NYP: Don’t be afraid to get excited about this Giants team

I can't remember a single training camp where the training camp reports were so positive on a daily basis as they have been this year.

Take arguably the league's best defense and add in a potential 2nd year game-changing MLB. The return of its starting FS and adequate depth for pretty much every unit.

As for an offense that was pretty much terrible, injured or young at all skill positions last season (other than Odell), look at the available talent this year. Marshall, Vereen, Ellison, Engram plus Shep and Perkins in year two.

Minimum 12 wins.

Admittedly not that long a time, I've never been more excited and optimistic about an upcoming season.

Usually it's Serby. For something like this to be written by him is significant. Maybe this team is indeed better than we all suspected. The talent is certainly there.

could be the wild card in all of this. If he excels to a level of a Jay Ajayi or a Jordan Howard that could really put the team over the top.

If he does not though it will be Gallman and Darkwa to steady things in a committee.

if they can be productive, not great, but productive, this team could put up sick numbers. The D is starting to get scary good. So the arrow is pointing up.

to temper my excitement.

until we get through training camp and the preseason injury free.

Only then, will I get excited.

I'm excited but I'm going to hold off on 13-14 win proclamations.

The 2008 team was flat dominant and wound up 12-4. It's a long season, shit happens, and there are always obstacles to overcome.

I'm optimistic, I'm really happy we have a roster worth dreaming big about - but at the end of the day, it means nothing until we do it.

Eagles fans were feeling the same way this time 6 years ago...

In comment 13551442 arcarsenal said:

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I'm excited but I'm going to hold off on 13-14 win proclamations. The 2008 team was flat dominant and wound up 12-4. It's a long season, shit happens, and there are always obstacles to overcome. I'm optimistic, I'm really happy we have a roster worth dreaming big about - but at the end of the day, it means nothing until we do it. Eagles fans were feeling the same way this time 6 years ago...

I get what you are saying and I don't really disagree, but I hate the comparison to the Eagles. Theres a big difference. First off, they Eagles signed a bunch of high priced FA's so they were incorporating a bunch of new guys into the team. THe Giants are binging back almost the same team that had success last year, but we are patching a few holes with great players. The defense is almost identical to last year when we dominated. Offensively, we added some major skill players, but we didn't lose anything.

ON PAPER. With reasonable health, we can compete with anyone. I truly believe that

and the reality of this situation. This is an 11 win roster that completely upgraded its offensive personnel around a veteran, franchise QB and further enhanced a dominant defense.

The 08 team taught us that yes, anything can happen, but odds are the 2017 Giants win alot of games.

That's based on evaluation of talent, not some blind homerism.

I don't think I was in '07 or '11. I was optimistic, but not quite like this. It's almost scary.

In comment 13551442 arcarsenal said:

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I'm excited but I'm going to hold off on 13-14 win proclamations. The 2008 team was flat dominant and wound up 12-4. It's a long season, shit happens, and there are always obstacles to overcome. I'm optimistic, I'm really happy we have a roster worth dreaming big about - but at the end of the day, it means nothing until we do it. Eagles fans were feeling the same way this time 6 years ago...

Not really a fair comparison. The 08 team is a 1-2 loss team who most likely repeats if Plax doesn't shoot himself. Wasn't like the team got hit w a bunch of football injuries -- the situation was entirely avoidable.

All I'm saying is...

Don't be surprised if we don't surpass our win total from last year.

There's a good chance this winds up being a 10-11 win team.

This isn't like the NBA where you just say "well, they have LeBron so they're going to the Finals"

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, but there are a lot of moving parts in football and sometimes all it takes is one mistake at an inopportune time to lose a game. Divisional games are always close and there's not going to be a single team in this division that is easy to beat the way the Cardinals used to be or the way WSH has been a lot of times.

I don't put much weight on our schedule because you never really know who is going to be as tough or as bad as they were the year prior - but we certainly won't have an easy one.

I'm cautiously optimistic - I just think posters who think this team is winning 13-14 games might want to lower the bar just a tad before they wind up disappointed.

The OL could still cause a lot of problems for this team. If they can't prevent DE's from racing around the edge and getting to Eli before he hits his last dropback step, a lot of drives could go down the tubes. We can't keep Ellison attached to Flowers' hip on every pass play.

In comment 13551474 WillVAB said:

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In comment 13551442 arcarsenal said: Quote: I'm excited but I'm going to hold off on 13-14 win proclamations. The 2008 team was flat dominant and wound up 12-4. It's a long season, shit happens, and there are always obstacles to overcome. I'm optimistic, I'm really happy we have a roster worth dreaming big about - but at the end of the day, it means nothing until we do it. Eagles fans were feeling the same way this time 6 years ago... Not really a fair comparison. The 08 team is a 1-2 loss team who most likely repeats if Plax doesn't shoot himself. Wasn't like the team got hit w a bunch of football injuries -- the situation was entirely avoidable.

That's kind of the point.

I don't anticipate anyone shooting themselves but even the most dominant Giants team we've seen since probably '86 didn't even win a playoff game.

Whether it be injuries or whatever - things can happen that de-rail a team.

I think some fans are way too confident right now. But that's their right.

In comment 13551486 arcarsenal said:

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All I'm saying is... Don't be surprised if we don't surpass our win total from last year. There's a good chance this winds up being a 10-11 win team. This isn't like the NBA where you just say "well, they have LeBron so they're going to the Finals" I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, but there are a lot of moving parts in football and sometimes all it takes is one mistake at an inopportune time to lose a game. Divisional games are always close and there's not going to be a single team in this division that is easy to beat the way the Cardinals used to be or the way WSH has been a lot of times. I don't put much weight on our schedule because you never really know who is going to be as tough or as bad as they were the year prior - but we certainly won't have an easy one. I'm cautiously optimistic - I just think posters who think this team is winning 13-14 games might want to lower the bar just a tad before they wind up disappointed. The OL could still cause a lot of problems for this team. If they can't prevent DE's from racing around the edge and getting to Eli before he hits his last dropback step, a lot of drives could go down the tubes. We can't keep Ellison attached to Flowers' hip on every pass play.

Now this I agree with. I don't like the Philly comparison, but this is spot on. The NFL changes week to week. Things can change in a split second. I think this team is loaded with talent, but the most talented teams don't always win in the NFL.

and it's been a while since I've gone into preseason with such high expectations. This team has a chance to be REALLY good, but they need to get some breaks. Better OL play, obviously, but I am cautiously optimistic that the line will not only be passable, but pretty good.

That and injuries. If we can stay reasonably healthy, the sky is the limit.

The 2011 Eagles were probably a shitty comparison, it was just the first thing that came to mind when I was thinking back to a fan base that was as confident as this one seems to be.

We probably have better reasons to be than they did - but my overall point remains.

The Giants haven't had a 13-win season in nearly 30 years. It's not easy to do and some fans seem to be assuming it'll be a cinch.

Collins/Tiki/Toomer and Shockey finished strong ( regardless of SF meltdown) and never would have predicted the shit-show that was 2003.

So, pretty much like every year, one game at a time. We could sweep Dallas and still finish 7-9.

Their schedule is brutal and we better hope that those divisional games at home late year are to win the division and a nice seed.

that's what I have my eye on.

If they take care of business - which they should because on paper they outclass Philly which has a young QB - then I start to get excited.

The Giants half got that monkey off their back last season but then shit the bed vs a 5-9 team in Philly.

Dominate them, then 2 weeks vs mediocre teams (Bucs, LAC) then into a gauntlet vs Denver & Seattle.

there's too much you don't know until the bullets start flying. Not to mention, every coah in the league would prefer their team to be considered underdogs on a given day. It has been recent history that the Giants will play down to their competition when favored, and so I'm not buying in at all until it's proved. Not even a few early wins will shake me. For a short season, it's pretty long.

Seahawks is a home game (away you could probably pencil in an L).

@ Raiders and @ Broncos are the only really shitty draws.

Every other n/d game favors NYG.

at this time just 2 years ago and compare it to now- Reese catches a lot of crap but he has done one heck of a job the last 24 months. No way to know what will happen but they have to be right at the top of the heap for SB hopefuls. As a fan I can't expect more than that. This season will be fun no matter how it turns out. I lived through the late 60s and 70s those seasons were NOT fun believe me.

There are only two teams for whom it makes sense to predict anything outside of 6-10 to 10-6: New England and Cleveland.

.

that with all this talent in place and at this point in eli's career they didn't address the offensive line.

arc said, on paper, the NFC East teams have the hardest schedules in the league, having to play the AFC and NFC West divisions - lots of travel and teams that have good records last year.

I think 10 wins can win the division and any teams that don't win the division will be drawing the short stick at one of the two WC spots.

But I think we will win the division. Taking division games will be more important than ever this year.

In comment 13551539 Go Terps said:

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There are only two teams for whom it makes sense to predict anything outside of 6-10 to 10-6: New England and Cleveland.

I pretty much agree - though I think the Jets are a very safe bet to finish worse than 6-10 this year. Their offense is going to be very, very bad.

I'll ever be able to count.

Having said that, this is a great team on paper. Oddly enough, my biggest concern is Eli showing his age. I'm not predicting it will happen, but it's plausible.

Yeah, I get what he (arc) means with that Philly comparison. He does have a point too because everyone was slurping up the Eagles going into 2011, with all the guys they signed and the hype behind the 2010 Giants comeback.

I’ve been kind of excited for this season but have been holding back on it. I am seeing more “Giants positivity” comments in the media and everyone seems excited when the Giants get brought up, I said “Shhhhhh! when everyone says the Giants are going to suck, thats when they have no shot. Duh.”

Seriously though, I think last year the team was good enough to go to the Super Bowl and face New England again. I think they just got unlucky playing Green Bay and Rodgers on the road in the first round. I certainly thought they were DEFINITELY good enough to beat Dallas in the second round. I had no fear about playing those clowns and the Giants beating them again.

Last year is over though, this is a completely new year. If this is the year to win the whole thing, this team is it. Only thing AGAIN, I’m still troubled about is that stupid offensive line with the same fucking names starring back at me, with nothing changed. Really? John Jerry for the past 4 years as a starter? Either way, if Ben and the play calling is consistent and isn’t God awful like it was last year on offense, at times, then I’m fine. Let this defense be punishing and give the fans at MetLife something to get LOUD about just like last year. By December that place was insanely loud.

Hopefully Odell puts on his big boy pants if the playoffs do come up again, unlike last season. That was a disappointment. That game should’ve been closer and a dog fight until the end but I really don’t have any issues with losing to the greatest (or one of) QB in the league in January. Nothing wrong with that. The score doesn’t bother me.

I just wanna get summer the fuck over with so we can get to football already.

Is what I meant

I am always optimistic, but never get carried away because experience has taught me how many things can derail a very good football team.

With that said there were two seasons when I had my hopes the highest, the first was prior to the 1986 season, the only thing that kept me in check was that we had not won a Super Bowl yet.

The second season was the 2008 season, nothing could quell my optimism on that season, I was convinced we were the best team by far.

needless to say I was 1 out of two. I will admit this is the third time I have got that kind of good feeling about our team. I do not see a team out there that I look at and say we can't beat that team. The only two things that keep me a little cautious is the offensive line of coarse, and Eli, he has had a very good run that we need to continue, and he needs to raise his level of play this season, I think that is something he can and will do.

Fuck you Flipper Anderson.

In comment 13551496 Keith said:

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In comment 13551486 arcarsenal said: Quote: All I'm saying is... Don't be surprised if we don't surpass our win total from last year. There's a good chance this winds up being a 10-11 win team. This isn't like the NBA where you just say "well, they have LeBron so they're going to the Finals" I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, but there are a lot of moving parts in football and sometimes all it takes is one mistake at an inopportune time to lose a game. Divisional games are always close and there's not going to be a single team in this division that is easy to beat the way the Cardinals used to be or the way WSH has been a lot of times. I don't put much weight on our schedule because you never really know who is going to be as tough or as bad as they were the year prior - but we certainly won't have an easy one. I'm cautiously optimistic - I just think posters who think this team is winning 13-14 games might want to lower the bar just a tad before they wind up disappointed. The OL could still cause a lot of problems for this team. If they can't prevent DE's from racing around the edge and getting to Eli before he hits his last dropback step, a lot of drives could go down the tubes. We can't keep Ellison attached to Flowers' hip on every pass play. Now this I agree with. I don't like the Philly comparison, but this is spot on. The NFL changes week to week. Things can change in a split second. I think this team is loaded with talent, but the most talented teams don't always win in the NFL.

True, but if in tact, teams with an Eli can and should go deep, imo..Of course and unlike 2008, we don't lose an OBJ and/or field a weakened/fatigued D

Engram's explosive play will have a big impact. Very deep at the key positions except at OL.

A lot of very talented teams in NFC. TB and Arz will have excellent defenses and could be playoff teams. Plus Sea, GB, Atl, DAL DET and NO.
All with excellent QBs.

DET had a pretty good defense last year and drafted all defense. They've Good and fast in the back end on D. Slay is awesome. Stafford gives them a shot to make a run. He needed a big play guy. I don't think it's Jones who disappears too much. They guy to watch is the rookie Kenny Golladay. Huge and fast and impressing everybody. If you're drafting FF early, draft this guy and thank me later.

NFC is much deeper than AFC.. Giants are talented for sure but they could play well and still not make the playoffs.

That does not mean that one should curtail ones expectations according to others skepticism or pessimism. I have been stating continuously that the 2017 New York Football Giants are going to become a juggernaut. That if the OL can improve becoming consistent there is no team on their schedule who can be considered favored over them.

None of the 2017 opponents have a match up advantage on the Giants. While there is none the 2017 Giants can't match up with. Last years D was a fledgling compared to the 2017 version. DC Spagnoulo is again trotting out many of his pressure packages from a 3 safety look. The D is developing a distinct aggressive persona which is evolving continuously with each practice in training camp.

The O is revealing a plethora of weapons that will prove a nightmare for opposing DC's to contain. The OL is deep with young talent that have shown a nasty disposition, which will manifest cohesion from there continuous battles with this D. Such attitude is always present for a good rushing attack. Give our franchise QB trust in his blockers and he will revert back to 2011, when Eli carried the team till they awoke to complement for the championship run.

In GB, Eli showed that he has not lost his playoff alter ego. Therefore given the continuous evidence of what is developing in East Rutherford we should be encouraged. I believe without reserve that the 2017 Giants have a champion roster. Not only for this season but dynasty level. The Giants are very young, 95% of the roster is either in their prime or on their rookie contract. Excluding Eli Manning, DeOssie, Marshall, DRC, Herzlich and Casillas every other member on the final roster will be under 30.

We are entering a new era in the Giants legacy, therefore embrace it, proclaim it and be blessed by it! I have been a fan and Giants supporter since 1964, my old handle was Makogman and I see a comparison with the 49er dynasty in talent. The skill positions are loaded with talented playmakers, the fronts talented with nasty depositions and a franchise QB as a field general.

12-4, 13-3, 14-2, better is all within the ability of the 2017 Giants. Just a caveat, imagine 2007 only the roles reversed and we go the distance. That is not out of the realm of possibility. Therefore believe in what you see, trust in your instincts, for there is a great possibility that they will be proven correct.

they will be capable of sticking with the top teams in the league this year, which gives them a chance in any given game. The schedule is difficult, but they have the horses this year to manage it. Can't make predictions and usually when there's this much buzz around a team, they fail to cash in. I just hope the Giants stay hungry and get back into the playoffs. Anything can happen after that.

In comment 13551409 Jay on the Island said:

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I can't remember a single training camp where the training camp reports were so positive on a daily basis as they have been this year.

I can't remember a better Giants team on Paper in the 'Eli Manning era' maybe even beyond this era. Today's team is really good. Coaching and health will be a big factor if they reach the top.

And take care of business within the division they should make the playoffs. Ultimately, health will play the biggest part in what happens to this team. No team is good enough to overcome a excessive number of injuries.

They might be a markedly improved team and finish with the same record as last season, or even 10-6. I'm not gonna get hung up on w/l records. I'm more interested on how likely they are to make a playoff run.

In comment 13551721 Greg from LI said:

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They might be a markedly improved team and finish with the same record as last season, or even 10-6. I'm not gonna get hung up on w/l records. I'm more interested on how likely they are to make a playoff run.

Not for nuttin', but each year my predictions for this team is PLAYOFFS..I don't bother with W-L record projections..Just get in and I'll take my chances with Eli, assuming we're not missing key parts at that time

...as soon as people start writing articles like this.

friend, a SF fan, who said, "Too bad about the Giants this year,just no Karma". What?? I challenged. "Yeah, they just look way too good this year, but when they win they come out of nowhere".

In comment 13551712 est1986 said:

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I can't remember a better Giants team on Paper in the 'Eli Manning era' maybe even beyond this era. Today's team is really good. Coaching and health will be a big factor if they reach the top.

Nope, still take 2008 pre-moron.

Clearly 2017 has more elite talent with Beckham, Harrison, Collins, and DRC/Jenkins. Tuck is a wash and although obviously inferior to OV, Kiwi was no slouch with his hand in the dirt (v Pittsburgh stands out especially).

And were the 2017 Oline even at average level, I'd favor the 2017 team decidedly, but there is simply no comparison between:

Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, prime Snee, and Kareem (who all started 16 games IIRC.)

and 2017 which has 1 single proven & consistent Olineman.

Brandon Jacobs and especially Derrick Ward were not some world beater RBs. But duel 1k rushers is rare.

Then there's Eli Manning himself.

Not to diminish the current talent which I'm excited about, but 2008 was the definition of just a SOLID team.

(Fuck you Plax).

wow, over a million views now - ( New Window )

This team has dominant defensive talent. That's just a fact. They patched up an offense with thin skill position talent and they now have, at the very least, very good skill position talent. And many the guys we we're hoping to step up, Apple, Goodson, Thompson, Bromley, Thomas, Hart, Pugh, Ellison, Marshall and more are doing just that. Looking good.

Where is the 2008 roster better than 2017? Again if you're looking at talent on paper and not counting 2008 performance at all.

2008 OL was elite.
2008 RBs were elite.
2017 WRs are better.
2017 TEs are better.
2017 DL is better (remember no Osi).
2017 LBs are better.
2017 Secondary is elite.

Eli was nearly 10 years younger in 2008 and we had an elite ground game to go with a legit WR1 in Burress, Toomer, and an emerging Steve Smith.

Not sure what the basis for saying the 2017 TE group is better is based on... Evan Engram hasn't played an NFL game yet. No one in this group has proven anything. Boss was never anything spectacular but he was good for 6 TD's in 2008.

The 2008 defense was a top 5 unit.

Dallas showed last year that when you have a dominant OL and a dominant ground game it has a trickle-down effect in many different ways.

First, it takes a LOT of heat off the QB. Teams can't play coverage or take men out of the box when you keep steamrolling them up front, so the QB is looking at single coverage often, can use play-action effectively, and you can also play a possession game that keeps the other team's offense off the field and wears down the opposing defense.

The biggest weakness the Giants have right now is... the OL.

and when you have a 36 y/o immobile QB, its capability is extremely important to your team's success.

2008 was 4.5/5 for capability (Diehl being the .5).

2017 is 1.5/5 (although, to be fair, indications are Richburg was playing hurt in 2016).

Without that discrepancy, ofc 2017 reigns supreme by a wide margin.

But it's too large a discrepancy to overlook when comparing the respective rosters.

minimize* the better word.