don't really have anything to give to Cleveland for Kyrie that would be comparable. That's the only problem I see with that deal.

In comment 13538099 Pep22 said:

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I don't mean to sh_t on him but is he that much different than a more highly paid N'Dour type i.e. very long SF who has above avg but not elite athletic ability and therefore, some defensive versatility but is a poor shooter, ball handler? I just haven't seen him in volume so my perception may be off a bit.

He's a good athlete, strong in transitionl. He's solid at multiple things, not great at anything. If he's the guy who shot 35% from 3 he's not a bad addition, if he's the guy who shot 25% from 3 the previous 2 seasons it's not going to be good. He's not a bad player at all.

he has been a more productive NBA player then Ndour. He is an ok SF who doesnt really do anything great. Basically a solid role player who still has a bit of upside i think.

Can't expect a lot for an old scorer who played older than his birthdate would suggest and is also on the hook for $27m.

this comment isn't meant to be negative...have you watched Harkless play a lot? I get the stats. But the few times I watched Portland play this past year he literally was not a factor.

im guessing CLE doesnt give a shit about his "list". He is cost controlled for 2 more seasons. The only advantage a team on his list would have is that they might think they have a better chance of resigning him, but again that is 2 years away, a lot can change.

I think he ends up in PHX, but i think it is a dumb move for PHX.

is the actual best player we get back, we should certainly be getting some picks. Trade is essentially a salary dump if not (not necessarily a bad thing either).

In comment 13538109 Italianju said:

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he has been a more productive NBA player then Ndour. He is an ok SF who doesnt really do anything great. Basically a solid role player who still has a bit of upside i think.

big thing for me, he plays good defense, kp needs defenders and shooters around him, it is why i loke the frank pick...

In comment 13538111 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

this comment isn't meant to be negative...have you watched Harkless play a lot? I get the stats. But the few times I watched Portland play this past year he literally was not a factor.

In the NBA I haven't, but I'm an SJU alum so I know Moe's game pretty well. Blazers aren't exactly prime time viewing. Looked pretty much like the same player I remembered in college during the playoffs but his 3 ball wasn't falling. My concern would be a fluky good 2017 from 3. He did not have a good 3 ball at SJU.

has a shot to be a contributor but he's going to take some time. I think he'd be absolutely destroyed on the defensive end as a rookie. Might even be a guy you consider stashing or d/g-leaguing.

but I have a feeling he is going to make this trade even worse with his play this upcoming season (not that we have much of a choice at this point).

While flawed and aging, people might be forgetting how impactful a motivated, fit and healthy Carmelo can be.

In some of those clips playing pickup ball with Kyrie, he looked really trim and quick.

defense when the president of the team is basically calling you out 24/7, it's tough to really care about the team/direction you're on.

sas said on mike and mike, knicks willing to give up anyone except kp in deal for irving, melo to cavs real possibility

In comment 13538087 DanMetroMan said:

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situation Rockets picks they can deal 2020 first Worst 2018 2nd from Charlotte, Memphis and Miami 2020 second So if the picks were coming from Houston the absolute best the Knicks can do in the near future is a bad 2nd round pick Portland- Has their first, doesn't have their second, doesn't have their 2019 2nd. Has 2019 second of LAL or Wolves (the better pick) So the best picks available (hypothetically) are Portland's 2018 pick, Portland's 2019 pick and Houston's 2020 1st (100% not suggesting the Knicks are getting 3 1sts, I wouldn't be surprised if they get none) just pointing out what is allowed to be traded.

I would be happy with their unprotected 2020 1st round pick. You never know what can happen in a few years. Harden and co will be 3 years older and if he breaks down or misses substantial time due to injury that pick could be a lottery pick. It doesn't help the team now but it could pay off big time in the future.

In comment 13538120 Chris684 said:

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but I have a feeling he is going to make this trade even worse with his play this upcoming season (not that we have much of a choice at this point). While flawed and aging, people might be forgetting how impactful a motivated, fit and healthy Carmelo can be. In some of those clips playing pickup ball with Kyrie, he looked really trim and quick.

Yeah, but the Knicks were never gonna see that guy. He seemed all too content showing up and collecting his massive paycheck here in NY.

else the knicks are doing their best to get HOU to up their offer by leaking this CLE and OKC stuff. I said it a week or so ago, but i feel like it would be tough for Morey to sit down with Paul and Harden and say sorry we missed out on Melo but i really didnt want to include Qi.....

have to believe Houston values Qi so highly because of the Chinese market. Everything I've read agrees he's not NBA ready and may never be anything more than a role player.

It just sucks that we are over a barrel here.

I have been saying this whole time that I think Melo can impact the top % of teams in the league.

OKC, Houston, Cleveland will all look like very different teams with/without Melo. In Cleveland's case I was thinking more in addition to Kyrie but who knows.

dont they have to be shipping back (i) Harkless, plus Davis+Aminu OR Leonard?

Im basically a pass on anything Houston can offer around Anderson.

okay with trading him. Makes me sick to think that Melo gets to dictate where he will go while speaking out of both sides of his mouth. I'd rather let him rot on the bench over getting nothing in return. Teams need to stop letting players have so much power. Threaten to let him rot on the bench and I bet he opens up his list some.

and is "eager" to see him traded [another source].

Well then.
Link - ( New Window )

and there is no repairing it at this point. I am a little disappointed in Kyrie and how he's handled this situation. Immensely talented, but I'd be a little concerned trading for this guy.

In comment 13538127 nygiants16 said:

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sas said on mike and mike, knicks willing to give up anyone except kp in deal for irving, melo to cavs real possibility

Melo, Willy, Frank. Get it done!

knee is a major concern to me. Knowing our luck it won't turn out well...

thing is amazing because in reality, the Knicks can probably give the Cavs the most for Irving (not including KP). And it would give Irving a chance to come home and be the man in NY.

surgery in 2015 and still an issue in 2017? I'm a pessimist by nature but that worries me given the Knicks history with players like this.

In comment 13538157 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

surgery in 2015 and still an issue in 2017? I'm a pessimist by nature but that worries me given the Knicks history with players like this.

I don't know. He's 25 and was amazing in the playoffs this year.

will be considered a top 5 NBA player once he breaks free from LeBron. He can average close to 30 and 8 assists I'd wager.

due to LeBron's frustration with him?

Maybe LeBron pressures them to ship him out for Carmelo asap?

Melo, Frank and top 10 protected #1 for Kyrie.

LeBron and Melo make a run at GS together this year and can opt out next summer.

Knicks rebuild is underway with 4 young pieces in Kyrie, THJ, KP and Willy.

In comment 13538159 ryanmkeane said:
[quote] In comment 13538157 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


surgery in 2015 and still an issue in 2017? I'm a pessimist by nature but that worries me given the Knicks history with players like this.


I don't know. He's 25 and was amazing in the playoffs this year. [/quote

Irving himself admitted his knee bothered him late in the season and playoffs. Straight from his mouth

In comment 13538163 Chris684 said:

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due to LeBron's frustration with him? Maybe LeBron pressures them to ship him out for Carmelo asap? Melo, Frank and top 10 protected #1 for Kyrie. LeBron and Melo make a run at GS together this year and can opt out next summer. Knicks rebuild is underway with 4 young pieces in Kyrie, THJ, KP and Willy.

I'd have a heart attack if that trade happened. Would be an incredible deal for Knicks.

In comment 13538165 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13538159 ryanmkeane said: [quote] In comment 13538157 DanMetroMan said: Quote: surgery in 2015 and still an issue in 2017? I'm a pessimist by nature but that worries me given the Knicks history with players like this. I don't know. He's 25 and was amazing in the playoffs this year. [/quote Irving himself admitted his knee bothered him late in the season and playoffs. Straight from his mouth

I didn't realize that stuff with his knee. Something to monitor..crazy to think he was as good as he was with those issues

That everyone on the board is predicting in a deal to send Melo to Houston, why trade him at all. The team will stink with him or without him this season.

Keep him and see if there are better offers near the trade deadline or let him opt out at the end of the season and pick up the significant cap space.

It's frustrating to read about Melo like he is a 40 year old has been. Guy is still one of the top pier scorers in the league, and as a second or third option on a Houston or Cleveland, he'd be lethal.

Knicks should feel no pressure to make a deal unless it makes the team better in the future (aka quality young players and/or picks).

In comment 13538162 ryanmkeane said:

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will be considered a top 5 NBA player once he breaks free from LeBron. He can average close to 30 and 8 assists I'd wager.

#Cavs Kyrie Irving said his knee is bothering him and when asked if he needs a day of rest he said, "I don't know"
� Chris Fedor (@ChrisFedor) April 8, 2017

Adande
Kyrie said his knee wasn�t right late in season. He�s been banged up in playoffs, too https://twitter.com/jonesonthenba/status/871547440607789057 �

Nate Jones

Kyrie looks a step slow. I've heard he isn't healthy as he was last year at this time and I'm starting to believe it.

Kyrie had a broken bone, I wouldn't be too concerned with long term effects.

In comment 13538148 Keith said:

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and there is no repairing it at this point. I am a little disappointed in Kyrie and how he's handled this situation. Immensely talented, but I'd be a little concerned trading for this guy.

I don't blame Irving for wanting to get out. He knows LBJ is gone next summer. You think he wants to stick around with the mess that Cleveland will be after this season? Hell no. I'd be looking to bounce too.

Cleveland from just not doing anything and keeping Kyrie?

In comment 13538184 ryanmkeane said:

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Cleveland from just not doing anything and keeping Kyrie?

Nothing, but if GM Lebron wants him gone, he's gone.

In comment 13538154 ryanmkeane said:

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thing is amazing because in reality, the Knicks can probably give the Cavs the most for Irving (not including KP). And it would give Irving a chance to come home and be the man in NY.

Suns can easily outbid us IMO. Jackson, Bledsoe, Chriss, Bender, Chandler are all interesting assets.

In comment 13538182 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

In comment 13538148 Keith said: Quote: and there is no repairing it at this point. I am a little disappointed in Kyrie and how he's handled this situation. Immensely talented, but I'd be a little concerned trading for this guy. I don't blame Irving for wanting to get out. He knows LBJ is gone next summer. You think he wants to stick around with the mess that Cleveland will be after this season? Hell no. I'd be looking to bounce too.

And yet the Knicks are on his list.

Then even more leverage for the Knicks if true.

Still, I'd rather take what seems to be a minor risk on Kyrie's knee than deal Melo for Houston or Portland's trash.

All things considered the deal I proposed above seems pretty fair.

Cleveland walks away with Carmelo Anthony, a top 10 prospect from this year's draft and a potential #1 in next year's draft.

In comment 13538189 widmerseyebrow said:

Quote:

In comment 13538184 ryanmkeane said: Quote: Cleveland from just not doing anything and keeping Kyrie? Nothing, but if GM Lebron wants him gone, he's gone.

I suspect GM LeBron is dead without a commitment to say in CLE

You think they can keep him around?"

because he's from NJ.

In comment 13538200 Keith said:

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You think they can keep him around?"

Lebron actually said/tweeted that? Or is it just hearsay from SAS?

In comment 13538203 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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because he's from NJ.

It also gives him a chance to start fresh/be the man in the best market in the country. Decent building pieces as well.

LeBron wants one more go at it before opting out, Melo is the best player he can get for Kyrie. Simple as that.

Given that the Knicks now have a GM with some skill and rep around the game, what are the odds that there might be subsequent trades lined up for whomever the Knicks get in the Anthony deal?

In general, when a team is over the cap, they cannot trade a player acquired in a trade together with another player for 2 months- though they can trade the player by himself in a deal.

on what the Knicks might want in return.

If Melo waives his trade kicker, the following COULD work financially.

NY sends Melo to Houston

Houston sends Anderson to Portland

Houston sends Ariza and Black to NY, with their 2020 1st rounder.

Portland sends Aminu, Davis and Vonleh, and their 1st rounder next year to NY.

The Knicks get 2 picks, and all expirings- except Aminu- who is on a 2 year deal at about $7M per.

dream deal

In comment 13538221 rich in DC said:

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on what the Knicks might want in return. If Melo waives his trade kicker, the following COULD work financially. NY sends Melo to Houston Houston sends Anderson to Portland Houston sends Ariza and Black to NY, with their 2020 1st rounder. Portland sends Aminu, Davis and Vonleh, and their 1st rounder next year to NY. The Knicks get 2 picks, and all expirings- except Aminu- who is on a 2 year deal at about $7M per.

why is Portland doing that? By all accounts, Anderson has negative value at this point.

Houston doesnt have enough assets to be rid of Anderson's contract, let alone pay positive value for Melo.

If Melo goes to HOU in an Anderson-centered deal, Morey ripped off someone. We can talk about the Chinese kid, the German kid etc. -- doesnt matter. None are fair value in a trade like this.

to get rid of Anderson and Portland most likely will be getting a pick to take him on. I'm guessing the Knicks will get Harkless, a young player and salary cap relief. Portland will get Anderson and a pick. Houston will get Melo. So something like:

Knicks trade Melo
Knicks get Harkless, Ariza, Hartenstein, Ed Davis

Houston trades Anderson, Ariza, Hartenstein, future pick
Houston gets Melo

Portland trades Harkless, Ed Davis
Portland gets Anderson, fiture pick from Houston

In comment 13538250 Deej said:

Quote:

Houston doesnt have enough assets to be rid of Anderson's contract, let alone pay positive value for Melo.

this is the whole thing in a nutshell - and the main reason the Knicks should walk away.

I'm not even talking about his ability to play bball either. The Knicks need to rid themselves of Melo so that we can actually build something with the youth we have. Let the coach actually have some pull with the players(no coach ever has clout with Melo as Melo has run so many out) and let the team build around KP, Willy and the youth.

makes sense for the Knicks. The only salaries after this year are Harkless(reasonable) and Hartenstein(makes nothing). All of the guys could end up having trade value at the deadline too, so it's possible to add more assets later on. So we rid ourselves of this anchor, we add youth, we get salary cap relief. Done.

also likely costs them a few extra games next year, so hopefully they keep their 1st and are picking top 5.

KP/Willy/Frank/top 5 pick could turn into a nice core and potentially draw a top FA in a few years (when Noah and a few others are off the books).

is bloated based on both years and $$. But he is a useful player (unlike say, Joachim Noah). I fail to see how this is an immovable object given other contracts discussed w/ these three teams.

In comment 13538275 Pep22 said:

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is bloated based on both years and $$. But he is a useful player (unlike say, Joachim Noah). I fail to see how this is an immovable object given other contracts discussed w/ these three teams.

Almost nothing is immovable if you add assets to sweeten the pot, but nobody was lining up to take Anderson. We are lucky that Portland showed interest.

has made it clear that he has no interest in going to camp with the Knicks. As you get closer to camp or the start of the season, I bet his list of preferred teams expands. Already we've seen smoke around OKC of all places.

In comment 13538240 Enzo said:

Quote:

In comment 13538221 rich in DC said: Quote: on what the Knicks might want in return. If Melo waives his trade kicker, the following COULD work financially. NY sends Melo to Houston Houston sends Anderson to Portland Houston sends Ariza and Black to NY, with their 2020 1st rounder. Portland sends Aminu, Davis and Vonleh, and their 1st rounder next year to NY. The Knicks get 2 picks, and all expirings- except Aminu- who is on a 2 year deal at about $7M per. why is Portland doing that? By all accounts, Anderson has negative value at this point.

Anderson is a great fit on Portland. They have a massive gap at the 4 and he can stretch the floor for them.

In comment 13538289 Enzo said:

Quote:

has made it clear that he has no interest in going to camp with the Knicks. As you get closer to camp or the start of the season, I bet his list of preferred teams expands. Already we've seen smoke around OKC of all places.

OKC has even fewer assets than the Rockets

not pay him if he didn't report to camp? Seems like a terrible bluff by Carmelo's camp if true.

In comment 13538290 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

In comment 13538240 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 13538221 rich in DC said: Quote: on what the Knicks might want in return. If Melo waives his trade kicker, the following COULD work financially. NY sends Melo to Houston Houston sends Anderson to Portland Houston sends Ariza and Black to NY, with their 2020 1st rounder. Portland sends Aminu, Davis and Vonleh, and their 1st rounder next year to NY. The Knicks get 2 picks, and all expirings- except Aminu- who is on a 2 year deal at about $7M per. why is Portland doing that? By all accounts, Anderson has negative value at this point. Anderson is a great fit on Portland. They have a massive gap at the 4 and he can stretch the floor for them.

Teams are telling Houston they want two #1s for Anderson. It's unrealistic to think Portland is just going to accept him into their roster/cap without expecting assets in return. The above trade has them sending out assets.

Mine was excellent.

In comment 13538302 Keith said:

Quote:

Mine was excellent.

What was my trade idea?

Missed u kmed

it was rich's idea.

that RA adds value to Portland. Is it 19mm in value? No, but if they can ease their pain by unloading a portion of their ridiculous $$ versus production allocated to the small forward position (36mm a year with Turner, MH, AFA) or even succeed in throwing in ML, it makes sense for Portland.

Knicks challenge is obvious (get Harkless or AFA and try to avoid poisonous deals).

In terms of the crappiest deals mentioned in this trade ordeal, I'd rank the following worst to best:

1 Turner

2 Anderson

3 Eric Gordon (he'd get hurt about 5 minutes after the Knicks got him)

4 Leonard

In comment 13538296 Metnut said:

Quote:

not pay him if he didn't report to camp? Seems like a terrible bluff by Carmelo's camp if true.

there's a subtle difference between him communicating that he wants a trade before the season and him threatening a hold-out. I don't think anyone is at that point yet.

Harkless and Leonard, adding Anderson really isn't that bad. It's basically a wash salary wise and a much better player.

take Irving in ONE second but I think he's becoming ridiculously overrated by Knicks fans. He's nowhere near a top 5 player in the NBA. He was 8th among PG's in PER, 23rd overall. I find it hard to believe anyone would really have him near their top 5.

are a combined 20M and both set to expire in summer 2020. Anderson is the same. If I'm Portland that's a good option to improve the team and maybe make some playoff noise as a 5-6 seed.

Houston can't because the salaries won't match. Knicks certainly aren't....or shouldn't. I think Portland is going to be trading Harkless and pieces and getting Anderson and a pick.

In comment 13538341 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

take Irving in ONE second but I think he's becoming ridiculously overrated by Knicks fans. He's nowhere near a top 5 player in the NBA. He was 8th among PG's in PER, 23rd overall. I find it hard to believe anyone would really have him near their top 5.

One person expressed that opinion, and you're attributing it to all Knicks fans? You actually do that a lot.

In comment 13538344 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13538341 DanMetroMan said: Quote: take Irving in ONE second but I think he's becoming ridiculously overrated by Knicks fans. He's nowhere near a top 5 player in the NBA. He was 8th among PG's in PER, 23rd overall. I find it hard to believe anyone would really have him near their top 5. One person expressed that opinion, and you're attributing it to all Knicks fans? You actually do that a lot.

Nope. I'm being told on twitter he's 10 "easily" but okay then.

In comment 13538341 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

take Irving in ONE second but I think he's becoming ridiculously overrated by Knicks fans. He's nowhere near a top 5 player in the NBA. He was 8th among PG's in PER, 23rd overall. I find it hard to believe anyone would really have him near their top 5.

Outside of Russ he's the best scoring PG in the game. I don't think he's overrated at all. He's a #1 pick who is the best offensive player/scorer on the court in almost any game he plays if he's on another team.

Replying to @NYintheMileHigh @tylernuggets25 and 2 others
Jokic had potential but time will tell! Kyrie is a proven scorer and a champion! Kyrie is a top 10 player, Jokic maybe top 30


Daniel M‏ @DanielM2k2020 21h21 hours ago
More
Replying to @FredoDGawd @NYSportsGuys5
Kyrie Irving is a top 5 point guard in the NBA and a top 10 player

Renan‏ @JulioMostDope Jul 23
More
Kyrie Irving is top 10 player in the NBA right now.. And yes better than John Wall


Rick ⛹🏾‏ @1Rickedson Jul 21
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Kyrie Irving is a top 10 player in the NBA. His slander will not be tolerated!

is 25...is there anyone in the league 25 and under outside of Anthony Davis you'd rather have? Maybe Towns

In comment 13538346 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

In comment 13538341 DanMetroMan said: Quote: take Irving in ONE second but I think he's becoming ridiculously overrated by Knicks fans. He's nowhere near a top 5 player in the NBA. He was 8th among PG's in PER, 23rd overall. I find it hard to believe anyone would really have him near their top 5. Outside of Russ he's the best scoring PG in the game. I don't think he's overrated at all. He's a #1 pick who is the best offensive player/scorer on the court in almost any game he plays if he's on another team.

All due respect he's not a top 5 player c'mon.

Lebron
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Leonard
Curry
Anthony Davis
Towns
Greek Freak
Wall
Cousins

Without thinking twice

over Wall in a heartbeat

i said Irving will be in the discussion once he leaves Cleveland. With LeBron handling the ball a lot of the time, he can't be the guy

fandom talking...I love Irving. Do you guys remember him in the finals last year? Best player on the court in a few of those games

much harder than it should be.. I think im starting to understand what its like being a Jets fan.

The Knicks gain more leverage each time Melo says how much he doesn't want to have anything to do with the Knicks.

Fine, just wait until he expands the options to where he will play.

He gets the ball plenty. Which makes it all the more weird that he wants to leave. He has never lacked for shots and opportunities.

In comment 13538352 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13538346 ryanmkeane said: Quote: In comment 13538341 DanMetroMan said: Quote: take Irving in ONE second but I think he's becoming ridiculously overrated by Knicks fans. He's nowhere near a top 5 player in the NBA. He was 8th among PG's in PER, 23rd overall. I find it hard to believe anyone would really have him near their top 5. Outside of Russ he's the best scoring PG in the game. I don't think he's overrated at all. He's a #1 pick who is the best offensive player/scorer on the court in almost any game he plays if he's on another team. All due respect he's not a top 5 player c'mon. Lebron Durant Westbrook Harden Leonard Curry Anthony Davis Towns Greek Freak Wall Cousins Without thinking twice

You'd take Cousins over Kyrie without thinking twice?

he is top 13 or whatever. Does that really matter? I mean one guy here said top 5 and some people on twitter. And we know the people on twitter are always very level headed educated fans.

I think you could make an argument for him over wall (id take wall) but its also hard to gauge because he has played on a team with Lebron. Pretty much every "star" who has played with lebron has seen his numbers decrease some. If irving was the alpha on his team he might be considered better then wall.

was there. Then Durant left and look what he did. Let me be clear here, I AM NOT SAYING IRVING IS ANYWHERE NEAR RW, it is just an example. Dont need any "Knick fans think Irving is better then westbrook...."

me you are in the severe minority of anyone who thinks Irving is top 5 or will be a top 5 player in the NBA. What difference does 25 vs. 26 make? Leonard is 26 you are taking Irving over him? Jokic is 22, Davis is 24, Towns is 21. Coming into the 2017 seasons CNNSI ranked Irving 25th in the NBA, ESPN 15th.

is a lunatic so I'd take Irving for that reason but if Cousins were not a lunatic yes, without thinking twice. Guy is LEGIT top 5 player in the NBA in terms of talent.

is a great offensive player who can thrive even more than he already has if he can be the main ball handler. He's essentially a combo wing player for the cavs. He's not the PG.

you're considering Jokic over Irving? C'mon man...

Adam Zagoria‏Verified account @AdamZagoria 3m3 minutes ago
Knicks now at 3/1 to land @KyrieIrving per @BovadaLV

That is the best odds of any team (best odds overall still have him staying in CLE)

Creates potential for the rare stroke of luck for the Knicks.

If they can somehow capitalize on LeBron's friendship/comfort level with Melo and not have to send Cleveland an overwhelming package (admittedly Phoenix can offer more), this could be a real turning point for the Knicks.

Assuming a top 10 protected pick is also a part of the deal, what would you rather have?

Kyrie or Frank + garbage from Portland or Houston?

a continuation of the "top 5" argument but any reason why Irving graded so poorly defensively in 2017? Curry was #1 among guards, Irving... 82. THjr was actually #19

Irving plays next to zero defense.

In comment 13538374 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

you're considering Jokic over Irving? C'mon man...

C'mon man? Jokic age 21 season 17 and 10 with 5 assists, 1 block, 1 steal .228 WS/48. He had an absolutely MONSTER season and no reason to believe he's a fluke. He was 9th in the league in WS/48, 8th in PER. He looked like a potential MVP caliber player going forward. What is "C'mon man" about it. You said Irving is a top 5 player away from Lebron. He's just not.

In comment 13538384 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13538374 ryanmkeane said: Quote: you're considering Jokic over Irving? C'mon man... C'mon man? Jokic age 21 season 17 and 10 with 5 assists, 1 block, 1 steal .228 WS/48. He had an absolutely MONSTER season and no reason to believe he's a fluke. He was 9th in the league in WS/48, 8th in PER. He looked like a potential MVP caliber player going forward. What is "C'mon man" about it. You said Irving is a top 5 player away from Lebron. He's just not.

i would take jokic over irving in a second...

actually ranked just behind Middleton, that's pretty shocking. Spoelstra must be doing something right. Tyler Johnson, Josh Richardson and Dion Waiters were all top 14 at the position defensively and Goran Dragic a non-pathetic 30th among guards.

In comment 13538352 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13538346 ryanmkeane said: Quote: In comment 13538341 DanMetroMan said: Quote: take Irving in ONE second but I think he's becoming ridiculously overrated by Knicks fans. He's nowhere near a top 5 player in the NBA. He was 8th among PG's in PER, 23rd overall. I find it hard to believe anyone would really have him near their top 5. Outside of Russ he's the best scoring PG in the game. I don't think he's overrated at all. He's a #1 pick who is the best offensive player/scorer on the court in almost any game he plays if he's on another team. All due respect he's not a top 5 player c'mon. Lebron Durant Westbrook Harden Leonard Curry Anthony Davis Towns Greek Freak Wall Cousins Without thinking twice

I take Irving over Wall and Cousins, but at that point its just nitpicking. The guy is in the top 10-15 range of players in the league.

I disagree there.

In comment 13538378 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

a continuation of the "top 5" argument but any reason why Irving graded so poorly defensively in 2017? Curry was #1 among guards, Irving... 82. THjr was actually #19

seems like the Cavs collectively coasted for much of the regular season last year. Was Irving any better in previous years? If not, then maybe he's just a poor/unmotivated defender.

and Winslow #2 best forward defensively, James Johnson #15. Whiteside "surprisingly" only #10. But you can see why the Heat are so strong defensively despite not having "names". Lets copy whatever they do. Thanks.

but i think defensive metrics still leave a lot to be desired. We have all seen guys who look like crap defenders somehow rank high vice versa. Now im not sure irving is that bad, but he is def worse then most. If you get irving you pair him with an elite defender at SG (you know not JR smith).

If you can get Irving without giving KP u do it. I don't care what contracts come back. Then you evaluate you team. If not, hello Houston I guess.

of winslow's right? ANd im not saying he didnt deserve it, but he did only play 18 games last year.

i meant to say that Irving IS A BAD defender. No idea why i typed is not.

In comment 13538397 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

If you can get Irving without giving KP u do it. I don't care what contracts come back. Then you evaluate you team. If not, hello Houston I guess.

That's my thinking

In comment 13538393 Enzo said:

Quote:

In comment 13538378 DanMetroMan said: Quote: a continuation of the "top 5" argument but any reason why Irving graded so poorly defensively in 2017? Curry was #1 among guards, Irving... 82. THjr was actually #19 seems like the Cavs collectively coasted for much of the regular season last year. Was Irving any better in previous years? If not, then maybe he's just a poor/unmotivated defender.

2015-2016 he ranked 59th, Curry was #1 that season as well. It's almost understated how good Curry is since "nobody" talks about his defense.

In comment 13538398 Italianju said:

Quote:

of winslow's right? ANd im not saying he didnt deserve it, but he did only play 18 games last year.

It's his only skill, no doubt. Just saying "at least" he has that to fall back on. If you shoot 35% from the field, 20% from 3 you better be an animal defensively.

Parker grades out shockingly well in terms of defensive winshares despite his advanced age. That's probably impacted by the Spurs team defensive right? We'll see how it works out but THjr ranked neck and neck with Simmons defensively and obviously THjr is the superior offensive talent (and younger)

Ian Begley‏ @IanBegley 28m28 minutes ago
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Ian Begley Retweeted Atlanta Hawks
Ex-Knicks assistant coach Josh Longstaff has been named head coach of the Hawks' D League team:

which is MVP candidate, and top 10, which usually means top 12-15 or so.

is pretty awesome, never realized it. They have EVERY stat you can think of.
Link - ( New Window )

TODAY. A MIN contract will do the trick. PG choices, both on the current roster and available, are so slim. Cook is a good defender and had improved dramatically on O since Duke. I'd consider him to be a very solid 15 minute a game point guard.

21/5/4 in SL on 56/50/90 shooting

only 1.7 drives per game, that's pretty low when you see Durant 4.0, Anthony Davis 3.5, Blake Griffin 4.0, Towns 3.0.

In comment 13538427 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

only 1.7 drives per game, that's pretty low when you see Durant 4.0, Anthony Davis 3.5, Blake Griffin 4.0, Towns 3.0.

He played with Melo and has yet to play with an NBA caliber facilitator at lead guard. Two major constraints to floor spacing and good offense right there.

last year he seemed way to content to take threes and mid range jumpers all game.

Steele with a cryptic tweet seemingly implying something is going down.

what did he say?

Burt Steele‏ @burt_steele 3m3 minutes ago
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👀

In comment 13538446 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

what did he say?

Quote:

Burt Steele‏ @burt_steele Following More 👀

(no not kidding)

Isnt the premise that you move without the ball and receive a pass when in a position to score?

In comment 13538455 Deej said:

Quote:

Isnt the premise that you move without the ball and receive a pass when in a position to score?

Garbage Derrick Rose was among the league leaders in drives (11th in the league)

In comment 13538432 Pep22 said:

Quote:

In comment 13538427 DanMetroMan said: Quote: only 1.7 drives per game, that's pretty low when you see Durant 4.0, Anthony Davis 3.5, Blake Griffin 4.0, Towns 3.0. He played with Melo and has yet to play with an NBA caliber facilitator at lead guard. Two major constraints to floor spacing and good offense right there.

That, plus he was shooting an even 40% from 3 last year until January. He should have been shooting from range.

has to be one of the more obnoxious.....haha

To figure out tweets.

Baker, Chasson Randle, Courtney Lee, Brandon Jennings all averaged more drives per game than KP

For Kyrie. (Grin)

.

In comment 13538459 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 13538432 Pep22 said: Quote: In comment 13538427 DanMetroMan said: Quote: only 1.7 drives per game, that's pretty low when you see Durant 4.0, Anthony Davis 3.5, Blake Griffin 4.0, Towns 3.0. He played with Melo and has yet to play with an NBA caliber facilitator at lead guard. Two major constraints to floor spacing and good offense right there. That, plus he was shooting an even 40% from 3 last year until January. He should have been shooting from range.

I dunno. 3.8 FTA per game is really, really low. I don't think that's ideal especially for a guy who can shoot them so well.

Not shocking that he doesn't drive more; not saying it shouldn't improve, but he sure doesn't look great when he drives at present.

In comment 13538370 Italianju said:

Quote:

was there. Then Durant left and look what he did. Let me be clear here, I AM NOT SAYING IRVING IS ANYWHERE NEAR RW, it is just an example. Dont need any "Knick fans think Irving is better then westbrook...."

It's a fun discussion, and I'm not trying to get on anybody in here for their opinion, but there's a lot you can say about this.

Westbrook had an all-time great individual season, but that's clearly not the way you want to go about playing 82 games or gameplanning that way to win a title. Russ couldn't even take a five minute breather because the team would fall apart any time he wasn't on the court. Even if the team around him was good you wouldn't want to rely on that so much.

I have no doubt Kyrie could win a scoring title if he just took the ball and ran it up the court, but that isn't really what Knicks fans are hoping to accomplish. At least, that's not what the backlash against Melo has indicated the last couple of years.

If the goal is the build a team from the foundation up and develop young players, seems like you'd really need to find a player that plays defense and is just as concerned with passing as he is scoring.

In comment 13538456 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13538455 Deej said: Quote: Isnt the premise that you move without the ball and receive a pass when in a position to score? Garbage Derrick Rose was among the league leaders in drives (11th in the league)

Garbage Derrick Rose didnt play the offense. Also, he's an elite drive guy. Even in the triangle, I expect explosive guards to drive. KP is a different story.

In comment 13538480 yatqb said:

Quote:

Not shocking that he doesn't drive more; not saying it shouldn't improve, but he sure doesn't look great when he drives at present.

I'm just saying he's more athletic than Frank Kaminsky and Olynyk, no reason guys like that should be driving more than him. I'm 0% knocking KP at all. I love KP. Just think if/when he takes the next step he'll get to the basket more and shoot more FT's.

twitter account has like 400 followers...smells like bullshit to me

with his back to the basket compared to some of those other guys? Not as easy to drive from the "pinch post" or down on the block.

In comment 13538488 elisha2014 said:

Quote:

twitter account has like 400 followers...smells like bullshit to me

He apparently had a previous account. Back in 2015 he supposedly had the Ed Reed/Texans stuff before the media and if you believe his twitter feed was given tickets by Morey. That said, if he's friends with Morey why is he going behind his friends back and leaking stuff?

"3rd team" update

Bobby Marks‏Verified account @BobbyMarks42 24s25 seconds ago
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Teams with available cap space:

BKN $16.5M
PHI $15.1M
PHX $10.5M
ATL $9.6M
IND $5.6M
SAC $4.3M
DEN $2.7M
ORL $1.3M
LAL .815K

Or have you successfully kicked the habit? lol.

Knicks-esque to trade Melo for hot garbage as soon as Kyrie becomes available.

In comment 13538497 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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Or have you successfully kicked the habit? lol.

All he's been tweeting about is Kyrie Irving and fighting with @oldtakesexposed

In comment 13538500 elisha2014 said:

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Knicks-esque to trade Melo for hot garbage as soon as Kyrie becomes available.

Assuming Melo has any value to Cleveland.. which I dont believe he will have a high value as he is effectively a power forward now..

In comment 13538148 Keith said:

Quote:

and there is no repairing it at this point. I am a little disappointed in Kyrie and how he's handled this situation. Immensely talented, but I'd be a little concerned trading for this guy.

I'm more concerned with Kyrie's lack of defense. He's not a great player. He's a good to very good guard that can score with the best of them. Problem is the opposing guard will score too.

The optics are weird but Lebron is a weird dude too. Who knows what went on behind the scenes. Some are saying that Lebron started crafting trade ideas that included Kyrie without Kyrie's knowledge. Can't say I blame the guy if that's so.

In comment 13538151 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

In comment 13538127 nygiants16 said: Quote: sas said on mike and mike, knicks willing to give up anyone except kp in deal for irving, melo to cavs real possibility Melo, Willy, Frank. Get it done!

No thanks. Melo and one. Not two.

Insanity. We have enough Dook garbage already.

In comment 13538397 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

If you can get Irving without giving KP u do it. I don't care what contracts come back. Then you evaluate you team. If not, hello Houston I guess.

That's a crazy way to conduct team building.

The thought of the Knicks getting Irving does indeed excite me, but slow the hell down guys. This is not a transcendent player here. IRving is a good player. Maybe even a very very good player. He's not a great player. He doesn't play much defense and that's such an overlooked aspect of guard play. He'd be a definite upgrade and possibly could be a boon to KP's development. He could also be a weird selfish player that hinder's KP and does more harm than good here. We have seen this before.

You don't give up every young resource the Knicks possess for this guy. No fucking way.

In comment 13538560 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

Insanity. We have enough Dook garbage already.

Who cares about where he went to school and some stupid aversion to an obvious upgrade...all because you like UNC?

Based on the impressions of a few posters you'd think people are confusing him with Lebron.

In comment 13538551 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 13538151 ryanmkeane said: Quote: In comment 13538127 nygiants16 said: Quote: sas said on mike and mike, knicks willing to give up anyone except kp in deal for irving, melo to cavs real possibility Melo, Willy, Frank. Get it done! No thanks. Melo and one. Not two.

You have to do that in a heartbeat. Getting Kyrie without trading KP or future 1sts is a grand slam. Also theres zero chance that gets it done.

Kyrie has his flaws but he is an elite shooter- with the ball or off the ball. Lebron good luck finding another PG capabale of that. Drose will be clogging that lane up.

In comment 13538571 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

Based on the impressions of a few posters you'd think people are confusing him with Lebron.

HE's a former first pick who has put up some eye popping stats while winning an NBA title. And he plays a position the KNicks sorely lack. I get why some fans are going bananas over this guy but I always go back to defense. If IRving played D like a poor man's Gary Payton ok fine, do whatever it takes to get him, but he doesn't. He's probably not awful on D but he's not known for his D either.

I'd love to get him but not at all costs. He's simply not THAT good. This isn't Kobe redux.

.

would rather give up frank (willy) over the future draft pick.

I'd give up a pick or two. I am not giving them Frank and Willy. Future picks carry less weight than rookie talents. Frank was picked 8th and nearly everyone had this guy pegged as a top ten talent. Don't trade that away if you can deal a future pick instead.

Melo plus one legit young asset. Not two. Fuck LEbron and the Cavs. Don't like it? Fish elsewhere. I might do Frank and a future protected pick but even that bothers me a lot.

Melo, Willy and a future pick...ok fine.

Blazers clearing cap - maybe this Melo deal will actually go down today

if they choose...one would speculate this is a precursor to the Melo 3 way

Give me what resource we possess? Willy and Frank? Cleveland would laugh.

Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account
@wojespn
Following
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Portland has traded Allen Crabbe to Brooklyn for Andrew Nicholson, league sources tell ESPN.

I want the worst record in basketball this season.

Three hours....

this allows:

NYK gives: Melo;
Gets: Harkless, Hartenstein

HOU gives: RA, IH
Gets: Melo

Portland gives: Mo
Gets: RA

that simple I suppose

In comment 13538582 Pep22 said:

Quote:

if they choose...one would speculate this is a precursor to the Melo 3 way

But they are still way over the cap. This doesn't create 19 mill in cap room, just sheds Crabbe's contract.

This is purely a salary dump. Teams had to wait a full year from when the Nets signed Crabbe last year.

nicholson was dead cap space for 3 more years and not a useful player.

crabbe they clearly wanted last year---

so i guess they are done now... long athletic, and without much size!

get out of that trade?

In comment 13538576 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 13538571 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: Based on the impressions of a few posters you'd think people are confusing him with Lebron. HE's a former first pick who has put up some eye popping stats while winning an NBA title. And he plays a position the KNicks sorely lack. I get why some fans are going bananas over this guy but I always go back to defense. If IRving played D like a poor man's Gary Payton ok fine, do whatever it takes to get him, but he doesn't. He's probably not awful on D but he's not known for his D either. I'd love to get him but not at all costs. He's simply not THAT good. This isn't Kobe redux.

I would never argue that he's not a world class scorer. He is. But he's not a "sell the house and worry about it later" type of player. He's not carrying KP and a bunch of anonymous players anywhere. Lebron James can't get five minutes of rest time in serious playoff basketball because the Cavs fall apart any time he's not on the floor. Kyrie gets a share of that blame.

In comment 13538598 TyreeHelmet said:

Quote:

In comment 13538582 Pep22 said: Quote: if they choose...one would speculate this is a precursor to the Melo 3 way But they are still way over the cap. This doesn't create 19 mill in cap room, just sheds Crabbe's contract. This is purely a salary dump. Teams had to wait a full year from when the Nets signed Crabbe last year.

This saves Portland 60 mill between luxury tax and Crabbe's salary.

Crabbe also agreed to waive his trade kicker worth 6mill. Why would he do that?

Is going to Portland in Melo deal with Knicks taking back harkless and aminou and fillers does that add up and Portland taking Anderson? I think this fits, but could be wrong

all along. That's why he waived his trade kicker. I'm sure it has to do with teh culture.

solid move for both sides. Crabbe has about $56M left on his deal and Nicholson had $19M left, same term. So Nets basically absorbed $11M per year for Crabbe. Not bad as long as he comes back from the injury without issues. Will probably end up taking over the starting SF spot from Carroll at some point.

Crabbe and Harkless for Anderson is a little much just to be the third wheel to get Melo to Houston.

The question is.....would this trade have happened without the Melo discussions? If not, then obviously this is the precursor.

In comment 13538610 Keith said:

Quote:

all along. That's why he waived his trade kicker. I'm sure it has to do with teh culture.

guys just giving away money to play with the nets--- all culture all the time! haha

Joe Freeman ✔ @BlazerFreeman
The Blazers have moved the deadline in which they must guarantee Pat Connaughton's 2017-18 contract from tomorrow at 2 p.m. to Aug. 31.
10:00 PM - 24 Jul 2017
48 48 Retweets 105 105 likes

Side note on Connaughton, there are people who believe he could be a big league pitcher if he goes back to baseball

and the Blazers are taking care of some housekeeping to accommodate the Andersen contract.

::sweat smile::

til Burt Steele's deadline...

In comment 13538583 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

Give me what resource we possess? Willy and Frank? Cleveland would laugh.

then let them laugh. Melo, Willy and a pick? Fine...maybe...but giving them 2-3 young chips and MElo? Fuck off.

for a Kyrie Irving. You want him, sure. You try and get him without obliterating any future building. Melo, Willy and a pick ok fine. Even that's a lot but I could live with selling high on Willy. He may be Marc Gasol or he may be a JAG but he was only a second round pick and the Knicks could at least tell themselves they cultivated a 2nd round pick and turned that into a 25 year old all star. It's asset mgmt we could all live with.

But he doesn't make the players around him better. It's like trading in your old Melo for a new one.

Kyrie and KP to start a rebuild I (and most) would think was a very successful offseason. Frenchie is a prospect not a guarantee.

In comment 13538110 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

Can't expect a lot for an old scorer who played older than his birthdate would suggest and is also on the hook for $27m.

The amount of ink spent here at BBI on Melo a visitor from another planet would confuse him with Lebron.

In comment 13538702 djm said:

Quote:

for a Kyrie Irving. You want him, sure. You try and get him without obliterating any future building. Melo, Willy and a pick ok fine. Even that's a lot but I could live with selling high on Willy. He may be Marc Gasol or he may be a JAG but he was only a second round pick and the Knicks could at least tell themselves they cultivated a 2nd round pick and turned that into a 25 year old all star. It's asset mgmt we could all live with.

Agree with point #1 -- just because you want a player doesnt mean you give up everything other than KP. It's madness.

I'd rather keep what we have, lose Melo, and get a high pick, than trade a lot for Kyrie. Basically, I'll give Frank, Willy, or a #1. Not 2 of them and not 3. If that doesnt get me Kyrie, I can live with that. I want Kyrie as a value play, not because I think KP and Kyrie is a title core.

worry of Brandon Knight coming to the Knicks now, Torn ACL for him.

Burt meant eastern standard time or central time?

.

Did someone speak too soon on a Melo deal???

In comment 13538804 adamg said:

Quote:

Did someone speak too soon on a Melo deal???

Just proves people will believe anything on twitter.

In comment 13538719 Jim in Fairfax said:

Quote:

But he doesn't make the players around him better. It's like trading in your old Melo for a new one.

Yup and melo was even better.

The only hold up right now is knicks are making sure that they are 100 percent out on Kyrie before they agree to Houston trade