my father refused to let me play until high school - because of the way the coaches taught such poor technique
by the time these guys reach the NFL - who knows how many concussions they've actually suffered. from what I understand 1 concussion just makes all subsequent concussions easier to get
scary stuff. I still don't know how these guys survive special teams plays ... I will never forget the blind sided hit I took on a punt return.
the accumulation of hits that is important, according to Dr. McKee. So it might not be that one BIG hit but all the little ones from practice and in games. Apparently, a study was done and showed that a lineman in college averages roughly 62 hits to the head per game...whether severe or not severe.
So if you started at a young age, played minor football then high school then college then the NFL...your chances are virtually 100% you will get CTE.
that if they tested retired Soccer players who played for 20 years the numbers would be the same, and hockey players, and rugby players, etc.
My stance on this has been consistent. If you become a professional football player OR accept a college scholarship to play football, without realizing that running into another human being at full speed while wearing plastic body armor could cause long term brain damage, then I don't know what to tell you.
NOW- there is one caveat to this. If the NFL was covering evidence that it had and didn't share with the NCAA or even Pop Warner as an organization (which it seems to have done) then that is egregious and the lawsuits from players since that time are all fine and good with me, although their success would be suspect, seeing that the NFL has MAJORLY in the past two decades put a huge emphasis on player safety and taken measures consistently to change the rules of the game to decrease violent collisions.
my father refused to let me play until high school - because of the way the coaches taught such poor technique
by the time these guys reach the NFL - who knows how many concussions they've actually suffered. from what I understand 1 concussion just makes all subsequent concussions easier to get
scary stuff. I still don't know how these guys survive special teams plays ... I will never forget the blind sided hit I took on a punt return.
Go Giants ?
All this is true, but the issue with CTE isn't concussions. It's routine blocking and tackling. That's why it's going to be a tough (maybe impossible) problem to solve. You could eliminate concussions without eliminating the brain bumping against the skull every time a lineman hits another lineman, or every time a running back hits the pile, or on every QB hit, or every time a player's head hits the ground.
You could take all the collisions out of the game, but it would become a fundamentally different sport.
I think the NFL had better start funneling vast sums of money into CTE reasearch or very soon they're going to see the sport start to whither. Parents won't let their kids play; schools won't be able to justify having teams; and insurance will become impossible or exorbitant. As much as we love the game, it can't go on if it's causing CTE in a large % of its players.
(The New York Times article on the study points out that the study doesn't prove at all that 99% of NFL players have CTE; but it does go a long way toward proving that NFL players get CTE at a much higher rate than the general population.)
my father refused to let me play until high school - because of the way the coaches taught such poor technique
by the time these guys reach the NFL - who knows how many concussions they've actually suffered. from what I understand 1 concussion just makes all subsequent concussions easier to get
scary stuff. I still don't know how these guys survive special teams plays ... I will never forget the blind sided hit I took on a punt return.
Go Giants ?
All this is true, but the issue with CTE isn't concussions. It's routine blocking and tackling. That's why it's going to be a tough (maybe impossible) problem to solve. You could eliminate concussions without eliminating the brain bumping against the skull every time a lineman hits another lineman, or every time a running back hits the pile, or on every QB hit, or every time a player's head hits the ground.
You could take all the collisions out of the game, but it would become a fundamentally different sport.
I think the NFL had better start funneling vast sums of money into CTE reasearch or very soon they're going to see the sport start to whither. Parents won't let their kids play; schools won't be able to justify having teams; and insurance will become impossible or exorbitant. As much as we love the game, it can't go on if it's causing CTE in a large % of its players.
(The New York Times article on the study points out that the study doesn't prove at all that 99% of NFL players have CTE; but it does go a long way toward proving that NFL players get CTE at a much higher rate than the general population.)
Thats correct there is clearly a sampling bias. Those more likely to donate their brains were likely trying to solve a problem they suffered from. Still staggering.
Your post is right on point and in the end the sport prob cant exist without concussions barring a major technological advance.
-Don't play football, soccer or anything where you hit the head.
-Feed your brain the right foods daily and it will love you, so start every morning with distilled, clean water maybe with some organic lemon.
-Feed your brain good fats (grass fed butter, organic coconut oil, olive oil, avocados, olives)
-Don't drink alcohol, preferably at all but if you must one glass of organic red wine (no sulfates) a week (2 for men).
-Play brain games and exercise (Zumba, ping pong, rebounder, juggle, swim, etc.)
These are the ones I recall off the top of my head - no pun intended. lOL
are not even close to the level of direct hitting brutality that occurs in football, notably head to head impact.
I've had debates on this with hockey fans who insist that hockey is as physical or even more physical than football. It's not even close. There's "chippy" physicallity and "car crash" physicality. Big difference.
my father refused to let me play until high school - because of the way the coaches taught such poor technique
by the time these guys reach the NFL - who knows how many concussions they've actually suffered. from what I understand 1 concussion just makes all subsequent concussions easier to get
scary stuff. I still don't know how these guys survive special teams plays ... I will never forget the blind sided hit I took on a punt return.
Go Giants ?
All this is true, but the issue with CTE isn't concussions. It's routine blocking and tackling. That's why it's going to be a tough (maybe impossible) problem to solve. You could eliminate concussions without eliminating the brain bumping against the skull every time a lineman hits another lineman, or every time a running back hits the pile, or on every QB hit, or every time a player's head hits the ground.
You could take all the collisions out of the game, but it would become a fundamentally different sport.
I think the NFL had better start funneling vast sums of money into CTE reasearch or very soon they're going to see the sport start to whither. Parents won't let their kids play; schools won't be able to justify having teams; and insurance will become impossible or exorbitant. As much as we love the game, it can't go on if it's causing CTE in a large % of its players.
(The New York Times article on the study points out that the study doesn't prove at all that 99% of NFL players have CTE; but it does go a long way toward proving that NFL players get CTE at a much higher rate than the general population.)
This. Great post. Also what part of a players genetic pre disposition to disease states like Parkinson's, Alzheimer's , depression. Play a role in functional issues later in life.
4 guys go to the beach and sit in the sun all day. The fairer guys are most likely more apt to be at risk for skin cancer. Doesn't mean all 4 dont have the risk but we can guess easily that a guy who burns easily shouldn't go out like that or without sun screen. Same w this is my guess.
The brain is more complex than any other organ. We are still learning so much. Concussions are serious. But the they made it seem like a lot of the new rules to supposedly protect players ignore the biggest causes of long term brain injury. They are worried about WRs As compared to the increased risk to guys like linemen and LBs and Safeties and running backs.
LAstly if you are so concerned w this issue how can you watch the NFL if you feel the NFL hid this info. Or that it's a "brutal" sport. That you wouldn't let your kids play it. Seems odd to me.
are not even close to the level of direct hitting brutality that occurs in football, notably head to head impact.
I've had debates on this with hockey fans who insist that hockey is as physical or even more physical than football. It's not even close. There's "chippy" physicallity and "car crash" physicality. Big difference.
You realize that you can sustain damage to the brain without ever taking a shot to the head?
e.g. getting tackled in the shoulder and causing whip lash
Having actually played soccer as a youth I can tell you that the hits you take to your head are real. When you head the ball, its coming in at a serious velocity. It actually hurts....
Or the NFL could do the big tobacco strategy.... Â
Just deny it as long as you can in order to keep the gravy train running. Admitting that they are associated with an increased risk of CTE without having a remedy is likely to exacerbate their problem. Radically changing the game to elimnate risk of CTE is also suicidal.
Since soccer is a bigger international sport and is also implicated, I would recommend forming a policy position with them and let the public accept it or reject it. My bet is the world is less likely to reject soccer than the US is to reject football.
RE: Or the NFL could do the big tobacco strategy.... Â
Just deny it as long as you can in order to keep the gravy train running. Admitting that they are associated with an increased risk of CTE without having a remedy is likely to exacerbate their problem. Radically changing the game to elimnate risk of CTE is also suicidal.
Since soccer is a bigger international sport and is also implicated, I would recommend forming a policy position with them and let the public accept it or reject it. My bet is the world is less likely to reject soccer than the US is to reject football.
Soccer could ban headers (or restrict them to the penalty area only) without fundamentally changing the sport. It would be a different version of soccer, but it would still be soccer.
American football without collisions would be a different game entirely. Imagine "tackling" as a 15-yard penalty and immediate ejection. When I played flag football in high school PE class, linemen rushed and blocked, and I can remember getting hit pretty hard; even that kind of contact would have to be banned. Collision-free "football" be unrecognizable.
is the hitting in pre college football especially at practice. It's coming but it should be in place now.
1. Eliminate tackle football for kids. These kids hit more than NFL players.
2. Limit hitting in HS football practices.
The issue is not the same for soccer players (or even rugby). They don't take consistent shots to the head and high speed impact.
No one listens; or perhaps no one wants to hear. It isn't high-speed collisions or hits to the head; it's ALL collisions, slow or fast, that create the problem over time. And just limiting hitting to College and above won't do fuck-all to ameliorate the problem.
I know high school football teams are limiting hitting to every other day during the week.
I am not sure this will be enough, but teaching young kids how to tackle properly would help to start at the Pop Warner level on up.
I know high school football teams are limiting hitting to every other day during the week.
I am not sure this will be enough, but teaching young kids how to tackle properly would help to start at the Pop Warner level on up.
Again, that won't do fuck-all. A collision is a collision in this case.
but it's odd that CTE symptoms seem to have gotten worst since the rise of PED's in football. Is it possible that the combination of steroids and faster players/worst technique is the issue, not just collisions?
It is speculated that 20% of boxers might get CTE based on pugilistic dementia numbers, but 9 out of 9 football players studied had CTE. It appears that modern athletes who are prone to taking anabolic steroids and getting shots to the head are more prone to CTE.
This is very early stage stuff, but it would be interesting to see how severe CTE is from players who were playing in the 50's, 60's and 70's.
Eliminate tackle before 9th grade eliminate 5 years of hitting for some.
Restrict or eliminate hitting in practice in high school. That's years off.
The Dartmouth coach and others are eliminating hitting in practice. T helps.
Hitting in the NFL is restricted more than it is ln he pee wee and high school level. That should change. May not solve it but it cuts this number of hits to the head over many years.
The rugby tackling can make a difference. Instead of the tackler leading with the head and trying to rock the ball carrier, they just wrap and twist. It would reduce the impact on the head and over time it certainly adds up to less brain rocking into your skull.
and logically it makes sense that running into something with your head, probably isn't good for said head. However, what I've never seen is any reference to the prevalence of CTE in non-football players. I recognize that the requirement for the testee to be dead will limit the available sample size. Also the article points out one of the problems with this study - namely that the brains tested weren't randomly selected from all deceased football players. They were self selected because the deceased family had noticed odd behavior and were looking for a cause. There's no way of knowing how many players who didn't demonstrate symptoms either had or didn't have CTE.
I agree that the sport, meaning it's players, coaches and administrators need to continue to do what they can to minimize concussions. However the cries to ban the sport or radically change it because of CTE frighten me a bit. The article references the "incidence of CTE in the general population" but neither quantifies that nor explains how that was determined. I for one have never heard of a scientific study of deceased accountants or bartenders to see if they also had CTE. We test football players so we know it can show up there, or at least in the ones that are tested. However, until a true random, blind study is done there's no baseline to compare against. It could be simply that human beings get CTE, like we get arthritis and nearsightedness.
my father refused to let me play until high school - because of the way the coaches taught such poor technique
by the time these guys reach the NFL - who knows how many concussions they've actually suffered. from what I understand 1 concussion just makes all subsequent concussions easier to get
scary stuff. I still don't know how these guys survive special teams plays ... I will never forget the blind sided hit I took on a punt return.
Go Giants ?
It's not just concussions. CTE is the result of repeated brain collisions. They don't all result in concussions. On most plays in football, your brain is being jarred.
The other misconception is that changing helmets will prevent concussions. Regardless of headgear, your brain will get jarred and slam into your skull if you are running full speed and get hit full speed, regardless of whether or not the head is ever hit by the defender.
For those mentioning soccer, it should be pointed out that Â
US Soccer Federation has already banned headers for kids. Under 10 it is banned completely, while 11-13 year olds are only supposed to do it in practice. If the players intentional do it in a game it results in a free kick for the other team.
The problem is that for soccer, the most common head usage (headers) is easy to reduce/ban. For football, the head is hit on so many more plays that it will be nearly impossible to eliminate.
This chart is out of date and deals with HS concussions only, but Boys soccer is actually a few sports down. Girls soccer is the #1 girls sport for concussions though.
were allowed to release the identity of the one who tested negative. Since the one kicker and one punter in the study both tested positive, that wouldn't necessarily explain why this one player didn't have brain damage. Was there something genetically unique about him that prevented CTE? I understand this is not the main point of the study's findings but it is still fascinating IMO.
We certainly know about punch drunk boxers, but what about a soccer player, or the baseball player, etc.
Link - ( New Window )
by the time these guys reach the NFL - who knows how many concussions they've actually suffered. from what I understand 1 concussion just makes all subsequent concussions easier to get
scary stuff. I still don't know how these guys survive special teams plays ... I will never forget the blind sided hit I took on a punt return.
Go Giants ?
So if you started at a young age, played minor football then high school then college then the NFL...your chances are virtually 100% you will get CTE.
My stance on this has been consistent. If you become a professional football player OR accept a college scholarship to play football, without realizing that running into another human being at full speed while wearing plastic body armor could cause long term brain damage, then I don't know what to tell you.
NOW- there is one caveat to this. If the NFL was covering evidence that it had and didn't share with the NCAA or even Pop Warner as an organization (which it seems to have done) then that is egregious and the lawsuits from players since that time are all fine and good with me, although their success would be suspect, seeing that the NFL has MAJORLY in the past two decades put a huge emphasis on player safety and taken measures consistently to change the rules of the game to decrease violent collisions.
by the time these guys reach the NFL - who knows how many concussions they've actually suffered. from what I understand 1 concussion just makes all subsequent concussions easier to get
scary stuff. I still don't know how these guys survive special teams plays ... I will never forget the blind sided hit I took on a punt return.
Go Giants ?
You could take all the collisions out of the game, but it would become a fundamentally different sport.
I think the NFL had better start funneling vast sums of money into CTE reasearch or very soon they're going to see the sport start to whither. Parents won't let their kids play; schools won't be able to justify having teams; and insurance will become impossible or exorbitant. As much as we love the game, it can't go on if it's causing CTE in a large % of its players.
(The New York Times article on the study points out that the study doesn't prove at all that 99% of NFL players have CTE; but it does go a long way toward proving that NFL players get CTE at a much higher rate than the general population.)
Quote:
my father refused to let me play until high school - because of the way the coaches taught such poor technique
by the time these guys reach the NFL - who knows how many concussions they've actually suffered. from what I understand 1 concussion just makes all subsequent concussions easier to get
scary stuff. I still don't know how these guys survive special teams plays ... I will never forget the blind sided hit I took on a punt return.
Go Giants ?
All this is true, but the issue with CTE isn't concussions. It's routine blocking and tackling. That's why it's going to be a tough (maybe impossible) problem to solve. You could eliminate concussions without eliminating the brain bumping against the skull every time a lineman hits another lineman, or every time a running back hits the pile, or on every QB hit, or every time a player's head hits the ground.
You could take all the collisions out of the game, but it would become a fundamentally different sport.
I think the NFL had better start funneling vast sums of money into CTE reasearch or very soon they're going to see the sport start to whither. Parents won't let their kids play; schools won't be able to justify having teams; and insurance will become impossible or exorbitant. As much as we love the game, it can't go on if it's causing CTE in a large % of its players.
(The New York Times article on the study points out that the study doesn't prove at all that 99% of NFL players have CTE; but it does go a long way toward proving that NFL players get CTE at a much higher rate than the general population.)
Your post is right on point and in the end the sport prob cant exist without concussions barring a major technological advance.
1. Eliminate tackle football for kids. These kids hit more than NFL players.
2. Limit hitting in HS football practices.
The issue is not the same for soccer players (or even rugby). They don't take consistent shots to the head and high speed impact.
-Don't play football, soccer or anything where you hit the head.
-Feed your brain the right foods daily and it will love you, so start every morning with distilled, clean water maybe with some organic lemon.
-Feed your brain good fats (grass fed butter, organic coconut oil, olive oil, avocados, olives)
-Don't drink alcohol, preferably at all but if you must one glass of organic red wine (no sulfates) a week (2 for men).
-Play brain games and exercise (Zumba, ping pong, rebounder, juggle, swim, etc.)
These are the ones I recall off the top of my head - no pun intended. lOL
I've had debates on this with hockey fans who insist that hockey is as physical or even more physical than football. It's not even close. There's "chippy" physicallity and "car crash" physicality. Big difference.
Quote:
my father refused to let me play until high school - because of the way the coaches taught such poor technique
by the time these guys reach the NFL - who knows how many concussions they've actually suffered. from what I understand 1 concussion just makes all subsequent concussions easier to get
scary stuff. I still don't know how these guys survive special teams plays ... I will never forget the blind sided hit I took on a punt return.
Go Giants ?
All this is true, but the issue with CTE isn't concussions. It's routine blocking and tackling. That's why it's going to be a tough (maybe impossible) problem to solve. You could eliminate concussions without eliminating the brain bumping against the skull every time a lineman hits another lineman, or every time a running back hits the pile, or on every QB hit, or every time a player's head hits the ground.
You could take all the collisions out of the game, but it would become a fundamentally different sport.
I think the NFL had better start funneling vast sums of money into CTE reasearch or very soon they're going to see the sport start to whither. Parents won't let their kids play; schools won't be able to justify having teams; and insurance will become impossible or exorbitant. As much as we love the game, it can't go on if it's causing CTE in a large % of its players.
(The New York Times article on the study points out that the study doesn't prove at all that 99% of NFL players have CTE; but it does go a long way toward proving that NFL players get CTE at a much higher rate than the general population.)
This. Great post. Also what part of a players genetic pre disposition to disease states like Parkinson's, Alzheimer's , depression. Play a role in functional issues later in life.
4 guys go to the beach and sit in the sun all day. The fairer guys are most likely more apt to be at risk for skin cancer. Doesn't mean all 4 dont have the risk but we can guess easily that a guy who burns easily shouldn't go out like that or without sun screen. Same w this is my guess.
The brain is more complex than any other organ. We are still learning so much. Concussions are serious. But the they made it seem like a lot of the new rules to supposedly protect players ignore the biggest causes of long term brain injury. They are worried about WRs As compared to the increased risk to guys like linemen and LBs and Safeties and running backs.
LAstly if you are so concerned w this issue how can you watch the NFL if you feel the NFL hid this info. Or that it's a "brutal" sport. That you wouldn't let your kids play it. Seems odd to me.
I've had debates on this with hockey fans who insist that hockey is as physical or even more physical than football. It's not even close. There's "chippy" physicallity and "car crash" physicality. Big difference.
You realize that you can sustain damage to the brain without ever taking a shot to the head?
e.g. getting tackled in the shoulder and causing whip lash
Having actually played soccer as a youth I can tell you that the hits you take to your head are real. When you head the ball, its coming in at a serious velocity. It actually hurts....
Since soccer is a bigger international sport and is also implicated, I would recommend forming a policy position with them and let the public accept it or reject it. My bet is the world is less likely to reject soccer than the US is to reject football.
Since soccer is a bigger international sport and is also implicated, I would recommend forming a policy position with them and let the public accept it or reject it. My bet is the world is less likely to reject soccer than the US is to reject football.
Soccer could ban headers (or restrict them to the penalty area only) without fundamentally changing the sport. It would be a different version of soccer, but it would still be soccer.
American football without collisions would be a different game entirely. Imagine "tackling" as a 15-yard penalty and immediate ejection. When I played flag football in high school PE class, linemen rushed and blocked, and I can remember getting hit pretty hard; even that kind of contact would have to be banned. Collision-free "football" be unrecognizable.
Maybe Ultimate Frisbee will catch on, I dunno.
1. Eliminate tackle football for kids. These kids hit more than NFL players.
2. Limit hitting in HS football practices.
The issue is not the same for soccer players (or even rugby). They don't take consistent shots to the head and high speed impact.
No one listens; or perhaps no one wants to hear. It isn't high-speed collisions or hits to the head; it's ALL collisions, slow or fast, that create the problem over time. And just limiting hitting to College and above won't do fuck-all to ameliorate the problem.
I am not sure this will be enough, but teaching young kids how to tackle properly would help to start at the Pop Warner level on up.
I am not sure this will be enough, but teaching young kids how to tackle properly would help to start at the Pop Warner level on up.
Again, that won't do fuck-all. A collision is a collision in this case.
Beyond the Cheers: Can steroid use make concussions worst?
From the article:
This is very early stage stuff, but it would be interesting to see how severe CTE is from players who were playing in the 50's, 60's and 70's.
How can you say it wouldn't?
Eliminate tackle before 9th grade eliminate 5 years of hitting for some.
Restrict or eliminate hitting in practice in high school. That's years off.
The Dartmouth coach and others are eliminating hitting in practice. T helps.
Hitting in the NFL is restricted more than it is ln he pee wee and high school level. That should change. May not solve it but it cuts this number of hits to the head over many years.
The rugby tackling can make a difference. Instead of the tackler leading with the head and trying to rock the ball carrier, they just wrap and twist. It would reduce the impact on the head and over time it certainly adds up to less brain rocking into your skull.
I agree that the sport, meaning it's players, coaches and administrators need to continue to do what they can to minimize concussions. However the cries to ban the sport or radically change it because of CTE frighten me a bit. The article references the "incidence of CTE in the general population" but neither quantifies that nor explains how that was determined. I for one have never heard of a scientific study of deceased accountants or bartenders to see if they also had CTE. We test football players so we know it can show up there, or at least in the ones that are tested. However, until a true random, blind study is done there's no baseline to compare against. It could be simply that human beings get CTE, like we get arthritis and nearsightedness.
We certainly know about punch drunk boxers, but what about a soccer player, or the baseball player, etc.
by the time these guys reach the NFL - who knows how many concussions they've actually suffered. from what I understand 1 concussion just makes all subsequent concussions easier to get
scary stuff. I still don't know how these guys survive special teams plays ... I will never forget the blind sided hit I took on a punt return.
Go Giants ?
The other misconception is that changing helmets will prevent concussions. Regardless of headgear, your brain will get jarred and slam into your skull if you are running full speed and get hit full speed, regardless of whether or not the head is ever hit by the defender.
The problem is that for soccer, the most common head usage (headers) is easy to reduce/ban. For football, the head is hit on so many more plays that it will be nearly impossible to eliminate.
Football: 64 -76.8
Boys' ice hockey: 54
Girl's soccer: 33
Boys' lacrosse: 40 - 46.6
Girls' lacrosse: 31 - 35
Boys' soccer: 19 - 19.2
Boys' wrestling: 22 - 23.9
Girls' basketball: 18.6 - 21
Girls' softball: 16 - 16.3
Boys' basketball: 16 - 21.2
Girls' field hockey: 22 - 24.9
Cheerleading: 11.5 to 14
Girls' volleyball: 6 - 8.6
Boys' baseball: Between 4.6 - 5
Girls' gymnastics: 7
http://www.headcasecompany.com/concussion_info/stats_on_concussions_sports - ( New Window )