I think Fake Aegon will try to ride Viserion and fail proving he's a fake. Euron will steal Viserion with the horn and at some point the dragon will wind up dead or it will be revealed Euron is an agent of the White Walkers and deliver the dragon to them.
So this is their way of getting to the important book plot of the White Walkers gaining control of Viserion but in a vastly different way. I doubt I'm totally correct on this but I can see some version of this playing out if and when the books are ever written.
By Fake Aegon, do you mean Young Griff? Pretty sure he's already toast...
Yeah but he's still alive. You might be thinking of Quentyn Martell who was roasted by one of them and is dead. I suspect it will be Viseiron Young Griff will attempt to ride, and will fail, Viserion rejecting him, proving he's not who he says he is.
My bad! Yes, I mixed up the Martell son with Young Griff Â
The thing that really bothers me is that it wouldn't have been that hard to avoid the whole thing. They could have had an awesome Helm's Deep type of siege scene that would have made sense and given the dragons enough time to get there and not be stupid.
Hell, I'd have preferred if they just abandoned the entire "We NEED to risk our lives capturing a wight because doing so WILL make Cersei believe us and join us... but we needn't spend any more time developing this plan beyond half baked, and we certainly don't need to plan for any contingencies!" thing to begin with.
RE: RE: RE: The dragons flying quickly is believable Â
The thing that really bothers me is that it wouldn't have been that hard to avoid the whole thing. They could have had an awesome Helm's Deep type of siege scene that would have made sense and given the dragons enough time to get there and not be stupid.
Hell, I'd have preferred if they just abandoned the entire "We NEED to risk our lives capturing a wight because doing so WILL make Cersei believe us and join us... but we needn't spend any more time developing this plan beyond half baked, and we certainly don't need to plan for any contingencies!" thing to begin with.
This I agree with. I mentioned it last week. The plan in general was stupid. At least Jon said it wasn't the best plan and acknowledged it.
Apppeared to be circling towards the Knights King. Plus we all know how protected they are of their mother. What do we think happens if he attacked the one with Dany while that one was already in the air not that far off? It's BBQ time for the Knights King long before he gets s second shot off.
and with that comes a drastic decline in quality and realism. If they could do things over again, I'm sure they'd prefer to stretch this out into 3 seasons while having reduced seasons 3-5 by one.
And yeah, getting Cersei's support is dumb as fuck... but if they can use this Wight to at least team up with Jamie and other leaders within Cersei's camp, maybe just maybe they can galvanize enough support from that side so that WHEN, not if, Cersei tries to ambush them with her Golden Company at some point in Season 7... they can overcome it.
(or maybe in GOT as with other HBO series, we'll be left with a vastly disappointing ending where we dont know who the fuck ended up winning, or with Cersei winning despite doing nothing to beat the WW)
Anyway, I'm entertained... that's all i can really ask for our of a television show/movie.
Apppeared to be circling towards the Knights King. Plus we all know how protected they are of their mother. What do we think happens if he attacked the one with Dany while that one was already in the air not that far off? It's BBQ time for the Knights King long before he gets s second shot off.
I didnt think the Night King could be defeated by fire.
about the chains and the javelins and the wight-napping. What about how the silly Arya/Sansa tension is ultimately a Three's Company-like misunderstanding that could easily be remedied if either of them asked any logical questions of one another, and/or answered such questions with explanations rather than riddles?
Time passing to at least night while Gendry was running? He really couldn't have ran back to the wall over 12-14 hours??
The run to the wall is semi-believable. It's the raven then flying 1200 km followed by the dragons flying the same distance and only 1 day (2 days tops) passing all while the A-team was surrounded on a rock.
RE: RE: Am I misremembering or did they not show Â
Time passing to at least night while Gendry was running? He really couldn't have ran back to the wall over 12-14 hours??
The run to the wall is semi-believable. It's the raven then flying 1200 km followed by the dragons flying the same distance and only 1 day (2 days tops) passing all while the A-team was surrounded on a rock.
Also, in real life the A-team's GPS batteries might have died, making it less likely that Dany and her dragons would be able to zero in on their exact location in a large region in inclement weather.
Time passing to at least night while Gendry was running? He really couldn't have ran back to the wall over 12-14 hours??
The run to the wall is semi-believable. It's the raven then flying 1200 km followed by the dragons flying the same distance and only 1 day (2 days tops) passing all while the A-team was surrounded on a rock.
Also, in real life the A-team's GPS batteries might have died, making it less likely that Dany and her dragons would be able to zero in on their exact location in a large region in inclement weather.
That's forgivable too. Eagles can see a rabbit from 3.2 km away, so I imagine a dragon can spot a massive horde of wight's from significantly further.
RE: RE: RE: The dragons flying quickly is believable Â
The thing that really bothers me is that it wouldn't have been that hard to avoid the whole thing. They could have had an awesome Helm's Deep type of siege scene that would have made sense and given the dragons enough time to get there and not be stupid.
Hell, I'd have preferred if they just abandoned the entire "We NEED to risk our lives capturing a wight because doing so WILL make Cersei believe us and join us... but we needn't spend any more time developing this plan beyond half baked, and we certainly don't need to plan for any contingencies!" thing to begin with.
If they only had the good sense to look downstream last week, they could have captured Jaime and flew him up to look at the WW and then report back. Far more cost-effective.
if they didn't have so many character arcs to tie up Â
with a limited # of episodes, they could've just had Jon hop on a dragon and fly up there himself and scoop one up before the wights even knew what hit them. Though, then the NK wouldn't have his own dragon to use in battle.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Am I misremembering or did they not show Â
Just because a bird of prey can spot movement in the brush from a considerable distance, that doesn't mean that any flying thing can spot a mass gathering of people in cloudy conditions in an area roughly the size of Utah.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Am I misremembering or did they not show Â
That's forgivable too. Eagles can see a rabbit from 3.2 km away, so I imagine a dragon can spot a massive horde of wight's from significantly further.
Aren't they... different species though?
Sure. I'm just saying that supervision for a real animal isn't unheard of, so it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to believe that dragons have it too. Far more believable than them flying mach 6 with Dany on board...
I'd be pissed at Dany for making us sail all the way to Eastwatch!
How about a scenario where Jon asks for dragon support before they leave Dragonstone and Dany waffles on whether or not to commit. Skip all the Gendry/raven crap and Dany can make a surprise appearance just in the nick of time ala Stannis.
Blissfully ignoring the lack of GPS in both cases, it would have made the timeline muddy enough for it to be plausible.
How about a scenario where Jon asks for dragon support before they leave Dragonstone and Dany waffles on whether or not to commit.
Right. Or Dany offers it. Or Tyrion alludes to how it's possible to provide it. Or someone at least acknowledges the fact that they have dragons, that the mission could be compromised, and the dragons could be of use if the mission becomes compromised.
I'd be pissed at Dany for making us sail all the way to Eastwatch!
How about a scenario where Jon asks for dragon support before they leave Dragonstone and Dany waffles on whether or not to commit. Skip all the Gendry/raven crap and Dany can make a surprise appearance just in the nick of time ala Stannis.
Blissfully ignoring the lack of GPS in both cases, it would have made the timeline muddy enough for it to be plausible.
The relative stupidity of their plans or their inability to work together is part of the story and part of the human experience. I'm only choked at how implausible - no matter how you try to ignore it - of the time/space liberties being forced on us. It's pretty ridiculous. Too bad Uncle B's horse can't support two riders.
RE: RE: Ill never understand the complaints on time traveling Â
They've confirmed many times that MANY years have passed since the show started, arguably a decade since episode 1. Time IS passing. We have 7 damn episodes left. Do we want to spend those 7 episodes watching birds fly with messages for 30 minutes or Gendry riding back on a horse for a whole episode? What's the alternative??
You're confusing time passing off screen and the concept of making it reasonable with what you show on screen.
In this case there is no reasonable way to account for time elapsed and the distance traveled. They spent roughly a day traveling beyond the wall. From the time the gang gets surrounded by the undead at the end of their day and when they wake up the next morning, we are asked to believe that
1. Gendry ran all the way back to where they started.
2. A raven flew the entire length of the continent
3. Dany flew the length of the continent with her dragons
You can make that somewhat believable by stretching the timeline a few days. Have the gang on the run, hiding, etc. It would not have been hard to write something like that and arrive at the same result.
Gentry ran part of the day and all night before collapsing the next morning in front of the East Watch gates. At the very least he was on the move about 16 hours. I thought that was implied. . Lets assume ravens fill the same purpose as carrier pigeons. That means they will fly fast and are long distance flyers. Competitive carrier pigeons fly for over 1,100 miles at an average speed of 50 mph with speeds of 90 mph over short distances. The distance from East watch to Dragon Stone is about 1,000 miles so a raven can fly that distance in a day. Assuming the dragon can fly twice as fast as a raven then that distance can be covered in as little as 10 hours, half a day at most. So by the time that Jon send Gentry for help and Daenerys showing up would have been just under 3 days and this lines up with Jon and crew timeline. Game of Thrones has a lot of Deus ex Machina moments but this is not one of them.
You've got dead armies and dragons and Red Witches/Priests bringing people back to life. Women giving birth to demons who kill rival Baratheon's in the middle of the night, faceless men/women assassines that can change faces and shapes... and watchmen who can cure Greyscale by reading a book.
But I draw the line at dead men being able to pull a dragon from the water and ravens flying fast. That shit's just ridiculous. BOO!!
A work of fiction that incorporates fantasy elements still has boundaries between fantasy and what resembles realism. If Arya gave birth to a horse, you wouldn't just shrug and say "There's magic in the world."
How about a scenario where Jon asks for dragon support before they leave Dragonstone and Dany waffles on whether or not to commit.
Right. Or Dany offers it. Or Tyrion alludes to how it's possible to provide it. Or someone at least acknowledges the fact that they have dragons, that the mission could be compromised, and the dragons could be of use if the mission becomes compromised.
Dany was not ever going to waste her time flying a dragon to help Jon on this - she didn't even believe in wight walkers.
The distress letter that came with the raven, combined with Tyrion forcing her to realize her feelings for Jon, ultimately lead to her having a change in heart and going to his aid.
this series was compelling enough just dealing with the battle for the iron throne ... without all the supernatural shit going on.
but caring about whether it would take Dany 2 days to find the A-Team up north or 4 days... that beef pales in comparison to Arya being able to look and sound like Walder Frey, killing his entire family.
A work of fiction that incorporates fantasy elements still has boundaries between fantasy and what resembles realism. If Arya gave birth to a horse, you wouldn't just shrug and say "There's magic in the world."
. . . I've heard that George RR Martin's original idea for the lead character was supposed to be "Arya Stark, Mother of Horses" - but it didn't have a good ring to it.
some of you need to learn what verisimilitude is Â
this series was compelling enough just dealing with the battle for the iron throne ... without all the supernatural shit going on.
but caring about whether it would take Dany 2 days to find the A-Team up north or 4 days... that beef pales in comparison to Arya being able to look and sound like Walder Frey, killing his entire family.
IMO, of course.
It isn't just 1 instance though, that's our point (or atleast mine). In the early seasons everything was well explained and plausible as it pertains to the world that was created. Lately, it's all been out of whack and it's very noticeable. There's some people here who will have an answer for anything because no one dare say a bad word about GoT, and others that are more critical. I think it's fine to take either stance but blaming it on it being a fantasy series is such a tiresome and frankly cheap argument. By that logic the Walking Deads stupid plots should just be ok with everyone, since hey, it's zombies man.
this series was compelling enough just dealing with the battle for the iron throne ... without all the supernatural shit going on.
but caring about whether it would take Dany 2 days to find the A-Team up north or 4 days... that beef pales in comparison to Arya being able to look and sound like Walder Frey, killing his entire family.
IMO, of course.
It isn't just 1 instance though, that's our point (or atleast mine). In the early seasons everything was well explained and plausible as it pertains to the world that was created. Lately, it's all been out of whack and it's very noticeable. There's some people here who will have an answer for anything because no one dare say a bad word about GoT, and others that are more critical. I think it's fine to take either stance but blaming it on it being a fantasy series is such a tiresome and frankly cheap argument. By that logic the Walking Deads stupid plots should just be ok with everyone, since hey, it's zombies man.
The series has ALWAYS had a level of absurdity about it due to the fact that they're forced to include all of the supernatural stuff that is in the books. It just hasn't been as noticeable until now because much of it, even including the dragons, was placed to the side to focus on the more character-centric storylines.
But eventually they had to address the "magical" stuff to move the overall story to it's conclusion, and there really is no neat way they could have done it to make it seamless and sensisical - some of us excepted this from the very beginning, but obviously some are getting caught off guard by it.
Regardless the show writers shouldn't be killed for a few plot holes - the source material is just too difficult to translate perfectly to a 1 hour weekly program. However, what they've been able to do up to this point is remarkable and I feel like a lot of people are going to ruin the ride for themselves if they continue to focus in on relatively small plot deficiencies.
it's been happening for a while now, and not just the magical stuff. It's no coincidence the writing became starkly different once they passed the books. Like I said if it doesn't bother you that's great, but I think it's a legitimate gripe that takes away from my enjoyment. Doesn't mean I hate it, but I don't like it as much as I used to and the writing is the main reason. I also always found the lesser plotlines more interesting which are now completely phased out since there's no time left. That's the nature of a series coming to an end, I can certainly admit that.
I don't have time to read this gigantic thread now.
But while I thought that this episode was an impressive production (especially for TV), I wasn't all that impressed with the narrative. You can really tell that the show is no longer based on GRRM books and is written by TV writers now. Predictability. Cut corners. Plot points that don't really work upon deeper analysis.
And the pure drama is just misfiring for me, for whatever reason. For example, I really like Tormund. But during that scene where it looked like he was gonna be murdered, I didn't feel anything.
It does seem like Season 8 will be the war against the army of the dead. Which makes sense, because that can't be rushed.
And might I say that this "Bran as Night King" theory sucks Dothraki taint. I can't imagine that the show will do something so cheap and stupid. If it does, that would be a massive disappointment.
maybe because the whole reason they went north of the wall is dumb.
I don't get why it takes the wights so damn long to kill someone. Tormund had a ton of them on top of him but somehow none of them stabbed, slashed, or bit him. He should have died and it would have been a good death. Thoros being the only death was weak especially knowing the red woman is still alive which means there's still a small chance Beric can continue being Beric. Now that they have to fight a war I don't even think Jons promise to kill Melissandre will even come into play, he needs her now (presumably with Beric still alive).
The way to make any fantasy or sci fi world believable is by Â
having the internal rules of the world make sense. So sure, there were dragons and resurrections and other stuff, but Martin, in particular, was careful about the movements of armies and traveling in general. The fact that the show has played fast and loose with that (starting with, Surprise! The lannisters moved their whole army and no one noticed) after being so careful for so long is what's hard now.
"2. "No Time" for Benjen to also hop on a horse?" Â
ha. Exactly. I get it that this guy wasn't exactly the most developed character, but come on. He was Ned Stark's brother and the time from his reunion with Jon to his death takes a grand total of like 15 seconds. WTF? Why not have him come upon Jon and his buddies earlier in the episode and hang out for a bit?
maybe because the whole reason they went north of the wall is dumb.
I don't get why it takes the wights so damn long to kill someone. Tormund had a ton of them on top of him but somehow none of them stabbed, slashed, or bit him. He should have died and it would have been a good death. Thoros being the only death was weak especially knowing the red woman is still alive which means there's still a small chance Beric can continue being Beric. Now that they have to fight a war I don't even think Jons promise to kill Melissandre will even come into play, he needs her now (presumably with Beric still alive).
Thoros survived a zombie polar bear gorging on his chest (and was even walking around!). He should have died then.
The show has been protecting its main characters and 1B characters for too long. And that's despite military battles with dragons and onslaughts from hordes of wights.
The sense of danger that this show used to have is gone. The suspense is low because the primary characters keep surviving everything.
And I agree with those who think that the Arya/Sansa feud is forced. It would seem pretty credible to me that Sansa was forced to write that letter. I don't see a legitimate reason why Arya's character should be taking the hard-ass stance she's taking now.
maybe she's setting up Littlefinger. I'm not sure what will happen this sunday night, but I'm hoping at the very least this Winterfell storyline ends one way or another. The whole Arya / Hannibal Lecter stuff is tiring.
The show has been protecting its main characters and 1B characters for too long. And that's despite military battles with dragons and onslaughts from hordes of wights.
The sense of danger that this show used to have is gone. The suspense is low because the primary characters keep surviving everything.
seeing a "Lord of the Rings" theme with the battle for Middle Earth developing. Humans and allies against the non humans...
Regardless one of the best stories I have ever read and shows I've ever seen.
and since teasers usually ... tease... the audience, i think we can now safely assume both Starks live. Now whether LF chokes on his own blood, we'll see.
Why do they need to convince Cersei? Who cares what she thinks? Even if Cersei believed in it, Dany just decimated her army. So what help is she going to be anyway? I don't understand the point of this plot. There was no reason for these people to be North of the Wall looking for a Wight. It was nonsense designed to kill a dragon and give it to the White Walkers. Simple as that.
It's likely this happens in the books in a radically different way and they needed to get the adaptation to match up with that coming pot point. Okay, fine. But if they're not going to do it the way George RR Martin is planning to do it, you mean to tell me professional writers doing the adaptation couldn't come up with another and more believable way to achieve that?
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I think Fake Aegon will try to ride Viserion and fail proving he's a fake. Euron will steal Viserion with the horn and at some point the dragon will wind up dead or it will be revealed Euron is an agent of the White Walkers and deliver the dragon to them.
So this is their way of getting to the important book plot of the White Walkers gaining control of Viserion but in a vastly different way. I doubt I'm totally correct on this but I can see some version of this playing out if and when the books are ever written.
By Fake Aegon, do you mean Young Griff? Pretty sure he's already toast...
Yeah but he's still alive. You might be thinking of Quentyn Martell who was roasted by one of them and is dead. I suspect it will be Viseiron Young Griff will attempt to ride, and will fail, Viserion rejecting him, proving he's not who he says he is.
The thing that really bothers me is that it wouldn't have been that hard to avoid the whole thing. They could have had an awesome Helm's Deep type of siege scene that would have made sense and given the dragons enough time to get there and not be stupid.
Hell, I'd have preferred if they just abandoned the entire "We NEED to risk our lives capturing a wight because doing so WILL make Cersei believe us and join us... but we needn't spend any more time developing this plan beyond half baked, and we certainly don't need to plan for any contingencies!" thing to begin with.
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The thing that really bothers me is that it wouldn't have been that hard to avoid the whole thing. They could have had an awesome Helm's Deep type of siege scene that would have made sense and given the dragons enough time to get there and not be stupid.
Hell, I'd have preferred if they just abandoned the entire "We NEED to risk our lives capturing a wight because doing so WILL make Cersei believe us and join us... but we needn't spend any more time developing this plan beyond half baked, and we certainly don't need to plan for any contingencies!" thing to begin with.
This I agree with. I mentioned it last week. The plan in general was stupid. At least Jon said it wasn't the best plan and acknowledged it.
And yeah, getting Cersei's support is dumb as fuck... but if they can use this Wight to at least team up with Jamie and other leaders within Cersei's camp, maybe just maybe they can galvanize enough support from that side so that WHEN, not if, Cersei tries to ambush them with her Golden Company at some point in Season 7... they can overcome it.
(or maybe in GOT as with other HBO series, we'll be left with a vastly disappointing ending where we dont know who the fuck ended up winning, or with Cersei winning despite doing nothing to beat the WW)
Anyway, I'm entertained... that's all i can really ask for our of a television show/movie.
I didnt think the Night King could be defeated by fire.
The run to the wall is semi-believable. It's the raven then flying 1200 km followed by the dragons flying the same distance and only 1 day (2 days tops) passing all while the A-team was surrounded on a rock.
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Time passing to at least night while Gendry was running? He really couldn't have ran back to the wall over 12-14 hours??
The run to the wall is semi-believable. It's the raven then flying 1200 km followed by the dragons flying the same distance and only 1 day (2 days tops) passing all while the A-team was surrounded on a rock.
Also, in real life the A-team's GPS batteries might have died, making it less likely that Dany and her dragons would be able to zero in on their exact location in a large region in inclement weather.
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In comment 13566982 ZGiants98 said:
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Time passing to at least night while Gendry was running? He really couldn't have ran back to the wall over 12-14 hours??
The run to the wall is semi-believable. It's the raven then flying 1200 km followed by the dragons flying the same distance and only 1 day (2 days tops) passing all while the A-team was surrounded on a rock.
Also, in real life the A-team's GPS batteries might have died, making it less likely that Dany and her dragons would be able to zero in on their exact location in a large region in inclement weather.
That's forgivable too. Eagles can see a rabbit from 3.2 km away, so I imagine a dragon can spot a massive horde of wight's from significantly further.
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The thing that really bothers me is that it wouldn't have been that hard to avoid the whole thing. They could have had an awesome Helm's Deep type of siege scene that would have made sense and given the dragons enough time to get there and not be stupid.
Hell, I'd have preferred if they just abandoned the entire "We NEED to risk our lives capturing a wight because doing so WILL make Cersei believe us and join us... but we needn't spend any more time developing this plan beyond half baked, and we certainly don't need to plan for any contingencies!" thing to begin with.
That's forgivable too. Eagles can see a rabbit from 3.2 km away, so I imagine a dragon can spot a massive horde of wight's from significantly further.
Aren't they... different species though?
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That's forgivable too. Eagles can see a rabbit from 3.2 km away, so I imagine a dragon can spot a massive horde of wight's from significantly further.
Aren't they... different species though?
Sure. I'm just saying that supervision for a real animal isn't unheard of, so it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to believe that dragons have it too. Far more believable than them flying mach 6 with Dany on board...
Man, they could have written themselves into scenarios that would make all of this so much less distracting and diminishing.
How about a scenario where Jon asks for dragon support before they leave Dragonstone and Dany waffles on whether or not to commit. Skip all the Gendry/raven crap and Dany can make a surprise appearance just in the nick of time ala Stannis.
Blissfully ignoring the lack of GPS in both cases, it would have made the timeline muddy enough for it to be plausible.
How about a scenario where Jon asks for dragon support before they leave Dragonstone and Dany waffles on whether or not to commit.
Right. Or Dany offers it. Or Tyrion alludes to how it's possible to provide it. Or someone at least acknowledges the fact that they have dragons, that the mission could be compromised, and the dragons could be of use if the mission becomes compromised.
He didn't bring his hammer, making him uber fast.
How about a scenario where Jon asks for dragon support before they leave Dragonstone and Dany waffles on whether or not to commit. Skip all the Gendry/raven crap and Dany can make a surprise appearance just in the nick of time ala Stannis.
Blissfully ignoring the lack of GPS in both cases, it would have made the timeline muddy enough for it to be plausible.
The relative stupidity of their plans or their inability to work together is part of the story and part of the human experience. I'm only choked at how implausible - no matter how you try to ignore it - of the time/space liberties being forced on us. It's pretty ridiculous. Too bad Uncle B's horse can't support two riders.
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They've confirmed many times that MANY years have passed since the show started, arguably a decade since episode 1. Time IS passing. We have 7 damn episodes left. Do we want to spend those 7 episodes watching birds fly with messages for 30 minutes or Gendry riding back on a horse for a whole episode? What's the alternative??
You're confusing time passing off screen and the concept of making it reasonable with what you show on screen.
In this case there is no reasonable way to account for time elapsed and the distance traveled. They spent roughly a day traveling beyond the wall. From the time the gang gets surrounded by the undead at the end of their day and when they wake up the next morning, we are asked to believe that
1. Gendry ran all the way back to where they started.
2. A raven flew the entire length of the continent
3. Dany flew the length of the continent with her dragons
You can make that somewhat believable by stretching the timeline a few days. Have the gang on the run, hiding, etc. It would not have been hard to write something like that and arrive at the same result.
Gentry ran part of the day and all night before collapsing the next morning in front of the East Watch gates. At the very least he was on the move about 16 hours. I thought that was implied. . Lets assume ravens fill the same purpose as carrier pigeons. That means they will fly fast and are long distance flyers. Competitive carrier pigeons fly for over 1,100 miles at an average speed of 50 mph with speeds of 90 mph over short distances. The distance from East watch to Dragon Stone is about 1,000 miles so a raven can fly that distance in a day. Assuming the dragon can fly twice as fast as a raven then that distance can be covered in as little as 10 hours, half a day at most. So by the time that Jon send Gentry for help and Daenerys showing up would have been just under 3 days and this lines up with Jon and crew timeline. Game of Thrones has a lot of Deus ex Machina moments but this is not one of them.
But I draw the line at dead men being able to pull a dragon from the water and ravens flying fast. That shit's just ridiculous. BOO!!
A work of fiction that incorporates fantasy elements still has boundaries between fantasy and what resembles realism. If Arya gave birth to a horse, you wouldn't just shrug and say "There's magic in the world."
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How about a scenario where Jon asks for dragon support before they leave Dragonstone and Dany waffles on whether or not to commit.
Right. Or Dany offers it. Or Tyrion alludes to how it's possible to provide it. Or someone at least acknowledges the fact that they have dragons, that the mission could be compromised, and the dragons could be of use if the mission becomes compromised.
Dany was not ever going to waste her time flying a dragon to help Jon on this - she didn't even believe in wight walkers.
The distress letter that came with the raven, combined with Tyrion forcing her to realize her feelings for Jon, ultimately lead to her having a change in heart and going to his aid.
but caring about whether it would take Dany 2 days to find the A-Team up north or 4 days... that beef pales in comparison to Arya being able to look and sound like Walder Frey, killing his entire family.
IMO, of course.
A work of fiction that incorporates fantasy elements still has boundaries between fantasy and what resembles realism. If Arya gave birth to a horse, you wouldn't just shrug and say "There's magic in the world."
. . . I've heard that George RR Martin's original idea for the lead character was supposed to be "Arya Stark, Mother of Horses" - but it didn't have a good ring to it.
but caring about whether it would take Dany 2 days to find the A-Team up north or 4 days... that beef pales in comparison to Arya being able to look and sound like Walder Frey, killing his entire family.
IMO, of course.
It isn't just 1 instance though, that's our point (or atleast mine). In the early seasons everything was well explained and plausible as it pertains to the world that was created. Lately, it's all been out of whack and it's very noticeable. There's some people here who will have an answer for anything because no one dare say a bad word about GoT, and others that are more critical. I think it's fine to take either stance but blaming it on it being a fantasy series is such a tiresome and frankly cheap argument. By that logic the Walking Deads stupid plots should just be ok with everyone, since hey, it's zombies man.
Jeez....it's not like they had Gendry fly back to Eastwatch in John Denver's experimental airplane.
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this series was compelling enough just dealing with the battle for the iron throne ... without all the supernatural shit going on.
but caring about whether it would take Dany 2 days to find the A-Team up north or 4 days... that beef pales in comparison to Arya being able to look and sound like Walder Frey, killing his entire family.
IMO, of course.
It isn't just 1 instance though, that's our point (or atleast mine). In the early seasons everything was well explained and plausible as it pertains to the world that was created. Lately, it's all been out of whack and it's very noticeable. There's some people here who will have an answer for anything because no one dare say a bad word about GoT, and others that are more critical. I think it's fine to take either stance but blaming it on it being a fantasy series is such a tiresome and frankly cheap argument. By that logic the Walking Deads stupid plots should just be ok with everyone, since hey, it's zombies man.
The series has ALWAYS had a level of absurdity about it due to the fact that they're forced to include all of the supernatural stuff that is in the books. It just hasn't been as noticeable until now because much of it, even including the dragons, was placed to the side to focus on the more character-centric storylines.
But eventually they had to address the "magical" stuff to move the overall story to it's conclusion, and there really is no neat way they could have done it to make it seamless and sensisical - some of us excepted this from the very beginning, but obviously some are getting caught off guard by it.
Regardless the show writers shouldn't be killed for a few plot holes - the source material is just too difficult to translate perfectly to a 1 hour weekly program. However, what they've been able to do up to this point is remarkable and I feel like a lot of people are going to ruin the ride for themselves if they continue to focus in on relatively small plot deficiencies.
But while I thought that this episode was an impressive production (especially for TV), I wasn't all that impressed with the narrative. You can really tell that the show is no longer based on GRRM books and is written by TV writers now. Predictability. Cut corners. Plot points that don't really work upon deeper analysis.
And the pure drama is just misfiring for me, for whatever reason. For example, I really like Tormund. But during that scene where it looked like he was gonna be murdered, I didn't feel anything.
It does seem like Season 8 will be the war against the army of the dead. Which makes sense, because that can't be rushed.
And might I say that this "Bran as Night King" theory sucks Dothraki taint. I can't imagine that the show will do something so cheap and stupid. If it does, that would be a massive disappointment.
I don't get why it takes the wights so damn long to kill someone. Tormund had a ton of them on top of him but somehow none of them stabbed, slashed, or bit him. He should have died and it would have been a good death. Thoros being the only death was weak especially knowing the red woman is still alive which means there's still a small chance Beric can continue being Beric. Now that they have to fight a war I don't even think Jons promise to kill Melissandre will even come into play, he needs her now (presumably with Beric still alive).
Quote:
maybe because the whole reason they went north of the wall is dumb.
I don't get why it takes the wights so damn long to kill someone. Tormund had a ton of them on top of him but somehow none of them stabbed, slashed, or bit him. He should have died and it would have been a good death. Thoros being the only death was weak especially knowing the red woman is still alive which means there's still a small chance Beric can continue being Beric. Now that they have to fight a war I don't even think Jons promise to kill Melissandre will even come into play, he needs her now (presumably with Beric still alive).
Thoros survived a zombie polar bear gorging on his chest (and was even walking around!). He should have died then.
The show has been protecting its main characters and 1B characters for too long. And that's despite military battles with dragons and onslaughts from hordes of wights.
The sense of danger that this show used to have is gone. The suspense is low because the primary characters keep surviving everything.
And I agree with those who think that the Arya/Sansa feud is forced. It would seem pretty credible to me that Sansa was forced to write that letter. I don't see a legitimate reason why Arya's character should be taking the hard-ass stance she's taking now.
The show has been protecting its main characters and 1B characters for too long. And that's despite military battles with dragons and onslaughts from hordes of wights.
The sense of danger that this show used to have is gone. The suspense is low because the primary characters keep surviving everything.
Agree 100%.
Regardless one of the best stories I have ever read and shows I've ever seen.
‘Game Of Thrones’ Director Teases Dark Fate For Arya And Sansa - ( New Window )
I read that as he was saying he wants you to think one would die but be unsure of which one.
Link - ( New Window )
It's likely this happens in the books in a radically different way and they needed to get the adaptation to match up with that coming pot point. Okay, fine. But if they're not going to do it the way George RR Martin is planning to do it, you mean to tell me professional writers doing the adaptation couldn't come up with another and more believable way to achieve that?