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Holy ... Bills trade Watkins to Rams & get Mathews from PHI

Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 8/11/2017 12:52 pm
Buffalo Bills & #8207;Verified account @buffalobills 3m3 minutes ago

We've acquired CB E.J. Gaines and a 2018 2nd round pick from the Rams for WR Sammy Watkins and a 2018 6th round pick.

We've acquired WR Jordan Matthews and a 2018 3rd round pick from the Eagles for CB Ronald Darby.
Link - ( New Window )
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RE: A friend who is a huge Eagles' fan  
jeff57 : 8/11/2017 1:31 pm : link
In comment 13556318 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Keeps saying that it looks like Agholor has turned the corner, and is poised to be the slot receiver. If that's the case, Matthews was very expendable.

Dropped a two point conversion last night.
Oh yeah and Darby is only 23 with two  
figgy2989 : 8/11/2017 1:33 pm : link
Years already under his belt.

I really do hate that the Bills sent him the Philly.
I really..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/11/2017 1:35 pm : link
hope this was a joke.

Quote:
what a bust so far
jnoble : 1:30 pm : link : reply
all Sammy Watkins does is get hurt and miss games


Watkins first two years he missed 3 games and scored 15 TD's.

That's being a bust? In what fucking universe?
Interesting stuff  
kash94 : 8/11/2017 1:37 pm : link
Good trade for the Bills IMO. Watkins is super injury prone and is a FA after the year I think. Darby is pretty good but they also get a replacement CB, Mathews (underrated guy IMO), and two picks. They won't compete in the AFC East with the Pats until Brady retires so why not build for beyond that.

Not a bad trade for the Eagles. Mathews and a 3rd rounder is definitely a decent bit to give up, but they are trading from a position of strength and Mathews is a FA after the year. If Darby is decent and they resign Jeffrey, could be a good move in the long run.

Weird trade for the Rams. They have a lack of draft picks as-is with the Goff deal and trade a high pick for an injury prone guy who's a FA after the year.
Watkins busted  
averagejoe : 8/11/2017 1:38 pm : link
Another can't miss that missed. Not a huge return for former number one overall pick.

Not afraid of Philly.

Not afraid of Dallas.

Not afraid of Washington.

My only fear is still that the OL will get Eli killed before he has a chance to play with his new toys.
RE: Interesting stuff  
kash94 : 8/11/2017 1:38 pm : link
In comment 13556327 kash94 said:
Quote:
Good trade for the Bills IMO. Watkins is super injury prone and is a FA after the year I think. Darby is pretty good but they also get a replacement CB, Mathews (underrated guy IMO), and two picks. They won't compete in the AFC East with the Pats until Brady retires so why not build for beyond that.

Not a bad trade for the Eagles. Mathews and a 3rd rounder is definitely a decent bit to give up, but they are trading from a position of strength and Mathews is a FA after the year. If Darby is decent and they resign Jeffrey, could be a good move in the long run.

Weird trade for the Rams. They have a lack of draft picks as-is with the Goff deal and trade a high pick for an injury prone guy who's a FA after the year.


Ah - didn't realize Watkins played 29 games his first two years. Just used to seeing his name on the injury list a lot!
If you think..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/11/2017 1:39 pm : link
Watkins is a bust, you really have a poor grasp of that word
RE: Watkins busted  
YAJ2112 : 8/11/2017 1:40 pm : link
In comment 13556330 averagejoe said:
Quote:
Another can't miss that missed. Not a huge return for former number one overall pick.

Not afraid of Philly.

Not afraid of Dallas.

Not afraid of Washington.

My only fear is still that the OL will get Eli killed before he has a chance to play with his new toys.


Watkins was not the number one overall pick
RE: I really..  
crick n NC : 8/11/2017 1:41 pm : link
In comment 13556324 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
hope this was a joke.



Quote:


what a bust so far
jnoble : 1:30 pm : link : reply
all Sammy Watkins does is get hurt and miss games



Watkins first two years he missed 3 games and scored 15 TD's.

That's being a bust? In what fucking universe?


I think the perception of Watkins is he is banged up a lot. Maybe he's not, but without looking it up, I think of him as banged up. I think that is what jnoble meant
I understand..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/11/2017 1:44 pm : link
what he meant - and it is damn wrong.

If the perception is Watkins is a bust, then shouldn't the onus be on the people who think that to get a fucking clue?

I won't even get into the discussion that it is really hard to label injured players busts, but one thing Watkins has shown is that when he plays, he's damn good, even while he's had below average QB's throwing the ball.
Too short of a track record  
Giantfan in skinland : 8/11/2017 1:45 pm : link
to call him always banged up.

He's played 16, 13, and 8 games.

He's had trouble since the end of 2015. I guess the question is whether the Bills know something about his foot that the public doesn't. Keep in mind, they didn't just realize they wouldn't be able to re-sign him. They declined a team option for a 5th year this offseason as well. So they REALLY didn't want him back.
Watkins is not what I'd call a bust  
pjcas18 : 8/11/2017 1:46 pm : link
but reality is he has been injured and it's impacted his on-field results.

Jordan Matthews has outperformed Sammy Watkins in their 3 years in the league in receptions, yards and TD's. Matthews has played 9 more games though and that's the point.

Watkins is far more talented than Matthews, and I think the Bills were probably going to struggle on offense anyway, I don't think they'll be noticeably worse with Matthews than Watkins and then re-signing either is debateable.

Good move for Buffalo.
whats the Matthews contract?  
rasbutant : 8/11/2017 1:47 pm : link
How much dead money for Eagles?
How many years left, at what cost to Bills?
RE: Watkins busted  
santacruzom : 8/11/2017 1:52 pm : link
In comment 13556330 averagejoe said:
Quote:
Another can't miss that missed. Not a huge return for former number one overall pick.


He wasn't a number 1 overall pick. You can argue that the return hasn't been as good as it should have been for a number 4 pick though, sure, but that's been due to injuries and not a poor evaluation of his talent.
Darby can play.  
area junc : 8/11/2017 1:54 pm : link
The Eagles always seem to make out in these deals.
RE: RE: I really..  
jnoble : 8/11/2017 1:54 pm : link
In comment 13556338 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 13556324 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


hope this was a joke.



Quote:


what a bust so far
jnoble : 1:30 pm : link : reply
all Sammy Watkins does is get hurt and miss games



Watkins first two years he missed 3 games and scored 15 TD's.

That's being a bust? In what fucking universe?



I think the perception of Watkins is he is banged up a lot. Maybe he's not, but without looking it up, I think of him as banged up. I think that is what jnoble meant


This. I don't pay much attention to the Bills but most of what I've heard concerning Watkins is whatever his latest injury or ailment is. If I didn't know any better (which I apparently don't) it seems like he's hardly gotten on the field at all in 3 seasons lol
with the Rams getting Watkins...  
Mike in St. Louis : 8/11/2017 1:55 pm : link
I can guarantee you he will miss at least half the season with injuries...
RE: whats the Matthews contract?  
BillT : 8/11/2017 1:56 pm : link
In comment 13556355 rasbutant said:
Quote:
How much dead money for Eagles?
How many years left, at what cost to Bills?

Mathews is on his rookie 2nd round contract. Couldn't be much.
RE: RE: Watkins busted  
Mr. Bungle : 8/11/2017 1:56 pm : link
In comment 13556368 santacruzom said:
Quote:
In comment 13556330 averagejoe said:


Quote:


Another can't miss that missed. Not a huge return for former number one overall pick.



He wasn't a number 1 overall pick. You can argue that the return hasn't been as good as it should have been for a number 4 pick though, sure, but that's been due to injuries and not a poor evaluation of his talent.

The Bills traded a boatload to move up to #4 overall.
RE: I understand..  
crick n NC : 8/11/2017 2:00 pm : link
In comment 13556343 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
what he meant - and it is damn wrong.

If the perception is Watkins is a bust, then shouldn't the onus be on the people who think that to get a fucking clue?

I won't even get into the discussion that it is really hard to label injured players busts, but one thing Watkins has shown is that when he plays, he's damn good, even while he's had below average QB's throwing the ball.


Bust is subjective, right? Unless bust strictly means the inability to play in the league due to "being out of your league". I guess maybe you call a player selected high that hasn't played up to expectations due to injury a disappointment or unfortunate
'Bust status'  
RobCarpenter : 8/11/2017 2:02 pm : link
Probably has to do with the other WRs picked after Watkins, Evans and OBJ, who have much better stats..

Poor Buffalo -- should have picked Mack, who literally was playing in their back yard.
Any one in that division  
Rflairr : 8/11/2017 2:05 pm : link
Ever going to beat the Pats?
FMIC  
crick n NC : 8/11/2017 2:07 pm : link
I said the perception of Watkins may be that he is BANGED UP, not that he is a bust. Jnoble was referring to Watkins health as him being a bust, I know you don't agree with that.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/11/2017 2:07 pm : link
I have to say... I'm not so sure the Pats dynasty is going to go right down the tubes when Brady is gone. I think Garoppalo can really play. He has a nice quick release, good arm strength, and he moves well in the pocket. I think NE has something there and I would bet that as long as Bill is still on the sideline, they'll still be able to win quite a few games with JG under center.
Watkins  
ryanmkeane : 8/11/2017 2:08 pm : link
is absolutely not a bust. Dominated in the second half of 2015 and was just injured all year last season. When healthy he's very good.
Agree the trades are about saving cash  
JonC : 8/11/2017 2:12 pm : link
and stockpiling draft picks for a much stronger crop in 2018, by many accounts. WRs and CBs cost a ton via UFA, Bills are streamlining.
RE: .  
Mr. Bungle : 8/11/2017 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13556395 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I have to say... I'm not so sure the Pats dynasty is going to go right down the tubes when Brady is gone. I think Garoppalo can really play. He has a nice quick release, good arm strength, and he moves well in the pocket. I think NE has something there and I would bet that as long as Bill is still on the sideline, they'll still be able to win quite a few games with JG under center.

Considering that the Patriots went 11-5 without Brady in 2008 and 3-1 without him last year, there's little doubt that the Patriots are contenders as long as Belichick is the head coach.
RE: Watkins  
est1986 : 8/11/2017 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13556397 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
is absolutely not a bust. Dominated in the second half of 2015 and was just injured all year last season. When healthy he's very good.


But if never healthy... he is a bust.
RE: RE: Watkins  
crick n NC : 8/11/2017 2:25 pm : link
In comment 13556416 est1986 said:
Quote:
In comment 13556397 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


is absolutely not a bust. Dominated in the second half of 2015 and was just injured all year last season. When healthy he's very good.



But if never healthy... he is a bust.


That would be your opinion est. What an actual bust is depends on how you see it.

Cedric Jones number 6 overall pick in the 96 draft. He played six or seven years in the league, and started a good amount of games, is he a bust? To me he is, because I feel a number six overall draft pick should be an impact player at least. But that is my opinion
I feel like "bust"  
ryanmkeane : 8/11/2017 2:49 pm : link
means you just aren't good at football or suck in the NFL. Was Nicks a bust? His career seems similar to Watkins. The answer would be no, obviously.
welp  
YAJ2112 : 8/11/2017 2:51 pm : link
glad I wasn't able to get Watkins in any FF drafts so far.
If you spend a pick that high on a player  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/11/2017 2:51 pm : link
and only get a good second half of one year, that's a bust. Okay, he had injury problems. You can put in that disclaimer if you want to and it does matter, but the pick still didn't work. You don't have to assume 'bust' means you're placing blame on someone.
RE: I feel like  
crick n NC : 8/11/2017 2:55 pm : link
In comment 13556469 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
means you just aren't good at football or suck in the NFL. Was Nicks a bust? His career seems similar to Watkins. The answer would be no, obviously.


Ryan, I don't feel Watkins has really come close to the type of player nicks was three years in, plus nicks was a late first round. Where you are picked matters to me
RE: welp  
ryanmkeane : 8/11/2017 2:57 pm : link
In comment 13556476 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
glad I wasn't able to get Watkins in any FF drafts so far.

I think going to Rams might actually help his value. Lots of games in good weather. Goff will be throwing a lot cause they'll be down. New coach who likes to play up tempo.
RE: If you spend a pick that high on a player  
ryanmkeane : 8/11/2017 2:58 pm : link
In comment 13556477 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
and only get a good second half of one year, that's a bust. Okay, he had injury problems. You can put in that disclaimer if you want to and it does matter, but the pick still didn't work. You don't have to assume 'bust' means you're placing blame on someone.

Good point, but his rookie year he was very good too.
What do i do in fantasy  
Mr. Nickels : 8/11/2017 3:15 pm : link
I have Gordon Gurley and Cooper as keepers.

I was going to take Watkins to pair with Cooper for the upside but do I really want 2 Rams?
RE: RE: The Pegulas refuse to be outdone by Jerrah!  
Toth029 : 8/11/2017 3:57 pm : link
In comment 13556281 est1986 said:
Quote:
In comment 13556236 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:


Quote:


So the Bills swap WRs and CBs and get a second and a third next year.



Watkins >>> Matthews
Darby >>> Gaines

Not sure I like Philly getting Darby.. Goff has a much needed weapon now in Watkins..


Watkins has missed eleven games in the previous two seasons though. Matthews is a solid slot guy and can stay healthy. Risk vs reward for LAR.

Darby has a weak second year but those can happen. Thought is, can he match up with the outside guys vs. Dez, Beckham/Marshall and Pryor?
Are people..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/11/2017 4:40 pm : link
really that oblivious to what goes on with other teams??

Quote:
RE: Watkins
est1986 : 2:18 pm : link : reply


But if never healthy... he is a bust.


He's been healthy more than not, but carry on.....
RE: Are people..  
crick n NC : 8/11/2017 5:11 pm : link
In comment 13556596 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
really that oblivious to what goes on with other teams??



Quote:


RE: Watkins
est1986 : 2:18 pm : link : reply


But if never healthy... he is a bust.



He's been healthy more than not, but carry on.....


He's been banged up a lot it seems, although I honestly didn't compare it to the rest of the league. Here is a list from 2014-2015 listing his various injuries
Watkins injuries - ( New Window )
Watkins is an excellent player  
KWALL2 : 8/11/2017 5:29 pm : link
He's a tough cover for any NFL DB. Forget the numbers with him. Hard to put up numbers without a QB.
I can't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/11/2017 5:44 pm : link
force people to watch other teams, but it sure would be nice if they didn't blabber on as if the guy barely sees the field.

Again - he played every game his rookie year and missed 3 the next year.

He has 17 career TD's.

You can keep calling him a bust or say he never plays, but that's only advisable if you want to keep sounding like a person who really doesn't follow the NFL too well.
RE: I can't..  
crick n NC : 8/11/2017 5:50 pm : link
In comment 13556642 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
force people to watch other teams, but it sure would be nice if they didn't blabber on as if the guy barely sees the field.

Again - he played every game his rookie year and missed 3 the next year.

He has 17 career TD's.

You can keep calling him a bust or say he never plays, but that's only advisable if you want to keep sounding like a person who really doesn't follow the NFL too well.


I'm saying he's banged up a lot. That's all. Maybe he isn't compared to the rest of the league. I never called him a bust. Does me saying he's banged up a lot show me to be someone who doesn't know much NFL?
RE: Darby can play.  
Eman11 : 8/11/2017 7:10 pm : link
In comment 13556369 area junc said:
Quote:
The Eagles always seem to make out in these deals.


I have a couple of friends who are huge Bills fans and they both told me he had a fantastic rookie season but regressed a bit last year. Good deal for the Bills if he plays like last year, bad if he plays like his rookie season according to them.

Take it for what it's worth but these guys have been fans for a long time and pretty fair in their usual takes on their team.
Matthews isn't good  
WillVAB : 8/11/2017 8:17 pm : link
Watkins is a good player.

The Eagles wouldn't give Matthews away for not much if he was a good player. He had every chance to be the guy in philly and was mediocre at best.

Watkins has top 20 WR talent, maybe better. He just got banged up and didn't like Buffalo. Bad QB. He's a star in the right situation.
Bills looking more to 2018  
5BowlsSoon : 8/11/2017 8:44 pm : link
They gave up two very good players to get two good players in return but they did get two much higher draft picks. I think that is more important to them.

As for SAMMY.......I too don't trust him to stay on the field, but when he is on the field (healthy) he is special.
RE: Shrewd from Buffalo  
SGMen : 8/12/2017 1:16 am : link
In comment 13556307 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Get something for him before overpaying him.
Supposedly, next year's draft is loaded. The Bills are going to likely be quite average now and they have a lot of picks. Crap shoot? Watkins will likely make big money and maybe they figured on youth stepping up or something?
RE: Shrewd from Buffalo  
BigBlueShock : 8/12/2017 8:41 am : link
In comment 13556307 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Get something for him before overpaying him.

Like clockwork....
RE: Only team it doesn't really make sense for  
giants#1 : 8/12/2017 8:53 am : link
In comment 13556287 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
is the Rams. Unless they're confident they can retain Watkins after this season.

Buffalo likely knew he wasn't coming back and did well to get assets for him.

Philly gets the corner they desperately needed.


Rams have the 6th most cap space for next season, so extending Watkins should be easy.

RE: Too short of a track record  
giants#1 : 8/12/2017 9:03 am : link
In comment 13556350 Giantfan in skinland said:
Quote:
to call him always banged up.

He's played 16, 13, and 8 games.

He's had trouble since the end of 2015. I guess the question is whether the Bills know something about his foot that the public doesn't. Keep in mind, they didn't just realize they wouldn't be able to re-sign him. They declined a team option for a 5th year this offseason as well. So they REALLY didn't want him back.


That's not true. Watkins was a top 10 pick, so his 2018 option was $13.2M, not the $8.5M option for Beckham.

If Watkins' option was the same as Beckham's, they probably pick it up, but $13M is a lot to guarantee with the injuries he's had the last 2 years.
Who was throwing the ball to Watkins?  
Ron Johnson 30 : 8/12/2017 9:10 am : link
.
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