Danaerys gives the remnants of Jaime's army an offer they can't refuse. How do they react, and what's her next move? Do the Dothraki head for King's Landing, or is it time to regroup? What's eating Varys and Tyrion - misgivings about the use of dragonfire, or the real existential threat approaching the Wall? Did Jaime sink or swim? And why is Cersei so confident?
The episode title suggests a pivot to the North. Should be fun.
I can't say for sure obviously but I doubt the book is that matter-of-fact about it.
I watched with 5 others tonight and as soon as I saw them swim to shore I said "fuck this shit". Pretty much ruined the next 59 minutes for me. Next weeks episode can't come soon enough, they took an insane amount of short cuts this episode.
I really don't like the strategy to try to align with Cersei all of the sudden. That seems ridiculous in light of everything that's been happening.
Highlights were..
The Tarly's getting exterminated.
Littlefinger out scheming Arya to potentially turn her against Sansa.
The return of Gendry
The fuck off band of merry men marching to take on the walkers in the north. lol
Whatever it is it's likely not important and manufactured by Littlefinger. Its a trap.
I can't say for sure obviously but I doubt the book is that matter-of-fact about it.
That was crazy. I was like.. Is Sam going to connect that somehow? And nope... It was more of something for the audience and if you weren't paying close attention you might have missed it.
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What was on the scroll Arya found in Littlefinger's room?
Whatever it is it's likely not important and manufactured by Littlefinger. Its a trap.
Its the letter Joffrey made Sansa write to Robb after Ned was killed
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What was on the scroll Arya found in Littlefinger's room?
Whatever it is it's likely not important and manufactured by Littlefinger. Its a trap.
it was the letter they had Sansa write to Rob after Ned was killed. A nice trap by Littlefinger to start a family problem. Hopefully John was smart enough to send a raven to Winterfell that he was going to the wall
The note cersei forced Sansa to write home back in season 2 when she was prisoner.
I agree -- the whole Sansa arya and littlefinger storyline is way too rushed and isn't working as a result. They needed 30 episodes to do this right not 14.
I do hope Dany ends up with Jorah not jon. I know incest happens in this world but it's still creepy
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In comment 13559247 WillVAB said:
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What was on the scroll Arya found in Littlefinger's room?
Whatever it is it's likely not important and manufactured by Littlefinger. Its a trap.
Its the letter Joffrey made Sansa write to Robb after Ned was killed
Ah I missed that part. Thanks. Knew it was a trap either way.
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Weird how they were able to safely swim away from that close to the battle, lol.
I watched with 5 others tonight and as soon as I saw them swim to shore I said "fuck this shit". Pretty much ruined the next 59 minutes for me. Next weeks episode can't come soon enough, they took an insane amount of short cuts this episode.
Ruined the rest of the episode? Thats dumb.
The subject matter it irrelevant. Them surviving like that is laughable. Just bad writing plain and simple.
Favorite part of this episode was Davos haggling with the guards. He's an awesome character.
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In comment 13559201 PhiPsi125 said:
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Weird how they were able to safely swim away from that close to the battle, lol.
I watched with 5 others tonight and as soon as I saw them swim to shore I said "fuck this shit". Pretty much ruined the next 59 minutes for me. Next weeks episode can't come soon enough, they took an insane amount of short cuts this episode.
Ruined the rest of the episode? Thats dumb.
Whats dumb was that sloppy writing job. I was being somewhat facetious but that was laugh out loud bad.
There's still the question of whether Bran knows, since he seems to have access to everything. Anyway, this is one reveal that doesn't have to come through Bran.
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In comment 13559209 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 13559201 PhiPsi125 said:
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Weird how they were able to safely swim away from that close to the battle, lol.
I watched with 5 others tonight and as soon as I saw them swim to shore I said "fuck this shit". Pretty much ruined the next 59 minutes for me. Next weeks episode can't come soon enough, they took an insane amount of short cuts this episode.
Ruined the rest of the episode? Thats dumb.
Whats dumb was that sloppy writing job. I was being somewhat facetious but that was laugh out loud bad.
Big deal. It happened. Move past it. The show has some flaws...but that was a small thing thats easy to ignore.
I guess I'm used to watching the walking dead and seeing so much dumb shit, that a show like this is hard to complain about.
But I enjoyed most of the rest of the episode.
It sucks that everything is rushed now, but they put themselves in that place. Dany literally said "I have fewer enemies today than I did yesterday." So they're traveling to different parts of Westeros in modern-day airline schedules.
I thought Ser Davos said, "Fermented crap." Haha.
Tormund asking if Jon brought "the big woman" cracked me up.
Sam's storyline continues to bore me. But I enjoyed watching his prick dad get chatted.
Dany wants to bang Jon so badly.
I really like Arya, but her criticism of Sansa seemed a bit strong. Sansa listened...and defended Jon. Arya wants everyone beheaded?
And Cersei and Jamie are expecting! Congratulations!
I know i am. And I'm just expressing my opinion.
You haven't seen any bumps in the road for the Stark family?
Earlier this season Littlefinger was informed that the Maester of Winterfell kept record of all scrolls that came in. He knew of this one's existence because he was in the room when Sandals wrote it.
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works. Everything falling in place for the Starks can't continue forever. There's going to be a bump in the road and I hope it's due to him.
You haven't seen any bumps in the road for the Stark family?
Lol
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works. Everything falling in place for the Starks can't continue forever. There's going to be a bump in the road and I hope it's due to him.
You haven't seen any bumps in the road for the Stark family?
Since the reunion at Winterfell? No. Things have been falling in place nicely for them since Sansa and Jon reunited, I can't see that continuing for much longer.
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In comment 13559316 UConn4523 said:
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works. Everything falling in place for the Starks can't continue forever. There's going to be a bump in the road and I hope it's due to him.
You haven't seen any bumps in the road for the Stark family?
Lol
Yes, I clearly meant nothing bad has ever happened to the Stark family..
Fuck that straight-running brat.
Fuck that straight-running brat.
No Jon is dating or maybe engaged to the wildling from a few seasons back. 'You know nothing jon snow'
Based on today's episode it seems dany and Jorah may end up together. At least I hope so - poor guys been in the friend zone for 7 years now
The writers are doing everything they can to avoid it, but you just know this ends with Dany wiping out the red keep with her dragons, and this will all be for naught. Just feels even more forced after last weeks episode.
Fuck that straight-running brat.
I mean.. I think its assumed they are conversing outside of the only few minute clips we have with them.
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Dany and Jon have banged many times off the set. Probably adds an interesting dynamic. lol.
No Jon is dating or maybe engaged to the wildling from a few seasons back. 'You know nothing jon snow'
Based on today's episode it seems dany and Jorah may end up together. At least I hope so - poor guys been in the friend zone for 7 years now
Yeah I know but I thought I read for a minute in between he was dating her also. I tend to believe if there is smoke there is a fire with that sort of thing.
Fuck that straight-running brat.
Hahaha amazing. Didn't even get "and Rickon?" followed by sad silence.
The writers are doing everything they can to avoid it, but you just know this ends with Dany wiping out the red keep with her dragons, and this will all be for naught. Just feels even more forced after last weeks episode.
Yeah screw how Jaime came up out of the river. Literally has nothing to do with the story. This on the other hand is pretty bad IMO. I want somebody to explain this to me in a rational way because Im just not getting it. The only thing I can think of is that Tyrion is placing all of his faith in Jaime but why would Daenyrys follow that?
Basically they are all going to fight the dead ... win ... and then cersei is going to ambush them after (weaker and tired) with the golden company. At which point hopefully Jaime kills her.
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And fight them together side by side? Sorry. Im just not buying it. Daenyrys would sooner just fly a dragon over Kings Landing and burn Cersei to a crisp before she would do something so stupid.
Yes. That was badass.
You don't do all that training and get suckered in that easy
Varys: This is a sealed scroll for the King of the North!
Tyrion: (pause) What does it say?
Varys: Nothing good...
You don't do all that training and get suckered in that easy
I think 100%. I would be truly disappointed if Arya is fooled by Littlefonger.
How did Jorah get onto the island?
Why Dany barely blinked when her dragon pretty much kissed Jon?
I guess the scrollls pretty much cement Jon as legit heir to the iron throne. Danny stakes her entire claim on the inheritance; consistency says she relinquishes it without question.
I liked that sequence up until Drogon flew away and Dany and Jon were just like, "Cool animals, huh?"
You don't do all that training and get suckered in that easy
That SHOULD be right. But I'm not sure it will be.
But I don't understand why Davos would feel the need to look him up in KL and also take him with him to Dragonstone.
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and not the other way?
You don't do all that training and get suckered in that easy
I think 100%. I would be truly disappointed if Arya is fooled by Littlefonger.
Littlefinger is the biggest schemer in the entire show and has been doing it for decades. Yeah, Arya is a badass fighter now but I doubt she would be able to out maneuver Littlefinger that easily. I look at it the complete opposite.
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In comment 13559397 montanagiant said:
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and not the other way?
You don't do all that training and get suckered in that easy
I think 100%. I would be truly disappointed if Arya is fooled by Littlefonger.
Littlefinger is the biggest schemer in the entire show and has been doing it for decades. Yeah, Arya is a badass fighter now but I doubt she would be able to out maneuver Littlefinger that easily. I look at it the complete opposite.
He also views her as a child with sword skills. he has no idea she was trained by the Faceless Men
But I don't understand why Davos would feel the need to look him up in KL and also take him with him to Dragonstone.
He was essentially just "hiding out in plain site" doing what he was doing before. It was still dangerous for him to be there. Seemed to me Davos was just walking the streets, not necessarily looking for him. He even referenced that he could because it had been so long and none of the guards would recognize him. Don't think there was any motive until after they met again,
Unless I'm misremembering, there was no sex between Jaime and Cercei in the books, especially this late into things. By this point, he had moved on in his life; in general, he's not so much Cercei's tool as he is in the show. So, to me, it's unlikely that the pregnancy occurs in the books and it's an interesting (maybe) divergence. Yes?
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In comment 13559402 Chris in Philly said:
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In comment 13559397 montanagiant said:
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and not the other way?
You don't do all that training and get suckered in that easy
I think 100%. I would be truly disappointed if Arya is fooled by Littlefonger.
Littlefinger is the biggest schemer in the entire show and has been doing it for decades. Yeah, Arya is a badass fighter now but I doubt she would be able to out maneuver Littlefinger that easily. I look at it the complete opposite.
He also views her as a child with sword skills. he has no idea she was trained by the Faceless Men
True. I still think as far as a grand schemer though, Littlefinger wears the crown. She literally deceives but he does it behind the scene. Guess we'll see but I think Littlefinger has her on this one.
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Beric later on.
But I don't understand why Davos would feel the need to look him up in KL and also take him with him to Dragonstone.
He was essentially just "hiding out in plain site" doing what he was doing before. It was still dangerous for him to be there. Seemed to me Davos was just walking the streets, not necessarily looking for him. He even referenced that he could because it had been so long and none of the guards would recognize him. Don't think there was any motive until after they met again,
Cersei is still the biggest POS on the show with zero concern beyond her own wants and desire. I totally think she lied about the pregnancy to get Jaime back in the fold.
The Arya/Littlefinger/Sansa storyline is really intriguing. The Starks' life experiences has hurt their closeness and LF is trying to take advantage. But how does this get solved for him? He can't honestly expect to have Arya get killed or Sansa to approve that.
Gendry!!! I loved the gathering at the end and all of the reasons they have to care about and hate each other.
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In comment 13559416 Bill L said:
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Beric later on.
But I don't understand why Davos would feel the need to look him up in KL and also take him with him to Dragonstone.
He was essentially just "hiding out in plain site" doing what he was doing before. It was still dangerous for him to be there. Seemed to me Davos was just walking the streets, not necessarily looking for him. He even referenced that he could because it had been so long and none of the guards would recognize him. Don't think there was any motive until after they met again,
im not sure about that. When he left Tyrion, he said he had his own mission in KL. Then when he met Gendry he said he checked brothels and something else but should have k own to check the armorers.
I'll have to rewatch it. You could be right. Let's suppose your right and he has been looking for him. What significance do you think that makes? Gendry has no family... He's the last Baratheon we know of. He saved his life. Maybe he feels he needed to find him to look after him?
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In comment 13559402 Chris in Philly said:
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In comment 13559397 montanagiant said:
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and not the other way?
You don't do all that training and get suckered in that easy
I think 100%. I would be truly disappointed if Arya is fooled by Littlefonger.
Littlefinger is the biggest schemer in the entire show and has been doing it for decades. Yeah, Arya is a badass fighter now but I doubt she would be able to out maneuver Littlefinger that easily. I look at it the complete opposite.
He also views her as a child with sword skills. he has no idea she was trained by the Faceless Men
Right. And also it is written and directed as littlefinger playing the con, as usual, but at this late stage I feel like that is the set up for his undoing.
I agree with the general sentiment...some good tidbits in an otherwise weaker, but expected filler episode to set up a strong finish
Bronn and Jamie swimming to safety? Meh, but not unexpected
I'm surprised drogon and Jon bonding didn't trigger more questions from Daenerys
As others posted, characters like Davos, Bronn, and Tormund continue to deliver great dialogue and acting to rescue some otherwise weak scenes.
But I'm kind of disappointed at what Tyrions character has been turned into. He's essentially been a babbling fool most of this season. Hoping for a strong finish for him
Some may disagree, but I loved the new northern posse coming together at the end. Think about where all those characters started out...Jon, Tormund, Jorah, Beric, Thoros, Gendry and the Hound
This article doesn't claimthey dated. The article states' "it's been rumored but never substantiated."
That's a far cry, from what you want us to believe the article to justify.
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But there are a number of articles like this claiming Emilia Clarke and Kit Harrington dated a couple years back. Link - ( New Window )
This article doesn't claimthey dated. The article states' "it's been rumored but never substantiated."
That's a far cry, from what you want us to believe the article to justify.
I'm not saying it proves anything, I'm saying there have been rumors. You want go down a long road of Hollywood gossip, be my guest. I know I started it, but I'll gladly bow out now.
The look Jamie had when Cersei told him not to betray her again.
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Beric later on.
But I don't understand why Davos would feel the need to look him up in KL and also take him with him to Dragonstone.
He was essentially just "hiding out in plain site" doing what he was doing before. It was still dangerous for him to be there. Seemed to me Davos was just walking the streets, not necessarily looking for him. He even referenced that he could because it had been so long and none of the guards would recognize him. Don't think there was any motive until after they met again,
Gendry can forge the dragonglass into weapons better than anyone. Thats why Davos most likely was searching for Gendry
Anyway, for a guy who has never seen combat or formal training, Gendry is pretty handy with a war hammer. Is that an inherited skill? And since we're nitpicking, did anyone else want Davos to reclaim his gold before boarding the boat?
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In comment 13559416 Bill L said:
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Beric later on.
But I don't understand why Davos would feel the need to look him up in KL and also take him with him to Dragonstone.
He was essentially just "hiding out in plain site" doing what he was doing before. It was still dangerous for him to be there. Seemed to me Davos was just walking the streets, not necessarily looking for him. He even referenced that he could because it had been so long and none of the guards would recognize him. Don't think there was any motive until after they met again,
Gendry can forge the dragonglass into weapons better than anyone. Thats why Davos most likely was searching for Gendry
Was going to say the same. Gendry is known for being one of the best blacksmiths in Westeros. Davos wanted to find him for that reason.
I hope Cersei isn't pregnant and is using it to manipulate Jaime. Another baby at this point in the game would be out of place. I can just picture Cersei not looking pregnant despite the sped up pace.
Sansa may be feeling weird/conflicted, but she's not going to cross her family for Littlefinger.
Yup, this.
This isn't a new theory either.
Arya is in danger, but I doubt Martin would approve killing her before her list is complete. Brienne could die fulfilling her vow to protect the "girls". Beric might die again. No biggie there. Thoros's time seems near too. Will the team need his resurrection skills? Melisandre is better at it anyway. He does provide some laughs, though.
Anyway, for a guy who has never seen combat or formal training, Gendry is pretty handy with a war hammer. Is that an inherited skill? And since we're nitpicking, did anyone else want Davos to reclaim his gold before boarding the boat?
No spoilers from me. I barely respond on these threads and I find no pleasure in spoiling things for others. I just thought it was very obvious
In addition to the personal aspects of that, it would mean the end of the Baratheon line, and he's still loyal to the memory of Stsnnis, so he'd want to guard against that.
Finally, for the show, the thought of Robert's soon repeating Dad's prowess with a war hammer along side Ned's "son" is just too much fun.
Littlefinger isn't as smart as he thinks he is, either. Many characters are well aware of his schemes and plots by this point. Matter of fact, there's a character in Winterfell who would be likely to know everything he's up to.
What was the point of the Maesters of the Citadel not telling Samwell about his father and brother. I don't think it would have motivated him to do anything, I know he hated his father (or at least had no love for him not sure about Dickon) but I think them adding that line to the show might have had a purpose.
He wants the throne. Sansa and Arya together puts him on the outside looking in. If Arya hates Sansa and it erupts, Sansa will send her away or worse. He wants to marry Sansa and rule. I think he's been pretty clear about it.
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im not following that... a divide between the sisters but then what?
He wants the throne. Sansa and Arya together puts him on the outside looking in. If Arya hates Sansa and it erupts, Sansa will send her away or worse. He wants to marry Sansa and rule. I think he's been pretty clear about it.
gotcha... fucking guy looks like an SVU case waiting to happen
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Combined with Tyrion taking about how Tywin wanted him dead, are further hints that Tyrion is a Targareyen.
Yup, this.
This isn't a new theory either.
I was getting some push back on it last week on the thread.
Yup good point, they quickly glossed over that. I'd find it hard to believe Qyburn hadn't dipped every scorpion arrow in some kind of poison
In addition to the personal aspects of that, it would mean the end of the Baratheon line, and he's still loyal to the memory of Stsnnis, so he'd want to guard against that.
Finally, for the show, the thought of Robert's soon repeating Dad's prowess with a war hammer along side Ned's "son" is just too much fun.
Not to be a book spoiler - given how far from the books we are at this point i figure it's safe, but my apologies in advance to anyone offended, but gendry is really a merging of two Baratheon bastards, gendry and edric storm.
Davos was close to Edric. And Melisandre in the books was actually urging Stannis to burn Edric as a sacrifice since although he was a bastard he was noble born with Robert the father and I forget the mother - but he was an acknowledged bastard not one to a whore from fleabottom like Gendry.
It was edrics blood (from leeching) that was used in the ritual by melisandre to curse Joffrey and Robb Stark (both died shortly after - their deaths though were completely unrelated unless you believe in the lord of the light).
it was Davos who saved Edric from Melisandre and Stannis and stashed him, so this plot in the show is sort of the refuge of the merging of Edric and Gendry IMO, because Davos had no connection to Gendry in the books that I recall or that I recall from the show, did he?
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of the time. no wound treatment etc. I thought that dragon was going to die
Yup good point, they quickly glossed over that. I'd find it hard to believe Qyburn hadn't dipped every scorpion arrow in some kind of poison
Dragon-killing poison? That hasn't ever been established as a thing.
What was the deal with Qyburn in Cersei's chambers? Did he impregnate her? Maybe with some kind of reanimated joffrey or something or some targaeyen blood so she could "birth" dragons?
normally I wouldn't have paid attention to a throw away line, but didn't seem like throw-away the way Jamie asked it. like he was surprised Qyburn would be there.
What was the deal with Qyburn in Cersei's chambers? Did he impregnate her? Maybe with some kind of reanimated joffrey or something or some targaeyen blood so she could "birth" dragons?
normally I wouldn't have paid attention to a throw away line, but didn't seem like throw-away the way Jamie asked it. like he was surprised Qyburn would be there.
I don't think there are throwaway lines in this show.
You know some shit is going to go down with Qyburn and the pregnancy.
I think the baby isn't Jamies, which is why he ultimately kills her.
What was the point of the Maesters of the Citadel not telling Samwell about his father and brother. I don't think it would have motivated him to do anything, I know he hated his father (or at least had no love for him not sure about Dickon) but I think them adding that line to the show might have had a purpose.
Either it's important that he's the senior surviving Tarley male, or this just wraps up to loose end of Sam stealing the sword (because no one is left to care). Also sets up the drama of him finding out. GOT LOVES this kind of reveal.
In addition to the personal aspects of that, it would mean the end of the Baratheon line, and he's still loyal to the memory of Stsnnis, so he'd want to guard against that.
Finally, for the show, the thought of Robert's soon repeating Dad's prowess with a war hammer along side Ned's "son" is just too much fun.
I think I agree with this take. If he were really brought over only for his mining and weapon building skills, why take him north for the expedition within 24 hours of arriving at dragonstone?
We're going to lose a number of that expedition next week which is too bad because all those characters bring something to the table in their unique ways.
Spies or no spies the only people who knew about that were Davos, Tyrian and Bronn. It's far more likely Dany has a leak in her cabinet. Certainly possible Varys was sent there to monitor way back given the emerging threat.
It's been bugging me for a while about Dickon because he seemed so familiar. Finally remembered that he was Billy on Black Sails.
If there is a pause in the battle between Cersei and Dany, that would work better for the story. They can wrap up the battle with the Night King in the next 5 episodes or so. Then the final 3 would be all about who will be sitting on the Iron Throne at the end.
Plus I know next season will only be 6 episodes but I'm really wishing for a 2 hour finale to wrap up all the storylines!
We know Cersei and Jaime did the nasty at least once before he marched off to Highgarden. Did she conceive, or did she just seduce him to set up the pregnancy story? Could go either way on that one.
He sounds genuine in his remorse for being a party to Aerys atrocities and sitting by and simply watching.
He's always proclaimed to want peace and what's best for "the realm" no idea how anyone can rationalize a Cersei-led Westeros is the best thing for the realm.
Cersei is at least as ruthless as Aerys.
though who really knows Varys true intentions, he's slippery like Littlefinger.
I suppose they are planning spin-offs (or prequels, not exactly sure of the plan)
Damn shame we're likely about to lose a few next week but it should be thrilling. Figure Jon and the Hound are safe (though you never know), everybody else is fair game
Damn shame we're likely about to lose a few next week but it should be thrilling. Figure Jon and the Hound are safe (though you never know), everybody else is fair game
Yeah. 2-3 seasons ago you'd have had that group stretched over half a season, delivering pure TV joy. Now it will resolve itself in 1-2 episode.
I find this season's staggering pace off putting. The "15 episode left" excuse doesnt make sense. This isnt 4am in college with a paper due at 11. They should have paced it better.
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The threat of the white walkers was the very first scene of the very first episode. If and when a battle finally comes between the living and the dead, it really can't be something handled in one or two episodes, can it? But there are only 8 episodes left, and so many Westeros storylines are still wide open.
Given how rushed everything has felt over the last 15 or so episodes, I guess we should expect the show to take even greater liberties regarding travel time, circulation of news and information around Westeros, cutting character corners, etc.
It would be a shame if an all-time great series like this one ends on a "What the fuck was that?!" kind of note. But doubt is beginning to creep in for me that they'll end this series with a fantastic finish.
Damn shame we're likely about to lose a few next week but it should be thrilling. Figure Jon and the Hound are safe (though you never know), everybody else is fair game
Agree, and it's an odd collection, and the reason they're going is bizarre and completely unpredictable IMO, I mentioned as much earlier (am I missing anyone?):
pjcas18 : 8:16 am : link : reply
I did but if someone told you several seasons ago (all the way back to the the earliest point say that you have met all these characters) that one day Jon Snow, the Brotherhood without Banners (including the Hound), Jorah Mormont, Davos Seaworth, Gendry, and Tormund Giantsbane (am I missing anyone?) would together venture to the other side of the wall in hopes of catching a live wight to bring to cersei lannister and prove their existence that's some pretty wild plot changes.
+1, that interaction between them all was fantastic.
The threat of the white walkers was the very first scene of the very first episode. If and when a battle finally comes between the living and the dead, it really can't be something handled in one or two episodes, can it? But there are only 8 episodes left, and so many Westeros storylines are still wide open.
Given how rushed everything has felt over the last 15 or so episodes, I guess we should expect the show to take even greater liberties regarding travel time, circulation of news and information around Westeros, cutting character corners, etc.
It would be a shame if an all-time great series like this one ends on a "What the fuck was that?!" kind of note. But doubt is beginning to creep in for me that they'll end this series with a fantastic finish.
What Im expecting:
Not really, Rhaegar was killed before Aerys so I'm not sure how throne succession works, but since Rhaegar was never king, I'd imagine Aery's children (Danaerys is the lone survivor) all have stronger claims than Rhaegar's children.
but if not then I think in the books I think it would be Aegon (young griff) before Jon Snow just at this point I doubt they introduce young griff to the show.
I'm not saying I think she has become the smartest person in the room. Only that Littlefinger playing her is too obvious for me. The machinations he has put in place have to come back to bite him at some point...
Also, my strong suspicion is that Gendry was brought back to re-discover the secret of Valyrian steel and make a bunch of it for the war against the dead.
That scene was about her pregnancy. He even asked her if he wanted her to give him some medicine for her presumed morning sickness. It was awkward because Jaime is the father.
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Figure Jon and the Hound are safe (though you never know), everybody else is fair game.
Gendry is probably safe too. I don't think the showrunners brought him back just to feed him to the wights. As others have said, his smithing skills are too useful. Besides, Joe Dempsie and Carice van Houten have some hot chemistry and a score to settle. The show needs to get those two back together.
Yeah he's probably safe. Someone has to continue the Baratheon line as well.
We haven't had a significant character death yet this season (no, Dickon doesn't count. Just kneel you moron!) I think Tormund and Jorah are in trouble.
I think the Frey's in episode 1 was a "no fucking way" moment, no?
but I think there are more coming.
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Kyle in NY said:
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Figure Jon and the Hound are safe (though you never know), everybody else is fair game.
Gendry is probably safe too. I don't think the showrunners brought him back just to feed him to the wights. As others have said, his smithing skills are too useful. Besides, Joe Dempsie and Carice van Houten have some hot chemistry and a score to settle. The show needs to get those two back together.
Yeah he's probably safe. Someone has to continue the Baratheon line as well.
We haven't had a significant character death yet this season (no, Dickon doesn't count. Just kneel you moron!) I think Tormund and Jorah are in trouble.
Well the Sand Snakes and the Queen of Thorns are more significant than Dicky. But yeah, no core characters. I could pick out 20 more meaningful deaths (3 Baratheon brothers, 3 Starks, 3 Lanisters, 2 Boltons, Drogo, Viserys, Margery, the High Sparrow, Oberyn, Mance is almost 20)
They can't all live. If I had to pick one, I suspect Dany will die...
But if they want to go there, they could certainly pull off a real shocker
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Everyone hates the Freys. Awesome scene, but I mean where something horrible happens to a popular protagonist (Dany, Jon, etc.).
They can't all live. If I had to pick one, I suspect Dany will die...
Same here.
They're killing off lesser characters now, IMO. Ramsey Bolton and Margery last season, Queen of Thorns this year. These are not "everything is different from now on" deaths. You could argue Tommen's death is kind of a game changer, but just barely. Nothing really changed except the Reach switching sides, which ended up a short term development.
it's been mentioned multiple times on this thread, and it's was most people expected to be true, only Sam had no way to make the connection.
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about Jon's heritage -- he may not be a bastard after all. Which would put him ahead of Dany for the Iron Throne, I believe.
Not really, Rhaegar was killed before Aerys so I'm not sure how throne succession works, but since Rhaegar was never king, I'd imagine Aery's children (Danaerys is the lone survivor) all have stronger claims than Rhaegar's children.
but if not then I think in the books I think it would be Aegon (young griff) before Jon Snow just at this point I doubt they introduce young griff to the show.
Jon Snow is ahead of Dany with this marriage. If in the books Young Griff is the real Aegon (I doubt it) than he is ahead of Jon. But if he is a fake, and this annulment/marriage thing happens in the books than Jon is the rightful Targaryen heir. Without him in the show, Jon is now ahead of Dany for the throne by the same rules that she, Dany, is using. Jon would now be considered the only legitimate child of the crown prince. This also means where he's been since episode 3, Dragonstone, is rightfully his too and not Dany's.
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In comment 13559624 RobCarpenter said:
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about Jon's heritage -- he may not be a bastard after all. Which would put him ahead of Dany for the Iron Throne, I believe.
Not really, Rhaegar was killed before Aerys so I'm not sure how throne succession works, but since Rhaegar was never king, I'd imagine Aery's children (Danaerys is the lone survivor) all have stronger claims than Rhaegar's children.
but if not then I think in the books I think it would be Aegon (young griff) before Jon Snow just at this point I doubt they introduce young griff to the show.
Jon Snow is ahead of Dany with this marriage. If in the books Young Griff is the real Aegon (I doubt it) than he is ahead of Jon. But if he is a fake, and this annulment/marriage thing happens in the books than Jon is the rightful Targaryen heir. Without him in the show, Jon is now ahead of Dany for the throne by the same rules that she, Dany, is using. Jon would now be considered the only legitimate child of the crown prince. This also means where he's been since episode 3, Dragonstone, is rightfully his too and not Dany's.
Dany's father is former King Aerys not Prince Rhaegar though.
That's like saying Jon Snow would have a greater claim than Viserys.
I admit I don't know throne succession rules, but it seems to me Dany's claim is stronger being a direct descendant of the king, not a prince who died before the king died. Once the prince dies IMO the heir moves to his next child, not the child of his dead heir (while he's alive at least).
All based on the fact Rhaegar died before Aerys.
Of course at this point in the story none of it matters much anyway. And I also wouldn't be surprised if Jon and Dany wind up marrying at some point making it all a moot point anyway.
That's like saying Jon Snow would have a greater claim than Viserys.
That would be consistent with why the Kingsguard were guarding the Tower of Joy rather than Viserys in the flashback.
Also I think this is consistent with the British line of succession. Per Wiki, it is currently Charles, then Charles's son William, then Charles's grandson. Then it gets interesting. Charles's granddaughter, then Prince Harry (so exhausting the Charles line). Then Prince Andrew, who is Charles's brother (QEII's second child). Andrew's 2 kids. then Edward (QEII's 3rd kid) etc.
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That's like saying Jon Snow would have a greater claim than Viserys.
That would be consistent with why the Kingsguard were guarding the Tower of Joy rather than Viserys in the flashback.
Also I think this is consistent with the British line of succession. Per Wiki, it is currently Charles, then Charles's son William, then Charles's grandson. Then it gets interesting. Charles's granddaughter, then Prince Harry (so exhausting the Charles line). Then Prince Andrew, who is Charles's brother (QEII's second child). Andrew's 2 kids. then Edward (QEII's 3rd kid) etc.
So if Charles dies while the Queen is still alive, his children still succeed the Queen, not Andrew?
if yes, that's my incorrect assumption. I assumed when Charles dies (if) the heir becomes Andrew not Charles children.
He's leading the knights of the vale and he's one of the few "bad guys" left so he's a good plot device to keep some tension in Winterfell. But I agree I think he's a goner in the next 2 episodes. He's one of the few "big deaths" without any central role going forward.
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He's leading the knights of the vale and he's one of the few "bad guys" left so he's a good plot device to keep some tension in Winterfell. But I agree I think he's a goner in the next 2 episodes. He's one of the few "big deaths" without any central role going forward.
i think he dies and that makes sansa hate arya
Probably has to do with the Vale.
Seems likely given what's known about Bran, Arya, Littlefinger. This week was the head fake to get littlefinger stirring things up.
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means she'd be the smartest person in the realm now. She shouldn't be above getting conned, IMO. I know she's more important to the show than Littlefinger, but I'd be disappointed if he he gets duped by her.
I'm not saying I think she has become the smartest person in the room. Only that Littlefinger playing her is too obvious for me. The machinations he has put in place have to come back to bite him at some point...
It's also the fact that the story has 9 episodes left and with the hints given this year (Bran's talk w/ Littlefinger) you know he has his day of reckoning coming at some point. I agree with CiP in that with the way this went down it was a bit too obvious of a play, even the parts where she was 10" from him listening in while being somewhat in the open and the immediate rush into his room 2 secs after he left. I think most knew exactly what was going to happen when she discovered the note that this was a ruse by LF
Maybe as an audience we're ust gun shy and expect these things but I've started to feel like that as well. While it's beginnimg to feel over the last few eps like Dany might not see the end of the series I think that will come down the road. After last night I'm wondering if the "awwwww shit!" moment isn't Arya being played (and dispatched) by Littlefinger. That would definitely hit the audience in the gut and while not on the same scale as the Red Weddimg in terms of body count, I think it would affect people even more. I think there's more of an attachment to the character and her motivations after 7 seasons.
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In comment 13559713 pjcas18 said:
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That's like saying Jon Snow would have a greater claim than Viserys.
That would be consistent with why the Kingsguard were guarding the Tower of Joy rather than Viserys in the flashback.
Also I think this is consistent with the British line of succession. Per Wiki, it is currently Charles, then Charles's son William, then Charles's grandson. Then it gets interesting. Charles's granddaughter, then Prince Harry (so exhausting the Charles line). Then Prince Andrew, who is Charles's brother (QEII's second child). Andrew's 2 kids. then Edward (QEII's 3rd kid) etc.
So if Charles dies while the Queen is still alive, his children still succeed the Queen, not Andrew?
if yes, that's my incorrect assumption. I assumed when Charles dies (if) the heir becomes Andrew not Charles children.
Your assumption has some logic but is not correct.
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In comment 13559696 Go Terps said:
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Everyone hates the Freys. Awesome scene, but I mean where something horrible happens to a popular protagonist (Dany, Jon, etc.).
They can't all live. If I had to pick one, I suspect Dany will die...
Same here.
I suspect they all return for season 8. Maybe they kill a stark sister and or little finger though. As it probably should be - the political/tactical battle is a lot more fun than a war against the white walkers.
They'll probably kill one or two of the dragons though to even things out.... not exactly going out on a limb there though. Dany just said to jon they were her children - I'm guessing that's a bad omen for these final 2
Episodes.
Everyone fighting the WW and then cersei ambushing everyone afterwards with the golden company seems like the obvious plot line at this point but who knows.
If there was a GOT dead pool (I'm sure there is) for the next episode I'd have high probability on one of:
Davos (his usefulness is just about done now and he's facing the Wights and he's not a fighter)
Tormund (see Davos other than perhaps uniting the Wildings/free folk "for the cause", he could be a sacrifice for capturing a Wight)
Jorah (see Davos and Tormund - one of them is going to lose their life getting a wight)
None of them are particularly major though. Just seemed like Dany was saying goodbye to Jorah. Seemed final.
I do think Cersei and/or Jamie are killed eventually, but one thing I never got about Cersei's prophecy is it says "the valonquar" or "the little brother" can't that be any little brother, not necessarily hers? It could be Jon Snow, it could be Tyrion or Jamie, it could be Samwell Tarly, why does it have to be her little brother.
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In comment 13559209 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 13559201 PhiPsi125 said:
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Weird how they were able to safely swim away from that close to the battle, lol.
I watched with 5 others tonight and as soon as I saw them swim to shore I said "fuck this shit". Pretty much ruined the next 59 minutes for me. Next weeks episode can't come soon enough, they took an insane amount of short cuts this episode.
Ruined the rest of the episode? Thats dumb.
Whats dumb was that sloppy writing job. I was being somewhat facetious but that was laugh out loud bad.
then stop watching, thanks
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In comment 13559756 BrettNYG10 said:
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He's leading the knights of the vale and he's one of the few "bad guys" left so he's a good plot device to keep some tension in Winterfell. But I agree I think he's a goner in the next 2 episodes. He's one of the few "big deaths" without any central role going forward.
i think he dies and that makes sansa hate arya
Why on earth would that make Sansa hate Arya? Sansa has no love lost for Littlefinger...
I think Sansa has improved a lot on the show. Martin didn't do too many favors for her in the way she was written. She was always going to be unlikable. But she is one who has shown significant growth as a character.
Arya and Sansa were always going to be at odds, but they have been through too much for Littlefinger to be the final nail in their relationship.
I think she has to die before the birth. No reason why Maggie's prophecy shouldn't stay true...
I think she tries to screw over Daenyrs before the season is over and fails but we'll see.
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In comment 13559277 halfback20 said:
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In comment 13559209 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 13559201 PhiPsi125 said:
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Weird how they were able to safely swim away from that close to the battle, lol.
I watched with 5 others tonight and as soon as I saw them swim to shore I said "fuck this shit". Pretty much ruined the next 59 minutes for me. Next weeks episode can't come soon enough, they took an insane amount of short cuts this episode.
Ruined the rest of the episode? Thats dumb.
Whats dumb was that sloppy writing job. I was being somewhat facetious but that was laugh out loud bad.
then stop watching, thanks
Great discussion. Newsflash, I wasn't the only one who thought it was lame.
Agreed. He's kinda become the symbol of all the Northern lords now, but really, fuck him, he didn't just refuse to fight, he was a straight up dick to Jon and Sansa when they asked
I think that's more like a couple episodes, just too expensive to drag out that long.
If they kill off Cersei who is the villain if not the Night King with his wights and white walkers?
Littlefinger? Dany?
I see Littlefinger doing his 4th or however many double-cross of the Starks and joining with Cersei somehow.
I think he makes a better spy for Cersei than Varys, but not sure how Littlefinger could get someone in Dany's inner circle, unless he's picking off Ravens sent to Winterfell and getting information quickly about their plans, but I doubt that.
I agree only because the main material isn't written. I have no doubt GRRM will be killing off several central characters if he ever finishes. The show is a separate entity and I can see the fan favorites staying for a while longer but even then its still likely 1 or 2 will bite the dust. No one is safe in the GoT, we learned that very early on in the series.
I'm not convinced she's pregnant. But if she is I'm guessing she has an ugly death at the hands of either Jaime or Arya.
I wonder if Arya is wearing dead Jamie's face if she'd have two hands.
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"And when your tears have drowned you, the Valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."
I wonder if Arya is wearing dead Jamie's face if she'd have two hands.
Wearing someone's face is one thing, but suddenly growing by a foot is another.
Really the only way he can redeem himself from being an enabler to the evils of Cersei and Tywin, and to be corrective of his past actions as the "kingslayer", is to intervene in a way to preserve the right for another Targareyan to be placed on the throne.
very doable the rest of the way.
Still not clear on how they plan to capture a Wight to prove to cersei they exist, throw it in a burlap sack? shackle it with chains?
Really the only way he can redeem himself from being an enabler to the evils of Cersei and Tywin, and to be corrective of his past actions as the "kingslayer", is to intervene in a way to preserve the right for another Targareyan to be placed on the throne.
I agree about Jaime - he would essentially commit a similar act as Queenslayer, but this time would be an act of redemption
I do suspect he'll end up dying somehow too, he's kind of a tragic/cursed figure to me - don't see a happy ending for him
Melisandre told Arya the two of them would see each other again, so Arya will have a chance to cross her off the list.
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to fulfill the prophecy only if Tyrion or Jamie die and Arya "wears their face", and Jamie only has one hand so I think it's Tyrion.
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"And when your tears have drowned you, the Valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."
I wonder if Arya is wearing dead Jamie's face if she'd have two hands.
Wearing someone's face is one thing, but suddenly growing by a foot is another.
I think she would though. This seems to be is one of the decisions the show has made. She had Walder Frey's height and bone structure in the first episode and suddenly and instantly went back to Arya when she took his face off. So I guess this is explained through magic but they've decided in the show that the person gets all of the features and not just the face. So if she does wind up killing Cersei wearing Jaime's face she'll have all of his features I guess.
Though I do think she'd have to only have one hand. I can't imagine they'd write it wear she randomly loses a hand by putting his face on and then randomly grows it back when taking his face off. That'd be ridiculous.
I hope you are right. I'm tired of Jamie. I,was hoping the dragon would have roasted him but I guess he has more life left. But, because I do believe ARYA will be the one to kill Cersei, I think taking Jamies face to get close to Cersei makes a lot of sense and is the way to do it. However, I have one problem.....ARYA is very short. Jamie,is,tall. How does ARYA make herself much taller even with Jamie's face, that still would look odd.
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I hope you are right. I'm tired of Jamie. I,was hoping the dragon would have roasted him but I guess he has more life left. But, because I do believe ARYA will be the one to kill Cersei, I think taking Jamies face to get close to Cersei makes a lot of sense and is the way to do it. However, I have one problem.....ARYA is very short. Jamie,is,tall. How does ARYA make herself much taller even with Jamie's face, that still would look odd.
I feel like there's some magic along with the face stealing. I mean she sounded exactly like Walder Frey too.
Arya stripped off the mask and she was Arya sized again, Arya is about 5 feet tall, pretty sure Walder Frey was taller than 5 feet.
He does have two hands. The prophecy didn't say one couldn't be made of gold.
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be the one to carry out the prophecy if it is to be interpreted literally unless you believe he can choke Cersei to death with one hand. Possible I guess, but unlikely IMO.
He does have two hands. The prophecy didn't say one couldn't be made of gold.
But one of them, the gold one, is not going to be usable when choking someone.
So my point was unless Jamie is capable of choking Cersei to death with one hand, and the prophecy is to be taken literally, then it would likely be Tyrion not Jamie if "the volonquar" means Cersei's little brother not a generic "little brother" which widens the pool of "suspects".
Cercei believes Jaime has "betrayed" her. She puts a dagger into his heart.
Tyrion, seeing his brother murdered, loses it and chokes the life out of Cercei.
She dies and falls with her arms around Jaime's dead body.
(Jaime always said he wanted to die in the arms of the woman he loved)
Fade to black
Personally, I always thought the Faceless Men used some sort of magic based shape shifting from the Many-Faced God that would not only change their faces but also physically change their body type.....as long as they're wearing that face.
That's why a 5 foot Arya could become a 6 foot Jamie, if she wore his face and attacked Cersei.
That would be a very shocking reveal, but how do you explain the waif's face on the wall of faces instead of Arya's?
That was an interesting theory but why would The waif want to take out Walter Frey and the rest of Arya's list or know details about Winterfell like visiting Ned's crypt.
2. I have a strong feeling Cersie is a goner in the season finale. She will have a trap layed waiting for Dany/Jon to step into. But Jaime will interviene. Either he finds out she is lying to him about her pregnancy or she will try to blow up a section of the city with Dany in it.
If Cersie is pregnant, she is destined to die before giving birth anyway. Lena headly is great, but there is not much more for her character to do. She took the crown, she has gotten her revenges.
Its time for Cersie to go away and for everyone to learn the truth about Jon's parentage. That will lead to an interesting tension between our two main progtagonists, even as they fight together against the dead.
This is another big plot-point (the prophecy) that could take a potentially huge turn from what GRRM originally intended.
But it would be pretty awesome.
One thing I've been thinking about is Davos having to swallow his pride/anger and find The Red Witch so she can revive Jon again.
One thing I've been thinking about is Davos having to swallow his pride/anger and find The Red Witch so she can revive Jon again.
Maybe that's Thoros's purpose on the show.
Also looking forward to Jon Snow's reunion with both Bran and especially Arya. Hope Littlefinger doesn't ruin either of those.
I don't know if they'll do it so quickly after him returning, but I think it would be a good end to his character and plot arc if it happened. It makes sense to me.
I don't know if they'll do it so quickly after him returning, but I think it would be a good end to his character and plot arc if it happened. It makes sense to me.
He also would serve to get Dany emotionally invested in the war against the White Walkers if it turns out he becomes the wight that the group brings back with them.
It would also make sense that he would return the favor of Jon saving and avenging his father.
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He dies fulfilling his promise to serve Dany, saves the life of someone his father thought very highly of, restores his honor in the North in the process of doing it. Also, without even knowing he equally fulfills his promise of protecting House Targaryen as well by protecting Jon.
I don't know if they'll do it so quickly after him returning, but I think it would be a good end to his character and plot arc if it happened. It makes sense to me.
He also would serve to get Dany emotionally invested in the war against the White Walkers if it turns out he becomes the wight that the group brings back with them.
Good way to prove that they are real, to use someone recognizable, that is for sure...
Yeah, the complaint here is kind of odd. "I'll buy that the faceless men can take a face, and a voice. But getting taller? That's just ridiculous". It's a fantasy show.
I don't know if they'll do it so quickly after him returning, but I think it would be a good end to his character and plot arc if it happened. It makes sense to me.
Several people were mentioning thoughts that Dany would be iced, but I hope not and I don't think so. The show's theme song is Fire And Ice.....which happens to be Dany (fire) and Jon Sno (ice). I think they both live on.
then reuniting disease free with your true love, and then offering to put your life on the line for her and expose yourself to ridiculous grievous danger by confronting the army of the un-dead and then (projecting) being killed and reanimated by the army of un-dead.
although hard to ever really know how much time has passed on the show, the only one who looks markedly older is Bran, though if you look back at season 1 Arya does too.
Someone said yesterday that perhaps Dany will fly north of the wall to save Jon with all 3 dragons and lose one in the process.
Several people were mentioning thoughts that Dany would be iced, but I hope not and I don't think so.
Don't worry, Jon is gonna ice her alright.
Boat travel appears to be very, very fast in this world. Which makes sense. I have been wondering why these people spend so much time doing hard rides instead of speedily cruising by boat in relative luxury.
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Several people were mentioning thoughts that Dany would be iced, but I hope not and I don't think so.
Don't worry, Jon is gonna ice her alright.
Yeah I tihnk the tension next year will be Dany not wanting to give up her claim on the throne, even after realizing Jon is the rightful heir. All this comeing to light as they are fighting the dead.
Cersie is toast IMO. There is nothing for her character to do that will surprise us anymore.
That dagger is no doubt going to be used on the hound
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In comment 13560158 5BowlsSoon said:
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Several people were mentioning thoughts that Dany would be iced, but I hope not and I don't think so.
Don't worry, Jon is gonna ice her alright.
Yeah I tihnk the tension next year will be Dany not wanting to give up her claim on the throne, even after realizing Jon is the rightful heir. All this comeing to light as they are fighting the dead.
Cersie is toast IMO. There is nothing for her character to do that will surprise us anymore.
She could start boning the Mountain.
If the setup is Dany vs. Jon, Papa Tarley's speech this week will be good foreshaddowing. Jon has a legit claim to the throne, grew up in Westeros, and only let the free folk south of the wall (way less of a big deal than putting the Dothraki on boats).
Gendry is pretty cocky. I wonder whether he's going to claim to be the legit heir to Robert. I get that Cersi took the throne by being a bad ass, but I do wonder where she and her brother get the balls to claim that oaths made to Robert and his sons (who werent really his sons) somehow transfer to the Lannisters now.
I wondered if that was a nod to the Targaryen's, since they were notoriously incestuous.
Daenerys is the daughter of brother and sister.
Seemed from the show that she was just property for him to use to further advance his own agenda. I wonder in the books if it mentions if he had any plans to marry Daenerys himself before his ideal to marry her off to Drogo to get the Dothraki army to win the Iron Throne for him.
Seemed from the show that she was just property for him to use to further advance his own agenda. I wonder in the books if it mentions if he had any plans to marry Daenerys himself before his ideal to marry her off to Drogo to get the Dothraki army to win the Iron Throne for him.
Martin did a great job with Viserys, I disliked him almost as much and as instantly as Joffrey.
I don't remember Viserys wanting to marry daenerys, but he did try and take her virginity on her wedding night, but I think Jorah stopped him (someone did).
From my recollection Viserys was more interested in winning back his throne more than marrying Daenerys if he even had any interest in that, but he did view her as his property and he believed he sold her to the Dothraki to get the services of their army.
His death was one of those "thank god" that guy was so annoying moments.
What if Dany is nuts? He may be talked into it as his duty.
We know that or think that, but you know how people like Varys think, they'll make him out to be a threat not an ally.
I did find this though which I found interesting, is this just because Aegon was an infant? Viserys couldn't have been much older?
Viserys was only a young boy at the time of Robert's Rebellion, and Queen Rhaella sheltered him from King Aerys's madness as much as she could.[10] When his brother Rhaegar was killed at the Battle of the Trident, Viserys was named his father's heir, passing over Rhaegar's infant son Aegon.
this is what my logic was about Daenerys, though male/female not being considered in my logic.
Link - ( New Window )
Also if you think about it he is the one character that has always been promoted up the chain of power and never asked for a single one of them. From nothing bastard of Winterfell to steward to Lord Commander to battle commander to King in the North. There's really only one promotion left.
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All you guys pining for central character deaths, I feel are going to be sadly disappointed this late in the game. It makes perfect sense early. Build emotion, the want for revenge, ect. but this late? I seriously doubt it.
I agree only because the main material isn't written. I have no doubt GRRM will be killing off several central characters if he ever finishes. The show is a separate entity and I can see the fan favorites staying for a while longer but even then its still likely 1 or 2 will bite the dust. No one is safe in the GoT, we learned that very early on in the series.
All the key points have been laid out. There are not going to be serious deviations. He might throw the book fans a bone and go in a little bit of a different direction in a few areas but Im guessing it's nothing major.
Further, GRRM has said he has drawn from the Lord of the Rings many times and absolutely loved how it ended. I think we are going to see a sappy ending with the Starks coming out mostly on top (minus Arya). When I talk of central characters I am really talking about central protagonists. Of course Cersei, Littlefinger, and a bunch of huge characters are still going to die. I still feel Arya and Jaime are toast. Daenyrys, Jon Snow, Tyrian, and most of the characters we are rooting for will live IMO.
I don't know. I've just never heard of a one-armed man choking someone to death.
I kind of feel like it would be a hard thing to do. I mean Jamie isn't Theon, but he's not physically powerful like the Mountain either.
Arya stripped off the mask and she was Arya sized again, Arya is about 5 feet tall, pretty sure Walder Frey was taller than 5 feet.
The face-stealing concept was bad from the beginning. Impossible to execute well on screen. Not even easy to imagine when reading.
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be able to choke a skinny woman with one hand? Its morbid to think about but its certainly possible.
I don't know. I've just never heard of a one-armed man choking someone to death.
I kind of feel like it would be a hard thing to do. I mean Jamie isn't Theon, but he's not physically powerful like the Mountain either.
Really want to get off this subject because it's awful to think about but I'm 6 feet tall, I could definitely squeeze a woman's neck up against a wall or something.
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Commander of the Night's Watch and he doesn't want to be the King in the North. I can't see him wanting to be ruler of the realm if it even comes to that. His lineage speaks more to him being legitimized and potentially a controller of dragons than it is their heir to the throne.
What if Dany is nuts? He may be talked into it as his duty.
My only point is I don't think it's something he will be gunning for due to it being his right. If circumstance takes him that route like it has in his 2 other positions, that's a different story.
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In comment 13560329 ZGiants98 said:
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be able to choke a skinny woman with one hand? Its morbid to think about but its certainly possible.
I don't know. I've just never heard of a one-armed man choking someone to death.
I kind of feel like it would be a hard thing to do. I mean Jamie isn't Theon, but he's not physically powerful like the Mountain either.
Really want to get off this subject because it's awful to think about but I'm 6 feet tall, I could definitely squeeze a woman's neck up against a wall or something.
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In comment 13559888 ZGiants98 said:
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All you guys pining for central character deaths, I feel are going to be sadly disappointed this late in the game. It makes perfect sense early. Build emotion, the want for revenge, ect. but this late? I seriously doubt it.
I agree only because the main material isn't written. I have no doubt GRRM will be killing off several central characters if he ever finishes. The show is a separate entity and I can see the fan favorites staying for a while longer but even then its still likely 1 or 2 will bite the dust. No one is safe in the GoT, we learned that very early on in the series.
All the key points have been laid out. There are not going to be serious deviations. He might throw the book fans a bone and go in a little bit of a different direction in a few areas but Im guessing it's nothing major.
Further, GRRM has said he has drawn from the Lord of the Rings many times and absolutely loved how it ended. I think we are going to see a sappy ending with the Starks coming out mostly on top (minus Arya). When I talk of central characters I am really talking about central protagonists. Of course Cersei, Littlefinger, and a bunch of huge characters are still going to die. I still feel Arya and Jaime are toast. Daenyrys, Jon Snow, Tyrian, and most of the characters we are rooting for will live IMO.
GRRM says a lot of things including Littlefinger being one of if the his most favorite character. You can draw a conclusion there or just chalk it up to him enjoying writing that character with no strings attached.
If the books were done and then ending was laid out already I'm almost certain the ending wouldn't be a "happy" one. But with HBO I'd wager we are going to get a happy ending. That said it doesn't mean there won't be a deviation from how it's headed. If I looked back to everyone's theories from episode 1 of this season to now most of them would be wrong some very wrong, myself included. The writers are going to have to pop something big into this ending and Arya dying to finish her list I think is a bit too convenient.
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In comment 13559913 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 13559888 ZGiants98 said:
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All you guys pining for central character deaths, I feel are going to be sadly disappointed this late in the game. It makes perfect sense early. Build emotion, the want for revenge, ect. but this late? I seriously doubt it.
I agree only because the main material isn't written. I have no doubt GRRM will be killing off several central characters if he ever finishes. The show is a separate entity and I can see the fan favorites staying for a while longer but even then its still likely 1 or 2 will bite the dust. No one is safe in the GoT, we learned that very early on in the series.
All the key points have been laid out. There are not going to be serious deviations. He might throw the book fans a bone and go in a little bit of a different direction in a few areas but Im guessing it's nothing major.
Further, GRRM has said he has drawn from the Lord of the Rings many times and absolutely loved how it ended. I think we are going to see a sappy ending with the Starks coming out mostly on top (minus Arya). When I talk of central characters I am really talking about central protagonists. Of course Cersei, Littlefinger, and a bunch of huge characters are still going to die. I still feel Arya and Jaime are toast. Daenyrys, Jon Snow, Tyrian, and most of the characters we are rooting for will live IMO.
GRRM says a lot of things including Littlefinger being one of if the his most favorite character. You can draw a conclusion there or just chalk it up to him enjoying writing that character with no strings attached.
If the books were done and then ending was laid out already I'm almost certain the ending wouldn't be a "happy" one. But with HBO I'd wager we are going to get a happy ending. That said it doesn't mean there won't be a deviation from how it's headed. If I looked back to everyone's theories from episode 1 of this season to now most of them would be wrong some very wrong, myself included. The writers are going to have to pop something big into this ending and Arya dying to finish her list I think is a bit too convenient.
Dont agree at all. Everything he has said has alluded to a happy ending. He pushed many of the characters to the absolute limit along the way but this was always going to end well in true fantasy epic form. Id bet my life on it.
headline:
There are a lot of dark chapters right now in the book that I’m writing. It is called The Winds of Winter, and I’ve been telling you for 20 years that winter was coming. Winter is the time when things die, and cold and ice and darkness fill the world, so this is not going to be the happy feel-good that people may be hoping for. Some of the characters [are] in very dark places.
In any story, the classic structure is, ‘Things get worse before they get better,’ so things are getting worse for a lot of people.
.....
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In comment 13559888 ZGiants98 said:
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All you guys pining for central character deaths, I feel are going to be sadly disappointed this late in the game. It makes perfect sense early. Build emotion, the want for revenge, ect. but this late? I seriously doubt it.
I agree only because the main material isn't written. I have no doubt GRRM will be killing off several central characters if he ever finishes. The show is a separate entity and I can see the fan favorites staying for a while longer but even then its still likely 1 or 2 will bite the dust. No one is safe in the GoT, we learned that very early on in the series.
All the key points have been laid out. There are not going to be serious deviations. He might throw the book fans a bone and go in a little bit of a different direction in a few areas but Im guessing it's nothing major.
Further, GRRM has said he has drawn from the Lord of the Rings many times and absolutely loved how it ended. I think we are going to see a sappy ending with the Starks coming out mostly on top (minus Arya). When I talk of central characters I am really talking about central protagonists. Of course Cersei, Littlefinger, and a bunch of huge characters are still going to die. I still feel Arya and Jaime are toast. Daenyrys, Jon Snow, Tyrian, and most of the characters we are rooting for will live IMO.
Everything you wrote put a tear in my eye except that one mention of ARYA dying. Why do you think that?
Jon meeting Dany for the first time.
Jon going north of the wall again.
Arya rolling back into Winterfell.
All of those scenes would have carried so much more weight with the wolves.
Arya can sword fight and has a list, omg she cray!... or Arya emerges from a pack of a dozen wolves outside the gates of Winterfell?
Makes Jon Snow even more unique, he has Stark blood and can relate with the wolves (don't remember if he ever warged or dreamed like the other Starks) and Targaryen so he relates to the dragons.
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have chosen funding the dragons over the direwolves. But I agree, the direwolves are the more compelling creatures with more interesting storylines. Even in the books the direwolves are far more interesting, IMO.
Makes Jon Snow even more unique, he has Stark blood and can relate with the wolves (don't remember if he ever warged or dreamed like the other Starks) and Targaryen so he relates to the dragons.
I seem to recall episodes in the book where Snow was seeing through Ghosts eyes on a hunt.
1) Martin will probably never finish, so the last two books will basically be amateur fan-fiction by his European ghost writers; and
2) He agreed the ending with the showrunners. They are free to get there by a different path, but the destination is the same.
1) Martin will probably never finish, so the last two books will basically be amateur fan-fiction by his European ghost writers; and
2) He agreed the ending with the showrunners. They are free to get there by a different path, but the destination is the same.
Geez, the second to last book has to be mostly done, no?
At any rate, I view the books as a different experience than the shows. There's a lot of detail to consume and I love it all. I guess it will diminish any of the big reveal major plot points, but those were diminished in reverse as I watched the show knowing about Ned, Joff and the Red Wedding as I went.
If and when he finishes, I will buy and start reading day 1.
So I don't think knowing the show plot will bother me at all.
So I don't think knowing the show plot will bother me at all.
I did something similar - alternated reading book 1, then watching season 1, book 2, season 2, through 3 seasons, which was fun and the stories still tracked reasonably closely. In a strange and pretty cool twist of fate, I read the Red Wedding chapter the weekend the episode aired live during that season, so when all my coworkers were going nuts talking about it, I knew what they were on about and could join in.
Books 4 and 5 really wandered and weren't nearly as compelling to read, especially following the brilliance of Storm of Swords. I slogged through those before turning to the show full time.
At this point, will of course continue reading if/when the book version ever continues, but don't really spend much time worrying about how the story will compare to the show anymore. Almost 2 separate sagas at this point
Jeyne Westerling aka mrs Robb Stark in the books is alive in the books, but not pregnant from what I remember.
Where Arya is gonna get beat is when the chicken comes home to roost. She fucked over the faceless God or sect or whatever. That's gonna come back to her.
Where Arya is gonna get beat is when the chicken comes home to roost. She fucked over the faceless God or sect or whatever. That's gonna come back to her.
Did she? Wasn't the last thing he said to her "a girl is ready"?
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Chris, that was freakin AWESOME!!! LOL
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is nothing spoilerish. It's a fan made trailer tht men of a certain age will appreciate.
Chris, that was freakin AWESOME!!! LOL
I've watched it five times. They nailed it.
Holding off on this episode (I've read the episode summaries.) I just don't want to make the wait for the finale that much greater so I should be able to survive a couple more days.
You can see the Ayra/Sansa rivalry early on.
I completely forgot that most of the first EP is devoted to the walkers.
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In comment 13561852 Chris in Philly said:
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is nothing spoilerish. It's a fan made trailer tht men of a certain age will appreciate.
Chris, that was freakin AWESOME!!! LOL
I've watched it five times. They nailed it.
Brilliant. Just more evidence that the greatest decade in world history was in fact the 80s.
The leaked Curb is fantastic too. Leon is back. Lol
The leaked Curb is fantastic too. Leon is back. Lol
Saw it too. Absolutely Incredible! I'll leave it at that.
That wins the internet for the day !!!!
The spesrkilled the dragon. The Knight King brought him back to fly with the desd.
It's 100% coming back dead...
It had to happen. Having 3 dragons isn't balanced at all, both wars would be over in a day. They had to do it this way to make things interesting.
And the show is beating us over the head with the notion of Jon and Dany having a child. There have been a few references recently to Dany not being able to have one, and now Jorah tells Jon that Longclaw will serve him "and his children" well. Remember what the witch told Dany: "Only death can pay for the life." I wonder if the dead dragon means she'll get pregnant.
When they were walking in the beginning of the episode there was 2-3 guys lagging behind. Im assuming it was a couple randoms that joined up