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8/15 Training Camp Observations

Sy'56 : 8/15/2017 4:10 pm
Last day of camp for Gidie and I. Cloudy, comfortable temperature with some rain towards the end of practice.

-K Mike Nugent missed a couple FGs from 40ish today. Rosas

OFFENSE NOTES

-Good to see RB Shaun Draughn out there today. He didn’t get involved in the team/full speed drills but he caught some balls and showed his burst up field. I wouldn’t expect to see him on the field in Cleveland Monday night.

-Also good to see WR Tavarres King participating in the group drills. He, too, stayed out of live action. I’ve grown to appreciate having him as the #4/5 WR on this team, as some of the other guys struggled to separate over the past week. King brings some confidence and security to the position behind the top 3 guys.

-We got to watch WR vs. CB drills near the end zone. Offense had the ball on the 5 yard line and the CB was left on an island, no help in any direction. A tough task to say the least. CB Eli Apple had a physical beat on WR Keeon Johnson, a physical guy in his own right, on an inside slant. WR Brandon Marshall toyed with CB Valentino Blake a couple times, something I have gotten used to seeing. Good to see WR Odell Beckham and CB Janoris Jenkins go head to head a couple times. They split. Those two are at the top of their games already. CB Donte Deayon got beat every time from what I saw, his lack of physical presence in that spot shows up.

-The first play of 7 on 7 with half the line going live offered the play of the day. QB Eli Manning threw a lob-ish type pass to WR Brandon Marshall, CB Apple was all over him but Marshall fended him off and trapped the ball against his body with one arm while on the move. Even more impressive ball by Eli.

-TE Evan Engram beat…DT Jay Bromley….for a nice TD catch where he showed top tier footwork in the back of the end zone.

-The gap between John Jerry’s pass blocking and run blocking has been discussed, and it is definitely credible. He handled the bull rush of DT Bromley with ease all day, , but doesn’t get the movement off the line as a run blocker.

-The Jarron Jones experiment at OT has not be a pleasant one to watch. Again, a very difficult move to make. However Jones has been getting beat all day every day by anyone that lines up across from him.

-The running game is very hard to gauge right now. My initial thought is RB Pail Perskins has had zero room to run anywhere. The inside lanes are non-existent and he just seems lost. He can’t find any creases to sneak through and it may be because they don’t exist.

DEFENSE NOTES

-DE Avery Moss seems to be getting more and more comfortable out there. I don’t expect him to be active on game days unless injuries arise, however it is easy to see why this team liked him. He has a frame that is going to easily handle 15-20 more pounds. He made a freakishly athletic pass deflection when dropping in to coverage against QB Davis Webb.

-This is a repeat statement, but CB Janoris Jenkins out-physicaled WR Marshall a couple times. And he moved well with WR Beckham on slant routes. He can do it all.

-CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie is like an extra coach out there. He takes the young guys under his wings after they make mistakes as much as anyone. You can tell they are limiting him in practice, as he is showing signs of being fragile. But he is a crucial part of this defense.

-The new LB, Steven Daniels, earned a draftable grade from me in 2016. I like those 3-4 thumpers. He saw time on specials today but nothing on live defense.

-S Darian Thompson looks like he is in the right place usually, a good start. He failed to intcercept a pass that Manning basically threw right to him. Still very unsure about him.

-As I have said before, I think the top 4 CBs on this defense are better than any top 4 in the NFL, and I am very confident in that statement. What they have after that, however, is pretty much what we see around the league. An underachieving veteran (Blake) and young guys trying to stick despite glaring weaknesses that starting WRs will eat up (Deayon, Amos, Tribune). If you had to take 2 of those on the 53 man, I am going Amos and Tribune.

-S Landon Collins had an illness, thus did not practice. Good for Nat Berhe and Eric Pinkins to get a few more snaps. Pinkins was late to the sideline because, as we have said, he struggles to quickly read and react. He takes too many steps to change direction and get going.

3 STANDOUTS

-LB Calvin Munson: Coincidentally Munson got some snaps with the first string today with Goodson getting nicked up (which didn’t look too serious). He broke through the line twice for quick TFL’s. Not good for the OL but very good for Munson, whom is getting more comfortable with the playbook. He is going to make this team.

-WR Sterling Shepard: He was all out today, fully involved with the offense. Good for him and this passing game, as the options are plentiful. Shepard is a guy that can really do well in the short passing game, which we are going to see a lot of.

-OG Justin Pugh: All the negative talk about the OL, we can’t overlook Pugh. He is a very consistent, reliable guy inside that does the little things right. I put the eyeball on him as he single teamed DT Damon Harrison a couple times. Stayed low with knee bend, chopping his feet and knees, and constantly adjusting his hands to keep them inside. I am very curious to see how they handle his upcoming contract situation.

*All, thanks for the feedback on the reports….I appreciate the criticisms more than anything. We will see where all of this goes, but I hope you enjoyed the camp reports.

Below is today’s video report and interview with Calvin Munson (we had to be brief)

August 15 Video
Thanks Sy..  
Big Blue '56 : 8/15/2017 4:15 pm : link
What Pro would you compare Munson's skillset to? That is, in terms of potential
Time running out for this OL. I hope they can turn it around  
Blue21 : 8/15/2017 4:19 pm : link
this year. If not Front office will take a lot of heat.
Anything on LB Curtis Grant?  
prdave73 : 8/15/2017 4:19 pm : link
I like what I saw from him in the 1st preseason game.
A DT covering a TE?  
RinR : 8/15/2017 4:22 pm : link
Not surprised by the outcome.

Quote:
-TE Evan Engram beat…DT Jay Bromley….for a nice TD catch
Sy and gidiefor thanks  
section125 : 8/15/2017 4:23 pm : link
for the great reports, Appreciated all the time and effort and I am sorry these reports will end.

Enjoy your free time now, although I suspect you'd like to stay on the sidelines to observe.
Get ready for another frustrating season of  
Brown Recluse : 8/15/2017 4:24 pm : link
crappy OL play.
How can a guy  
Gman11 : 8/15/2017 4:28 pm : link
as big as Jerry be so bad at run blocking?
Thanks Guys  
Fred-in-Florida : 8/15/2017 5:12 pm : link
Really looked forward to your reports everyday!
We will be ok at OL...  
Thinblueline : 8/15/2017 5:16 pm : link
The addition of a fullback and improved blocking from our new TE's will make us improved up front... Still would like them to keep one back up QB (Webb) and keep an extra TE...
Great Reports  
noro9 : 8/15/2017 5:48 pm : link
Sy. Thank you
I always hate reaching the end of your reports!  
CT Charlie : 8/15/2017 6:00 pm : link
By the way, at the top you chopped off what you were going to say about Rosas. Clearly Nugent didn't help himself today.
Backup Cornerbacks  
Jimmy Googs : 8/15/2017 6:00 pm : link
Hopefully Hunter is solid at the #4 CB spot. With DRC being "managed" thru the season, it will be important that Hunter holds up reasonably well as he will get plenty of snaps.

The others...Blake, Deayon, Amos, etc. are just god awful. If they have to play with the game in doubt, they are just going to be human bulls-eyes.

Unfortunately, none of our Free Safeties really can play CB if needed. That would have been a nice add if we picked one up in the draft this past year as there were plenty....

Sy....thanks.  
George from PA : 8/15/2017 6:01 pm : link
I presume the 4th corner is Hunter.

would the OL be better with Pugh at LT?
Fabulous contribution guys  
Lowell : 8/15/2017 6:04 pm : link
So much appreciated.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/15/2017 6:06 pm : link
Did the Giants find another gem in rookie free agency in Munson?
Great reports!  
Steve in South Jersey : 8/15/2017 6:08 pm : link
sorry that this is the last one.
Good stuff  
Johnny5 : 8/15/2017 6:09 pm : link
Thanks Sy. It was really cool to see how comfortable Munson looked out there vs. Pitt. Definitely rooting for him.
Rosas comments are cut off  
adamg : 8/15/2017 6:40 pm : link
Was there more to that?

Thanks as always. Brightest spot of the day...
RE: Rosas comments are cut off  
gidiefor : Mod : 8/15/2017 6:46 pm : link
In comment 13561595 adamg said:
Quote:
Was there more to that?

Thanks as always. Brightest spot of the day...


no -- Sy just said Rosas -- implying that he was going to win that battle -- if Rosas doesn't do himself in - he's a much more solid kicker than Nugent -- no doubt about it

Imagine having a kicker who is a virtual guarantee for a 60 yd Field goal -- that's a luxury weapon the Giants have never had -- that's Rosas. It also means that the Giants only need to get to the 50 yd line to score
RE: RE: Rosas comments are cut off  
Diver_Down : 8/15/2017 6:53 pm : link
In comment 13561602 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 13561595 adamg said:


Quote:


Was there more to that?

Thanks as always. Brightest spot of the day...



no -- Sy just said Rosas -- implying that he was going to win that battle -- if Rosas doesn't do himself in - he's a much more solid kicker than Nugent -- no doubt about it

Imagine having a kicker who is a virtual guarantee for a 60 yd Field goal -- that's a luxury weapon the Giants have never had -- that's Rosas. It also means that the Giants only need to get to the 50 yd line to score


Hopefully, Rosas is our equivalent to the Cowboys Bailey. There were many drives that stalled for Dallas where Bailey was automatic points for them.
RE: RE: Rosas comments are cut off  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/15/2017 6:57 pm : link
In comment 13561602 gidiefor said:
Quote:

Imagine having a kicker who is a virtual guarantee for a 60 yd Field goal -- that's a luxury weapon the Giants have never had -- that's Rosas.



Uhh...
Sy Thanks for The Reports  
Biteymax22 : 8/15/2017 7:18 pm : link
Reading the stuff from you and Dave Te' ever since the draft has really taken this board to another level. Going to miss getting the practice reviews from a scouts eyes.

Interesting comment about Moss being able to add 15-20lbs. Was staying in the same hotel as the team and saw him in person, my first impression was he was taller and thinner than listed, very long arms. Do you see him improving as a pass rusher or developing into a run stuffer as he grows?

Also, can't help but think of Strahan when I see a long armed DE who excels in hand control.
RE: RE: Rosas comments are cut off  
adamg : 8/15/2017 7:53 pm : link
In comment 13561602 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 13561595 adamg said:


Quote:


Was there more to that?

Thanks as always. Brightest spot of the day...



no -- Sy just said Rosas -- implying that he was going to win that battle -- if Rosas doesn't do himself in - he's a much more solid kicker than Nugent -- no doubt about it

Imagine having a kicker who is a virtual guarantee for a 60 yd Field goal -- that's a luxury weapon the Giants have never had -- that's Rosas. It also means that the Giants only need to get to the 50 yd line to score


Thanks.

Glad to see Rosas pan out like it appeared he might. It would be so nice to give McAdoo another option from the 39 yard line rather than have Wing kick those (granted good) but ultimately not ideal punts late in the game.
Thanks  
AcidTest : 8/15/2017 8:03 pm : link
for your reports Sy'. Great work. Fantastic.
So now going forward  
The_Boss : 8/15/2017 8:15 pm : link
The only times we'll witness Flowers struggling will be on gamedays.
Thank you gents  
Optimus-NY : 8/15/2017 8:43 pm : link
gifefor and Sy'56 are to be thanked and commended.
Camp reports.............  
Blue Moon : 8/15/2017 8:45 pm : link
ok just read what has been written about our O line the last six seasons...............conclusion.

Poor Eli.......the GM still doesn't get it.
RE: Camp reports.............  
Diver_Down : 8/15/2017 8:55 pm : link
In comment 13561710 Blue Moon said:
Quote:
ok just read what has been written about our O line the last six seasons...............conclusion.

Poor Eli.......the GM still doesn't get it.


And yet he'll get a pass by his defenders. It's also the primary motivation that I advocated for Eli holding out after the draft. Consider it an advancement of future roster bonuses as hazard pay. The holdout would last 30 minutes while Mara shakes Tisch down for an advance while telling Jerry to get his fucking shinebox.
Thanks Guys!  
lono801 : 8/15/2017 9:55 pm : link
Great stuff from camp...you both should be proud...Congrats

This is one of the best off seasons on BBI...

Huge thanks to Eric as well...

Amazing job all the way around
Sy, you've made this one of the most enjoyable Giants camps for me.  
TC : 8/15/2017 11:16 pm : link
Thanks for all your fine work!
RE: Anything on LB Curtis Grant?  
Sy'56 : 8/15/2017 11:17 pm : link
In comment 13561430 prdave73 said:
Quote:
I like what I saw from him in the 1st preseason game.


I actually had a few notes on Grant from today.

He is really physical and big. Good downhill guy, plays the straight line game well. He doesnt seem to have the instincts or quick lateral twitch. I think there is a shot he makes it as a backup strong side guy.
RE: Sy....thanks.  
Sy'56 : 8/15/2017 11:18 pm : link
In comment 13561558 George from PA said:
Quote:
I presume the 4th corner is Hunter.

would the OL be better with Pugh at LT?


Good question.

At this point...No. Have to sink or swim with what they have and hope the chemistry between these guys can improve their level of play. Pugh MIGHT be a better LT than Flowers, but I don't think there is an OG that can step in.
RE: Sy Thanks for The Reports  
Sy'56 : 8/15/2017 11:19 pm : link
In comment 13561618 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
Reading the stuff from you and Dave Te' ever since the draft has really taken this board to another level. Going to miss getting the practice reviews from a scouts eyes.

Interesting comment about Moss being able to add 15-20lbs. Was staying in the same hotel as the team and saw him in person, my first impression was he was taller and thinner than listed, very long arms. Do you see him improving as a pass rusher or developing into a run stuffer as he grows?

Also, can't help but think of Strahan when I see a long armed DE who excels in hand control.


There is an upside to Moss that neither Wynn or Okwara have, but not this year.
Eve. with that report on Jones  
Matt M. : 8/16/2017 6:04 am : link
I would think he is headed to the practice squad. It would be shitty to ask him to change positions and then cut him out right after one camp.
Can't run if there are no holes or creases  
jeff57 : 8/16/2017 7:55 am : link
That simple.
And in conclusion  
grizz299 : 8/16/2017 8:28 am : link
There is a grace and competency to Sy's writing that is seamless effortless and makes most of the professionals seem clumbsy and amateurish.
There was a time when Grantland Rice, Damon Ruyon and even the more modern Jerry Isenberg were writers - superb writers who happened to write about sports.
Sy might not have the same literacy, but he doesn't have to, what he's got is special in it's own right and efficent.
And then there's a special competency and background that only a scout should have. He's believable and convincing - much more so than all the experts and all the ex players on all the tv and radio show.
The guy is that damn good.
Thanks for these reports Sy and Gidie,  
Section331 : 8/16/2017 9:07 am : link
they're great! Great to hear that Odell and Jackrabbit are on top of their games, is this the year Jackrabbit establishes himself as the NFL's best corner? It's not out of the question.

GREAT news about Shepard, so glad to hear he's playing well. With all of the weapons in this passing game, he could have a huge impact.
Always look forward to your stuff, Sy.  
Racer : 8/16/2017 9:09 am : link
These camp reports are hugely appreciated.

Did you notice any offensive formations in camp that we haven't seen much of in the McAdoo era? I noticed a trips right with Engram flexed at Y in one of the videos, for example.
These reports were fantastic.  
Ryan in Albany : 8/16/2017 9:22 am : link
Thanks for the great work. Looking forward to reports in the future.
RE: Always look forward to your stuff, Sy.  
Sy'56 : 8/16/2017 9:32 am : link
In comment 13561942 Racer said:
Quote:
These camp reports are hugely appreciated.

Did you notice any offensive formations in camp that we haven't seen much of in the McAdoo era? I noticed a trips right with Engram flexed at Y in one of the videos, for example.


I didn't want to step on any toes by going too in-depth about their formations. But I will say the variety on BOTH sides of the ball is plentiful when it comes to pre snap looks. They are more versatile than they've ever been over the past 10 years. Both sides of the ball
RE: RE: Always look forward to your stuff, Sy.  
Racer : 8/16/2017 9:59 am : link
In comment 13561968 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13561942 Racer said:


Quote:


These camp reports are hugely appreciated.

Did you notice any offensive formations in camp that we haven't seen much of in the McAdoo era? I noticed a trips right with Engram flexed at Y in one of the videos, for example.



I didn't want to step on any toes by going too in-depth about their formations. But I will say the variety on BOTH sides of the ball is plentiful when it comes to pre snap looks. They are more versatile than they've ever been over the past 10 years. Both sides of the ball


Good deal, I get it, and good news, thanks!

Actually I remember it now, it was three on the left side with wider splits than I remembered; Engram went up the seam for a pretty TD against Goodson.
Munson  
Chuckstar : 8/16/2017 10:22 am : link
How could you not like that name in NY. I'm pulling for him, at least as a ST addition.
RE: Munson  
Fred-in-Florida : 8/16/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13562046 Chuckstar said:
Quote:
How could you not like that name in NY. I'm pulling for him, at least as a ST addition.


What about Bobby Richardson! Not the same as Munson with his tragic death, but he was a pretty good 2nd basemen in his own right. He was my favorite growing up, Beside Mantle and Berra.
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