Also when should they make these adjustments? Do the Giants already know what they have in Flowers? Are they going to keep him in the lineup and help him out? Will they bench him and if so what will the new line look like in personnel and positions? How will all this affect the offense?
Maybe someone like Michael Oher or someone will shake loose with the late cut downs from 90 to 53 this year.
Too much riding on the OL this year and the teams aspirations to simply hope Flowers improves. A veteran backup is insurance against injury too.
Hoping someone serviceable shakes loose somehow but a lot of teams in this league are looking for OT help, so we'd be far from the only suitors.
I'm optimistic that Flowers improves this season. He's apparently corrected some of the things he was criticized for in terms of his preparation in years 1 and 2 and by all accounts has been a positive presence in and around the facility this offseason. Hopefully we see the fruits of those labors as he has the skill set. I was also heartened to see some areas of improvement against PIT the other night... more consistent hand placement, less dropping his head on contact, better sets. He's not Orlando Pace out there, but I am hoping for incremental improvement.
So, whether it's Ellison or Adams (whom Sy and gidie have praised for his blocking), or a FB like Smith, I figure the Giants will try to give Flowers as much help as possible if he's still having issues. I don't see the Giants making any major personnel shifts at this stage of the game.
the OP asked what do the Giants do if he struggles.
It's good to have a plan.
And I like the addition of Ellison, and a FB, but Flowers still needs to be better and if he doesn't it would be nice if there was a plan B.
Maybe someone like Michael Oher or someone will shake loose with the late cut downs from 90 to 53 this year.
Too much riding on the OL this year and the teams aspirations to simply hope Flowers improves. A veteran backup is insurance against injury too.
I'm not worried about a down practice, but it's a fair question.... it's far from certain that he won't struggle. And if he does..? The Giants should have some sort of contingency plan.
It would be a shame if the OL wrecked the season when we have such a good team almost everywhere else.
Or another way to look at it is that the team is only six months away from having to decided if they even want him for a fifth year. A 9th overall pick who couldn't even secure a fifth-year option is very disappointing, if not a bust.
Why is young age necessarily a positive? Looking back, Dwight Gooden's career peaked at age 20, Michelle Kwan at 15, and Macaulay Culkin at 10. Reuben Randke!s young age was often cited as reason for optimism, and he was only 24 when only one NFL team offered the healthy free agent a prove-it deal, and cut him before the season. People had seen enough, even at a young age.
Scary to think if he fails at LT again this year. Hoping for best now or manageable with him now
I think the OL situation is a little overplayed. Guys are going to get beat on occasion by talented guys on the opposite side of the line. The Giants were 11-5 last year with Flowers anchoring the left side my himself. No reason not to assume he will be better with some help if needed and another year of seasoning.
He was not the reason the Giants lost to Green Bay in the playoffs.
I think the OL situation is a little overplayed. Guys are going to get beat on occasion by talented guys on the opposite side of the line. The Giants were 11-5 last year with Flowers anchoring the left side my himself. No reason not to assume he will be better with some help if needed and another year of seasoning.
He was not the reason the Giants lost to Green Bay in the playoffs.
Constantly parking Ellison next to him takes a potential receiver out of the play, and also acts as a tell. While having a good blocking tight end helps, it isn't a solution.
Actually, they each are about an 11 million cap hit this year. And Giants are only about 5 million above the cap. So they're out for now.
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The lack of a blocking TE or Fullback on the roster last year left Flowers alone on an island. He struggled as a result. He played well in the preseason game so that's a positive.
I think the OL situation is a little overplayed. Guys are going to get beat on occasion by talented guys on the opposite side of the line. The Giants were 11-5 last year with Flowers anchoring the left side my himself. No reason not to assume he will be better with some help if needed and another year of seasoning.
He was not the reason the Giants lost to Green Bay in the playoffs.
Constantly parking Ellison next to him takes a potential receiver out of the play, and also acts as a tell. While having a good blocking tight end helps, it isn't a solution.
Agree terps..offense becomes predictable then
I've got the Mortar calculated and ready to fire
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The lack of a blocking TE or Fullback on the roster last year left Flowers alone on an island. He struggled as a result. He played well in the preseason game so that's a positive.
I think the OL situation is a little overplayed. Guys are going to get beat on occasion by talented guys on the opposite side of the line. The Giants were 11-5 last year with Flowers anchoring the left side my himself. No reason not to assume he will be better with some help if needed and another year of seasoning.
He was not the reason the Giants lost to Green Bay in the playoffs.
Constantly parking Ellison next to him takes a potential receiver out of the play, and also acts as a tell. While having a good blocking tight end helps, it isn't a solution.
It's not simply planting Ellison next to Flowers and leaving him there for the duration, and while that may take a potential receiver out of the play when they do it, it just might open things up for another potential receiver, especially those that can get off the line quickly and make things happen.
The Giants have been experimenting with all kinds of personnel groupings this offseason, much more so than they have in the recent past. Multiple TEs and so forth. Seems to me they're trying to be a lot less predictable on offense than they were last year, and "tells" can sometimes be very misleading.
Yeah, could move Jerry to LG, since he's better at pass blocking, and Flowers to RG.
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In comment 13560900 AnnapolisMike said:
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The lack of a blocking TE or Fullback on the roster last year left Flowers alone on an island. He struggled as a result. He played well in the preseason game so that's a positive.
I think the OL situation is a little overplayed. Guys are going to get beat on occasion by talented guys on the opposite side of the line. The Giants were 11-5 last year with Flowers anchoring the left side my himself. No reason not to assume he will be better with some help if needed and another year of seasoning.
He was not the reason the Giants lost to Green Bay in the playoffs.
Constantly parking Ellison next to him takes a potential receiver out of the play, and also acts as a tell. While having a good blocking tight end helps, it isn't a solution.
It's not simply planting Ellison next to Flowers and leaving him there for the duration, and while that may take a potential receiver out of the play when they do it, it just might open things up for another potential receiver, especially those that can get off the line quickly and make things happen.
The Giants have been experimenting with all kinds of personnel groupings this offseason, much more so than they have in the recent past. Multiple TEs and so forth. Seems to me they're trying to be a lot less predictable on offense than they were last year, and "tells" can sometimes be very misleading.
Exactly, Ellison is not going to be a 6th OL. But he can be there to help or release. The Giants had NO ONE last season to help. It's going to be a weekly matchup call as well. If they think he will need help....they will game plan that.
Yup. The only other possibility is to give him help with a TE or FB.
I still have faith that BOTH of our young OT's will improve enough to be considered at least serviceable, especially HART who has been the more consistent in camp.
I'd like to see PUGH get some snaps at LT though.
Don't see him as an upgrade to Flowers.
Might buy us a few weeks until the opposing defenses figure it out...
Have backs chip block the outside rusher (to Flowers' left) so that there is no easy path around him.
Draw and screen plays to the left side.
DE's that like to run around OTs will get beat up by Flowers' strength, and will be out of position for the draw/screen plays. They also tend not to be as good at rushing the QB when they've been beat up in the run game.
Think "Osi" during his last year with the Giants.
Other than that, it's on the coaches to get Flowers ready to play at an acceptable level......"coach 'em up!"
Thus far, we can't even make them average at one position. Versatility seems light years ahead...
1) Swap him and Pugh, but the question is "can he play guard?". Do we give the LG spot to Fluker, Gettis or Biz instead?
2) Hope a veteran FA shakes loose at cuts. Deal with Flowers while that person gets up to speed with the offense.
3) Trade for one. A LT for a team that seems desperate would be costly.
As of right now he needs to play better. You can see there aren't many other options.
idinkido : 2:26 pm : link : reply
gives up too much penetration and allows runners to be stopped in backfield. That is why we run up the middle when we do run.
We ran the ball "up the middle" the least out of all the splits. More than 65% of the runs were outside the Tackles or off-tackle.
Biteymax22 : 3:53 pm : link : reply
Really we have to look at it like this.
1) Swap him and Pugh, but the question is "can he play guard?". Do we give the LG spot to Fluker, Gettis or Biz instead?
2) Hope a veteran FA shakes loose at cuts. Deal with Flowers while that person gets up to speed with the offense.
3) Trade for one. A LT for a team that seems desperate would be costly.
As of right now he needs to play better. You can see there aren't many other options.
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But, yes, this was a constant rant pre-draft, why we might want to to grab a very early round guard and maybe a center also.
Funny how that works every year.
Say he doesnt perform the first adjustment I would make would be to put him at RT. Move Pugh back to LT, Jerry goes to LG and Hart slides inside to RG.
Another option would be to keep a tight end next to him to protect the edge a little more. Ellison is a blocker, not a receiver, he was brought here to block. they didnt give him 4yr/$16 to ride the bench. he will be an inline blocker helping both Flowers and Hart. If they both struggle come out in a singleback big set (2TE inline and 2 WR wide)
Or he gets benched. Pugh to LT, Fluker to LG.
last year 68% of NYG running plays were mid-guards.
FO running play stats - ( New Window )
That would mean the last two OLTs the Giants drafted failed at OLT. Probably why they prefer to build their OL through FA. The blue chip OLTs never seem to fall to them. And they don't trade up for them.
That's a lot of "ifs", though.
or obviously the time factor - too frequent dump downs which can lead to the T'ing off on receivers and injury
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The probeem with running the ball thru Flowers is that the OL
idinkido : 2:26 pm : link : reply
gives up too much penetration and allows runners to be stopped in backfield. That is why we run up the middle when we do run.
We ran the ball "up the middle" the least out of all the splits. More than 65% of the runs were outside the Tackles or off-tackle.
That doesn't sound right if it was based on 2016. Majority of carries had to be to the inside based on my recollection...
last year 68% of NYG running plays were mid-guards. FO running play stats - ( New Window )
now that sounds more reasonable. good find...