Who are we rooting for?

Please no Valentino Blake.

the ideal scenario would be for Rosas to prove he can do it... but we just don't know yet.

That said, that 52-yard kick in the rain was impressive.

I don't think Josh Johnson was all that bad --

In comment 13558831 gidiefor said:

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I don't think Josh Johnson was all that bad --

Wow really? I thought he was horrendous. He was super jittery in the pocket...didnt do his line any favors. He probably had more to do with the sacks than the blocking and his lack of poise allowed him to miss Powe who Was all alone in the end zone four a good 7 seconds. The "jump pass" to Perkins was awful. If he repositiins himself to get him the ball, Perkins has a first.

In comment 13558831 gidiefor said:

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I don't think Josh Johnson was all that bad --

You know. I've said there needs to be some context when evaluating him. Johnson was up against the Steelers starting defense. Geno was facing 2s and 3s. Webb was facing absolute scrubs. I'd like to see how the QBs performed if the roles were reversed.

In comment 13558835 chopperhatch said:

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In comment 13558831 gidiefor said: Quote: I don't think Josh Johnson was all that bad -- Wow really? I thought he was horrendous. He was super jittery in the pocket...didnt do his line any favors. He probably had more to do with the sacks than the blocking and his lack of poise allowed him to miss Powe who Was all alone in the end zone four a good 7 seconds. The "jump pass" to Perkins was awful. If he repositiins himself to get him the ball, Perkins has a first.

Geno gave up an interception that led to a TD by Pittsburgh and then looked terrible -- he did not recover from it -- a lot of Johnson's problems were caused by poor assignments - he did not make any major errors.

The Giants should have scored a touchdown after Blake's interception and this wasn't on Johnson

I suspect our 5th CB and/or another S may not yet be on the roster

That said, the Giants are clearly favoring guys who can play a big role on specials...which may be why Blake and Pinkins have a leg up right now

I'm rooting for Smith, and rooting for us to keep a true FB, not just a hybrid TE. Even in a small sample size, we saw the value with the 4th and 1 conversion and the swing pass to Smith Friday night

Also rooting for Munson, looks like he's got a good shot

cut at DE?

In comment 13558842 XBRONX said:

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cut at DE?

There are lots of DE's in this league who can't play the run or pass. We have quite a few that can play the run.

with a DE anybody for an OL

out at DE that anyone would trade for? Dont tell me OO.

that Im rooting for LaCosse over Tye.

In comment 13558847 XBRONX said:

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out at DE that anyone would trade for? Dont tell me OO.

Wynn? Even without OO, we still have 6 DE. If you count OO, we have 7.

but I'm hoping for Davis over Smith and Johnson. Johnson was absolutely brutal, and hasn't thrown a pass in a regular season NFL game since 2011 - no shit his last NFL game pass attempt 2011. No clue how he's still hanging around the league.

Smith was light years better than Johnson, but I believe if Eli goes down the Giants are unlikely to win with Geno.

So instead of losing two DE's who maybe have upside for a washed up QB, stick with Davis as the backup and keep the lottery tickets.

Guys like McCants and Gillbery who get let go to keep 3rd QB's (even though Gillbery wasn't let go for a QB) don't make sense to me even if they don't pan out.

I am not sure I am rooting for anyone....

do the Giants control Rosa for several years?

I rather keep only Webb...then part with decent depth

is lock to make the team. I think OO is a lock to get cut.

In comment 13558838 gidiefor said:

Quote:

In comment 13558835 chopperhatch said: Quote: In comment 13558831 gidiefor said: Quote: I don't think Josh Johnson was all that bad -- Wow really? I thought he was horrendous. He was super jittery in the pocket...didnt do his line any favors. He probably had more to do with the sacks than the blocking and his lack of poise allowed him to miss Powe who Was all alone in the end zone four a good 7 seconds. The "jump pass" to Perkins was awful. If he repositiins himself to get him the ball, Perkins has a first. Geno gave up an interception that led to a TD by Pittsburgh and then looked terrible -- he did not recover from it -- a lot of Johnson's problems were caused by poor assignments - he did not make any major errors. The Giants should have scored a touchdown after Blake's interception and this wasn't on Johnson

The pick where Geno didnt see the Pitt defender was bad no doubt. But he looked a lot more comfortable going through his progressions than JJ.

And was the TD the Giants "shpuld have scored" the one where he tried scrambling around and got sacked? Yea, thats the play I was talking about. JJ zeroed in on ONE side of the field and missed Powe jumping up and down waving his arms wide open in the end zone. Pretty sure the next play, Johnson went right to his first read a guy that had defenders draped all over him at the 8 yard line.

I will gladly take Geno and his warts because he will actually give himself a chance to succeed.

In comment 13558840 mfsd said:

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Even in a small sample size, we saw the value with the 4th and 1 conversion and the swing pass to Smith Friday night

And again, this was another one of JJ's screw ups. He threw that ball to the inside of Smith when he was running to the sideline, forcing Smith to stop his momentum and allow the defender to gain more ground and stop him short of the first. Yes, we got it anyways later, but that could have been interesting if Smith had gotten past that LB and started rumbling towards DBs.

If I was the Giants I would not waste another preseason game snap for Johnson.

In comment 13558855 XBRONX said:

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is lock to make the team. I think OO is a lock to get cut.

So you're saying the Giants will carry 6 DE?

Moss will get the automatic draftee spot, no matter how bad he looks in practice or preseason.

In comment 13558847 XBRONX said:

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out at DE that anyone would trade for? Dont tell me OO.

I dont know what you want to hear then. OO cant stay on the field and is as blah as they come in a pass rush. Wynn works his ass off, is always battling and can play specials. He reminds me a lot of Dave Tollefson(sp?). DT had more pass rush, but Wynn is better against the run.

He's competing against LaCrosse (4 TE or 3 TE, 1 FB). Devin Taylor over a 10th DB. Either 10 DL (4 DT, 6 DE) or 10 DB (5th S)

is a very steady player versus the run.

is the Geno Smith you get -- he did the same stuff with the Jets -- brilliant for a period then throws the ball up for grabs and the game proceeds to get out of control.

Johnson had a few bad plays -- but he did enough to get a TD and a field goal in his 1 and a half quarters and made no major game changing mistakes

Johnson is a much better game manager right now than either Smith or Davis -- Davis was not under center by the way for one snap -- he's a work in progress. Right now you can not turn the team over to him -- you only do that if Eli's career is over.

Johnson and Smith likely bounce around as 3rd QBs or FAs most of the season. If Eli goes down you can find one of them on the waiver wire is my guess.

turn the team over to Webb, but it's unlikely the Giants would.

The Patriots turned their team over to 3rd round rookie Jacoby Brissett last year for a couple games last year.

For me, what it boils down to is can you win with Geno (I have already concluded you cannot win with Johnson), and if the answer is yes then the Giants hold on to him while Webb develops, if the answer is probably not (like I think it is) then it's a waste of a roster spot (one that the Giants are likely to use on him though).

In comment 13558869 BillT said:

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He's competing against LaCrosse (4 TE or 3 TE, 1 FB). Devin Taylor over a 10th DB. Either 10 DL (4 DT, 6 DE) or 10 DB (5th S)

lol. He's clearly competing against both. They are the only two FB on the roster so yes, they are absolutely competing against each other. They are also competing against many other players for a FB making the roster at all, I get that.

Coach likes to manage the game -- he doesn't want any turnovers. He wants to manage the Duke. He plays for field position and appreciates conservative play if the rythym is not working.

That's Josh Johnson to a tee -- and I think Coach would much rather see a guy that's going to manage the game as opposed to giving the game a way -- which is Geno's MO

Think about it -- Johnson has at least 4 plays in the first quarter where there were serious blown assignments and does not turn the ball over -- does not lose his cool at all -- continues to play fairly steady -- further more -- one of the blown assignments would have been a touchdown -- (Lewis steps out of the end zone and then makes the catch)

Geno's first opportunity to deal with a blown assignment is an interception - then things went south after that - he lost command of the team and everyone seemed tentative after that.

Webb also lost it after he made an error.

4 TEs and the 1 FB. Engram is listed as a TE, but let's face it, he's both a TE and a big WR.

In comment 13558882 gidiefor said:

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Coach likes to manage the game -- he doesn't want any turnovers. He wants to manage the Duke. He plays for field position and appreciates conservative play if the rythym is not working. That's Josh Johnson to a tee -- and I think Coach would much rather see a guy that's going to manage the game as opposed to giving the game a way -- which is Geno's MO Think about it -- Johnson has at least 4 plays in the first quarter where there were serious blown assignments and does not turn the ball over -- does not lose his cool at all -- continues to play fairly steady -- further more -- one of the blown assignments would have been a touchdown -- (Lewis steps out of the end zone and then makes the catch) Geno's first opportunity to deal with a blown assignment is an interception - then things went south after that - he lost command of the team and everyone seemed tentative after that. Webb also lost it after he made an error.

I can see that approach with the Giants defense, if it's playing still at an elite level, you just need someone to keep you in the game, but if Josh Johnson is such an accomplished game manager why didn't QB desperate teams like Denver or Houston with all-world defenses give him a chance.

I wasn't exaggerating, Josh Johnson has not thrown a regular season NFL game pass in 6 years. 2011 is the last season he threw a pass. He hasn't been on an NFL active roster since 2013.

I think you are overrating Josh Johnson.


And I agree about Geno, his MO was on full display against the Steelers. That's what he does.

Which is why I think the door is open for Webb if he can get some training camp reps.

My point is if the Giants can't win with Johnson or Smith or Webb, then you keep Webb.

until I took a very close look at the first quarter. His play was really underrated in the first quarter, and if you add up the miscues he played well enough to win, and well enough to be trusted with the ball.

If Marshall, OBJ and Sheppard are in the game -- I think you get different results than what happened -- and he used Ellison and Smith very effectively

I think the practice squad can serve as an extension to the offensive side of the roster, because guys like Chad Wheeler, Matt LaCosse, Shane Smith, Darius Powe and Travis Rudolph are unlikely to get claimed off waivers unless they do something notable in the remaining preseason games. If you cut a Devin Taylor or Kerry Wynn, that's it: they are gone for good. Even Owa Odighizuwa, who is subject to waivers, would probably get claimed by a team that liked his college tape. (How many chances has Damontre Moore had?)

The easiest path to 24 on offense is two QBs; I understand the reluctance there. I wouldn't rule out eight OL, though nine is likely. And obviously there are a lot of possible permutations in the RB/FB/TE area.

Josh Johnson won't turn the ball over.

In his entire career he has 5 TD's 10 INT and 10 fumbles. Not exactly a portrait of "taking care of the duke" why do you think he's safer for some reason?

In comment 13558898 pjcas18 said:

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Josh Johnson won't turn the ball over. In his entire career he has 5 TD's 10 INT and 10 fumbles. Not exactly a portrait of "taking care of the duke" why do you think he's safer for some reason?

all I'm saying is that on Friday -- he played safer and in a way I trust better than Geno or Webb

He was frantic in the pocket and start scatting around at the first signs of the pocket shifting. He would look dow field for two reads, run around and MAYBE try and take another peek downfield. But at that point, all his receivers are watching where he was planning to go so they could bblock for him.

Smith looked more than competent his furst drive. Yes, that was an extraordinarily bad pick he threw. Our starter also happens to do that a ton. Geno is at least decisive and throws a pretty n8ce deep ball.

Josh Johnson has not thrown an nfl pass since 2011 as pj said....let that sink in for a minute.

If no improvement is shown by either I am all in favor for just keeping Webb on the roster.

In comment 13558899 gidiefor said:

Quote:

In comment 13558898 pjcas18 said: Quote: Josh Johnson won't turn the ball over. In his entire career he has 5 TD's 10 INT and 10 fumbles. Not exactly a portrait of "taking care of the duke" why do you think he's safer for some reason? all I'm saying is that on Friday -- he played safer and in a way I trust better than Geno or Webb

Sure, but I was looking for different things from all of them and had different expectations.

you can say Smith went against the Steeler's 2's or Webb went against guys who will be on practice squads, but conversely Geno played with the Giants 2's and 3's and Webb played with guys who will appear on practice squads.

So it's all relative.

All I can tell you is in watching the three QB's Johnson gave me the least confidence he can move the team. when you say he's a game manager I don't even really know what that means, to me game manager QB's are on teams with great defenses (check) and strong running games (no check) so if that's all Johnson is, he doesn't have a role with the Giants, maybe the Chiefs can sign him to back up Alex Smith.

Geno looked better, but locked on to his primary receiver almost exclusively (seemed to at least, I don't re-watch pre-season games normally) and turned the ball over, and Webb showed a strong arm, poise that I didn't expect, quick release, and quick decision making.

Webb reminded me of a young Kerry Collins. Geno has talent, can the Giants control it? Johnson should be a camp body until they don't need camp bodies.

IMO. I respect yours, but disagree with it.

In comment 13558897 Big Blue Blogger said:

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If you cut a Devin Taylor or Kerry Wynn, that's it: they are gone for good.

And then they would be stuck with only five DE's, tragedy!

I think it's more likely they keep 26 offensive players than 26 defensive players. Chad Wheeler and Matt LaCosse are more likely to become future starters in the NFL than whoever would be the 6th DE, 6th LB, or 10th DB.

In comment 13558899 gidiefor said:

Quote:

In comment 13558898 pjcas18 said: Quote: Josh Johnson won't turn the ball over. In his entire career he has 5 TD's 10 INT and 10 fumbles. Not exactly a portrait of "taking care of the duke" why do you think he's safer for some reason? all I'm saying is that on Friday -- he played safer and in a way I trust better than Geno or Webb

If by "safer" ypu mean won't go downfield and let the receiver try and make a play and if thats what you want if Eli goes down, then sure.

I guess if its a game or two against a weak team with a weak D, MAYBE I could see your point.

But also keep in mimd Geno was playing his first live action in a new system with mostly back ups.

Either way, I dont think we have seen enough of either.

Except - Munson at LB

I would like to see Smith kept and Lacosse on PS
DD over Blake
Trade a DE
Lewis not on team
Pinkins to make team

Possibly 6 LB, 10 DL, 5 CB and 4 safeties (cut Berle)
LB = Castillas, Kennard, Goodson, Munson, Robinson, Herz
DE = OV, JPP, Okwara, Wynn, Moss, Taylor

Geno Smith

Shane Smith - Josh Huesman. About equal

Darius Powe - Good size and speed. Seems to have learned how to play wr.

Devin Taylor

JT Thomas

Donte Deyon

Aldrick Rosas

Keep three tight ends (the choices are obvious) and a fullback. Put a te on the practice squad.

"with 1s" either unless you count Marshall for exactly 2 plays. Odel and Shepard were out. Seems like both QB got to play with Ellison and Engram. O line is the only difference but the starting o line is a question mark anyway.

Playing against the Steelers starting defense, which is generally one of the best defenses in football, is significant IMO.

Eli, Geno, Webb
Perkins, Gallman, Darkwa, Vereen, Smith (FB)
OBJ, Marshall, Shepard, Harris, Rudolph
Ellison, Engram, LaCosse, Adams
Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry, Hart, Fluker, Jones, Wheeler, Bisnowaty
JPP, Vernon, Okwara, Wynn, Moss
Harrison, Bromley, Thomas, Tomlinson
Casillas, Goodson, Kennard, Robinson, Herzlich, Munson
Collins, Thompson, Adams, Berhe
Jenkins, Apple, DRC, Hunter, Blake
Wing, Rosas, DeOssie

I dont think Munson makes it...

My 53

Eli, Geno, Webb
Perkins, Gallman, Darkwa, Vereen, Smith (FB)
OBJ, Marshall, Shepard, Harris, King, Powe
Ellison, Engram, LaCosse, Adams
Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry, Hart, Fluker, Jones, Bisnowaty
JPP, Vernon, Okwara, Wynn, Moss, Taylor
Harrison, Bromley, Thomas, Tomlinson
Casillas, Goodson, Kennard, Robinson, Herzlich
Collins, Thompson, Adams, Berhe
Jenkins, Apple, DRC, Hunter, Deyon
Wing, Rosas, DeOssie

In comment 13558831 gidiefor said:

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I don't think Josh Johnson was all that bad --

I think much is being made for a few bad mistakes in the first preseason game. I can all but guarantee the Giants aren't saying bye bye birdie to Johnson just yet despite BBI saying bye bye birdie.

Plus, Geno got worse as the game progressed. I also don't understand bbi's hope that geno wins the job. He scares the shit out of me. He should scare the shit out of everyone. If he makes it good for him but I'd rather not see him playing football in big moments here.

Geno (yikes) over Johnson-- Johnsons's performance the other night was possibly the worst qb play ive ever seen.

Darkwa over Draughn & Abdullah---Always been a Darkwa fan, runs hard, falls forward. Draughn is hurt and Abdullah sucked in scrub time.

Smith at FB

Lewis Jr to get cut.Anyone over him.

Adams and Lacosse for the 3&4? TE spot

Wynn to be the DL rotational guy (DT/DE)

Tomlinson to start over Bromley. Id like them to have Wynn at DT and not waste a roster spot on Thomas.

Deayon or someone else over Blake

Im actually rooting for Andrew Adams to start over Darian Thompson. Adams earned it last year, even if he doesnt "start" they wont be able to keep him off the field. I want Thompson to play but I think Adams has shown more, to this point.

Rosas over Nugent just bc id like to have a long(er) term solution at K

In comment 13558874 Lawrence_Taylor_56 said:

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Johnson and Smith likely bounce around as 3rd QBs or FAs most of the season. If Eli goes down you can find one of them on the waiver wire is my guess.

Me too. I'd rather use that roster spot to hold onto our collection of DEs or TEs. But that depends on them giving Webb a legitimate shot to impress. I have zero faith in Johnson or Smith winning a game or 2 if (GOD forbid) Eli was out for a short time, even with our defense. In addition, I doubt these guys would get any offers outside of teams trying to ply info from them.

based on what? Injury prone and stinks in coverage.

in practice. There is no chance in a million years they are rolling with him as the only backup QB. It's just not happening.

In comment 13558958 XBRONX said:

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based on what? Injury prone and stinks in coverage.

Based on lack of competition. Safety could be a position in which we add a veteran cut from another team. Same thing goes for the 6th LB and 5th CB. If I were a betting man, I would bet that at least one of the 53 to make the final roster will be someone who is not on the 90-man roster today.