Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet)
7/25/17, 5:04 PM
The Jaguars made Brandon Linder the highest-paid center in @NFL history. He is signing a 5-year extension worth $51.7M, source said.
A new high-water mark has been set for starting OC. Jax just extended their center for 5 years for $51 MM - 24 MM guaranteed.
Weston has to be looking at the new contract and will look to match or likely exceed such a contract. Jax's center is the keystone of an OL that has Bortles running for his life.
as Richburg has a really solid year. And $32M guaranteed over 6 years (my thought here) is fine for me for Pugh if he finally stays healthy for a year.
RE: Just deleted my thread so I'll add my comment here -
A new high-water mark has been set for starting OC. Jax just extended their center for 5 years for $51 MM - 24 MM guaranteed.
Weston has to be looking at the new contract and will look to match or likely exceed such a contract. Jax's center is the keystone of an OL that has Bortles running for his life.
Pff for what it's worth, ranked jags line 13th in NFL heading into 2017 season and had this to say:
Quote:
This might be the most surprising ranking of any that our grades spit out. Carrying the unit is center Brandon Linder, who doesnt get talked about as much as he probably should. Hes turned into one of the games elite centers and has been extremely consistent since entering the league in 2014.
between Pugh/Righburg, then by a long shot, it is Weston. Last season, he had a wrist that he played through. Everyone points to the injury as a reason to his decline. But the year before, he just wasn't strong at the point of attack. Too often, he was pushed back. This year, he has a lot to prove to live up to expectations.
RE: RE: This is why I want the Giants to sign Richburg now
I expect him to breakout this season and if he does he will cost a lot more than if he signs now.
You are comfortable giving Weston $10 MM/yr?
I'm much more comfortable with 10-11 mill for Richburg than 13 mill for Pugh. I think Richburg is our biggest priority followed by Kennard and Pugh. Richburg showed he'll play if at all possible last year and he showed a willingness to hold people accountable. Can't say the same for Pugh as far as resilience goes.
That said, I hope there's a way they can retain both, but I don't know that there will be.
RE: RE: This is why I want the Giants to sign Richburg now
I expect him to breakout this season and if he does he will cost a lot more than if he signs now.
You are comfortable giving Weston $10 MM/yr?
Where did I say pay Weston 10 million. My point was that if they wait to sign after the season and he plays well he will cost at least this much. If they offer him 6-7 million annually now he would probably take it.
between Pugh/Righburg, then by a long shot, it is Weston. Last season, he had a wrist that he played through. Everyone points to the injury as a reason to his decline. But the year before, he just wasn't strong at the point of attack. Too often, he was pushed back. This year, he has a lot to prove to live up to expectations.
If you buy what PFF is selling, Richburg was their top-rated Center in 2015. They also said that in 2016, the torn tendons in his snapping hand severely affected his run-blocking, but that his pass-blocking was still very good. If it came down to signing Richburg or Pugh, I'd vote for Richburg without any hesitation based on his durability alone.
Availability is key. I am not one to rain praise on this current OL. I've been critical of Flowers and his technique, but one thing that you can't take away from him is he is a tough SOB. Gutting through the high ankle sprain as he did earned him some cred. You can go to battle with players like that. He is still horrible in his technique, but at least he suits up.
Now, with Weston, I like him. He plays through the injuries. Despite what the PFF rankings say, I still think he need to be stronger at the point of attack. I hate to see our center pushed back into Eli. It has been going on for years. Hopefully, Weston is fully healed (I haven't heard otherwise). Let him play out the year, and so long as he hasn't regressed while staying healthy, then pay him. We can't continually turn to the draft.
If the Giants were to make an offer this year, he might sign even if it's for less than what people are projecting for next year. In this game, you are one serious injury away from career ending. For a guy like Cousins to gamble on staying healthy is one thing, For an interior linemen to gamble is something else, I could see Richburg taking a legitimate offer now that would provide lifetime security for his family
Linder is 6'6 320 vs Richburg a small center 6'4 300. Richburg is also playing next to a small guard in Pugh. I don't like the idea of playing two smaller sized players next to each other. Let one go and get bigger either by the draft or free agency with the other position. If Fluker plays well sign him and let Pugh go.
you keep Richburg and let Pugh walk assuming Richburg has a good year. Pugh concussion history scares me. Obviously so much depends on who plays well, stays healthy, etc, this year. With Collins and ODB coming up somethings gotta give.
scares me too. I've had a feeling for a long time that he was not going to have a long career.
The NFL is wacky. I wouldn't be surprised if next year at this time we're talking about our strong young tackles and looking to switch Biscatanow (sp?, Wheeler, Jones (the ex def. tackle) or some other Wooley Mammoth inside.
I am almost always positive, but this year I'm giddy. There isn't one component of this team that I don't think is top draw. In fact, even our great team has had holes. This teams only projected weakness is the O line. But I think they're going to surprise. Year two with the same coach is right away an almost sure upgrade. I have to like Hart and Flowers. Jerry is an underrated professional..very good in pass protection and It seems to me effective when he pulls in the running game. His second year in that offseason camp and also his second year with this guy...
And finally there's depth. Gettis, Jones (the center), Fluker, Wheeler, Bisnowaty, Dunker, M. Bowie.
One or two players have to emerge from that crew.
Funny because when I look at the line my biggest concern is our supposed best player and I'm hoping Pugh makes it throught the season and has a great year.
Linder is 6'6 320 vs Richburg a small center 6'4 300. Richburg is also playing next to a small guard in Pugh. I don't like the idea of playing two smaller sized players next to each other. Let one go and get bigger either by the draft or free agency with the other position. If Fluker plays well sign him and let Pugh go.
Shaun O'Hara and Rich Seubert were both around 6-3, 300, and they were fine next to each other. Frankly, I'm hoping the Giants can make an LG out of Jessamen Dunker...maybe not this year, but for next year and beyond if they don't re-sign Pugh.
The real question imho is whether we can afford to resign Pugh AND Richburg next offseason.
Both are in line for big contracts, I guess we have this season for both to prove on the field that they are worth that kind of investment by NYG.
Looking at overthecap.com. NYG has an estimated $23,429,408b in space against the expected 2018 salary cap. In addition to Pugh and Richburg, we also have the likes of Shane Vereen, Orleans Darkwa, Shaun Draughn, Keenan Robinson, Devon Kennard, Jon Casillas, JT Thomas and Mark Herzlich, DJ Fluker, Devin Taylor, Jay Bromley off contract (among others). We will very likely need to invest some kind of resources at RB and LB at minimum.
You franchise Richburg. OBJ plays 2018 on the fifth year option, Pugh you try to extend but if it doesn't work out, oh well. There are no other major free agents after this season that a franchise tag would be considered for, and the tag on Richburg at one year will probably be a value.
You franchise Richburg. OBJ plays 2018 on the fifth year option, Pugh you try to extend but if it doesn't work out, oh well. There are no other major free agents after this season that a franchise tag would be considered for, and the tag on Richburg at one year will probably be a value.
The franchise tag has only OL position, meaning you pay the same amount for Centers and Guards as Left Tackles.
The 2017 Franchise Tag value for Offensive line is $14.271m. Is Richburg or Pugh worth that kind of money?
OBJ already has his $8.5m option for 2018 factored into the cap. If you put the tag on Richburg that will be around $14.5m out of the $23.5m cap room we have for 2018. Pugh is already on $8.8m this year, he is going to want quite a bit more.
This could result in issues at other positions. Take LB for example, Casillias, Robinson, Thomas, Kennard and Herlich are all off contract. Together they account for around $13.2m of our 2017 cap. If they all walk in free agency (because we resign Richburg and Pugh), that pretty much leaves just Goodsen as our LB corps.
I think it much more likely at this (way to early) point that we resign Richburg and let Pugh walk with Bisnowaty or Fluker stepping in.
Giants OL has sucked the whole time Richburg and Pugh
...I think it will be clear that Travis Frederick is still better-paid. The difference is that Frederick signed a $56MM extension, and then restructured after about six months. So he's had two bites of the new-money apple in the past year.
What's notable about Linder, as others have said, is that he raises the financial bar for pretty good interior linemen. The Jaguars aren't even sure whether he will play center or guard; but they have gobs of cap room, so they can afford to lock up some core players, even at prices that raise eyebrows and warm the hearts of agents around the League.
RE: Giants OL has sucked the whole time Richburg and Pugh
Linder is 6'6 320 vs Richburg a small center 6'4 300. Richburg is also playing next to a small guard in Pugh. I don't like the idea of playing two smaller sized players next to each other. Let one go and get bigger either by the draft or free agency with the other position. If Fluker plays well sign him and let Pugh go.
Generally, it isn't what all teams look for with interior linemen to be that tall or that heavy. Bulk is a matter of fit for team. They want athletes at OL who can trap and get upfield not lumbering heavies. Different team, different fit. Andy Reid just wants the five largest guys he can find to pave a road.
RE: Giants OL has sucked the whole time Richburg and Pugh
When he came to Giants because he was an undrafted fee agent.
Second contract he got better money because Giants were trying to hold together a championship OL.
Completely different situation from that they find themselves in now.
That said, I think we have to see how they play this year. Giants could have locked Pugh up and chose not to. Both guys have shown signs but neither has established himself as a consistently excellent player.
O'Hara came to the Giants in in 2004 after four years with the Browns, signing a three-year $5.4 million dollar contract, which wasn't too bad at the time. For O'Hara, though, it wasn't about the money - he wanted to play Center, which he felt was his best position, but the Browns wanted to keep him as a Guard. The Giants wanted him to play Center.
Three years later, in March 2007, O'Hara re-signed with the Giants (the day before he would have hit the free agent market). This time, though, it was very much about the money. The Giants had a $24 million dollar offer on the table, and it looked like O'Hara would sign it...until the Cowboys gave Andre Gurode a $30 million dolllar deal. Then it became a test of wills between O'Hara's agent, Tony Agnone, and Jerry Reese. I don't believe the final number was ever made public, but I seriously doubt O'Hara and Agnone let themselves get lowballed by Jerry Reese.
Bottom line, in the spring of 2007 there was no "championship O-Line" the Giants were trying to "hold together." They hadn't won a damned thing then. They also cut their starting LT, moved their LG over to take his place, and replaced him with a guy who'd been on IR for almost three years.
The situation with O'Hara and Gurode and what might happen with Richburg and Linder (or another UFA C) is very similar.
You franchise Richburg. OBJ plays 2018 on the fifth year option, Pugh you try to extend but if it doesn't work out, oh well. There are no other major free agents after this season that a franchise tag would be considered for, and the tag on Richburg at one year will probably be a value.
The franchise tag has only OL position, meaning you pay the same amount for Centers and Guards as Left Tackles.
The 2017 Franchise Tag value for Offensive line is $14.271m. Is Richburg or Pugh worth that kind of money?
OBJ already has his $8.5m option for 2018 factored into the cap. If you put the tag on Richburg that will be around $14.5m out of the $23.5m cap room we have for 2018. Pugh is already on $8.8m this year, he is going to want quite a bit more.
This could result in issues at other positions. Take LB for example, Casillias, Robinson, Thomas, Kennard and Herlich are all off contract. Together they account for around $13.2m of our 2017 cap. If they all walk in free agency (because we resign Richburg and Pugh), that pretty much leaves just Goodsen as our LB corps.
I think it much more likely at this (way to early) point that we resign Richburg and let Pugh walk with Bisnowaty or Fluker stepping in.
I didn't realize that, so I don't think that is a good idea. Hopefully we can work out an extension with Richburg that is reasonable. You can probably back load the hit to a contract and be ok. Obviously, the priority in any case has to be to work out a deal with OBJ long-term and keep him a Giant, hopefully for life.
A new high-water mark has been set for starting OC. Jax just extended their center for 5 years for $51 MM - 24 MM guaranteed.
Weston has to be looking at the new contract and will look to match or likely exceed such a contract. Jax's center is the keystone of an OL that has Bortles running for his life.
Will he be there at 32?
Quote:
Frank Ragnow.
Will he be there at 32?
Well played. 😍
You are comfortable giving Weston $10 MM/yr?
A new high-water mark has been set for starting OC. Jax just extended their center for 5 years for $51 MM - 24 MM guaranteed.
Weston has to be looking at the new contract and will look to match or likely exceed such a contract. Jax's center is the keystone of an OL that has Bortles running for his life.
Pff for what it's worth, ranked jags line 13th in NFL heading into 2017 season and had this to say:
This might be the most surprising ranking of any that our grades spit out. Carrying the unit is center Brandon Linder, who doesnt get talked about as much as he probably should. Hes turned into one of the games elite centers and has been extremely consistent since entering the league in 2014.
Quote:
I expect him to breakout this season and if he does he will cost a lot more than if he signs now.
You are comfortable giving Weston $10 MM/yr?
I'm much more comfortable with 10-11 mill for Richburg than 13 mill for Pugh. I think Richburg is our biggest priority followed by Kennard and Pugh. Richburg showed he'll play if at all possible last year and he showed a willingness to hold people accountable. Can't say the same for Pugh as far as resilience goes.
That said, I hope there's a way they can retain both, but I don't know that there will be.
Quote:
I expect him to breakout this season and if he does he will cost a lot more than if he signs now.
You are comfortable giving Weston $10 MM/yr?
Where did I say pay Weston 10 million. My point was that if they wait to sign after the season and he plays well he will cost at least this much. If they offer him 6-7 million annually now he would probably take it.
If you buy what PFF is selling, Richburg was their top-rated Center in 2015. They also said that in 2016, the torn tendons in his snapping hand severely affected his run-blocking, but that his pass-blocking was still very good. If it came down to signing Richburg or Pugh, I'd vote for Richburg without any hesitation based on his durability alone.
Now, with Weston, I like him. He plays through the injuries. Despite what the PFF rankings say, I still think he need to be stronger at the point of attack. I hate to see our center pushed back into Eli. It has been going on for years. Hopefully, Weston is fully healed (I haven't heard otherwise). Let him play out the year, and so long as he hasn't regressed while staying healthy, then pay him. We can't continually turn to the draft.
Now, Pugh on the other hand...
I know that some of my posts might strike some as being senile, but I'm not that old.
The NFL is wacky. I wouldn't be surprised if next year at this time we're talking about our strong young tackles and looking to switch Biscatanow (sp?, Wheeler, Jones (the ex def. tackle) or some other Wooley Mammoth inside.
I am almost always positive, but this year I'm giddy. There isn't one component of this team that I don't think is top draw. In fact, even our great team has had holes. This teams only projected weakness is the O line. But I think they're going to surprise. Year two with the same coach is right away an almost sure upgrade. I have to like Hart and Flowers. Jerry is an underrated professional..very good in pass protection and It seems to me effective when he pulls in the running game. His second year in that offseason camp and also his second year with this guy...
And finally there's depth. Gettis, Jones (the center), Fluker, Wheeler, Bisnowaty, Dunker, M. Bowie.
One or two players have to emerge from that crew.
Funny because when I look at the line my biggest concern is our supposed best player and I'm hoping Pugh makes it throught the season and has a great year.
Shaun O'Hara and Rich Seubert were both around 6-3, 300, and they were fine next to each other. Frankly, I'm hoping the Giants can make an LG out of Jessamen Dunker...maybe not this year, but for next year and beyond if they don't re-sign Pugh.
Both are in line for big contracts, I guess we have this season for both to prove on the field that they are worth that kind of investment by NYG.
Looking at overthecap.com. NYG has an estimated $23,429,408b in space against the expected 2018 salary cap. In addition to Pugh and Richburg, we also have the likes of Shane Vereen, Orleans Darkwa, Shaun Draughn, Keenan Robinson, Devon Kennard, Jon Casillas, JT Thomas and Mark Herzlich, DJ Fluker, Devin Taylor, Jay Bromley off contract (among others). We will very likely need to invest some kind of resources at RB and LB at minimum.
Paying them top money? Seriously?
2) effects of the Rookie Cap
More money to be had for the second contractS because it's available.
The franchise tag has only OL position, meaning you pay the same amount for Centers and Guards as Left Tackles.
The 2017 Franchise Tag value for Offensive line is $14.271m. Is Richburg or Pugh worth that kind of money?
OBJ already has his $8.5m option for 2018 factored into the cap. If you put the tag on Richburg that will be around $14.5m out of the $23.5m cap room we have for 2018. Pugh is already on $8.8m this year, he is going to want quite a bit more.
This could result in issues at other positions. Take LB for example, Casillias, Robinson, Thomas, Kennard and Herlich are all off contract. Together they account for around $13.2m of our 2017 cap. If they all walk in free agency (because we resign Richburg and Pugh), that pretty much leaves just Goodsen as our LB corps.
I think it much more likely at this (way to early) point that we resign Richburg and let Pugh walk with Bisnowaty or Fluker stepping in.
Anyone who thinks Jerry is dishing out 50 million for either of these guys just has not been paying attention
What's notable about Linder, as others have said, is that he raises the financial bar for pretty good interior linemen. The Jaguars aren't even sure whether he will play center or guard; but they have gobs of cap room, so they can afford to lock up some core players, even at prices that raise eyebrows and warm the hearts of agents around the League.
Anyone who thinks Jerry is dishing out 50 million for either of these guys just has not been paying attention
Because that's the new cost of O-lineman, and both players are not the problem. They are the keepers of the group.
Generally, it isn't what all teams look for with interior linemen to be that tall or that heavy. Bulk is a matter of fit for team. They want athletes at OL who can trap and get upfield not lumbering heavies. Different team, different fit. Andy Reid just wants the five largest guys he can find to pave a road.
Because Richburg is not the problem. He's one of the best Centers in the league and you don't let players like him walk.
Pugh's problem is his durability, which is why I would hesitate to give him the monster contract he won't shut up about.
Our OTs have been the problem, along with anyone who's had to fill in at LG when Pugh's been hurt.
Yeah...that's what "everyone" said about Shaun O'Hara after the Cowboys gave Andre Gurode a ridiculous contract.
LOL his name does that to me too. Thanks for the link I loved diver dan when I was about 4 living in a detroit suburb and haven't seen it since then.
Second contract he got better money because Giants were trying to hold together a championship OL.
Completely different situation from that they find themselves in now.
That said, I think we have to see how they play this year. Giants could have locked Pugh up and chose not to. Both guys have shown signs but neither has established himself as a consistently excellent player.
Three years later, in March 2007, O'Hara re-signed with the Giants (the day before he would have hit the free agent market). This time, though, it was very much about the money. The Giants had a $24 million dollar offer on the table, and it looked like O'Hara would sign it...until the Cowboys gave Andre Gurode a $30 million dolllar deal. Then it became a test of wills between O'Hara's agent, Tony Agnone, and Jerry Reese. I don't believe the final number was ever made public, but I seriously doubt O'Hara and Agnone let themselves get lowballed by Jerry Reese.
Bottom line, in the spring of 2007 there was no "championship O-Line" the Giants were trying to "hold together." They hadn't won a damned thing then. They also cut their starting LT, moved their LG over to take his place, and replaced him with a guy who'd been on IR for almost three years.
The situation with O'Hara and Gurode and what might happen with Richburg and Linder (or another UFA C) is very similar.
PFF Will Hernandez - ( New Window )
Quote:
You franchise Richburg. OBJ plays 2018 on the fifth year option, Pugh you try to extend but if it doesn't work out, oh well. There are no other major free agents after this season that a franchise tag would be considered for, and the tag on Richburg at one year will probably be a value.
The franchise tag has only OL position, meaning you pay the same amount for Centers and Guards as Left Tackles.
The 2017 Franchise Tag value for Offensive line is $14.271m. Is Richburg or Pugh worth that kind of money?
OBJ already has his $8.5m option for 2018 factored into the cap. If you put the tag on Richburg that will be around $14.5m out of the $23.5m cap room we have for 2018. Pugh is already on $8.8m this year, he is going to want quite a bit more.
This could result in issues at other positions. Take LB for example, Casillias, Robinson, Thomas, Kennard and Herlich are all off contract. Together they account for around $13.2m of our 2017 cap. If they all walk in free agency (because we resign Richburg and Pugh), that pretty much leaves just Goodsen as our LB corps.
I think it much more likely at this (way to early) point that we resign Richburg and let Pugh walk with Bisnowaty or Fluker stepping in.
I didn't realize that, so I don't think that is a good idea. Hopefully we can work out an extension with Richburg that is reasonable. You can probably back load the hit to a contract and be ok. Obviously, the priority in any case has to be to work out a deal with OBJ long-term and keep him a Giant, hopefully for life.