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NFT: Rangers lock up little Z

feelflows : 7/25/2017 11:02 am
5 years $5.35 annually.

For the avoidance of doubt  
bigbluehoya : 7/25/2017 11:05 am : link
Zibanejad, not Zucc.

Pretty much what I expected. Not a bridge deal, thankfully.
Eh...$5.35M is a little high IMO  
Greg from LI : 7/25/2017 11:06 am : link
But not terrible
Going rate  
feelflows : 7/25/2017 11:07 am : link
He's productive.

Figure he will be around 20 goals a year.
I have no sense of what a fair # was  
Deej : 7/25/2017 11:08 am : link
but Im glad he's locked up. I think he still has room to improve.
Consistency is the key  
JonC : 7/25/2017 11:39 am : link
He's still young and doesn't bring it every night, similar to Kreider and other youngsters who've yet to grasp the concept. Tools certainly seem to be there, it's a deal that's more inline with his production than Stepan's, imo.
RE: Going rate  
yatqb : 7/25/2017 11:45 am : link
In comment 13538232 feelflows said:
Quote:
He's productive.

Figure he will be around 20 goals a year.


Exactly. Going rate.
If they went 2 year bridge deal  
Kyle in NY : 7/25/2017 11:48 am : link
and he has the season he was on his way to having before the broken leg, then he costs more than that anyway as he heads to UFA in 2 seasons.

I like the idea of buying out some of those UFA years and not going bridge again.
I'm still waiting to Gorton to make a deal...  
Torrag : 7/25/2017 11:48 am : link
...and find us another viable Ceneter. As it stands this team is going nowhere fast with the pivots they'll be forced to run out there at 1C/2C/3C.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/25/2017 11:50 am : link
Young, ascending player. Good deal for NYR.

Still holding out hope we can swing a deal for another C somehow otherwise I think the weakness in the middle will be the downfall of the team.
I would have rather gone bridge  
pjcas18 : 7/25/2017 11:51 am : link
deal, he's been an underachiever IMO.

but decent player nonetheless, his OT game winner in game 5 won the Habs Rangers series, though that pass from Kreider was one of the best things I've seen Kreider do as a pro, but Mika had to score it for the pass to be that great, so he deserves the credit.

I'm not sold on him at a 1C though, if that's the plan.
RE: I would have rather gone bridge  
Kyle in NY : 7/25/2017 11:52 am : link
In comment 13538314 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
deal, he's been an underachiever IMO.

but decent player nonetheless, his OT game winner in game 5 won the Habs Rangers series, though that pass from Kreider was one of the best things I've seen Kreider do as a pro, but Mika had to score it for the pass to be that great, so he deserves the credit.

I'm not sold on him at a 1C though, if that's the plan.


You've mentioned that play before, but watch it again. It was pretty lucky. Kreider was shooting and it deflected off the defenseman's stick right to Z
RE: RE: I would have rather gone bridge  
pjcas18 : 7/25/2017 11:56 am : link
In comment 13538322 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13538314 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


deal, he's been an underachiever IMO.

but decent player nonetheless, his OT game winner in game 5 won the Habs Rangers series, though that pass from Kreider was one of the best things I've seen Kreider do as a pro, but Mika had to score it for the pass to be that great, so he deserves the credit.

I'm not sold on him at a 1C though, if that's the plan.



You've mentioned that play before, but watch it again. It was pretty lucky. Kreider was shooting and it deflected off the defenseman's stick right to Z


I'll never watch it again, it's like Patriots fans watching the Tyree catch, if it was deflected then good for Mika being right place right time.

the rest still stands, he's been sort of an underachiever IMO.
I understand  
Kyle in NY : 7/25/2017 11:59 am : link
I'd like to say Kreider made an incredible pass. But I'm almost positive it was a lucky deflection
Deal is fair  
PaulN : 7/25/2017 1:35 pm : link
The missing center could turn out to be Nieves also, don't count him out, I would rather a vet, but a trade for a decent center is costing you JT Miller, so maybe taking a shot on Nieves is not so bad, he is big and fast, that is for certain.
underachiever  
PaulN : 7/25/2017 1:37 pm : link
At 24? He got hurt, he was 23! He broke a fucking leg. Holy shit. Good deal for this kid. It is the going rate and his production may take a big jump this season.
Nice deal  
Metnut : 7/25/2017 1:44 pm : link
Hopefully the NHL fixes the playoff system soon (I'm not holding my breath). The Metro is going to be an absolute warzone for the next few years.
Thanks bigbluehoya  
Samiam : 7/25/2017 1:45 pm : link
Is it really too much to expect someone who starts a thread to title it in English?
RE: underachiever  
pjcas18 : 7/25/2017 1:51 pm : link
In comment 13538508 PaulN said:
Quote:
At 24? He got hurt, he was 23! He broke a fucking leg. Holy shit. Good deal for this kid. It is the going rate and his production may take a big jump this season.


He'll be 25 next year's playoffs, he was the #6 overall pick in 2011 draft. That's a lot of time for hockey.

Sorry to say it but he's been an underachiever, for whatever reason. and for me even more because as a 6' 2" 220 lb soft player, it's even worse.

RE: Thanks bigbluehoya  
feelflows : 7/25/2017 1:52 pm : link
In comment 13538520 Samiam said:
Quote:
Is it really too much to expect someone who starts a thread to title it in English?


I don't know. Is it too hard to expect? You tell me.

So  
PaulN : 7/25/2017 4:03 pm : link
The guy makes the NHL at 19, and because of that he gets labelled an underachiever because it's about time for him, that is what your saying, and that is a poor argument. He was having a really good season when he got hurt, last season is a poor measuring stick and the guy is 24, not 25 next year, 24 now. Which means he was 23 when this underachievement happened, which coincided with him breaking his leg. It is too early to say one way or the other on Zibby, that is the point, and this is not a bad contract for this player.
RE: So  
pjcas18 : 7/25/2017 4:15 pm : link
In comment 13538701 PaulN said:
Quote:
The guy makes the NHL at 19, and because of that he gets labelled an underachiever because it's about time for him, that is what your saying, and that is a poor argument. He was having a really good season when he got hurt, last season is a poor measuring stick and the guy is 24, not 25 next year, 24 now. Which means he was 23 when this underachievement happened, which coincided with him breaking his leg. It is too early to say one way or the other on Zibby, that is the point, and this is not a bad contract for this player.


No idea what you're arguing about. There is no under/overachiever database.

This is my opinion.

If you think the #6 pick in the draft should have 160 points after 6 NHL or partial NHL seasons then you think he's doing just fine.

I think his production and as or more importantly his overall game is not where I'd expect for the #6 overall pick.

For comparison sake, Alex Galchenyuk was drafted the year after Mika (#3 overall vs #6) has 200+ points in 5 seasons (more games) and us universally hailed as an underachiever.

when you have top 10 overall talent you have higher expectations than what Mika (or Galchenyuk) have shown IMO.

That doesn't mean the future can't be bright for either or both of them, but for me, if I'm running the team based on what I've seen so far I'd have preferred a bridge deal vs a 5 year contract.

Because I do consider him an underachiever and until I see him live up to the lofty expectations I wouldn't have made the long-term commitment.

and it could work out perfectly fine for the Rangers, but I'm comfortable with my reasons for considering him an underachiever and my assessment of him and you can be comfortable with yours. People don't need to agree on everything.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 7/25/2017 5:48 pm : link
Interesting viewpoint, pj. Not sure if I agree with the underachiever label, but there's certainly some growth embedded in that contract. I think NYR expects (and needs) him to be a 60 point player.

I think people who label Galchenyuk an underachiver are dopes, I blame the coaching staff(s) for any disappointments.
RE: ....  
pjcas18 : 7/25/2017 6:35 pm : link
In comment 13538803 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Interesting viewpoint, pj. Not sure if I agree with the underachiever label, but there's certainly some growth embedded in that contract. I think NYR expects (and needs) him to be a 60 point player.

I think people who label Galchenyuk an underachiver are dopes, I blame the coaching staff(s) for any disappointments.


Well you know my thoughts on that one, but I know why they say it.

there is an expectation when you're drafted #3 overall (like Galchenyuk) you should be able to play top line center minutes as a 21/22 year old 3/4 years into your pro career. Everyone expect every one drafted that high to be Auston Matthews.

I do think coaching has more to do with it than some people want to admit, but I understand why they say it.

It's even a little bit up to him to shed the label. Montreal is a tough place to play as a pro, not that NY isn't but nowhere gets the hockey scrutiny that MTL does. I think he will and I hope he stays in MTL.


PJ is right.  
Davisian : 7/25/2017 6:58 pm : link
I like Mika and this deal is market value for him, but what we see is likely what we'll get.

He's not going to suddenly become this major points producer.

.  
arcarsenal : 7/25/2017 7:10 pm : link
I think it's fair to expect a minor uptick in production.

IMO, Zib is capable of being a ~60 pt player here. He was on about a 55pt pace this past season. He'll be playing with our top wingers since he's the best pivot on the team right now.

I'd feel a whole lot better if Zib was our 2C and we had a true top-line guy - but I'm sure a lot of teams in this league are wishing for the same.
He is 24  
PaulN : 7/25/2017 7:48 pm : link
He was going to score about 60 last season, he broke his leg, he had the type line to succeed, he was on his way. I don't think he is going to ever be a 100 point player, but he has a real shot to be a 70 point player on this team and I think that is very achievable for him. To say he underachieved is premature, he was on his way before the injury. I think you will see the 60 - 70 points this season.
You would have rather gone bridge  
PaulN : 7/25/2017 7:58 pm : link
That was the point, since he is an underachiever. That was the entire point, since you forgot. My point is that it is a fair deal and I believe he will improve and in 2 years the deal would have cost us more had we gone the bridge like you would have preferred. That was the whole point. Now the answer is, time will tell us. I certainly hope you are wrong, for the teams sake.
Yeah  
pjcas18 : 7/25/2017 8:11 pm : link
my point about a bridge deal is shorter term, in case he doesn't produce at a higher level you're not on the hook as long. As far as I know he's never been a 1C in OTT or for NYR so maybe to Arc's point if he plays with first liners he'll produce like a first liner, but my point hasn't changed. B/C he has not produced like the #6 overall pick to this point in his career and I don't care if it's injuries or just poor play I consider him an underachiever - based purely on his talent, and I would have preferred a bridge deal so he proves his worth to a 5 year deal where he's paid regardless.

The Rangers have a ton of good forwards, most of the time, especially some of the wings, they play a line lower on the Rangers than they really are.

Center is the exception. I think there's probably 15 legit 1C's in the league, 20 tops, the other 3rd or more of the league is playing a 2C as a 1C. and the Rangers are no different. and the difference between a 1C and 2C (IMO) isn't always points it could be faceoff prowess, defensive zone responsibility breakout, transition game, zone entry, hits/physicality, etc. but most 1C's either have so much skill you overlook deficiencies elsewhere or they're good in all facets like a Patrice Bergeron or Sidney Crosby.

I liked Stepan but I don't think he was much closer to a 1C than Mika though, so it will be interesting to see how it works out. If Mika is the 1C it's not like he's replacing Patrice Bergeron.

I mostly agree, PJ  
Davisian : 7/25/2017 11:33 pm : link
But you do seem to be hyping #6 overall like it's some kind of big pick.

Not a lot of 1C's in that group.

Paul is right about Nieves  
Vanzetti : 7/25/2017 11:57 pm : link
he will evolve into a #2 center

In the meantime, it is going to
Be JT and Hayes filling in. Rangers very unlikely to make s deal for a top center unless something falls in their lap
Unexpectedly
RE: I mostly agree, PJ  
pjcas18 : 7/26/2017 8:53 am : link
In comment 13539060 Davisian said:
Quote:
But you do seem to be hyping #6 overall like it's some kind of big pick.

Not a lot of 1C's in that group.


Agree, my point wasn't that Mika needs to live up to the lofty goals as a 1C, I haven't considered him a 1C to this point in his career, it's just he need to live up to the #6 draft pick which is more than he's done to this point.

as a 1C he only needs to be better than Stepan (ideally) who was ranked on one site as the 24th out of 30 1C's coming in to 2016 and I think he could have even been like 26th out of 30.
RE: Paul is right about Nieves  
MetsAreBack : 7/26/2017 8:54 am : link
In comment 13539066 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
he will evolve into a #2 center

In the meantime, it is going to
Be JT and Hayes filling in. Rangers very unlikely to make s deal for a top center unless something falls in their lap
Unexpectedly



They aren't looking for a top center. they are looking for a 3rd line center and have faith Hayes can hold down the 2C.

And we continue to carry too many defensemen. The whole league knows it so they've been unable to make a deal yet, unfortunately. The Post ran an article last week that said we might even buy out Staal if we can't unload someone (mainly Holden) - I doubt it comes to that, the Girardi buy-out was stupidly timed (and it turned out unnecessary) and this would be even worse as far as dead cap years.

I still think there's got to be a deal that works for both sides with Toronto - they're not going anywhere with their Defensive personnel... and a few other teams too that could use a Nick Holden (or a Marc Staal with us eating a good bit of that salary)... but with so much time left until the season starts I guess no one is in a hurry.
Apparently the Bozak rumors are picking up steam  
Anakim : 7/26/2017 5:58 pm : link
He just got married. Rumors are Holden and a second or a third.


Bozak would be a solid, offensive 2C, but not sure how we could afford him.
I've been seeing rumors about buying Staal out on Twitter.  
BrettNYG10 : 7/26/2017 7:26 pm : link
NY Post mentioned it the other day too.
RE: I've been seeing rumors about buying Staal out on Twitter.  
Anakim : 7/26/2017 7:39 pm : link
In comment 13539789 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
NY Post mentioned it the other day too.


That'd be a mistake. I don't want Staal on the team at all, but we'd have a shit ton of dead space in the coming years if we buy him out.
2017 Hobey  
pjcas18 : 7/26/2017 8:15 pm : link
Baker winner Will Butcher is set to become a free agent on 8/15 a la Jimmy Vecey.

Another Rangers coup?

I like this kid, don't think he'll be a top 4 D right away, but should grow into one. Solid 2-way defenseman.

short for my liking at D, but he's not like a Torey Krug, he's got grit.
RE: Apparently the Bozak rumors are picking up steam  
MetsAreBack : 7/27/2017 2:48 pm : link
In comment 13539742 Anakim said:
Quote:
He just got married. Rumors are Holden and a second or a third.


Bozak would be a solid, offensive 2C, but not sure how we could afford him.



Well Holden's 1.6mm would be going the other way and someone is bound to hit LTIR at some point, so guessing they can make this work. But paying a backup career shitty goaltender 1.3mm when the market rate is 800K sure didnt help our flexibility on this.

A 2nd and 3rd and Holden for one year of Bozak seems a little rich considering Bozak's cap hit, but hopefully they give up just the one pick here and I'm happy.

You'd assume Andersson can slot into the #3C next season after Bozak hits FA.

Next offseason Gorton's going to have to do a lot of maneuvering to pay everyone due big raises.
I just looked at Toronto's cap situation by the way  
MetsAreBack : 7/27/2017 2:55 pm : link
I cant believe they are paying Kessel $1.2MM off their cap for the next 5 years. One of the all-time heists in sports.

Granted they really lucked out with Columbus picking up Clarkson but... God I hate Pittsburgh.
Trade Kevin Hayes immediately  
Greg from LI : 7/27/2017 3:14 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
why? Are the Pats a rival?  
MetsAreBack : 7/27/2017 3:33 pm : link

I get why Yankees fans might be offended, but Philly and DC are the enemy cities across all the major sports (DC might not be in NBA, i dont know, as i dont follow that sport)
I already didn't like Hayes  
pjcas18 : 7/27/2017 5:57 pm : link
unrelated to the Rangers, but Andrei Markov headed to the KHL.

Longest tenured Canadiens player (was). 16 seasons, same team.

Never higher than 6th in Norris
Never an all-star

but always a solid top 4 D-man.

2nd highest scoring Canadiens defenseman of all-time
2nd most games played by a Canadiens defenseman of all time

both behind Larry Robinson.

I bet the Olympics played a small part - in addition to the Canadiens not willing to give him 2 years $12M at 38 years old.

McDavid latest to come out against the NHL stance on Olympics.

I get both sides of it, but wish they'd find a way to make it work.

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