I know it's only the first game,

One of them could have easily been Rudolph's fault. But Smith took a couple of sacks at the worst possible times - which I thought was pretty interesting given the discussion going on in another thread about Matt Ryan in the Super Bowl. In the limited time left in preseason, I would much rather have the Giants work on getting Davis Webb up to speed instead of giving snaps to Smith or Johnson. I'll admit, though, that I don't think the Giants feel that way.

In comment 13557720 Klaatu said:

Quote:

One of them could have easily been Rudolph's fault. But Smith took a couple of sacks at the worst possible times - which I thought was pretty interesting given the discussion going on in another thread about Matt Ryan in the Super Bowl. In the limited time left in preseason, I would much rather have the Giants work on getting Davis Webb up to speed instead of giving snaps to Smith or Johnson. I'll admit, though, that I don't think the Giants feel that way.

.

I just think Mac and Co. feel this will be a redshirt season for Davis. I really don't see them dressing 3 QB's when the season starts for example. He is too raw to be a backup yet.
He has a good pedigree, I think his dad is a football coach.

In comment 13557689 Diver_Down said:

Quote:

In comment 13557665 Mike in NY said: Quote: In comment 13557664 Diver_Down said: Quote: keep in mind our entire 1st string OL with our starting RB couldn't muster a semblance of a running game against a partial 1st string defense. BBI is ready to ball wash Flowers, but if Harrison was playing, he would have tore off Flowers arms when he deployed his clothesline, choke-hold pass defense. Weston managed a respectable 4 yards of being pushed off the ball instead of the usual 5-6 yards. Flowers strength is his run blocking, but yet the one run with Ellison on Flowers hip, Flowers got no push/crease against his guy. And we were without our top 3 WR and our QB so Pittsburgh could stack the box and gear up to stop the run I'm new to this football sport so would you be so kind as to when a QB and their top 3 WR are tasked with blocking interior DL and linebackers?

With Eli and our top 3 WR you would have better pocket awareness combined with the fact that teams would be doubling at least one WR taking one player out of the box that our OL would have to block

In comment 13557574 chopperhatch said:

Quote:

In comment 13557565 Klaatu said: Quote: He couldn't find an open receiver with a map and a compass. Geno Smith was Geno Smith - a couple of good passes followed by a boneheaded mistake. I honestly see no reason to keep either of them. Initially, I thought that Webb wouldn't get enough snaps to get an accurate assessment of his abilities, which was the case tonight where he barely got to play in the 4th quarter. Well, I say for the next three games, if Eli's not in the game, I hope Webb is. I've seen more than enough of Smith and Johnson. Funny you say that. Would it really be that bad if we had Webb as our back up? Eli goes down, we are fucked anyways. Might as well have the kid (and more competent looking player) get some minutes.

Exactly. Smith is who he is. Johnson? Third QB at best.

Save the roster spot IMO

In comment 13557720 Klaatu said:

Quote:

One of them could have easily been Rudolph's fault. But Smith took a couple of sacks at the worst possible times - which I thought was pretty interesting given the discussion going on in another thread about Matt Ryan in the Super Bowl. In the limited time left in preseason, I would much rather have the Giants work on getting Davis Webb up to speed instead of giving snaps to Smith or Johnson. I'll admit, though, that I don't think the Giants feel that way.

Playing devil's advocate, he also had a handful of throw-aways when it was clear the protection wasn't going to hold up.

Probably never will. Drafting Davis Webb was a stroke of genius.

In comment 13557818 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 13557720 Klaatu said: Quote: One of them could have easily been Rudolph's fault. But Smith took a couple of sacks at the worst possible times - which I thought was pretty interesting given the discussion going on in another thread about Matt Ryan in the Super Bowl. In the limited time left in preseason, I would much rather have the Giants work on getting Davis Webb up to speed instead of giving snaps to Smith or Johnson. I'll admit, though, that I don't think the Giants feel that way. Playing devil's advocate, he also had a handful of throw-aways when it was clear the protection wasn't going to hold up.

Yes, he did, which was smart.

However, the principle argument for keeping Smith (or any vet QB as your #2) with Eli starting and Webb red-shirting is that if, God forbid, Eli got hurt, a vet like Smith would still give us a chance to win some games, while a rookie would not. I don't know that I completely agree with that, especially not with Smith, who's been a below-average QB from day one.

I'd rather see the Giants concentrate on getting their rookie QB ready to play - just in case - freeing up an additional roster spot in the process, instead of relying on a guy who has proven himself to be unreliable in the past.

No one got hurt so it's a win from that perspective. The full picture is only just starting to come together. Like others, I put little stock in one preseason game, especially one in the rain. I imagine some of the rookies had butterflies and I want to see more of them to get a better idea of what can reasonably be expected from them now that they have the first game under their belt. While I, too, still have concerns about the O-Line, I am not panicking yet, especially with Johnson having started the game (ugh). I realize it is unlikely that teams will make few if any cuts before they have to (and that single cut down day will be a circus this year), the one game was enough to demonstrate that Johnson will not be making the team. Geno looked serviceable but I am among the group that would prefer to just make Webb the back-up QB and open up another roster spot in another area of need. I thought Webb did a decent job in the few series he played. In their last two Super Bowl winning seasons, the Giants won one (2007) and two (2011) preseason games, respectively.

The one thing that stood out to me was the continued block in the back penalties. On the one hand, the Giants had the second fewest penalties in 2016 with 88, only the Texans had fewer with 87 http://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html?sort=numpen. But, on the other, they were tied with Buffalo and Carolina for the most block in the back penalties with seven (I would have thought it was much more than that but these stats do not include when the penalty is declined or if there are offsetting penalties) - http://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/illegal-block-above-the-waist?year=2016. I hope they continue to work on that as few things piss me off more than to bring back a great kick return because of an illegal block in the back.

He actually did very well, I am upbeat. The sack was clearly on Johnson, he ran right into the guy while Flowers was blocking him. There was one play where the OL had a mis-communication and Watt was untouched, but I'm not sure who screwed up. I can't lay it on Flowers. Outside of that he was solid on every play.

that Doomster was going to claim the OL looked really bad unless they were pancaking people all over the place, partially because of his pessimistic take, but mostly because he doesn't have much of a clue on what to look for.

Banks and Papa pointed out a number of times how the OL looked improved and cautioned that it was just one game however.

Where somehow Doomster comes out with the opposite view.

Might as well play the rookie. Geno is el stinko

It is key to understand..
FatMan in Charlotte : 1:11 pm : link : reply
that Doomster was going to claim the OL looked really bad unless they were pancaking people all over the place, partially because of his pessimistic take, but mostly because he doesn't have much of a clue on what to look for.

Banks and Papa pointed out a number of times how the OL looked improved and cautioned that it was just one game however.

Where somehow Doomster comes out with the opposite view.


How dare I watch this game sober.......I will line up a few Polish 13's and rewatch the game ........I just can't understand how I missed such stellar play from this OL.....maybe I'll even wear the blue tints...I mean after reading all the positive comments about this OL in camp, how dare I write what I saw?

I have no illusions about this OL....I hope they play better than last year.....I hope we have a FB and better blocking TE's to help in the running game......I hope this OL gives Eli just a little more confidence in them....

This offense has the potential to score more points, and if the OL doesn't get in it's own way, it can happen....But when I hear such nonsense that guys like Wheeler, Hart, and Biz, and possibly Fluker, are the future of this team, you just have to shake your head.....

This OL has been rebuilding for 7 years, and where are we? Really, where are are we? Does anyone truly believe we have even turned the corner yet? We have invested in Flowers, Pugh, and Richburg......all three are question marks...by now they shouldn't be....and RG/RT looks to be a turnstile of players getting a shot, with the winner being the one that screws up the least, rather than that they are the best.....

We basically did nothing, to improve the OL in the off season......the free agents were too costly, and it wasn't a strong draft for OLmen......The Giant front office has backed themselves into this corner, as far as the OL goes, by lack of action and poor decisions in the past......when you have a franchise qb, you have to protect him.....we waited too long to fix this OL, and it's looking like the choices we have made in the draft, have not been as solid as we had hoped......Flowers has to improve....how much he can, remains to be seen.....Pugh has to show he can stay on the field, but even he is not worth the money some team may offer him next year.....Richburg, has developed this nasty habit of being overpowered and collapsing the pocket.....Jerry/Hart, is what it is.....

So you play with the cards you are dealt....we live and die with these guys.....we hope they can make that 3rd and short.....we hope they can occasionally run a screen.....we hope they can give Eli that extra time on third down....but doing it consistently, is the big question....

to write what you see, but it would probably be a better idea to try and understand what you see first.

Building a good offensive line is not an exact science. If it was, every team would have one.

Sometimes it comes down to the luck of the draw. The Giants watched players like Nate Solder, Taylor Lewan, and Jack Conklin get drafted right before they were up.

Sometimes you get to pick 9th and you draft Tyron Smith, and then have the luxury of breaking him in at RT for two years before moving him to LT. Sometimes you get to pick 9th and you draft Ereck Flowers, and then due to injury you're forced to start him out at LT when he obviously wasn't ready, and also had to deal with a high ankle sprain on top of that.

Sometimes you get lucky and hit on a UDFA, like the Giants did with Rich Seubert and the Cowboys did with Ronald Leary, but much more often than not you don't.

Sometimes you can afford a top-tier free agent and make him the highest-paid RT in the game, as the Giants did with Kareem McKenzie in 2005. But guys like that don't hit the market very often, and when they do they cost an arm and a leg. You can't keep buying them every year, not when you have other priorities.

So, please, stop with the complaints about how long it's taking the Giants to build a good offensive line. They haven't ignored it. They've made big investments in theirs, and if those investments haven't paid immediate dividends, well, the game's not over yet.

the OL will be helped with Ellison, a legit #2 WR who can. Lock, and a TE that should keep defenses honest. Not to mention a competent QB who knows everything about every player blocking and catching for him.

Being a good line isn't just about the 5 guys blocking.

Dalvin Tomlinson looks like he will develop quite nicely to me thats big .
We still showed no signs of being able to run the ball I not so sure Gallman is going to thrive with that upright style of running we shall see .
Wseton Richberg still gets pushed back way to easily and isgonna struggle with big DT's . Flowers did look better hopefully he continues to become consistant .
We will have to rely on Dwayne Harris as our primary punt and kickoff returner I just wonder if they will give Kevin Snead a chance unless he just can't secure the ball at all.Hopefully now that Harris is healthy his return stats will pick back up .
Anybody guess as to who the last WR's will make the team I have hopes on Powe he is not a burner but has decent size and good hands runs good routes .Roger Lewis has dropped a few but does do a decent job as a gunner .
Jerome Lane most likely quite raw but he has nice size and shows some toughness to him . Not sure how long King will be out but I hope he gets healthy soon and gets back out there .
Devin Taylor Okawara are locks I think OO is probably toast Avery Moss showed a little as did Jordan Williams granted his sack was kind of a gimmie but he made a nice
penitration move the play before Kerry Wynn keeps on improving he is also a lock . Didn't notice any key injuries hope that continues .

In comment 13558051 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

Being a good line isn't just about the 5 guys blocking.

Agreed. We need like 9 of them blocking...

In comment 13557442 madgiantscow009 said:

Quote:

Webb look?

like someone capable of taking over the QB position in a couple years. i really hope they increase his playing time at the expense of JJ - he's garbage and a waste of time. I was kinda impressed with Geno too ...

cut JJ, give Geno a chance to resurrect his career - and get Webb more reps.

I'd still prefer just 2 QBs, but Geno showed enough to stick around.