Holy ... Bills trade Watkins to Rams & get Mathews from PHI

So the Bills swap WRs and CBs and get a second and a third next year.

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does that not leave the Bills pretty thin at cornerback?

CBs

In comment 13556251 santacruzom said:

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does that not leave the Bills pretty thin at cornerback?

Lezbianest. Where aren't the bills thin.

Bills are obviously worse now, but maybe use the draft assets to move up next year to grab one of the stud QB's.

. Good to see him leave the division

But I'm not sure I see it from the Bills' side.

The Eagles' D-line has the potential to be among the league's best. Hopefully Darby doesn't achieve the breakout year some people predicted for him!

In comment 13556245 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:

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This. Get extra picks. Free up money with Watkins (guess they should have gotten Odell). The rest of the AFC East has figured out that until Brady and Belichick leave, they aren't winning, so built for 2018 and beyond.

and his stone hands

In comment 13556260 BigBlue2112 said:

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. Good to see him leave the division

I guess he became expendable with the Jeffery signing, but that is only for one year. They got a great young CB.

In comment 13556268 figgy2989 said:

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In comment 13556260 BigBlue2112 said: Quote: . Good to see him leave the division I guess he became expendable with the Jeffery signing, but that is only for one year. They got a great young CB.

I don't know if I'd go that far. Darby has decent size for a corner (5'11", 195). The rest of the division is going to quickly realize that if you don't have players who can cover, the Giants are going to go up and down the field on you. He probably will be a slot corner to help out on Shepard. Still, good luck matching up with Marshall and Engram. Plus a healthy Vereen out of the backfield.

smart-ish play by the Bills.

Watkins is often injured and has injuries to areas we've seen rob WR careers (feet) and I won't pretend to know the difference between the two CB's, but say it's close they get a 2nd and 3rd round pick and a WR who has shown more ability than the one they traded to stay on the field. A downgrade in talent, but what good is talent if they don't show up.

Will finally be healthy and live up to his potential.

In comment 13556236 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:

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So the Bills swap WRs and CBs and get a second and a third next year.

Watkins >>> Matthews
Darby >>> Gaines

Not sure I like Philly getting Darby.. Goff has a much needed weapon now in Watkins..

is the Rams. Unless they're confident they can retain Watkins after this season.

Buffalo likely knew he wasn't coming back and did well to get assets for him.

Philly gets the corner they desperately needed.

the Bills have two 1st rounders, two 2nd rounders, and two 3rd rounders in next years' draft.

Hell of a way to build a new team.

In comment 13556289 Dave in Hoboken said:

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the Bills have two 1st rounders, two 2nd rounders, and two 3rd rounders in next years' draft. Hell of a way to build a new team.

Yup. Sounds like the 49ers from not too long ago, when it seemed like they had two 1st rounders every year.

keeping Matthews and not getting Darby - he's a solid, proven CB, a position the Eagles are really lacking at right now. THey have decent S, but the CB depth in Phi is not good, so this is a big boost to their D. At the cost of a player likely in a reduced role after they added Jefferey and Smith. Matthews is solid but not a #1, and I think Phi got better moving him for a good CB.

mimicking Cleveland by acquiring as many picks as possible, probably to move up for one of the QBs.

Watkins and Darby are better than Matthews and Gaines, but the latter are decent players. Watkins is also hurt a lot, and the Bills got a second and a third.

Good trade for the Bills.

As others have said, I'd rather not have Darby in our division, but we have a lot of weapons, and at least Matthews is gone.

In comment 13556287 Kyle in NY said:

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is the Rams. Unless they're confident they can retain Watkins after this season. Buffalo likely knew he wasn't coming back and did well to get assets for him. Philly gets the corner they desperately needed.

Only thing it could do for the Rams this year is open up some room for Gurley possibly, if Watkins can stay on the field.

Now have two 1s, two 2s and two 3s next year.

Get something for him before overpaying him.

Yes, especially when that Rams 2nd will likely be a top 15-20, or more likely better.

Now they can start Darby and Patrick Robinson, with Rasul Douglas as the nickel. If he's recovered, next year they get Nate Jones.

In comment 13556272 Matt in SGS said:

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In comment 13556268 figgy2989 said: Quote: In comment 13556260 BigBlue2112 said: Quote: . Good to see him leave the division I guess he became expendable with the Jeffery signing, but that is only for one year. They got a great young CB. I don't know if I'd go that far. Darby has decent size for a corner (5'11", 195). The rest of the division is going to quickly realize that if you don't have players who can cover, the Giants are going to go up and down the field on you. He probably will be a slot corner to help out on Shepard. Still, good luck matching up with Marshall and Engram. Plus a healthy Vereen out of the backfield.

Matt, absolutely this deal was made knowing they had to deal with the Giants receiving corps, but to say that Darby is going to be the slot corner is just silly. He would start over both Robinson and Mills.

In comment 13556262 santacruzom said:

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But I'm not sure I see it from the Bills' side. The Eagles' D-line has the potential to be among the league's best. Hopefully Darby doesn't achieve the breakout year some people predicted for him!

Darby is already a great corner, though. Good get for the Eagles, but the Bills give up a good receiver in Matthews and a third round pick. I think this trade is good for both sides, because the Bills are reloading. Matthews isn't as good as Watkins, but he's still a good player, and the picks they got back from the Eagles and Rams are going to help them do a quick rebuild. It will also likely benefit them to tank this year and get their franchise QB in next year's draft. So even if this trade makes them worse for this year (it does), that's not a bad thing for them long-term. And Tom Brady is 40 years old.

all Sammy Watkins does is get hurt and miss games

Keeps saying that it looks like Agholor has turned the corner, and is poised to be the slot receiver. If that's the case, Matthews was very expendable.

In comment 13556318 allstarjim said:

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Keeps saying that it looks like Agholor has turned the corner, and is poised to be the slot receiver. If that's the case, Matthews was very expendable.

Dropped a two point conversion last night.

Years already under his belt.

I really do hate that the Bills sent him the Philly.

hope this was a joke.

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what a bust so far jnoble : 1:30 pm : link : reply all Sammy Watkins does is get hurt and miss games

Watkins first two years he missed 3 games and scored 15 TD's.

That's being a bust? In what fucking universe?

Good trade for the Bills IMO. Watkins is super injury prone and is a FA after the year I think. Darby is pretty good but they also get a replacement CB, Mathews (underrated guy IMO), and two picks. They won't compete in the AFC East with the Pats until Brady retires so why not build for beyond that.

Not a bad trade for the Eagles. Mathews and a 3rd rounder is definitely a decent bit to give up, but they are trading from a position of strength and Mathews is a FA after the year. If Darby is decent and they resign Jeffrey, could be a good move in the long run.

Weird trade for the Rams. They have a lack of draft picks as-is with the Goff deal and trade a high pick for an injury prone guy who's a FA after the year.

Another can't miss that missed. Not a huge return for former number one overall pick.

Not afraid of Philly.

Not afraid of Dallas.

Not afraid of Washington.

My only fear is still that the OL will get Eli killed before he has a chance to play with his new toys.

In comment 13556327 kash94 said:

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Good trade for the Bills IMO. Watkins is super injury prone and is a FA after the year I think. Darby is pretty good but they also get a replacement CB, Mathews (underrated guy IMO), and two picks. They won't compete in the AFC East with the Pats until Brady retires so why not build for beyond that. Not a bad trade for the Eagles. Mathews and a 3rd rounder is definitely a decent bit to give up, but they are trading from a position of strength and Mathews is a FA after the year. If Darby is decent and they resign Jeffrey, could be a good move in the long run. Weird trade for the Rams. They have a lack of draft picks as-is with the Goff deal and trade a high pick for an injury prone guy who's a FA after the year.

Ah - didn't realize Watkins played 29 games his first two years. Just used to seeing his name on the injury list a lot!

Watkins is a bust, you really have a poor grasp of that word

In comment 13556330 averagejoe said:

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Another can't miss that missed. Not a huge return for former number one overall pick. Not afraid of Philly. Not afraid of Dallas. Not afraid of Washington. My only fear is still that the OL will get Eli killed before he has a chance to play with his new toys.

Watkins was not the number one overall pick

In comment 13556324 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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hope this was a joke. Quote: what a bust so far jnoble : 1:30 pm : link : reply all Sammy Watkins does is get hurt and miss games Watkins first two years he missed 3 games and scored 15 TD's. That's being a bust? In what fucking universe?

I think the perception of Watkins is he is banged up a lot. Maybe he's not, but without looking it up, I think of him as banged up. I think that is what jnoble meant

what he meant - and it is damn wrong.

If the perception is Watkins is a bust, then shouldn't the onus be on the people who think that to get a fucking clue?

I won't even get into the discussion that it is really hard to label injured players busts, but one thing Watkins has shown is that when he plays, he's damn good, even while he's had below average QB's throwing the ball.

to call him always banged up.

He's played 16, 13, and 8 games.

He's had trouble since the end of 2015. I guess the question is whether the Bills know something about his foot that the public doesn't. Keep in mind, they didn't just realize they wouldn't be able to re-sign him. They declined a team option for a 5th year this offseason as well. So they REALLY didn't want him back.

but reality is he has been injured and it's impacted his on-field results.

Jordan Matthews has outperformed Sammy Watkins in their 3 years in the league in receptions, yards and TD's. Matthews has played 9 more games though and that's the point.

Watkins is far more talented than Matthews, and I think the Bills were probably going to struggle on offense anyway, I don't think they'll be noticeably worse with Matthews than Watkins and then re-signing either is debateable.

Good move for Buffalo.

How much dead money for Eagles?
How many years left, at what cost to Bills?

In comment 13556330 averagejoe said:

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Another can't miss that missed. Not a huge return for former number one overall pick.

He wasn't a number 1 overall pick. You can argue that the return hasn't been as good as it should have been for a number 4 pick though, sure, but that's been due to injuries and not a poor evaluation of his talent.

The Eagles always seem to make out in these deals.

In comment 13556338 crick n NC said:

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In comment 13556324 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: hope this was a joke. Quote: what a bust so far jnoble : 1:30 pm : link : reply all Sammy Watkins does is get hurt and miss games Watkins first two years he missed 3 games and scored 15 TD's. That's being a bust? In what fucking universe? I think the perception of Watkins is he is banged up a lot. Maybe he's not, but without looking it up, I think of him as banged up. I think that is what jnoble meant

This. I don't pay much attention to the Bills but most of what I've heard concerning Watkins is whatever his latest injury or ailment is. If I didn't know any better (which I apparently don't) it seems like he's hardly gotten on the field at all in 3 seasons lol

I can guarantee you he will miss at least half the season with injuries...

In comment 13556355 rasbutant said:

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How much dead money for Eagles? How many years left, at what cost to Bills?

Mathews is on his rookie 2nd round contract. Couldn't be much.

In comment 13556368 santacruzom said:

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In comment 13556330 averagejoe said: Quote: Another can't miss that missed. Not a huge return for former number one overall pick. He wasn't a number 1 overall pick. You can argue that the return hasn't been as good as it should have been for a number 4 pick though, sure, but that's been due to injuries and not a poor evaluation of his talent.

The Bills traded a boatload to move up to #4 overall.

In comment 13556343 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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what he meant - and it is damn wrong. If the perception is Watkins is a bust, then shouldn't the onus be on the people who think that to get a fucking clue? I won't even get into the discussion that it is really hard to label injured players busts, but one thing Watkins has shown is that when he plays, he's damn good, even while he's had below average QB's throwing the ball.

Bust is subjective, right? Unless bust strictly means the inability to play in the league due to "being out of your league". I guess maybe you call a player selected high that hasn't played up to expectations due to injury a disappointment or unfortunate

Probably has to do with the other WRs picked after Watkins, Evans and OBJ, who have much better stats..

Poor Buffalo -- should have picked Mack, who literally was playing in their back yard.

Ever going to beat the Pats?

I said the perception of Watkins may be that he is BANGED UP, not that he is a bust. Jnoble was referring to Watkins health as him being a bust, I know you don't agree with that.

I have to say... I'm not so sure the Pats dynasty is going to go right down the tubes when Brady is gone. I think Garoppalo can really play. He has a nice quick release, good arm strength, and he moves well in the pocket. I think NE has something there and I would bet that as long as Bill is still on the sideline, they'll still be able to win quite a few games with JG under center.

is absolutely not a bust. Dominated in the second half of 2015 and was just injured all year last season. When healthy he's very good.

and stockpiling draft picks for a much stronger crop in 2018, by many accounts. WRs and CBs cost a ton via UFA, Bills are streamlining.

In comment 13556395 arcarsenal said:

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I have to say... I'm not so sure the Pats dynasty is going to go right down the tubes when Brady is gone. I think Garoppalo can really play. He has a nice quick release, good arm strength, and he moves well in the pocket. I think NE has something there and I would bet that as long as Bill is still on the sideline, they'll still be able to win quite a few games with JG under center.

Considering that the Patriots went 11-5 without Brady in 2008 and 3-1 without him last year, there's little doubt that the Patriots are contenders as long as Belichick is the head coach.

In comment 13556397 ryanmkeane said:

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is absolutely not a bust. Dominated in the second half of 2015 and was just injured all year last season. When healthy he's very good.

But if never healthy... he is a bust.

In comment 13556416 est1986 said:

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In comment 13556397 ryanmkeane said: Quote: is absolutely not a bust. Dominated in the second half of 2015 and was just injured all year last season. When healthy he's very good. But if never healthy... he is a bust.

That would be your opinion est. What an actual bust is depends on how you see it.

Cedric Jones number 6 overall pick in the 96 draft. He played six or seven years in the league, and started a good amount of games, is he a bust? To me he is, because I feel a number six overall draft pick should be an impact player at least. But that is my opinion

means you just aren't good at football or suck in the NFL. Was Nicks a bust? His career seems similar to Watkins. The answer would be no, obviously.

glad I wasn't able to get Watkins in any FF drafts so far.

and only get a good second half of one year, that's a bust. Okay, he had injury problems. You can put in that disclaimer if you want to and it does matter, but the pick still didn't work. You don't have to assume 'bust' means you're placing blame on someone.

In comment 13556469 ryanmkeane said:

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means you just aren't good at football or suck in the NFL. Was Nicks a bust? His career seems similar to Watkins. The answer would be no, obviously.

Ryan, I don't feel Watkins has really come close to the type of player nicks was three years in, plus nicks was a late first round. Where you are picked matters to me

In comment 13556476 YAJ2112 said:

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glad I wasn't able to get Watkins in any FF drafts so far.

I think going to Rams might actually help his value. Lots of games in good weather. Goff will be throwing a lot cause they'll be down. New coach who likes to play up tempo.

In comment 13556477 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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and only get a good second half of one year, that's a bust. Okay, he had injury problems. You can put in that disclaimer if you want to and it does matter, but the pick still didn't work. You don't have to assume 'bust' means you're placing blame on someone.

Good point, but his rookie year he was very good too.

I have Gordon Gurley and Cooper as keepers.

I was going to take Watkins to pair with Cooper for the upside but do I really want 2 Rams?

In comment 13556281 est1986 said:

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In comment 13556236 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said: Quote: So the Bills swap WRs and CBs and get a second and a third next year. Watkins >>> Matthews Darby >>> Gaines Not sure I like Philly getting Darby.. Goff has a much needed weapon now in Watkins..

Watkins has missed eleven games in the previous two seasons though. Matthews is a solid slot guy and can stay healthy. Risk vs reward for LAR.

Darby has a weak second year but those can happen. Thought is, can he match up with the outside guys vs. Dez, Beckham/Marshall and Pryor?

really that oblivious to what goes on with other teams??

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RE: Watkins est1986 : 2:18 pm : link : reply But if never healthy... he is a bust.

He's been healthy more than not, but carry on.....

In comment 13556596 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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really that oblivious to what goes on with other teams?? Quote: RE: Watkins est1986 : 2:18 pm : link : reply But if never healthy... he is a bust. He's been healthy more than not, but carry on.....

He's been banged up a lot it seems, although I honestly didn't compare it to the rest of the league. Here is a list from 2014-2015 listing his various injuries
Watkins injuries - ( New Window )

He's a tough cover for any NFL DB. Forget the numbers with him. Hard to put up numbers without a QB.

force people to watch other teams, but it sure would be nice if they didn't blabber on as if the guy barely sees the field.

Again - he played every game his rookie year and missed 3 the next year.

He has 17 career TD's.

You can keep calling him a bust or say he never plays, but that's only advisable if you want to keep sounding like a person who really doesn't follow the NFL too well.

In comment 13556642 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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force people to watch other teams, but it sure would be nice if they didn't blabber on as if the guy barely sees the field. Again - he played every game his rookie year and missed 3 the next year. He has 17 career TD's. You can keep calling him a bust or say he never plays, but that's only advisable if you want to keep sounding like a person who really doesn't follow the NFL too well.

I'm saying he's banged up a lot. That's all. Maybe he isn't compared to the rest of the league. I never called him a bust. Does me saying he's banged up a lot show me to be someone who doesn't know much NFL?

In comment 13556369 area junc said:

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The Eagles always seem to make out in these deals.

I have a couple of friends who are huge Bills fans and they both told me he had a fantastic rookie season but regressed a bit last year. Good deal for the Bills if he plays like last year, bad if he plays like his rookie season according to them.

Take it for what it's worth but these guys have been fans for a long time and pretty fair in their usual takes on their team.

Watkins is a good player.

The Eagles wouldn't give Matthews away for not much if he was a good player. He had every chance to be the guy in philly and was mediocre at best.

Watkins has top 20 WR talent, maybe better. He just got banged up and didn't like Buffalo. Bad QB. He's a star in the right situation.

They gave up two very good players to get two good players in return but they did get two much higher draft picks. I think that is more important to them.

As for SAMMY.......I too don't trust him to stay on the field, but when he is on the field (healthy) he is special.

In comment 13556307 Go Terps said:

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Get something for him before overpaying him.

Supposedly, next year's draft is loaded. The Bills are going to likely be quite average now and they have a lot of picks. Crap shoot? Watkins will likely make big money and maybe they figured on youth stepping up or something?

In comment 13556307 Go Terps said:

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Get something for him before overpaying him.

Like clockwork....

In comment 13556287 Kyle in NY said:

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is the Rams. Unless they're confident they can retain Watkins after this season. Buffalo likely knew he wasn't coming back and did well to get assets for him. Philly gets the corner they desperately needed.

Rams have the 6th most cap space for next season, so extending Watkins should be easy.

In comment 13556350 Giantfan in skinland said:

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to call him always banged up. He's played 16, 13, and 8 games. He's had trouble since the end of 2015. I guess the question is whether the Bills know something about his foot that the public doesn't. Keep in mind, they didn't just realize they wouldn't be able to re-sign him. They declined a team option for a 5th year this offseason as well. So they REALLY didn't want him back.

That's not true. Watkins was a top 10 pick, so his 2018 option was $13.2M, not the $8.5M option for Beckham.

If Watkins' option was the same as Beckham's, they probably pick it up, but $13M is a lot to guarantee with the injuries he's had the last 2 years.

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