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EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- The New York Giants seem to know what everybody else already does about their team this season: They're going to be only as good as their offensive line allows. The Giants struggled badly to score points last season, finishing 26th in scoring. They were 29th in rushing. Their offensive line was a major part of the problem. General manager Jerry Reese added weapons (wide receiver Brandon Marshall and tight end Evan Engram) this offseason but brought back the same five starting offensive linemen. It was a calculated risk. The Giants were able to make the playoffs last season with an offense that couldn't score points and an offensive line that didn't run block well and struggled to protect off the edges. They didn't win a playoff game. Like the rest of us, the Giants seem to be aware they must improve in order to do any serious damage this season. They can go only so far, no matter how well the defense plays, if quarterback Eli Manning doesn't have ample time and there aren't holes for the running backs. |
Pugh has talked for the last couple of years about needing to play better as a group. Richburg has called out a teammate or two. He also gave a negative comment about the old OL coach in an interview. They know they need to play better. We know they need to play better. The media knows they have to play better. I am sure the coaching staff knows too.
Like I said, I am fine with the coaching staff protecting his players but there has to be a line. Parcells knew how to motivate players whether it was putting an anchor in the lockeroom for all teammates to see or using the media. Belichick is hardest on Brady so that all his teammate know if Brady isn't safe than nobody is. There is a time and place amd if not this year then when? Finally, if he is worried about their mental makeup then that is a big concern. Look no further than Coughlin. One of his biggest characteristics for his teams were to be mentally tough.
I just pray that this OL can pull it together. I am not asking for our 2008 OL. They had to block for 4+ seconds based on the offense we ran. We just need them to block for ~3 seconds.
I have been saying that the last 2 years. Flowers has never had competition. I don't care if it is Pugh. Competition breeds success. Let Pugh gets reps out there and whoever else at LG. Maybe even Flowers at guard.
Is it ideal? Who knows? Still, as a coach I would always be thinking of contingency plans. This has to be done during camp when you have time. As a coach you have to have a plan for every situation. What is the plan if Flowers gets hurt let alone underperform?
Also, coaches love to have flexibility especially among their OL because you only have maybe 7 dress on gameday. I am not saying for Pugh to get the majority of reps at LT but everybody needs to know that if you don't perform that you could be on the bench.
So, I understand what Dottino is saying. However, if I have a job and I am not performing my job having a boss that doesn't put pressure on me is not going to get the best out of me. It just tells me that my boss's hands are tied and I can basically do what I want and still have a job. I am not saying Flowers is lazy but it is totally different having some external force motivate you. Flowers has never had that. He seems to have the internal motivation. I am not questioning that at all.
I saw Carson take over for Kelly at MLB'er and it was magic, the defensive lineman (I'm not kidding) put on two inches and looked stronger and faster. I think Smith and Ellison will make everyone bigger and stronger too.
^^^^ This
a good majority of us were convinced that the inside of the Giants line would be pretty good last year -- the combination of Pugh, RIchburgh and Jerry was better than adequate -- but it didn't turn out that way -- It's almost more important that these three start the ball rolling up front than the two tackles improve -- which to my eye - they are -- Richburgh is the key to the middle three -- he must step up this season and become the leader of the push that puts the opposition off the line and opens some holes for the running game -- without him it's not going to happen
All we need is the line to be average. I'm just not sure this line can even be that
Fant, as great as he's looked, just got rolled on by a fellow OL and needed an air cast for his lower leg.
Except look at the things each available lineman does best. (And have players swap)
* Flowers is a bull playing a finesse/strength type position - He belongs at right tackle.
*. Pugh has David Diehl type tackle ability - He's good enough to play a decent left tackle
*. Richburg is a Shaun O'Hara type center; he's just good enough, that's all
* Jerry, despite being a big man doesn't play like it; he a "dancing bear" type, good feet and surprisingly fast; he belongs at left (pulling) guard
*. Hart, I've seen him play right guard; he's actually a very good one
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maybe it was Dottino, but he suggested McAdoo going hard at Flowers it's kind of pointless since there's no one to threaten his job. Gotta give confidence and see how it goes which makes sense and can be applied in any profession.
I have been saying that the last 2 years. Flowers has never had competition. I don't care if it is Pugh. Competition breeds success. Let Pugh gets reps out there and whoever else at LG. Maybe even Flowers at guard.
Is it ideal? Who knows? Still, as a coach I would always be thinking of contingency plans. This has to be done during camp when you have time. As a coach you have to have a plan for every situation. What is the plan if Flowers gets hurt let alone underperform?
Also, coaches love to have flexibility especially among their OL because you only have maybe 7 dress on gameday. I am not saying for Pugh to get the majority of reps at LT but everybody needs to know that if you don't perform that you could be on the bench.
So, I understand what Dottino is saying. However, if I have a job and I am not performing my job having a boss that doesn't put pressure on me is not going to get the best out of me. It just tells me that my boss's hands are tied and I can basically do what I want and still have a job. I am not saying Flowers is lazy but it is totally different having some external force motivate you. Flowers has never had that. He seems to have the internal motivation. I am not questioning that at all.
I think that's all well and good, but OLT is a lot like QB - there aren't enough good ones for every team to have one, what are the chances that a team would have enough to foster competition?
I'd be all for bringing in someone to light a fire under Flowers' feet, but if you're not committing serious money to a possible starter, how do you do that?
Except look at the things each available lineman does best. (And have players swap)
* Flowers is a bull playing a finesse/strength type position - He belongs at right tackle.
*. Pugh has David Diehl type tackle ability - He's good enough to play a decent left tackle
*. Richburg is a Shaun O'Hara type center; he's just good enough, that's all
* Jerry, despite being a big man doesn't play like it; he a "dancing bear" type, good feet and surprisingly fast; he belongs at left (pulling) guard
*. Hart, I've seen him play right guard; he's actually a very good one
so Pugh-Jerry-Richburg-Hart-Flowers. We just need to switch 4 guys - LOL.
One thing becoming clear is the Pugh move to LG should have been called off once Beatty went down. He should have stayed at RT or perhaps moved to LT with the rookie getting RT as originally planned. Then we could have the line you want. Have to believe it would be better than what we have now.
They were both unforgivably godawful last year. And yes it's just one series. It's the height of ridiculousness to do anything with one series of play.
I couldn't agree more. Who knows how much of the broken hand excuse is true and contributed to his poor play last year but there's some reason to at least be a bit optimistic.
There are about ten serious factors pushing this line to better and if only half of them work out.....!! I know the schedule was weak but the fact is last year's line (that had to be much worse than this year's edition was good enough to take us to 11-5. And we didn't lose the playoff game because of the line. It took Cromarite and JPP going out, some dropped passes, and two unreal plays by Rogers.
TEN REASONS TO COME IN FROM THE LEDGE
1. tHE off season that Hart and Flowers put in. That would help with seasoned vets, it has to make them better
2. Two years with Solari
3. Richenberg injury
4. Ellison
5. Smith (this is going to be changing)
6. Vereen (will slow the rush)
7. The age of our tackles
8. Evan E. (put this guy in a pattern and it will take away the blitz, pull a linebacker away and Eli gets the ball to Evan and it's touchdown not first down
9. Maturation of Shep
10. A tall Hall of famer and someone Eli can heave to with a large catch radius and the abiltiy to go high ...much like Plax. Mr. Marshall is a serious upgrade from Cruz...and as much as the size helps Eli. can't blitz.
Compromise or eliminate half of those reasons and we're still in much better shape.
Frankly, it's not our line so much as the competition in the Division this year.
Seriously good teams: Falcons, Panthers , James Winston and M. Evans, Howard, Olson, D. Jackson...WOW, Green Bay, Cardinals, Seattle and one surprise between The Lions and Vikings...That's without counting our division where all three of the villains are scary.
There are about ten serious factors pushing this line to better and if only half of them work out.....!! I know the schedule was weak but the fact is last year's line (that had to be much worse than this year's edition was good enough to take us to 11-5. And we didn't lose the playoff game because of the line. It took Cromarite and JPP going out, some dropped passes, and two unreal plays by Rogers.
TEN REASONS TO COME IN FROM THE LEDGE
1. tHE off season that Hart and Flowers put in. That would help with seasoned vets, it has to make them better
2. Two years with Solari
3. Richenberg injury
4. Ellison
5. Smith (this is going to be changing)
6. Vereen (will slow the rush)
7. The age of our tackles
8. Evan E. (put this guy in a pattern and it will take away the blitz, pull a linebacker away and Eli gets the ball to Evan and it's touchdown not first down
9. Maturation of Shep
10. A tall Hall of famer and someone Eli can heave to with a large catch radius and the abiltiy to go high ...much like Plax. Mr. Marshall is a serious upgrade from Cruz...and as much as the size helps Eli. can't blitz.
10 reasons whereas only the first one has anything to do with actually players on the O-line doing something to get better.
Their better when they start showing they are better during the game. Many here think Flowers looked okay in the Pitt game, but then I guess everybody else didn't because I didn't see any push or running lanes, and often saw the QB on his ass.
Aug 19th and counting...
Let's face it, protecting for Eli is a lot different than protecting for Johnson.....
It's too late to be shuffling positions in the line now....continuity and each man knowing what the the guy to the left and right of them is doing, is imperative.....
Early success is important to the confidence of this line....let's hope they get off on the right foot....
too many OL coaches against the same failed draft and vet selection for oline. Reese overspends on specialty positions.
Way too early to panic. The panic should be more of the paper thin depth. Jones Gettis. Fluker seems to be a guy who just can adjust to pro speed. As a back up he may be ok. He's still learning the O and his teammates but injuries on he OL could totally destroy this year. The back ups at T are Pugh and Fluker. One pretty much failed there and moving Pugh hurts cohesiveness of an already suspect group
Very interested to see how Ramczyk and Robinson do. Both thrown in like Flowers was this year. Engram will be a star but it's good for thought. No a slam on Engram or his choice
To various degrees. A wholesale swap maybe way off the scale, but at least securing blind-side protection for Eli remains the #1 priority, that's where moving Pugh to LT is the best of several mediocre options.
I do agree, Smith (at fullback)and Ellison as a good in-line blocking TE is going to help a lot.
what happens when the games really begin.
I don't need a daily practice report on Flowers for example,
or Bobby Hart, etc....Wait until the opening bell for me.
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I am perfectly fine with McAdoo sticking up for his players but how many years of substandard OL play is too much? The OL has taken a beating by the fans amd the media. Nobody wants to see them fail but the production is 100% unacceptable.
Seems as though this should be directed as much or more vs. Reese than Mac. I don't think Mac shies away from Parcellsian motivation and caustic comments when warranted, so for whatever reasons--OL temperament/psyche, lack of options, he's seeing progress not yet visible to us fans--he has yet to do that.
This. Flowers isn't the pick of the OL wasn't paper thin. Reese has killed it just about everywhere else in the draft and FA. Even if it all gels and the OL takes a big step up Pugh and Richberg may be gone. Jerry is just so average the depth issue has to be a concern for Mac. W OBJ and Collins due w huge deals as well as Pugh and Richberg up even if the draft is pretty bare like last years for thebOL they have no choice but to go that way heavy.
laughably bad view on the subject but okay.
We also should have better TE blocking with R. Ellison and that helps.
We just need a RB to step up and take charge. I still believe Perkins will be the man but only time will tell.
There are those that question Flower's desire, and whether he wants it or not, based on his body language - and this not just a small amount of those who watch him on a regular basis
He really is an enigma - because he has noticeably improved in a bunch of areas and has put work into slimming down, footwork, hand placement, punch, body position -- but he appears to be really disinterested quite a bit of the time
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hard to believe a guy with his size, strength, work ethic, and desire to improve will not do just that. Now somebody has to figures out how to develop those qualities. Think we are committed to give this our best shot and we should. Rooting for him and us.
There are those that question Flower's desire, and whether he wants it or not, based on his body language - and this not just a small amount of those who watch him on a regular basis
He really is an enigma - because he has noticeably improved in a bunch of areas and has put work into slimming down, footwork, hand placement, punch, body position -- but he appears to be really disinterested quite a bit of the time
In a nutshell, if Flowers was bottom 20% last year and Hart too, if they can get to 50% (middle of the pack) we are a much better team, especially due to Ellison's help. I truly believe the youth will improve; the continuity will help; and, the knowledge of the system also will make for less thinking and more attacking.
The Giants offense should fall in the 10 - 15 range in most areas IF the OL performs. It could be in the 6 - 12 range if the OL really performas.