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Stacked at TE? maybe

Thegratefulhead : 8/3/2017 4:45 pm
Hope to see a lot of 2 TE sets. Bring in people to cover the TEs we run, bring in people to stop the run we pass...kinda like what NE does.
Don't jinx it man ...  
Beer Man : 8/3/2017 4:47 pm : link
In the past when we said we were stacked at a position, it seemed too often the injury bug would then make sure that we were not.
The Giants have been practicing a lot of 2-TE looks.  
Klaatu : 8/3/2017 4:52 pm : link
Even some 2-TE and 1 FB looks. It's a welcome change from last year.
Switch Flowers and Tye  
Rocky369 : 8/3/2017 4:52 pm : link
?
Even if no one gets hurt  
pjcas18 : 8/3/2017 5:03 pm : link
I'm not sure stacked is the term I'd use yet anyway.

Engram has 0 NFL snaps
Ellison is a mediocre to plus blocking TE
Adams is raw
Tye is mediocre, but seems good because of Donnell
LaCosse hasn't been off a practice squad
and Herzlich hasn't played TE in a game either.

Not exactly conjuring up images of Bavaro and Mowatt or even Shockey and Shiancoe.

pjcas18  
Klaatu : 8/3/2017 5:09 pm : link
Actually, Matt LaCosse was promoted off the PS at the end of the 2015 season. He got in a couple of games and caught three passes.
I would think Ellison  
Glover : 8/3/2017 5:10 pm : link
will be on the field for most snaps. So Engram will make it a 2 TE formation, technically, but he would mainly be in the slot, unless they lined him up in the flank. It's all good. Whether he is a TE or a slot WR, the Giants offense can keep defenses guessing if they can run the ball. They are best with their best players on the field, Beckham, Marshall, Shepard, and Engram. Those guys will keep the safeties deep, and if the run is successful, and safeties creep up, oh boy.
I agree that it's quality, not quantity.  
81_Great_Dane : 8/3/2017 5:12 pm : link
But it's good to see talent at the position and a bunch of guys competing for spots. That can only be good. For once, it seems unlikely the Giants will be scanning other teams' camp cuts for their third tight end.
RE: pjcas18  
pjcas18 : 8/3/2017 5:15 pm : link
In comment 13548977 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Actually, Matt LaCosse was promoted off the PS at the end of the 2015 season. He got in a couple of games and caught three passes.


thank you for the correction, I would make the same response with the LaCosse edit.
Stacked? No.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/3/2017 5:59 pm : link
Stacked means having more than a couple of players good enough to be starters.
Ellison and Engram are locks, of course.  
Klaatu : 8/3/2017 6:07 pm : link
And Ellison appears to be a much more fluid receiver than I figured he'd be.

According to Sy, of the three other TEs with a shot at making the team, LaCosse looks like the best receiver, Adams looks like the best blocker, and Tye looks quicker and faster than he was last year. The competition can only help.
They're about as stacked  
David B. : 8/3/2017 11:49 pm : link
as Calista Flockhart.

Engram's a rookie
Ellison's best known for blocking
Adams is still a fairly green "project"
LaCosse hadn't done shit yet
Will Tye couldn't start on another team in the NFL.

Not exactly Bavaro, Mowatt, and Cross.

The best thing that has happened to the TE group since last year is that Donnell is falling over and fumbling for another team now. That and bringing in a couple of FBs -- one of whom will hopefully send Tye packing.

Both Ellison and LaCosse have a history of injuries  
Milton : 8/4/2017 12:05 am : link
...which concerns me. And at this point in their careers, I consider Tye and Adams one-dimensional, but they are still young with the potential for improvement in their areas of weakness. And Engram is a rookie with much to learn about the TE position that they didn't teach him at Ole Miss. So there are a lot of possibilities, but also a lot of uncertainty surrounding the position.
Ellison has only missed two games in the past three years.  
Klaatu : 8/4/2017 7:22 am : link
His only serious injury occurred in 2013. It's early, but so far he's looked very good, both as a blocker and and as a receiver, exactly what the Giants were hoping for when they signed him.

Engram is a rookie, sure, and like most rookies he still has a lot to learn, but the early reports sound ridiculously promising. It's more than just his athleticism, which is amazing. Seems like his nose has been buried in the playbook from day one and that's paying dividends already.

Last year, prior to the draft, Sy had this to say about Adams:
Quote:
I was ready to have a 2nd round grade on Adams. Talent wise I think he has the goods to be a big time matchup problem for opposing defenses. Speed and length with nice ball skills are always a good combination. I got some information on Adams inability to stay consistent off the field, however. He doesnít work hard and didnít take care of his business. People from his own camp were pretty down on him. Thatís rare because itís usually the other way around to a fault. Upside is enormous with this kid if he can turn that around.


Seems to me that Adams has made a concerted effort this year to "turn that around." While being a bit critical of his pass-catching, Sy has praised his blocking on more than one occasion. I figure his arrow is definitely pointing up.

Matt LaCosse has been teasing us for several years now. We know he can run and catch, but he just hasn't been able to stay healthy. This is probably his last shot with the Giants, so let's see if he makes the most of it.

I've been as critical of Will Tye as anyone. I doubted that he'd even make the team this year, but that may have been premature. Sounds like he's having a good camp so far.

So, maybe "stacked" isn't exactly the right word to describe the Giants' TE corps, but the group is hardly the collection of cast-offs and no-names that it has been in the recent past. There's talent here - a lot of it. There's real competition. For this group, as much if not more than for any other, the preseason games will be a major factor in deciding who stays and who goes. Tough decisions lie ahead and that's a good thing. That's also something we haven't been able to say in far too long.
Here is the following reason that the  
gidiefor : Mod : 8/4/2017 8:48 am : link
TE's are stacked and a vastly improved group

1 - Rhett Ellison was added a veteran legitimate two-way tight end, who much like Bennett was behind an established vet and asked to play a bit role. He has great hands, catches everything thrown his way very smoothly and he is an experienced and accomplished blocker both at the Fullback and TE position. (Haven't had someone like this on the team since Bennett)

2 - First rounder, Engram, added with mad speed, great hands and exceptional athletic ability - he has superstar written all over him and he's shown that he's a spirited and a very willing blocker.

3 - Last year's draft pick is not a bust -- he has developed excellent blocking skills - he also can catch and is getting better at his assignments. With Ellison around he's going to have someone he can school on and develop into. He has the body to be an Ellison like TE.

4 - Tye and LaCosse do not have to be relied on and can play bit roles -- Tye is a solid if unspectacular player - who is a reliable alternative if the first three go down. LaCosse --- it is unlikely LaCosse sticks -- maybe he stays on the practice squad -- but he could be a bit player if healthy. He's not spectacular or a great blocker either but he's a willing blocker and he can catch.

all this represents vast improvement fellas - we are not starting the season with Donnell starting and Tye as his only real backup
I took this post  
Keith : 8/4/2017 8:56 am : link
as saying we have a lot of potential at the position and I agree. He's not saying we are stacked, thats why the "?" and the "maybe".
If you keep Ellison on the field for a majority of snaps  
Bob in Newburgh : 8/4/2017 9:00 am : link
on passing downs when you could be lining up OBJ, Marshall, Shepard, and Engram, Vereen in backfield

then you are stupidly throwing away a matchup advantage.
I think the Giants are very thin  
pjcas18 : 8/4/2017 9:04 am : link
at TE.

High expectations for rookies, even one as heralded as Engram is risky.

After that, meh, potential is potential until it's not.

could all work out perfectly and TE becomes a strength but no I would not answer the question today the Giants are stacked at TE.

If there was a ranking of TE groups around the league Giants are at best middle of the pack, probably in the 20's. today.

Could change in a year, but that's a lot of projection.
The expectations for Engram  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/4/2017 9:09 am : link
Don't need to be that high. You're referencing fan expectations, which are pretty volatile.

He just needs to be better than what was on the field last year, which frankly isnt a high bar. The season doesn't pivot on what Engram does in 2017. There are a good sized list of things more important to the success of this year's team.
RE: The expectations for Engram  
gidiefor : Mod : 8/4/2017 9:18 am : link
In comment 13549423 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Don't need to be that high. You're referencing fan expectations, which are pretty volatile.

He just needs to be better than what was on the field last year, which frankly isnt a high bar. The season doesn't pivot on what Engram does in 2017. There are a good sized list of things more important to the success of this year's team.


Ten Ton - the Giants are fully expecting Engram to be a contributor this year -- he's been getting a lot of first team reps as well as second team and third team reps -- he's been on the field more than any other TE in Camp, and he's been producing very consistently
You can tell a guy  
Keith : 8/4/2017 9:25 am : link
has NFL caliber talent in camp and Engram does.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/4/2017 9:30 am : link
What fucking irony here.

Quote:
You can tell a guy is producing from training camp? Oh brother.


Didn't you spend most of yesterday freaking out about Flowers?
RE: The expectations for Engram  
pjcas18 : 8/4/2017 9:30 am : link
In comment 13549423 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Don't need to be that high. You're referencing fan expectations, which are pretty volatile.

He just needs to be better than what was on the field last year, which frankly isnt a high bar. The season doesn't pivot on what Engram does in 2017. There are a good sized list of things more important to the success of this year's team.


to be better than the Giants TE's last year is not "stacked" it's what I'd call mediocre.

I guess the word stacked is what I have an issue with.

Improved? Sure.

Stacked, even potentially, is not a leap I'd make today.
pj  
gidiefor : Mod : 8/4/2017 9:50 am : link
it may interest you to know that McAdoo says the TE corps is "vastly improved"
Some of you guys kill me.  
Klaatu : 8/4/2017 9:51 am : link
For years we lamented the fact that Jerry Reese ignored the TE position until day three of the draft, and hardly ever signed a decent UFA TE except for that one year with Bennett. Projects like Robinson, UDFAs out the proverbial wazoo, and the worst TE corps in the league were SOP.

So now he goes out and signs a very good blocking TE who looks like he's going to be a pretty good receiver too, and he invests a 1st round pick on the most dynamic and versatile TE this team has had in recent memory, AND it looks like the flyer he took on last year's 6th round pick is starting to pay off...and still you're not satisfied.

For cryin' out loud, let the summer play out. It's still a week until the first preseason game. I know "potential" is a dirty word, but if you can't see it with this group then we're just not on the same wavelength.
RE: Some of you guys kill me.  
pjcas18 : 8/4/2017 10:14 am : link
In comment 13549475 Klaatu said:
Quote:
For years we lamented the fact that Jerry Reese ignored the TE position until day three of the draft, and hardly ever signed a decent UFA TE except for that one year with Bennett. Projects like Robinson, UDFAs out the proverbial wazoo, and the worst TE corps in the league were SOP.

So now he goes out and signs a very good blocking TE who looks like he's going to be a pretty good receiver too, and he invests a 1st round pick on the most dynamic and versatile TE this team has had in recent memory, AND it looks like the flyer he took on last year's 6th round pick is starting to pay off...and still you're not satisfied.

For cryin' out loud, let the summer play out. It's still a week until the first preseason game. I know "potential" is a dirty word, but if you can't see it with this group then we're just not on the same wavelength.


Not sure if you mean me, but maybe I misunderstood the op or you are misunderstanding what I'm saying.

I am satisfied with the investment of Ellison, Engram, Adams, etc. I'm just not prepared to say well the investment has panned out.

I mean we've all seen the Giants draft tight ends that didn't pan out and we've all seen Reese draft players who don't pan out.

So rather than say yeah I think we're stacked at TE, I feel like the group is improved and let's see these guys on the field before concluding if the Giants are stacked at the position or not.

I think Gronkowski and Martellus Bennett is stacked.
pjcas18  
Klaatu : 8/4/2017 10:25 am : link
I think some of you are hung up on the word "stacked," which was clearly a question in the OP, not a definitive statement. Reminds me of a thread I started about Fullbacks not too long ago using the word "smashmouth," and some folks got hung up on that word, too.

Anyway, the Giants have put together a talented group of TEs, much more so than in recent years. Yes, they have a lot to prove, but it seems to me that they're all off to a good start. Collectively, they've impressed everyone who's had the opportunity to watch them practice, and to me that's certainly a welcome change.
RE: pjcas18  
pjcas18 : 8/4/2017 10:38 am : link
In comment 13549522 Klaatu said:
Quote:
I think some of you are hung up on the word "stacked," which was clearly a question in the OP, not a definitive statement. Reminds me of a thread I started about Fullbacks not too long ago using the word "smashmouth," and some folks got hung up on that word, too.

Anyway, the Giants have put together a talented group of TEs, much more so than in recent years. Yes, they have a lot to prove, but it seems to me that they're all off to a good start. Collectively, they've impressed everyone who's had the opportunity to watch them practice, and to me that's certainly a welcome change.


Yeah, I'm sure it's the word stacked, even as a ? I'm not sure I'd say yes.

if the OP said improved, absolutely.

And it's just my opinion, hopefully next year this time we're saying wow, Giants are stacked at TE.
? maybe  
Thegratefulhead : 8/4/2017 11:57 am : link
OP here. I am an optimistic guy. Based on what the coaches have been saying and people I trust I FEEL it is POSSIBLE we could be stacked at TE. I think TE is a position that if you have exceptional athletes you can exploit a defense with mismatches. They cannot be covered by linebackers and smaller cover people are easily blocked by them. We do not expect our OL to be dominant. Mismatches at the TE position can help IMO. I think we could go 3 TE at times with Ellison in the backfield. Say Engram (LaCosse/Adams) & Ellison. It would give defenses something else to have prepare for. Last year a defense could spend all its time preparing for 11 personnel. It allowed them to play faster and be more prepared. I am hopeful. I am positive about the potential of our TEs...I have not felt that way in a VERY long time.
RE: I think the Giants are very thin  
Jersey55 : 8/7/2017 11:30 am : link
In comment 13549415 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
at TE.

High expectations for rookies, even one as heralded as Engram is risky.

After that, meh, potential is potential until it's not.

could all work out perfectly and TE becomes a strength but no I would not answer the question today the Giants are stacked at TE.

If there was a ranking of TE groups around the league Giants are at best middle of the pack, probably in the 20's. today.

Could change in a year, but that's a lot of projection.


I agree that a team doesn't win football games with potential, results is what counts.
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