On paper, this looks like the best Giants team in quite awhile. The defense should be top notch again and the offense-with the additions of Marshall & Engram-should be much more explosive this season. The signing of Ellison should help with the running game.
The one concern I have is, unsurprisingly, is the OL. I've been encouraged about what I've read about Flowers & Hart this offseason, but we won't really know until the bullets start flying.
The schedule is a bitch & injuries are inevitable, but this team has the chance to a special one.
How you feeling about this Giants squad?
Pair that with a "hurry up" offense that should be outrageously good with 5 receiving threats for Eli. As has been the case his entire career, Eli can piddle-paddle through entire games but when he needs a score, he gets one.
A staunch D combined with an O that can go into "4 minute" and score almost at will is a tough combination. Despite the ridiculously tough schedule I think we go 11-5 minimum and win the NFC East.
Certain years are circled. You could see 2017 coming a mile away. Coughlin purged, McAdoo established, 2 straight years of great cap space. Eli (and Marshall) still young enough. Spags still here. Best secondary AND D-Line in the NFL.
Enjoy 2017. The stars have aligned for a great season moreso than any since 2008. Who knows when this happens again. It's already a special year just because it was always supposed to be one.
The Giants need their defense to match the level they played at last year, which won't be easy. They need the offensive line to somehow come together despite not having a lot of depth or talent.
I do think the running game will be improved, and I think Eli can bounce back and have a good year. Beckham should continue to mature, and McAdoo should be able to run the team better in his second year.
However, there's a lot of wildcards involved here. I feel like those talking the team up as a 12-4, 13-3 type of team are ignoring some pretty glaring weaknesses. I'm not saying that they'll go 6-10, but I do think we'll have to wait until late December to see if they land back in the playoffs.
This sums me up.
I almost feel too good... which, in turn, makes me nervous.
I felt like this about the Mets. I was like.. okay, Cespedes is back, Bruce will be better in a full year, we've got depth, the rotation is loaded, back end of the pen is strong - very few weaknesses. And here we are.
(I know, baseball on a football thread - blasphemy!)
But anyway. As Klaatu, I'd classify myself as cautiously optimistic.
On paper, I love the team we've assembled. But I know paper holds little weight when the bullets fly.
Injuries are always a year-to-year consideration, so there's that, but I love the way this team is built.
Quote:
Which in turn, makes me feel nervous.
This sums me up.
I almost feel too good... which, in turn, makes me nervous.
I felt like this about the Mets. I was like.. okay, Cespedes is back, Bruce will be better in a full year, we've got depth, the rotation is loaded, back end of the pen is strong - very few weaknesses. And here we are.
(I know, baseball on a football thread - blasphemy!)
But anyway. As Klaatu, I'd classify myself as cautiously optimistic.
On paper, I love the team we've assembled. But I know paper holds little weight when the bullets fly.
To be nervous when you feel good is just what it means to be a Giants fan. That's why for all of his faults, I like that Joe Buck says "no flags" when there's a big play because I always worry about some kind of screw up.
I say fuck that. McAdoo and Eli will solve the offense with our with or without better play from the offensive line. NFL Defenses will scramble to figure out a west coast passing attack featuring Odell, Shep, Marshall, Engram, and Vereen.
We have playoff caliber team, take the next step.
Lets hurry up before Eli's arm falls off...
Quote:
In comment 13539229 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
Which in turn, makes me feel nervous.
This sums me up.
I almost feel too good... which, in turn, makes me nervous.
I felt like this about the Mets. I was like.. okay, Cespedes is back, Bruce will be better in a full year, we've got depth, the rotation is loaded, back end of the pen is strong - very few weaknesses. And here we are.
(I know, baseball on a football thread - blasphemy!)
But anyway. As Klaatu, I'd classify myself as cautiously optimistic.
On paper, I love the team we've assembled. But I know paper holds little weight when the bullets fly.
To be nervous when you feel good is just what it means to be a Giants fan. That's why for all of his faults, I like that Joe Buck says "no flags" when there's a big play because I always worry about some kind of screw up.
Yep - I am conditioned to expect a flag every time a big play happens on our end. Nothing worse than seeing the yellow "FLAG" graphic pop up.
So, I'm going to say that they won't be good this year.
Will it be good enough to win the NFCE this time? I hope so.
MAYBE 2013....maybe, and that season was a total disaster in terms of personnel and transitioning from the core of the 2 SB rosters to the roster that has been built since.
I think he's more than capable of bouncing back this year, but it's certainly fair to point out some of his poor play last year. He wasn't awful but he's certainly been better.
Being the best player on the field (for NYG) once again in the playoffs in GB should have gone a long way to calming fears.
Why? Dunno. I just have a sense that the Giants are led by a coach who is looking to torch the league; has his hands firmly on the reins of his team; and has the talent in place to dominate games. Just so long as the offensive line plays at an average / "middle-of-the-pack" level, I see this Giants team going on a rampage.
Several opponents will come out of games this year wondering what the heck hit them!
It flew under the radar a bit, but I was impressed with him in his first year. I think we've got a good young coach here.
Will it be good enough to win the NFCE this time? I hope so.
I think the team could have a worse record despite having a better team. I'll feel better going into the playoffs this go round than last year, if the team gets there.
Quote:
I think we'll actually have the same record. 11-5.
Will it be good enough to win the NFCE this time? I hope so.
I think the team could have a worse record despite having a better team. I'll feel better going into the playoffs this go round than last year, if the team gets there.
I agree, it wouldn't surprise me if we went 10-6. I think 9-7 would be fairly disappointing for this group, though. If we win less than 10 games, something had to have gone wrong - injuries, Marshall being totally shot, Engram struggling mightily as a rookie, the OL being worse or not improving at all, etc.
I definitely don't expect a 13-3 type year. Not that it can't happen - history just says it won't. It's been over 25 years since NYG have posted a 13-win season, so..
I can't recall seeing the home division games stacked in such a manner, and I can't decide if it's an advantage or disadvantage. My first reaction is to say it's an advantage, but if you get to that point in the season at 5-7 it won't matter.
Don't tempt me!
Oline & DRC's health are big things to watch. I'm highly pessimistic about the former, I hope unjustifiably. Flowers' play is no secret and DC's will be gunning for him. Bosa then Von back to back weeks early on.
+1 for me.
I am a glass half full guy anyway and this team seems like a glass 3/4 full....but it is only July. All the hype "on paper" scares me with this team as they usually do better when no one is on the band wagon and they have a chip on their shoulders. I know they all read the NY hype, just hope they do not believe it and come out working hard and don't expect anyone to lay down for them. Remember, this is the Giants we are talking about, they never make it easy!
Quote:
Which in turn, makes me feel nervous.
This sums me up.
I almost feel too good... which, in turn, makes me nervous.
I felt like this about the Mets. I was like.. okay, Cespedes is back, Bruce will be better in a full year, we've got depth, the rotation is loaded, back end of the pen is strong - very few weaknesses. And here we are.
(I know, baseball on a football thread - blasphemy!)
But anyway. As Klaatu, I'd classify myself as cautiously optimistic.
On paper, I love the team we've assembled. But I know paper holds little weight when the bullets fly.
My feelings mirror yours, Arcarsenal. Giants this year have better depth than in 07 or 11. and it scares me. I well know as a very long-term Giant fan, that luck and injuries can play important roles in a season.
I am determined to be optimistic. It does not hurt. I am looking forward to a Super Bowl run. GO GIANTS!
However, half of our SB runs were expected and the other half, totally not.
The division is wide open and so is the conference. GB, Atlanta, Seattle and us or Dallas. Secure at least one home play-off game and stay healthy, and I see no reason we can't be playing in Feb.
We all saw the run on first down 85% of the time and if Ben feels he has all the tools, this team will come out throwing and attacking.
barring injuries, this roster is as good/better than any team in football. if engram is legit - this team is almost unfair.
Pair that with a "hurry up" offense that should be outrageously good with 5 receiving threats for Eli. As has been the case his entire career, Eli can piddle-paddle through entire games but when he needs a score, he gets one.
A staunch D combined with an O that can go into "4 minute" and score almost at will is a tough combination. Despite the ridiculously tough schedule I think we go 11-5 minimum and win the NFC East.
They have the weapons, but if you think back to the 4th quarter against the Eagles week 16 last year, they couldn't get anything going late because Eli was pressured with a 3 man rush on every play. The OL is still the Achilles heel and will need to be much improved for them to make a run in the playoffs.
The OL can't get any worse, can it? But Eli has more options and if these guys like Marshall, Engram, Ellison pan out, with the return of Vereen, this offense is going to score points.....
Only thing that can stop this team are key injuries....
This team will win the division.....it's record will be good enough for a first round bye.....
I must admit I am "gidie(fored)"!
but have fewer wins. They have a lot of travel this year,
for example. That is a bit concerning to me at least.
It flew under the radar a bit, but I was impressed with him in his first year. I think we've got a good young coach here.
Not trying to challenge you on this point, but I wonder if you can give an example or two from last season that made you feel this way about McAdoo? Personally, I came away thinking that he's got the potential to develop into a good to excellent coach, but it also looked to me like he was having some growing pains in terms of taking the reins of the whole team. In particular, I suspected that the offensive woes were at least in part due to some timidity and a lack of imagination on the part of the coaching staff.
Quote:
One thing that gave me a lot of confidence about last year is that I really felt McAdoo had a great feel for the team and gameflow in general. He seemed to really excel at the way he managed things in-game and had a knack for putting us in the best position to win football games.
It flew under the radar a bit, but I was impressed with him in his first year. I think we've got a good young coach here.
Not trying to challenge you on this point, but I wonder if you can give an example or two from last season that made you feel this way about McAdoo? Personally, I came away thinking that he's got the potential to develop into a good to excellent coach, but it also looked to me like he was having some growing pains in terms of taking the reins of the whole team. In particular, I suspected that the offensive woes were at least in part due to some timidity and a lack of imagination on the part of the coaching staff.
I thought McAdoo had a good feel for games and coached the team accordingly. He knew the defense was the strength of the team and played things very conservatively late in games and trusted them to close it out. It typically worked quite well.
I think everyone was frustrated by how limited the offense was last year, but I think McAdoo tried to minimize risk as much as possible to prevent losing games in the same types of ways we had lost a handful in recent years.
We played a "boring" field position game at a lot of points, but it worked.
I think he'll be more willing to open things up offensively now that we have some more weapons at Eli's disposal.
He wasn't perfect and growing pains are to be expected, but I think he got the most out of this team in 2016.
Huge Upgrade to the TE position
Improved OL play
Better RB group
Clutch QB
Returning D that was great last year
Upgrade at the Safety position
Returning, experienced coaching group
Motivated group of players
Low expectations by many of the NFL press
This is the Giants year!! They have to start out strong and finish strong. Superbowl has to be the goal as it will be hard to keep things together next year. There are far too many issues on the horizon for next year.
Amen. Barring a catastrophic injury, I don't see anyway Dallas matches up week 1.
If Eli can bounce back, this offense will be almost impossible to line up against. Can't wait to see Engram burn Sean Lee for a long TD ...
I like our team. Our defense is solid but will not be as good as last years, but it will not have to be. Our offense will score points this year.
Injuries are the great equalizer. Stay away from those and we will be pretty good. Th only other concern for me is our schedule. Its pretty difficult. Those west coast games are not going to be easy. If we can take that first game at Dallas and that first Eagles road game I will be very happy.
If Flowers steps up and Fluker delivers, I think we have a good shot to make a serious run.
I liked his season as well, even in the face of many bitching about the play-calling. There were some burps and growing pains, to be expected. But I think the players are taking to his no-nonsense approach, fairness, honesty, willingness to protect his players even if their behavior was suspect in public, a refreshing breeze. If he did not earn their trust and respect last season, that's on the players--hopefully, they make better off the lines decisions.
I think most of us agree that improvement from the OL is key--and if that doesn't prove out there appear to be few in-season adjustments or moves that can be made to make a difference. Is the TE corps going to make a difference? Is Ellison healthy and ready. Is LaCosse going to be healthy? At this point, I have no confidence that Adams becomes a consistent factor in-line.
The team was able to overcome the weak LBs and weakness at FS that Doomster points out. He is right of course: can DT (both of them) see and stay on the field; can our new MLB play the position at this level?
I think this team has all the tools to be very successful. However, a lot of the games are close in today's NFL. Winning is a habit, so is losing. Each year is different.
My greatest concern is turnovers. We will be good if we have a good turnover ratio. People who say they worry about Eli or the O-line are really worried about turnovers IMO. Bad OL play leads to bad QB play, leads to turnovers, leads to losses.
The new parts on defense worked out okay last year, so let's hope we get something similar from the new parts on offense this year.
One thing I think we don't lack is leadership, on both sides of the ball, and that should help us mesh fairly quickly.
It seems Giants are counting on the Young OL to improve. Let's hope they done cause if the OL is solid Giants can win it all. But imo that is a big "if" Bot sold on OL being good
I agree Jon, I get really annoyed when I see a fan say, "well, eli has to play better". Ok, well why do you think he wasn't playing well in the first place? Once Eli trusts his OL, and then he still makes the mistakes, that would be different. I'm confident that if the OL gains Eli's trust, he'll bounce back in a big way. Of course then you'll have fans saying ELI is back! Without giving credit to the OL for protecting him, or realizing there was probably a reason beyond his control that he was struggling in the first place.
I liked his season as well, even in the face of many bitching about the play-calling. There were some burps and growing pains, to be expected. But I think the players are taking to his no-nonsense approach, fairness, honesty, willingness to protect his players even if their behavior was suspect in public, a refreshing breeze. If he did not earn their trust and respect last season, that's on the players--hopefully, they make better off the lines decisions.
I think most of us agree that improvement from the OL is key--and if that doesn't prove out there appear to be few in-season adjustments or moves that can be made to make a difference. Is the TE corps going to make a difference? Is Ellison healthy and ready. Is LaCosse going to be healthy? At this point, I have no confidence that Adams becomes a consistent factor in-line.
The team was able to overcome the weak LBs and weakness at FS that Doomster points out. He is right of course: can DT (both of them) see and stay on the field; can our new MLB play the position at this level?
Goodson and Darian Thompson are definitely two guys who can make this an elite defense if they are a) healthy and b) pan out.
Goodson doesn't need to be a 3 down LB'er - if he's a 2-down thumper, that will still greatly benefit the defense. Robinson is a guy we need to stay on the field because he's our best coverage LB.
The TE group will be a fun follow this summer. I like the odds of us coming up with a much better group than we had last year. Donnell will be addition by subtraction. All of the dopey front flips and fumbling are things we can leave in the past.
NYG doesn't have a perfect roster, but I'd say we are probably less flawed than most NFL teams at this juncture.
Again, "on paper" means little when the pads go on - but it's all we got right now.
I'm pretty darn excited for this thing to get started.
then we have something...
The most efficient way to the Super Bowl is through winning the division. Whether that requires 8-8 or 14-2, winning the NFCE is the goal.
2. QB play. Eli should still be good enough to manage this offense. I think he'll play a lot like Brady and the Pats do by taking what the defense gives and being patient. Let our defense still win us the games by playing smart AND by scoring TD's in the redzone.
3. OL, especially OT's, how good will they be? I can only predict great improvement given how bad they were last year.
I'm sticking with my 12 - 4 and SB. I'm a Giants fan.
I'd feel better if we'd done more to upgrade the O-Line. We made a few minor moves but nothing to really feel confident we'll have more than marginal improvement based on the track records of the players involved. We're basically banking on upgrades through the play of Flowers, Fluker, Hart and maybe Bisnowaty down the line. That's wishful thinking rather than realistic projection imo.
Still not satisfied with the CB depth as well. Yeah the top 3 are fantastic, but beyond that there is a lot to worry about.
That's about it.The 'D' should be very good.
Marshall, Ellison, Engram and the Perkins/Gallman tandem may provide better performance resulting in an upgrade to our anemic points per game and time of possession from last season. The potential is there but the ceiling will be hard capped if the O-Line plays like last season.
Start with the eleven wins last year and then consider every component on this team should be significantly better.
This is the best front four...maybe ever. 2007 with Stray, Osi and Tuck might be marginally better, but they didn't have anyone like Snacks. And we haven't seen the best of either Vernon or JPP. And as much as i like the fifties Kat and Andy werent' in this class.
This is the best defensive backfield that the Giants have ever have, the best in the league and has the potential to be one of the best of all time. Outlandish? Not a bit. Eli Apple and D. Thompson have all star potential. Eli maybe the potential for brilliant. Cromartie remains quiet and vastly underrated. He is also an underrated blitzer. Collins the best safety in the game and Jackrabbit extremely good. Imagine our weak point was Adams who was rated the fourth best in the game in his rookie year and likely won't start.
Eli Apple showed everything...speed size I honestly expect the type of quantum improvement we saw in Collins in his second year. Eli Apple is our third corner...Unheard for Elvis Patterson.
Bradshaw's Steelers with Mel Blount and company were all time good, this group belongs in the conversation.
In my giddiness the potential continues. I found it almost comical when an earlier post argued that the Plax, Toomer, Manningham was our greatest receiving corp...Because it's not remotely close unless Mules can race Sectretariat. Plax was great, he doesn't compare to Marshall who is a borderline HOF rgiht now. And OBJ is in a class of his own... Shepard much better than Manninghame after this year and, as if it wasn't enough, the rookie TE could move this to an immortal corp - and not just the best the Giants ever had. Fout's Chargers and The Rams of a couple years ago with Marshall Faulk are the only groups that compare with the potential of what we're bring to the league this yewar. Even our scraps could make a banquet for the hungry....King projects as a fine NFL player and Ellison is underrated as a pass catcher.
We've won with Chase Blackburn at MLB'er in '11 and Jeff Torberg and Mitchell in 07. They wouldn't make this roster. If not great we have very competent linebackers and Goodson could be a huge upgrade while Robinson and Kennard might have break out years.
I simply dont think people understand how good this crew could be. They were adequate last year and Goodson could be special and after his first year really playing Kennard make exponential gains we expect from second year players and could a rush from the edge that we need on certain passin downs. My perhpas unsubstantiated hunch is that Moss has the quickness and will be playing that role early on.
So we come down the projected weakness with the O line. We're hoping for adequate, I think we'll get "good".
1. Ellison alone helps
2. Big projected upgrade Jennings to Perkins
3. Second year under the same Offensive line coach.
4. Rickenberg likely much better.
5. Hart and Flowers are almost certainly better...the offseason work out, the dedication revealed and the natural and significant improvements kids make when they go from 22 to 23.
6. Jerry has spent his sevond year in that specialized camp.
7. I like the Canadian Jones, he's comin to camp at 318 and with a year of NFL under his belt I think this is nice player.
Disclaimer: Pugh's health scares me. If, in fact, he stays healthy I think this group moves from bad past adequate to good.
A team with 11 wins and a rookie head coach had eleven wins last year. And SHOULD get significantly better in every facet of the game....
Oh yes, and has the best money QB in the game.
Lots can go wrong, but everything here is a reasonable projection and much more likely than not.
That said, the 2017 Giants look better entering camp than any squad since at least 2011, probably 2008. They have the look of serious contenders for the first time since 2012; but, like any NFL team, these Giants are a few key injuries and bad bounces away from 6-10.
Maybe if we lost Eli...but that's the only way.
What makes me optimistic this year is that I think we have quality depth at nearly all positions: only the OL and QB spots seem skimpy to me. The "next man up" philosophy actually means something this year, as even injuries to non-QB starters and stars can be addressed to some extent by 2nd stringers.
Losing OBJ and Eli would be tough to overcome. Losing Snacks, Jackrabbit, and Collins would also be hard. But I like what I've seen of and heard about their replacements.
I think we take the NFC East this year (and I never predict this, ever) with double-digit wins, even against tough competition. I would not be surprised to see this team go deep into the playoffs, too.