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NFT: Premier League: Manchester United vs West Ham

Gene : 8/13/2017 11:07 am
It's baaaaack!

United vs West Ham kicking off right now on NBCSN to wind up a wild Week 1 in the EPL.

Arsenal with a 4-3 comeback win v Leicester City...Chelsea losing 3-2 to Burnley while having both Cahill and Fabregas sent off...Rooney bagging the game winner with his return to Everton...

Who do you like, Lukaku or Chicarito?
Lukaku  
Gene : 8/13/2017 11:38 am : link
opens his United account by banging one off the post and in. 1-0 in the 33'.
Neither  
Jon in NYC : 8/13/2017 11:40 am : link
Lukaku or Chicharito can hold a candle to David Villa right now.

What another amazing goal last night.

The most dominant NYC athlete right now. Yes, including Odell.
.  
Gene : 8/13/2017 12:00 pm : link



Sweet goal by Lewis, too.
First time I have sat and really watched this sport  
LCtheINTMachine : 8/13/2017 12:01 pm : link
Not an expert but Man U look way better than this other team. Is this supposed to be a rivalry or something?
To my knowledge it  
Gene : 8/13/2017 12:07 pm : link
isn't a rivalry, but I'm sure fans of United or West Ham can give you a better answer.
Lukaku again in the 53'.  
Gene : 8/13/2017 12:10 pm : link
What a start to his United career.
I think..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/13/2017 12:11 pm : link
Lukaku is vehemently disagreeing with you

Quote:
Neither
Jon in NYC : 11:40 am : link : reply
Lukaku or Chicharito can hold a candle to David Villa right now.


If you are a fan of the MLS, you probably don't want Villa to perpetuate the idea that washed up Europeans can come over and dominate.
RE: I think..  
Jon in NYC : 8/13/2017 12:14 pm : link
In comment 13558775 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Lukaku is vehemently disagreeing with you



Quote:


Neither
Jon in NYC : 11:40 am : link : reply
Lukaku or Chicharito can hold a candle to David Villa right now.



If you are a fan of the MLS, you probably don't want Villa to perpetuate the idea that washed up Europeans can come over and dominate.


Villa is proving that he isn't washed. Not by any stretch.

Lampard, Pirlo? Washed up. Villa is on another level.
C'mon Gene!  
pganut : 8/13/2017 12:15 pm : link
You know the real result was City's suffocation of Brighton yesterday, 2-nil. City is gonna be so fun to watch this year.
RE: C'mon Gene!  
Jon in NYC : 8/13/2017 12:16 pm : link
In comment 13558781 pganut said:
Quote:
You know the real result was City's suffocation of Brighton yesterday, 2-nil. City is gonna be so fun to watch this year.


City is really really good and really deep. They have an unreal starting XI and a bench that would still make the top 4. Gabriel Jesus is special.
My point on Villa..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/13/2017 12:19 pm : link
is you're going to have a difficult time convincing casual fans that he isn't just another Euro coming for a money grab

Quote:
Villa is proving that he isn't washed. Not by any stretch.

Lampard, Pirlo? Washed up. Villa is on another level.


Basically, the view will be that Lukaku can dominate the world's best while Villa can go to America and crush the Little Leagues. Not saying that's true, but it most certainly is the perception.
Actually it  
Gene : 8/13/2017 12:21 pm : link
looks like the EPL is going to be a lot fun this year. I mean it's going to be the usual 5 or 6 clubs competing for the championship, but it's looks like a very intriguing 2017-18 season ahead.
I  
AcidTest : 8/13/2017 12:42 pm : link
didn't realize they started this weekend. As an Everton fan, it sucks that we lost Lukaku, but I never expected to keep him. Nice start to Rooney's return to Everton.
RE: My point on Villa..  
AcidTest : 8/13/2017 12:43 pm : link
In comment 13558787 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is you're going to have a difficult time convincing casual fans that he isn't just another Euro coming for a money grab



Quote:


Villa is proving that he isn't washed. Not by any stretch.

Lampard, Pirlo? Washed up. Villa is on another level.



Basically, the view will be that Lukaku can dominate the world's best while Villa can go to America and crush the Little Leagues. Not saying that's true, but it most certainly is the perception.


Agreed.
Wow.  
AcidTest : 8/13/2017 12:44 pm : link
What passing, and a great finish by Martial.
And  
AcidTest : 8/13/2017 12:47 pm : link
another by MU. 4-0.
4-0 final.  
Gene : 8/13/2017 12:50 pm : link
"Hammers Hammered."
Villa is still one of the best strikers in the world  
Go Terps : 8/13/2017 1:07 pm : link
Spain should call him up...they don't have a better option.
Jermaine Defoe  
Go Terps : 8/13/2017 1:10 pm : link
Defoe couldn't hack it in MLS. He went back to England and scored a ton of goals last year. That doesn't mean MLS is tough and the EPL sucks.

David Villa could play on any team in the world. He's still that good.
Man United looked the best  
moespree : 8/13/2017 1:26 pm : link
Of anyone this weekend in my opinion. Man City right behind them. Going to be a very interesting season. By all accounts this is the best Man United squad in quite some time.
Defoe  
CJW_Wales : 8/13/2017 1:49 pm : link
Quote:
Jermaine Defoe
Go Terps : 1:10 pm : link : reply
Defoe couldn't hack it in MLS.


Jermain Defoe scored 11 goals in 19 matches in the MLS, so I think he probably could hack it.
Comparing the MLS to the top European leagues is like comparing the CFL to the NFL. Yes some players can make the transition, the the standards are vastly different though.
still fuming about the Leicester loss - they finally were going to get  
Nitro : 8/13/2017 2:48 pm : link
over the Arsenal bugaboo, lots of positives though.

Man U put in a commanding show today.
RE: Man United looked the best  
nyjuggernaut2 : 8/13/2017 4:32 pm : link
In comment 13558834 moespree said:
Quote:
Of anyone this weekend in my opinion. Man City right behind them. Going to be a very interesting season. By all accounts this is the best Man United squad in quite some time.


Wouldn't sleep on Spurs. They are the most cohesive team of the top 6.
COYS  
No Where Man : 8/13/2017 5:28 pm : link
.
All the finest people on this thread...  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 8/13/2017 5:31 pm : link
A few points from this weekend:

- The defending in England sucks right now and will continue to bite the top teams in the ass. Look at the top teams and tell me if there is an elite center back among them outside of a just past his prime Vincent Kompany. We'll see more scorelines like this all year.

- THAT was a Manchester United team that played today - attack, attack attack. I still think that Jose has his doubts about who plays in big games and still need some more depth, but we'll see.

- As for the David Villa debate, he is on fire and could play in Europe right now, particularly when you consider Fernando Torres is on the bench at Atletico. That being said, the Galaxy team he played last night was awful.

- Harry Kane is going to get himself and his teammates in deep shit with these slide tackles. He pulled the same thing against Roma in the ICC and it nearly started a fight. Today it knocked the Newcastle player out of the game and escalated tensions that later led to the Shelvy stomp (lest we forget Shelvy is a known idiot).
RE: All the finest people on this thread...  
nyjuggernaut2 : 8/13/2017 5:58 pm : link
In comment 13559012 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
A few points from this weekend:

- The defending in England sucks right now and will continue to bite the top teams in the ass. Look at the top teams and tell me if there is an elite center back among them outside of a just past his prime Vincent Kompany. We'll see more scorelines like this all year.


I can name two...Toby Alderweireld and Jan Vertonghen. Best GA in the league last season.
Spurs are very good  
moespree : 8/13/2017 6:16 pm : link
But I don't think they can survive any injuries to top guys. They haven't spent any money probably due to the new stadium, and while they do have depth, it's not Kane or Alli or Eriksen waiting to come in if any of those 3 go down. Chelsea is a big mystery to me. I don't know what they're doing. They will regret selling Matic to Man United. What a terrible decision.
City has me encouraged  
B in ALB : 8/13/2017 6:47 pm : link
But I don't like the whole "favorites" label. If they can replace Otamendi at the back I'll feel a lot better. City vs United this season is going to be unreal.
RE: Defoe  
Gmen1982 : 8/13/2017 7:43 pm : link
In comment 13558856 CJW_Wales said:
Quote:


Quote:


Jermaine Defoe
Go Terps : 1:10 pm : link : reply
Defoe couldn't hack it in MLS.





Jermain Defoe scored 11 goals in 19 matches in the MLS, so I think he probably could hack it.
Comparing the MLS to the top European leagues is like comparing the CFL to the NFL. Yes some players can make the transition, the the standards are vastly different though.


Check mate!
I've never said MLS was better than the EPL  
Go Terps : 8/13/2017 11:30 pm : link
It isn't. The EPL is, however, hugely overrated.
I would put their top 7 against any other leagues top 7  
Gmen1982 : 8/14/2017 7:07 am : link
They have the most depth in the world.
RE: I would put their top 7 against any other leagues top 7  
Go Terps : 8/14/2017 10:43 am : link
In comment 13559454 Gmen1982 said:
Quote:
They have the most depth in the world.


What's that based on? I know it isn't the only metric we have: performance in Europe. In the last 10 years:

Champions League Winners: Spain 6, England 2
Europa League: Spain 5, England 2

In the last 5 years England's performance in the Champions League had been so poor there was talk of them losing that automatic fourth place qualifier. So UEFA is going to change the rules to make sure the English cash cows remain involved:

Quote:
Under a proposed new qualification format, the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga could all be guaranteed four clubs qualifying automatically every season.

However, one new feature of the rule is that while the top three teams in each domestic league would earn a place in the group stage, the fourth would be decided on something described as Ďhistorical merití, according to Gazzetta dello Sport.

Itís not yet clear what the specifics of this will mean, but the aim is to keep in giants of the game such as Manchester United, Liverpool and AC Milan, all of whom have been in and out of the competition in recent years due to poor showings in the league.


Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/08/09/champions-league-rule-changes-could-see-automatic-qualification-for-four-premier-league-clubs-every-season-6057734/#ixzz4pjzf1vjr
Link  
Go Terps : 8/14/2017 10:43 am : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
Along those lines  
Kyle in NY : 8/14/2017 10:57 am : link
I thought this was a pretty interesting piece about how the increase in premier league money, popularity, and relative parity has coincided with a drop in European performance.

Quote:
Money attracts the best players and the best managers. Do some simple alchemy, and the end result should be this: Money makes the best teams. Except, in England, it hasnít. Of the 28 Champions League semifinalists this decade, only four have been from the Premier League. Chelsea won in 2012 and Manchester United made the year prior, but thatís where the successes end. Tottenham has made the Round of 16 once this decade, Liverpool hasnít gotten out of the group stage since 2009, City made the semis in 2015 but otherwise havenít won a knockout tie, and Arsenal ó well, information regarding the symptoms of Stockholm syndrome is widely available for fans.

The Premier Leagueís growing purchasing power has coincided with its waning influence at the highest levels of European soccer. United, City, and Chelsea can pay superstars just as much as they get anywhere else, and Liverpool and Arsenal arenít far behind, but the money hasnít been enough. With great power has not come a great Premier League team.


The Premier League is probably as unpredictable and exciting as it's ever been. The TV money has created some semblance of parity that likely will not be seen in any of the other top leagues. But as we've seen in the NFL and elsewhere, increased parity does not equal increased quality. It has likely hurt them in European competition as the player quality is now more spread out among PL teams than it was when Chelsea/Liverpool/United were champions league semi final fixtures.


Link - ( New Window )
That said  
Kyle in NY : 8/14/2017 10:57 am : link
I definitely think the Manchester teams have a chance to buck that trend this season.

Consider me extremely concerned about Chelsea though
Kyle  
Go Terps : 8/14/2017 11:07 am : link
I'm not sure...Man City seems haphazardly slapped together. I don't trust the back line, and I'm not sure they're going to get the requisite cover from the midfield. That won't matter much against Brighton, but in the Champions League it could be a problem.

United seems better put together to my eye, but a lot depends on Pogba and I have a hard time trusting him.
RE: I would put their top 7 against any other leagues top 7  
Jon in NYC : 8/14/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13559454 Gmen1982 said:
Quote:
They have the most depth in the world.


And BBI's resident soccer doofus checks in.
Pogba is going to attack much more than last season  
moespree : 8/14/2017 11:34 am : link
The addition of Matic will allow this. Last season he had to stay back more as Mourinho had very little trust in Carrick until the second half of the season. This is gone now. He knows Matic, has won big with Matic at Chelsea and trusts him. He'll allow Pogba to get forward this season. In my opinion you're going to see a tremendous season from Pogba.
Craziness in Spain  
Go Terps : 8/14/2017 11:59 am : link
If you missed it yesterday, Real Madrid beat Barcelona 3-1 in the first leg of the Supercopa at the Nou Camp. Ronaldo came on as a sub and scored a great goal, after which he took his shirt off and earned a yellow. Shortly after he earned a second yellow for a dive, and shoved the ref in the back after seeing the red card. He's been suspended for five matches.
RE: RE: I would put their top 7 against any other leagues top 7  
Gmen1982 : 8/14/2017 1:01 pm : link
In comment 13559703 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13559454 Gmen1982 said:


Quote:


They have the most depth in the world.



And BBI's resident soccer doofus checks in.


the best part is watch when villa rejoins Spain he will also leave to play in a real league.
RE: RE: RE: I would put their top 7 against any other leagues top 7  
Jon in NYC : 8/14/2017 1:08 pm : link
In comment 13559911 Gmen1982 said:
Quote:
In comment 13559703 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 13559454 Gmen1982 said:


Quote:


They have the most depth in the world.



And BBI's resident soccer doofus checks in.



the best part is watch when villa rejoins Spain he will also leave to play in a real league.


What a sad sad viewpoint.
And By the way,  
Gmen1982 : 8/14/2017 1:08 pm : link
Talking about how Villa is dominating the MLS at age 34 doesn't help your claim about the MLS there genius.
Villa is unlikely to ever again play for Spain  
Go Terps : 8/14/2017 1:11 pm : link
The assumption in Spain is that Morata and Costa are better players than Villa. They aren't, but that's the assumption.

Villa would be a top scorer in any league  
Go Terps : 8/14/2017 1:13 pm : link
Last year Harry Kane was the top scorer in England...Villa is still a better player than he is.
The assumption from the coaches?  
Gmen1982 : 8/14/2017 1:14 pm : link
.
RE: The assumption from the coaches?  
Go Terps : 8/14/2017 1:17 pm : link
In comment 13559931 Gmen1982 said:
Quote:
.


Yeah. They assume because he's playing in MLS he isn't as good as guys like Morata or Costa who are playing in Europe. But as a fan of the Spanish national team I'd want Villa in over those guys in a heartbeat. Villa is the best striker Spain has ever produced, and at 34 he still isn't that far off his peak. He's one of the truly underrated and underappreciated players of this era.
RE: RE: The assumption from the coaches?  
Gmen1982 : 8/14/2017 1:20 pm : link
In comment 13559937 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13559931 Gmen1982 said:


Quote:


.



Yeah. They assume because he's playing in MLS he isn't as good as guys like Morata or Costa who are playing in Europe. But as a fan of the Spanish national team I'd want Villa in over those guys in a heartbeat. Villa is the best striker Spain has ever produced, and at 34 he still isn't that far off his peak. He's one of the truly underrated and underappreciated players of this era.


Come on. They would bring him in if they thought/think he's good enough. I agree they should at least give him a shot without a true striker on the team but they know more than anyone who to bring in. I doubt they wouldn't give him a shot solely based on playing in the MLS.
RE: Kyle  
Kyle in NY : 8/14/2017 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13559677 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I'm not sure...Man City seems haphazardly slapped together. I don't trust the back line, and I'm not sure they're going to get the requisite cover from the midfield. That won't matter much against Brighton, but in the Champions League it could be a problem.

United seems better put together to my eye, but a lot depends on Pogba and I have a hard time trusting him.


Had a feeling Pogba wouldn't be your type of player. They do seem really well put together though and I think he'll have a much better season than last year. Figured they've got to win it this season before it all blows up for Mourinho in year three per usual.

City's attack is as good as it gets but I do agree, I don't trust any back line that's led by Otamendi and Stones.
RE: Pogba is going to attack much more than last season  
ColHowPepper : 8/14/2017 1:27 pm : link
In comment 13559718 moespree said:
Quote:
The addition of Matic will allow this. Last season he had to stay back more as Mourinho had very little trust in Carrick until the second half of the season. This is gone now. He knows Matic, has won big with Matic at Chelsea and trusts him. He'll allow Pogba to get forward this season. In my opinion you're going to see a tremendous season from Pogba.
I don't underestimate the addition of Matic as Mourinho clearly has a plan and role for him, a "poor man's Xavi, or perhaps closer to Iniesta" ((>:), but, based on the half of yesterday's match I watched, equally important to Pogba's play was the space created for him because defenders were preoccupied by Lukaku, and variously with Rashford and Martial. This will vary game to game, and Matic is a key puppeteer, but Pogba's skillset or limitations thereon seem to need the space to maneuver and Lukaku et al. will be key. That said, I'm not portraying myself as expert in all things Pogba.
Villa's goal against Red Bulls the other week -  
Del Shofner : 8/14/2017 1:27 pm : link
the one where he scored off the long dribbling run - was incredible in any league. It's not just skill, it's the mentality - he was determined to score there and he did, with degree of difficulty way up there.

I'm not a huge MLS fan myself but Villa is playing great.
Gmen  
Go Terps : 8/14/2017 1:28 pm : link
I hope they do call him up, but I doubt it. Lopetegui has a history with Morata having coached him in the youth ranks, and Spain seems to be anxious to move on to the next generation after the 2014 debacle.

Villa is a pure goal scorer with incredible instincts. He's a small guy and was never exceptionally quick, so any step that he's lost with age hasn't really affected his game. He just has an uncanny ability to be in the right place at the right time, and he has a great ability to strike the ball cleanly.

He isn't the only worthy player that is left off a national team because he plays in MLS. Giovinco is a better attacking player than anyone Italy took to Euro 2016, and he wasn't selected.
Kyle  
Go Terps : 8/14/2017 1:31 pm : link
Yeah I find Pogba tough to take, but beyond that I just don't see it from him as a player. He doesn't influence games as much as you'd expect from someone with his great mix of talent and physical condition.
Players should always be invited to train and get a shot.  
Gmen1982 : 8/14/2017 1:34 pm : link
.
RE: Villa's goal against Red Bulls the other week -  
Jon in NYC : 8/14/2017 1:34 pm : link
In comment 13559958 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
the one where he scored off the long dribbling run - was incredible in any league. It's not just skill, it's the mentality - he was determined to score there and he did, with degree of difficulty way up there.

I'm not a huge MLS fan myself but Villa is playing great.


And he followed it up this week with an upper 90 strike with his off foot.

Villa is a beast. MLS or otherwise.

Either way, can't stand the fake eurosnob mouthbreathers like 1982 who dismiss the MLS without knowing good soccer if a ball hit them square in the forehead.
Everytime..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/14/2017 1:57 pm : link
I see Pogba, I want to take a tube of hair paint and smear it on his head.
RE: RE: Kyle  
pganut : 8/14/2017 2:00 pm : link
In comment 13559947 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
City's attack is as good as it gets but I do agree, I don't trust any back line that's led by Otamendi and Stones.
As a City supporter, I echo the concerns over Otamendi. However, I think he's just a placeholder for Benjamin Mendy, and once installed, a back quartet of Walker, Kompany, Stones and Danilo is light years better than what we've thrown out there in recent seasons, and bound to be an improvement on what has been a very shaky D.
Jon..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/14/2017 2:00 pm : link
Quote:
Either way, can't stand the fake eurosnob mouthbreathers like 1982 who dismiss the MLS without knowing good soccer if a ball hit them square in the forehead


I do think there is a difference between 1982 who consistently sounds like an idiot on soccer threads and having a discussion on how the rest of the world views the MLS though.

It is still looked at as a league where guys can go for one last money grab against sub-par competition. I don't think that's accurate, but it is the perception.

The bigger question is how does that perception change? Because I don't think the league can take the next step until it does. Maybe the US making a run in the World Cup will?
RE: RE: Villa's goal against Red Bulls the other week -  
Gmen1982 : 8/14/2017 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13559971 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13559958 Del Shofner said:


Quote:


the one where he scored off the long dribbling run - was incredible in any league. It's not just skill, it's the mentality - he was determined to score there and he did, with degree of difficulty way up there.

I'm not a huge MLS fan myself but Villa is playing great.



And he followed it up this week with an upper 90 strike with his off foot.

Villa is a beast. MLS or otherwise.

Either way, can't stand the fake eurosnob mouthbreathers like 1982 who dismiss the MLS without knowing good soccer if a ball hit them square in the forehead.


Yes, I wouldn't. I didn't just play against two players entering the upcoming mls draft. I will tell you these players were awesome, compared to other college players and people like me. But I'm sure you see talent at your competitive games at the park correct? Yea I'm a euro snob because I prefer to watch better soccer. If you try to tell me that the MLS is better soccer than you do t know your asshole from your elbow.
pga  
Kyle in NY : 8/14/2017 2:05 pm : link
you've fixed your issues at fullback but you simply cannot count on Kompany to stay healthy anymore. Still vulnerable and thin at CB.

It's splitting hairs somewhat. It's a side plenty capable of winning the league. But in the context of European success, I'd have concerns down the middle.

Should be interesting. Still a few weeks left to add players. Chelsea needs to get busy or they're going to screw up and alienate Conte, the best things that's happened to this team since '04 Mourinho.
I think another thing that colors Europe's view of MLS is that  
Del Shofner : 8/14/2017 2:10 pm : link
there is no promotion or relegation. By promotion in this context, I mean finishing high enough to play in the Champions League, which may be the highest level of all (even more so than the World Cup, which can be fantastically exciting in a different way). You don't see the better teams in MLS then facing a higher level.

And as to relegation - in Europe, you perform poorly and you're out of the league, which has huge monetary consequences. (And vice versa - there was a great article in the Times about what Hudderfield's promotion to EPL has meant for the city economically.) MLS teams don't face that pressure.

I'm not saying these affect the soccer itself in MLS - just the perception. The US winning the World Cup, or coming close, would certainly help with the perception.

Del..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/14/2017 2:21 pm : link
do you think at some point the concept of relegation could happen here?

We just don't have enough lower level leagues that could be competitive IMO.

I don't think too many people know about the Lamar Hunt Open Cup, even though it seems to me like the competition has been getting stronger every year.
RE: Jon..  
Jon in NYC : 8/14/2017 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13560017 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


Either way, can't stand the fake eurosnob mouthbreathers like 1982 who dismiss the MLS without knowing good soccer if a ball hit them square in the forehead



I do think there is a difference between 1982 who consistently sounds like an idiot on soccer threads and having a discussion on how the rest of the world views the MLS though.

It is still looked at as a league where guys can go for one last money grab against sub-par competition. I don't think that's accurate, but it is the perception.

The bigger question is how does that perception change? Because I don't think the league can take the next step until it does. Maybe the US making a run in the World Cup will?


I certainly think that used to be the perception, but that's fading quickly. More old european stars are failing in the MLS than not. Gerrard, Lampard, Pirlo, Nesta, Defoe, Kaka the list goes on and on.

The league is also getting better and better. It's just a matter of time. And the perception is changing bit by bit. I don't have anything to back this up other than the eye test and anecdotal data, but you see plenty of instances of top European stars saying that they watch MLS in their spare time. I'm excited about the future of the league.
RE: Del..  
Jon in NYC : 8/14/2017 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13560048 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
do you think at some point the concept of relegation could happen here?

We just don't have enough lower level leagues that could be competitive IMO.

I don't think too many people know about the Lamar Hunt Open Cup, even though it seems to me like the competition has been getting stronger every year.


They just got offered oodles of money to adopt pro/rel and turned it down. It won't happen anytime soon.
But Jon..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/14/2017 2:53 pm : link
Quote:
I certainly think that used to be the perception, but that's fading quickly. More old european stars are failing in the MLS than not. Gerrard, Lampard, Pirlo, Nesta, Defoe, Kaka the list goes on and on.


This becomes a double-edged sword. There aren't any expectations for the fading players and the casual fan knows their names from glory days. Most don't know they fail. When they succeed it reinforces the idea old guys can come here and dominate.

And since so many fans are casual, they might hear about Lampard signing here or the like - they just know they came to the US to play and then they don't follow them.

And you still have a lot of fans who don't follow the MLS , but follow the Euro leagues. That won't help eliminate the perceptions.
Gmen  
Go Terps : 8/14/2017 2:57 pm : link
If you want to watch the best soccer exclusively how come you're watching the EPL and not La Liga?
GT..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/14/2017 3:04 pm : link
basically this guy uses soccer threads to post that he regularly plays with some great soccer players.

I think he's under the impression it makes him look better, but I wonder why a guy who plays at such a high level sounds like a fucking idiot when discussing the sport.
RE: Del..  
Del Shofner : 8/14/2017 3:05 pm : link
In comment 13560048 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
do you think at some point the concept of relegation could happen here?


What Jon said ... MLS is able to charge big, big bucks for a new franchise now, folks aren't going to pay that and risk being relegated. Even if it's a better system. And we're probably not ready for that system - the second tier clubs in the US have some very good players, but many of them play in venues that wouldn't be suitable for MLS.
The Charlotte..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/14/2017 3:10 pm : link
Eagles play on a field that rec teams use!
yeah ... hard to see David Villa playing a match at  
Del Shofner : 8/14/2017 3:20 pm : link
the Charlotte Christian School field (just looked at a picture of it). Although Yankee Stadium is not ideal either, the field is very narrow. NYC FC really need their own place - that's a whole other topic.
Yankee Stadium  
Jon in NYC : 8/14/2017 3:33 pm : link
is a joke of a soccer field. It really is embarrassing.
RE: Gmen  
Gmen1982 : 8/14/2017 3:47 pm : link
In comment 13560097 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If you want to watch the best soccer exclusively how come you're watching the EPL and not La Liga?


I catch la liga games (mostly Real Madrid) and bundelsiga here and there. The problem is watching Real Madrid they usually are killing the other team. EPL games are usually more competitive.
RE: GT..  
Gmen1982 : 8/14/2017 3:50 pm : link
In comment 13560106 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
basically this guy uses soccer threads to post that he regularly plays with some great soccer players.

I think he's under the impression it makes him look better, but I wonder why a guy who plays at such a high level sounds like a fucking idiot when discussing the sport.


Fatman, who the fuck are you? I really don't even want to get into conversation with you but you keep going at me. What is your background if you don't mind me asking?
And I would love for you to educate me on the sport.  
Gmen1982 : 8/14/2017 3:54 pm : link
Tell me what I've said that is so idiotic and then correct me chief.
And fatman, when some fuck that admitted his soccer  
Gmen1982 : 8/14/2017 4:03 pm : link
Experience is fucking pickup games at the park wants to say I don't know what I'm talking about I will state my resume. Guess what, I don't research, I don't know half the names of our own squad. But I know talent and good soccer when I see it.

Jon, if you use the "eye test" you would see that the pace of play, the accuracy of passes, complexity of movement is all superior in the EPL. And this doesn't mean I don't want the US to be successful in the World Cup. I just do t want to waste my time watching MLS when there's much better quality soccer on TV.
Pro/Rel  
Go Terps : 8/14/2017 4:16 pm : link
I don't see promotion or relegation ever happening. I'd guess that MLS is using the big four US leagues, not soccer leagues overseas, as the model.

I'd love pro/rel and a single table format, but it's hard to imagine either when MLS is a franchise-based system and their stated goal is 28 teams.

If I were running MLS and pro/rel wasn't an option, I'd instead look to expand way past 28 teams and regionalize into smaller sub-leagues that operated on a single table. Say you eventually went to 80 teams divided into four quadrants of the US, you could then install tournaments involving the top teams in each quadrant, for example.
RE: Yankee Stadium  
Go Terps : 8/14/2017 4:18 pm : link
In comment 13560179 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
is a joke of a soccer field. It really is embarrassing.


How are they coming along on getting a new stadium?
RE: Pro/Rel  
Gmen1982 : 8/14/2017 4:21 pm : link
In comment 13560250 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I don't see promotion or relegation ever happening. I'd guess that MLS is using the big four US leagues, not soccer leagues overseas, as the model.

I'd love pro/rel and a single table format, but it's hard to imagine either when MLS is a franchise-based system and their stated goal is 28 teams.

If I were running MLS and pro/rel wasn't an option, I'd instead look to expand way past 28 teams and regionalize into smaller sub-leagues that operated on a single table. Say you eventually went to 80 teams divided into four quadrants of the US, you could then install tournaments involving the top teams in each quadrant, for example.


The NASL is definitely comparable to the MLS as the championship to the EPL. Teams that are relegated Lose their stars and teams promoted buy stars. As stated, the money just isn't there.
RE: And fatman, when some fuck that admitted his soccer  
Jon in NYC : 8/14/2017 4:48 pm : link
In comment 13560237 Gmen1982 said:
Quote:
Experience is fucking pickup games at the park wants to say I don't know what I'm talking about I will state my resume. Guess what, I don't research, I don't know half the names of our own squad. But I know talent and good soccer when I see it.

Jon, if you use the "eye test" you would see that the pace of play, the accuracy of passes, complexity of movement is all superior in the EPL. And this doesn't mean I don't want the US to be successful in the World Cup. I just do t want to waste my time watching MLS when there's much better quality soccer on TV.


They aren't even on at the same fucking time.

No one is arguing that the MLS is better than the EPL. I'm arguing that you dismissing the MLS is shitty and fucking stupid. It's a fun league. The atmosphere is awesome and they're getting better each year. Support your local team and don't be a dickhead.
RE: RE: Yankee Stadium  
Jon in NYC : 8/14/2017 4:50 pm : link
In comment 13560252 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13560179 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


is a joke of a soccer field. It really is embarrassing.



How are they coming along on getting a new stadium?


Not very well. They were supposedly close to another location in the Bronx, but my first choice would be near Citi.

FWIW, I work with someone who used to work at NYCFC. He's adamant that Pep is coming in two years to replace Viera, who is going to go to City. We'll see, but it's an exciting time to follow the MLS.
RE: RE: Yankee Stadium  
Del Shofner : 8/14/2017 4:50 pm : link
In comment 13560252 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13560179 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


is a joke of a soccer field. It really is embarrassing.



How are they coming along on getting a new stadium?


I don't think it's going well, from what I hear. In fairness, it's NYC and a project like this is very difficult to bring to fruition.
.  
Go Terps : 8/14/2017 4:52 pm : link
I'm actually going to Portland v. Red Bulls on Friday. I'm pretty stoked to see the atmosphere there. I went to a Sounders v. Salt Lake match back in 2014...fucking spectacular.

MLS is huge here in the Pacific Northwest. I see more Timbers apparel than any other pro sport by a lot.
Pep  
Go Terps : 8/14/2017 4:56 pm : link
It wouldn't surprise me to see Pep at NYCFC...he spends a lot of time in NYC as it is.

Things are also getting a little weird in Euro soccer...the money is just absurd and the clubs don't seem to know how to handle it well. Pep himself said this week that it isn't sustainable.
RE: .  
Jon in NYC : 8/14/2017 5:17 pm : link
In comment 13560283 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I'm actually going to Portland v. Red Bulls on Friday. I'm pretty stoked to see the atmosphere there. I went to a Sounders v. Salt Lake match back in 2014...fucking spectacular.

MLS is huge here in the Pacific Northwest. I see more Timbers apparel than any other pro sport by a lot.


Very cool. It's definitely on the bucket list for me. Portland plays a really fun game to watch with Nagbe and Valeri pulling the strings.
RE: RE: .  
Go Terps : 8/14/2017 5:24 pm : link
In comment 13560313 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13560283 Go Terps said:


Quote:


I'm actually going to Portland v. Red Bulls on Friday. I'm pretty stoked to see the atmosphere there. I went to a Sounders v. Salt Lake match back in 2014...fucking spectacular.

MLS is huge here in the Pacific Northwest. I see more Timbers apparel than any other pro sport by a lot.



Very cool. It's definitely on the bucket list for me. Portland plays a really fun game to watch with Nagbe and Valeri pulling the strings.


Yeah but they are brutal at the back. Toronto just overran them this weekend. There's a chance I'm in for a 4-3 game Friday.
RE: RE: Del..  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 8/14/2017 5:42 pm : link
In comment 13560085 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13560048 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


do you think at some point the concept of relegation could happen here?

We just don't have enough lower level leagues that could be competitive IMO.

I don't think too many people know about the Lamar Hunt Open Cup, even though it seems to me like the competition has been getting stronger every year.



They just got offered oodles of money to adopt pro/rel and turned it down. It won't happen anytime soon.


When the commissioner bragged about expanding to 28 teams without relegation, I almost threw my remote at the TV.
RE: Pep  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 8/14/2017 5:54 pm : link
In comment 13560289 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It wouldn't surprise me to see Pep at NYCFC...he spends a lot of time in NYC as it is.

Things are also getting a little weird in Euro soccer...the money is just absurd and the clubs don't seem to know how to handle it well. Pep himself said this week that it isn't sustainable.


This I agree. The system is destabilized, amd Financial Fair Play is a sham.
RE: RE: RE: Del..  
Jon in NYC : 8/14/2017 6:19 pm : link
In comment 13560334 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
In comment 13560085 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 13560048 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


do you think at some point the concept of relegation could happen here?

We just don't have enough lower level leagues that could be competitive IMO.

I don't think too many people know about the Lamar Hunt Open Cup, even though it seems to me like the competition has been getting stronger every year.



They just got offered oodles of money to adopt pro/rel and turned it down. It won't happen anytime soon.



When the commissioner bragged about expanding to 28 teams without relegation, I almost threw my remote at the TV.


Yeah it's a little nuts. I mean, there's 32 NFL teams FFS.
Like I said, MLS could expand and subdivide  
Go Terps : 8/14/2017 6:35 pm : link
I think what I said above is completely feasible: 80 teams in 4 regional leagues of 20. That's enough to have a league competition and tournament(s) for the top teams in each league.

This is a country of 320 million people. That's more than the populations of Spain, UK, Italy, Germany, and France combined. Those countries support many more teams than 80, and do so with economies weaker than ours.

RE: Like I said, MLS could expand and subdivide  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 8/14/2017 6:40 pm : link
In comment 13560369 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I think what I said above is completely feasible: 80 teams in 4 regional leagues of 20. That's enough to have a league competition and tournament(s) for the top teams in each league.

This is a country of 320 million people. That's more than the populations of Spain, UK, Italy, Germany, and France combined. Those countries support many more teams than 80, and do so with economies weaker than ours.


Cyprus has subdivisions for crying out loud!
BHE  
Go Terps : 8/14/2017 6:48 pm : link
Exactly. And it's not like all those teams play at the Nou Camp.
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