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How did Giants Ereck Flowers fare in practice Tuesday?

Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/16/2017 8:48 am
Art Stapleton filmed every snap (video at the top)...
How did Giants left tackle Ereck Flowers fare in practice Tuesday? Watch for yourself - ( New Window )
Maybe I am missing something  
robbieballs2003 : 8/16/2017 8:59 am : link
But all I see is a picture of Flowers, a poll on Flowers, and a video of Marshall's session with reporters.
I looked at it. Quick thoughts...  
Jimmy Googs : 8/16/2017 9:04 am : link
- watching our guys run-block is just painful...painful
- Flowers seems to be really trying to keep his hands inside, but he gives up way too much ground
- Any time the Defensive End really "tried" to pass rush, Flowers couldn't stop him

Others?

I don't know  
ryanmkeane : 8/16/2017 9:10 am : link
a lick about OL technique to comment but, seems like there were some bright spots there and some not so good (against speed on the outside).

Seems like when he engages early, it's over for the D lineman. But when he stutters a little and has to tread backward, that's when he struggles.
Then  
ryanmkeane : 8/16/2017 9:10 am : link
again I'm not sure if that's much different than any other massive OL. Treading backward against speed is usually never a good ending.
RE: Maybe I am missing something  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/16/2017 9:16 am : link
In comment 13561935 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
But all I see is a picture of Flowers, a poll on Flowers, and a video of Marshall's session with reporters.


Video is at the top of the article.
Thanks.  
robbieballs2003 : 8/16/2017 9:23 am : link
I just saw that. If I was coaching Flowers the first thing I do is get him to sink his ass. That leads to him getting off balance, not being able to change direction, and getting bull rushed. A lot of those run plays at the end his ass is higher than every other OL's helmet and then he is catching the defender instead of attacking the defender. To me, everything starts with your stance and while his stance is different than last year (his legs were so far apart, I never saw anything like that before) it is not helping him out at all. There was run run play in there where his legs are so straight and he bent at his waist with his head down and he wiffed so bad.
I'll start paying attention to him when he plays in regular  
Big Blue '56 : 8/16/2017 9:23 am : link
season games with consistent snaps, consistent linemates and a blocking TE that can finally help out. Otherwise, FOR ME, not much to see here. Yet.
I can not remember 1 player  
larryflower37 : 8/16/2017 9:24 am : link
having this level of scrutiny on him. The kid is only 23 years and the pressure must be unreal.
I find myself rooting for him more and more. I hope he proves everyone wrong and has a tremendous season.
So what did he do wrong? I thought he looked fine.  
PatersonPlank : 8/16/2017 9:25 am : link
His guy never got to Eli. Sure 2 times he had to guide the guy around behind Eli, but that always happens and is standard Tackle play. You don't always get the guy at the LOS.

This is turning into a witch hunt. Put the video on another player all practice and see how he does.
RE: I can not remember 1 player  
robbieballs2003 : 8/16/2017 9:30 am : link
In comment 13561957 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
having this level of scrutiny on him. The kid is only 23 years and the pressure must be unreal.
I find myself rooting for him more and more. I hope he proves everyone wrong and has a tremendous season.


To play devil's advocate, I cannot remember the last time a player has played such an important position without earning it over a three year period. There has never been competition brought in for him. He has performed horribly. He still suffers from the same issues that plagued him his rookie year. But, yet, every other player on this team gets criticized by the HC including Eli but Flowers is either defended or the blame is deflected onto other players.

I don't think anybody wants him to fail. I think most are just frustrated that whem you are a high first round pick your have to show improvement. Everybody keeps talking Super Bowl. We have such an amazing team. The one thing that can derail this team is our OL and him being the LT and high first round pick he will get most of the attention. It is not unwarranted.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/16/2017 9:31 am : link
I know he's a key cog for this team right now but I feel bad for him in that he's under a ridiculous amount of scrutiny. He has a lot on his shoulders and I'm sure he's working as hard as he can to get better. I have some serious concerns that it'll be enough - it just sucks that every practice has turned into "The State of Ereck Flowers"
Flowers  
NNJ Tom : 8/16/2017 9:32 am : link
not so bad.

The stupid background music, awful. Do they have to listen to that crap all day in practice?
Awkward  
Percy : 8/16/2017 9:42 am : link
Unimpressive guy. Going to be a long year at LT.
RE: So what did he do wrong? I thought he looked fine.  
ryanmkeane : 8/16/2017 9:52 am : link
In comment 13561959 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:

This is turning into a witch hunt. Put the video on another player all practice and see how he does.

Good call. I'm sure Beckham repeatedly burns Apple or whoever else. Nobody reports it. Yet Flowers gives up a sack to Vernon and the sky is falling.
RE: Thanks.  
Gman11 : 8/16/2017 9:52 am : link
In comment 13561955 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
To me, everything starts with your stance and while his stance is different than last year (his legs were so far apart, I never saw anything like that before) it is not helping him out at all.
It seems I read quite a long time ago where Vince Lombardi yelled at a lineman during practice, "You can't do anything with that stance. You can't go forward. You can't go backward. The only thing you can do in that stance is take a shit."
......  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 8/16/2017 10:03 am : link
I know it's only 1 preseason game to go on, but if we were to use that to gauge O-line problems....

Jerry and Richberg are bigger problems than flowers.
RE: I can not remember 1 player  
JCin332 : 8/16/2017 10:08 am : link
In comment 13561957 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
having this level of scrutiny on him. The kid is only 23 years and the pressure must be unreal.
I find myself rooting for him more and more. I hope he proves everyone wrong and has a tremendous season.


I can think of one player who continues to get a ridiculous level of scrutiny and that is Eli...

As far as Flowers on that video I didn't think he looked that bad...also they weren't even in full pads and it looked they weren't even going 100%...
RE: So what did he do wrong? I thought he looked fine.  
RinR : 8/16/2017 10:09 am : link
In comment 13561959 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
His guy never got to Eli. Sure 2 times he had to guide the guy around behind Eli, but that always happens and is standard Tackle play. You don't always get the guy at the LOS.

This is turning into a witch hunt. Put the video on another player all practice and see how he does.


+1000 Couldn't agree more
For all the hand-wringing  
area junc : 8/16/2017 10:27 am : link
the most important thing is Flowers looked much improved from a technique standpoint in the game.

We can speculate all we want on practice but it's not live. According to coaches, Flowers' issue has been demonstrating proper technique in practice but then reverting back to bad habits when real bullets fly. He showed, at least last week, he is applying his technique in games.

And this is coming from someone who thinks he's an All Pro RG playing out of position.
He looked effective...  
Johnny5 : 8/16/2017 10:54 am : link
... to my eyes. Does he look awkward? Yeah... but the guy is Gigantic. Honestly the only thing I can add is I'm not sure why they don't make these lineman trim some body fat and work more on their flexibility and quickness. He has plenty of size and strength to anchor. But maybe they are already doing that.
I sure hope he doesn't read the media reports...  
Reb8thVA : 8/16/2017 11:01 am : link
because as a 23 year old he is almost certain to crack under the scrutiny of the fake news media. (i couldn't resist). The only thing he can do is focus, keep at it, and not let the bastards grind him down to quote Vinegar Joe Stillwell.
I've been critical of Flowers, but aren't they in shells there?  
widmerseyebrow : 8/16/2017 11:04 am : link
If so, I'd take any conclusions drawn from that video, good or bad, with a grain of salt.
One thing that concerns me is his reputation for holding.  
BigBlue in Keys : 8/16/2017 11:10 am : link
It seemed to me, by years end especially, the refs were calling some ticky tack holding penalties against him. Granted there were plenty of times the calls were legit, and he does have a tendency to hold. But I don't want the refs to have it in their minds the guy holds and therefore they are looking for it.

I'm cheering for the kid.
Is Flowers...  
M.S. : 8/16/2017 11:25 am : link

...blooming?

RE: I'll start paying attention to him when he plays in regular  
barens : 8/16/2017 11:41 am : link
In comment 13561956 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
season games with consistent snaps, consistent linemates and a blocking TE that can finally help out. Otherwise, FOR ME, not much to see here. Yet.


I don't know, when the coaching staff puts a rookie in (Chad Wheeler) your spot for a full practice, one would think that would light a fire under Flowers.
RE: RE: I'll start paying attention to him when he plays in regular  
larryflower37 : 8/16/2017 11:47 am : link
In comment 13562149 barens said:
Quote:
In comment 13561956 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


season games with consistent snaps, consistent linemates and a blocking TE that can finally help out. Otherwise, FOR ME, not much to see here. Yet.



I don't know, when the coaching staff puts a rookie in (Chad Wheeler) your spot for a full practice, one would think that would light a fire under Flowers.


Come on that's jumping to conclusions on why the jumped Wheeler up in practice.
It could have been a hundred reason on why they gave him time with the 1's other than Flowers performance.
And another thing  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 8/16/2017 12:30 pm : link
Don't most OL's look like shit vs our front 4?
Looks like Flowers may have been a huge reach and miscalculation with  
TMS : 8/16/2017 12:55 pm : link
the 9th pick in the draft. The CONSENSUS got it wrong and shit happens. Hope I am wrong.
ALL CAPS  
idiotsavant : 8/16/2017 2:48 pm : link
wahoo, yipee
RE: RE: I can not remember 1 player  
LauderdaleMatty : 8/16/2017 3:06 pm : link
In comment 13561964 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13561957 larryflower37 said:


Quote:


having this level of scrutiny on him. The kid is only 23 years and the pressure must be unreal.
I find myself rooting for him more and more. I hope he proves everyone wrong and has a tremendous season.



To play devil's advocate, I cannot remember the last time a player has played such an important position without earning it over a three year period. There has never been competition brought in for him. He has performed horribly. He still suffers from the same issues that plagued him his rookie year. But, yet, every other player on this team gets criticized by the HC including Eli but Flowers is either defended or the blame is deflected onto other players.

I don't think anybody wants him to fail. I think most are just frustrated that whem you are a high first round pick your have to show improvement. Everybody keeps talking Super Bowl. We have such an amazing team. The one thing that can derail this team is our OL and him being the LT and high first round pick he will get most of the attention. It is not unwarranted.


Good post. But then place Blame where it lies and belongs. Reese and the FO. This OL as a whole lacks talent and depth. suggestikns to flip Pugh out a LT leave that G spot a lot worse. Interesting times and the Chinese Proverb says.
RE: RE: I'll start paying attention to him when he plays in regular  
section125 : 8/16/2017 4:09 pm : link
In comment 13562149 barens said:
Quote:
In comment 13561956 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:
I don't know, when the coaching staff puts a rookie in (Chad Wheeler) your spot for a full practice, one would think that would light a fire under Flowers.


When did that happen?

answer:
It didn't happen. Wheeler got some snaps with the 1st team.
BB 56  
Stratman : 8/16/2017 4:31 pm : link
Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
RE: RE: RE: I can not remember 1 player  
robbieballs2003 : 8/16/2017 4:58 pm : link
In comment 13562353 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 13561964 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 13561957 larryflower37 said:


Quote:


having this level of scrutiny on him. The kid is only 23 years and the pressure must be unreal.
I find myself rooting for him more and more. I hope he proves everyone wrong and has a tremendous season.



To play devil's advocate, I cannot remember the last time a player has played such an important position without earning it over a three year period. There has never been competition brought in for him. He has performed horribly. He still suffers from the same issues that plagued him his rookie year. But, yet, every other player on this team gets criticized by the HC including Eli but Flowers is either defended or the blame is deflected onto other players.

I don't think anybody wants him to fail. I think most are just frustrated that whem you are a high first round pick your have to show improvement. Everybody keeps talking Super Bowl. We have such an amazing team. The one thing that can derail this team is our OL and him being the LT and high first round pick he will get most of the attention. It is not unwarranted.



Good post. But then place Blame where it lies and belongs. Reese and the FO. This OL as a whole lacks talent and depth. suggestikns to flip Pugh out a LT leave that G spot a lot worse. Interesting times and the Chinese Proverb says.


It is a combination of things. The front office has addressed the OL. However, I think they need to look at how they evaluate college linemen. Imo, like WR, most receivers that have early success are great route runners. What I am trying to say is that I think too much is put on upside with players and their measurables. Give me the OL that has great technique coming out of college. Every coach is arrogant in the fact they think they can coach anybody up. Beckham was a great route runner, as was Shep, Steve Smith, and Nicks (supposedly). Remember how bad we were at drafting WRs forever? We had how many Tim Carters?

Lets look at the OL. How many guys have we drafted that never worked out? Why is that? Well, it is never one reason. To me it is a combination of our scouting, management, and coaches. Maybe the way we evaluate linemen needs to change. Maybe we overdrafted OL based on need. Maybe our coaches aren't developing them. When our line was good we had Diehl who I think was a 5th round pick and Suebert who was undrafted. After that is was NOBODY. The next low draft pick or undrafted FA to play well for us was probably Hart. As I am typing this Boothe comes to mind but I don't remember how we acquired him. Still, Hart has had some success. Why? He was a four year player at Florida State who got by with technique because he was a little undersized and not strong. So, to me, it is too hard to come into the NFL and have to learn proper technique along with all the other things a player does. Just like WR, there is so much to learn that trying to learn how to run specific routes just totally slows down the learning process overall. I am not saying that it cannot be done but it makes it more difficult.
very good  
idiotsavant : 8/16/2017 5:05 pm : link
in addition, there are almost always second and third round -guards- that read:

"strong as crap .....'very good technique, hard worker and good learner"

if one is willing to draft an inch sorter, or a tad slower in the 40, or less great school-from'....

thus it will soon be three straight years of ranting 'Pugh to OLT' and getting told to 'shut up flowers is the OLT.'
sorter = shorter  
idiotsavant : 8/16/2017 5:06 pm : link
.
Boothe was a veteran free agent I believe  
idiotsavant : 8/16/2017 5:11 pm : link
.
Please, please,  
oldog : 8/16/2017 5:14 pm : link
get off this kid's case. Don't project your overwrought expectations on him, don't think you have the right to criticise him every time he scratches his nose, just chill, mind your own business for a while and LEAVE HIM BE.
Maybe some of you might best be served to log into BBI  
Jimmy Googs : 8/16/2017 5:26 pm : link
about once a month if the topics/issues are so exacerbating...
RE: RE: RE: RE: I can not remember 1 player  
LauderdaleMatty : 8/16/2017 5:30 pm : link
In comment 13562481 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13562353 LauderdaleMatty said:


Quote:


In comment 13561964 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 13561957 larryflower37 said:


Quote:


having this level of scrutiny on him. The kid is only 23 years and the pressure must be unreal.
I find myself rooting for him more and more. I hope he proves everyone wrong and has a tremendous season.



To play devil's advocate, I cannot remember the last time a player has played such an important position without earning it over a three year period. There has never been competition brought in for him. He has performed horribly. He still suffers from the same issues that plagued him his rookie year. But, yet, every other player on this team gets criticized by the HC including Eli but Flowers is either defended or the blame is deflected onto other players.

I don't think anybody wants him to fail. I think most are just frustrated that whem you are a high first round pick your have to show improvement. Everybody keeps talking Super Bowl. We have such an amazing team. The one thing that can derail this team is our OL and him being the LT and high first round pick he will get most of the attention. It is not unwarranted.



Good post. But then place Blame where it lies and belongs. Reese and the FO. This OL as a whole lacks talent and depth. suggestikns to flip Pugh out a LT leave that G spot a lot worse. Interesting times and the Chinese Proverb says.



It is a combination of things. The front office has addressed the OL. However, I think they need to look at how they evaluate college linemen. Imo, like WR, most receivers that have early success are great route runners. What I am trying to say is that I think too much is put on upside with players and their measurables. Give me the OL that has great technique coming out of college. Every coach is arrogant in the fact they think they can coach anybody up. Beckham was a great route runner, as was Shep, Steve Smith, and Nicks (supposedly). Remember how bad we were at drafting WRs forever? We had how many Tim Carters?

Lets look at the OL. How many guys have we drafted that never worked out? Why is that? Well, it is never one reason. To me it is a combination of our scouting, management, and coaches. Maybe the way we evaluate linemen needs to change. Maybe we overdrafted OL based on need. Maybe our coaches aren't developing them. When our line was good we had Diehl who I think was a 5th round pick and Suebert who was undrafted. After that is was NOBODY. The next low draft pick or undrafted FA to play well for us was probably Hart. As I am typing this Boothe comes to mind but I don't remember how we acquired him. Still, Hart has had some success. Why? He was a four year player at Florida State who got by with technique because he was a little undersized and not strong. So, to me, it is too hard to come into the NFL and have to learn proper technique along with all the other things a player does. Just like WR, there is so much to learn that trying to learn how to run specific routes just totally slows down the learning process overall. I am not saying that it cannot be done but it makes it more difficult.


Great post. And I agree. It's never just one thing. I think the genesis of THE OL started years ago. They were set for such a long time and Reese also tends to favor the DE WR DB position. Is what it is. He's tried. Just w mixed results.

Boothe and went to my son's fancy pants prep
School. He was a FA From Oakland. And he played at Cornell.

Biggest agreement w you is the arrgance about coaching up OL
kids. It takes years to develop proper technique. Not every player can adjust and relearn what he's done for years and years. It's a gamble.
oh lord the sanctimony!  
idiotsavant : 8/16/2017 5:32 pm : link
''Please, please,
oldog : 5:14 pm : link : reply
get off this kid's case. Don't project your overwrought expectations on him, don't think you have the right to criticise him every time he scratches his nose, just chill, mind your own business for a while and LEAVE HIM BE.''
Dont worry  
XBRONX : 8/16/2017 5:39 pm : link
Solari is the shit at coaching the OL.
Playing against Vernon in practice would be hard for any OT  
idinkido : 8/17/2017 7:07 am : link
My question is how does he play against the other DEs on the Giants?
RE: I've been critical of Flowers, but aren't they in shells there?  
gidiefor : Mod : 8/17/2017 9:36 am : link
In comment 13562107 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
If so, I'd take any conclusions drawn from that video, good or bad, with a grain of salt.


This ^^^^ exactly

They were in shells Monday and Tuesday -- hard to panic from a shells practice and even Jordan Raanan is making a big deal out of these shells practice.

The concern right now with Flowers is his attitude -- which is in direct contradiction with his reported "work ethic."

In terms of his slimmed body, his keeping in position, his taking on of assignments, his hand work, even his foot work -- they are all improved over last year -- indeed much improved even from the beginning of camp.
Not sure if this article was posted....  
M.S. : 8/17/2017 9:43 am : link

...but it is certainly relevant to the thread starter.

From Jordan Raanan.
Ereck Flowers remains serious concern for Giants at left tackle - ( New Window )
...  
annexOPR : 8/17/2017 10:09 am : link
This team is loaded literally everywhere ... and this OL could derail everything

Stay healthy Rhett Ellison - please!
The left tackle problem just seems to have gone on for too many years.  
Reese's Pieces : 8/17/2017 11:04 am : link
If Flowers weren't such a high draft pick, I think that they would have given up on him by now.

The team went through two rugged playoffs with David Diehl at left tackle. No knock on Diehl, who played with great heart and got (enough of) the job done, but he was no Pro Bowl tackle.

The Giants don't need a star at left tackle, just someone who can put up stiff resistance and make the pass rusher work hard for sacks and hurries. Someone intelligent enough to gel with the other linemen.

I think that they could pick up another Diehl or Seubert on the waiver wire. Why they would pencil in an UDFA as Plan B if Flowers falters again I can't understand.
...  
annexOPR : 8/17/2017 11:09 am : link
they reached for a LT who profiles better at RG ... and another year of ineptitude will [hopefully] prompt the inevitable switch to Guard
RE: RE: Maybe I am missing something  
Carson53 : 8/17/2017 2:11 pm : link
In comment 13561949 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13561935 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


But all I see is a picture of Flowers, a poll on Flowers, and a video of Marshall's session with reporters.



Video is at the top of the article.



In that video, people are just going half speed too,
can't glean much from that....I just wait until the
regular season begins myself.
RE: BB 56  
santacruzom : 8/17/2017 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13562440 Stratman said:
Quote:
Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.


RIght. Or put another way, practice makes permanent.
Sanctimony,  
oldog : 8/17/2017 5:22 pm : link
remember idiot, you're just another brick in the wall.
I actually feel bad for Flowers right now...  
EricJ : 8/17/2017 9:24 pm : link
he has the entire NY football world shitting on him. The guy is working hard and trying. Although he is not performing to our expectations... there have been plenty of guys who came through here who gave half of the effort that Flowers has given us.
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