The OL sucked last year & it hasn't looked much better this preseason. Do you move guys around? Do you make a trade? Do you promote someone like Fluker & see what he can do? This offense has some serious skill players, but that doesn't mean jack if Eli has like two seconds to get rid of the ball/Perkins can't find a hole.
Really frustrating to see the OL continuing to struggle. Dallas is less than 3 weeks away.
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In comment 13567945 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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the playoffs you'd fire Reese simply for the OL??
Would people be happy if he improved the OL and another area was weak? No. A GM should be judged on the body of his work and success, not individual units.
If they average less than 20 points a game and go one and done again (if they qualify) and it's clear as day the OL held the team back, then yes I would pull the trigger. His body of work with regard to the OL leaves a ton to be desired.
Lol. You're gonna fire the gm. After back to back playoff seasons. Two rings.
Are you gonna fire Ozzie newsome too? What about the Seattle gm who's likely gonna have a flawed OL AGAIN in 2017.
The bills gm is awesome tho. Got that bills team headed in the right direction. Clearly.
You're assuming they qualify. If they do, it sure as fuck won't be because of the OL (and offense). You counting on the D to save their ass all year again?
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He tried to "unretire" and was released from the Jags. I believe that makes him a free agent. Could do worse than a a guy who was slated to be a starting LT as an insurance policy.
I think you'd have to seriously question his commitment to playing football. Is that a guy you really want?
Sure, you're not going to get a guy of his caliber at this point in the year without some baggage. But bottom line is that he played at a high level for 9 seasons. Maybe money was the only thing motivating him all those years, but I'll take a guy who plays like that in exchange for a one year contract. It's a unique opportunity imo.
You guys realize the maras aren't thinking about 2012-2013 anymore right? It's 2017. The giants have flaws but they are built to win. They will likely have to do what the other good or great teams do these days and that is win despite some flaws.
Would it make you more confident in Reese if the OL was good but the WRs were terrible? The team would still be flawed. I don't understand why everyone fixates on "five years of bad OL" -- do you really honestly believe that Reese doesn't recognize OL talent or simply doesn't care about OL? He didn't care about TEs either right? Until he did.
You can fixate on five years but it's irrelevant. It's a coincidence.
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In comment 13567918 MookGiants said:
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all year, and based on the past couple years there is no rrewson to believe it wont, it should gost Reese his job. Yes hes done a good job elsewhere but having an entire unit this bad this long should get him fired
I don't even want to but I'll bite...
Do you want to fire Reese as punishment or do you think there is a better guy out there?
You're ready to fire the gm based on a lackluster preseason game... smh
We're 5 years running on the porous OL. Whether or not someone out there is sure to be better, his failure to adequately protect Eli during the prime of his career is at minimum, a fireable offense.
Been saying this for years. They've been re-arranging the deck chairs along that OL since 2013. Something is flawed how they evaluate that unit in comparison to the rest of the roster.
You guys realize the maras aren't thinking about 2012-2013 anymore right? It's 2017. The giants have flaws but they are built to win. They will likely have to do what the other good or great teams do these days and that is win despite some flaws.
Would it make you more confident in Reese if the OL was good but the WRs were terrible? The team would still be flawed. I don't understand why everyone fixates on "five years of bad OL" -- do you really honestly believe that Reese doesn't recognize OL talent or simply doesn't care about OL? He didn't care about TEs either right? Until he did.
You can fixate on five years but it's irrelevant. It's a coincidence.
Give it a rest aleady DJM. The offense and oline didnt look good again and the guys want to vent...so let them.
But the OL story is criminal at this point. I hope Eli will overcome it on the way to ring #3 but if he doesn't, I know exactly where I'm pointing the finger.
The rest of the roster looks pretty good but it's all for naught if Eli only has 1.5 seconds to throw the ball every other play.
Give it a rest aleady DJM. The offense and oline didnt look good again and the guys want to vent...so let them.
What are you complaining about, we've been letting you spew nonsense for years now.
And you only fire someone if you think there's a better replacement out there. You don't fire to punish or make a statement.
Again I just didn't see anything to be alarmed about tonight. It was just another boring sloppy preseason game. Eli got sacked once or twice. Ok.. that happens.
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In comment 13567973 The_Boss said:
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In comment 13567945 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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the playoffs you'd fire Reese simply for the OL??
Would people be happy if he improved the OL and another area was weak? No. A GM should be judged on the body of his work and success, not individual units.
If they average less than 20 points a game and go one and done again (if they qualify) and it's clear as day the OL held the team back, then yes I would pull the trigger. His body of work with regard to the OL leaves a ton to be desired.
Lol. You're gonna fire the gm. After back to back playoff seasons. Two rings.
Are you gonna fire Ozzie newsome too? What about the Seattle gm who's likely gonna have a flawed OL AGAIN in 2017.
The bills gm is awesome tho. Got that bills team headed in the right direction. Clearly.
You're assuming they qualify. If they do, it sure as fuck won't be because of the OL (and offense). You counting on the D to save their ass all year again?
I don't know... maybe.... yeah I guess I am. I'm hoping some part of this team can carry it all the way.
Guys just accept it. The OL isn't 1990 good or 2008 good. Every game that they don't resemble greatness you guys go ape shit. They can still win this year and I'd save the angst for when the games count.
Every summer every year... same shit.
Yes, there are a dozen qualifiers....you need to find a willing trading partner, changing out one or two players doesn't guarantee better results, etc etc etc. But it's clear that there is a pretty significant talent deficiency at OL.
You guys realize the maras aren't thinking about 2012-2013 anymore right? It's 2017. The giants have flaws but they are built to win. They will likely have to do what the other good or great teams do these days and that is win despite some flaws.
Would it make you more confident in Reese if the OL was good but the WRs were terrible? The team would still be flawed. I don't understand why everyone fixates on "five years of bad OL" -- do you really honestly believe that Reese doesn't recognize OL talent or simply doesn't care about OL? He didn't care about TEs either right? Until he did.
You can fixate on five years but it's irrelevant. It's a coincidence.
Why draft Tomlinson over an OL? Why draft David Wilson over Cordy Glenn? Clint Sintim over Max Unger? Reese doesn't invest in he OL
Enough. So that fact that is sucks
Is on him. Just like he should get major kudos for the D.
It is what it is. The OL sucked for ever. You pretending it doesn't and making excuses for it doesn't make it good. It was really shitty year and all they did was bring in Fluker. So if you only want to focus on this year then Reese is in the book. And if the team doesn't win due to the OL then why can't he Bear the responsibility
The problem is this line doesn't do either particularly well.
I don't know enough about the running game to explain how to fix it, but we may simply have a talent issue.
The problem is this line doesn't do either particularly well.
That line gave up the most pressures in the NFL that season; they weren't good enough then, they stunk.
The QB just covered for them. And he's likely just going to have to do it again now, however improbable it may seem, if they're going to do anything offensively this year.
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That squad was good enough at pass protection in spite of a dead last ranking rushing the ball.
The problem is this line doesn't do either particularly well.
That line gave up the most pressures in the NFL that season; they weren't good enough then, they stunk.
The QB just covered for them. And he's likely just going to have to do it again now, however improbable it may seem, if they're going to do anything offensively this year.
2017 Eli isn't the fearless 2011 Eli. He's more cognizant of the pass rush.
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In comment 13568179 widmerseyebrow said:
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That squad was good enough at pass protection in spite of a dead last ranking rushing the ball.
The problem is this line doesn't do either particularly well.
That line gave up the most pressures in the NFL that season; they weren't good enough then, they stunk.
The QB just covered for them. And he's likely just going to have to do it again now, however improbable it may seem, if they're going to do anything offensively this year.
2017 Eli isn't the fearless 2011 Eli. He's more cognizant of the pass rush.
I don't disagree -- his internal clock was clearly busted last season after the hit in the Washington game. The years of this mess (no one cite sack totals; Eli is never ever going to take a lot of sacks/official hits, no matter how terrible the OL is) have taken their toll on him.
But we are where we are. He either rises up and covers for them, however improbably, or they're likely going to be fucked.
I don't think cutting Jerry and Fluker is going to solve anything.
And if you're going to move Pugh back to OT, it might not be the left side that needs the help as much as the right...
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the playoffs you'd fire Reese simply for the OL??
Would people be happy if he improved the OL and another area was weak? No. A GM should be judged on the body of his work and success, not individual units.
If they average less than 20 points a game and go one and done again (if they qualify) and it's clear as day the OL held the team back, then yes I would pull the trigger. His body of work with regard to the OL leaves a ton to be desired.
And believe me, that is weighing in his total body of work. That factors in doing shit with TE for years. That factors in doing shit with LBs for years. That factors in no playoff appearances for more than a couple of years. I am still wondering why the owner blamed 2015 chiefly on personnel, but fires the HC and retains the GM.
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It means nothing. I see this is gonna be the new horse shit narrative. Let's use 2013 to bash the gm? Is that it.
You guys realize the maras aren't thinking about 2012-2013 anymore right? It's 2017. The giants have flaws but they are built to win. They will likely have to do what the other good or great teams do these days and that is win despite some flaws.
Would it make you more confident in Reese if the OL was good but the WRs were terrible? The team would still be flawed. I don't understand why everyone fixates on "five years of bad OL" -- do you really honestly believe that Reese doesn't recognize OL talent or simply doesn't care about OL? He didn't care about TEs either right? Until he did.
You can fixate on five years but it's irrelevant. It's a coincidence.
Why draft Tomlinson over an OL? Why draft David Wilson over Cordy Glenn? Clint Sintim over Max Unger? Reese doesn't invest in he OL
Enough. So that fact that is sucks
Is on him. Just like he should get major kudos for the D.
It is what it is. The OL sucked for ever. You pretending it doesn't and making excuses for it doesn't make it good. It was really shitty year and all they did was bring in Fluker. So if you only want to focus on this year then Reese is in the book. And if the team doesn't win due to the OL then why can't he Bear the responsibility
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And when only one out of your 3 early first OL picks works and he will most likely be gone next year.
He was considered the 2nd best Center in 2015 and spent almost all of last year injured. Like I said before - because the line has been poor, people think every guy sucks
Considered by who? He didn't sniff the Pro Bowl or either All Pro team. Where is the evidence?
He couldn't beat out J.D. Walton as a rookie, stunk at LG and got benched when there was nobody good to replace him, played OK in 2015, stunk last year and looks like he stinks again right now in the preseason. At no point was he ever even close to the best C in the NFL and that is a ridiculous statement to be clinging to!
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does Richburg get shit on like he's horrible??
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And when only one out of your 3 early first OL picks works and he will most likely be gone next year.
He was considered the 2nd best Center in 2015 and spent almost all of last year injured. Like I said before - because the line has been poor, people think every guy sucks
Considered by who? He didn't sniff the Pro Bowl or either All Pro team. Where is the evidence?
He couldn't beat out J.D. Walton as a rookie, stunk at LG and got benched when there was nobody good to replace him, played OK in 2015, stunk last year and looks like he stinks again right now in the preseason. At no point was he ever even close to the best C in the NFL and that is a ridiculous statement to be clinging to!
He played way more than "ok" in 2015. Saying otherwise is just revisionist history based on his regression in 2016.
I know O-Line play is generally down across the league, but it is disconcerting how bad this unit has been for several years running now.
Every time a nyg rb does something uninspiring everyone just blames the OL. I don't see it all on the OL at all. Perkins is uninspiring. He's not very fast or powerful and he danced a little too much on or or two or three plays tonight.
And you only fire someone if you think there's a better replacement out there. You don't fire to punish or make a statement.
Again I just didn't see anything to be alarmed about tonight. It was just another boring sloppy preseason game. Eli got sacked once or twice. Ok.. that happens.
Enough. So that fact that is sucks
Flowers, Pugh and Richburg laugh at your assertion that Reese doesn't invest in the OL. But cherry picking people who you think would be better served with an OL guy is enthralling shit.
What if we picked an OL guy instead of Pierre-Paul or Beckham? Shit, why not have stayed pat in 2004 and drafted OL instead of Eli?? It is an exercise in futility, but more importantly, it is flat out wrong to assert reese doesn't invest in the OL. Are you fucking blind?
We can even look at 2016 and his pass blocking - a year he was hurt:
From PFF:
Richburg - best pass blocking Center in 2016 - ( New Window )
I mean, I was like a broken record on that shit.
The 2014 second-round pick out of Colorado State moved to his natural position, center, after spending his rookie year at guard and had a sensational campaign, putting himself in Pro Bowl consideration.
As a result, Richburg has been named Pro Football Focus' No. 2 breakout player of the year
Richburg - Breakout player - ( New Window )
keep practicing outside zone right and left.
Not sure if Solari is as much of a one on one technique and communicator as, say, Spagnulo, but, if not, he needs to get his shit together as to what to run and very specifically how to run it.
Front office says 'coach up the guys we have' as opposed to draft high...so....so be it there is no third option
I have been saying it since Dave Brown:
>
If you cannot run, if you end up with dink and dunk and chuck and duck (longer passes), you end up with WR injuries (becks and shep last night) due to the D sits back and hammers the expected dinks receivers.
Same thing around the time of very early Eli...the 'pass as run' seems to be ok...then 'unexpected' WR injuries...'oh well, big excuse'....
I think I'll wait as I always do
Big Blue '56 : 8:29 am : link : reply
to allow the OL to get their 60-70 or more of consistent snaps a game where synergy is built over a period of of several games before ATTEMPTING to assess where we are..I will NOT go by last year and I will NOT go by preseason.
There's a reason why Parcells et al have said it takes around 4 regular season games to "see what you have."
We have to hope that the WR's are ok health-wise and then hope for a couple of dynamic plays a game just like last year.
Very nice and well executed by the line.
looking at highlights, lots of show offy type run attempts and routes, less quick hit simple blocking type plays than we need.
even on a different outside zone run left, failed one, Flowers had his man but let him go, assuming the runner was past already....oosh, good news bad news there, wrong mindset
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That squad was good enough at pass protection in spite of a dead last ranking rushing the ball.
The problem is this line doesn't do either particularly well.
That line gave up the most pressures in the NFL that season; they weren't good enough then, they stunk.
The QB just covered for them. And he's likely just going to have to do it again now, however improbable it may seem, if they're going to do anything offensively this year.
In a completely different offense that emphasized downfield passing. Eli hanging in until the last second in that offense vs. this offense is probably the difference of a full second or two.
None of that has happened or even considered.
While we are busy looking at Flowers, Hart is struggling and Jerry has found a new low. Fluker so far hasn't proven conclusively to be an improvement over Jerry but at this point I'll take the chance and start Fluker against the Jets.
Jersey55 : 4:28 pm : link : reply
, especially me but he seems to walk on water and can do no wrong with the front office, enough is enough with this guy he sucks, its time for an upgrade at the GM position..
Are you one of the putzes that thinks he sucks because of the OL but takes the continued strength of the DB's and DE's as a given?
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everybody keeps bitching about Jerry Reese
Jersey55 : 4:28 pm : link : reply
, especially me but he seems to walk on water and can do no wrong with the front office, enough is enough with this guy he sucks, its time for an upgrade at the GM position..
Are you one of the putzes that thinks he sucks because of the OL but takes the continued strength of the DB's and DE's as a given?
No I'm one of the putzes who thinks Reese was lucky to be able to buy a defense at a time when the team had lots of cap money, but now we don't have that kind of cap money and he seems helpless, and yes I think he sucks because of the O line , its his job to supply what the team needs and he isn't getting the job done, are you happy with the O line??
You don't see a contradiction is ranting against a guy for weaknesses and not factoring in strengths?
If you think the OL has sucked for a long time, well, the DB's and DE's have been very strong for years.
Keep in mind, i didn't see them breakdown as much yesterday either but they sure is shit didn't win at the point of attack either. And getting a stalemate is really losing if your playing offense.
At the end of the day, the Offense doesn't gain anything on first down pressuring the other downs, it punts too often and it doesn't score enough points.
Finding a scapegoat for each play is a waste of time b/c you cannot fire the whole team. You find the worst or repeat offenders and make changes...
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I didn't see anything alarming at all.
Every time a nyg rb does something uninspiring everyone just blames the OL. I don't see it all on the OL at all. Perkins is uninspiring. He's not very fast or powerful and he danced a little too much on or or two or three plays tonight.
No RB is going to do well when the defenders are in the backfield and in his face within a step of being handed the ball.
That's not what actually happens every time or even half the time but ok.