NFT: Knicks Chat: Cavs want KP for Irving (yeah no thanks)

I think isn't correct. He averaged 20-8-2 until his injury in January, dropped to 14-5-2 over the following month of the injury, then 18-7-2 over the rest of the season. He tried to come back too fast from the injury to his own statistical detriment. He shot 40% from the 3 prior to injury and 30% for the balance of the season. It matches the narrative he provided in his post season press interviews; “Until I got hurt with the Achilles, I was playing a very high level, very consistently, every night, but still we weren’t playing at the level that we wanted to as a team, so that didn’t really do anything for me,’’ Porzingis said. “But I liked the consistency. I was out there playing at a high level. Then the injuries, little things [that] happened got me out of my rhythm. Then it was kind of on and off, some games good, some games not so good. I was trying to find that rhythm for a long time. Then the second part of the season, it was just a big fight for us and mentally tough. I think I grew from this season.’’

It's not refined or NBA ready to be a focal point yet. He's too weak and gets pushed out of position, but he is a very talented player when his back is to the basket or he's facing the basket. Saying he can't or even that he wont be able to create his own shot is just off base, IMO. He can already do that now and he still has a ton or room to grow.

article on Frank
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Rise stunted KP's development. Plus he was ahead of his rookie pace before he got hurt.

hurt KP. He needs to be the focal point of the offense, IMO. It would def help to play with a PG that got him good looks and got him the ball in good spots, but standing on the 3 pt line while Melo holds the ball for 20 seconds doesn't help either.

Around the NBA, there are questions about how long the Knicks will refuse dealing their 7-foot-3 rising star, with Cleveland’s Kyrie Irving on the market and the Cavaliers reportedly zeroing in on Porzingis as a target.

The Knicks, so far, have dismissed any conversations that include Porzingis in a trade with Cleveland, according to ESPN, but league executives reportedly are wondering if the Knicks will blink with a star like Irving — or a star of his caliber — available.

the perception of the Knicks is slightly worse than the reality. It's like the Knicks don't have a choice in the matter.

How long until the Knicks are forced to give in to Cleveland and move KP??

and Cavs would probably prefer KP to any other player they can ask for, so BS articles like this get put out in hopes of moving the Knicks.

Even the worst of past Knicks GMs and decision makers would realize trading KP for Irving is complete stupidity.

In comment 13561062 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

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and Cavs would probably prefer KP to any other player they can ask for, so BS articles like this get put out in hopes of moving the Knicks. Even the worst of past Knicks GMs and decision makers would realize trading KP for Irving is complete stupidity.

You are giving past GM's way too much credit.

In comment 13560803 DanMetroMan said:

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really wish they would have dumped the Asian Porn fiend. I don't think he's helped KP.

I'm shocked by this too. By all accounts he's not well liked by KP or the players. And putting him in charge of defense is a joke. Why is he still around?

they're not trading KP this summer, period. Until they do that, I worry about the buzz.

Remember, this is a TERRIBLY run team and the KP and the Knicks not communicating stuff isnt disappearing.

a terribly run team. I'm willing to give Perry a shot.

In comment 13561139 Jon in NYC said:

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a terribly run team. I'm willing to give Perry a shot.

My operating position is that it's the same owner, the same flunkies etc. The problem wasnt Phil. Phil was one in a line of failed GM/President because the organization stinks. There was not an overhaul in the organization this summer -- just some substitutions.

What are the chances the Knicks hold all of KP, Frank, and the next 2 #1s and make a real go of a development cycle? I dont put it at even 25%. The organization is far too impatient. Like the guy who fritters away every paycheck on a game of dice. Even when he wins, he bets into it and loses.

Tristan Thompson and take back Noah I might do that.

Knicks give
Porzingis

Noah

Cavs give
Irving
Thompson

way.

In comment 13561153 andrew_nyg said:

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Tristan Thompson and take back Noah I might do that. Knicks give Porzingis Noah Cavs give Irving Thompson

Why? What's the end goal? Two guys in their prime who probably cant beat the Durant-Warriors WITH LEBRON AS A TEAMMATE? But who are good enough to keep you away from very high picks?

Thompson is also very overrated IMO. He's an average player. I think some of the advanced stats like him, but I think the advanced stats dont do a great job on low usage and high usage players. They value efficiency too much IMO. Thompson not only doesnt shoot, he doesnt even touch the ball. He's owed a lot of money to do very little on offense.

I think it's totally nuts for this Knicks team to be sacrificing assets (some of KP's value) to get rid of the Noah contract. Again, to what end? Why do we need that cap space right now?

In comment 13560736 Deej said:

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but to be fair I have more concerns than I did a year ago. I dont care about him skipping the meeting from a professionalism POV, but I do have worried that he'll have a wandering eye. More fundamentally, he didnt improve over his rookie season. He played more minutes, and that pushed up his PPG stats. Per 36 minutes, he was +1.8 points, -1.4 rebounds, -.3 blocks, +.5 fouls, assists and steals flat. Best improvement was in eFG% which went from 46.7% to 50.7% on the strength of better shooting <3 feet, 10-16 feet, and from 3, plus him getting away from shooting from 16-3P (worst shot on the floor). PER, WS48, BPM, VORP were virtually unchanged. After 1 season he was ahead of Dirk. After 2 I think he's behind Dirk. Towns, the other super rookie from 2015/16, jumped another .050 in WS48 and is now double KP. After 1 season KP looked like he was clearly on a path to being a top 10 player. After 2 seasons I have more doubts.

I think you are looking for him to sustain his numbers as he plays more minutes. A lot of guys can put up good stats per 36 in limited playing time but only quality starters can do it playing full time.

So, I think his second year numbers are fine.

I think top 10 players was just a bit unrealistic for KPP. He is not going to be in the category with Lebron, Durant, Harden, Curry etc . . .I also think Towns is an all-around better player, though KPP might turn out to be the better scorer

In comment 13561168 Deej said:

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In comment 13561153 andrew_nyg said: Quote: Tristan Thompson and take back Noah I might do that. Knicks give Porzingis Noah Cavs give Irving Thompson Why? What's the end goal? Two guys in their prime who probably cant beat the Durant-Warriors WITH LEBRON AS A TEAMMATE? But who are good enough to keep you away from very high picks? Thompson is also very overrated IMO. He's an average player. I think some of the advanced stats like him, but I think the advanced stats dont do a great job on low usage and high usage players. They value efficiency too much IMO. Thompson not only doesnt shoot, he doesnt even touch the ball. He's owed a lot of money to do very little on offense. I think it's totally nuts for this Knicks team to be sacrificing assets (some of KP's value) to get rid of the Noah contract. Again, to what end? Why do we need that cap space right now?

+1000000. Thompson is a solid role player. Nothing more and has zero additional upside. He's going into year 7 of his career.

am/was strongly in the DO NOT TRADE camp... that being said the only KP trade that had a rationale argument was Ainge "overpaying" with picks and the Knicks gambling on multiple lotto tickets landing vs. 1 KP. Even then I was strongly against it but trading in a deal (in part) to rid themselves of Noah would be farcical. It should be noted that Noah (and I absolutely despised the signing) was not as bad as people want to believe. .106 WS/48, 15.2 PER, KP has praised him in the locker room, fluent in French (helps Frank). It's not as if Noah was so bad that it's impossible to see a scenario where he's moved to a contending team in a year for a guy with 1 year left or even expiring deals. He's not Jared Jeffries.

In comment 13561255 DanMetroMan said:

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am/was strongly in the DO NOT TRADE camp... that being said the only KP trade that had a rationale argument was Ainge "overpaying" with picks and the Knicks gambling on multiple lotto tickets landing vs. 1 KP. Even then I was strongly against it but trading in a deal (in part) to rid themselves of Noah would be farcical. It should be noted that Noah (and I absolutely despised the signing) was not as bad as people want to believe. .106 WS/48, 15.2 PER, KP has praised him in the locker room, fluent in French (helps Frank). It's not as if Noah was so bad that it's impossible to see a scenario where he's moved to a contending team in a year for a guy with 1 year left or even expiring deals. He's not Jared Jeffries.

Agreed. I feel similarly.

In comment 13561144 Deej said:

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In comment 13561139 Jon in NYC said: Quote: a terribly run team. I'm willing to give Perry a shot. My operating position is that it's the same owner, the same flunkies etc. The problem wasnt Phil. Phil was one in a line of failed GM/President because the organization stinks. There was not an overhaul in the organization this summer -- just some substitutions. What are the chances the Knicks hold all of KP, Frank, and the next 2 #1s and make a real go of a development cycle? I dont put it at even 25%. The organization is far too impatient. Like the guy who fritters away every paycheck on a game of dice. Even when he wins, he bets into it and loses.

Dolan has actually been pretty hands off recently. The problem was Phil was just a massive disappointment. If Perry proves competent I can't imagine Dolan will meddle. If it's anyone who interferes it'll be Mills, but he at least seems pretty on board with the youth movement.

We'll see, but I'm cautiously optimistic. You can win with a KP-Frank-Willy-THJR-Picks core.

In comment 13561273 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 13561144 Deej said: Quote: In comment 13561139 Jon in NYC said: Quote: a terribly run team. I'm willing to give Perry a shot. My operating position is that it's the same owner, the same flunkies etc. The problem wasnt Phil. Phil was one in a line of failed GM/President because the organization stinks. There was not an overhaul in the organization this summer -- just some substitutions. What are the chances the Knicks hold all of KP, Frank, and the next 2 #1s and make a real go of a development cycle? I dont put it at even 25%. The organization is far too impatient. Like the guy who fritters away every paycheck on a game of dice. Even when he wins, he bets into it and loses. Dolan has actually been pretty hands off recently. The problem was Phil was just a massive disappointment. If Perry proves competent I can't imagine Dolan will meddle. If it's anyone who interferes it'll be Mills, but he at least seems pretty on board with the youth movement. We'll see, but I'm cautiously optimistic. You can win with a KP-Frank-Willy-THJR-Picks core.

Steve Mills is Perry's boss, so no, Dolan hasnt been hands off.

Im sorry, but benefit of the doubt time went out the window years ago. The organization is rotten to its core. There is no new organizational leadership -- just a new basketball guy who doesnt even have final BB say. And some BB underlings.

In comment 13561243 Vanzetti said:

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I think top 10 players was just a bit unrealistic for KPP. He is not going to be in the category with Lebron, Durant, Harden, Curry etc . . .I also think Towns is an all-around better player, though KPP might turn out to be the better scorer

I think if KP puts in 25 ppg, 9.3 blocks (his rookie per 36 rate), 2.4 blocks (same), on 50-40ish-80 shooting, he's a top 10 player. I think scoring ability and defense are the key skills in the NBA and he can be better than KAT in both.

KP's shooting/scoring in particular could make a team, in the way Dirk's did. He wont win a scoring title, but a 7'3 guy with a hair trigger release causes havoc on Ds. You wont necessarily need a lot more dynamism. In fact, I could see KP, a dynamic guard, a bench scorer, and a bunch of defensive specialists being a powerhouse.

In comment 13561318 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13561273 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 13561144 Deej said: Quote: In comment 13561139 Jon in NYC said: Quote: a terribly run team. I'm willing to give Perry a shot. My operating position is that it's the same owner, the same flunkies etc. The problem wasnt Phil. Phil was one in a line of failed GM/President because the organization stinks. There was not an overhaul in the organization this summer -- just some substitutions. What are the chances the Knicks hold all of KP, Frank, and the next 2 #1s and make a real go of a development cycle? I dont put it at even 25%. The organization is far too impatient. Like the guy who fritters away every paycheck on a game of dice. Even when he wins, he bets into it and loses. Dolan has actually been pretty hands off recently. The problem was Phil was just a massive disappointment. If Perry proves competent I can't imagine Dolan will meddle. If it's anyone who interferes it'll be Mills, but he at least seems pretty on board with the youth movement. We'll see, but I'm cautiously optimistic. You can win with a KP-Frank-Willy-THJR-Picks core. Steve Mills is Perry's boss, so no, Dolan hasnt been hands off. Im sorry, but benefit of the doubt time went out the window years ago. The organization is rotten to its core. There is no new organizational leadership -- just a new basketball guy who doesnt even have final BB say. And some BB underlings.

I'm not sure what Mills running the team has to do with Dolan other than him being a guy Dolan hired/trusts.

In comment 13561326 Deej said:

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In fact, I could see KP, a dynamic guard, a bench scorer, and a bunch of defensive specialists being a powerhouse.

one of the reasons I wanted a guy like Monk or Smith in the draft.

But I don't view that at all as necessary to his career. He's a shooter. Calling plays for him to play in the post is like handicapping yourself 1 potential point every time you do it.

for his current position - and his presence is the main reason a proven guy currently doesn't have the job. And yes, proven guys would consider taking this job even though Dolan is awful. The combination of the money, the prestige that comes if you actually have even a little bit of success, and the built-in excuse if/when you fail is enough of a lure to get big name execs here. Instead we have an empty suit with very little experience.

But that being said we are stuck with him
But he can still play defense and can be an asset to Wily KP and Frank
If the Cavs do buckle and Melo waives his no trade then I would trade
Melo. Frank. 2019 and 2021 first round picks for Kyrie
The contracts that Knicks need to get rid of are Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas That would clear 20 million
Lee could net us a draft pick but I don't know who would take Thomas

In comment 13561153 andrew_nyg said:

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Tristan Thompson and take back Noah I might do that. Knicks give Porzingis Noah Cavs give Irving Thompson

Gross.

Get some assets, a Frank + assets might get you Kyrie. You could then build with KP & Kyrie as your core.

The only knick deal that includes kyrie is with kp- and the knicks would be moronic to do that

To have on the radar?

Seems like 3 is going to be our biggest hole going forward. I'd rather see what Frank, THJ, 1st rounder, KP, and WHG can do together over the next few years than bring in a guy like Kyrie right now to try to compete right away.

I want to say he's KD-lite, but he might be as good.

an instant contender for anything. They've got to finally pay the price and slowly build a team.

In comment 13561685 Jim in Hoboken said:

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I want to say he's KD-lite, but he might be as good.

Thanks Jim. That guy looks like a specimen.

who look like they could be better prospects than Ball/Jackson/Tatum. You dont need to hit #1 overall.

Of course, a year out the warts arent exposed. Lots of guys fall in their draft year as their game is exposed.

are going wild for the top of this draft. I mean Sexton is being talked about potentially as being in the same class as the PG's who went high this year and some mocks have him 8-10 right now. Ayton/Bamba are legit 7 footers and we know about Porter/Bagley/Doncic. Stay the course.

ESPN panel predicts the Knicks finish 31-51 (tied for 10th in the East) http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20353282/2017-summer-forecast-eastern-conference-standings #Knicks

if we dump Melo for nothing that helps this season, I still think they're around 30 wins. The majority of the rotation is going to be vets...and it's possible KP takes the leap at some point.

that just declared he's going to Duke? Forgot his name but ESPN had him on a few days ago in one of those awkward declaration things they love to do lately. I presume he's gonna be talked up as a can't miss draftee in another year or two?

In comment 13562051 djm said:

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that just declared he's going to Duke? Forgot his name but ESPN had him on a few days ago in one of those awkward declaration things they love to do lately. I presume he's gonna be talked up as a can't miss draftee in another year or two?

Bagley. He's in the mix for #1. He and Porter will likely battle for #2 overall. Doncic in the mix and then Ayton/Bamba/Sexton/Bridges/Williams all considered potentially "top 5" guys.

In comment 13561996 DanMetroMan said:

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are going wild for the top of this draft. I mean Sexton is being talked about potentially as being in the same class as the PG's who went high this year and some mocks have him 8-10 right now. Ayton/Bamba are legit 7 footers and we know about Porter/Bagley/Doncic. Stay the course.

If you had to pick today, which guy would you want with Frank, THJ, KP, and WHG?

And Bagley was the Duke headline.

says he won't reclassify. He's going to be a polarizing prospect for sure.

In comment 13562059 adamg said:

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In comment 13561996 DanMetroMan said: Quote: are going wild for the top of this draft. I mean Sexton is being talked about potentially as being in the same class as the PG's who went high this year and some mocks have him 8-10 right now. Ayton/Bamba are legit 7 footers and we know about Porter/Bagley/Doncic. Stay the course. If you had to pick today, which guy would you want with Frank, THJ, KP, and WHG? And Bagley was the Duke headline.

i think doncic would be a perfect fit, he is a playmaker, could fit real nicely..

In comment 13562058 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 13562051 djm said: Quote: that just declared he's going to Duke? Forgot his name but ESPN had him on a few days ago in one of those awkward declaration things they love to do lately. I presume he's gonna be talked up as a can't miss draftee in another year or two? Bagley. He's in the mix for #1. He and Porter will likely battle for #2 overall. Doncic in the mix and then Ayton/Bamba/Sexton/Bridges/Williams all considered potentially "top 5" guys.

Ah that's him. Thanks. So he will be coming into the NBA this time next year most likely?

Bagley will more likely than not be in the NBA 1 year from now. I love Doncic but odds are #1 is Porter or Bagley and then Doncic. Doncic is close with Willy which is kind of cool.

he Knicks don’t appear interested in trading Kristaps Porzingis, including a possible deal for Cavaliers All-Star point guard Kyrie Irving, according to a league source…

“[Knicks president] Steve Mills and [Knicks general manager] Scott Perry on the record were very clear that Kristaps was part of the future,’’ the source said in reference to comments made last month by both executives. “In all the discussions since then — there were other rumors before that Cleveland would want Kristaps — and it didn’t seem that [the Knicks] were interested at all in a conversation.’’

In comment 13562064 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13562059 adamg said: Quote: In comment 13561996 DanMetroMan said: Quote: are going wild for the top of this draft. I mean Sexton is being talked about potentially as being in the same class as the PG's who went high this year and some mocks have him 8-10 right now. Ayton/Bamba are legit 7 footers and we know about Porter/Bagley/Doncic. Stay the course. If you had to pick today, which guy would you want with Frank, THJ, KP, and WHG? And Bagley was the Duke headline. i think doncic would be a perfect fit, he is a playmaker, could fit real nicely..

Reading his profile, I'd love if we could snag him. 4 Euros to start would be a cool dynamic.

like we have a normal brained GM for once
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13562484 DanMetroMan said:

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like we have a normal brained GM for once Link - ( New Window )

if kp and willy make a jump and thjr continues to improve i wonder if he coukd convince someone to take a chance?

If melo opts out or they dont take on a large contract in a trade they could get to max cap space...