I didn't want to try to start Yankee discussions on what has become a Mets thread (nothing wrong with that, but it has) so I figured I'd start another one.
Presumably the Yankees are after starting pitching alone, though a 1B and LHRP are possibilities. The two notable depth guys who were available, Cahill and Garcia, both moved yesterday. Maybe someone else ends up on the market, but for now it seems like Sonny Gray and a chance that one or both of JV and Darvish get moved.
Dodgers reportedly want Darvish or no one. Milwaukee might take a run at Gray, and they certainly have the ammo to get it done. The real issue for the Yanks is whether they view Gray as an ace or as a good pitcher. A controllable ace, even with injury concerns, is worth a hefty prospect return. A good pitcher with injury concerns is not.
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Jeff Luhnow We are going to be reasonably aggressive if we get close to deal Astros pursuing w/hopes to land STARTER & RELIEVER #Astros
He's not pitching that well this year - good but not great - and I would prefer them to emphasize the next couple years as well as the next couple months.
Thing is Gray has some cost controlled years coming up so while his value may go down going forward, Oakland doesn't HAVE to move him now and can wait until the offseason or something.
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that puts us in the upper echelon of the AL, IMO.
He's not pitching that well this year - good but not great - and I would prefer them to emphasize the next couple years as well as the next couple months.
I think this is a short term and long term move. If things go well, you'd have to figure that we'd have the inside track to sign him long term, he's only 30 yo. If not, you offer arbitration, no?
He's pitching just as well this year as he always has. He pitches in a big time hitters park and all of his numbers are right in line with his career averages. 3.44 ERA, 1.12 WHIP, .216 BAA with over a strikeout an inning. Whats not to like?
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In comment 13538115 Keith said:
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that puts us in the upper echelon of the AL, IMO.
He's not pitching that well this year - good but not great - and I would prefer them to emphasize the next couple years as well as the next couple months.
I think this is a short term and long term move. If things go well, you'd have to figure that we'd have the inside track to sign him long term, he's only 30 yo. If not, you offer arbitration, no?
He's pitching just as well this year as he always has. He pitches in a big time hitters park and all of his numbers are right in line with his career averages. 3.44 ERA, 1.12 WHIP, .216 BAA with over a strikeout an inning. Whats not to like?
Darvish can't be offered the QO if he's traded. If you trade for him the options are extension or lose him for nothing.
Always possible, but so few teams are really out of it. Teheran maybe?
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Also Olney wrote a column suggesting that Beane and Cashman don't deal very often, for whatever reason, and that it may prove a stumbling block to a deal.
The MLB top 100 has been re-shuffled. Some of it a little perplexing. Kaprielian hasn't pitched an inning this year and yet has gone from the top 60 to off the list entirely. Do they know something about his TJS rehab that we don't? Meanwhile Fowler tears up his knee and rises on the list. And why the lack of love for Mateo?
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Yep thats become Cashman's deal. I bet he adds a solid experienced major league starter, figuring once we start hitting a little more consistently with that pen all we need is 5 or 6 solid innings. I do see him reaching out for a solid 1b.
The Sox have already made their deals, in all likelihood, and just about everyone left is pitching poorly. Pelfrey has the best starting ERA.
The Jays have Estrada and Liriano, pitching like crap right now.
The A's have an all-kid rotation except for Sonny Gray, and a lot of it is hurt.
The Tigers? JV, kids and the albatross of Jordan Zimmerman. So in the whole of the AL, among obvious sellers, there are a couple maybes.
In the central only one obvious seller, the Reds, and they have jack shit. The Cards could sell, but Lynn would command a hefty price for a rental.
In the West you've got SF. Kids, big contracts (Cueto, Samardzija) and shitty performance (Cain).
So there actually aren't all that many Cahills and Garcias out there.
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Nothing unusual about that.
Of course, but they knew about the TJS before the ranking that placed him in the top 60.
But they added a bunch from the draft and from performance, so a drop wouldn't be that strange.
@jonmorosi
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Source: In Sonny Gray talks, #Athletics prioritizing young center fielders. They have interest in #Yankees prospect Estevan Florial. @MLB
@Feinsand
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Mark Feinsand Retweeted Jon Morosi
Florial played in this year's Futures Game. I'm told Yankees are not against including him in a trade package.
Feinsand's was a retweet of Morosi, I just didn't add the quoted text
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Jim Callis Retweeted Alex Vandengo 🅥
Kaprielian has shown little ability to stay healthy in pro ball & @Yankees have deepest farm system around. Hence the drop. #Top100Prospects
What do you think the issues are behind his high strikeout rate? Obviously his tools are off the charts but that concerns me
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Florial.
What do you think the issues are behind his high strikeout rate? Obviously his tools are off the charts but that concerns me
He is young and still batting 297. His k rate will drop.
I think Taylor is exactly what the Yankees would like to see Wade become for them, albeit with less power. Can play passable defense at 4 or 5 positions and be a plus bat in the lineup.
Mateo vs Andujar
Imo 2 of those 4 should be dealt in a deal for a stud pitcher this offseason. I don't want Sonny Gray for any of those 2.
Cashman should use guys like Cave, McKinny to get a Gray and if not trade them to someone else for a starter.
Cashmans thinking who can I and who should I trade to keep spots open for guys like torres on the 40 man and maybe Florial also, not sure if he needs to be added next year or year after.
The real big time trades should all be in the offseason and a year from today. But Cashman definitely needs to trade guys like McKinny, Cave etc and try to get a back end starter. Like an Ivan Nova type from last year.
Yeah that's totally true. I would guess Florial gets moved but imo his upside might be higher then Fowlers and also I don't want Florial moved for Sonny Gray unless Gray ends up being good of course.
Yes I'd totally trade them for a Chacin or anything that can help.
McKinney has limited value. Cave doesn't get you Sonny Gray, but the last blocked Yanks OF prospect is now in the team photo for ROY. Cave is better than national pubs give him credit for being, and may have a bit of trade value. He is probably the hottest hitter in the high minors right now.
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McKinney types don't sniff a guy like Gray. More like a Chacin type if you are lucky.
McKinney has limited value. Cave doesn't get you Sonny Gray, but the last blocked Yanks OF prospect is now in the team photo for ROY. Cave is better than national pubs give him credit for being, and may have a bit of trade value. He is probably the hottest hitter in the high minors right now.
Dunedin, I wasn't knocking Cave but I can say pretty confidently he's not what Billy Beane is looking for as a best prospect in a deal for Sonny Gray. There is almost NOTHING out there in terms of SP's, Gray isn't great but he's bringing back at least 1-2 "considered top" prospects for sure.
Betances, Castro, Romine, Didi.
I'm not suggesting trading any of them and obviously it would have to be the right deal. I am opposed to trading the likes of Ginger, Torres, Mateo, etc. I'd rather trade the players blocking them for a pitcher pre arb.
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Source in Trenton: Rangers "head honchos" scouting Thunder tonight. #Yankees "called about Darvish." Texas was taking a hard look at Mateo.
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Greg Johnson Retweeted Dan Federico
Fowler texted his former AA manager, Bobby Mitchell, last week to let him know doctors expect a full recovery. His age (22) is key with that
Betances, Castro, Romine, Didi.
I'm not suggesting trading any of them and obviously it would have to be the right deal. I am opposed to trading the likes of Ginger, Torres, Mateo, etc. I'd rather trade the players blocking them for a pitcher pre arb.
I love that so many fans look at Didi as blocking somebody. He'a only 27,has gotten better each year he's been a Yankee. Why would you move a SS who's one of the best in baseball? Maybe we should start looking at Gleyber at 2B/3B rather than at SS as it seems to me that position is already filled!
I saw that also. Just talking about the right trade not just getting rid of him.
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Are any of these players untouchable in deals for a starting pitcher?
Betances, Castro, Romine, Didi.
I'm not suggesting trading any of them and obviously it would have to be the right deal. I am opposed to trading the likes of Ginger, Torres, Mateo, etc. I'd rather trade the players blocking them for a pitcher pre arb.
I love that so many fans look at Didi as blocking somebody. He'a only 27,has gotten better each year he's been a Yankee. Why would you move a SS who's one of the best in baseball? Maybe we should start looking at Gleyber at 2B/3B rather than at SS as it seems to me that position is already filled!
My question was if these players were untouchable in the right deal instead of trading 4 prospects.
I'm not talking about dumping anyone. I was asking if they were untouchable in the right deal.
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Castro is an offseason move if it happens, and probably not this offseason. Betances isn't going anywhere. Romine? I don't think there's a ton of demand for light hitting backup catchers without options.
I'm not talking about dumping anyone. I was asking if they were untouchable in the right deal.
No but that deal doesn't exist. The Yankees aren't trading probably their second best offensive player right now (Didi) and nobody looking to market an ace is trying to get back a flawed 2B with average productivity or an elite reliever. Contenders pursue elite relievers, not rebuilding teams.
IDK... I guess I would have to see what they gave up. It just makes me uncomfortable.
Alonso is a solid hitting lefty 1B who discovered some power this year which can only get better with Yankees RF wall. Hes also a FA after this year so if we want to continue with the Bird experiment we can without being on the hook past this year.
I also think Ellsbury for Verlander is worth a phone call as we have a SP need and the salaries are similar. Might as well exchange a surplus for a need right? A starting rotation of Severino, Verlander, Tanaka and CC isnt so bad IMHO. Ells for Verlander straight up would be a good get.
I also think Ellsbury for Verlander is worth a phone call as we have a SP need and the salaries are similar. Might as well exchange a surplus for a need right? A starting rotation of Severino, Verlander, Tanaka and CC isnt so bad IMHO. Ells for Verlander straight up would be a good get.
Totally agree. I wish Cashman was wired that way. Years of frustration, he probably prefers a 2018 rotation of a FA, Tanaka, Severino, Montgomery and lets say Green.
Of course it would be a good get for the yankees, because it would be one of the worst trades ever made for the Tigers.
It doesn't make any sense.
Im aware we would have to throw them SOMETHING, but it would be a straight exchange in salries. Ellsbury makes about 7 million less per year and can be bought out after '20. It would just save them some money for all intents and might net them a prospect depending on what they would ask for. Im not well versed enough in the minors to speculate on what might get it done.
I am also okay with just keeping Ells as a bench player. Not a bad back up OF, pinch hitter or pinch runner to have at our disposal.
Just saw JV was 34. Yikes. Didnt realize he was THAT old. Im actually good on giving up any prospects gor a guy who will be 38 and earning 22 million.
Alternatively, say he is top 5 Cy Young in 2019. They save $7m each in 2017 and 2019, 2020 is a wash, and then they pay $5m to Ellsbury on the buyout. So they saved $9m total while giving the Yanks 2 years of a Cy Young contender.
Weight the odds of those two situations however you think is most likely. If you are Detroit, you should not make that trade unless you're getting back at least one prospect that you absolutely love.
Alternatively, say he is top 5 Cy Young in 2019. They save $7m each in 2017 and 2019, 2020 is a wash, and then they pay $5m to Ellsbury on the buyout. So they saved $9m total while giving the Yanks 2 years of a Cy Young contender.
Weight the odds of those two situations however you think is most likely. If you are Detroit, you should not make that trade unless you're getting back at least one prospect that you absolutely love.
Conversely, as Dunedin said, there is probably a far better chance that Verlander at 34 is going to continuously depreciate at a rate much higher as a power pitcher than Ellsbury as an outfielder who is still a very good baserunner and, at times, decent bat that can put the ball over the fence.
Either way, I was mistaken in saying the trade made sense for either team.
For what it's worth, if you remove Ellsbury from the equation, I think the idea of taking a 2 year gamble on Verlander may be an interesting proposition for the Yankees if they balk at the idea of giving a guy like Darvish longer money.
The compensation to Detroit would have to be low for me to like it.
Verlander has looked good 4 of his last 5 starts
That makes absolutely no sense for the T's. None.
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Yankees will want Detroit to either pay considerable annual salary or take back salary in the form of overpaid players, if not Ellsbury, then somebody else or multiple players. Yankees don't have much left to offer in the way of the later.
That makes absolutely no sense for the T's. None.
I totally agree.
I think that would be a mistake. Florial and Andujar MAYBE. But def not Florial and Mateo. I really like Mateo as our leadoff guy of the future.
Cue the complainers. And then the complainers about the complainers.
Cue the complainers. And then the complainers about the complainers.
Didnt Girardi say something about Sanchez nursing a groin injury about a month ago? Groins are just as naggy as hammies and worse for catchers. It certainly makes sense if Girardi gives him a day off every few games. Groins need a ton of rest.
Holliday is 5-55 with 4 double plays, 2 RBIs, 2 XBHs, and 3 BBs.
There's just a drastic difference in his numbers with Romine catching him and anyone else. Romine has to start at least once through the rotation so it might as well be with Monty.
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Not in the lineup tonight.
Cue the complainers. And then the complainers about the complainers.
Didnt Girardi say something about Sanchez nursing a groin injury about a month ago? Groins are just as naggy as hammies and worse for catchers. It certainly makes sense if Girardi gives him a day off every few games. Groins need a ton of rest.
Yeah, I'm not going to lose my mind about it with how poor some of his ABs have been lately. The mental rest may be as valuable as the physical that the moment.
Holliday is 5-55 with 4 double plays, 2 RBIs, 2 XBHs, and 3 BBs.
Good point about DH. But theres an argument to keep sending Holliday out there to make him work out of it. Either way, not much of a big deal giving Gary a day off.
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Outlier, and he's been slumping for a month.
Severino and Gray at the top of your rotation if you lose CC, Pineda and Tanaka (if he opts out) is reason enough to make a deal for Gray.
I don't know what the deal will be, but i'm not getting that worked up over the possibility of losing prospects. All of them are not making the team and all of them are not panning out. Gonna have to deal some at some point to improve the overall competitiveness of the big league club.
Boy, do I know about that! And my Dad just turned 94, and our visit to him (in FL) showed me what I have to look forward to if I reach that age...physical and mental infirmity. Sad and scary.
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Source: Eduardo Nunez to #RedSox.
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Ken RosenthalVerified account @Ken_Rosenthal 2m2 minutes ago
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Source: Eduardo Nunez to #RedSox.
Good bat. Does he still suck at fielding?
Mediocre bat? Hes batting .307....like .350 the last 40 games. Hes a very nice bat.
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96 OPS+, slightly better than Headley.
Mediocre bat? Hes batting .307....like .350 the last 40 games. Hes a very nice bat.
Superb speed also
and he will hit more homers in Fenway
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SFGiants get shaun anderson and gregory santos, 2 righties, for nunez. @alexspeier 1st
But yes, after Sale there are a lot of unknowns. Price is pitching well but historically has been terrible in the postseason, whether fatigue or nerves or what have you.
And people are crowing about our historically good pen, but if Girardi is still going to trot out Betances and Chapman for 8-9 and one or both is still messed up, we're in deep trouble.
AL East and AL Central are pretty much locked in to play one another. Astros will get the wild card winner
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But Sale is going to be a bitch to deal with in the postseason and that is why it is so important for the Yankees to win the division. Make Boston play the wildcard game and use Sale for that game. If they end up facing Boston in the first round, at least they'd only face Sale once in a 5 game series
AL East and AL Central are pretty much locked in to play one another. Astros will get the wild card winner
Yeah, good point
What about Marwin Gonzalez?
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to miller your thread but am I the last person to realize how awesome Whit Merrifield has been? He's like Zobrist 2.0 wow.
What about Marwin Gonzalez?
Coming off 2015 I ranted about wanting the Mets to go after Marwin Gonzalez, then he "stunk" in 2016 making me look bad but yeah wow. Breakout star at 28.
I think anything they say, anywhere they put him or don't put him, is going to be tabloid fodder at this point.
No- ALWAYS injured- and a bad back has limited him to just 22 innings this year. Almost no chance that he contributes for anyone anywhere this season.
@anthonyfenech
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Add another entrant into the Justin Wilson sweepstakes: The Yankees.
@anthonyfenech
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Add another entrant into the Justin Wilson sweepstakes: The Yankees.
I think I would rather have Wilson back than a SP. The only question is whether that creates a new problem of actually having TOO many relievers.
Chapman, Betances, Kahnle, Robertson, Warren, Green already in place- Caleb Smith (who really should be given starts instead of Cessa) is around- and so are Gallegos, Holder, Mitchell, Shreve and Heller.
The Tigers might be in the market for OF and relievers- which the Yanks could provide in a trade- could the Tigers be interested in Jake Cave or Heller or Holder or Shreve? Maybe a combination of them and others?