He's still young and doesn't bring it every night, similar to Kreider and other youngsters who've yet to grasp the concept. Tools certainly seem to be there, it's a deal that's more inline with his production than Stepan's, imo.
but decent player nonetheless, his OT game winner in game 5 won the Habs Rangers series, though that pass from Kreider was one of the best things I've seen Kreider do as a pro, but Mika had to score it for the pass to be that great, so he deserves the credit.
I'm not sold on him at a 1C though, if that's the plan.
but decent player nonetheless, his OT game winner in game 5 won the Habs Rangers series, though that pass from Kreider was one of the best things I've seen Kreider do as a pro, but Mika had to score it for the pass to be that great, so he deserves the credit.
I'm not sold on him at a 1C though, if that's the plan.
You've mentioned that play before, but watch it again. It was pretty lucky. Kreider was shooting and it deflected off the defenseman's stick right to Z
but decent player nonetheless, his OT game winner in game 5 won the Habs Rangers series, though that pass from Kreider was one of the best things I've seen Kreider do as a pro, but Mika had to score it for the pass to be that great, so he deserves the credit.
I'm not sold on him at a 1C though, if that's the plan.
You've mentioned that play before, but watch it again. It was pretty lucky. Kreider was shooting and it deflected off the defenseman's stick right to Z
I'll never watch it again, it's like Patriots fans watching the Tyree catch, if it was deflected then good for Mika being right place right time.
the rest still stands, he's been sort of an underachiever IMO.
The missing center could turn out to be Nieves also, don't count him out, I would rather a vet, but a trade for a decent center is costing you JT Miller, so maybe taking a shot on Nieves is not so bad, he is big and fast, that is for certain.
At 24? He got hurt, he was 23! He broke a fucking leg. Holy shit. Good deal for this kid. It is the going rate and his production may take a big jump this season.
At 24? He got hurt, he was 23! He broke a fucking leg. Holy shit. Good deal for this kid. It is the going rate and his production may take a big jump this season.
He'll be 25 next year's playoffs, he was the #6 overall pick in 2011 draft. That's a lot of time for hockey.
Sorry to say it but he's been an underachiever, for whatever reason. and for me even more because as a 6' 2" 220 lb soft player, it's even worse.
The guy makes the NHL at 19, and because of that he gets labelled an underachiever because it's about time for him, that is what your saying, and that is a poor argument. He was having a really good season when he got hurt, last season is a poor measuring stick and the guy is 24, not 25 next year, 24 now. Which means he was 23 when this underachievement happened, which coincided with him breaking his leg. It is too early to say one way or the other on Zibby, that is the point, and this is not a bad contract for this player.
The guy makes the NHL at 19, and because of that he gets labelled an underachiever because it's about time for him, that is what your saying, and that is a poor argument. He was having a really good season when he got hurt, last season is a poor measuring stick and the guy is 24, not 25 next year, 24 now. Which means he was 23 when this underachievement happened, which coincided with him breaking his leg. It is too early to say one way or the other on Zibby, that is the point, and this is not a bad contract for this player.
No idea what you're arguing about. There is no under/overachiever database.
This is my opinion.
If you think the #6 pick in the draft should have 160 points after 6 NHL or partial NHL seasons then you think he's doing just fine.
I think his production and as or more importantly his overall game is not where I'd expect for the #6 overall pick.
For comparison sake, Alex Galchenyuk was drafted the year after Mika (#3 overall vs #6) has 200+ points in 5 seasons (more games) and us universally hailed as an underachiever.
when you have top 10 overall talent you have higher expectations than what Mika (or Galchenyuk) have shown IMO.
That doesn't mean the future can't be bright for either or both of them, but for me, if I'm running the team based on what I've seen so far I'd have preferred a bridge deal vs a 5 year contract.
Because I do consider him an underachiever and until I see him live up to the lofty expectations I wouldn't have made the long-term commitment.
and it could work out perfectly fine for the Rangers, but I'm comfortable with my reasons for considering him an underachiever and my assessment of him and you can be comfortable with yours. People don't need to agree on everything.
Interesting viewpoint, pj. Not sure if I agree with the underachiever label, but there's certainly some growth embedded in that contract. I think NYR expects (and needs) him to be a 60 point player.
I think people who label Galchenyuk an underachiver are dopes, I blame the coaching staff(s) for any disappointments.
Interesting viewpoint, pj. Not sure if I agree with the underachiever label, but there's certainly some growth embedded in that contract. I think NYR expects (and needs) him to be a 60 point player.
I think people who label Galchenyuk an underachiver are dopes, I blame the coaching staff(s) for any disappointments.
Well you know my thoughts on that one, but I know why they say it.
there is an expectation when you're drafted #3 overall (like Galchenyuk) you should be able to play top line center minutes as a 21/22 year old 3/4 years into your pro career. Everyone expect every one drafted that high to be Auston Matthews.
I do think coaching has more to do with it than some people want to admit, but I understand why they say it.
It's even a little bit up to him to shed the label. Montreal is a tough place to play as a pro, not that NY isn't but nowhere gets the hockey scrutiny that MTL does. I think he will and I hope he stays in MTL.
I think it's fair to expect a minor uptick in production.
IMO, Zib is capable of being a ~60 pt player here. He was on about a 55pt pace this past season. He'll be playing with our top wingers since he's the best pivot on the team right now.
I'd feel a whole lot better if Zib was our 2C and we had a true top-line guy - but I'm sure a lot of teams in this league are wishing for the same.
He was going to score about 60 last season, he broke his leg, he had the type line to succeed, he was on his way. I don't think he is going to ever be a 100 point player, but he has a real shot to be a 70 point player on this team and I think that is very achievable for him. To say he underachieved is premature, he was on his way before the injury. I think you will see the 60 - 70 points this season.
That was the point, since he is an underachiever. That was the entire point, since you forgot. My point is that it is a fair deal and I believe he will improve and in 2 years the deal would have cost us more had we gone the bridge like you would have preferred. That was the whole point. Now the answer is, time will tell us. I certainly hope you are wrong, for the teams sake.
my point about a bridge deal is shorter term, in case he doesn't produce at a higher level you're not on the hook as long. As far as I know he's never been a 1C in OTT or for NYR so maybe to Arc's point if he plays with first liners he'll produce like a first liner, but my point hasn't changed. B/C he has not produced like the #6 overall pick to this point in his career and I don't care if it's injuries or just poor play I consider him an underachiever - based purely on his talent, and I would have preferred a bridge deal so he proves his worth to a 5 year deal where he's paid regardless.
The Rangers have a ton of good forwards, most of the time, especially some of the wings, they play a line lower on the Rangers than they really are.
Center is the exception. I think there's probably 15 legit 1C's in the league, 20 tops, the other 3rd or more of the league is playing a 2C as a 1C. and the Rangers are no different. and the difference between a 1C and 2C (IMO) isn't always points it could be faceoff prowess, defensive zone responsibility breakout, transition game, zone entry, hits/physicality, etc. but most 1C's either have so much skill you overlook deficiencies elsewhere or they're good in all facets like a Patrice Bergeron or Sidney Crosby.
I liked Stepan but I don't think he was much closer to a 1C than Mika though, so it will be interesting to see how it works out. If Mika is the 1C it's not like he's replacing Patrice Bergeron.
In the meantime, it is going to
Be JT and Hayes filling in. Rangers very unlikely to make s deal for a top center unless something falls in their lap
Unexpectedly
But you do seem to be hyping #6 overall like it's some kind of big pick.
Not a lot of 1C's in that group.
Agree, my point wasn't that Mika needs to live up to the lofty goals as a 1C, I haven't considered him a 1C to this point in his career, it's just he need to live up to the #6 draft pick which is more than he's done to this point.
as a 1C he only needs to be better than Stepan (ideally) who was ranked on one site as the 24th out of 30 1C's coming in to 2016 and I think he could have even been like 26th out of 30.
In the meantime, it is going to
Be JT and Hayes filling in. Rangers very unlikely to make s deal for a top center unless something falls in their lap
Unexpectedly
They aren't looking for a top center. they are looking for a 3rd line center and have faith Hayes can hold down the 2C.
And we continue to carry too many defensemen. The whole league knows it so they've been unable to make a deal yet, unfortunately. The Post ran an article last week that said we might even buy out Staal if we can't unload someone (mainly Holden) - I doubt it comes to that, the Girardi buy-out was stupidly timed (and it turned out unnecessary) and this would be even worse as far as dead cap years.
I still think there's got to be a deal that works for both sides with Toronto - they're not going anywhere with their Defensive personnel... and a few other teams too that could use a Nick Holden (or a Marc Staal with us eating a good bit of that salary)... but with so much time left until the season starts I guess no one is in a hurry.
He just got married. Rumors are Holden and a second or a third.
Bozak would be a solid, offensive 2C, but not sure how we could afford him.
Well Holden's 1.6mm would be going the other way and someone is bound to hit LTIR at some point, so guessing they can make this work. But paying a backup career shitty goaltender 1.3mm when the market rate is 800K sure didnt help our flexibility on this.
A 2nd and 3rd and Holden for one year of Bozak seems a little rich considering Bozak's cap hit, but hopefully they give up just the one pick here and I'm happy.
You'd assume Andersson can slot into the #3C next season after Bozak hits FA.
Next offseason Gorton's going to have to do a lot of maneuvering to pay everyone due big raises.
I just looked at Toronto's cap situation by the way
I get why Yankees fans might be offended, but Philly and DC are the enemy cities across all the major sports (DC might not be in NBA, i dont know, as i dont follow that sport)
Pretty much what I expected. Not a bridge deal, thankfully.
Figure he will be around 20 goals a year.
Figure he will be around 20 goals a year.
Exactly. Going rate.
I like the idea of buying out some of those UFA years and not going bridge again.
Still holding out hope we can swing a deal for another C somehow otherwise I think the weakness in the middle will be the downfall of the team.
but decent player nonetheless, his OT game winner in game 5 won the Habs Rangers series, though that pass from Kreider was one of the best things I've seen Kreider do as a pro, but Mika had to score it for the pass to be that great, so he deserves the credit.
I'm not sold on him at a 1C though, if that's the plan.
but decent player nonetheless, his OT game winner in game 5 won the Habs Rangers series, though that pass from Kreider was one of the best things I've seen Kreider do as a pro, but Mika had to score it for the pass to be that great, so he deserves the credit.
I'm not sold on him at a 1C though, if that's the plan.
You've mentioned that play before, but watch it again. It was pretty lucky. Kreider was shooting and it deflected off the defenseman's stick right to Z
Quote:
deal, he's been an underachiever IMO.
but decent player nonetheless, his OT game winner in game 5 won the Habs Rangers series, though that pass from Kreider was one of the best things I've seen Kreider do as a pro, but Mika had to score it for the pass to be that great, so he deserves the credit.
I'm not sold on him at a 1C though, if that's the plan.
You've mentioned that play before, but watch it again. It was pretty lucky. Kreider was shooting and it deflected off the defenseman's stick right to Z
I'll never watch it again, it's like Patriots fans watching the Tyree catch, if it was deflected then good for Mika being right place right time.
the rest still stands, he's been sort of an underachiever IMO.
He'll be 25 next year's playoffs, he was the #6 overall pick in 2011 draft. That's a lot of time for hockey.
Sorry to say it but he's been an underachiever, for whatever reason. and for me even more because as a 6' 2" 220 lb soft player, it's even worse.
I don't know. Is it too hard to expect? You tell me.
No idea what you're arguing about. There is no under/overachiever database.
This is my opinion.
If you think the #6 pick in the draft should have 160 points after 6 NHL or partial NHL seasons then you think he's doing just fine.
I think his production and as or more importantly his overall game is not where I'd expect for the #6 overall pick.
For comparison sake, Alex Galchenyuk was drafted the year after Mika (#3 overall vs #6) has 200+ points in 5 seasons (more games) and us universally hailed as an underachiever.
when you have top 10 overall talent you have higher expectations than what Mika (or Galchenyuk) have shown IMO.
That doesn't mean the future can't be bright for either or both of them, but for me, if I'm running the team based on what I've seen so far I'd have preferred a bridge deal vs a 5 year contract.
Because I do consider him an underachiever and until I see him live up to the lofty expectations I wouldn't have made the long-term commitment.
and it could work out perfectly fine for the Rangers, but I'm comfortable with my reasons for considering him an underachiever and my assessment of him and you can be comfortable with yours. People don't need to agree on everything.
I think people who label Galchenyuk an underachiver are dopes, I blame the coaching staff(s) for any disappointments.
I think people who label Galchenyuk an underachiver are dopes, I blame the coaching staff(s) for any disappointments.
Well you know my thoughts on that one, but I know why they say it.
there is an expectation when you're drafted #3 overall (like Galchenyuk) you should be able to play top line center minutes as a 21/22 year old 3/4 years into your pro career. Everyone expect every one drafted that high to be Auston Matthews.
I do think coaching has more to do with it than some people want to admit, but I understand why they say it.
It's even a little bit up to him to shed the label. Montreal is a tough place to play as a pro, not that NY isn't but nowhere gets the hockey scrutiny that MTL does. I think he will and I hope he stays in MTL.
He's not going to suddenly become this major points producer.
IMO, Zib is capable of being a ~60 pt player here. He was on about a 55pt pace this past season. He'll be playing with our top wingers since he's the best pivot on the team right now.
I'd feel a whole lot better if Zib was our 2C and we had a true top-line guy - but I'm sure a lot of teams in this league are wishing for the same.
The Rangers have a ton of good forwards, most of the time, especially some of the wings, they play a line lower on the Rangers than they really are.
Center is the exception. I think there's probably 15 legit 1C's in the league, 20 tops, the other 3rd or more of the league is playing a 2C as a 1C. and the Rangers are no different. and the difference between a 1C and 2C (IMO) isn't always points it could be faceoff prowess, defensive zone responsibility breakout, transition game, zone entry, hits/physicality, etc. but most 1C's either have so much skill you overlook deficiencies elsewhere or they're good in all facets like a Patrice Bergeron or Sidney Crosby.
I liked Stepan but I don't think he was much closer to a 1C than Mika though, so it will be interesting to see how it works out. If Mika is the 1C it's not like he's replacing Patrice Bergeron.
Not a lot of 1C's in that group.
In the meantime, it is going to
Be JT and Hayes filling in. Rangers very unlikely to make s deal for a top center unless something falls in their lap
Unexpectedly
Not a lot of 1C's in that group.
Agree, my point wasn't that Mika needs to live up to the lofty goals as a 1C, I haven't considered him a 1C to this point in his career, it's just he need to live up to the #6 draft pick which is more than he's done to this point.
as a 1C he only needs to be better than Stepan (ideally) who was ranked on one site as the 24th out of 30 1C's coming in to 2016 and I think he could have even been like 26th out of 30.
In the meantime, it is going to
Be JT and Hayes filling in. Rangers very unlikely to make s deal for a top center unless something falls in their lap
Unexpectedly
They aren't looking for a top center. they are looking for a 3rd line center and have faith Hayes can hold down the 2C.
And we continue to carry too many defensemen. The whole league knows it so they've been unable to make a deal yet, unfortunately. The Post ran an article last week that said we might even buy out Staal if we can't unload someone (mainly Holden) - I doubt it comes to that, the Girardi buy-out was stupidly timed (and it turned out unnecessary) and this would be even worse as far as dead cap years.
I still think there's got to be a deal that works for both sides with Toronto - they're not going anywhere with their Defensive personnel... and a few other teams too that could use a Nick Holden (or a Marc Staal with us eating a good bit of that salary)... but with so much time left until the season starts I guess no one is in a hurry.
Bozak would be a solid, offensive 2C, but not sure how we could afford him.
That'd be a mistake. I don't want Staal on the team at all, but we'd have a shit ton of dead space in the coming years if we buy him out.
Another Rangers coup?
I like this kid, don't think he'll be a top 4 D right away, but should grow into one. Solid 2-way defenseman.
short for my liking at D, but he's not like a Torey Krug, he's got grit.
Bozak would be a solid, offensive 2C, but not sure how we could afford him.
Well Holden's 1.6mm would be going the other way and someone is bound to hit LTIR at some point, so guessing they can make this work. But paying a backup career shitty goaltender 1.3mm when the market rate is 800K sure didnt help our flexibility on this.
A 2nd and 3rd and Holden for one year of Bozak seems a little rich considering Bozak's cap hit, but hopefully they give up just the one pick here and I'm happy.
You'd assume Andersson can slot into the #3C next season after Bozak hits FA.
Next offseason Gorton's going to have to do a lot of maneuvering to pay everyone due big raises.
Granted they really lucked out with Columbus picking up Clarkson but... God I hate Pittsburgh.
Link - ( New Window )
I get why Yankees fans might be offended, but Philly and DC are the enemy cities across all the major sports (DC might not be in NBA, i dont know, as i dont follow that sport)
Longest tenured Canadiens player (was). 16 seasons, same team.
Never higher than 6th in Norris
Never an all-star
but always a solid top 4 D-man.
2nd highest scoring Canadiens defenseman of all-time
2nd most games played by a Canadiens defenseman of all time
both behind Larry Robinson.
I bet the Olympics played a small part - in addition to the Canadiens not willing to give him 2 years $12M at 38 years old.
McDavid latest to come out against the NHL stance on Olympics.
I get both sides of it, but wish they'd find a way to make it work.