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Walter Football After draft power rankings

fredgbrown : 8/4/2017 6:22 pm
Is this guy an Eagles fan or what? He doesn't have a nice thing to say about the Giants and they are his most overrated team from last year at no 19. He has Philly at number 6 and the most underrated team. I know it is early and all but there is no way the Eagles should be in anybodys top 10 going into 2017.
Link - ( New Window )
He could be an Eagles fan  
EddieNYG : 8/4/2017 6:28 pm : link
But he certainly is a Giants hater putting them at 19.
Dude  
Optimus-NY : 8/4/2017 6:28 pm : link
A hole will open up in the space-time continuum before the Eagles win a Super Bowl. Fuck them and fuck this guy.
Wow  
OntheRoad : 8/4/2017 6:41 pm : link
Just wow.
Talk to me in January, not August  
Sec 103 : 8/4/2017 6:44 pm : link
!
People can say what they want.  
81_Great_Dane : 8/4/2017 6:45 pm : link
If the Giants win 11 or more games and make the playoffs, that will speak for itself. If they win 9 or fewer games and don't make the playoffs, that will, too.
I was listening to WIP last night and some moron  
Larry in Pencilvania : 8/4/2017 7:11 pm : link
Said the GIANTS are the most overrated team and all the eagles need to do is trade for a solid CB and they are playoff bound
Rams at 32?  
madgiantscow009 : 8/4/2017 7:18 pm : link
I had them at 35.
RE: Rams at 32?  
section125 : 8/4/2017 7:21 pm : link
In comment 13550051 madgiantscow009 said:
Quote:
I had them at 35.


Meh, you have them overrated.
He must be from Pennsylvania.  
Klaatu : 8/4/2017 7:28 pm : link
Philly at #6 and Pittsburgh at #3? Yeah...okay.
Well they were right on that the Giants reached  
Jimmy Googs : 8/4/2017 7:55 pm : link
in picking Engram in round 1
Eagles  
WillVAB : 8/4/2017 8:16 pm : link
I think they'll turn some heads this year. They're not better than the Giants but I wouldn't be surprised if they were in the hunt for a WC. Much more worried about them than Dallas.
Walter is from the Philly area in PA.  
wgenesis123 : 8/5/2017 4:47 am : link
I have him on Facebook and there is no doubt in my mind he is an Eagle fan. He used to try and hide his bias but in the last couple years that has changed. His opinions on the NFC East are useless.
RE: Well they were right on that the Giants reached  
Gatorade Dunk : 8/5/2017 6:03 am : link
In comment 13550077 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
in picking Engram in round 1

How so?
I feel the Eagle are somewhat underrated.....or better said  
George from PA : 8/5/2017 6:19 am : link
the Cowboys are overrated

his blind spot to the Eagle shortcoming
besides the point.....they should be decent if Wentz develops....who I feel has a bigger upside to Dak....washington should not be discounted either

But it's all mute if our OL improves....going into their 3rd year together should mean sonething....the Giants have the best roster going into the season

RE: Well they were right on that the Giants reached  
BigBlueShock : 8/5/2017 7:56 am : link
In comment 13550077 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
in picking Engram in round 1

If he was their highest rated player at the time they picked, how was that a reach? Because CBS and ESPN "experts" wrongly decided pre draft that he would go lower? This narrative of guys sitting on their couch reading some clowns on websites and deciding players that they know nothing about are reaches is old and stale. But Jimmy Googs didn't like the pick, so it must be a reach!
But BigBlueShock liked the pick  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2017 8:26 am : link
so then it couldn't be a reach? And how do you know Engram was their highest rated player versus a position that they desperately needed an upgrade?

And why does everybody think I sit on my couch when I read about football? I almost always do it at my desk in my home office...

Haha  
UConn4523 : 8/5/2017 8:29 am : link
still on the whole reach thing huh? Whatever helps you sleep I guess. Giants were definitely the only team high on Engram...
RE: But BigBlueShock liked the pick  
BigBlueShock : 8/5/2017 8:37 am : link
In comment 13550264 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
so then it couldn't be a reach? And how do you know Engram was their highest rated player versus a position that they desperately needed an upgrade?

And why does everybody think I sit on my couch when I read about football? I almost always do it at my desk in my home office...

Did I say I liked the pick? There were other players I thought they would go with but I'm going to go ahead and trust the Giants on their knowledge of the best player available to them much more than you or me. They put a hell of a lot more time into the process than we did, ya know?

Here's a little clue, if Engram was not going to be available for them at their next pick, it is NOT a freaking reach. And there were plenty of rumors that teams were trying to move up for Engram as the draft unfolded, too, so there's that. I'm convinced that you just like to type the word "reach" since you do it so often and obviously have no clue of the meaning
And when did i say I didn't like the pick?  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2017 8:43 am : link
Also wonder if its possible that rumors are just that...rumors. And get spread to try and force their own agenda.
And because Engram might not have been available  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2017 8:48 am : link
at #55 is the answer why he wasn't a reach at #23?

So value is the same over a 32-pick range then...
RE: And when did i say I didn't like the pick?  
BigBlueShock : 8/5/2017 8:49 am : link
In comment 13550272 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Also wonder if its possible that rumors are just that...rumors. And get spread to try and force their own agenda.

You'll just keep spinning things to fit your incredibly off base narrative so I'll just let you continue on your own. Your right, nobody else wanted Engram and the Giants took an inferior player that they didn't like because they just can't help themselves and their addiction to drafting TEs in the first round...

What a weird mindset you have.

RE: And because Engram might not have been available  
UConn4523 : 8/5/2017 9:40 am : link
In comment 13550274 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
at #55 is the answer why he wasn't a reach at #23?

So value is the same over a 32-pick range then...


55 isn't even a question, he's likely not making it to he end of the first or even the late 20s. Not sure what's so hard to believe about that.
And IIRC  
UConn4523 : 8/5/2017 9:41 am : link
your entire argument on this was based off of mocks...
RE: RE: And because Engram might not have been available  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2017 10:05 am : link
In comment 13550284 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13550274 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


at #55 is the answer why he wasn't a reach at #23?

So value is the same over a 32-pick range then...



55 isn't even a question, he's likely not making it to he end of the first or even the late 20s. Not sure what's so hard to believe about that.


Similarly, whats so hard to believe that he could have been available at the beginning of rd2? Yeah, we don't have a pick there but thats when an opportunity could arise to take advantage of if Engram is your guy, or another cluster of players work for you at #23.
RE: And IIRC  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2017 10:08 am : link
In comment 13550285 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
your entire argument on this was based off of mocks...


Is yours based off all the GMs that showed you their draft boards? Or the rumors that some teams leaked to their beat-writers about tight ends? its all the same shit...
The Giants have 8 Pro Bowlers who are lkely to be there again  
BillT : 8/5/2017 10:08 am : link
Guys who have been there and have a good chance to go again. OBJ, Eli, OV, Snacks, JPP, Jackrabbit, DRC and Collins. They also have Marshall who's been there multiple times and guys like Richburg who have a good chance. This on a team that went 11-5. How does that make us the worst team/talent in the NFCE no matter who we drafted. This team is better man for man than any team in the NFCE. It's not even really that close.
Googs  
UConn4523 : 8/5/2017 10:20 am : link
mine is based off of Sy and Dave Tes rankings and insight, mainly. The fact that the mocks you read outweigh actual work being done by member of this board who know way more than you do.

Based on their findings and TEs being coveted this year by many teams, no, I don't think Engram lasts past the first round and likely not past the browns at 29.

So apply whatever label you want, there's zero evidence to support your opinion.
RE: RE: And IIRC  
BigBlueShock : 8/5/2017 10:47 am : link
In comment 13550289 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13550285 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


your entire argument on this was based off of mocks...



Is yours based off all the GMs that showed you their draft boards? Or the rumors that some teams leaked to their beat-writers about tight ends? its all the same shit...

Doesn't have to be based off of other teams draft boards. The Giants picked him at 23. So, there is more proof in our argument than yours. The pick was actually made, we aren't basing ours on anything other than real life. It really happened. No mocks needed or conjecture or rumors. The Giants made the pick based on all of the information they had, which is a much better indicator of where his draft value was than your continued efforts to simply say "REACH"!!!
This guy actually uses the theory that Eli will be suspended,  
PatersonPlank : 8/5/2017 12:33 pm : link
because of the memorabilia thing, as justification for a low ranking?
RE: This guy actually uses the theory that Eli will be suspended,  
BillT : 8/5/2017 1:23 pm : link
In comment 13550370 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
because of the memorabilia thing, as justification for a low ranking?

He was really reaching on that. But if you're going to predict an 11-5 team that's clearly made improvements to be the worst team in the NFCE you throw in the kitchen sink.
Whatever  
Bluesbreaker : 8/5/2017 2:51 pm : link
We get to 11 wins I think we win the division .
RE: Googs  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2017 4:25 pm : link
In comment 13550298 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
mine is based off of Sy and Dave Tes rankings and insight, mainly. The fact that the mocks you read outweigh actual work being done by member of this board who know way more than you do.

Based on their findings and TEs being coveted this year by many teams, no, I don't think Engram lasts past the first round and likely not past the browns at 29.

So apply whatever label you want, there's zero evidence to support your opinion.


Don't turn this into it being between mocks and Sy's ratings because its not correct. And nor do I base it on any 1 or 2 mock drafts found on CBSsports.com.

There was plenty of evals, draft rankings, value charts and even mocks available that suggested Engram was more likely an early second round talent. Doesn't mean he isn't a very good player or even a great one if he really suits the NY Giant's plans. But there is nothing wrong with an opinion that concludes he went earlier than expected.

Lord, some of you have got to be able to read opinions and debates and other people's conclusions without jumping off the deep-end into the NY Giant homer-pool...
RE: RE: RE: And IIRC  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2017 4:29 pm : link
In comment 13550318 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13550289 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 13550285 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


your entire argument on this was based off of mocks...



Is yours based off all the GMs that showed you their draft boards? Or the rumors that some teams leaked to their beat-writers about tight ends? its all the same shit...


Doesn't have to be based off of other teams draft boards. The Giants picked him at 23. So, there is more proof in our argument than yours. The pick was actually made, we aren't basing ours on anything other than real life. It really happened. No mocks needed or conjecture or rumors. The Giants made the pick based on all of the information they had, which is a much better indicator of where his draft value was than your continued efforts to simply say "REACH"!!!


Huh? So they picked him at #23 so he is written into the history books as the #23 best player available in the draft. Just like Flowers was the 9th best a few years back too I guess.

Come on...think harder than that.
It isn't being a Giant homer  
UConn4523 : 8/5/2017 4:59 pm : link
you are the one comparing mocks to what actually happened. It's pathetic. A TE went after Engram in the same round. So how does your logic of early 2nd even apply? Not only that, but Cleveland traded away 33 and 108 to move up for Njoku after we took Engram 2 spots before their pick at 25.

Lastly, each team's draft board won't look anything like your coveted mocks, you must know that, or don't you...
RE: RE: RE: RE: And IIRC  
BigBlueShock : 8/5/2017 6:48 pm : link
In comment 13550457 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13550318 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 13550289 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 13550285 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


your entire argument on this was based off of mocks...



Is yours based off all the GMs that showed you their draft boards? Or the rumors that some teams leaked to their beat-writers about tight ends? its all the same shit...


Doesn't have to be based off of other teams draft boards. The Giants picked him at 23. So, there is more proof in our argument than yours. The pick was actually made, we aren't basing ours on anything other than real life. It really happened. No mocks needed or conjecture or rumors. The Giants made the pick based on all of the information they had, which is a much better indicator of where his draft value was than your continued efforts to simply say "REACH"!!!



Huh? So they picked him at #23 so he is written into the history books as the #23 best player available in the draft. Just like Flowers was the 9th best a few years back too I guess.

Come on...think harder than that.

Haha! You're telling me to think harder than that when my point is proven by FACT (ya know, he was actually TAKEN and another TE was taken two picks later) and yours is all based on your favorite web sites mock drafts. Holy fuck, man.

Maybe you should offer to pay for a subscription to one of your sites for Reese to use during the draft. Clearly those guys know more than he does and you obviously agree with that.

And just so ya know, the Giants
RE: It isn't being a Giant homer  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2017 6:56 pm : link
In comment 13550469 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
you are the one comparing mocks to what actually happened. It's pathetic. A TE went after Engram in the same round. So how does your logic of early 2nd even apply? Not only that, but Cleveland traded away 33 and 108 to move up for Njoku after we took Engram 2 spots before their pick at 25.

Lastly, each team's draft board won't look anything like your coveted mocks, you must know that, or don't you...


I Howard and Njoku were labeled as the first round TEs on almost any expert/non-expert's list. Cleveland's move can be looked at in many different ways but usually not the team I refer to when explaining good draft judgment...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And IIRC  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2017 7:08 pm : link
In comment 13550505 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:


Huh? So they picked him at #23 so he is written into the history books as the #23 best player available in the draft. Just like Flowers was the 9th best a few years back too I guess.

Come on...think harder than that.


Haha! You're telling me to think harder than that when my point is proven by FACT (ya know, he was actually TAKEN and another TE was taken two picks later) and yours is all based on your favorite web sites mock drafts. Holy fuck, man.

Maybe you should offer to pay for a subscription to one of your sites for Reese to use during the draft. Clearly those guys know more than he does and you obviously agree with that.

And just so ya know, the Giants


Why is it so impossible to believe that he might have been taken earlier by Giants than his value warrants?

I am all-in on them needing an athletic TE and Engram certainly fits the bill. But by ignoring the position for years in the draft, my view is that reached somewhat in grabbing him because they were so desperate to fix the offense and, as such, pulled the trigger on him early. Clearly drafting strategies take on all forms but I subscribe to a hybrid of the value of the draft slot and the value of the player taken. Not just the value of the player taken...
Uconn and Shock  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2017 7:15 pm : link
it is interesting how often we seem to cross paths. Not sure why, but whatever. And you may not believe me but I actually do agree with your views more than not when I see them. Probably more Uconn versus Shock who just seems to enjoy hating on BBIers.

Nevertheless, I actually really like a guy such as Engram on this team. But am open-minded to at least debate/suggest he went earlier than I would have thought...
It isn't impossible  
UConn4523 : 8/5/2017 7:18 pm : link
nothing is impossible. But you aren't presenting any facts (other than mocks which are wildly inaccurate), which is why it's hard to take your opinion on the matter very seriously.

The guy was graded out very well by 2 guys on this board, one of which does scouting outside of the Giants organization. His grading wasn't based on the Giants needs, rather, rankings in general. Sy also ranks based on position and not specific to Giant needs although he does provide that POV as well.

3 TEs went in the first (fact), the Giants passed on Njoku (fact, who was a 1st in your mocks) to take Engram and then 6 picks later Cleveland traded up for Njoku (fact). And Cleveland has a new GM who's actually someone that's looked highly upon so I really don't care what Brown's history says since it's pretty irrelevant.
Going earlier than expected  
UConn4523 : 8/5/2017 7:22 pm : link
isn't the same as a reach. EJ Manual was a reach, a player who simply didn't have the body of work nor the measurables to be taken where he was.

TEs, specifically those built like Reed continue to prove their importance year after year. Every team wants one. Personally I didn't think we'd go TE round 1 but I understand why we did and I much preferred Engram to Njoku who I wanted no part of.
RE: Uconn and Shock  
BigBlueShock : 8/5/2017 7:28 pm : link
In comment 13550522 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
it is interesting how often we seem to cross paths. Not sure why, but whatever. And you may not believe me but I actually do agree with your views more than not when I see them. Probably more Uconn versus Shock who just seems to enjoy hating on BBIers.

Nevertheless, I actually really like a guy such as Engram on this team. But am open-minded to at least debate/suggest he went earlier than I would have thought...

I don't hate on BBIers. I just hate on the ones that are constantly negative. It drives me crazy. Certain posters ALWAYS find a reason to whine, bitch, moan and complain about anything and everything. It's like clockwork with some guys. You can count on it in every thread. I have no problem calling these guys out because they deserve it. You're not one of the worst offenders but you are absolutely much more negative in your posts than positive. This thread is a perfect example. Of all the things to comment on, of course you chose the "He was right on one thing, Engram was a reach" portion. Because you enjoy negativity. Nobody is asking you to wave Pom pims all the time but some balance would be nice.
RE: It isn't impossible  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2017 7:34 pm : link
In comment 13550523 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
nothing is impossible. But you aren't presenting any facts (other than mocks which are wildly inaccurate), which is why it's hard to take your opinion on the matter very seriously.

The guy was graded out very well by 2 guys on this board, one of which does scouting outside of the Giants organization. His grading wasn't based on the Giants needs, rather, rankings in general. Sy also ranks based on position and not specific to Giant needs although he does provide that POV as well.

3 TEs went in the first (fact), the Giants passed on Njoku (fact, who was a 1st in your mocks) to take Engram and then 6 picks later Cleveland traded up for Njoku (fact). And Cleveland has a new GM who's actually someone that's looked highly upon so I really don't care what Brown's history says since it's pretty irrelevant.


Fair post other than you keep going back the mock-well which is not the case. Sy is a nice resource but there are others outside of the BBI world too. I am glad we have him to share his views but they are not the only ones in the football world...
RE: Going earlier than expected  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2017 7:37 pm : link
In comment 13550524 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
isn't the same as a reach. EJ Manual was a reach, a player who simply didn't have the body of work nor the measurables to be taken where he was.

TEs, specifically those built like Reed continue to prove their importance year after year. Every team wants one. Personally I didn't think we'd go TE round 1 but I understand why we did and I much preferred Engram to Njoku who I wanted no part of.


Agree that going earlier doesn't have to definitely mean a reach as that is a subjective view. However, I used it because at the top of draft the picks are so much more valuable...meaning a diff between 23 and 33 is extremely meaningful.
RE: RE: Uconn and Shock  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2017 7:46 pm : link
In comment 13550529 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13550522 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


it is interesting how often we seem to cross paths. Not sure why, but whatever. And you may not believe me but I actually do agree with your views more than not when I see them. Probably more Uconn versus Shock who just seems to enjoy hating on BBIers.

Nevertheless, I actually really like a guy such as Engram on this team. But am open-minded to at least debate/suggest he went earlier than I would have thought...


I don't hate on BBIers. I just hate on the ones that are constantly negative. It drives me crazy. Certain posters ALWAYS find a reason to whine, bitch, moan and complain about anything and everything. It's like clockwork with some guys. You can count on it in every thread. I have no problem calling these guys out because they deserve it. You're not one of the worst offenders but you are absolutely much more negative in your posts than positive. This thread is a perfect example. Of all the things to comment on, of course you chose the "He was right on one thing, Engram was a reach" portion. Because you enjoy negativity. Nobody is asking you to wave Pom pims all the time but some balance would be nice.


Don't agree. Calling out posters, other than for some harmless humor, is just flat out wrong. I throw out (or try) some sarcasm to make it softer but you simply don't. You berate them.

Do you call out the endless optimists, Giant-homers who believe everything the Giants do is gold they can do no wrong? They bring nothing to table other than the same pom-poms you refer to, so why not hit them for being silly worthless minds looking for the winning lottery ticket?

I make critical comments for sure, but stand by the opinions to the end (such as my comments for Herzlich, A. Adams, Eli's play versus the Eagles to name a few).

just sayin'...
Guys, the Falcons wanted Engram BAD. If he was there for them at 26,  
Optimus-NY : 8/6/2017 12:55 pm : link
then he would have been their pick.
Absolutely not. Falcons were all-in for the best  
Jimmy Googs : 8/6/2017 1:07 pm : link
pass rusher available. And they were not shy about letting it show before and on draft day.

I live in ATL and heard it all.
RE: Absolutely not. Falcons were all-in for the best  
Optimus-NY : 8/6/2017 8:00 pm : link
In comment 13550807 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
pass rusher available. And they were not shy about letting it show before and on draft day.

I live in ATL and heard it all.


That's not what Engram himself said. I've heard others say the Falcons wanted Engram too.


Falcons & 49ers “Trying Like Crazy” To Trade Up In Round 1 - Nate Bouda - April 27, 2017 - ( New Window )
RE: Absolutely not. Falcons were all-in for the best  
UConn4523 : 8/6/2017 8:52 pm : link
In comment 13550807 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
pass rusher available. And they were not shy about letting it show before and on draft day.

I live in ATL and heard it all.


Doesn't this stance refute your critique of everyone else "listening to beat writers"? If you are going to take what's said publicly with a grain of salt (which I usually always do) then you can pick and choose when to apply that logic.

Falcons, Steelers, Browns, even the Packers were all linked to Engram in some way shape or form. No different than a pass rusher linked to the Falcons.
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