took over last year and it is clear he intentionally put the offense into a shell last year realizing the defense was controlling games.
It can be argued that the offense was stagnant (for the year he's been head coach), but it can also be argued that as the HC, he stuck to the goal of putting the team in the best position to win. It isn't just happenstance that we closed out games last year, in part by minimizing mistakes on offense and controlling field position.
It's sort of like the OL discussion - People go apeshit over the unit being below average, but every team either has a subpar unit or they end up having a bunch of mediocre units. It's a reality today. But we don't focus on the DB's being one of the best in the league. We don't focus on continued excellent DE play - we say things like the GM should be fired for not improving the OL, as if that point alone is the only thing that matters.
I don't think we've seen McAdoo's offense yet. Last year he lost his FB and had little at WR outside of Beckham and no TE presence to stretch the field.
But hey, after preseason game #2, I guess many of you already know what the offense will look like.
My problem with intentionally putting the offense in a shell is that when you do that, you can't just flick the switch and take them out of it when you need it. Like Green Bay. Everybody on this board knew we were going to have to score over 20 points to beat Green Bay. We got smoked.
Not shocking that we'd lose a road playoff game, even if we played excellent on offense.
Not to start the game. It got away in the second half, but our defense was stifling Rogers and hitting him a lot in the first quarter/half. The offense couldn't capitalize, Rogers adjusted, and off it went.
I'll repeat for the final time a re-post from 2 other threads:
I think I'll wait as I always do to allow the OL to get their 60-70 or more of consistent snaps a game where synergy is built over a period of of several games before ATTEMPTING to assess where we are..I will NOT go by last year and I will NOT go by preseason.
There's a reason why Parcells et al have said it takes around 4 regular season games to "see what you have."
the defense got some stops. It also let up a Hail Mary that absolutely crushed the team. That's far more inexcuseable than expecting the offense to throw up 30 points.
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
the defense got some stops. It also let up a Hail Mary that absolutely crushed the team. That's far more inexcuseable than expecting the offense to throw up 30 points.
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
Agree. McAdoo did a great job last year and proved that he is a Head Coach, not just an "offense guy". He coaches the whole team and puts thm in position to win, and is not wedded to an ideology.
the defense got some stops. It also let up a Hail Mary that absolutely crushed the team. That's far more inexcuseable than expecting the offense to throw up 30 points.
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
It was. My problem is, why is the team one dimensional? That's my whole issue.
The 2015 Giants offense could have hung with Green Bay, arguably with less players on offense than what we had last year. They scored over 30 points 7 times in 2015. They scored over 20 points in all but three games that season.
The 2016 Giants not only never scored 30 points, they only made it to 20 points in 7 games.
What happened that made them so one dimensional? That's what I can't wrap my head around.
was an extremely disappointing and desultory performance that is not at all completely excused by the fact that this is preseason.
There are legitimate concerns after two games that the OL is no better than last year. We have struggled to move the ball, and have no touchdowns. We are the second worst rushing team in the league since 2011. Only Jacksonville is worse.
Aside from Pugh, our guards and tackles don't seem to have quick enough feet. Flowers is still resorting to choke holds to compensate for his inability to handle speed rushers. Richburg also gets pushed back into pocket. We seem to have a hard time picking up simple stunts.
I assume there isn't much veteran OL help, but I wouldn't be surprised if we pick up someone after final cuts. Packaging some players we intend to cut for a veteran OL might also be a possibility.
In the interim, I think we should consider moving Pugh to LT, and Flowers to either LG or RG, with Gettis at the other spot. I'm inclined to cut Jerry, and probably Fluker, although I agree that won't happen. But at least one should not be on the final roster. Until we solve this problem, teams will just continue blitzing and stunting.
The backup QB situation is also concerning. Everybody knows we're finished if Eli is out for a significant period of time. But we hope that our backup QB could at least carry us for a few games. Right now, I have no confidence that Johnson or Smith could do so.
The defense of course was excellent. Munson has played well.
wasn't dominant. They had a lot of problems running the ball, had little at TE and weren't good in short yardage conversions.
What they did have was the luxury of playing from behind and they HAD to try and score.
I don't know if it is being purposely glossed over to fit a narrative, but last year's team was better off when the offense minimized mistakes and played close to the vest. It wasn't ideal, but I believe if you tried to open up things and we took sacks or gave up turnovers, that we'd have had a worst record.
McAdoo coached to the team's strength, not too unlike what Denver did the year before.
Statistically speaking, the offense was terrible vs. 2015. In actual play, the differences weren't that stark. They just weren't called on to have to throw 50+ times or play from double-digit deficits for 3/4ths of a game.
It's great the Giants sucked! And it's OK the first string offense had their asses handed to them for the entire first half, because the 2nd half was played by guys we knew were going to suck anyway!
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Do you truly believe the Browns are a better team than the Giants? That if they played ten times in 2017, the Browns hold serve or impose their will on the Giants?
last night actually had an impact on some of you? Seriously?
wasn't dominant. They had a lot of problems running the ball, had little at TE and weren't good in short yardage conversions.
What they did have was the luxury of playing from behind and they HAD to try and score.
I don't know if it is being purposely glossed over to fit a narrative, but last year's team was better off when the offense minimized mistakes and played close to the vest. It wasn't ideal, but I believe if you tried to open up things and we took sacks or gave up turnovers, that we'd have had a worst record.
McAdoo coached to the team's strength, not too unlike what Denver did the year before.
Statistically speaking, the offense was terrible vs. 2015. In actual play, the differences weren't that stark. They just weren't called on to have to throw 50+ times or play from double-digit deficits for 3/4ths of a game.
I agree with your point about playing to the team's strength. I also believe that not doing that would have resulted in a worse record.
I still just can't understand the proverbial cliff the offense fell off in between 2015 and 2016.
I may be wrong, but I think that playing from behind in 2015 thing isn't true. I remember a stat from the 2015 season, and somebody could double check this... I believe the 2015 Giants lost something like 6 or 7 games where they had the lead with under 4 minutes to go.
that HCs around the NFL have openly admitted to calling plays in the preseason that are doomed to fail. Did you forget that or even let that FACT even register?
Again, HCs in the NFL have openly acknowledged that they will instruct the QB to run the play even if it's certain to fail.
Read that last sentence over and over again until it sinks in.
I can't believe how worked up some of you get over this garbage.
that they were scoring in garbage time when the other team had put it on cruise control.
If that stat I posted above is accurate, then that's not the case. The offense was scoring when it had to, not because the other team already had it in the bag.
was easily the most overrated NYG offense in my lifetime. I stand by that. IT didn't close games. It didn't win many games. It scored points sometimes. It piled up yardage at times. And it won 12 games over two seasons. Whenever the chips were down, the offense folded faster than a poker hand of 2-7.
So last year comes along. Everyone just expects the offense to go bananas even though there was only one legit WR on the team. No RB talent AT ALL. None. An average at best OL that lost its best player for half the season. NO professional TEs AT ALL. That offense. So what did the offense do? IT struggled after playing well through the first 3 games. It struggled to pile up big numbers. It struggled to run the ball over most of the year. But what did the offense do? It closed games. When the games were tight in the 2nd half, I can think of about 4-5 instances where that so called garbage offense delivered a TD drive or FG drives needed to win a game. It even ran the ball down the stretch of a few games which led to victories.
The Giants went 11-5 last year. Eli found ways to win games last year that he found ways to lose in 14-15. Call it what you will. McAdoo grew into his job last year. Eli learned how to win again last year. Let's see what they do in 2017. Again, people need to fucking forget about 2014 and 2015. Those seasons were fucking disgusting. Those offenses were overrated and misleading. This team is different. New HC. New players. Let's see if this offense grows in 2017 before you condemn it. It's not growing out of the ashes of 2015. IT's building from a different place.
I'm just cranky and a little hungover from staying up late and watching last night.
I'm hopeful that the offense can get it together and do their part to help the defense continue to win games.
I'm still not adjusted to the "new look" Giants I guess.
The team was one way for over a decade, and now it's like the polar opposite of that. I guess I'm still trying to wrap my head around the new philosophy.
was easily the most overrated NYG offense in my lifetime. I stand by that. IT didn't close games. It didn't win many games. It scored points sometimes. It piled up yardage at times. And it won 12 games over two seasons. Whenever the chips were down, the offense folded faster than a poker hand of 2-7.
So last year comes along. Everyone just expects the offense to go bananas even though there was only one legit WR on the team. No RB talent AT ALL. None. An average at best OL that lost its best player for half the season. NO professional TEs AT ALL. That offense. So what did the offense do? IT struggled after playing well through the first 3 games. It struggled to pile up big numbers. It struggled to run the ball over most of the year. But what did the offense do? It closed games. When the games were tight in the 2nd half, I can think of about 4-5 instances where that so called garbage offense delivered a TD drive or FG drives needed to win a game. It even ran the ball down the stretch of a few games which led to victories.
The Giants went 11-5 last year. Eli found ways to win games last year that he found ways to lose in 14-15. Call it what you will. McAdoo grew into his job last year. Eli learned how to win again last year. Let's see what they do in 2017. Again, people need to fucking forget about 2014 and 2015. Those seasons were fucking disgusting. Those offenses were overrated and misleading. This team is different. New HC. New players. Let's see if this offense grows in 2017 before you condemn it. It's not growing out of the ashes of 2015. IT's building from a different place.
I actually agree with you, and that's kind of what I just wrote. I just need to get used to it.
don't you think it's possible that teams finally figured out how to stop the Giants (Beckham) offense? From 14-15 all the Giants had was Beckham. That was it yet they found ways to score and produce. Is it remotely possible that the chicken was coming home to roost? That even if Coughlin had stayed and coached the team in 2016, this good ship loli-pop offense was going to sink just a bit?
The personnel wasn't that good in 14-15. IT wasn't that good last year. We were all a bit fooled. I know I was. But looking back, the offense struggling at times last year makes a ton of sense. It was basically quick strikes to Beckham and Shepard and pray for rain.
dude you are romanticizing the 2015 offense. They would have gone on the road against a good team and played well??? BAsed on what? Don't conjure up stats. Conjure up your actual gut feeling. Conjure up logic. The 2015 Giants couldn't beat anyone worth their salt. I could see them scoring a few TDs early only to blow the lead and then the offense would remain in neutral the rest of the game.
You're acting like the 14-15 offenses carried the Giants to actual victory. No, not all their production came in garbage time but they scored points in a losing effort time and time again. They weren't very good. Period. That offense was the epitome of average and with little staying power. It was 1980s AFC style. IT sucked.
dude you are romanticizing the 2015 offense. They would have gone on the road against a good team and played well??? BAsed on what? Don't conjure up stats. Conjure up your actual gut feeling. Conjure up logic. The 2015 Giants couldn't beat anyone worth their salt. I could see them scoring a few TDs early only to blow the lead and then the offense would remain in neutral the rest of the game.
You're acting like the 14-15 offenses carried the Giants to actual victory. No, not all their production came in garbage time but they scored points in a losing effort time and time again. They weren't very good. Period. That offense was the epitome of average and with little staying power. It was 1980s AFC style. IT sucked.
They took the lead on the 13-0 Carolina Panthers (6th best defense in the NFL with Josh Norman) with under 2 minutes to play, after being down 21 points in the 4th quarter, who nearly had an undefeated regular season and made it to the Superbowl. Until the defense folded like a cheap suit and allowed Cam and company to effortlessly move into field goal range for the game winner as time expired.
don't get me wrong. I have concerns too. We all do. I just can't base things on 2014 and 2015 anymore. After Washington week 3 last year I told myself to put 2016 in a vacuum. To treat the season as new. What was done was done. I knew there were gonna be tough times ahead with road games at GB and Minny lurking. All I wanted was the 2016 team to learn how to win again. In my eyes, it wasn't about stats anymore. It was about an identity. The Giants had to win games last year. HAd to.
Now we see how this team responds to more pressure and tougher games. The talent has been upgraded. The HC has a year under his belt. Talk to me in January. Until then I will cautiously hope (expect) this team to mature and progress off of LAST season. Not 2014. Not 2015. Not 2007. New team. New players. No era. What happened in 2015 means next to nothing in my view. I know McAdoo can call an offense. I saw him do it for two years. That's how he got the HC job. Now win big games in January. I couldn't care less about stats.
Remember when we all hated Gilbride and wanted him out
And that game was an excellent example of one they had to score just to get back to the tie. In New Orleans, they had to keep scoring because the D was so poor and yet when they had a chance to make a winning drive, they went three and out, punted and set them up for a winning FG.
Against the Jets, they failed to pick up a 3rd and 1 and then missed a FG that would've won the game. And that doesn't even discuss the games against the Cowboys and Falcons to open up the year where the inability to run clock or make a game-clinching play ended up seeing the D let up game-losing drives.
When the offense had the chance to win games, it failed more often than it succeeded, which is actually the opposite of what happened last year
Doesn't matter anymore. That 2015 team also had a fresher JEnnings and healthy Vereen.
I just think it's a mistake to base this offense on those 14-15 teams. Apples and oranges. Base 2016 on nothing. BAse it on a team that was lost in a 4 year wilderness of tough losses. Base it on a new HC and new team. Fresh start. How does 2016 look if you were starting from scratch? Pretty damn good in my eyes. 11 wins is 11 wins.
in my opinion, this 2017 offense really has to do one thing and one thing only. It has to be smarter with the football. Cut down on turnovers. Be smart with the ball. This D is nasty good. This O has play makers on it. When you turn the ball over not only do you force the D to play more, you lose an opportunity to score on offense. You also lose continuity. You lose that flow to the game that the offense needs to roll.
Don't. Turn. The. Ball. Over. I think McAdoo has been trying to build an identity on offense but it can take time. They weren't smart enough last year. Eli threw some picks or passes last year that are unacceptable, especially with this team. I would think its been hard for Eli to sort of change his way of attacking. He's always been a gunslinger. Who knows. But If I had to bet I would think they want a smarter offense in 2017.
since he got here 3 years ago. Beyond Odell Beckham making insane individual efforts we do absolutely nothing. And this is with Eli Manning at QB. Nothing.
I find it hilarious that people are giving him so much credit for getting us to 11-5. Shouldn't Spags and the defensive players be getting the lion's share of the credit?
McAdoo's biggest plus is he's realized to get the f#ck out of the way and not screw it up for the defense. I apologize if I'm not sold on anything he's personally doing yet. And I freely admit I hate the WCO, never wanted him here and do not think his style fits the NY climate in particular.
since he got here 3 years ago. Beyond Odell Beckham making insane individual efforts we do absolutely nothing. And this is with Eli Manning at QB. Nothing.
I find it hilarious that people are giving him so much credit for getting us to 11-5. Shouldn't Spags and the defensive players be getting the lion's share of the credit?
McAdoo's biggest plus is he's realized to get the f#ck out of the way and not screw it up for the defense. I apologize if I'm not sold on anything he's personally doing yet. And I freely admit I hate the WCO, never wanted him here and do not think his style fits the NY climate in particular.
they run the west coast offense in green bay, how does it not fit the new york climate? patriots are in shotgun and passing more times than not and are in foxboro...
it is a passing league...
They flat out ignored the OL the last two offseasons
Last year, with the improvements made to the D, It was proved to be the right call. This year, they had some money to work with, and didn't improve the OL at all. You don't need to be an expert to see that Jerry/Hart are not worthy of starting on this OL. You could get by with one of them and 4 quality guys, but not on this group.
I have to look at the OL coach too. 2 years ago you had 2 young, promising guys in Richburg and Flowers, and here we are 2 yrs later and we haven't seen improvement in either, and you could argue there is significant regression. That first sack last night was a very simple pickup that Jerry/Hart couldn't handle. That scares me.
RE: They flat out ignored the OL the last two offseasons
Last year, with the improvements made to the D, It was proved to be the right call. This year, they had some money to work with, and didn't improve the OL at all. You don't need to be an expert to see that Jerry/Hart are not worthy of starting on this OL. You could get by with one of them and 4 quality guys, but not on this group.
I have to look at the OL coach too. 2 years ago you had 2 young, promising guys in Richburg and Flowers, and here we are 2 yrs later and we haven't seen improvement in either, and you could argue there is significant regression. That first sack last night was a very simple pickup that Jerry/Hart couldn't handle. That scares me.
what good ol were on the market that the giants could afford?
Are you seriously asking me why it works in GB and NE?
Ever hear of Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick?
I'm talking about ideal systems for the climate you play in. A WCO for a windy, rainy, cold, outdoor football team is not ideal. I'm not sure why that's such a controversial statement.
And it's certainly not ideal for an immobile QB who struggles with accuracy.
What exactly has he done to prove he is a good offensive mind? We blindly (and quickly) promoted him through the ranks like an owner handing over the company to his son. Based on no real experience.
So - IMO - not only are we running a bad scheme for our location/QB, we are running a crappy version of that scheme.
Again, just my opinion, and I'm not surprised it's an unpopular one. I will stop, as I don't care to drag McAdoo's name through the mud anymore than I have. Just frustrated with his 3 years here.
think people understand how mild the weather is at Giants games.
They are more likely to face adverse conditions on the road when they play in rainy Florida or the Midwest teams than they are to face horrible weather in NY.
Heck, the last several seasons they have games in December that are in the high 50's.
is that why he has thrown for more than 4000 yards each year in this offense? averaged 30 tds a year in this offense? yards per completion is 3 of his highest for his career, yards per game is 3 of his highest..
the only year he was better is 2011, so how again does it not fit the qb?
the facts dont line up with your opinion..
Fact eli is better im this offense and more accurate than in gillbrides offense..
I guess if we have to watch another season of McAdoo putting his offense in a shell to keep games close at least this year we have a kicker that might be able to get us more FGs in the 50 yard range instead of settling for more pooch punts.
took over last year and it is clear he intentionally put the offense into a shell last year realizing the defense was controlling games.
It can be argued that the offense was stagnant (for the year he's been head coach), but it can also be argued that as the HC, he stuck to the goal of putting the team in the best position to win. It isn't just happenstance that we closed out games last year, in part by minimizing mistakes on offense and controlling field position.
It's sort of like the OL discussion - People go apeshit over the unit being below average, but every team either has a subpar unit or they end up having a bunch of mediocre units. It's a reality today. But we don't focus on the DB's being one of the best in the league. We don't focus on continued excellent DE play - we say things like the GM should be fired for not improving the OL, as if that point alone is the only thing that matters.
I don't think we've seen McAdoo's offense yet. Last year he lost his FB and had little at WR outside of Beckham and no TE presence to stretch the field.
But hey, after preseason game #2, I guess many of you already know what the offense will look like.
Well calibrated post, i.e. no heavy breathing or doom & gloom. Many posters seem to believe that what's obvious to them is overlooked and neglected by a staff of a dozen or more professional coaches. Crazy!
but it is what it is.. We can't change the fact that Mcadoo is the HC so we just have to wait and see how this all pans out. We shall see if this is just a preseason thing and if it spills over into the season.
And continued to be a one dimensional turd all season long. We are now going into year two where there's seemingly no cohesion and very little variation. The only team last season to run the same offense set for what, 96% of all snaps?
That'd hardly four games. That's plenty enough time to see "what you have" considering we've brought back virtually every starter and added a starting WR and a blocking TE.
It can be argued that the offense was stagnant (for the year he's been head coach), but it can also be argued that as the HC, he stuck to the goal of putting the team in the best position to win. It isn't just happenstance that we closed out games last year, in part by minimizing mistakes on offense and controlling field position.
It's sort of like the OL discussion - People go apeshit over the unit being below average, but every team either has a subpar unit or they end up having a bunch of mediocre units. It's a reality today. But we don't focus on the DB's being one of the best in the league. We don't focus on continued excellent DE play - we say things like the GM should be fired for not improving the OL, as if that point alone is the only thing that matters.
I don't think we've seen McAdoo's offense yet. Last year he lost his FB and had little at WR outside of Beckham and no TE presence to stretch the field.
But hey, after preseason game #2, I guess many of you already know what the offense will look like.
My problem with intentionally putting the offense in a shell is that when you do that, you can't just flick the switch and take them out of it when you need it. Like Green Bay. Everybody on this board knew we were going to have to score over 20 points to beat Green Bay. We got smoked.
Not shocking that we'd lose a road playoff game, even if we played excellent on offense.
Not shocking that we'd lose a road playoff game, even if we played excellent on offense.
Not to start the game. It got away in the second half, but our defense was stifling Rogers and hitting him a lot in the first quarter/half. The offense couldn't capitalize, Rogers adjusted, and off it went.
I think I'll wait as I always do to allow the OL to get their 60-70 or more of consistent snaps a game where synergy is built over a period of of several games before ATTEMPTING to assess where we are..I will NOT go by last year and I will NOT go by preseason.
There's a reason why Parcells et al have said it takes around 4 regular season games to "see what you have."
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
Agree. McAdoo did a great job last year and proved that he is a Head Coach, not just an "offense guy". He coaches the whole team and puts thm in position to win, and is not wedded to an ideology.
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
It was. My problem is, why is the team one dimensional? That's my whole issue.
The 2015 Giants offense could have hung with Green Bay, arguably with less players on offense than what we had last year. They scored over 30 points 7 times in 2015. They scored over 20 points in all but three games that season.
The 2016 Giants not only never scored 30 points, they only made it to 20 points in 7 games.
What happened that made them so one dimensional? That's what I can't wrap my head around.
You pair the 2015 offense with the 2016 defense and you have a championship caliber team.
I just can't understand why that didn't/couldn't happen.
There are legitimate concerns after two games that the OL is no better than last year. We have struggled to move the ball, and have no touchdowns. We are the second worst rushing team in the league since 2011. Only Jacksonville is worse.
Aside from Pugh, our guards and tackles don't seem to have quick enough feet. Flowers is still resorting to choke holds to compensate for his inability to handle speed rushers. Richburg also gets pushed back into pocket. We seem to have a hard time picking up simple stunts.
I assume there isn't much veteran OL help, but I wouldn't be surprised if we pick up someone after final cuts. Packaging some players we intend to cut for a veteran OL might also be a possibility.
In the interim, I think we should consider moving Pugh to LT, and Flowers to either LG or RG, with Gettis at the other spot. I'm inclined to cut Jerry, and probably Fluker, although I agree that won't happen. But at least one should not be on the final roster. Until we solve this problem, teams will just continue blitzing and stunting.
The backup QB situation is also concerning. Everybody knows we're finished if Eli is out for a significant period of time. But we hope that our backup QB could at least carry us for a few games. Right now, I have no confidence that Johnson or Smith could do so.
The defense of course was excellent. Munson has played well.
What they did have was the luxury of playing from behind and they HAD to try and score.
I don't know if it is being purposely glossed over to fit a narrative, but last year's team was better off when the offense minimized mistakes and played close to the vest. It wasn't ideal, but I believe if you tried to open up things and we took sacks or gave up turnovers, that we'd have had a worst record.
McAdoo coached to the team's strength, not too unlike what Denver did the year before.
Statistically speaking, the offense was terrible vs. 2015. In actual play, the differences weren't that stark. They just weren't called on to have to throw 50+ times or play from double-digit deficits for 3/4ths of a game.
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Do you truly believe the Browns are a better team than the Giants? That if they played ten times in 2017, the Browns hold serve or impose their will on the Giants?
last night actually had an impact on some of you? Seriously?
Every frickin year.
What they did have was the luxury of playing from behind and they HAD to try and score.
I don't know if it is being purposely glossed over to fit a narrative, but last year's team was better off when the offense minimized mistakes and played close to the vest. It wasn't ideal, but I believe if you tried to open up things and we took sacks or gave up turnovers, that we'd have had a worst record.
McAdoo coached to the team's strength, not too unlike what Denver did the year before.
Statistically speaking, the offense was terrible vs. 2015. In actual play, the differences weren't that stark. They just weren't called on to have to throw 50+ times or play from double-digit deficits for 3/4ths of a game.
I agree with your point about playing to the team's strength. I also believe that not doing that would have resulted in a worse record.
I still just can't understand the proverbial cliff the offense fell off in between 2015 and 2016.
I may be wrong, but I think that playing from behind in 2015 thing isn't true. I remember a stat from the 2015 season, and somebody could double check this... I believe the 2015 Giants lost something like 6 or 7 games where they had the lead with under 4 minutes to go.
Again, HCs in the NFL have openly acknowledged that they will instruct the QB to run the play even if it's certain to fail.
Read that last sentence over and over again until it sinks in.
I can't believe how worked up some of you get over this garbage.
If that stat I posted above is accurate, then that's not the case. The offense was scoring when it had to, not because the other team already had it in the bag.
You think McAdoo is no good because his offense "regressed" but the entire team got better on his watch?
So last year comes along. Everyone just expects the offense to go bananas even though there was only one legit WR on the team. No RB talent AT ALL. None. An average at best OL that lost its best player for half the season. NO professional TEs AT ALL. That offense. So what did the offense do? IT struggled after playing well through the first 3 games. It struggled to pile up big numbers. It struggled to run the ball over most of the year. But what did the offense do? It closed games. When the games were tight in the 2nd half, I can think of about 4-5 instances where that so called garbage offense delivered a TD drive or FG drives needed to win a game. It even ran the ball down the stretch of a few games which led to victories.
The Giants went 11-5 last year. Eli found ways to win games last year that he found ways to lose in 14-15. Call it what you will. McAdoo grew into his job last year. Eli learned how to win again last year. Let's see what they do in 2017. Again, people need to fucking forget about 2014 and 2015. Those seasons were fucking disgusting. Those offenses were overrated and misleading. This team is different. New HC. New players. Let's see if this offense grows in 2017 before you condemn it. It's not growing out of the ashes of 2015. IT's building from a different place.
I'm hopeful that the offense can get it together and do their part to help the defense continue to win games.
I'm still not adjusted to the "new look" Giants I guess.
The team was one way for over a decade, and now it's like the polar opposite of that. I guess I'm still trying to wrap my head around the new philosophy.
So last year comes along. Everyone just expects the offense to go bananas even though there was only one legit WR on the team. No RB talent AT ALL. None. An average at best OL that lost its best player for half the season. NO professional TEs AT ALL. That offense. So what did the offense do? IT struggled after playing well through the first 3 games. It struggled to pile up big numbers. It struggled to run the ball over most of the year. But what did the offense do? It closed games. When the games were tight in the 2nd half, I can think of about 4-5 instances where that so called garbage offense delivered a TD drive or FG drives needed to win a game. It even ran the ball down the stretch of a few games which led to victories.
The Giants went 11-5 last year. Eli found ways to win games last year that he found ways to lose in 14-15. Call it what you will. McAdoo grew into his job last year. Eli learned how to win again last year. Let's see what they do in 2017. Again, people need to fucking forget about 2014 and 2015. Those seasons were fucking disgusting. Those offenses were overrated and misleading. This team is different. New HC. New players. Let's see if this offense grows in 2017 before you condemn it. It's not growing out of the ashes of 2015. IT's building from a different place.
I actually agree with you, and that's kind of what I just wrote. I just need to get used to it.
You think McAdoo is no good because his offense "regressed" but the entire team got better on his watch?
That's exactly what he's thinking. And it's ridiculous.
I pray Mcadoo is remembered as another Brian Billick. Please make it so.
The personnel wasn't that good in 14-15. IT wasn't that good last year. We were all a bit fooled. I know I was. But looking back, the offense struggling at times last year makes a ton of sense. It was basically quick strikes to Beckham and Shepard and pray for rain.
You're acting like the 14-15 offenses carried the Giants to actual victory. No, not all their production came in garbage time but they scored points in a losing effort time and time again. They weren't very good. Period. That offense was the epitome of average and with little staying power. It was 1980s AFC style. IT sucked.
You're acting like the 14-15 offenses carried the Giants to actual victory. No, not all their production came in garbage time but they scored points in a losing effort time and time again. They weren't very good. Period. That offense was the epitome of average and with little staying power. It was 1980s AFC style. IT sucked.
They took the lead on the 13-0 Carolina Panthers (6th best defense in the NFL with Josh Norman) with under 2 minutes to play, after being down 21 points in the 4th quarter, who nearly had an undefeated regular season and made it to the Superbowl. Until the defense folded like a cheap suit and allowed Cam and company to effortlessly move into field goal range for the game winner as time expired.
Now we see how this team responds to more pressure and tougher games. The talent has been upgraded. The HC has a year under his belt. Talk to me in January. Until then I will cautiously hope (expect) this team to mature and progress off of LAST season. Not 2014. Not 2015. Not 2007. New team. New players. No era. What happened in 2015 means next to nothing in my view. I know McAdoo can call an offense. I saw him do it for two years. That's how he got the HC job. Now win big games in January. I couldn't care less about stats.
And again, same scenario, the defense allowed Tom Brady to march down the field and kick the game winner as time expired.
And that game was an excellent example of one they had to score just to get back to the tie. In New Orleans, they had to keep scoring because the D was so poor and yet when they had a chance to make a winning drive, they went three and out, punted and set them up for a winning FG.
Against the Jets, they failed to pick up a 3rd and 1 and then missed a FG that would've won the game. And that doesn't even discuss the games against the Cowboys and Falcons to open up the year where the inability to run clock or make a game-clinching play ended up seeing the D let up game-losing drives.
When the offense had the chance to win games, it failed more often than it succeeded, which is actually the opposite of what happened last year
Doesn't matter anymore. That 2015 team also had a fresher JEnnings and healthy Vereen.
I just think it's a mistake to base this offense on those 14-15 teams. Apples and oranges. Base 2016 on nothing. BAse it on a team that was lost in a 4 year wilderness of tough losses. Base it on a new HC and new team. Fresh start. How does 2016 look if you were starting from scratch? Pretty damn good in my eyes. 11 wins is 11 wins.
Talk to me in December/January.
I just need to wrap my head around this new philosophy and learn to enjoy it.
It's a different team now.
Don't. Turn. The. Ball. Over. I think McAdoo has been trying to build an identity on offense but it can take time. They weren't smart enough last year. Eli threw some picks or passes last year that are unacceptable, especially with this team. I would think its been hard for Eli to sort of change his way of attacking. He's always been a gunslinger. Who knows. But If I had to bet I would think they want a smarter offense in 2017.
I find it hilarious that people are giving him so much credit for getting us to 11-5. Shouldn't Spags and the defensive players be getting the lion's share of the credit?
McAdoo's biggest plus is he's realized to get the f#ck out of the way and not screw it up for the defense. I apologize if I'm not sold on anything he's personally doing yet. And I freely admit I hate the WCO, never wanted him here and do not think his style fits the NY climate in particular.
I find it hilarious that people are giving him so much credit for getting us to 11-5. Shouldn't Spags and the defensive players be getting the lion's share of the credit?
McAdoo's biggest plus is he's realized to get the f#ck out of the way and not screw it up for the defense. I apologize if I'm not sold on anything he's personally doing yet. And I freely admit I hate the WCO, never wanted him here and do not think his style fits the NY climate in particular.
they run the west coast offense in green bay, how does it not fit the new york climate? patriots are in shotgun and passing more times than not and are in foxboro...
it is a passing league...
I have to look at the OL coach too. 2 years ago you had 2 young, promising guys in Richburg and Flowers, and here we are 2 yrs later and we haven't seen improvement in either, and you could argue there is significant regression. That first sack last night was a very simple pickup that Jerry/Hart couldn't handle. That scares me.
I have to look at the OL coach too. 2 years ago you had 2 young, promising guys in Richburg and Flowers, and here we are 2 yrs later and we haven't seen improvement in either, and you could argue there is significant regression. That first sack last night was a very simple pickup that Jerry/Hart couldn't handle. That scares me.
what good ol were on the market that the giants could afford?
would i like to see the offense go out and dominate in preseason? absolutely but until they are start game planning i dont think you will see it...
i think in regular seasom you will see chipping and things like that to help
Ever hear of Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick?
I'm talking about ideal systems for the climate you play in. A WCO for a windy, rainy, cold, outdoor football team is not ideal. I'm not sure why that's such a controversial statement.
And it's certainly not ideal for an immobile QB who struggles with accuracy.
What exactly has he done to prove he is a good offensive mind? We blindly (and quickly) promoted him through the ranks like an owner handing over the company to his son. Based on no real experience.
So - IMO - not only are we running a bad scheme for our location/QB, we are running a crappy version of that scheme.
Again, just my opinion, and I'm not surprised it's an unpopular one. I will stop, as I don't care to drag McAdoo's name through the mud anymore than I have. Just frustrated with his 3 years here.
They are more likely to face adverse conditions on the road when they play in rainy Florida or the Midwest teams than they are to face horrible weather in NY.
Heck, the last several seasons they have games in December that are in the high 50's.
the only year he was better is 2011, so how again does it not fit the qb?
the facts dont line up with your opinion..
Fact eli is better im this offense and more accurate than in gillbrides offense..
if anything for a passing league the wco is perfect for new jersey because it is not long patterns, it is quick hitters and that is why it works...
the giants gave up the least amount of sacks because of the west coast offense. if not eli would be murdered
It can be argued that the offense was stagnant (for the year he's been head coach), but it can also be argued that as the HC, he stuck to the goal of putting the team in the best position to win. It isn't just happenstance that we closed out games last year, in part by minimizing mistakes on offense and controlling field position.
It's sort of like the OL discussion - People go apeshit over the unit being below average, but every team either has a subpar unit or they end up having a bunch of mediocre units. It's a reality today. But we don't focus on the DB's being one of the best in the league. We don't focus on continued excellent DE play - we say things like the GM should be fired for not improving the OL, as if that point alone is the only thing that matters.
I don't think we've seen McAdoo's offense yet. Last year he lost his FB and had little at WR outside of Beckham and no TE presence to stretch the field.
But hey, after preseason game #2, I guess many of you already know what the offense will look like.
Well calibrated post, i.e. no heavy breathing or doom & gloom. Many posters seem to believe that what's obvious to them is overlooked and neglected by a staff of a dozen or more professional coaches. Crazy!
That'd hardly four games. That's plenty enough time to see "what you have" considering we've brought back virtually every starter and added a starting WR and a blocking TE.
That's on McAdoo. He needs to figure it out.