Fascinating stuff, this Leah Remini show. Granted, it's slow AF, and the delivery is sometimes annoying, but I find it fascinating, all the rules/laws L. Ron wrote and they still follow, how they appear to try to ruin/dismantle the lives of any people who either leave their clutches or try to discredit them from the outside.
I find it completely amazing that so many people are so easily drawn in by this and other cults.
The more you learn, the more crazy it looks.
If you're a BBI Scientologist/Cult member, sorry/not sorry.
He said a very large portion of what he had to write in his report was about his entire life's experiences with sex - everything. They he'd write pages about the most intimate things and they'd "evaluate" and send him back to write more, saying that wasn't enough. lol
Whaaaat?
Seriously drawing that line?
The HBO special on Scientology was great. Paul Haggis was particularly interesting. He described how when one gets to the highest level of the church, having spent millions to attain the highest level, they finally let you in on the big L. Ron Hubbard secret. It involves the whole alien scenario, with Xenu and depositing souls into Earthly volcanoes, etc.
His reactions was "Are you fucking kidding me? This is the payoff?!"
It was really eye opening, and amazing to hear a high profile guy admit he'd been duped.
2. Wiff Waff
3. Mad Plaid
4. TD
5. Kyle
6. Dylan Fan"
Plenty of "organized religions" that have far-fetched story lines for folks who like proof, or science (literally), but are still not considered "cults" by the average standard of such a thing.
Link - ( New Window )
And also not to sound atheistic or offensive, but all religions are scams. People are of course entitled to have whatever faith they want, it's one of our founding principles in the US, but it doesn't make them any less of a scam.
And it's kind of hypocritical for someone of one religion to point the finger at another and say "they're crazy" they all are. Biggest scam on the planet.
just some are more widely accepted so you can point your finger and laugh at the others.
The HBO special on Scientology was great. Paul Haggis was particularly interesting. He described how when one gets to the highest level of the church, having spent millions to attain the highest level, they finally let you in on the big L. Ron Hubbard secret. It involves the whole alien scenario, with Xenu and depositing souls into Earthly volcanoes, etc.
His reactions was "Are you fucking kidding me? This is the payoff?!"
It was really eye opening, and amazing to hear a high profile guy admit he'd been duped.
Xenu, Thetans, Volcanoes, I can get on board with all of that. All completely non-falsifiable claims, nothing we haven't seen from other creation myths. Who am I to say that those are not primal forces of the universe.
But the DC-8s? That's where I hop off.
And also not to sound atheistic or offensive, but all religions are scams. People are of course entitled to have whatever faith they want, it's one of our founding principles in the US, but it doesn't make them any less of a scam.
And it's kind of hypocritical for someone of one religion to point the finger at another and say "they're crazy" they all are. Biggest scam on the planet.
just some are more widely accepted so you can point your finger and laugh at the others.
how did your 7 year old brother order something online in the mid-80s?
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it's a scam, and they tried to recruit my 7 year old brother who ordered Dianetics online with a COD payment in the mid-80's.
And also not to sound atheistic or offensive, but all religions are scams. People are of course entitled to have whatever faith they want, it's one of our founding principles in the US, but it doesn't make them any less of a scam.
And it's kind of hypocritical for someone of one religion to point the finger at another and say "they're crazy" they all are. Biggest scam on the planet.
just some are more widely accepted so you can point your finger and laugh at the others.
how did your 7 year old brother order something online in the mid-80s?
Sorry, on the phone. he also ordered gut buster, COD and we had to send that back too.
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it's a scam, and they tried to recruit my 7 year old brother who ordered Dianetics online with a COD payment in the mid-80's.
And also not to sound atheistic or offensive, but all religions are scams. People are of course entitled to have whatever faith they want, it's one of our founding principles in the US, but it doesn't make them any less of a scam.
And it's kind of hypocritical for someone of one religion to point the finger at another and say "they're crazy" they all are. Biggest scam on the planet.
just some are more widely accepted so you can point your finger and laugh at the others.
how did your 7 year old brother order something online in the mid-80s?
bahahahahahahahahaha
Putting Scientology aside for a moment - if I look at the churches and religious organizations in my area, whether they are Catholic, Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, etc. they all have an open book policy where the congregations understand what outlays are going to the pastors and what is going towards facility improvements, etc.
The organizations that do not follow this rule are non-denominational places - one of which has become a Mega church. There, the financials are controlled by a select few and no visibility is given, either to other church members or the public. That's when fingers can and should be pointed.
There are few crimes I deem more shitty than coercing or outright stealing from those seeking guidance. The worst part is that these places have protection to do exactly that.
With the other larger/more common religions there is a historical timeline where the stories can be traced through different religions & cultures. Same stories, different names type of deal to fit the narrative. Can't really do that with Scientology.
They will too. When my brother ordered Dianetics two men showed up to personally deliver it. When I told them he was 7 years old (I was 12) they were shocked and surprised, but still wanted to meet with him (and me), my mother intervened and they left very quickly after that.
Putting Scientology aside for a moment - if I look at the churches and religious organizations in my area, whether they are Catholic, Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, etc. they all have an open book policy where the congregations understand what outlays are going to the pastors and what is going towards facility improvements, etc.
The organizations that do not follow this rule are non-denominational places - one of which has become a Mega church. There, the financials are controlled by a select few and no visibility is given, either to other church members or the public. That's when fingers can and should be pointed.
There are few crimes I deem more shitty than coercing or outright stealing from those seeking guidance. The worst part is that these places have protection to do exactly that.
I have no disagreement there, and they're popping up here too in MA. and they don't meet in traditional churches, they have almost strip mall office like "churches".
People are easily duped, and are so super willing to believe in faith, a higher power, and fear death and the after life so much they are willing to accept a lot without evidence. I guess that's the whole point of faith.
They basically fire off question after question with little time for subject to think of thier answer. The question range from random and meaniless to very personal. Its apparently very intense and I think some who left Scientology still use this for therapy reasons. I can see how some can mistake it for a spiritual experience.
I'm 1/4 Scientologist. Not too shabby.
Keep in mind that in many Muslim countries around the world, huge majorities support the death penalty (not an exaggeration) for apostasy.
To say nothing of (what they view as) blasphemy & slander...as Salman Rushdie could attest.
Mafia-esquire intimidation akin to - let's face it, worse than - anything Scientology does.
I agree. Given enough time any strange practice can become tradition and sacred.
I gotta say though. Even though, IMO all theology is stupid, Almost all of the mainstream relgions today have benefitted society in some ways over the years. They all have similar moral codes to live by, provide valuable life lessons, helped bring peace and balance to many lives. Plus there is all the charities, orphanages, recording of histories and philosophies these relgions have provided.
The only thing Scientology has ever given us is Battlefield Earth.
What ever happened there? I can't remember if there was a final chapter to all that.
I think what is stupid is using theology to craft and enforce social mores, and that's pretty much what all religions do.
We shouldn't commit adultery out of decency, not because there were supposedly stone tablets saying not to. My issue is that instead of people using common sense to dictate behavior, they are often influenced or guilted into behaviors that have been translated, mutated and misinterpreted from centuries ago.
I feel like I fall into a gray area where I have faith, but no beholdance to religion. I believe in a higher power and am very curious how our origins came about and if there's an afterlife, but I have utter disdain for anyone trying to dictate what my beliefs or behaviors should be. Part of being a human is having the ability to think for oneself and make my own decisions.
At its best - organized religion acts as a support structure for those who can't lead their own way. At its worst, religion is a vehicle (and a protected one at that) to bilk people out of money, brainwash their thinking and control their actions. All organized religions do this in some form.
As to general criticisms of religion vs. Scientology, I'm hard pressed to think of an organized religion that requires cutting off contact with non-believers. And I won't call Scientology a religion, it's a cult created by a whackadoodle to make money while he avoided taxes.
But:
Beezer : 10:50 am : link : reply
years ago you had mentioned your then-neighborhood (may have moved?) was being "bought up" by a "religious organization/cult."
What ever happened there? I can't remember if there was a final chapter to all that.
It still exists and to this day the old PTL tower still stands in its crumbling mess. The organization that took it over is called Morningstar Ministries, led by a guy named Rick Joyner, who has started at least two other organizations considered cults by a lot of people. They used to have a program called "Faith Warriors" where young adults would pay thousands of dollars to come learn how to "fight evil". what they were doing was collecting $25K a year and putting them in residential homes in my area. Homes that had been modified sometimes to accommodate up to 35 people with extra rooms being added. The County Zoning Board stepped in and after a couple of years, the program was gone, but the ministry is still there and preaches Prosperity Gospel - basically, what you give to the Church will be returned to you 100 fold. We've since moved from that neighborhood
But my area is an epicenter of this. We have an organization - Elevation Church who has a pastor, Steven Furtick who may be the fastest growing minister in the non-denominational world right now. He's created a Megachurch, and has recently teamed up with 5 other similar pastors in SC and NC to serve on each others boards and share wealth. A recent investigation looked into his $1.7M home. A "gift from God he calls it". We have several venues for the Inspiration Network here, another organization where the founder of the "City of Light" has a $2.2M home.
Fraud is rampant and yet there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it.
Gift From God My Ass - ( New Window )
Hello! My name is Elder Price and I would like to share with you the most amazing book.
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They're all nuts.
I agree. Given enough time any strange practice can become tradition and sacred.
I gotta say though. Even though, IMO all theology is stupid, Almost all of the mainstream relgions today have benefitted society in some ways over the years. They all have similar moral codes to live by, provide valuable life lessons, helped bring peace and balance to many lives. Plus there is all the charities, orphanages, recording of histories and philosophies these relgions have provided.
The only thing Scientology has ever given us is Battlefield Earth.
I don't know about bringing peace. More people have probably been killed in the name of religion than any other cause.
I think what is stupid is using theology to craft and enforce social mores, and that's pretty much what all religions do.
We shouldn't commit adultery out of decency, not because there were supposedly stone tablets saying not to. My issue is that instead of people using common sense to dictate behavior, they are often influenced or guilted into behaviors that have been translated, mutated and misinterpreted from centuries ago.
I feel like I fall into a gray area where I have faith, but no beholdance to religion. I believe in a higher power and am very curious how our origins came about and if there's an afterlife, but I have utter disdain for anyone trying to dictate what my beliefs or behaviors should be. Part of being a human is having the ability to think for oneself and make my own decisions.
At its best - organized religion acts as a support structure for those who can't lead their own way. At its worst, religion is a vehicle (and a protected one at that) to bilk people out of money, brainwash their thinking and control their actions. All organized religions do this in some form.
I agree. I believe in a god or higher power, but don't think any can know the nature of god is or what it wants from us - if anything. That why I think Theology is stupid. That and the fact that it creates wars between peoples who pretty much believe in the same morals anyway.
I get that theology helped to ingrain these morals into barbaric, tribal peoples in ancient and mideivel times. People at those times weren't going to work to build a better society unless they thought it would grant them ever lasting peace after they died. But now we know the benifits of a peaceful society, so I still believe thelogy is stupid.
The true value of religions are the lessons they teach us. Judaism's symbolisms and philosophies, Jesus's sermons and Christianities 7 virtues and deadly sins, Islams Five Pillars, Buddhism's meditations. All have made life a little better where they were taught.
Scientology's lesson is - abandon your family and pay us money then maybe you can be happy.
Not gonna further name names of more mainstream politicians given the safe space Eric has created for the needy among us, but it's a given that politicians flat lie about how religious they are either to directly exploit the credulous or merely not to create a controversy over not being a believer. Sorry, "controversy".
More people should come out about their secularism so it is fully normalized & accepted (I say the same about marijuana smokers, but I digress...) just as gay marriage was. When a former bigot discovers it's not just some "queers on Castro" fucking each other, but your neighbor and your mailman and your kid's teacher, the other factor summarily dissipates.
It's happening anyway as millienials age but it would be nice to see it fast-tracked so we can fully transcend medieval dead weight upon our country.
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In comment 13553701 Go Terps said:
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They're all nuts.
I agree. Given enough time any strange practice can become tradition and sacred.
I gotta say though. Even though, IMO all theology is stupid, Almost all of the mainstream relgions today have benefitted society in some ways over the years. They all have similar moral codes to live by, provide valuable life lessons, helped bring peace and balance to many lives. Plus there is all the charities, orphanages, recording of histories and philosophies these relgions have provided.
The only thing Scientology has ever given us is Battlefield Earth.
I don't know about bringing peace. More people have probably been killed in the name of religion than any other cause.
I'm personally in a similar place to Fat Man. No religion to defend here. But your statement is patently false, though oft-repeated. Unless you include just about any ideology within religion.
Seriously drawing that line?
There's pretty much little to no difference. You're calling out a religion/cult.
Truth. It's just that Scientology is newer than the other more ingrained relations. Guy walks on water and turns water into wine? Cool. Volcano turns aliens into humans? Weird and laughable.
Religion is a joke.
ThatLimerickGuy : 11:49 am : link : reply
That scientology is basically just a very well planned out tax evasion scam.
With the other larger/more common religions there is a historical timeline where the stories can be traced through different religions & cultures. Same stories, different names type of deal to fit the narrative. Can't really do that with Scientology.
Lol.
+1
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That scientology is basically just a very well planned out tax evasion scam.
+1
They all are.
The book/ documentary by Lawrence Wright 'going clear' is also a must watch, and it inspired Leah to come out
No way. Territory, natural resources, and wealth is what really gets people killed en masse.