Curious to hear from people on what they expect to see from this team this year. How many wins and losses? How do you expect players to progress? What impact does a likely Melo trade have on the locker room and the product on the court? And how do you see them moving forward, optimistically or more on the pessimistic side?
KP to be an all star
WH to continue to develop into a very good BIG
DD to earn minutes
THJ to be an efficient 15-17 ppg scorer and be adequate on D
FN to show some positive signs that he's worthy of the high draft spot
Re: Melo. With training camp a month away, at some point you have to figure, somebody (NYK, CM or HOU) is going to concede leverage in this game of chicken.
Would you guys do Melo for Anderson, Young player and lets say 3 future firsts? Shit they can even protect them if needed.
The picks won't end up as much but 3 picks in the 20s range doesn't suck. Anderson has 3 shitty years left? Does that torpedo the building plan here?
...30-win team.
Or, is that too many?
The flip side is it takes the ball out of all the kids hands and slows their development.
Would you guys do Melo for Anderson, Young player and lets say 3 future firsts? Shit they can even protect them if needed.
The picks won't end up as much but 3 picks in the 20s range doesn't suck. Anderson has 3 shitty years left? Does that torpedo the building plan here?
teams were asking Houston for two firsts just to absorb Anderson's deal, so you're not completely off base. The problem is that at some point it's just not worth it for Houston to give up that much to move him in order to acquire Melo.
I think there's too many decent vets who give a fuck (Lee, Noah, KOQ, Lance) for this team to completely bottom out. Not to mention, KP could all of a sudden break out and start dominating. The upside (if you want to lose a lot) is that we might have the worst PG situation in the league right now. We have an extremely raw/young rookie, and a journeyman. There are going to be games where it gets really ugly.
Quote:
would the Knicks be able to deal Melo to the rockets for that shitty contract (Anderson?) maybe one additional useful young player and a bunch of future first rounders?
Would you guys do Melo for Anderson, Young player and lets say 3 future firsts? Shit they can even protect them if needed.
The picks won't end up as much but 3 picks in the 20s range doesn't suck. Anderson has 3 shitty years left? Does that torpedo the building plan here?
teams were asking Houston for two firsts just to absorb Anderson's deal, so you're not completely off base. The problem is that at some point it's just not worth it for Houston to give up that much to move him in order to acquire Melo.
Anderson deal is really bad and will not be easier to move in the future. Better off keeping Melo for another year and having the cap room.
Maybe move Lee for a first closer to the deadline.
Player expectations are along the lines similar to Dan. Im higher on Willy than he is. I think Frank is gonna get buried unless he really breaks out, as Horny is going to be coaching for his job (I expect that he wont be the coach 83 games from now). What I'd like to see is improved defense and a more functional offense (including benching Melo as necessary to get his buy in).
Horny will play an uptempo style and the team should at least have fun this season. They won't play much D but there's some talent there. Ill say 37 wins.
I'm looking forward to the season despite losing all faith in this franchise about 2 months ago. ONce Phil was wacked I gained a little faith but I still hate Dolan and the culture here. I am holding out hope that KP and Frank are NBA Gods in training. Once can dream. MAybe Gomez is a beast too. He can score and rebound that's for sure.
i dont expect frank to have a high impact this season unless he is more ready to play than people think...
hard to tell win total until we know what the melo trade yields if any trade at all...
i expect kp to become the number 1 option, i like willy more than most i think he is a starting center, hardaway needs to improve but he showed last year when he started he can produce...
Player expectations are along the lines similar to Dan. Im higher on Willy than he is. I think Frank is gonna get buried unless he really breaks out, as Horny is going to be coaching for his job (I expect that he wont be the coach 83 games from now). What I'd like to see is improved defense and a more functional offense (including benching Melo as necessary to get his buy in).
Not a long term indictment of Frank but I think #1 Hornacek is coaching for his job #2 Sessions was brought in to largely to help KP/Willy and I think that means he will play and #3 From what I saw from Frank, he's just not NBA ready. Doesn't mean he won't play but I find it hard to believe he's playing 30 minutes per night while the Knicks (fakely) believe they have a chance to make the playoffs. As for Willy, I just have major doubts regarding substantial defensive improvement.
I think the main reason is, hornacek doesnt want it to look like he was forced to hire rambis because he made the comments that he wanted rambis...
i think no matter what happens this year hornacek is fired for blatt...
Quote:
can't believe Rambis is still here. Really don't understand it.
I think the main reason is, hornacek doesnt want it to look like he was forced to hire rambis because he made the comments that he wanted rambis...
i think no matter what happens this year hornacek is fired for blatt...
Would it really be a major story? I find it hard to believe. Perry could fall on the sword for that one if it were such an issue.
Quote:
In comment 13564396 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
can't believe Rambis is still here. Really don't understand it.
I think the main reason is, hornacek doesnt want it to look like he was forced to hire rambis because he made the comments that he wanted rambis...
i think no matter what happens this year hornacek is fired for blatt...
Would it really be a major story? I find it hard to believe. Perry could fall on the sword for that one if it were such an issue.
to me and you it wouldnt be, but you know the ny media would..
angone who boos him or expects quick success are morons...
and if they win 25 games going with young guys that is a good thing, different qinning 25 games with young players and vet players...
who gives a shit about instant success
Not saying Frank will play 35 min a night and lead the team as a rookie but he can contribute. Why not.
Not saying Frank will play 35 min a night and lead the team as a rookie but he can contribute. Why not.
He was playing in the #7 league in the world and had a very high foul rate and turnover rate. His own teammate Louis Labeyrie acknowledged he's not NBA ready physically (while praising him so it wasn't a hit job). He's beyond some of the other top picks in terms of being ready for a major role. Phil Jackson himself (aka his biggest fan) called him a project that will take some time. His wingspan (while a potential difference maker) won't be as usable when he can be bodied etc.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account @wojespn 17h17 hours ago
More
Wisconsin's Nigel Hayes has agreed to a partially guaranteed deal with the Knicks, league source tells ESPN.
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
Following
More
Knicks have reached an agreement with Pittsburgh's Jamel Artis, league sources tell ESPN. Artis impressed the club during Summer League.
If that's true, then maybe it's time to ask Lebron if he would like to be elsewhere, because it sure seems like he doesn't want to finish his career in Cleveland.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account @wojespn 17h17 hours ago
More
Wisconsin's Nigel Hayes has agreed to a partially guaranteed deal with the Knicks, league source tells ESPN.
We only want what's best for him.
Which is why the color has been "young stud" and focus on the guys outside of the top 2 in this last draft- Jackson and Tatum in particular- which woj also caught onto in his article the other day
Quote:
and Noah playing 50, I'd guess 33-35. If Melo gets traded for significantly lesser current value and Noah is hurt, high 20s.
Player expectations are along the lines similar to Dan. Im higher on Willy than he is. I think Frank is gonna get buried unless he really breaks out, as Horny is going to be coaching for his job (I expect that he wont be the coach 83 games from now). What I'd like to see is improved defense and a more functional offense (including benching Melo as necessary to get his buy in).
Not a long term indictment of Frank but I think #1 Hornacek is coaching for his job #2 Sessions was brought in to largely to help KP/Willy and I think that means he will play and #3 From what I saw from Frank, he's just not NBA ready. Doesn't mean he won't play but I find it hard to believe he's playing 30 minutes per night while the Knicks (fakely) believe they have a chance to make the playoffs. As for Willy, I just have major doubts regarding substantial defensive improvement.
Why do you say Hornacek is coaching for his job? If they view it as a rebuild, why would they keep a coach they don't view as the long term option?
Quote:
Suns and Cavs had a verbal deal before the draft. #4 and Bledsoe for Kyrie. Cavs backed out when Lebron wouldnt commit to remaining with the Cavs "long term"
Which is why the color has been "young stud" and focus on the guys outside of the top 2 in this last draft- Jackson and Tatum in particular- which woj also caught onto in his article the other day
It's really fascinating what the Warriors have done to the league. In years past, I would think that Kyrie would be coveted by many teams that were willing to give up younger studs just so they could be competitive right now. Now teams are looking to keep their young players in an effort to build for the future since nobody thinks they can beat the Warriors.
I don't remember the league acting this way when the MJ/Bulls were unbeatable. But that was a long time ago and I may not be remembering accurately.
Why would they back out even if lebron said he wouldn't commit long term? Isn't that a good deal for the long term? They would be getting back two long term pieces and could even compete with lebron in the short term.
I think everyone is full of crap with this Irving trade talk lol.
Quote:
In comment 13564374 Deej said:
Quote:
and Noah playing 50, I'd guess 33-35. If Melo gets traded for significantly lesser current value and Noah is hurt, high 20s.
Player expectations are along the lines similar to Dan. Im higher on Willy than he is. I think Frank is gonna get buried unless he really breaks out, as Horny is going to be coaching for his job (I expect that he wont be the coach 83 games from now). What I'd like to see is improved defense and a more functional offense (including benching Melo as necessary to get his buy in).
Not a long term indictment of Frank but I think #1 Hornacek is coaching for his job #2 Sessions was brought in to largely to help KP/Willy and I think that means he will play and #3 From what I saw from Frank, he's just not NBA ready. Doesn't mean he won't play but I find it hard to believe he's playing 30 minutes per night while the Knicks (fakely) believe they have a chance to make the playoffs. As for Willy, I just have major doubts regarding substantial defensive improvement.
Why do you say Hornacek is coaching for his job? If they view it as a rebuild, why would they keep a coach they don't view as the long term option?
The coach was picked by a GM who is no longer here. He absolutely is "coaching for his job". Perry has zero ties to him. If the Knicks don't play better, players develop etc. Hornacek will be shown the door. It's not all about wins and losses.
Artis stood on in SL. Hayes did not. Not that SL means much
Quote:
In comment 13564390 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13564374 Deej said:
Quote:
and Noah playing 50, I'd guess 33-35. If Melo gets traded for significantly lesser current value and Noah is hurt, high 20s.
Player expectations are along the lines similar to Dan. Im higher on Willy than he is. I think Frank is gonna get buried unless he really breaks out, as Horny is going to be coaching for his job (I expect that he wont be the coach 83 games from now). What I'd like to see is improved defense and a more functional offense (including benching Melo as necessary to get his buy in).
Not a long term indictment of Frank but I think #1 Hornacek is coaching for his job #2 Sessions was brought in to largely to help KP/Willy and I think that means he will play and #3 From what I saw from Frank, he's just not NBA ready. Doesn't mean he won't play but I find it hard to believe he's playing 30 minutes per night while the Knicks (fakely) believe they have a chance to make the playoffs. As for Willy, I just have major doubts regarding substantial defensive improvement.
Why do you say Hornacek is coaching for his job? If they view it as a rebuild, why would they keep a coach they don't view as the long term option?
The coach was picked by a GM who is no longer here. He absolutely is "coaching for his job". Perry has zero ties to him. If the Knicks don't play better, players develop etc. Hornacek will be shown the door. It's not all about wins and losses.
Got you. I figured you were talking W/L mostly. Player development would seem paramount these next couple of years.
Ah I didn't see that part. Now it makes sense. Thanks.
Quote:
We passed up a lot of big names who might have instant success. Most will expect something quick from the kid. If he struggles, I fear the Boo birds will be out in a hurry and kill his psychie. I think it will be a rough season with a 25-57 record not out of the question.
angone who boos him or expects quick success are morons...
and if they win 25 games going with young guys that is a good thing, different qinning 25 games with young players and vet players...
who gives a shit about instant success
See, I don't understand this. I get being patient and giving Frank a chance to develop. But we know Frank was drafted because Jackson doesn't want ball stoppers. That's it. Not because he has more untapped potential.
For us Knicks fans Frank will always be linked to the 3 other guards picked after him. I don't understand the angst to protect him from criticism when, or should I say if, the other 3 perform better now and long term. I don't know about you, but I am quite comfortable pointing out the Knicks' incompetence.
Let's wait for Gmen46 to chime in.
Frank has to play, 20 min a game, I don't think being physically mature is as big of a deal in the NBA as in the NFL, especially at his position. Giving him experience as part of the tanking is not something I would mind.
I would love for him to play 20 to 25 mins a night next year but i am not going to kill the knicks if he doesnt..
he is going to take longer to develop because he played off the ball for much of his career overseas, it is going to be a big adjustment for him next year...
so yeah i think it would be moronic if fans boo him next year, in 3 years if he still sucks? yes kill him but but anyone expecting him to contend for rookie of the year will be very dissapointed
so stop acting like the knicks reached for him because of phils obsession with the triangle