They figured out this offense
Bluesbreaker : 11:05 pm : link : reply
last year and nothing has changed can't run can't throw down field . The O-line is a disaster !!!
Webb is going to get plenty of playing time against the Patriots. Right now, McAdoo is trying to figure out if either of these other two are worth keeping.
No TD's in two games now and couldn't move the ball at all against arguably the worst team in football.
They're not going to be the worst team in football this year. They have some good players. They're not going to be a playoff team either, but there are a few guys who can play on that team now.
Who have excelled by their failure? Johnson is awful, Smith an idiot. If Eli goes down, neither of these clowns will do anything. # 5 should get lots of playing time, he's got the physical attributes and a brain.
First, its preseason and teams like Cleveland need these wins, winning means more...to build confidence. Let's not over react......I just hope no major injuries
I understand better then most that the OL is a major weakness of the Giants but I feel the tackles are playing better and the OL is better then last year....not saying much....I feel the Jerry/Richburg side is the more pressing issue.. they create nothing in the running game....and the pocket colapses way too quickly on passing plays. I have no idea if Fluker will be better...but I suspect that could be the change coming.
Gallman needs time to learn to pass protect before he can be trusted.
Expect TE decisions will be tough. fB did not help themselves today.
They can win with it. The pass blocking is better than the run blocking, which is exactly what we need it to do. Just need to improve on the run blocking a bit and we'll be fine.
Remember, this isn't 2007 - OL play around the league is down considerably, and top OL resources command insane amounts of money. The team is built to be heavy everywhere else, so they'll just have to work with what they've got.
The additions of Engram and Marshall (crossing fingers that he's healthy) will go a long way towards helping out the O.
I don't know what was more painful, our backup QB's or listening to
Really not care as long as he gets a look at whatever players and situations he is interested in? Different coaches have different approaches. But whatever his approach Giant offense looks terrible.
I can't see how t Ohey can go into the season with this OL...it really sucks.
.
They will though, and hope for the best.
The O Line can't run block, first or second team, either one.
Geno looked okay, until...Josh Johnson, late in the game to
actually try and win, LOL.
Only 2 more games left...ugly football for my eyes.
..but does the HC get any credit for winning games or is all about the stats?
Also, is it fair to attribute much of the offensive short comings to lack of talent? 3-4 guys that started on offense last year are either out of the NFL or playing less prominent roles in 2017. And everyone seems convinced the OL is the source of all that is wrong in this world, so isn't that a legit excuse for 19 ppg?
It's also August fricking 21st and mcadoo is 11-5 in his career. Wtf.
Pardon my football ignorance, but does anyone think Giants need to cut
Either Johnson or Smith, and give # 5 more reps? There's not a lot to chose from between Johnson or Smith, although I would choose To keep Smith, but if #5 has a future he needs reps.
Keep the faith though I remember Giants winning 6 in preseason(yes that long ago) and having disastrous regular season.
Carry on. Vent away. If it helps some of you cope or prepare so be it. I think it's too early and preseason is a joke. I know it's a joke. But do what you gotta do. I'm out.
I'm not going to destroy McAdoo or panic, but they really should
have brought in a real OC, with some type of background in a similar offense, and not just promoted Sullivan as part of their weird keep-away (that wasn't even necessary) from Coughlin/Mara loyalty to help him out as a young promising HC, even if not in calling plays.
The whole offensive scheme is fucked. It seems designed to highlight its own weaknesses.
The line isn't physically competitive and gets pushed around in man up blocking. AS a result we consistently run for 1 or fewer yards. We then follow those plays up with a short pass to try and get yards back but the defense is sitting on the los so they respond quickly and there is very little open space or opportunity for yac. Now we are in and-long situations and have to hold against a defense with its ears pinned back long enough for our receivers to come open down the field. Rinse, repeat.
We need to be testing defenses before they settle in and trying to make them cover as much of the field as possible. Doing so would in turn offer more opportunities for double teams and combo blocks to aid our under powered but reasonably athletic o-line create space in the running game.
It's been over a fucking year and Mac appears to still be banging his head against the same fucking wall. He needs to recognize that what he is asking isn't going to get done and adjust to put his players in more reasonable positions.
In the face of that I don't see how bringing in one OL this late is going to fix our offensive problems.
I don't really understand why McAdoo is taking the heat here.
It's pretty clear that the offensive line can't fucking run block and the pass blocking hasn't been anything to write home about either.
Maybe I don't understand football as much as I think I do - but how exactly do you run a successful offense when that's the case? I'm pretty sure you can't trick an NFL defense for 4 quarters.
You need to be able to fucking block and right now, this team can't do it.
..but does the HC get any credit for winning games or is all about the stats?
Also, is it fair to attribute much of the offensive short comings to lack of talent? 3-4 guys that started on offense last year are either out of the NFL or playing less prominent roles in 2017. And everyone seems convinced the OL is the source of all that is wrong in this world, so isn't that a legit excuse for 19 ppg?
It's also August fricking 21st and mcadoo is 11-5 in his career. Wtf.
You're a solid contributor here but I am completely on the other side of the spectrum here with regards to this offense. More times than not, what you see in August spills over into the regular season with the NYG O. I remember the O struggling so bad the only positive play was a Cruz bomb in Pittsburgh for a TD. That year the O was so bad it got Gilbride "retired". Last year we saw the OL getting oblitterated. And it did all year. So far, it's more of the same. Positive practice reports are few and far between and game action vs other teams' starting D's have been ugly. I'd say the concern is well warranted.
Completely agree.. I don't care what most will say here, Mcadoo is not the guy. This preseason looks just like last years, and he promised more? He just looks lost calling the plays. This offense has been bad since he took over and you can't deny that.. link - ( New Window )
a few days ago and it's worth repeating:
Reese is covering up his disdain for drafting OL by getting more 'weapons'.
During his tenure of 12 years, how many OL has he drafted in the first 3 rounds(approx 36 possibilities) that were NOT 'reaches'?
Flowers, no;Pugh;and not many other OL at all. He even bottom fed by hunting for 'projects in rounds 4-7 hoping to strike gold.
Eli has 'David Carr Syndrome'(feeling D pressure even when it is not there) and has since the 2012 OL collapse.
Problem wasn't Flaherty, and it is not Solari.
a few days ago and it's worth repeating:
Reese is covering up his disdain for drafting OL by getting more 'weapons'.
During his tenure of 12 years, how many OL has he drafted in the first 3 rounds(approx 36 possibilities) that were NOT 'reaches'?
Flowers, no;Pugh;and not many other OL at all. He even bottom fed by hunting for 'projects in rounds 4-7 hoping to strike gold.
Eli has 'David Carr Syndrome'(feeling D pressure even when it is not there) and has since the 2012 OL collapse.
Problem wasn't Flaherty, and it is not Solari.
His "disdain for drafting OL" ?
Where the fuck do people come up with this shit?
Where did Justin Pugh, Weston Richburg, Ereck Flowers, and Bobby Hart come from?
Who the fuck cares what their record was last year? They had a boat load of picks this year and have added some solid players to their roster. They have some good players there. They aren't going 1-15 again this year.
You don't have to watch football that long to realize that team records can fluctuate wildly from year to year.
Look at the Carolina Panthers if you don't believe me.
Physically intimidated by the Cleveland Brown defense
No one is denying the Browns are going to be better this year, I actaully agree with you on that one. The problem im having is what complete mess this offense was today!
No one is denying the Browns are going to be better this year, I actaully agree with you on that one. The problem im having is what complete mess this offense was today!
I have my concerns about the offensive line - they need to be better. Some of the comments are getting ridiculous, though.
No one is denying the Browns are going to be better this year, I actaully agree with you on that one. The problem im having is what complete mess this offense was today!
I have my concerns about the offensive line - they need to be better. Some of the comments are getting ridiculous, though.
And that's the same line that's been repeated since 2012.
No one is denying the Browns are going to be better this year, I actaully agree with you on that one. The problem im having is what complete mess this offense was today!
I have my concerns about the offensive line - they need to be better. Some of the comments are getting ridiculous, though.
And that's the same line that's been repeated since 2012.
Yeah, it has nothing to do with absurd comments like "McAdoo isn't the guy for the job" - but don't let that stop you from continuing to make them.
I have no idea how you can say this. Mac was 11-5 in his first year of coaching and if not for two dropped TD passes in the first half, the Giants might very well have advanced deep into the playoffs last year. Should he retain the play calling? Don't know. But not the guy? On the basis of what?
and I really hope I am, but I just don't see it. How come this offense hasn't improved since he took over? How come every preseason looks the same? Can you imagine if this team had average weapons on offense with no real QB like the Browns, under Mcadoo? yikes..
ignored the OL. You can't say that when 3 years in a row you spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on an OL and all 3 are starting. You can't say that when you go out and sign veterans. But, the picks have fallen short of expectations thus far and the veterans have been awful.
Now, a guy like Jerry was not drafted to start. He was thrust into a starting role due to injuries. But, for 2 subsequent seasons he is still penciled in as a starter. That is where I have a problem. We had a horrific OL last year. As of right now, there is a very good chance it is exactly the same to open the season. Sure, their depth is better. But, so fucking what? They have the same shitty 5 man group that can't open a single hole in the running game and is mediocre at pass blocking with no shot against speed. The only guy who looks to have improved is Hart...but by how much?
So, yes Reese did address the OL. But, his moves have yielded a line potentially worse than a few years ago.
On one side, I'm very concerned about the lack of anything special on offense, but the running game in particular. On the other hand, I recognize this is preseason and they aren't doing very much outside of the basics. I don't think the entire season is going to be 4-5 yard dumpoff passes. But, I am beginning to worry that they aren't capable of doing anything special.
Their D is talented enough to make them a competitive team. But, is it good enough to carry them to double digit wins? Even the best D needs some support from an offense.
I think anything short of at least 1 playoff win and Reese should be done here. I thought Reese should have been gone before or with Coughling, so my rope for him is very short.
I am not a big McAdoo fan. I can blame him for making a bigger deal pit of Beckham publicly over stupid shit. He could have put out the flames around Beckham when asked if he was a distraction but instead added fuel to the fire. I didn't like him deflecting blame when asked about the OL. I didn't like the fact that he criticized Eli publicly. I absolutely hated the fact that we ran 11 personnel 90+% of the time last year.
With all of that said, I like how he manages games. He won 11 games his rookie year. You cannot blame him for the players on the OL.
Also, everybody needs to remember that you do not gameplan for your opponent in the preseason. At least it isn't as in depth as the regular season. You go into the preseason trying to see what you havr in your team. Most of the time that means working on your weaknesses such as trying to establish your run game. McAdoo made mention to working on working on the screen game last week. It isn't always about running plays that you are comfortable with.
Now, while that is nice, I think he needs to do something to get this offense going for confidence as well as something to build off of. I am not getting bent out shape over this game even though I wanted to throw up watching this offensive line attempt to block. I don't want tk hear McAdoo deflect the blame onto Eli, the WRs, Perkins, or the TEs. It would be nice if he held them accountable.
The thing that bothers me the most is that we can have guys. who were undrafted FAs like O'Hara and Suebert or a fifth round pick like Diehl be part of an OL with a second round pick in Snee and a high priced FA in McKenzie (yes, O'Hara was a FA signing too) and have them block for a downfield passing attack that requires like 4 seconds of protection. However, we have 2 first round picks and a second round pick and we cannot even consistently block for 2 seconds in this quick release offense. In theory, McAdoo makes sense when he wants to keep Pugh at guard because a guy coming around the edge shouldn't be able tl get to the QB on time. Well, our OL is defying physics. And this isn't all on the tackles. Jerry and Richburg didn't play well. There is just no consistency with this OL whether it is in the run game or pass game unless that consistency is that you know pressure will come from some spot nearly every play.
RE: As for the overall play, I'm of mixed feelings.
On one side, I'm very concerned about the lack of anything special on offense, but the running game in particular. On the other hand, I recognize this is preseason and they aren't doing very much outside of the basics. I don't think the entire season is going to be 4-5 yard dumpoff passes. But, I am beginning to worry that they aren't capable of doing anything special.
Their D is talented enough to make them a competitive team. But, is it good enough to carry them to double digit wins? Even the best D needs some support from an offense.
I mean... they just did last year.
I'm skeptical of doing it again only because the schedule is tough and it's hard to lean so heavily on a defense with such little support. I don't think this team can win another SB unless the offense gets markedly better.
I'm absolutely concerned about the line play right now but we do need to at least play a few regular season games before we know what this team really is.
I am not a big McAdoo fan. I can blame him for making a bigger deal pit of Beckham publicly over stupid shit. He could have put out the flames around Beckham when asked if he was a distraction but instead added fuel to the fire. I didn't like him deflecting blame when asked about the OL. I didn't like the fact that he criticized Eli publicly. I absolutely hated the fact that we ran 11 personnel 90+% of the time last year.
With all of that said, I like how he manages games. He won 11 games his rookie year. You cannot blame him for the players on the OL.
Also, everybody needs to remember that you do not gameplan for your opponent in the preseason. At least it isn't as in depth as the regular season. You go into the preseason trying to see what you havr in your team. Most of the time that means working on your weaknesses such as trying to establish your run game. McAdoo made mention to working on working on the screen game last week. It isn't always about running plays that you are comfortable with.
Now, while that is nice, I think he needs to do something to get this offense going for confidence as well as something to build off of. I am not getting bent out shape over this game even though I wanted to throw up watching this offensive line attempt to block. I don't want tk hear McAdoo deflect the blame onto Eli, the WRs, Perkins, or the TEs. It would be nice if he held them accountable.
The thing that bothers me the most is that we can have guys. who were undrafted FAs like O'Hara and Suebert or a fifth round pick like Diehl be part of an OL with a second round pick in Snee and a high priced FA in McKenzie (yes, O'Hara was a FA signing too) and have them block for a downfield passing attack that requires like 4 seconds of protection. However, we have 2 first round picks and a second round pick and we cannot even consistently block for 2 seconds in this quick release offense. In theory, McAdoo makes sense when he wants to keep Pugh at guard because a guy coming around the edge shouldn't be able tl get to the QB on time. Well, our OL is defying physics. And this isn't all on the tackles. Jerry and Richburg didn't play well. There is just no consistency with this OL whether it is in the run game or pass game unless that consistency is that you know pressure will come from some spot nearly every play.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. What I hate is this offense looked potent with McAdoo as OC. He was brought in specifically to counter a terrible OL that couldn't block and it worked. Then, he becomes HC and the offense takes a huge step backward and it doesn't look to be improving.
Some of that is on the GM for the personnel. But some is on him as well. I thought did a terrible job calling plays as the HC. It seems Sullivan may be doing that this year, but the results don't appear to be much better.
impressed with McAdoo. I keep waiting for him to wow me. I don't like the WCO but was trying to be open to it. It's no surprise we don't score TDs: we don't attack the end zone.
He was never an OC before we hired him and he was never a HC before we hired him. At any level. At least to this fan, I've got to wonder if he knows what he's doing. I just don't see anything resembling an effective offense.
On a side note, Shepard and Richburg continue to be overrated players. Shepard is OK but his inability to break a tackle or make anyone miss is almost ridiculous at this point. 2 skills kind of important in the slot. He put up some numbers - but Dwayne Harris actually had a higher YPC in the slot the year before and paced the same TDs. We need these 2nd round picks (Richburg + Shepard) to be assets on the field.
the giants just got savaged by the Cleveland Browns.
The Cleveland D beat the crap out of them all night long.
You left out the most important part....
...IN A PRESEASON GAME.
You guys remember these don't count, right? And that half the game is basically played by guys who might be stocking shelves before too long, and that when the starters are playing they actually remember that it is, uh, a PRESEASON GAME?
It's great the Giants sucked! And it's OK the first string offense had their asses handed to them for the entire first half, because the 2nd half was played by guys we knew were going to suck anyway!
have an easier schedule last year. With players like Odell, Eli, Shepard, Cruz, and the Giants defense, a lot of coaches would have had the same success. Let see what he does this year.
i've stated that already, I even predicted over 40 yards rushing.
looking at the highlights, that first sack looked like a quick hitter to Vereen, but when the linebackers blitz, I wonder if he should have picked it up instead. The Line looks like it came late, but I am not sure if it was on Richburg or a guard.
I couldn't agree with you more. I've been saying that for two years now. Defenses are packed in so tight against this offense there is nowhere to go. And until McAdoo decides to open things up to loosen up the defenses it's going to stay that way.
Even when the Giants lineup three wide defenses sit on those short passing lanes because for the most part that's all they throw anymore. As result when they do try and run the second line e of defense has less ground to cover when supporting against the run.
I don't like this offense. Never have. The fans loved to kill Gilbride when he was here but I'll take his offensive philosophy over McAdoo's any day.
I couldn't agree with you more. I've been saying that for two years now. Defenses are packed in so tight against this offense there is nowhere to go. And until McAdoo decides to open things up to loosen up the defenses it's going to stay that way.
Even when the Giants lineup three wide defenses sit on those short passing lanes because for the most part that's all they throw anymore. As result when they do try and run the second line e of defense has less ground to cover when supporting against the run.
I don't like this offense. Never have. The fans loved to kill Gilbride when he was here but I'll take his offensive philosophy over McAdoo's any day.
What if the line is so horrible bad that opening things up gets Eli sacked 1.5 seconds after the play starts every down?
offense needed only to be a little better than subpar to outscore opposing offenses against our vaunted defense.
This is 5-11 offense, thank god we have a 13-3 defense.
I guess you can laud McAdoo's game management even though he was terribly conservative with the offensive game calling and relied heavily on the defense to make that game saving stop. But I certainly don't see a boy genius when it comes to play calling. We know it's not just deliberately being vanilla during preseason because we saw it last year too. We can blame the lack of talent on the OL, but we can't blame lack of TE/FB this year. So let's see what he can do.
Coaching is everything. Look at the Giants offesnsive line in 2007 Suebert undrafted. Diehl a fifth round pick. Mackenzie signed as a free agent. O'Hara the Browns thought so much or so little of him and let him sign with the Giants. Of course then there was Snee who I believe was a number two. 2011 there was Baas at center and Beaty protecting Eli's blind side. Not exactly a who's who of offensive linemen.
They now have two number ones and a two to go along with and undrafted player in Hart and Jerry who is a mountain of a man. How can all these guys individually be that bad. As for Eli getting killed he's getting killed already. On the first series he got drilled. Even when he did I have time they were breathing down his neck.
Again, collectively how bad can this offensive line really be? What does McAdoo have to lose. Open up the offense and make these defense defend against the speed you possess. How often do you see them take a shot down the field with arguably one of the fastest receivers in the league. For that mattter they can all run. Even Perkins. Looks st his highlight tapes from UCLA.. Spags has his shit together while the offense shits the bed.
kickoff after suffering through that 1 hour pregame show (or 50 minutes of it.)
Read here how horrific the offense was - obviously. Read how bad Geno and Johnson played, as expected.
Then I read they had the ball on the 3 and 9 yard lines and an int by Geno and a fumble by Gallman killed the drives. Read that Shepard was holding the ball like a loaf of bread and was stripped.... So two turnovers inside the 10 yardline...
Eli was 10 of 14 for 80 yds in about 1/3 of the game? That really isn't that bad after 2 three and outs on the 1st two possessions.
Sloppy pre-season play and losing Beckham early are not conducive to scoring.
But the fact is, the offense has completely fallen off a cliff since McAdoo, an offensive guy, has taken over as HC. We have a championship caliber defense right now, and the offense was a hindrance last year, and looks like it will be again this year.
We can't run the ball. We can't pass protect. Doesn't matter what we have at skill positions if we can't do that.
We got manhandled by the Cleveland Browns last night. The Cleveland Browns offense was more effective than ours, and they were going against our defense.
People scratch their heads and wonder "gee, McAdoo was such a great coordinator, yet now he's still calling the plays and we can't do anything, what happened?" Even though it makes people react like vampires getting doused with holy water, the answer is simple. That was mainly Coughlin's offense he was running! How else can you explain the offense going completely stagnant after McAdoo took over Head Coach? The players were all the same when Coughlin was head coach, how did we get so much more out of them? We went from 6th in the NFL in scoring to 26th after the switch.
He managed the game well, I'll give him that. That's great. But he's an offensive guy, and I want to see some damn offense. We are completely WASTING the end of Eli's career. This is unacceptable.
But the fact is, the offense has completely fallen off a cliff since McAdoo, an offensive guy, has taken over as HC. We have a championship caliber defense right now, and the offense was a hindrance last year, and looks like it will be again this year.
We can't run the ball. We can't pass protect. Doesn't matter what we have at skill positions if we can't do that.
We got manhandled by the Cleveland Browns last night. The Cleveland Browns offense was more effective than ours, and they were going against our defense.
People scratch their heads and wonder "gee, McAdoo was such a great coordinator, yet now he's still calling the plays and we can't do anything, what happened?" Even though it makes people react like vampires getting doused with holy water, the answer is simple. That was mainly Coughlin's offense he was running! How else can you explain the offense going completely stagnant after McAdoo took over Head Coach? The players were all the same when Coughlin was head coach, how did we get so much more out of them? We went from 6th in the NFL in scoring to 26th after the switch.
He managed the game well, I'll give him that. That's great. But he's an offensive guy, and I want to see some damn offense. We are completely WASTING the end of Eli's career. This is unacceptable.
I think that vampires and holy water thing is a myth.
We got manhandled by the Cleveland Browns last night. The Cleveland Browns offense was more effective than ours, and they were going against our defense.
We are completely WASTING the end of Eli's career. This is unacceptable.
If scoring 7 points is being manhandled, then I'll need a definition of good defense.
I am also tired of hearing about wasting Eli's career. Eli has more than a little to do with the Giants offense.
I would like to blame the CBA for lack of practice opportunities when they are trying to put together a cohesive line. Stupid mentality, limiting practice time.
they use to try out different things against live competition because they really cant do that durong practice...
what works they keep, what doesnt they scrap, also remember there is no gameplanning for an opponent, it is mostly just running what they want to run...
also there are no adjustments being made or anything like that, they stick to what they wanted to run in that particular game and run iy no mattet what...
The interior gets no push at all. The RB his his own lineman at the line of scrimmage. Flowers and Hart are not the problem here. Banks was all over this on the halftime show last night. How's that switch from Flaherty to Solari working out? You would have thought by this board that Flaherty was the anti-Christ and never could coach a Title winning team after winning those 2 rings.
I actually like McAdoo as HC though. He showed me a lot last year., has they nasty Parcells style streak, not afraid to call people out.
McAdoo not the answer after losing a couple of preseason games? After winning 11 in year one? That's a stretch.
We were sold on McAdoo being Head Coach based on his offensive prowess. That's why we ALL (myself included) wanted him to take over as head coach. Based on what he had supposedly done for our offense in 2014 and 2015.
The offense has been completely stagnant since he took over. That can't be denied.
but I'm pissed, because it feels like this season is going to be in the shitter before it even gets going, because of the offensive line. And everybody could see it coming a mile away.
By any logical point of view you would appear to be way off in your assessment of McAdoo. That's not to say he's the perfect coach or that he finds long term success here but writing him off based on preseason results? You know better than that.
He coached a team with very little offensive talent last season to an 11-5 record and a playoff game that could have had a much different result if players (receivers) made plays.
Come on.
RE: Pre season is basically live practice for coaches
they use to try out different things against live competition because they really cant do that durong practice...
what works they keep, what doesnt they scrap, also remember there is no gameplanning for an opponent, it is mostly just running what they want to run...
also there are no adjustments being made or anything like that, they stick to what they wanted to run in that particular game and run iy no mattet what...
and their objectives are surely different from the regular season. For example, wouldn't it make sense for them to run poor-performing plays repeatedly?
For all we know the coaches may be somewhat pleased at this point.
BTW, I'm not much of a football analyst but Flowers looked OK last night.
I like you as a poster, but you seem like you have been waiting for the opportunity to rip McAdoo (it's hard to do that at 11-5), but the second preseason game in you pounce. The offense has been bad. Let's see how it plays out. I do miss the Coughlin/Gilbride push the ball down the field philosophy, but let's see what happens.
took over last year and it is clear he intentionally put the offense into a shell last year realizing the defense was controlling games.
It can be argued that the offense was stagnant (for the year he's been head coach), but it can also be argued that as the HC, he stuck to the goal of putting the team in the best position to win. It isn't just happenstance that we closed out games last year, in part by minimizing mistakes on offense and controlling field position.
It's sort of like the OL discussion - People go apeshit over the unit being below average, but every team either has a subpar unit or they end up having a bunch of mediocre units. It's a reality today. But we don't focus on the DB's being one of the best in the league. We don't focus on continued excellent DE play - we say things like the GM should be fired for not improving the OL, as if that point alone is the only thing that matters.
I don't think we've seen McAdoo's offense yet. Last year he lost his FB and had little at WR outside of Beckham and no TE presence to stretch the field.
But hey, after preseason game #2, I guess many of you already know what the offense will look like.
I like you as a poster, but you seem like you have been waiting for the opportunity to rip McAdoo (it's hard to do that at 11-5), but the second preseason game in you pounce. The offense has been bad. Let's see how it plays out. I do miss the Coughlin/Gilbride push the ball down the field philosophy, but let's see what happens.
Hey man, if anything, I've been consistent. I was ripping him last year during the season, because even as we were racking up wins, you could just see the writing on the wall with offense.
Tell me you didn't know we were in trouble heading to Green Bay, not being able to break the 20 point barrier for 5 straight games heading in. It was just a sense of when, not if, it was going to fall apart on offense.
I like you as a poster, but you seem like you have been waiting for the opportunity to rip McAdoo (it's hard to do that at 11-5), but the second preseason game in you pounce. The offense has been bad. Let's see how it plays out. I do miss the Coughlin/Gilbride push the ball down the field philosophy, but let's see what happens.
Hey man, if anything, I've been consistent. I was ripping him last year during the season, because even as we were racking up wins, you could just see the writing on the wall with offense.
Tell me you didn't know we were in trouble heading to Green Bay, not being able to break the 20 point barrier for 5 straight games heading in. It was just a sense of when, not if, it was going to fall apart on offense.
took over last year and it is clear he intentionally put the offense into a shell last year realizing the defense was controlling games.
It can be argued that the offense was stagnant (for the year he's been head coach), but it can also be argued that as the HC, he stuck to the goal of putting the team in the best position to win. It isn't just happenstance that we closed out games last year, in part by minimizing mistakes on offense and controlling field position.
It's sort of like the OL discussion - People go apeshit over the unit being below average, but every team either has a subpar unit or they end up having a bunch of mediocre units. It's a reality today. But we don't focus on the DB's being one of the best in the league. We don't focus on continued excellent DE play - we say things like the GM should be fired for not improving the OL, as if that point alone is the only thing that matters.
I don't think we've seen McAdoo's offense yet. Last year he lost his FB and had little at WR outside of Beckham and no TE presence to stretch the field.
But hey, after preseason game #2, I guess many of you already know what the offense will look like.
My problem with intentionally putting the offense in a shell is that when you do that, you can't just flick the switch and take them out of it when you need it. Like Green Bay. Everybody on this board knew we were going to have to score over 20 points to beat Green Bay. We got smoked.
Not shocking that we'd lose a road playoff game, even if we played excellent on offense.
Not to start the game. It got away in the second half, but our defense was stifling Rogers and hitting him a lot in the first quarter/half. The offense couldn't capitalize, Rogers adjusted, and off it went.
I'll repeat for the final time a re-post from 2 other threads:
I think I'll wait as I always do to allow the OL to get their 60-70 or more of consistent snaps a game where synergy is built over a period of of several games before ATTEMPTING to assess where we are..I will NOT go by last year and I will NOT go by preseason.
There's a reason why Parcells et al have said it takes around 4 regular season games to "see what you have."
the defense got some stops. It also let up a Hail Mary that absolutely crushed the team. That's far more inexcuseable than expecting the offense to throw up 30 points.
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
the defense got some stops. It also let up a Hail Mary that absolutely crushed the team. That's far more inexcuseable than expecting the offense to throw up 30 points.
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
Agree. McAdoo did a great job last year and proved that he is a Head Coach, not just an "offense guy". He coaches the whole team and puts thm in position to win, and is not wedded to an ideology.
the defense got some stops. It also let up a Hail Mary that absolutely crushed the team. That's far more inexcuseable than expecting the offense to throw up 30 points.
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
It was. My problem is, why is the team one dimensional? That's my whole issue.
The 2015 Giants offense could have hung with Green Bay, arguably with less players on offense than what we had last year. They scored over 30 points 7 times in 2015. They scored over 20 points in all but three games that season.
The 2016 Giants not only never scored 30 points, they only made it to 20 points in 7 games.
What happened that made them so one dimensional? That's what I can't wrap my head around.
was an extremely disappointing and desultory performance that is not at all completely excused by the fact that this is preseason.
There are legitimate concerns after two games that the OL is no better than last year. We have struggled to move the ball, and have no touchdowns. We are the second worst rushing team in the league since 2011. Only Jacksonville is worse.
Aside from Pugh, our guards and tackles don't seem to have quick enough feet. Flowers is still resorting to choke holds to compensate for his inability to handle speed rushers. Richburg also gets pushed back into pocket. We seem to have a hard time picking up simple stunts.
I assume there isn't much veteran OL help, but I wouldn't be surprised if we pick up someone after final cuts. Packaging some players we intend to cut for a veteran OL might also be a possibility.
In the interim, I think we should consider moving Pugh to LT, and Flowers to either LG or RG, with Gettis at the other spot. I'm inclined to cut Jerry, and probably Fluker, although I agree that won't happen. But at least one should not be on the final roster. Until we solve this problem, teams will just continue blitzing and stunting.
The backup QB situation is also concerning. Everybody knows we're finished if Eli is out for a significant period of time. But we hope that our backup QB could at least carry us for a few games. Right now, I have no confidence that Johnson or Smith could do so.
The defense of course was excellent. Munson has played well.
wasn't dominant. They had a lot of problems running the ball, had little at TE and weren't good in short yardage conversions.
What they did have was the luxury of playing from behind and they HAD to try and score.
I don't know if it is being purposely glossed over to fit a narrative, but last year's team was better off when the offense minimized mistakes and played close to the vest. It wasn't ideal, but I believe if you tried to open up things and we took sacks or gave up turnovers, that we'd have had a worst record.
McAdoo coached to the team's strength, not too unlike what Denver did the year before.
Statistically speaking, the offense was terrible vs. 2015. In actual play, the differences weren't that stark. They just weren't called on to have to throw 50+ times or play from double-digit deficits for 3/4ths of a game.
It's great the Giants sucked! And it's OK the first string offense had their asses handed to them for the entire first half, because the 2nd half was played by guys we knew were going to suck anyway!
.
Do you truly believe the Browns are a better team than the Giants? That if they played ten times in 2017, the Browns hold serve or impose their will on the Giants?
last night actually had an impact on some of you? Seriously?
wasn't dominant. They had a lot of problems running the ball, had little at TE and weren't good in short yardage conversions.
What they did have was the luxury of playing from behind and they HAD to try and score.
I don't know if it is being purposely glossed over to fit a narrative, but last year's team was better off when the offense minimized mistakes and played close to the vest. It wasn't ideal, but I believe if you tried to open up things and we took sacks or gave up turnovers, that we'd have had a worst record.
McAdoo coached to the team's strength, not too unlike what Denver did the year before.
Statistically speaking, the offense was terrible vs. 2015. In actual play, the differences weren't that stark. They just weren't called on to have to throw 50+ times or play from double-digit deficits for 3/4ths of a game.
I agree with your point about playing to the team's strength. I also believe that not doing that would have resulted in a worse record.
I still just can't understand the proverbial cliff the offense fell off in between 2015 and 2016.
I may be wrong, but I think that playing from behind in 2015 thing isn't true. I remember a stat from the 2015 season, and somebody could double check this... I believe the 2015 Giants lost something like 6 or 7 games where they had the lead with under 4 minutes to go.
that HCs around the NFL have openly admitted to calling plays in the preseason that are doomed to fail. Did you forget that or even let that FACT even register?
Again, HCs in the NFL have openly acknowledged that they will instruct the QB to run the play even if it's certain to fail.
Read that last sentence over and over again until it sinks in.
I can't believe how worked up some of you get over this garbage.
that they were scoring in garbage time when the other team had put it on cruise control.
If that stat I posted above is accurate, then that's not the case. The offense was scoring when it had to, not because the other team already had it in the bag.
was easily the most overrated NYG offense in my lifetime. I stand by that. IT didn't close games. It didn't win many games. It scored points sometimes. It piled up yardage at times. And it won 12 games over two seasons. Whenever the chips were down, the offense folded faster than a poker hand of 2-7.
So last year comes along. Everyone just expects the offense to go bananas even though there was only one legit WR on the team. No RB talent AT ALL. None. An average at best OL that lost its best player for half the season. NO professional TEs AT ALL. That offense. So what did the offense do? IT struggled after playing well through the first 3 games. It struggled to pile up big numbers. It struggled to run the ball over most of the year. But what did the offense do? It closed games. When the games were tight in the 2nd half, I can think of about 4-5 instances where that so called garbage offense delivered a TD drive or FG drives needed to win a game. It even ran the ball down the stretch of a few games which led to victories.
The Giants went 11-5 last year. Eli found ways to win games last year that he found ways to lose in 14-15. Call it what you will. McAdoo grew into his job last year. Eli learned how to win again last year. Let's see what they do in 2017. Again, people need to fucking forget about 2014 and 2015. Those seasons were fucking disgusting. Those offenses were overrated and misleading. This team is different. New HC. New players. Let's see if this offense grows in 2017 before you condemn it. It's not growing out of the ashes of 2015. IT's building from a different place.
I'm just cranky and a little hungover from staying up late and watching last night.
I'm hopeful that the offense can get it together and do their part to help the defense continue to win games.
I'm still not adjusted to the "new look" Giants I guess.
The team was one way for over a decade, and now it's like the polar opposite of that. I guess I'm still trying to wrap my head around the new philosophy.
was easily the most overrated NYG offense in my lifetime. I stand by that. IT didn't close games. It didn't win many games. It scored points sometimes. It piled up yardage at times. And it won 12 games over two seasons. Whenever the chips were down, the offense folded faster than a poker hand of 2-7.
So last year comes along. Everyone just expects the offense to go bananas even though there was only one legit WR on the team. No RB talent AT ALL. None. An average at best OL that lost its best player for half the season. NO professional TEs AT ALL. That offense. So what did the offense do? IT struggled after playing well through the first 3 games. It struggled to pile up big numbers. It struggled to run the ball over most of the year. But what did the offense do? It closed games. When the games were tight in the 2nd half, I can think of about 4-5 instances where that so called garbage offense delivered a TD drive or FG drives needed to win a game. It even ran the ball down the stretch of a few games which led to victories.
The Giants went 11-5 last year. Eli found ways to win games last year that he found ways to lose in 14-15. Call it what you will. McAdoo grew into his job last year. Eli learned how to win again last year. Let's see what they do in 2017. Again, people need to fucking forget about 2014 and 2015. Those seasons were fucking disgusting. Those offenses were overrated and misleading. This team is different. New HC. New players. Let's see if this offense grows in 2017 before you condemn it. It's not growing out of the ashes of 2015. IT's building from a different place.
I actually agree with you, and that's kind of what I just wrote. I just need to get used to it.
don't you think it's possible that teams finally figured out how to stop the Giants (Beckham) offense? From 14-15 all the Giants had was Beckham. That was it yet they found ways to score and produce. Is it remotely possible that the chicken was coming home to roost? That even if Coughlin had stayed and coached the team in 2016, this good ship loli-pop offense was going to sink just a bit?
The personnel wasn't that good in 14-15. IT wasn't that good last year. We were all a bit fooled. I know I was. But looking back, the offense struggling at times last year makes a ton of sense. It was basically quick strikes to Beckham and Shepard and pray for rain.
dude you are romanticizing the 2015 offense. They would have gone on the road against a good team and played well??? BAsed on what? Don't conjure up stats. Conjure up your actual gut feeling. Conjure up logic. The 2015 Giants couldn't beat anyone worth their salt. I could see them scoring a few TDs early only to blow the lead and then the offense would remain in neutral the rest of the game.
You're acting like the 14-15 offenses carried the Giants to actual victory. No, not all their production came in garbage time but they scored points in a losing effort time and time again. They weren't very good. Period. That offense was the epitome of average and with little staying power. It was 1980s AFC style. IT sucked.
dude you are romanticizing the 2015 offense. They would have gone on the road against a good team and played well??? BAsed on what? Don't conjure up stats. Conjure up your actual gut feeling. Conjure up logic. The 2015 Giants couldn't beat anyone worth their salt. I could see them scoring a few TDs early only to blow the lead and then the offense would remain in neutral the rest of the game.
You're acting like the 14-15 offenses carried the Giants to actual victory. No, not all their production came in garbage time but they scored points in a losing effort time and time again. They weren't very good. Period. That offense was the epitome of average and with little staying power. It was 1980s AFC style. IT sucked.
They took the lead on the 13-0 Carolina Panthers (6th best defense in the NFL with Josh Norman) with under 2 minutes to play, after being down 21 points in the 4th quarter, who nearly had an undefeated regular season and made it to the Superbowl. Until the defense folded like a cheap suit and allowed Cam and company to effortlessly move into field goal range for the game winner as time expired.
don't get me wrong. I have concerns too. We all do. I just can't base things on 2014 and 2015 anymore. After Washington week 3 last year I told myself to put 2016 in a vacuum. To treat the season as new. What was done was done. I knew there were gonna be tough times ahead with road games at GB and Minny lurking. All I wanted was the 2016 team to learn how to win again. In my eyes, it wasn't about stats anymore. It was about an identity. The Giants had to win games last year. HAd to.
Now we see how this team responds to more pressure and tougher games. The talent has been upgraded. The HC has a year under his belt. Talk to me in January. Until then I will cautiously hope (expect) this team to mature and progress off of LAST season. Not 2014. Not 2015. Not 2007. New team. New players. No era. What happened in 2015 means next to nothing in my view. I know McAdoo can call an offense. I saw him do it for two years. That's how he got the HC job. Now win big games in January. I couldn't care less about stats.
Remember when we all hated Gilbride and wanted him out
And that game was an excellent example of one they had to score just to get back to the tie. In New Orleans, they had to keep scoring because the D was so poor and yet when they had a chance to make a winning drive, they went three and out, punted and set them up for a winning FG.
Against the Jets, they failed to pick up a 3rd and 1 and then missed a FG that would've won the game. And that doesn't even discuss the games against the Cowboys and Falcons to open up the year where the inability to run clock or make a game-clinching play ended up seeing the D let up game-losing drives.
When the offense had the chance to win games, it failed more often than it succeeded, which is actually the opposite of what happened last year
Doesn't matter anymore. That 2015 team also had a fresher JEnnings and healthy Vereen.
I just think it's a mistake to base this offense on those 14-15 teams. Apples and oranges. Base 2016 on nothing. BAse it on a team that was lost in a 4 year wilderness of tough losses. Base it on a new HC and new team. Fresh start. How does 2016 look if you were starting from scratch? Pretty damn good in my eyes. 11 wins is 11 wins.
in my opinion, this 2017 offense really has to do one thing and one thing only. It has to be smarter with the football. Cut down on turnovers. Be smart with the ball. This D is nasty good. This O has play makers on it. When you turn the ball over not only do you force the D to play more, you lose an opportunity to score on offense. You also lose continuity. You lose that flow to the game that the offense needs to roll.
Don't. Turn. The. Ball. Over. I think McAdoo has been trying to build an identity on offense but it can take time. They weren't smart enough last year. Eli threw some picks or passes last year that are unacceptable, especially with this team. I would think its been hard for Eli to sort of change his way of attacking. He's always been a gunslinger. Who knows. But If I had to bet I would think they want a smarter offense in 2017.
since he got here 3 years ago. Beyond Odell Beckham making insane individual efforts we do absolutely nothing. And this is with Eli Manning at QB. Nothing.
I find it hilarious that people are giving him so much credit for getting us to 11-5. Shouldn't Spags and the defensive players be getting the lion's share of the credit?
McAdoo's biggest plus is he's realized to get the f#ck out of the way and not screw it up for the defense. I apologize if I'm not sold on anything he's personally doing yet. And I freely admit I hate the WCO, never wanted him here and do not think his style fits the NY climate in particular.
since he got here 3 years ago. Beyond Odell Beckham making insane individual efforts we do absolutely nothing. And this is with Eli Manning at QB. Nothing.
I find it hilarious that people are giving him so much credit for getting us to 11-5. Shouldn't Spags and the defensive players be getting the lion's share of the credit?
McAdoo's biggest plus is he's realized to get the f#ck out of the way and not screw it up for the defense. I apologize if I'm not sold on anything he's personally doing yet. And I freely admit I hate the WCO, never wanted him here and do not think his style fits the NY climate in particular.
they run the west coast offense in green bay, how does it not fit the new york climate? patriots are in shotgun and passing more times than not and are in foxboro...
it is a passing league...
They flat out ignored the OL the last two offseasons
Last year, with the improvements made to the D, It was proved to be the right call. This year, they had some money to work with, and didn't improve the OL at all. You don't need to be an expert to see that Jerry/Hart are not worthy of starting on this OL. You could get by with one of them and 4 quality guys, but not on this group.
I have to look at the OL coach too. 2 years ago you had 2 young, promising guys in Richburg and Flowers, and here we are 2 yrs later and we haven't seen improvement in either, and you could argue there is significant regression. That first sack last night was a very simple pickup that Jerry/Hart couldn't handle. That scares me.
RE: They flat out ignored the OL the last two offseasons
Last year, with the improvements made to the D, It was proved to be the right call. This year, they had some money to work with, and didn't improve the OL at all. You don't need to be an expert to see that Jerry/Hart are not worthy of starting on this OL. You could get by with one of them and 4 quality guys, but not on this group.
I have to look at the OL coach too. 2 years ago you had 2 young, promising guys in Richburg and Flowers, and here we are 2 yrs later and we haven't seen improvement in either, and you could argue there is significant regression. That first sack last night was a very simple pickup that Jerry/Hart couldn't handle. That scares me.
what good ol were on the market that the giants could afford?
Are you seriously asking me why it works in GB and NE?
Ever hear of Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick?
I'm talking about ideal systems for the climate you play in. A WCO for a windy, rainy, cold, outdoor football team is not ideal. I'm not sure why that's such a controversial statement.
And it's certainly not ideal for an immobile QB who struggles with accuracy.
What exactly has he done to prove he is a good offensive mind? We blindly (and quickly) promoted him through the ranks like an owner handing over the company to his son. Based on no real experience.
So - IMO - not only are we running a bad scheme for our location/QB, we are running a crappy version of that scheme.
Again, just my opinion, and I'm not surprised it's an unpopular one. I will stop, as I don't care to drag McAdoo's name through the mud anymore than I have. Just frustrated with his 3 years here.
think people understand how mild the weather is at Giants games.
They are more likely to face adverse conditions on the road when they play in rainy Florida or the Midwest teams than they are to face horrible weather in NY.
Heck, the last several seasons they have games in December that are in the high 50's.
is that why he has thrown for more than 4000 yards each year in this offense? averaged 30 tds a year in this offense? yards per completion is 3 of his highest for his career, yards per game is 3 of his highest..
the only year he was better is 2011, so how again does it not fit the qb?
the facts dont line up with your opinion..
Fact eli is better im this offense and more accurate than in gillbrides offense..
I guess if we have to watch another season of McAdoo putting his offense in a shell to keep games close at least this year we have a kicker that might be able to get us more FGs in the 50 yard range instead of settling for more pooch punts.
took over last year and it is clear he intentionally put the offense into a shell last year realizing the defense was controlling games.
It can be argued that the offense was stagnant (for the year he's been head coach), but it can also be argued that as the HC, he stuck to the goal of putting the team in the best position to win. It isn't just happenstance that we closed out games last year, in part by minimizing mistakes on offense and controlling field position.
It's sort of like the OL discussion - People go apeshit over the unit being below average, but every team either has a subpar unit or they end up having a bunch of mediocre units. It's a reality today. But we don't focus on the DB's being one of the best in the league. We don't focus on continued excellent DE play - we say things like the GM should be fired for not improving the OL, as if that point alone is the only thing that matters.
I don't think we've seen McAdoo's offense yet. Last year he lost his FB and had little at WR outside of Beckham and no TE presence to stretch the field.
But hey, after preseason game #2, I guess many of you already know what the offense will look like.
Well calibrated post, i.e. no heavy breathing or doom & gloom. Many posters seem to believe that what's obvious to them is overlooked and neglected by a staff of a dozen or more professional coaches. Crazy!
but it is what it is.. We can't change the fact that Mcadoo is the HC so we just have to wait and see how this all pans out. We shall see if this is just a preseason thing and if it spills over into the season.
And continued to be a one dimensional turd all season long. We are now going into year two where there's seemingly no cohesion and very little variation. The only team last season to run the same offense set for what, 96% of all snaps?
That'd hardly four games. That's plenty enough time to see "what you have" considering we've brought back virtually every starter and added a starting WR and a blocking TE.
Bluesbreaker : 11:05 pm : link : reply
last year and nothing has changed can't run can't throw down field . The O-line is a disaster !!!
They're not going to be the worst team in football this year. They have some good players. They're not going to be a playoff team either, but there are a few guys who can play on that team now.
I understand better then most that the OL is a major weakness of the Giants but I feel the tackles are playing better and the OL is better then last year....not saying much....I feel the Jerry/Richburg side is the more pressing issue.. they create nothing in the running game....and the pocket colapses way too quickly on passing plays. I have no idea if Fluker will be better...but I suspect that could be the change coming.
Gallman needs time to learn to pass protect before he can be trusted.
Expect TE decisions will be tough. fB did not help themselves today.
Why not Webb as #2 QB?
This defense will be special if it stays healthy.
Special teams piss me off....
Remember, this isn't 2007 - OL play around the league is down considerably, and top OL resources command insane amounts of money. The team is built to be heavy everywhere else, so they'll just have to work with what they've got.
The additions of Engram and Marshall (crossing fingers that he's healthy) will go a long way towards helping out the O.
Agree there. I want geno smith gone. I don't trust him. I'll never trust him.
Lol!
That was a joke right?
Right?
I'm not there yet. We have one problem unit, and it's hard to lay that on Mac rather than Reese. Maybe Solari is a problem.
I'm not ready to go there yet, but I do admit it is concerning that the offense, which is his area of expertise, has struggled since he's become HC.
Actually, the main problem with the offensive line is sucking.
Quote:
He's not the guy.
I'm not there yet. We have one problem unit, and it's hard to lay that on Mac rather than Reese. Maybe Solari is a problem.
McAdoo hired Solari.
They will though, and hope for the best.
The O Line can't run block, first or second team, either one.
Geno looked okay, until...Josh Johnson, late in the game to
actually try and win, LOL.
Only 2 more games left...ugly football for my eyes.
Quote:
He's not the guy.
I'm not ready to go there yet, but I do admit it is concerning that the offense, which is his area of expertise, has struggled since he's become HC.
19.5 points per game last year.
In the offense friendly NFL. 19.5 points per game. In the final 6 games last year, we failed to break 20 points.
Also, is it fair to attribute much of the offensive short comings to lack of talent? 3-4 guys that started on offense last year are either out of the NFL or playing less prominent roles in 2017. And everyone seems convinced the OL is the source of all that is wrong in this world, so isn't that a legit excuse for 19 ppg?
It's also August fricking 21st and mcadoo is 11-5 in his career. Wtf.
Keep the faith though I remember Giants winning 6 in preseason(yes that long ago) and having disastrous regular season.
Night all
Thank u 🙏🏽
Carry on. Vent away. If it helps some of you cope or prepare so be it. I think it's too early and preseason is a joke. I know it's a joke. But do what you gotta do. I'm out.
The line isn't physically competitive and gets pushed around in man up blocking. AS a result we consistently run for 1 or fewer yards. We then follow those plays up with a short pass to try and get yards back but the defense is sitting on the los so they respond quickly and there is very little open space or opportunity for yac. Now we are in and-long situations and have to hold against a defense with its ears pinned back long enough for our receivers to come open down the field. Rinse, repeat.
We need to be testing defenses before they settle in and trying to make them cover as much of the field as possible. Doing so would in turn offer more opportunities for double teams and combo blocks to aid our under powered but reasonably athletic o-line create space in the running game.
It's been over a fucking year and Mac appears to still be banging his head against the same fucking wall. He needs to recognize that what he is asking isn't going to get done and adjust to put his players in more reasonable positions.
In the face of that I don't see how bringing in one OL this late is going to fix our offensive problems.
It's pretty clear that the offensive line can't fucking run block and the pass blocking hasn't been anything to write home about either.
Maybe I don't understand football as much as I think I do - but how exactly do you run a successful offense when that's the case? I'm pretty sure you can't trick an NFL defense for 4 quarters.
You need to be able to fucking block and right now, this team can't do it.
Makes sense... It's the same line!
Also, is it fair to attribute much of the offensive short comings to lack of talent? 3-4 guys that started on offense last year are either out of the NFL or playing less prominent roles in 2017. And everyone seems convinced the OL is the source of all that is wrong in this world, so isn't that a legit excuse for 19 ppg?
It's also August fricking 21st and mcadoo is 11-5 in his career. Wtf.
You're a solid contributor here but I am completely on the other side of the spectrum here with regards to this offense. More times than not, what you see in August spills over into the regular season with the NYG O. I remember the O struggling so bad the only positive play was a Cruz bomb in Pittsburgh for a TD. That year the O was so bad it got Gilbride "retired". Last year we saw the OL getting oblitterated. And it did all year. So far, it's more of the same. Positive practice reports are few and far between and game action vs other teams' starting D's have been ugly. I'd say the concern is well warranted.
link - ( New Window )
Reese is covering up his disdain for drafting OL by getting more 'weapons'.
During his tenure of 12 years, how many OL has he drafted in the first 3 rounds(approx 36 possibilities) that were NOT 'reaches'?
Flowers, no;Pugh;and not many other OL at all. He even bottom fed by hunting for 'projects in rounds 4-7 hoping to strike gold.
Eli has 'David Carr Syndrome'(feeling D pressure even when it is not there) and has since the 2012 OL collapse.
Problem wasn't Flaherty, and it is not Solari.
Reese is covering up his disdain for drafting OL by getting more 'weapons'.
During his tenure of 12 years, how many OL has he drafted in the first 3 rounds(approx 36 possibilities) that were NOT 'reaches'?
Flowers, no;Pugh;and not many other OL at all. He even bottom fed by hunting for 'projects in rounds 4-7 hoping to strike gold.
Eli has 'David Carr Syndrome'(feeling D pressure even when it is not there) and has since the 2012 OL collapse.
Problem wasn't Flaherty, and it is not Solari.
His "disdain for drafting OL" ?
Where the fuck do people come up with this shit?
Where did Justin Pugh, Weston Richburg, Ereck Flowers, and Bobby Hart come from?
I thought you were a lot smarter than this...
Who the fuck cares what their record was last year? They had a boat load of picks this year and have added some solid players to their roster. They have some good players there. They aren't going 1-15 again this year.
You don't have to watch football that long to realize that team records can fluctuate wildly from year to year.
Look at the Carolina Panthers if you don't believe me.
The Cowboys went from 4-12 to 13-3 in one.
There are a billion examples of stuff like this. Team records from last year belong in the trash - they are irrelevant now.
This is the main problem..pass blocking is ok "at times"..not very bad, but not great neither..manageable at least compared to the two facets.
Just sayin'...
I'm a fan of whomever's offense scores enough points to win.
I have my concerns about the offensive line - they need to be better. Some of the comments are getting ridiculous, though.
Quote:
No one is denying the Browns are going to be better this year, I actaully agree with you on that one. The problem im having is what complete mess this offense was today!
I have my concerns about the offensive line - they need to be better. Some of the comments are getting ridiculous, though.
And that's the same line that's been repeated since 2012.
Quote:
In comment 13568232 prdave73 said:
Quote:
No one is denying the Browns are going to be better this year, I actaully agree with you on that one. The problem im having is what complete mess this offense was today!
I have my concerns about the offensive line - they need to be better. Some of the comments are getting ridiculous, though.
And that's the same line that's been repeated since 2012.
Yeah, it has nothing to do with absurd comments like "McAdoo isn't the guy for the job" - but don't let that stop you from continuing to make them.
Why are we trying to establish the run when we can't. BUT if we first establish the pass we might be able to judiciously work the run
I have no idea how you can say this. Mac was 11-5 in his first year of coaching and if not for two dropped TD passes in the first half, the Giants might very well have advanced deep into the playoffs last year. Should he retain the play calling? Don't know. But not the guy? On the basis of what?
Now, a guy like Jerry was not drafted to start. He was thrust into a starting role due to injuries. But, for 2 subsequent seasons he is still penciled in as a starter. That is where I have a problem. We had a horrific OL last year. As of right now, there is a very good chance it is exactly the same to open the season. Sure, their depth is better. But, so fucking what? They have the same shitty 5 man group that can't open a single hole in the running game and is mediocre at pass blocking with no shot against speed. The only guy who looks to have improved is Hart...but by how much?
So, yes Reese did address the OL. But, his moves have yielded a line potentially worse than a few years ago.
Their D is talented enough to make them a competitive team. But, is it good enough to carry them to double digit wins? Even the best D needs some support from an offense.
With all of that said, I like how he manages games. He won 11 games his rookie year. You cannot blame him for the players on the OL.
Also, everybody needs to remember that you do not gameplan for your opponent in the preseason. At least it isn't as in depth as the regular season. You go into the preseason trying to see what you havr in your team. Most of the time that means working on your weaknesses such as trying to establish your run game. McAdoo made mention to working on working on the screen game last week. It isn't always about running plays that you are comfortable with.
Now, while that is nice, I think he needs to do something to get this offense going for confidence as well as something to build off of. I am not getting bent out shape over this game even though I wanted to throw up watching this offensive line attempt to block. I don't want tk hear McAdoo deflect the blame onto Eli, the WRs, Perkins, or the TEs. It would be nice if he held them accountable.
The thing that bothers me the most is that we can have guys. who were undrafted FAs like O'Hara and Suebert or a fifth round pick like Diehl be part of an OL with a second round pick in Snee and a high priced FA in McKenzie (yes, O'Hara was a FA signing too) and have them block for a downfield passing attack that requires like 4 seconds of protection. However, we have 2 first round picks and a second round pick and we cannot even consistently block for 2 seconds in this quick release offense. In theory, McAdoo makes sense when he wants to keep Pugh at guard because a guy coming around the edge shouldn't be able tl get to the QB on time. Well, our OL is defying physics. And this isn't all on the tackles. Jerry and Richburg didn't play well. There is just no consistency with this OL whether it is in the run game or pass game unless that consistency is that you know pressure will come from some spot nearly every play.
Their D is talented enough to make them a competitive team. But, is it good enough to carry them to double digit wins? Even the best D needs some support from an offense.
I mean... they just did last year.
I'm skeptical of doing it again only because the schedule is tough and it's hard to lean so heavily on a defense with such little support. I don't think this team can win another SB unless the offense gets markedly better.
I'm absolutely concerned about the line play right now but we do need to at least play a few regular season games before we know what this team really is.
With all of that said, I like how he manages games. He won 11 games his rookie year. You cannot blame him for the players on the OL.
Also, everybody needs to remember that you do not gameplan for your opponent in the preseason. At least it isn't as in depth as the regular season. You go into the preseason trying to see what you havr in your team. Most of the time that means working on your weaknesses such as trying to establish your run game. McAdoo made mention to working on working on the screen game last week. It isn't always about running plays that you are comfortable with.
Now, while that is nice, I think he needs to do something to get this offense going for confidence as well as something to build off of. I am not getting bent out shape over this game even though I wanted to throw up watching this offensive line attempt to block. I don't want tk hear McAdoo deflect the blame onto Eli, the WRs, Perkins, or the TEs. It would be nice if he held them accountable.
The thing that bothers me the most is that we can have guys. who were undrafted FAs like O'Hara and Suebert or a fifth round pick like Diehl be part of an OL with a second round pick in Snee and a high priced FA in McKenzie (yes, O'Hara was a FA signing too) and have them block for a downfield passing attack that requires like 4 seconds of protection. However, we have 2 first round picks and a second round pick and we cannot even consistently block for 2 seconds in this quick release offense. In theory, McAdoo makes sense when he wants to keep Pugh at guard because a guy coming around the edge shouldn't be able tl get to the QB on time. Well, our OL is defying physics. And this isn't all on the tackles. Jerry and Richburg didn't play well. There is just no consistency with this OL whether it is in the run game or pass game unless that consistency is that you know pressure will come from some spot nearly every play.
Some of that is on the GM for the personnel. But some is on him as well. I thought did a terrible job calling plays as the HC. It seems Sullivan may be doing that this year, but the results don't appear to be much better.
The Cleveland D beat the crap out of them all night long.
He was never an OC before we hired him and he was never a HC before we hired him. At any level. At least to this fan, I've got to wonder if he knows what he's doing. I just don't see anything resembling an effective offense.
On a side note, Shepard and Richburg continue to be overrated players. Shepard is OK but his inability to break a tackle or make anyone miss is almost ridiculous at this point. 2 skills kind of important in the slot. He put up some numbers - but Dwayne Harris actually had a higher YPC in the slot the year before and paced the same TDs. We need these 2nd round picks (Richburg + Shepard) to be assets on the field.
The Cleveland D beat the crap out of them all night long.
You left out the most important part....
...IN A PRESEASON GAME.
You guys remember these don't count, right? And that half the game is basically played by guys who might be stocking shelves before too long, and that when the starters are playing they actually remember that it is, uh, a PRESEASON GAME?
Like fucking clockwork around here...
.
i've stated that already, I even predicted over 40 yards rushing.
looking at the highlights, that first sack looked like a quick hitter to Vereen, but when the linebackers blitz, I wonder if he should have picked it up instead. The Line looks like it came late, but I am not sure if it was on Richburg or a guard.
I think it is unfair that the Cleveland Browns and Pittsburgh Steelers start off 1-0 while everybody else goes back to 0-0.
learn it, live it.
Even when the Giants lineup three wide defenses sit on those short passing lanes because for the most part that's all they throw anymore. As result when they do try and run the second line e of defense has less ground to cover when supporting against the run.
I don't like this offense. Never have. The fans loved to kill Gilbride when he was here but I'll take his offensive philosophy over McAdoo's any day.
Needs to get cleaned up ASAP.
Even when the Giants lineup three wide defenses sit on those short passing lanes because for the most part that's all they throw anymore. As result when they do try and run the second line e of defense has less ground to cover when supporting against the run.
I don't like this offense. Never have. The fans loved to kill Gilbride when he was here but I'll take his offensive philosophy over McAdoo's any day.
What if the line is so horrible bad that opening things up gets Eli sacked 1.5 seconds after the play starts every down?
(In case you missed this)
This is 5-11 offense, thank god we have a 13-3 defense.
I guess you can laud McAdoo's game management even though he was terribly conservative with the offensive game calling and relied heavily on the defense to make that game saving stop. But I certainly don't see a boy genius when it comes to play calling. We know it's not just deliberately being vanilla during preseason because we saw it last year too. We can blame the lack of talent on the OL, but we can't blame lack of TE/FB this year. So let's see what he can do.
All I can say is, thank god for this defense.
They now have two number ones and a two to go along with and undrafted player in Hart and Jerry who is a mountain of a man. How can all these guys individually be that bad. As for Eli getting killed he's getting killed already. On the first series he got drilled. Even when he did I have time they were breathing down his neck.
Again, collectively how bad can this offensive line really be? What does McAdoo have to lose. Open up the offense and make these defense defend against the speed you possess. How often do you see them take a shot down the field with arguably one of the fastest receivers in the league. For that mattter they can all run. Even Perkins. Looks st his highlight tapes from UCLA.. Spags has his shit together while the offense shits the bed.
Read here how horrific the offense was - obviously. Read how bad Geno and Johnson played, as expected.
Then I read they had the ball on the 3 and 9 yard lines and an int by Geno and a fumble by Gallman killed the drives. Read that Shepard was holding the ball like a loaf of bread and was stripped.... So two turnovers inside the 10 yardline...
Eli was 10 of 14 for 80 yds in about 1/3 of the game? That really isn't that bad after 2 three and outs on the 1st two possessions.
Sloppy pre-season play and losing Beckham early are not conducive to scoring.
Not really time for panic, yet.
But the fact is, the offense has completely fallen off a cliff since McAdoo, an offensive guy, has taken over as HC. We have a championship caliber defense right now, and the offense was a hindrance last year, and looks like it will be again this year.
We can't run the ball. We can't pass protect. Doesn't matter what we have at skill positions if we can't do that.
We got manhandled by the Cleveland Browns last night. The Cleveland Browns offense was more effective than ours, and they were going against our defense.
People scratch their heads and wonder "gee, McAdoo was such a great coordinator, yet now he's still calling the plays and we can't do anything, what happened?" Even though it makes people react like vampires getting doused with holy water, the answer is simple. That was mainly Coughlin's offense he was running! How else can you explain the offense going completely stagnant after McAdoo took over Head Coach? The players were all the same when Coughlin was head coach, how did we get so much more out of them? We went from 6th in the NFL in scoring to 26th after the switch.
He managed the game well, I'll give him that. That's great. But he's an offensive guy, and I want to see some damn offense. We are completely WASTING the end of Eli's career. This is unacceptable.
But the fact is, the offense has completely fallen off a cliff since McAdoo, an offensive guy, has taken over as HC. We have a championship caliber defense right now, and the offense was a hindrance last year, and looks like it will be again this year.
We can't run the ball. We can't pass protect. Doesn't matter what we have at skill positions if we can't do that.
We got manhandled by the Cleveland Browns last night. The Cleveland Browns offense was more effective than ours, and they were going against our defense.
People scratch their heads and wonder "gee, McAdoo was such a great coordinator, yet now he's still calling the plays and we can't do anything, what happened?" Even though it makes people react like vampires getting doused with holy water, the answer is simple. That was mainly Coughlin's offense he was running! How else can you explain the offense going completely stagnant after McAdoo took over Head Coach? The players were all the same when Coughlin was head coach, how did we get so much more out of them? We went from 6th in the NFL in scoring to 26th after the switch.
He managed the game well, I'll give him that. That's great. But he's an offensive guy, and I want to see some damn offense. We are completely WASTING the end of Eli's career. This is unacceptable.
I think that vampires and holy water thing is a myth.
We got manhandled by the Cleveland Browns last night. The Cleveland Browns offense was more effective than ours, and they were going against our defense.
We are completely WASTING the end of Eli's career. This is unacceptable.
If scoring 7 points is being manhandled, then I'll need a definition of good defense.
I am also tired of hearing about wasting Eli's career. Eli has more than a little to do with the Giants offense.
I would like to blame the CBA for lack of practice opportunities when they are trying to put together a cohesive line. Stupid mentality, limiting practice time.
what works they keep, what doesnt they scrap, also remember there is no gameplanning for an opponent, it is mostly just running what they want to run...
also there are no adjustments being made or anything like that, they stick to what they wanted to run in that particular game and run iy no mattet what...
Second of all, the Browns front 7 is terrific.
McAdoo not the answer after losing a couple of preseason games? After winning 11 in year one? That's a stretch.
I actually like McAdoo as HC though. He showed me a lot last year., has they nasty Parcells style streak, not afraid to call people out.
It's about Eli getting crushed within the first three plays of the game on a stunt right up the middle, untouched.
Second of all, the Browns front 7 is terrific.
McAdoo not the answer after losing a couple of preseason games? After winning 11 in year one? That's a stretch.
We were sold on McAdoo being Head Coach based on his offensive prowess. That's why we ALL (myself included) wanted him to take over as head coach. Based on what he had supposedly done for our offense in 2014 and 2015.
The offense has been completely stagnant since he took over. That can't be denied.
He coached a team with very little offensive talent last season to an 11-5 record and a playoff game that could have had a much different result if players (receivers) made plays.
Come on.
what works they keep, what doesnt they scrap, also remember there is no gameplanning for an opponent, it is mostly just running what they want to run...
also there are no adjustments being made or anything like that, they stick to what they wanted to run in that particular game and run iy no mattet what...
and their objectives are surely different from the regular season. For example, wouldn't it make sense for them to run poor-performing plays repeatedly?
For all we know the coaches may be somewhat pleased at this point.
BTW, I'm not much of a football analyst but Flowers looked OK last night.
It can be argued that the offense was stagnant (for the year he's been head coach), but it can also be argued that as the HC, he stuck to the goal of putting the team in the best position to win. It isn't just happenstance that we closed out games last year, in part by minimizing mistakes on offense and controlling field position.
It's sort of like the OL discussion - People go apeshit over the unit being below average, but every team either has a subpar unit or they end up having a bunch of mediocre units. It's a reality today. But we don't focus on the DB's being one of the best in the league. We don't focus on continued excellent DE play - we say things like the GM should be fired for not improving the OL, as if that point alone is the only thing that matters.
I don't think we've seen McAdoo's offense yet. Last year he lost his FB and had little at WR outside of Beckham and no TE presence to stretch the field.
But hey, after preseason game #2, I guess many of you already know what the offense will look like.
Hey man, if anything, I've been consistent. I was ripping him last year during the season, because even as we were racking up wins, you could just see the writing on the wall with offense.
Tell me you didn't know we were in trouble heading to Green Bay, not being able to break the 20 point barrier for 5 straight games heading in. It was just a sense of when, not if, it was going to fall apart on offense.
Quote:
I like you as a poster, but you seem like you have been waiting for the opportunity to rip McAdoo (it's hard to do that at 11-5), but the second preseason game in you pounce. The offense has been bad. Let's see how it plays out. I do miss the Coughlin/Gilbride push the ball down the field philosophy, but let's see what happens.
Hey man, if anything, I've been consistent. I was ripping him last year during the season, because even as we were racking up wins, you could just see the writing on the wall with offense.
Tell me you didn't know we were in trouble heading to Green Bay, not being able to break the 20 point barrier for 5 straight games heading in. It was just a sense of when, not if, it was going to fall apart on offense.
What's your solution right now then?
It can be argued that the offense was stagnant (for the year he's been head coach), but it can also be argued that as the HC, he stuck to the goal of putting the team in the best position to win. It isn't just happenstance that we closed out games last year, in part by minimizing mistakes on offense and controlling field position.
It's sort of like the OL discussion - People go apeshit over the unit being below average, but every team either has a subpar unit or they end up having a bunch of mediocre units. It's a reality today. But we don't focus on the DB's being one of the best in the league. We don't focus on continued excellent DE play - we say things like the GM should be fired for not improving the OL, as if that point alone is the only thing that matters.
I don't think we've seen McAdoo's offense yet. Last year he lost his FB and had little at WR outside of Beckham and no TE presence to stretch the field.
But hey, after preseason game #2, I guess many of you already know what the offense will look like.
My problem with intentionally putting the offense in a shell is that when you do that, you can't just flick the switch and take them out of it when you need it. Like Green Bay. Everybody on this board knew we were going to have to score over 20 points to beat Green Bay. We got smoked.
Not shocking that we'd lose a road playoff game, even if we played excellent on offense.
Not shocking that we'd lose a road playoff game, even if we played excellent on offense.
Not to start the game. It got away in the second half, but our defense was stifling Rogers and hitting him a lot in the first quarter/half. The offense couldn't capitalize, Rogers adjusted, and off it went.
I think I'll wait as I always do to allow the OL to get their 60-70 or more of consistent snaps a game where synergy is built over a period of of several games before ATTEMPTING to assess where we are..I will NOT go by last year and I will NOT go by preseason.
There's a reason why Parcells et al have said it takes around 4 regular season games to "see what you have."
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
Agree. McAdoo did a great job last year and proved that he is a Head Coach, not just an "offense guy". He coaches the whole team and puts thm in position to win, and is not wedded to an ideology.
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
It was. My problem is, why is the team one dimensional? That's my whole issue.
The 2015 Giants offense could have hung with Green Bay, arguably with less players on offense than what we had last year. They scored over 30 points 7 times in 2015. They scored over 20 points in all but three games that season.
The 2016 Giants not only never scored 30 points, they only made it to 20 points in 7 games.
What happened that made them so one dimensional? That's what I can't wrap my head around.
You pair the 2015 offense with the 2016 defense and you have a championship caliber team.
I just can't understand why that didn't/couldn't happen.
There are legitimate concerns after two games that the OL is no better than last year. We have struggled to move the ball, and have no touchdowns. We are the second worst rushing team in the league since 2011. Only Jacksonville is worse.
Aside from Pugh, our guards and tackles don't seem to have quick enough feet. Flowers is still resorting to choke holds to compensate for his inability to handle speed rushers. Richburg also gets pushed back into pocket. We seem to have a hard time picking up simple stunts.
I assume there isn't much veteran OL help, but I wouldn't be surprised if we pick up someone after final cuts. Packaging some players we intend to cut for a veteran OL might also be a possibility.
In the interim, I think we should consider moving Pugh to LT, and Flowers to either LG or RG, with Gettis at the other spot. I'm inclined to cut Jerry, and probably Fluker, although I agree that won't happen. But at least one should not be on the final roster. Until we solve this problem, teams will just continue blitzing and stunting.
The backup QB situation is also concerning. Everybody knows we're finished if Eli is out for a significant period of time. But we hope that our backup QB could at least carry us for a few games. Right now, I have no confidence that Johnson or Smith could do so.
The defense of course was excellent. Munson has played well.
What they did have was the luxury of playing from behind and they HAD to try and score.
I don't know if it is being purposely glossed over to fit a narrative, but last year's team was better off when the offense minimized mistakes and played close to the vest. It wasn't ideal, but I believe if you tried to open up things and we took sacks or gave up turnovers, that we'd have had a worst record.
McAdoo coached to the team's strength, not too unlike what Denver did the year before.
Statistically speaking, the offense was terrible vs. 2015. In actual play, the differences weren't that stark. They just weren't called on to have to throw 50+ times or play from double-digit deficits for 3/4ths of a game.
.
Do you truly believe the Browns are a better team than the Giants? That if they played ten times in 2017, the Browns hold serve or impose their will on the Giants?
last night actually had an impact on some of you? Seriously?
Every frickin year.
What they did have was the luxury of playing from behind and they HAD to try and score.
I don't know if it is being purposely glossed over to fit a narrative, but last year's team was better off when the offense minimized mistakes and played close to the vest. It wasn't ideal, but I believe if you tried to open up things and we took sacks or gave up turnovers, that we'd have had a worst record.
McAdoo coached to the team's strength, not too unlike what Denver did the year before.
Statistically speaking, the offense was terrible vs. 2015. In actual play, the differences weren't that stark. They just weren't called on to have to throw 50+ times or play from double-digit deficits for 3/4ths of a game.
I agree with your point about playing to the team's strength. I also believe that not doing that would have resulted in a worse record.
I still just can't understand the proverbial cliff the offense fell off in between 2015 and 2016.
I may be wrong, but I think that playing from behind in 2015 thing isn't true. I remember a stat from the 2015 season, and somebody could double check this... I believe the 2015 Giants lost something like 6 or 7 games where they had the lead with under 4 minutes to go.
Again, HCs in the NFL have openly acknowledged that they will instruct the QB to run the play even if it's certain to fail.
Read that last sentence over and over again until it sinks in.
I can't believe how worked up some of you get over this garbage.
If that stat I posted above is accurate, then that's not the case. The offense was scoring when it had to, not because the other team already had it in the bag.
You think McAdoo is no good because his offense "regressed" but the entire team got better on his watch?
So last year comes along. Everyone just expects the offense to go bananas even though there was only one legit WR on the team. No RB talent AT ALL. None. An average at best OL that lost its best player for half the season. NO professional TEs AT ALL. That offense. So what did the offense do? IT struggled after playing well through the first 3 games. It struggled to pile up big numbers. It struggled to run the ball over most of the year. But what did the offense do? It closed games. When the games were tight in the 2nd half, I can think of about 4-5 instances where that so called garbage offense delivered a TD drive or FG drives needed to win a game. It even ran the ball down the stretch of a few games which led to victories.
The Giants went 11-5 last year. Eli found ways to win games last year that he found ways to lose in 14-15. Call it what you will. McAdoo grew into his job last year. Eli learned how to win again last year. Let's see what they do in 2017. Again, people need to fucking forget about 2014 and 2015. Those seasons were fucking disgusting. Those offenses were overrated and misleading. This team is different. New HC. New players. Let's see if this offense grows in 2017 before you condemn it. It's not growing out of the ashes of 2015. IT's building from a different place.
I'm hopeful that the offense can get it together and do their part to help the defense continue to win games.
I'm still not adjusted to the "new look" Giants I guess.
The team was one way for over a decade, and now it's like the polar opposite of that. I guess I'm still trying to wrap my head around the new philosophy.
So last year comes along. Everyone just expects the offense to go bananas even though there was only one legit WR on the team. No RB talent AT ALL. None. An average at best OL that lost its best player for half the season. NO professional TEs AT ALL. That offense. So what did the offense do? IT struggled after playing well through the first 3 games. It struggled to pile up big numbers. It struggled to run the ball over most of the year. But what did the offense do? It closed games. When the games were tight in the 2nd half, I can think of about 4-5 instances where that so called garbage offense delivered a TD drive or FG drives needed to win a game. It even ran the ball down the stretch of a few games which led to victories.
The Giants went 11-5 last year. Eli found ways to win games last year that he found ways to lose in 14-15. Call it what you will. McAdoo grew into his job last year. Eli learned how to win again last year. Let's see what they do in 2017. Again, people need to fucking forget about 2014 and 2015. Those seasons were fucking disgusting. Those offenses were overrated and misleading. This team is different. New HC. New players. Let's see if this offense grows in 2017 before you condemn it. It's not growing out of the ashes of 2015. IT's building from a different place.
I actually agree with you, and that's kind of what I just wrote. I just need to get used to it.
You think McAdoo is no good because his offense "regressed" but the entire team got better on his watch?
That's exactly what he's thinking. And it's ridiculous.
I pray Mcadoo is remembered as another Brian Billick. Please make it so.
The personnel wasn't that good in 14-15. IT wasn't that good last year. We were all a bit fooled. I know I was. But looking back, the offense struggling at times last year makes a ton of sense. It was basically quick strikes to Beckham and Shepard and pray for rain.
You're acting like the 14-15 offenses carried the Giants to actual victory. No, not all their production came in garbage time but they scored points in a losing effort time and time again. They weren't very good. Period. That offense was the epitome of average and with little staying power. It was 1980s AFC style. IT sucked.
You're acting like the 14-15 offenses carried the Giants to actual victory. No, not all their production came in garbage time but they scored points in a losing effort time and time again. They weren't very good. Period. That offense was the epitome of average and with little staying power. It was 1980s AFC style. IT sucked.
They took the lead on the 13-0 Carolina Panthers (6th best defense in the NFL with Josh Norman) with under 2 minutes to play, after being down 21 points in the 4th quarter, who nearly had an undefeated regular season and made it to the Superbowl. Until the defense folded like a cheap suit and allowed Cam and company to effortlessly move into field goal range for the game winner as time expired.
Now we see how this team responds to more pressure and tougher games. The talent has been upgraded. The HC has a year under his belt. Talk to me in January. Until then I will cautiously hope (expect) this team to mature and progress off of LAST season. Not 2014. Not 2015. Not 2007. New team. New players. No era. What happened in 2015 means next to nothing in my view. I know McAdoo can call an offense. I saw him do it for two years. That's how he got the HC job. Now win big games in January. I couldn't care less about stats.
And again, same scenario, the defense allowed Tom Brady to march down the field and kick the game winner as time expired.
And that game was an excellent example of one they had to score just to get back to the tie. In New Orleans, they had to keep scoring because the D was so poor and yet when they had a chance to make a winning drive, they went three and out, punted and set them up for a winning FG.
Against the Jets, they failed to pick up a 3rd and 1 and then missed a FG that would've won the game. And that doesn't even discuss the games against the Cowboys and Falcons to open up the year where the inability to run clock or make a game-clinching play ended up seeing the D let up game-losing drives.
When the offense had the chance to win games, it failed more often than it succeeded, which is actually the opposite of what happened last year
Doesn't matter anymore. That 2015 team also had a fresher JEnnings and healthy Vereen.
I just think it's a mistake to base this offense on those 14-15 teams. Apples and oranges. Base 2016 on nothing. BAse it on a team that was lost in a 4 year wilderness of tough losses. Base it on a new HC and new team. Fresh start. How does 2016 look if you were starting from scratch? Pretty damn good in my eyes. 11 wins is 11 wins.
Talk to me in December/January.
I just need to wrap my head around this new philosophy and learn to enjoy it.
It's a different team now.
Don't. Turn. The. Ball. Over. I think McAdoo has been trying to build an identity on offense but it can take time. They weren't smart enough last year. Eli threw some picks or passes last year that are unacceptable, especially with this team. I would think its been hard for Eli to sort of change his way of attacking. He's always been a gunslinger. Who knows. But If I had to bet I would think they want a smarter offense in 2017.
I find it hilarious that people are giving him so much credit for getting us to 11-5. Shouldn't Spags and the defensive players be getting the lion's share of the credit?
McAdoo's biggest plus is he's realized to get the f#ck out of the way and not screw it up for the defense. I apologize if I'm not sold on anything he's personally doing yet. And I freely admit I hate the WCO, never wanted him here and do not think his style fits the NY climate in particular.
I find it hilarious that people are giving him so much credit for getting us to 11-5. Shouldn't Spags and the defensive players be getting the lion's share of the credit?
McAdoo's biggest plus is he's realized to get the f#ck out of the way and not screw it up for the defense. I apologize if I'm not sold on anything he's personally doing yet. And I freely admit I hate the WCO, never wanted him here and do not think his style fits the NY climate in particular.
they run the west coast offense in green bay, how does it not fit the new york climate? patriots are in shotgun and passing more times than not and are in foxboro...
it is a passing league...
I have to look at the OL coach too. 2 years ago you had 2 young, promising guys in Richburg and Flowers, and here we are 2 yrs later and we haven't seen improvement in either, and you could argue there is significant regression. That first sack last night was a very simple pickup that Jerry/Hart couldn't handle. That scares me.
I have to look at the OL coach too. 2 years ago you had 2 young, promising guys in Richburg and Flowers, and here we are 2 yrs later and we haven't seen improvement in either, and you could argue there is significant regression. That first sack last night was a very simple pickup that Jerry/Hart couldn't handle. That scares me.
what good ol were on the market that the giants could afford?
would i like to see the offense go out and dominate in preseason? absolutely but until they are start game planning i dont think you will see it...
i think in regular seasom you will see chipping and things like that to help
Ever hear of Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick?
I'm talking about ideal systems for the climate you play in. A WCO for a windy, rainy, cold, outdoor football team is not ideal. I'm not sure why that's such a controversial statement.
And it's certainly not ideal for an immobile QB who struggles with accuracy.
What exactly has he done to prove he is a good offensive mind? We blindly (and quickly) promoted him through the ranks like an owner handing over the company to his son. Based on no real experience.
So - IMO - not only are we running a bad scheme for our location/QB, we are running a crappy version of that scheme.
Again, just my opinion, and I'm not surprised it's an unpopular one. I will stop, as I don't care to drag McAdoo's name through the mud anymore than I have. Just frustrated with his 3 years here.
They are more likely to face adverse conditions on the road when they play in rainy Florida or the Midwest teams than they are to face horrible weather in NY.
Heck, the last several seasons they have games in December that are in the high 50's.
the only year he was better is 2011, so how again does it not fit the qb?
the facts dont line up with your opinion..
Fact eli is better im this offense and more accurate than in gillbrides offense..
if anything for a passing league the wco is perfect for new jersey because it is not long patterns, it is quick hitters and that is why it works...
the giants gave up the least amount of sacks because of the west coast offense. if not eli would be murdered
It can be argued that the offense was stagnant (for the year he's been head coach), but it can also be argued that as the HC, he stuck to the goal of putting the team in the best position to win. It isn't just happenstance that we closed out games last year, in part by minimizing mistakes on offense and controlling field position.
It's sort of like the OL discussion - People go apeshit over the unit being below average, but every team either has a subpar unit or they end up having a bunch of mediocre units. It's a reality today. But we don't focus on the DB's being one of the best in the league. We don't focus on continued excellent DE play - we say things like the GM should be fired for not improving the OL, as if that point alone is the only thing that matters.
I don't think we've seen McAdoo's offense yet. Last year he lost his FB and had little at WR outside of Beckham and no TE presence to stretch the field.
But hey, after preseason game #2, I guess many of you already know what the offense will look like.
Well calibrated post, i.e. no heavy breathing or doom & gloom. Many posters seem to believe that what's obvious to them is overlooked and neglected by a staff of a dozen or more professional coaches. Crazy!
That'd hardly four games. That's plenty enough time to see "what you have" considering we've brought back virtually every starter and added a starting WR and a blocking TE.
That's on McAdoo. He needs to figure it out.