Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

I'm having trouble trying to gauge this year's edition...

grizz299 : 8/11/2017 4:21 am
Last year, on another blogging site, it seemed clear to me that the defense was going to be superb, but most bloggers seemed oblivious to the injection of talent. It turned out to be better than I thought because I didn't account for the strides Collins would make or the surprising ability of Jenkins.
I keep on inventing standards or measuring means and turn them sidewise or upside down or use any of a different set of parameters and it seems inescapable: this is not just a good team, this might be a team for the ages - (with an emphasis on the word "might").
If I do it by quality players and use some arbitrary standards...we have at least three of the best in the game in Harrison, Collins, and OBJ. That's extraordinary, and while LT, Banks and Bavaro might be marginally better, I don't think we could find any other group going back to the fifties to match that cornocopia of talent.
But it's the next group that really makes the point, because they are right there: Cromartie, Jenkins, Vernon, JPP, Marshall, these are superb players who, if they are not all pros, are more than simply "pro bowl" good. My strong suspicion is that Eli Apple is going to included in that group of dominant players before the year is done.
That's 10 (not counting Apple) extraordinary players from our 22 starters.
Solid NFL starters (only more so)???.. Eli, Shepard, D.Thompson (or Adams who was rated fourth best in the league and won't get to start this year), Pugh, Richenberg, and the much underrated Ellison. that's six more bringing out total to 16. Crazy, because only D. Thompson can be argued with, but the way they've handed him the job over Adams, Pickens and some other worthies puts him in that category.
That 16 compares favourably with a similar number from any Giant team I've ever seen. And, while you can't put him in that group yet, I think Evan Enphram will be counted here by years end.
Do it by unit and I conclude that this is the best secondary we've ever seen (and while I missed Em Tunnel, I saw Barnes, Nolan, Lynch and Patton), and arguably the best in the game right now.
I think OBJ and anyone is a great receiving corp; but OBJ, Marshall, Shepard, Evan and Ellison is (see above) silly good and the best the Giants have ever had - and second isn't close. I think this corp can potentially be classically good and rate with the best of all time. Strong words, but if you try to find a group with that greatness at the bottom I simply can't recall it.
There are remarkably few players that I'd throw Kudos at simply based on a pre-season, but Evan E is one of them. The kid is seamless, huge for a WR, faster than OBJ, Makes adjustments to the ball, there's no such thing as can't miss not named LT, but this kid is close.
Just run over the names again...staggering.
Add in the very explosive and smart Vereen out of the backfield and the abundance of riches is almost numbing. It's like saying a computor is binary and plays chess just based on a series of 1 or 0. My mind can't get around it.
As a pair Vernon and JPP might be the best in the game. Harrison is the best and I think the fourth spot is going to find someone capable. Only that fourth spot stops (at this time) this bunch from being mentioned with some of the best of all time. That may sound like an overstatement but see if you can find 3 starters on a front four who are much better (Deacon, Olson, Brown, Lundy excepted).
We could start another sidebar on Eli, all I'll say is, come playoff time there isn't anyone I'd rather have and I've seen two statistical breakdowns that support that and perhaps show their validity when they have Montana as no.2. All the folks who nitpick his game don't get it. Knocking Eli is a little like saying Celine Deon can't be beautiful because she's not pretty. When she sings, the lady is beautiful. Put the dough on the table and ......!!!
The underrated unit is the linebacking crew. BAnks, LT, Carson they are not, but for all the complaints here this can be a talented and versatile unit. Cassilas is compentent and then some, Goodson stoned people last year (I mean they stopped in their tracks or went backwards on the way down), Kennard is just opening a bucket full of talent and Robinson is a superb athlete, capable of staying wiht most tight ends.
Realistically, the offensive line should be better. We've all heard about the work that Hart and Flowers did, that has to pay off when you'e 22. Second year with the same line coach, and now they're saying Ellison is as good a blocker as there is. Jerry, at 31, seems to surprisingly getting better, Fluker and Jones provide superb back up. Pugh's fragility is a continuing concern and if there's an Achilles heel it's here, but I think at years end they'll be the surprise.
Our great LT, Banks, Bavaro teams, had a less than ordinary defensive backfield with Elvis Toast Patterson and a few modest starters. And that WR corp was competent at best or below average at worst. Maybe the sheer brilliance of LT influences any comparison, but this team has many more superb players throughout.
Lots here for the nitpicking BBI contrarians to find fault with, but overall, it's hard to avoid being optimistic. Eli may suddenly get old, there might be a string of debilitating injuries and Mac might be a man who can't let go of the clipboard; but, generally speaking, this is a team of potential superstars.
I, for one, think it's going to happen, that this team will dominate from start to finish and we're in for a treat.



It's all about staying relatively healthy  
Milton : 8/11/2017 4:45 am : link
The talent is the best in the NFC. Only the Patriots rival them.
Very difficult to utilize weapons  
joeinpa : 8/11/2017 6:28 am : link
With a poor offensive line. Are we confident that unit is better.
Assuming our O-Line...  
M.S. : 8/11/2017 6:50 am : link

...just plays "middle-of-the-pack" football (whatever that means), I think this team can do a lot of damage this year.

I'll go one step further.

Given the overall talent of this team; and given the mind-set of their head coach, I just gotta feeling that there will be games this year in which they slaughter opponents.
And it may get to a point in the season when upcoming opponents are not too keen about facing this Giants team.


Joe in Pa. the eye test does not lie  
MasherJints : 8/11/2017 6:51 am : link
What you better hope is that the natural evolution of progress and development doesn't hold true. If the OL solidifies into a cohesive unit as being witnessed, the rest of the NFL is SOL. Your Eagles while an ascending team is no match against the boys north of you. You are young and improved but the NY Giants D is the difference and they are mostly signed for the next 4 years.
The enter button is your friend  
robbieballs2003 : 8/11/2017 6:57 am : link
.
Nice write-up, grizz  
aquidneck : 8/11/2017 7:17 am : link
But I don't think you're giving the '86 team enough credit.

Without looking it up, so that eras teams may have run together a bit for me, but my recollection of the '86 team was that it was excellent and deep on the OL, at RB, TE, DL and LB. Also excelled on ST.

They may have had pedestrian talent at WR and DB as you mentioned, but their talent was at the top of the league in many ways, and certainly on a relative basis compares to this year's edition.
RE: Nice write-up, grizz  
Sec 103 : 8/11/2017 7:27 am : link
In comment 13555687 aquidneck said:
Quote:
But I don't think you're giving the '86 team enough credit.

Without looking it up, so that eras teams may have run together a bit for me, but my recollection of the '86 team was that it was excellent and deep on the OL, at RB, TE, DL and LB. Also excelled on ST.

They may have had pedestrian talent at WR and DB as you mentioned, but their talent was at the top of the league in many ways, and certainly on a relative basis compares to this year's edition.

+1
On paper, they're as good as anyone imv.  
Big Blue '56 : 8/11/2017 8:10 am : link
Beyond that, we won't get to know for real until 4-5 games have been played
It's all on the shoulders of one man  
Still a Sam Huff fan : 8/11/2017 9:50 am : link
If Mr. Solari, who I believe is more qualified to evaluate OL talent than all of us on BBI, did his job this off season, we will be fine. He knows what we have. If he feels it is good enough, then I will trust him. If not, he would have / should have made changes. He didn't.
Re: "I'm having trouble trying to gauge this year's edition"  
Marty in Albany : 8/11/2017 10:06 am : link
You and everybody else.

IMHO the best that anyone can do is tick off reasons to be hopeful and reasons to worry. Then, be glad if the first list is bigger than the second.
The OL worries me.  
Optimus-NY : 8/11/2017 10:26 am : link
Particularly the right side. I think JJ at RG is steady at pass protection, but horrid at run blocking. Now the kid at RT seems to be improving, but he's no Kareem McKenzie.

At C, Richburg needs to stay healthy, and at LG, Pgh also needs to avoid getting hurt (e.g., concussions). We all know the issue at LT regarding Flowers. If Flowers can get up to the middle of the pack with his overall performance, then things will be OK. I wish they injected more talent at Guard or Tackle this off-season. At least the blocking from the TEs (e.g., Ellison and Adams) and WR (e.g., Marshall) will be better. Let's hope for the best...I don't want to see a re-run of 2003 with Tam Hopkins. Ugh...
Stay healthy and if good Eli shows up the Giants should do well.  
SterlingArcher : 8/11/2017 12:31 pm : link
I predict 6 - 2 at home and 5 - 3 on the road and division winner.
Ah, Richenberg and Enphram  
Gatorade Dunk : 8/11/2017 12:54 pm : link
What a great blogger.
I'm so sorry  
grizz299 : 8/11/2017 2:08 pm : link
it was four AM I didn't have time to edit.
I meant the center and the no. 1 draft pick who plays TE and was drafted from Missisippi.
I'm sure you couldn't have figured that out on your own and I suspect you can find commas that are wrong too. Matter of fact, I"m surprised you didn't pore over the long post and find some more mistakes.
So a double apology is in order.
Though to tell you the truth, I always feel sorry for guys like you. Desperate people, leading sad lives and looking to make issues out of irrelevancies in a futile attempt to feel better about themselves.
Bet you a million dollars, that on your best day you couldn't write a cogent, informative thread. Nitpickers like you are usually incompetents.

.  
arcarsenal : 8/11/2017 2:12 pm : link
Formatting... please learn it.
Nice effort  
Bluesbreaker : 8/11/2017 3:59 pm : link
If not for the Bears defense we may have gone back to back
My excitement begins with the O-line and the health of this team . Nearing the end of the Eli Manning career I
wonder if we could have done better for him and how much
more does he have left ? He has a ton of miles on that arm
at some point in time when he can't make those deep out
throws or God forbid injury . I guess we will get a glimpse
of Webb and hope he is the real deal because we could have
used that pick for this season .
RE: It's all on the shoulders of one man  
Boy Cord : 8/11/2017 6:12 pm : link
In comment 13555854 Still a Sam Huff fan said:
Quote:
If Mr. Solari, who I believe is more qualified to evaluate OL talent than all of us on BBI, did his job this off season, we will be fine. He knows what we have. If he feels it is good enough, then I will trust him. If not, he would have / should have made changes. He didn't.


When did Mr. Solari become Junior GM?
Still a Huff fan  
Marty866b : 8/11/2017 6:52 pm : link
You know I am with you about the 0-line. See you down here soon.
RE: I'm so sorry  
Gatorade Dunk : 8/12/2017 6:49 am : link
In comment 13556398 grizz299 said:
Quote:
it was four AM I didn't have time to edit.
I meant the center and the no. 1 draft pick who plays TE and was drafted from Missisippi.
I'm sure you couldn't have figured that out on your own and I suspect you can find commas that are wrong too. Matter of fact, I"m surprised you didn't pore over the long post and find some more mistakes.
So a double apology is in order.
Though to tell you the truth, I always feel sorry for guys like you. Desperate people, leading sad lives and looking to make issues out of irrelevancies in a futile attempt to feel better about themselves.
Bet you a million dollars, that on your best day you couldn't write a cogent, informative thread. Nitpickers like you are usually incompetents.

Didn't have time to edit? Ok, if you say so. It's not like you've had a history of getting names wrong repeatedly (including those two in particular). For the record, it's Richburg and Engram.

And thank you for feeling sorry for me. I was truly hoping to gain the empathy of a person who can't figure out how line breaks and paragraphs work. It's all just been a cry for help - you figured it out. I used your giant, unformatted block of self-aggrandizing text as the platform for which I could finally make my plea. Or maybe - just throwing it out there - it's that I actually take the time to learn the names of the players on the team, and maybe - again, just spitballing here - I have enough respect for my fellow posters here to format my posts in a way that allows them to be legible.

Get over yourself.
"Nitpickers are usually incompetent"?  
UConn4523 : 8/12/2017 6:56 am : link
haha, yeah that's it.

I took 1 look at your giant mess of a post and decided to skip it. Based on the reactions I'm glad I did. You often comment on your moral superiority yet you end you last post with that gem of statement. Why would anyone take you seriously.
Your original posts have the makings of  
Jimmy Googs : 8/12/2017 8:24 am : link
a serial killer...
TL;DR  
Diver_Down : 8/12/2017 9:38 am : link
Back to the Corner