Fascinating stuff, this Leah Remini show. Granted, it's slow AF, and the delivery is sometimes annoying, but I find it fascinating, all the rules/laws L. Ron wrote and they still follow, how they appear to try to ruin/dismantle the lives of any people who either leave their clutches or try to discredit them from the outside.
I find it completely amazing that so many people are so easily drawn in by this and other cults.
The more you learn, the more crazy it looks.
If you're a BBI Scientologist/Cult member, sorry/not sorry.
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"Doesn't sound crazy" litmus test.
Truth. It's just that Scientology is newer than the other more ingrained relations. Guy walks on water and turns water into wine? Cool. Volcano turns aliens into humans? Weird and laughable.
Religion is a joke.
Right, or part the red sea, split the moon or leave lotus flowers in your footsteps. Every religion has some basis in supernatural stuff that is probably the product of tall tales and people's imaginations taking root and being treated as facts.
So, sure. Make fun of Scientologists. But if you go to church or synagogue for services, you probably shouldn't feel too smug. :)
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In comment 13553795 ThatLimerickGuy said:
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That scientology is basically just a very well planned out tax evasion scam.
+1
They all are.
My religion predates the U.S. tax code by doezens, if not thousands, of years.
Quote:
Deej ... Really?
Seriously drawing that line?
There's pretty much little to no difference. You're calling out a religion/cult.
Well. All right.
I agree most religions require a leap of faith, but scams, don t agree with that.
My religion predates the U.S. tax code by doezens, if not thousands, of years.
Taxes, control and power.
I agree most religions require a leap of faith, but scams, don t agree with that.
Well, no more than one religion is correct. So a lot of people preaching the truth are in fact not telling the truth.
It's gonna be funny when we find out that Zoroastrianism was right all along. Or some 18-person tribe in Papua New Guinea nailed it.
Just a sea of Godlessness on this thread. You people are delightful.
...
I agree most religions require a leap of faith, but scams, don t agree with that.
I don't mean to be offensive, I know people are fervent about their religions so I don't mean to demean them. Any of them and I'd never suggest people should not be free to pursue any religion they'd like.
but yes, I think they are all scams.
back to medieval times and before, it's all been a scam.
and I'm 100% not trying to influence people to live any differently. Have faith if that's your prerogative. It's important for people to believe that after they die they go to a better place. Or sometimes even comforting after losing a loved one to believe that they're in a better place.
That's the leap of faith part and I would never be pompous enough to suggest people should not be free to follow whatever faith they feel is right for them, but the money part, the common theme in almost every religion, is the scam and besides the money I find them to be hypocritical in most cases too, but that's another story.
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theology is stupid. I think there should be a natural curiosity of where we originated and where we are going.
I think what is stupid is using theology to craft and enforce social mores, and that's pretty much what all religions do.
We shouldn't commit adultery out of decency, not because there were supposedly stone tablets saying not to. My issue is that instead of people using common sense to dictate behavior, they are often influenced or guilted into behaviors that have been translated, mutated and misinterpreted from centuries ago.
I feel like I fall into a gray area where I have faith, but no beholdance to religion. I believe in a higher power and am very curious how our origins came about and if there's an afterlife, but I have utter disdain for anyone trying to dictate what my beliefs or behaviors should be. Part of being a human is having the ability to think for oneself and make my own decisions.
At its best - organized religion acts as a support structure for those who can't lead their own way. At its worst, religion is a vehicle (and a protected one at that) to bilk people out of money, brainwash their thinking and control their actions. All organized religions do this in some form.
I agree. I believe in a god or higher power, but don't think any can know the nature of god is or what it wants from us - if anything. That why I think Theology is stupid. That and the fact that it creates wars between peoples who pretty much believe in the same morals anyway.
I get that theology helped to ingrain these morals into barbaric, tribal peoples in ancient and mideivel times. People at those times weren't going to work to build a better society unless they thought it would grant them ever lasting peace after they died. But now we know the benifits of a peaceful society, so I still believe thelogy is stupid.
The true value of religions are the lessons they teach us. Judaism's symbolisms and philosophies, Jesus's sermons and Christianities 7 virtues and deadly sins, Islams Five Pillars, Buddhism's meditations. All have made life a little better where they were taught.
Scientology's lesson is - abandon your family and pay us money then maybe you can be happy.
This sounds very much like the screed that a person who doesn't believe cannot be a moral/ethical person. Absolute horseshit, of course, but it's a very common view, even among those professing to be Atheists.
Just a sea of Godlessness on this thread. You people are delightful.
Yes, because godfearing folks NEVER do anything bad
In other words: I was joking.
Just a sea of Godlessness on this thread. You people are delightful.
Where do I sign up?
The organizations that do not follow this rule are non-denominational places - one of which has become a Mega church. There, the financials are controlled by a select few and no visibility is given, either to other church members or the public. That's when fingers can and should be pointed.
I go to a non denominational church. It isn't what you described above at all. It's considered a mega church, but it doesn't fit the criteria above
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"Doesn't sound crazy" litmus test.
Truth. It's just that Scientology is newer than the other more ingrained relations. Guy walks on water and turns water into wine? Cool. Volcano turns aliens into humans? Weird and laughable.
Religion is a joke.
A joke? More like.....science fiction :)
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The organizations that do not follow this rule are non-denominational places - one of which has become a Mega church. There, the financials are controlled by a select few and no visibility is given, either to other church members or the public. That's when fingers can and should be pointed.
I go to a non denominational church. It isn't what you described above at all. It's considered a mega church, but it doesn't fit the criteria above
Same here. Church finances are controlled by a non-paid group of church members, and are available on the website for anyone to see.
While we arent a megachurch, we are a multi-campus chuch with several thousand members.
The HBO special on Scientology was great. Paul Haggis was particularly interesting. He described how when one gets to the highest level of the church, having spent millions to attain the highest level, they finally let you in on the big L. Ron Hubbard secret. It involves the whole alien scenario, with Xenu and depositing souls into Earthly volcanoes, etc.
His reactions was "Are you fucking kidding me? This is the payoff?!"
It was really eye opening, and amazing to hear a high profile guy admit he'd been duped.
South Park did a good job explaining it. Same with Mormonism
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More people have probably been killed in the name of religion than any other cause.
No way. Territory, natural resources, and wealth is what really gets people killed en masse.
Yeah. They have to stretch "religion" to tuck in Hitler, Stalin & Mao, which just doesn't fly imho.
It was also the case of a couple in Upstate SC too. and probably not coincidentally, the one in Anderson, SC has joined forces with one in Charlotte so that each pastor serves on the other's board.
As Friends with Benefits
It was also the case of a couple in Upstate SC too. and probably not coincidentally, the one in Anderson, SC has joined forces with one in Charlotte so that each pastor serves on the other's board.
As Friends with Benefits
I understand, but I wanted to chime in with my experience is all.
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In comment 13553756 Go Terps said:
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More people have probably been killed in the name of religion than any other cause.
No way. Territory, natural resources, and wealth is what really gets people killed en masse.
Yeah. They have to stretch "religion" to tuck in Hitler, Stalin & Mao, which just doesn't fly imho.
Hitler didn't commit genocide on 6M jews because of their religion?
that's a stretch to say that?
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In comment 13553823 Mr. Bungle said:
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In comment 13553756 Go Terps said:
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More people have probably been killed in the name of religion than any other cause.
No way. Territory, natural resources, and wealth is what really gets people killed en masse.
Yeah. They have to stretch "religion" to tuck in Hitler, Stalin & Mao, which just doesn't fly imho.
Hitler didn't commit genocide on 6M jews because of their religion?
that's a stretch to say that?
1. Hitler did not do that on behalf of a religion.
2. He also was responsible for the deaths of anywhere from 40 to 60 million gentiles/athiests. Besides his anti-Semitism, it was also a war of expansion. Territory. And Stalin and Mao are good for another 40 or 50 million.
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In comment 13553946 njm said:
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In comment 13553823 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 13553756 Go Terps said:
Quote:
More people have probably been killed in the name of religion than any other cause.
No way. Territory, natural resources, and wealth is what really gets people killed en masse.
Yeah. They have to stretch "religion" to tuck in Hitler, Stalin & Mao, which just doesn't fly imho.
Hitler didn't commit genocide on 6M jews because of their religion?
that's a stretch to say that?
1. Hitler did not do that on behalf of a religion.
2. He also was responsible for the deaths of anywhere from 40 to 60 million gentiles/athiests. Besides his anti-Semitism, it was also a war of expansion. Territory. And Stalin and Mao are good for another 40 or 50 million.
Hitler exterminated the jews because of their religion, not necessarily on behalf of one, I don't think when the statement was made that more people have been killed in the name of religion it wasn't made in either context.
look up the definition of genocide and then try and argue that the 6M jews killed during the holocaust weren't because of religion.
You can call BS on me if you want, but this legit happened 2 years ago:
My son, then a senior in high school, was playing football. There was a few minutes left in the game and his team was running out the clock. He was the trusted RB for this type of situation.
Anyways, he went down with a leg injury, an obvious clean break jusy above the ankle. Two kids on his team threw up on the field, one ran for the ambulance, one - who's Mom was a Dr ran to the crowd and yelled to his Mom - "Mom, its Tim! His leg is snapped! Its disgusting!"
By the time my wife and I got to the sideline, they had him loaded in the ambulance. There was a Dr with the ambulance crew that told us his leg was broken. The coach came over, with the game still going on, to talk to us. He said he saw the whole thing and was pretty shook. He was hoping Tim would be OK for baseball season, which was 6 months away.
From the time he went down with the injury, until we got to the hospital, I prayed.
When he got to the hospital they gave him morphine and took him right in to get XRays. When he got back to the room, I looked at his leg, and it didnt look too bad. Perhaps a little swolen.
Anyways, the Dr came in with the Xrays and told us there was no break. I asked him if he could have a radiologist check, because 5 people and my son himself told me they saw his leg bent at 90 degrees in a place where that waw not possible. He said that wasnt necessary, and sent him home. The next day I took him to the local sports medicine location, which is open on the weekend for sports injuries. They couldnt find a break either and said maybe it was sprained.
He wasnt in much pain, and by Wedesday was back at football practice. He played in the next game, and the rest of the year.
Is there a reasonable explanation for this? We give credit to our God. Is that foolish? Were all the people who saw his injury up close, including a Dr, wrong or does he have magic bones?
At the end of the year football banquet, the coach gave him a special award for "toughness", because in his words he was just hoping Tim would be able to walk again after seeing his injury, much less play in the next game.
You can call BS on me if you want, but this legit happened 2 years ago:
My son, then a senior in high school, was playing football. There was a few minutes left in the game and his team was running out the clock. He was the trusted RB for this type of situation.
Anyways, he went down with a leg injury, an obvious clean break jusy above the ankle. Two kids on his team threw up on the field, one ran for the ambulance, one - who's Mom was a Dr ran to the crowd and yelled to his Mom - "Mom, its Tim! His leg is snapped! Its disgusting!"
By the time my wife and I got to the sideline, they had him loaded in the ambulance. There was a Dr with the ambulance crew that told us his leg was broken. The coach came over, with the game still going on, to talk to us. He said he saw the whole thing and was pretty shook. He was hoping Tim would be OK for baseball season, which was 6 months away.
From the time he went down with the injury, until we got to the hospital, I prayed.
When he got to the hospital they gave him morphine and took him right in to get XRays. When he got back to the room, I looked at his leg, and it didnt look too bad. Perhaps a little swolen.
Anyways, the Dr came in with the Xrays and told us there was no break. I asked him if he could have a radiologist check, because 5 people and my son himself told me they saw his leg bent at 90 degrees in a place where that waw not possible. He said that wasnt necessary, and sent him home. The next day I took him to the local sports medicine location, which is open on the weekend for sports injuries. They couldnt find a break either and said maybe it was sprained.
He wasnt in much pain, and by Wedesday was back at football practice. He played in the next game, and the rest of the year.
Is there a reasonable explanation for this? We give credit to our God. Is that foolish? Were all the people who saw his injury up close, including a Dr, wrong or does he have magic bones?
At the end of the year football banquet, the coach gave him a special award for "toughness", because in his words he was just hoping Tim would be able to walk again after seeing his injury, much less play in the next game.
Because you didn't understand how or why something happened is not evidence of an intervention by a God.
Quote:
BS, mind over matter?
You can call BS on me if you want, but this legit happened 2 years ago:
My son, then a senior in high school, was playing football. There was a few minutes left in the game and his team was running out the clock. He was the trusted RB for this type of situation.
Anyways, he went down with a leg injury, an obvious clean break jusy above the ankle. Two kids on his team threw up on the field, one ran for the ambulance, one - who's Mom was a Dr ran to the crowd and yelled to his Mom - "Mom, its Tim! His leg is snapped! Its disgusting!"
By the time my wife and I got to the sideline, they had him loaded in the ambulance. There was a Dr with the ambulance crew that told us his leg was broken. The coach came over, with the game still going on, to talk to us. He said he saw the whole thing and was pretty shook. He was hoping Tim would be OK for baseball season, which was 6 months away.
From the time he went down with the injury, until we got to the hospital, I prayed.
When he got to the hospital they gave him morphine and took him right in to get XRays. When he got back to the room, I looked at his leg, and it didnt look too bad. Perhaps a little swolen.
Anyways, the Dr came in with the Xrays and told us there was no break. I asked him if he could have a radiologist check, because 5 people and my son himself told me they saw his leg bent at 90 degrees in a place where that waw not possible. He said that wasnt necessary, and sent him home. The next day I took him to the local sports medicine location, which is open on the weekend for sports injuries. They couldnt find a break either and said maybe it was sprained.
He wasnt in much pain, and by Wedesday was back at football practice. He played in the next game, and the rest of the year.
Is there a reasonable explanation for this? We give credit to our God. Is that foolish? Were all the people who saw his injury up close, including a Dr, wrong or does he have magic bones?
At the end of the year football banquet, the coach gave him a special award for "toughness", because in his words he was just hoping Tim would be able to walk again after seeing his injury, much less play in the next game.
Because you didn't understand how or why something happened is not evidence of an intervention by a God.
True. But do you have an alternate explanation?
More people have probably been killed in the name of religion than any other cause.
No way. Territory, natural resources, and wealth is what really gets people killed en masse.
Yeah. They have to stretch "religion" to tuck in Hitler, Stalin & Mao, which just doesn't fly imho.
Hitler didn't commit genocide on 6M jews because of their religion?
that's a stretch to say that?
1. Hitler did not do that on behalf of a religion.
2. He also was responsible for the deaths of anywhere from 40 to 60 million gentiles/athiests. Besides his anti-Semitism, it was also a war of expansion. Territory. And Stalin and Mao are good for another 40 or 50 million.
Hitler exterminated the jews because of their religion, not necessarily on behalf of one, I don't think when the statement was made that more people have been killed in the name of religion it wasn't made in either context.
look up the definition of genocide and then try and argue that the 6M jews killed during the holocaust weren't because of religion.
I believe the statement WAS made in that context. But even assuming, arguendo, that that was the case, 6 million killed for religious reasons vs. the other 90-100 million killed by those 3 does not make religion responsible for more deaths than any other cause.
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In comment 13553989 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
BS, mind over matter?
You can call BS on me if you want, but this legit happened 2 years ago:
My son, then a senior in high school, was playing football. There was a few minutes left in the game and his team was running out the clock. He was the trusted RB for this type of situation.
Anyways, he went down with a leg injury, an obvious clean break jusy above the ankle. Two kids on his team threw up on the field, one ran for the ambulance, one - who's Mom was a Dr ran to the crowd and yelled to his Mom - "Mom, its Tim! His leg is snapped! Its disgusting!"
By the time my wife and I got to the sideline, they had him loaded in the ambulance. There was a Dr with the ambulance crew that told us his leg was broken. The coach came over, with the game still going on, to talk to us. He said he saw the whole thing and was pretty shook. He was hoping Tim would be OK for baseball season, which was 6 months away.
From the time he went down with the injury, until we got to the hospital, I prayed.
When he got to the hospital they gave him morphine and took him right in to get XRays. When he got back to the room, I looked at his leg, and it didnt look too bad. Perhaps a little swolen.
Anyways, the Dr came in with the Xrays and told us there was no break. I asked him if he could have a radiologist check, because 5 people and my son himself told me they saw his leg bent at 90 degrees in a place where that waw not possible. He said that wasnt necessary, and sent him home. The next day I took him to the local sports medicine location, which is open on the weekend for sports injuries. They couldnt find a break either and said maybe it was sprained.
He wasnt in much pain, and by Wedesday was back at football practice. He played in the next game, and the rest of the year.
Is there a reasonable explanation for this? We give credit to our God. Is that foolish? Were all the people who saw his injury up close, including a Dr, wrong or does he have magic bones?
At the end of the year football banquet, the coach gave him a special award for "toughness", because in his words he was just hoping Tim would be able to walk again after seeing his injury, much less play in the next game.
Because you didn't understand how or why something happened is not evidence of an intervention by a God.
True. But do you have an alternate explanation?
He had a bad sprain and everyone at the field, relying on their eyes, overreacted. Sterling Shepard had a bad sprain earlier this week and there was concern he might be out for a long time. He practiced today. Did God heal him too?
You can call BS on me if you want, but this legit happened 2 years ago:
My son, then a senior in high school, was playing football. There was a few minutes left in the game and his team was running out the clock. He was the trusted RB for this type of situation.
Anyways, he went down with a leg injury, an obvious clean break jusy above the ankle. Two kids on his team threw up on the field, one ran for the ambulance, one - who's Mom was a Dr ran to the crowd and yelled to his Mom - "Mom, its Tim! His leg is snapped! Its disgusting!"
By the time my wife and I got to the sideline, they had him loaded in the ambulance. There was a Dr with the ambulance crew that told us his leg was broken. The coach came over, with the game still going on, to talk to us. He said he saw the whole thing and was pretty shook. He was hoping Tim would be OK for baseball season, which was 6 months away.
From the time he went down with the injury, until we got to the hospital, I prayed.
When he got to the hospital they gave him morphine and took him right in to get XRays. When he got back to the room, I looked at his leg, and it didnt look too bad. Perhaps a little swolen.
Anyways, the Dr came in with the Xrays and told us there was no break. I asked him if he could have a radiologist check, because 5 people and my son himself told me they saw his leg bent at 90 degrees in a place where that waw not possible. He said that wasnt necessary, and sent him home. The next day I took him to the local sports medicine location, which is open on the weekend for sports injuries. They couldnt find a break either and said maybe it was sprained.
He wasnt in much pain, and by Wedesday was back at football practice. He played in the next game, and the rest of the year.
Is there a reasonable explanation for this? We give credit to our God. Is that foolish? Were all the people who saw his injury up close, including a Dr, wrong or does he have magic bones?
At the end of the year football banquet, the coach gave him a special award for "toughness", because in his words he was just hoping Tim would be able to walk again after seeing his injury, much less play in the next game.
No matter what i say it's going to sound douchy and I don't mean it that way.
If giving credit to god for healing your son's seemingly broken leg, then I'm happy for your comfort.
By guess would be not god or your prayers, but more likely a medical or scientific explanation, like the leg wasn't broken and the teammates and coach and ambulance driver overreacted (pure guess on my part) or simply were wrong.
But I don't dissuade you at all from believing what you feel in your heart happened.
in the grand scheme of things with all the tragedies that continually go on day in day out murders, rapes, starvation, death, cancer, kidnaps, torture, homelessness, etc. to believe that god would spend time to simply unbreak a broken leg in a teenager that really had no significant consequence other than to your son's next football game and maybe his baseball season really seems kind of trivial though, doesn't it?
Quote:
Quote:
More people have probably been killed in the name of religion than any other cause.
No way. Territory, natural resources, and wealth is what really gets people killed en masse.
Yeah. They have to stretch "religion" to tuck in Hitler, Stalin & Mao, which just doesn't fly imho.
Hitler didn't commit genocide on 6M jews because of their religion?
that's a stretch to say that?
1. Hitler did not do that on behalf of a religion.
2. He also was responsible for the deaths of anywhere from 40 to 60 million gentiles/athiests. Besides his anti-Semitism, it was also a war of expansion. Territory. And Stalin and Mao are good for another 40 or 50 million.
Hitler exterminated the jews because of their religion, not necessarily on behalf of one, I don't think when the statement was made that more people have been killed in the name of religion it wasn't made in either context.
look up the definition of genocide and then try and argue that the 6M jews killed during the holocaust weren't because of religion.
I believe the statement WAS made in that context. But even assuming, arguendo, that that was the case, 6 million killed for religious reasons vs. the other 90-100 million killed by those 3 does not make religion responsible for more deaths than any other cause.
No argument there, simply saying with Hitler IMO you don't need to stretch anything to say he killed people because of their religion, i.e., religion was the underlying reasons for 6M deaths on Hitler's watch.
The issue is when organized religion interferes adversely not only with the lives of private individuals but in the government.
I'm going off on a tangent but let's not pretend that the clergy and the institution itself is not a money-making industry selling an invisible product. The irony of course is that the so-called "founders" and key figures of many of these religions preached living in a simple, modest way and that money was the root of all evil. But many religions have become bastardized over time. Hell, we're still in an era of selling indulgences.
Why did primitive people have rain gods, sun gods, etc? why did mythology take hold? All because of unexplained events.
I have no clue about healing, except to note that the preacher at Morningstar ministries (Rick Joyner) has sold his congregation on the fact that the power of prayer can regrow limbs. So thinking a leg isn't really broken because of the belief it was, especially when it is somebody as close as a family member really doesn't shock me that it has to be only due to divine intervention, and a good divinity too.
Nobody takes the slant that the Devil did it so your Son will be a better worker in Hell - because well, that's a different can of worms.
Quote:
BS, mind over matter?
You can call BS on me if you want, but this legit happened 2 years ago:
My son, then a senior in high school, was playing football. There was a few minutes left in the game and his team was running out the clock. He was the trusted RB for this type of situation.
Anyways, he went down with a leg injury, an obvious clean break jusy above the ankle. Two kids on his team threw up on the field, one ran for the ambulance, one - who's Mom was a Dr ran to the crowd and yelled to his Mom - "Mom, its Tim! His leg is snapped! Its disgusting!"
By the time my wife and I got to the sideline, they had him loaded in the ambulance. There was a Dr with the ambulance crew that told us his leg was broken. The coach came over, with the game still going on, to talk to us. He said he saw the whole thing and was pretty shook. He was hoping Tim would be OK for baseball season, which was 6 months away.
From the time he went down with the injury, until we got to the hospital, I prayed.
When he got to the hospital they gave him morphine and took him right in to get XRays. When he got back to the room, I looked at his leg, and it didnt look too bad. Perhaps a little swolen.
Anyways, the Dr came in with the Xrays and told us there was no break. I asked him if he could have a radiologist check, because 5 people and my son himself told me they saw his leg bent at 90 degrees in a place where that waw not possible. He said that wasnt necessary, and sent him home. The next day I took him to the local sports medicine location, which is open on the weekend for sports injuries. They couldnt find a break either and said maybe it was sprained.
He wasnt in much pain, and by Wedesday was back at football practice. He played in the next game, and the rest of the year.
Is there a reasonable explanation for this? We give credit to our God. Is that foolish? Were all the people who saw his injury up close, including a Dr, wrong or does he have magic bones?
At the end of the year football banquet, the coach gave him a special award for "toughness", because in his words he was just hoping Tim would be able to walk again after seeing his injury, much less play in the next game.
No matter what i say it's going to sound douchy and I don't mean it that way.
If giving credit to god for healing your son's seemingly broken leg, then I'm happy for your comfort.
By guess would be not god or your prayers, but more likely a medical or scientific explanation, like the leg wasn't broken and the teammates and coach and ambulance driver overreacted (pure guess on my part) or simply were wrong.
But I don't dissuade you at all from believing what you feel in your heart happened.
in the grand scheme of things with all the tragedies that continually go on day in day out murders, rapes, starvation, death, cancer, kidnaps, torture, homelessness, etc. to believe that god would spend time to simply unbreak a broken leg in a teenager that really had no significant consequence other than to your son's next football game and maybe his baseball season really seems kind of trivial though, doesn't it?
Look, we live in an evil world and bad shit happens everywhere.
I believe in God that allows all of us to have free will. You want to not belive, thats cool. No skin off my knee.
Im just relaying a personal experience.
So the God that heals a broken leg let's bad shit go on elsewhere and frequently?
I hear about having "free will" a lot. So does God intervene (sort of negating free will) or does he not? Does God have some formula on what bad shit to let happen and what to clamp down on?
This is the reason I find things to be very hypocritical Perhaps that is a poor word. Illogcial is a better one.
You believe god cured your son's broken leg in miraculous fashion. and I'm not discouraging that belief one bit.
I do not believe that is what happened so we can agree to disagree.
Quote:
In comment 13553991 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 13553989 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
BS, mind over matter?
You can call BS on me if you want, but this legit happened 2 years ago:
My son, then a senior in high school, was playing football. There was a few minutes left in the game and his team was running out the clock. He was the trusted RB for this type of situation.
Anyways, he went down with a leg injury, an obvious clean break jusy above the ankle. Two kids on his team threw up on the field, one ran for the ambulance, one - who's Mom was a Dr ran to the crowd and yelled to his Mom - "Mom, its Tim! His leg is snapped! Its disgusting!"
By the time my wife and I got to the sideline, they had him loaded in the ambulance. There was a Dr with the ambulance crew that told us his leg was broken. The coach came over, with the game still going on, to talk to us. He said he saw the whole thing and was pretty shook. He was hoping Tim would be OK for baseball season, which was 6 months away.
From the time he went down with the injury, until we got to the hospital, I prayed.
When he got to the hospital they gave him morphine and took him right in to get XRays. When he got back to the room, I looked at his leg, and it didnt look too bad. Perhaps a little swolen.
Anyways, the Dr came in with the Xrays and told us there was no break. I asked him if he could have a radiologist check, because 5 people and my son himself told me they saw his leg bent at 90 degrees in a place where that waw not possible. He said that wasnt necessary, and sent him home. The next day I took him to the local sports medicine location, which is open on the weekend for sports injuries. They couldnt find a break either and said maybe it was sprained.
He wasnt in much pain, and by Wedesday was back at football practice. He played in the next game, and the rest of the year.
Is there a reasonable explanation for this? We give credit to our God. Is that foolish? Were all the people who saw his injury up close, including a Dr, wrong or does he have magic bones?
At the end of the year football banquet, the coach gave him a special award for "toughness", because in his words he was just hoping Tim would be able to walk again after seeing his injury, much less play in the next game.
Because you didn't understand how or why something happened is not evidence of an intervention by a God.
True. But do you have an alternate explanation?
He had a bad sprain and everyone at the field, relying on their eyes, overreacted. Sterling Shepard had a bad sprain earlier this week and there was concern he might be out for a long time. He practiced today. Did God heal him too?
Based on his Instagram post the next day I'm going with yes, but honestly I haven't asked him.
You believe god cured your son's broken leg in miraculous fashion. and I'm not discouraging that belief one bit.
I do not believe that is what happened so we can agree to disagree.
Not offended at all. I have no problem with anyone choosing to believe or not believe what they want.
No idea. Does it really matter? I could care less. If his leg remained broken and he needed surgery would that have changed my beliefs? No.
Like I said bad shit happens everywhere.
LOL
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No idea. Does it really matter? I could care less. If his leg remained broken and he needed surgery would that have changed my beliefs? No.
Like I said bad shit happens everywhere.
Exactly, you are solid in your beliefs. That's totally cool with me. It's just then that I'd like to offer the viewpoint that your story is not evidence of God at all but rather a way that you found affirmation of your beliefs. So, I'm happy the kid's ankle was ok and that your beliefs were affirmed but the story is not evidence of anything. If you had x rays that that were broken and then xrays the next day that were healed, well now you're onto something but that literally never happens.
Isn't that the same as going to confession?
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In comment 13554042 Heisenberg said:
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No idea. Does it really matter? I could care less. If his leg remained broken and he needed surgery would that have changed my beliefs? No.
Like I said bad shit happens everywhere.
Exactly, you are solid in your beliefs. That's totally cool with me. It's just then that I'd like to offer the viewpoint that your story is not evidence of God at all but rather a way that you found affirmation of your beliefs. So, I'm happy the kid's ankle was ok and that your beliefs were affirmed but the story is not evidence of anything. If you had x rays that that were broken and then xrays the next day that were healed, well now you're onto something but that literally never happens.
Just curious... How can you be certain that it literally never happens?
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In comment 13554062 Eli Wilson said:
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In comment 13554042 Heisenberg said:
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No idea. Does it really matter? I could care less. If his leg remained broken and he needed surgery would that have changed my beliefs? No.
Like I said bad shit happens everywhere.
Exactly, you are solid in your beliefs. That's totally cool with me. It's just then that I'd like to offer the viewpoint that your story is not evidence of God at all but rather a way that you found affirmation of your beliefs. So, I'm happy the kid's ankle was ok and that your beliefs were affirmed but the story is not evidence of anything. If you had x rays that that were broken and then xrays the next day that were healed, well now you're onto something but that literally never happens.
Just curious... How can you be certain that it literally never happens?
Well, as that would bring into question everything we have learned in the past couple thousand years about bones, healing and the human body, I'd suspect it would be a big deal.
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Look, we live in an evil world and bad shit happens everywhere.
So the God that heals a broken leg let's bad shit go on elsewhere and frequently?
I hear about having "free will" a lot. So does God intervene (sort of negating free will) or does he not? Does God have some formula on what bad shit to let happen and what to clamp down on?
This is the reason I find things to be very hypocritical Perhaps that is a poor word. Illogcial is a better one.
FMIC Believing in something you can't see which has great power to do all things, knows all is illogical. Faith never rests or has rested on logic. I can't fully explain why after nearly thirty years of not seeking a relationship with God or even knowing if I believed in God to then seek God out in a faith (faith) I wasn't crazy about to begin with. I suppose I could have some mental defect or lack vision, but if it were that simple I would have just stayed put in my old ways.
As for free will, I can't pretend to explain something I don't truly understand, but I have leaned to trust God and I'll leave it at that