Lots of talk about how this is a ruined season by injuries - and it gets under my skin hearing that over and over again, with the assumption that if we stay the course next year they will win a World Series.
1) How many years have we said/heard "oh, if it weren't for the injuries ____" followed by "next year, IF we are healthy..."
2) When you rely on players who haven't proven to be durable, guess what you have to deal with? Injuries. So as long as things remain the same - why would you expect a different outcome?
The prior issue fans had with the Mets Front Office and ownership was that they were "too cheap"
1) Payroll isn't top in baseball nor close - but ownership has clearly spent a ton of money. Enough to win it all? No
2) Enough to contend with the Dodgers? No - but the Dodgers aren't dominating with their money. They are winning with Seager, Turner, Taylor and Bellinger (total cost about $15mm)and despite A Gon ($21mm)
The problem with the current construction of the team is relying on unreliable players. The result? Way more players are producing below their pay grade than above.
Who on the team is outperforming? DeGrom and Conforto, maybe Bruce.
Who is under performing? Walker, Cabrera, Cespedes, Wright, Matz, Harvey, Gselllman, Salas, etc.
Of those underperforming - who can you say with certainty will outperform their salary next year? There folks, is th eproblem with the 2017 Mets. It's not injury.
KC went to the WS and lost in 2014 only to return and win in 2015. So, if you're the Mets, you say "well.. why can't we do the same thing?"
From that vantage point, I understood the logic of going into 2016 and saying "alright, Syndergaard has arrived - Harvey is back, we've got Matz in the fold now, deGrom has been great, our closer is in place. Let's get Cespedes back here and do it again"
But then 2016 happened, and I think the FO said - well, we had a lot of injuries - if not for that, we may not have needed to play in that play-in game to begin with. So, let's get these guys healthy for 2017 and show the Nationals who the best team in this division really is.
Faulty approach, probably.
Now - the whole definition of insanity thing starts to apply if we retain this same approach for 2018. I think the philosophy has to change. However, we also have to take into account what is or isn't within the realm of possibilities. Some of the injury-prone guys (i.e. Harvey) make little sense to deal because they basically have no trade value.
So, the goal should be to get a little more athletic, add guys with stronger track records of being on the field 150+ games per year, strengthen the pen, try to find a starter who can give us what Colon had been providing. Infuse the youth and have Conforto, Rosario, and (hopefully) Smith start to form the new core of the team. We have flexibility - I think a good deal of roster turnover is possible. How much? I don't know.
But I think the same old, same old probably isn't going to work at this point.
They almost have to go into 2018 with:
Thor
degrom
Matz
Harvey
Wheeler/Gsellman/Lugo
as the rotation.
none of the ones you'd want to trade (Harvey or Wheeler) have value and Gsellman/Lugo are pitching themselves into less value than Harvey or Wheeler.
Best you can hope for is a fa starting pitcher, but who?
Darvish?
Arieta?
You're likely looking at the same rotation,
But where the Mets can redo 2017 the right way is by adding bullpen arms, getting a CF and a 3B.
Rosario and Smith add youth, maybe Cecchini breaks out the final couple months and gets a shot at 3B or 2B, but either way, the only changes I'd make to the 2018 Mets are minor additions.
Then after 2018 if things go sideways again I blow it out, try and lure Machado to NYM and rebuild.
KC went to the WS and lost in 2014 only to return and win in 2015. So, if you're the Mets, you say "well.. why can't we do the same thing?"
From that vantage point, I understood the logic of going into 2016 and saying "alright, Syndergaard has arrived - Harvey is back, we've got Matz in the fold now, deGrom has been great, our closer is in place. Let's get Cespedes back here and do it again"
But then 2016 happened, and I think the FO said - well, we had a lot of injuries - if not for that, we may not have needed to play in that play-in game to begin with. So, let's get these guys healthy for 2017 and show the Nationals who the best team in this division really is.
Faulty approach, probably.
Now - the whole definition of insanity thing starts to apply if we retain this same approach for 2018. I think the philosophy has to change. However, we also have to take into account what is or isn't within the realm of possibilities. Some of the injury-prone guys (i.e. Harvey) make little sense to deal because they basically have no trade value.
So, the goal should be to get a little more athletic, add guys with stronger track records of being on the field 150+ games per year, strengthen the pen, try to find a starter who can give us what Colon had been providing. Infuse the youth and have Conforto, Rosario, and (hopefully) Smith start to form the new core of the team. We have flexibility - I think a good deal of roster turnover is possible. How much? I don't know.
But I think the same old, same old probably isn't going to work at this point.
But the lineup will have spots where we can upgrade/turn things over and we have money coming off the books.
The bullpen is a big deal. We can't keep sending turds like Edgin, Salas, Robles, Ramirez, etc. out there. Beefing up the pen should be a major priority. You can call them a crapshoot until the cows come home - but I think the Mets need to be more aggressive in finding quality MRP's.
They almost have to go into 2018 with:
Thor
degrom
Matz
Harvey
Wheeler/Gsellman/Lugo
as the rotation.
none of the ones you'd want to trade (Harvey or Wheeler) have value and Gsellman/Lugo are pitching themselves into less value than Harvey or Wheeler.
Best you can hope for is a fa starting pitcher, but who?
Darvish?
Arieta?
You're likely looking at the same rotation,
But where the Mets can redo 2017 the right way is by adding bullpen arms, getting a CF and a 3B.
Rosario and Smith add youth, maybe Cecchini breaks out the final couple months and gets a shot at 3B or 2B, but either way, the only changes I'd make to the 2018 Mets are minor additions.
Then after 2018 if things go sideways again I blow it out, try and lure Machado to NYM and rebuild.
I was thinking Flores at 2B. And I'd leave Flo in there for 150+ games. lefties, righties, don't care. His splits vs righties this year show the Mets FO/MGR are clueless about Flores and wasted years of his career yanking him around the diamond and platooning him.
Flores and Mejia (different regimes?) were two of the most misused Mets in my lifetime.
Less than zero chance he is even in the conversation.
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surprised how bad Cecchini has been. I don't see a starting 3b in the system unless you are a believer in Wilmer. Cecchini isn't one and nor is TJ Rivera.
I was thinking Flores at 2B. And I'd leave Flo in there for 150+ games. lefties, righties, don't care. His splits vs righties this year show the Mets FO/MGR are clueless about Flores and wasted years of his career yanking him around the diamond and platooning him.
Flores and Mejia (different regimes?) were two of the most misused Mets in my lifetime.
No inside information but I get the feeling they view Wilmer as a super sub vs. a regular. Not saying I agree or disagree.
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In comment 13552740 DanMetroMan said:
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surprised how bad Cecchini has been. I don't see a starting 3b in the system unless you are a believer in Wilmer. Cecchini isn't one and nor is TJ Rivera.
I was thinking Flores at 2B. And I'd leave Flo in there for 150+ games. lefties, righties, don't care. His splits vs righties this year show the Mets FO/MGR are clueless about Flores and wasted years of his career yanking him around the diamond and platooning him.
Flores and Mejia (different regimes?) were two of the most misused Mets in my lifetime.
No inside information but I get the feeling they view Wilmer as a super sub vs. a regular. Not saying I agree or disagree.
I'd be fine with Wilmer in that role if the guy starting at all 4 infield positions was better than Wilmer.
eventually that's best case, Wilmer backing up all 4 IF spots and PH, that means the infield is solid IMO.
But with Collins at the helm, they will never play enough over the vets.
Or Cabrera will be our starting 3b in April 2018
Zimmerman will fall back to Earth from Mvp candidate. Gio gonzalez and Strasburgs arms will fall off. Maybe Scherzer too
So their window will be closing fast.
Then we will have to contend with the Braves for many years
Just like TJ, we never knew what he had until injuries forced the issue
But I think a more realistic solution for next year would be Lance Lynn. Will he leave the Cardinals, though? I think he's the kind of reliable, 200 innings of quality pitching the Mets need in their rotation. Is it going to push someone out of the rotation like Wheeler, Matz, Gsellman, or Lugo? Yes. But they need that kind of guy, badly.
You go: Noah, deGrom, Lynn, Harvey, Wheeler, and if you want, open the season with a 6-man rotation, that will hopefully keep some innings down and keep these guys fresh.
I think AsCab is the 3B next year, because he'll be cheaper than Walker. You can let AsCab walk for $2 million, or keep him to play third for an additional $6.5 million. I don't think that's a difficult decision, and I think he has the best glove for third base. I think Neil Walker is gone.
Lugo goes to the pen as the superstar reliever
Wheeler and Matz duke it out for the fifth starter spot.
He's 38 years old..
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But Beltre would fit in real well
He's 38 years old..
Too young, good point ;)
I'll settle for MOustakas
Scratched due to elbow tightness
Tried that approach with last years first rounder...
Is Sandy under the delusion that he is going to swing some kind of significant deal for these two broken-down players?
Let's find out what we have with Flores so it doesn't turn into another Justin Turner.
Flores has the stroke to hit .300 and 25+ HR if he can if he can can become more selective. And, yeah, baseball history is filled with guys who never did become more selective. But there are also Turners and Murphys. So let's not make that mistake again. Especially to give ABs to guys like Walker and Cabrera who are both on the slippery slope.
but to me, this really seems to be about saving money by getting some team to take on their salaries. Mets are not getting anything significant back .
There's plenty of time for the kids to play, there's still over a quarter of a season to play. Another 7-10 days won't stunt anyone's future...
There's plenty of time for the kids to play, there's still over a quarter of a season to play. Another 7-10 days won't stunt anyone's future...
Fans overlook this fact. Good luck signing future vets if you shit on them on the way out the door.
I avoid speculating on health. Assumption is precautionary - but it's the Mets...
Speaking of Dunn, something very near and dear to my heart.
A great cause he is heavily involved in - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
You throw strikes in the GCL, it stands out
Link - ( New Window )
Cue phantom back injury in
3... 2... 1...
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called up by the Angels (in former Mets news)
Cue phantom back injury in
3... 2... 1...
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called up by the Angels (in former Mets news)
Cue phantom back injury in
3... 2... 1...
He's played 1 game. He'd be tied for 4th on the Mets in stolen bases.
He was on fire in the PCL before being called up.
He'd be perfect on the Mets even short-term.
@jcrasnick
Jay Bruce is heading to #Indians in a trade. The #Yankees were also involved in Bruce trade talks before #Mets dealt him to Cleveland.
More
Bruce had roughly $5M owed still this season and #Indians are taking on all of it. #mets
I assume there's a Drew Smith-esque prospect packing his bag right now.
A Shout-Out to the 7 Line Army - Lucas Duda - ( New Window )
I read a couple years ago when selling the Mets was a hot topic that Mark Cuban was interested, but from what I recall it's tough to break into ownership and it was unlikely Cuban would have been approved.
I don't care if the Wilpons sell or not, I just hope they do a few things like get a local AAA team, stop spitefully refusing to trade with the Yankees, and if they have any influence over Sandy in any area beyond LT contracts then remove that influence (or replace Sandy and ideally with someone who won't be influenced beyond normal ownership influence).