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August 8 Training Camp Observations

Sy'56 : 8/8/2017 4:29 pm
Overcast with some sun shining through late, pleasant temperature. There really has been a variety of temperature throughout training camp. The team was in full pads today and there was some more pads popping. This team is ready to play Pittsburgh.

No video today.

OFFENSE NOTES

-I tried to put as much attention on the fullback Huessman vs. Smith battle as I could. They donít get a ton of snaps and there are still plenty of plays where a TE is lined up back there. TE Tye probably had the most snaps of all the TEs in the backfield. As for the two FBs, Huessman made a few nice catches on the move. He is a much more twitchy, athletic guy and if thatís what the primary focus is for the position, he is the clear winner Smith is the mauler, as we have discussed. He caught a TD pass in the flat from Eli. He still looks like the less-natural guy with the ball in his hands but if NYG wants the bruiser and extra run support, he is their guy. If special teams comes in to play with the decision, Huessman may get the nod.

-OG DJ Fluker looked a little off today. The questions with him revolve around conditioning and trusting technique. He is such a mammoth of a man but at this level, without the consistent techniques when it comes to pad level, active feet, accurate arm/hand workÖhe needs to make sure itís there when he gets tired, late in games.

-OC Brett Jones plays an admirable style, but his upside is limited. Perhaps limited enough for this team to go in a different direction in favor of OL Adam Gettis. Jones is a guy that wonít get pushed back. He is so strong and always wins the leverage battle but he isnít really a go-getter, especially in space. Can he reach athletic linebackers. Can he make up for initial positional disadvantages? Can he lock on to pass rushers? Those are my questions with him. Where as Gettis appears to have what Jones has strength and leverage wise, but grades out slightly higher athletically.

-OT Adam Bisnowaty vs OT Chad Wheeler. If I had to pick one right now to move forward with, I am going with Wheeler. NYG will likely hold on to both and Iím not saying you need to pick one right now. I donít think either will see the field in 2017. But Bisnowaty has long ways to go when it comes to footwork and upper body technique. He was beat badly a few times in pass protection, once at the ends of DE Devin Taylor. Wheeler has been impressive. Strong lower body, quality positioning, accurate hands, and he fights. Also gives a solid pop off the ball.

-RB Khalid Abdullah was one of a few roster hopefuls returning kicks today. He still looks a little unnatural when it comes to catching the ball, a lot of body catching. He also was late to pick up a blitz up the middle at the end of practice, and ended up allowing a sack to Calvin Munsion. Big collision and Abdullah got the worst of it.

-OG John Jerry was very active today, first time I really put the eyeball on him several times. He has the potential to be an elite pass blocking guard. Light feet, long arms, accurate on the move, good blend of patience and aggression. He won every 1 on 1 battle I saw today against the likes of DE Romeo Okwara, DT Jay Bromley and DT Dalvin Tomlinson.

-Another day, another impressive (arguably the best catch of the day) by TE Matt LaCosse. How many plays does this kid make until you say, alright we need to give him a shot during the regular season. His eye-hand coordination and ball skills are top notch.

-Got to see some 1st strong O vs. 2nd/3rd string defense today. WR Beckham easily beat CB Blake on a quick out route for a TD. Blake bounced back with a PD against TE Engram on a jump ball. He is a fiery guy.

-TE Colin Thompson has been getting + marks next to his name on my sheet for 5 straight days now. For a ďblocker onlyĒ label, he has been catching literally everything. And some of these balls are a ways away from his body.

-The backup QB battle put on the Josh Johnson cap today. He hit nicely on a couple deep throws while Smith appeared to be locking on to guys and skipping out on progressions. He doesnít like being in the pocket for long. He had a solid 2 minute drill at the end of practice though with an accurate bullet to WR Harris in traffic.

-QB Manning to TE Engram is becoming something scary to watch if you are the opposition. It legitimately looks like these two are developing chemistry over the middle. Engram made an excellent catch on an even better ball from Manning for a TD. LB Goodson has solid coverage but he didnít locate the ball.

-QB Davis Webb looked more comfortable in his limited 7 on 7 looks today. He made an errant throw that came from poor lower body mechanics but he knew it right away. He is on the right path Iíd say. His live snaps have been very limited.

DEFENSE NOTES

-LB Munson got some second team action today with LB Herzlich being out. He has looked fast and aggressive when moving downhill, but he doesnít look like a factor in coverage. But Iím not sure he understands the overall lateral speed of the game yet, his angles have been very off. For a guy that isnít big, he brings some pop when filling the lanes. If this team goes with 6 LBs, he has a decent shot.

-LB Stansly Maponga is another LB that has a shot if this team goes with 6 LBs. He is a 3-4 OLB type that does his best work rushing the passer or taking on tackles in the trenches. Remember, NYG has been looking for this kind of player. A guy that can almost use at the stand up pass rusher but can fulfill some OLB roles. I donít see the necessary twitchiness but he is getting a lot of looks in practice in different roles. He is a heavy handed, physical guy.

-The question on S Eric Pinkins and his value to the team is, can he cover athletic tight ends and running backs? He is tall, fast, and strong. We know thatÖ.but can he plant his foot in the ground and shadow quality route runners? Thatís the question with him, he is stiff-hipped. He may have had the hit of the day on WR Rudolph over the middle.

-DE Pierre-Paul and DT Harrison with a really nice combo stunt in live team drills, the play would have resulted in a Harrison sack. Those two have been very solid. It looked to me that OT Hart would have been the culprit.

-DE Avery Moss beat OT Flowers with a simple speed rush which would have resulted in a sack.

-DE Jordan Williams hasnít gotten a lot of talk from me but he gets moved around a lot and despite being undersized for inside play, he has held his own. He has some pass rush potential in there. He beat both Adam Gettis and Brett Jones today for likely sacks.

-CBs Nigel Tribune and DeShaun Amos had a few up and down plays. Both can locate the ball well but both were badly fooled on double routes. I think those guys are vying for practice squad spots at best. Amos with the slight edge.

3 STANDOUTS

-CB Janoris Jenkins: I said this last week, but I like to see a guy that completely ignoes his own size limitations. Jenkins plays big, physical, and aggressive. He intercepted two passes in traffic today, one of which I still donít know how he came down with. He is a competitor that does an excellent job keeping his hands off his man but sticks to them like glue.

-RB Paul Perkins: With the extra attention in the backfield today, Perkins got my attention a few times. It is very hard to really gauge the RBs in practice because you canít see them try to break tackles, as that is where the live action ends. It is just a very limited look. However Perkins made a few reads to day to find open cutback lanes that would have resulted in huge gains. I loved this kid out of UCLA and I am excited to see him work. He has upper tier balance, agility, and short area burst. Itís a great tri of traits for a RB to have.

-WR Dwayne Harris: He looked very explosive with the ball in his hands yesterday during return driils. Powerfully built and nice top end speed. Today he made a few really nice catches where he had to really reach for the ball away from his body. He is the dependable guy you want to see spell one of the main guys when needed.
Excellent stuff!  
deeptoleft : 8/8/2017 5:00 pm : link
Thanks so much for this. Really interested to see Pinkins on Friday night. Hope he gets a long look.
Love reading that Eli and  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 8/8/2017 5:01 pm : link
Engram are developing a connection. Those Rebels stick together.
This guy for some reason is really down on Perkins  
fredgbrown : 8/8/2017 5:04 pm : link
this season. I realize this is fantasy football but are the jokes really necessary. I think Perkins will put up 1350 yards rushing with 6 to 7 tds and about 250 to 350 passing yards with another 2 to 3 tds.


link - ( New Window )
awesome Sy'....thanks.  
Andy in Boston : 8/8/2017 5:11 pm : link
Is Fluker still working with the 3's?

who do you think is the inside track on the last WR spot? or who's ahead among Lewis, Powe, Rudolph?
RE: awesome Sy'....thanks.  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/8/2017 5:12 pm : link
In comment 13553141 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
Is Fluker still working with the 3's?

who do you think is the inside track on the last WR spot? or who's ahead among Lewis, Powe, Rudolph?


Andy, Fluker has been working with the second team. He also got some work with the third team to increase his versatility.
RE: RE: awesome Sy'....thanks.  
Andy in Boston : 8/8/2017 5:17 pm : link
In comment 13553145 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13553141 Andy in Boston said:


Quote:


Is Fluker still working with the 3's?

who do you think is the inside track on the last WR spot? or who's ahead among Lewis, Powe, Rudolph?



Andy, Fluker has been working with the second team. He also got some work with the third team to increase his versatility.


got it...thanks. when I saw he was with the 3rd team at LG and RT, I wasn't sure if that was a bad sign, etc.
Thanks, Sy!  
TC : 8/8/2017 5:21 pm : link
Your reports are almost like being there!
Great  
AcidTest : 8/8/2017 5:22 pm : link
stuff. Thanks. Awesome.
Jerry's always been a better pass than run blocker  
jeff57 : 8/8/2017 5:43 pm : link
.
RE: Jerry's always been a better pass than run blocker  
Beer Man : 8/8/2017 6:00 pm : link
In comment 13553180 jeff57 said:
Quote:
.
Yep, its his run blocking that keeps him from being a great OG.
Sy which depth players can step in for a starter and not hurt the team  
idinkido : 8/8/2017 6:01 pm : link
We seem to have a lot of good competition this camp and it seems it's going to be hard to cut certain players.
Jerry has the potential  
XBRONX : 8/8/2017 6:03 pm : link
to be an elite pass blocker? He is 31 years old. He is not going to get better after 7 years in the league
RE: Jerry has the potential  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/8/2017 6:06 pm : link
In comment 13553194 XBRONX said:
Quote:
to be an elite pass blocker? He is 31 years old. He is not going to get better after 7 years in the league


Except I would argue that Jerry had arguably his best season last year at the age of 30.
I agree Eric  
XBRONX : 8/8/2017 6:08 pm : link
but dont see him getting better.
John Jerry  
JerseyCityJoe : 8/8/2017 6:23 pm : link
I think we will see better play out of him this year. He has improved quite a bit after terrible play most 2015. I remember being impressed how he started playing better towards the tail end of that season. He had a decent year in 2016 and worked his tail off at Bentley's with Richburg in the off season. I like him and he has some nasty to his game as well.
Kinda typical of the Giants...  
manh george : 8/8/2017 6:58 pm : link
from no quality TEs, to more talent than they can possibly keep. Any chance that Tye could end up as the fullback? At 6'2" 265, he is certainly built for it. And given his erratic college experience, it wouldn't be all that surprising if he kept improving technique-wise.
RE: I agree Eric  
arcarsenal : 8/8/2017 7:08 pm : link
In comment 13553201 XBRONX said:
Quote:
but dont see him getting better.


Why? He just did last season. How do we know whether or not he's capped off there?
RE: Offensive line  
Go Terps : 8/8/2017 7:37 pm : link
I think a "Show me" attitude with the entire offensive line is fair. I know I'm not confident in any of it, and won't be until proven otherwise. I think last year McAdoo (wisely) coached around the line with his game management, play calling, and personnel package decisions.

It's not crazy to have a lot of doubts.
Jerry strength  
XBRONX : 8/8/2017 7:41 pm : link
has always been pass pro, even when he was with the Dolphins.
Really  
Fish : 8/8/2017 7:42 pm : link
A phenomenal job. Thanks for this.
I'd rather have the mauler true FB  
David B. : 8/8/2017 8:05 pm : link
Weapons in the pass game, they have.

Give me Smith.
Great Job Sy  
noro9 : 8/8/2017 8:08 pm : link
Thanks
Terrific Stuff  
Percy : 8/8/2017 8:17 pm : link
Thanks, Sy. Great work.
I agree with you Terps  
Bluesbreaker : 8/8/2017 9:15 pm : link
want to see this team run the ball with more consistency especially in short yardage . I think we have enough talent
to let Tye go and let LaCosse and Adams develop .
I was a bit hopeful for Stansly Maponga he might end up
being a decent pass rusher . Harris seems to be healthy
once again hopefully his return game is better this year .

RE: This guy for some reason is really down on Perkins  
Jimmy Googs : 8/8/2017 9:44 pm : link
In comment 13553136 fredgbrown said:
Quote:
this season. I realize this is fantasy football but are the jokes really necessary. I think Perkins will put up 1350 yards rushing with 6 to 7 tds and about 250 to 350 passing yards with another 2 to 3 tds.
link - ( New Window )


if he does what you say, we are at least making the NFC Championship game...maybe we bring it down a few notches?
great stuff as always Sy  
Jints in Carolina : 8/8/2017 9:59 pm : link
How has Shepard looked? Any doubts about his ankle?
RE: awesome Sy'....thanks.  
Sy'56 : 8/8/2017 10:07 pm : link
In comment 13553141 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
Is Fluker still working with the 3's?

who do you think is the inside track on the last WR spot? or who's ahead among Lewis, Powe, Rudolph?


Fluker is the first OL off the bench if anyone gets hurt unless it's Richburg.
RE: Jerry has the potential  
Sy'56 : 8/8/2017 10:08 pm : link
In comment 13553194 XBRONX said:
Quote:
to be an elite pass blocker? He is 31 years old. He is not going to get better after 7 years in the league


Year 2 under Solari can bring him to the next level, yes.
RE: great stuff as always Sy  
Sy'56 : 8/8/2017 10:09 pm : link
In comment 13553447 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
How has Shepard looked? Any doubts about his ankle?


He is involved early in practice, but not in love action. I don't think they want him doing reactionary movement yet. I doubt he plays this Friday night.
The Final 53 is beyond me at this point  
lono801 : 8/8/2017 10:16 pm : link
I have no idea what this roster is going to look like...

Great problem to have...
Interesting about Tye lining  
chopperhatch : 8/8/2017 10:25 pm : link
Up as a FB. He is certainly built like one. If they can get him to run block with some physicality, could you see him being our "FB"? Would he interesting to have him as a pass catching threat as well as a blocking threat. Hes 20 lbs heavier than both of the other guys and moves better than them.

Jerry's inability to run block has always puzzled me. He is built like a brick shithouse and has good feet. Very frustrating that he can't move these assholes out of out RBs' way.

Thanks again for your report.
Just seems like we are all hoping the O-line is better but  
Jimmy Googs : 8/9/2017 8:18 am : link
that a big disappointment is heading our way beginning Friday night versus Pitt.

Other than maybe having a healthy Pugh and Richburg allowing them to play at their standard, the others are just going to regress to their inconsistencies and individual breakdowns that get plays/drives blown up.

Maybe our new offensive weapons, and using more of the field with different players will help keep the defense off-balance a bit. But have a feeling that 3rd and medium to long will continue to be a struggle...
Sy you really do a great job with these  
bigblue1124 : 8/9/2017 8:19 am : link
Thank you. To both you and Gidie it is really appreciated.

At what point do you think the Giants just cut bait with Owa and possibly bring someone in who can actually compete or is it past that point now and ride it out until heís cut? At least to date I have seen nothing positive about him with the exception of a small blurb from you about beating a 2nd or 3rd stringer one or two times. He almost sounds like a waste of a roster spot at this point or am I being too critical?
RE: Just seems like we are all hoping the O-line is better but  
Klaatu : 8/9/2017 8:24 am : link
In comment 13553557 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
that a big disappointment is heading our way beginning Friday night versus Pitt.

Other than maybe having a healthy Pugh and Richburg allowing them to play at their standard, the others are just going to regress to their inconsistencies and individual breakdowns that get plays/drives blown up.

Maybe our new offensive weapons, and using more of the field with different players will help keep the defense off-balance a bit. But have a feeling that 3rd and medium to long will continue to be a struggle...


Thank you, Little Mary Sunshine.

The only thing I want to see on Friday is the Giants running the ball more effectively than they did last year. I don't think Eli will play - he didn't play in the first preseason game last year - but the first team O-Line probably will. Open some holes, fellas, please.
RE: RE: Just seems like we are all hoping the O-line is better but  
section125 : 8/9/2017 8:43 am : link
In comment 13553561 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 13553557 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


that a big disappointment is heading our way beginning Friday night versus Pitt.

Other than maybe having a healthy Pugh and Richburg allowing them to play at their standard, the others are just going to regress to their inconsistencies and individual breakdowns that get plays/drives blown up.

Maybe our new offensive weapons, and using more of the field with different players will help keep the defense off-balance a bit. But have a feeling that 3rd and medium to long will continue to be a struggle...



Thank you, Little Mary Sunshine.

The only thing I want to see on Friday is the Giants running the ball more effectively than they did last year. I don't think Eli will play - he didn't play in the first preseason game last year - but the first team O-Line probably will. Open some holes, fellas, please.


Beat me to it. Between Jimmy and Doomster I haven't a clue as to who is more negative.

But as far as Friday night, Flowers and Hart will get some reps. Most important thing is to maintain the proper technique even if beat. It appears that after the first few days, Flowers is beginning to trust the proper method now that he has had some success. Success breeds success. Maybe keep a FB in there to protect the QBs backside early to let Flowers practice the techniques, but it is imperative he gets enough reps to build.
These daily updates are amazing  
aimrocky : 8/9/2017 8:44 am : link
thanks for spending the time writing this!
section125  
Klaatu : 8/9/2017 8:50 am : link
Actually, Doomster has been surprisingly positive this offseason. Could be he's just been drinking the Kool-Aid or it could be something else, something far more sinister like these folks believe:



With Googs, you never know if he's being serious or not, or just drinking something other than Kool-Aid.
RE: RE: Just seems like we are all hoping the O-line is better but  
UberAlias : 8/9/2017 9:10 am : link
In comment 13553561 Klaatu said:
Quote:
The only thing I want to see on Friday is the Giants running the ball more effectively than they did last year. I don't think Eli will play - he didn't play in the first preseason game last year - but the first team O-Line probably will. Open some holes, fellas, please.


Totally agree, Klaatu. Their inability to run the ball effectively has really held this offense back. Especially when you have a guy like Odell drawing coverage. With Odell's ability to stretch the field, he should be consistently demanding double teams or at least forcing a safety to creep back. Yet despite this the running game remains one of the league's worst.
RE: Interesting about Tye lining  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/9/2017 9:13 am : link
In comment 13553471 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
Up as a FB. He is certainly built like one. If they can get him to run block with some physicality, could you see him being our "FB"? Would he interesting to have him as a pass catching threat as well as a blocking threat. Hes 20 lbs heavier than both of the other guys and moves better than them.

Jerry's inability to run block has always puzzled me. He is built like a brick shithouse and has good feet. Very frustrating that he can't move these assholes out of out RBs' way.

Thanks again for your report.


RE Tye at fullback: he doesn't strike me as a guy who is unafraid of contact, kind of a requirement for playing FB.

And regarding Jerry, it's interesting. Pass protection is more reaction-based than run blocking. Maybe he just does better when he can backstep and see the guy ahead of him coming.
RE: RE: RE: Just seems like we are all hoping the O-line is better but  
Klaatu : 8/9/2017 9:15 am : link
In comment 13553593 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 13553561 Klaatu said:


Quote:


The only thing I want to see on Friday is the Giants running the ball more effectively than they did last year. I don't think Eli will play - he didn't play in the first preseason game last year - but the first team O-Line probably will. Open some holes, fellas, please.



Totally agree, Klaatu. Their inability to run the ball effectively has really held this offense back. Especially when you have a guy like Odell drawing coverage. With Odell's ability to stretch the field, he should be consistently demanding double teams or at least forcing a safety to creep back. Yet despite this the running game remains one of the league's worst.


I'm thinking about making play-action more effective, too. Make the defense hesitate, even for a split-second, and guys like Beckham and Engram should have a field day.
RE: RE: Just seems like we are all hoping the O-line is better but  
Diver_Down : 8/9/2017 9:15 am : link
In comment 13553561 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 13553557 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


that a big disappointment is heading our way beginning Friday night versus Pitt.

Other than maybe having a healthy Pugh and Richburg allowing them to play at their standard, the others are just going to regress to their inconsistencies and individual breakdowns that get plays/drives blown up.

Maybe our new offensive weapons, and using more of the field with different players will help keep the defense off-balance a bit. But have a feeling that 3rd and medium to long will continue to be a struggle...



Thank you, Little Mary Sunshine.

The only thing I want to see on Friday is the Giants running the ball more effectively than they did last year. I don't think Eli will play - he didn't play in the first preseason game last year - but the first team O-Line probably will. Open some holes, fellas, please.


The one positive about Friday's game is that Harrison will likely not play. With Harrison's strength, he would likely tear off Flowers' arm when Ereck inevitably deploys his clothesline choke-hold technique. I presume that Geno or Josh would not look forward to being clubbed by Ereck's nub.
Sy reports are great reads.  
Beezer : 8/9/2017 9:17 am : link
Marty-esque.

And every day, truly appreciated. So much good insider stuff.
Article from today  
UberAlias : 8/9/2017 9:17 am : link
on how running game is shaping up.
Link - ( New Window )
can't read those superb reports  
grizz299 : 8/9/2017 9:45 am : link
without a touch of sadness. "Cut Day" and kids who have worked their whole lifes for a chance and are great great athletes are going th have their dreams ended and their lives compromised.
All the hard work and sometimes it comes down to such a small thing. Great athletes with tremendous adjustments to make, and it's so damn difficult to let go and view "ordinary" with courage.
Uber  
Bill2 : 8/9/2017 10:17 am : link
The linked article is most disturbing to me when it quotes Richburg that the biggest problem last year was missed assignments. That's a quote.

Since they played the same very simple scheme 95% of every play...that's a damming assessment.

No wonder Eli was skittish. He would know the play was fundamentally blown within a second ( the first two steps of the 5 guys in front of him).

We do not know the Giants grades on their own players but we do know they score the percent of times assignments are blown per game and review those the position meetings after each game. Therefore Richburgs comment is reasonably likely not just a personal opinion...but reflective of actual facts.

Of all the speculation and opinions about the OL...that quote really bothers me the most.

imho
RE: section125  
Jimmy Googs : 8/9/2017 10:24 am : link
In comment 13553580 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Actually, Doomster has been surprisingly positive this offseason. Could be he's just been drinking the Kool-Aid or it could be something else, something far more sinister like these folks believe:



With Googs, you never know if he's being serious or not, or just drinking something other than Kool-Aid.


Guys I am being serious, and there is nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade. If you only want to respond to people talking about rainbows and pots of gold, then do it. Otherwise send me your debate vs the criticism.

Our defense didn't magically get better last year with the same players. There was an overhaul with free agents and rookies. But we didn't approach that this year with the O-line as you know. We are literally asking the same 5 guys to just....be better. That is questionable plan at best.

You know you feel at least directionally the same way otherwise you wouldn't be saying "PLEASE open some running lanes" in your own posts. Or others wouldn't be haven't such a hard-on about any type of news on Fluker and his progress with the 2nd and 3rd teamers. Fans are begging for him to be a possible improvement to the what they already know is a problem with the starters.

alas, as I said earlier, I think the best chance is that the new offensive players are more productive to take pressure of the O-line. But its kind of a circle-argument b/c you know the line still has to perform well.

Or we will go down to the wire again with good defense and praying for the 1-point wins...
Giants were running with  
PEEJ : 8/9/2017 10:27 am : link
"one hand tied behind their back" They couldn't threaten outside the tackles because of their poor TE blocking and Jennings lack of speed.
With better blocking at the edges and Perkins in the backfield their playbook is open to some new pages
Bill2  
UberAlias : 8/9/2017 11:01 am : link
Agreed, it is a concern. They are pointing to continuity as a reason for improvement, yet that's the same strategy we heard a year ago after failing to draft an OL or bring in anyone of note via free agency, and the results ran counter to what we were hoping for.

There were no major answers to address the issue. We're all hoping the various incremental changes will amount to something positively.
I loved the Wheeler signing  
Jay on the Island : 8/9/2017 1:04 pm : link
and it appears that he is performing just as I had hoped. I liked Wheeler's upside more than Biz's and if he keeps improving he is a lock for a backup spot and it is possible that he begins the season as the swing tackle.
thanks Sy....  
BillKo : 8/9/2017 1:44 pm : link
although I have one comment.

John Jerry? I mean.....isn't at this point in his career to stop talking about potential and realize he is what he is, just an average guard?

It was my hope he wouldn't be starting this fall.
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