kickoff after suffering through that 1 hour pregame show (or 50 minutes of it.)
Read here how horrific the offense was - obviously. Read how bad Geno and Johnson played, as expected.
Then I read they had the ball on the 3 and 9 yard lines and an int by Geno and a fumble by Gallman killed the drives. Read that Shepard was holding the ball like a loaf of bread and was stripped.... So two turnovers inside the 10 yardline...
Eli was 10 of 14 for 80 yds in about 1/3 of the game? That really isn't that bad after 2 three and outs on the 1st two possessions.
Sloppy pre-season play and losing Beckham early are not conducive to scoring.
But the fact is, the offense has completely fallen off a cliff since McAdoo, an offensive guy, has taken over as HC. We have a championship caliber defense right now, and the offense was a hindrance last year, and looks like it will be again this year.
We can't run the ball. We can't pass protect. Doesn't matter what we have at skill positions if we can't do that.
We got manhandled by the Cleveland Browns last night. The Cleveland Browns offense was more effective than ours, and they were going against our defense.
People scratch their heads and wonder "gee, McAdoo was such a great coordinator, yet now he's still calling the plays and we can't do anything, what happened?" Even though it makes people react like vampires getting doused with holy water, the answer is simple. That was mainly Coughlin's offense he was running! How else can you explain the offense going completely stagnant after McAdoo took over Head Coach? The players were all the same when Coughlin was head coach, how did we get so much more out of them? We went from 6th in the NFL in scoring to 26th after the switch.
He managed the game well, I'll give him that. That's great. But he's an offensive guy, and I want to see some damn offense. We are completely WASTING the end of Eli's career. This is unacceptable.
But the fact is, the offense has completely fallen off a cliff since McAdoo, an offensive guy, has taken over as HC. We have a championship caliber defense right now, and the offense was a hindrance last year, and looks like it will be again this year.
We can't run the ball. We can't pass protect. Doesn't matter what we have at skill positions if we can't do that.
We got manhandled by the Cleveland Browns last night. The Cleveland Browns offense was more effective than ours, and they were going against our defense.
People scratch their heads and wonder "gee, McAdoo was such a great coordinator, yet now he's still calling the plays and we can't do anything, what happened?" Even though it makes people react like vampires getting doused with holy water, the answer is simple. That was mainly Coughlin's offense he was running! How else can you explain the offense going completely stagnant after McAdoo took over Head Coach? The players were all the same when Coughlin was head coach, how did we get so much more out of them? We went from 6th in the NFL in scoring to 26th after the switch.
He managed the game well, I'll give him that. That's great. But he's an offensive guy, and I want to see some damn offense. We are completely WASTING the end of Eli's career. This is unacceptable.
I think that vampires and holy water thing is a myth.
We got manhandled by the Cleveland Browns last night. The Cleveland Browns offense was more effective than ours, and they were going against our defense.
We are completely WASTING the end of Eli's career. This is unacceptable.
If scoring 7 points is being manhandled, then I'll need a definition of good defense.
I am also tired of hearing about wasting Eli's career. Eli has more than a little to do with the Giants offense.
I would like to blame the CBA for lack of practice opportunities when they are trying to put together a cohesive line. Stupid mentality, limiting practice time.
they use to try out different things against live competition because they really cant do that durong practice...
what works they keep, what doesnt they scrap, also remember there is no gameplanning for an opponent, it is mostly just running what they want to run...
also there are no adjustments being made or anything like that, they stick to what they wanted to run in that particular game and run iy no mattet what...
The interior gets no push at all. The RB his his own lineman at the line of scrimmage. Flowers and Hart are not the problem here. Banks was all over this on the halftime show last night. How's that switch from Flaherty to Solari working out? You would have thought by this board that Flaherty was the anti-Christ and never could coach a Title winning team after winning those 2 rings.
I actually like McAdoo as HC though. He showed me a lot last year., has they nasty Parcells style streak, not afraid to call people out.
McAdoo not the answer after losing a couple of preseason games? After winning 11 in year one? That's a stretch.
We were sold on McAdoo being Head Coach based on his offensive prowess. That's why we ALL (myself included) wanted him to take over as head coach. Based on what he had supposedly done for our offense in 2014 and 2015.
The offense has been completely stagnant since he took over. That can't be denied.
but I'm pissed, because it feels like this season is going to be in the shitter before it even gets going, because of the offensive line. And everybody could see it coming a mile away.
By any logical point of view you would appear to be way off in your assessment of McAdoo. That's not to say he's the perfect coach or that he finds long term success here but writing him off based on preseason results? You know better than that.
He coached a team with very little offensive talent last season to an 11-5 record and a playoff game that could have had a much different result if players (receivers) made plays.
Come on.
RE: Pre season is basically live practice for coaches
they use to try out different things against live competition because they really cant do that durong practice...
what works they keep, what doesnt they scrap, also remember there is no gameplanning for an opponent, it is mostly just running what they want to run...
also there are no adjustments being made or anything like that, they stick to what they wanted to run in that particular game and run iy no mattet what...
and their objectives are surely different from the regular season. For example, wouldn't it make sense for them to run poor-performing plays repeatedly?
For all we know the coaches may be somewhat pleased at this point.
BTW, I'm not much of a football analyst but Flowers looked OK last night.
I like you as a poster, but you seem like you have been waiting for the opportunity to rip McAdoo (it's hard to do that at 11-5), but the second preseason game in you pounce. The offense has been bad. Let's see how it plays out. I do miss the Coughlin/Gilbride push the ball down the field philosophy, but let's see what happens.
took over last year and it is clear he intentionally put the offense into a shell last year realizing the defense was controlling games.
It can be argued that the offense was stagnant (for the year he's been head coach), but it can also be argued that as the HC, he stuck to the goal of putting the team in the best position to win. It isn't just happenstance that we closed out games last year, in part by minimizing mistakes on offense and controlling field position.
It's sort of like the OL discussion - People go apeshit over the unit being below average, but every team either has a subpar unit or they end up having a bunch of mediocre units. It's a reality today. But we don't focus on the DB's being one of the best in the league. We don't focus on continued excellent DE play - we say things like the GM should be fired for not improving the OL, as if that point alone is the only thing that matters.
I don't think we've seen McAdoo's offense yet. Last year he lost his FB and had little at WR outside of Beckham and no TE presence to stretch the field.
But hey, after preseason game #2, I guess many of you already know what the offense will look like.
I like you as a poster, but you seem like you have been waiting for the opportunity to rip McAdoo (it's hard to do that at 11-5), but the second preseason game in you pounce. The offense has been bad. Let's see how it plays out. I do miss the Coughlin/Gilbride push the ball down the field philosophy, but let's see what happens.
Hey man, if anything, I've been consistent. I was ripping him last year during the season, because even as we were racking up wins, you could just see the writing on the wall with offense.
Tell me you didn't know we were in trouble heading to Green Bay, not being able to break the 20 point barrier for 5 straight games heading in. It was just a sense of when, not if, it was going to fall apart on offense.
I like you as a poster, but you seem like you have been waiting for the opportunity to rip McAdoo (it's hard to do that at 11-5), but the second preseason game in you pounce. The offense has been bad. Let's see how it plays out. I do miss the Coughlin/Gilbride push the ball down the field philosophy, but let's see what happens.
Hey man, if anything, I've been consistent. I was ripping him last year during the season, because even as we were racking up wins, you could just see the writing on the wall with offense.
Tell me you didn't know we were in trouble heading to Green Bay, not being able to break the 20 point barrier for 5 straight games heading in. It was just a sense of when, not if, it was going to fall apart on offense.
took over last year and it is clear he intentionally put the offense into a shell last year realizing the defense was controlling games.
It can be argued that the offense was stagnant (for the year he's been head coach), but it can also be argued that as the HC, he stuck to the goal of putting the team in the best position to win. It isn't just happenstance that we closed out games last year, in part by minimizing mistakes on offense and controlling field position.
It's sort of like the OL discussion - People go apeshit over the unit being below average, but every team either has a subpar unit or they end up having a bunch of mediocre units. It's a reality today. But we don't focus on the DB's being one of the best in the league. We don't focus on continued excellent DE play - we say things like the GM should be fired for not improving the OL, as if that point alone is the only thing that matters.
I don't think we've seen McAdoo's offense yet. Last year he lost his FB and had little at WR outside of Beckham and no TE presence to stretch the field.
But hey, after preseason game #2, I guess many of you already know what the offense will look like.
My problem with intentionally putting the offense in a shell is that when you do that, you can't just flick the switch and take them out of it when you need it. Like Green Bay. Everybody on this board knew we were going to have to score over 20 points to beat Green Bay. We got smoked.
Not shocking that we'd lose a road playoff game, even if we played excellent on offense.
Not to start the game. It got away in the second half, but our defense was stifling Rogers and hitting him a lot in the first quarter/half. The offense couldn't capitalize, Rogers adjusted, and off it went.
I'll repeat for the final time a re-post from 2 other threads:
I think I'll wait as I always do to allow the OL to get their 60-70 or more of consistent snaps a game where synergy is built over a period of of several games before ATTEMPTING to assess where we are..I will NOT go by last year and I will NOT go by preseason.
There's a reason why Parcells et al have said it takes around 4 regular season games to "see what you have."
the defense got some stops. It also let up a Hail Mary that absolutely crushed the team. That's far more inexcuseable than expecting the offense to throw up 30 points.
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
the defense got some stops. It also let up a Hail Mary that absolutely crushed the team. That's far more inexcuseable than expecting the offense to throw up 30 points.
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
Agree. McAdoo did a great job last year and proved that he is a Head Coach, not just an "offense guy". He coaches the whole team and puts thm in position to win, and is not wedded to an ideology.
the defense got some stops. It also let up a Hail Mary that absolutely crushed the team. That's far more inexcuseable than expecting the offense to throw up 30 points.
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
It was. My problem is, why is the team one dimensional? That's my whole issue.
The 2015 Giants offense could have hung with Green Bay, arguably with less players on offense than what we had last year. They scored over 30 points 7 times in 2015. They scored over 20 points in all but three games that season.
The 2016 Giants not only never scored 30 points, they only made it to 20 points in 7 games.
What happened that made them so one dimensional? That's what I can't wrap my head around.
was an extremely disappointing and desultory performance that is not at all completely excused by the fact that this is preseason.
There are legitimate concerns after two games that the OL is no better than last year. We have struggled to move the ball, and have no touchdowns. We are the second worst rushing team in the league since 2011. Only Jacksonville is worse.
Aside from Pugh, our guards and tackles don't seem to have quick enough feet. Flowers is still resorting to choke holds to compensate for his inability to handle speed rushers. Richburg also gets pushed back into pocket. We seem to have a hard time picking up simple stunts.
I assume there isn't much veteran OL help, but I wouldn't be surprised if we pick up someone after final cuts. Packaging some players we intend to cut for a veteran OL might also be a possibility.
In the interim, I think we should consider moving Pugh to LT, and Flowers to either LG or RG, with Gettis at the other spot. I'm inclined to cut Jerry, and probably Fluker, although I agree that won't happen. But at least one should not be on the final roster. Until we solve this problem, teams will just continue blitzing and stunting.
The backup QB situation is also concerning. Everybody knows we're finished if Eli is out for a significant period of time. But we hope that our backup QB could at least carry us for a few games. Right now, I have no confidence that Johnson or Smith could do so.
The defense of course was excellent. Munson has played well.
wasn't dominant. They had a lot of problems running the ball, had little at TE and weren't good in short yardage conversions.
What they did have was the luxury of playing from behind and they HAD to try and score.
I don't know if it is being purposely glossed over to fit a narrative, but last year's team was better off when the offense minimized mistakes and played close to the vest. It wasn't ideal, but I believe if you tried to open up things and we took sacks or gave up turnovers, that we'd have had a worst record.
McAdoo coached to the team's strength, not too unlike what Denver did the year before.
Statistically speaking, the offense was terrible vs. 2015. In actual play, the differences weren't that stark. They just weren't called on to have to throw 50+ times or play from double-digit deficits for 3/4ths of a game.
It's great the Giants sucked! And it's OK the first string offense had their asses handed to them for the entire first half, because the 2nd half was played by guys we knew were going to suck anyway!
.
Do you truly believe the Browns are a better team than the Giants? That if they played ten times in 2017, the Browns hold serve or impose their will on the Giants?
last night actually had an impact on some of you? Seriously?
wasn't dominant. They had a lot of problems running the ball, had little at TE and weren't good in short yardage conversions.
What they did have was the luxury of playing from behind and they HAD to try and score.
I don't know if it is being purposely glossed over to fit a narrative, but last year's team was better off when the offense minimized mistakes and played close to the vest. It wasn't ideal, but I believe if you tried to open up things and we took sacks or gave up turnovers, that we'd have had a worst record.
McAdoo coached to the team's strength, not too unlike what Denver did the year before.
Statistically speaking, the offense was terrible vs. 2015. In actual play, the differences weren't that stark. They just weren't called on to have to throw 50+ times or play from double-digit deficits for 3/4ths of a game.
I agree with your point about playing to the team's strength. I also believe that not doing that would have resulted in a worse record.
I still just can't understand the proverbial cliff the offense fell off in between 2015 and 2016.
I may be wrong, but I think that playing from behind in 2015 thing isn't true. I remember a stat from the 2015 season, and somebody could double check this... I believe the 2015 Giants lost something like 6 or 7 games where they had the lead with under 4 minutes to go.
that HCs around the NFL have openly admitted to calling plays in the preseason that are doomed to fail. Did you forget that or even let that FACT even register?
Again, HCs in the NFL have openly acknowledged that they will instruct the QB to run the play even if it's certain to fail.
Read that last sentence over and over again until it sinks in.
I can't believe how worked up some of you get over this garbage.
that they were scoring in garbage time when the other team had put it on cruise control.
If that stat I posted above is accurate, then that's not the case. The offense was scoring when it had to, not because the other team already had it in the bag.
was easily the most overrated NYG offense in my lifetime. I stand by that. IT didn't close games. It didn't win many games. It scored points sometimes. It piled up yardage at times. And it won 12 games over two seasons. Whenever the chips were down, the offense folded faster than a poker hand of 2-7.
So last year comes along. Everyone just expects the offense to go bananas even though there was only one legit WR on the team. No RB talent AT ALL. None. An average at best OL that lost its best player for half the season. NO professional TEs AT ALL. That offense. So what did the offense do? IT struggled after playing well through the first 3 games. It struggled to pile up big numbers. It struggled to run the ball over most of the year. But what did the offense do? It closed games. When the games were tight in the 2nd half, I can think of about 4-5 instances where that so called garbage offense delivered a TD drive or FG drives needed to win a game. It even ran the ball down the stretch of a few games which led to victories.
The Giants went 11-5 last year. Eli found ways to win games last year that he found ways to lose in 14-15. Call it what you will. McAdoo grew into his job last year. Eli learned how to win again last year. Let's see what they do in 2017. Again, people need to fucking forget about 2014 and 2015. Those seasons were fucking disgusting. Those offenses were overrated and misleading. This team is different. New HC. New players. Let's see if this offense grows in 2017 before you condemn it. It's not growing out of the ashes of 2015. IT's building from a different place.
I'm just cranky and a little hungover from staying up late and watching last night.
I'm hopeful that the offense can get it together and do their part to help the defense continue to win games.
I'm still not adjusted to the "new look" Giants I guess.
The team was one way for over a decade, and now it's like the polar opposite of that. I guess I'm still trying to wrap my head around the new philosophy.
was easily the most overrated NYG offense in my lifetime. I stand by that. IT didn't close games. It didn't win many games. It scored points sometimes. It piled up yardage at times. And it won 12 games over two seasons. Whenever the chips were down, the offense folded faster than a poker hand of 2-7.
So last year comes along. Everyone just expects the offense to go bananas even though there was only one legit WR on the team. No RB talent AT ALL. None. An average at best OL that lost its best player for half the season. NO professional TEs AT ALL. That offense. So what did the offense do? IT struggled after playing well through the first 3 games. It struggled to pile up big numbers. It struggled to run the ball over most of the year. But what did the offense do? It closed games. When the games were tight in the 2nd half, I can think of about 4-5 instances where that so called garbage offense delivered a TD drive or FG drives needed to win a game. It even ran the ball down the stretch of a few games which led to victories.
The Giants went 11-5 last year. Eli found ways to win games last year that he found ways to lose in 14-15. Call it what you will. McAdoo grew into his job last year. Eli learned how to win again last year. Let's see what they do in 2017. Again, people need to fucking forget about 2014 and 2015. Those seasons were fucking disgusting. Those offenses were overrated and misleading. This team is different. New HC. New players. Let's see if this offense grows in 2017 before you condemn it. It's not growing out of the ashes of 2015. IT's building from a different place.
I actually agree with you, and that's kind of what I just wrote. I just need to get used to it.
don't you think it's possible that teams finally figured out how to stop the Giants (Beckham) offense? From 14-15 all the Giants had was Beckham. That was it yet they found ways to score and produce. Is it remotely possible that the chicken was coming home to roost? That even if Coughlin had stayed and coached the team in 2016, this good ship loli-pop offense was going to sink just a bit?
The personnel wasn't that good in 14-15. IT wasn't that good last year. We were all a bit fooled. I know I was. But looking back, the offense struggling at times last year makes a ton of sense. It was basically quick strikes to Beckham and Shepard and pray for rain.
dude you are romanticizing the 2015 offense. They would have gone on the road against a good team and played well??? BAsed on what? Don't conjure up stats. Conjure up your actual gut feeling. Conjure up logic. The 2015 Giants couldn't beat anyone worth their salt. I could see them scoring a few TDs early only to blow the lead and then the offense would remain in neutral the rest of the game.
You're acting like the 14-15 offenses carried the Giants to actual victory. No, not all their production came in garbage time but they scored points in a losing effort time and time again. They weren't very good. Period. That offense was the epitome of average and with little staying power. It was 1980s AFC style. IT sucked.
dude you are romanticizing the 2015 offense. They would have gone on the road against a good team and played well??? BAsed on what? Don't conjure up stats. Conjure up your actual gut feeling. Conjure up logic. The 2015 Giants couldn't beat anyone worth their salt. I could see them scoring a few TDs early only to blow the lead and then the offense would remain in neutral the rest of the game.
You're acting like the 14-15 offenses carried the Giants to actual victory. No, not all their production came in garbage time but they scored points in a losing effort time and time again. They weren't very good. Period. That offense was the epitome of average and with little staying power. It was 1980s AFC style. IT sucked.
They took the lead on the 13-0 Carolina Panthers (6th best defense in the NFL with Josh Norman) with under 2 minutes to play, after being down 21 points in the 4th quarter, who nearly had an undefeated regular season and made it to the Superbowl. Until the defense folded like a cheap suit and allowed Cam and company to effortlessly move into field goal range for the game winner as time expired.
don't get me wrong. I have concerns too. We all do. I just can't base things on 2014 and 2015 anymore. After Washington week 3 last year I told myself to put 2016 in a vacuum. To treat the season as new. What was done was done. I knew there were gonna be tough times ahead with road games at GB and Minny lurking. All I wanted was the 2016 team to learn how to win again. In my eyes, it wasn't about stats anymore. It was about an identity. The Giants had to win games last year. HAd to.
Now we see how this team responds to more pressure and tougher games. The talent has been upgraded. The HC has a year under his belt. Talk to me in January. Until then I will cautiously hope (expect) this team to mature and progress off of LAST season. Not 2014. Not 2015. Not 2007. New team. New players. No era. What happened in 2015 means next to nothing in my view. I know McAdoo can call an offense. I saw him do it for two years. That's how he got the HC job. Now win big games in January. I couldn't care less about stats.
Remember when we all hated Gilbride and wanted him out
Read here how horrific the offense was - obviously. Read how bad Geno and Johnson played, as expected.
Then I read they had the ball on the 3 and 9 yard lines and an int by Geno and a fumble by Gallman killed the drives. Read that Shepard was holding the ball like a loaf of bread and was stripped.... So two turnovers inside the 10 yardline...
Eli was 10 of 14 for 80 yds in about 1/3 of the game? That really isn't that bad after 2 three and outs on the 1st two possessions.
Sloppy pre-season play and losing Beckham early are not conducive to scoring.
Not really time for panic, yet.
But the fact is, the offense has completely fallen off a cliff since McAdoo, an offensive guy, has taken over as HC. We have a championship caliber defense right now, and the offense was a hindrance last year, and looks like it will be again this year.
We can't run the ball. We can't pass protect. Doesn't matter what we have at skill positions if we can't do that.
We got manhandled by the Cleveland Browns last night. The Cleveland Browns offense was more effective than ours, and they were going against our defense.
People scratch their heads and wonder "gee, McAdoo was such a great coordinator, yet now he's still calling the plays and we can't do anything, what happened?" Even though it makes people react like vampires getting doused with holy water, the answer is simple. That was mainly Coughlin's offense he was running! How else can you explain the offense going completely stagnant after McAdoo took over Head Coach? The players were all the same when Coughlin was head coach, how did we get so much more out of them? We went from 6th in the NFL in scoring to 26th after the switch.
He managed the game well, I'll give him that. That's great. But he's an offensive guy, and I want to see some damn offense. We are completely WASTING the end of Eli's career. This is unacceptable.
But the fact is, the offense has completely fallen off a cliff since McAdoo, an offensive guy, has taken over as HC. We have a championship caliber defense right now, and the offense was a hindrance last year, and looks like it will be again this year.
We can't run the ball. We can't pass protect. Doesn't matter what we have at skill positions if we can't do that.
We got manhandled by the Cleveland Browns last night. The Cleveland Browns offense was more effective than ours, and they were going against our defense.
People scratch their heads and wonder "gee, McAdoo was such a great coordinator, yet now he's still calling the plays and we can't do anything, what happened?" Even though it makes people react like vampires getting doused with holy water, the answer is simple. That was mainly Coughlin's offense he was running! How else can you explain the offense going completely stagnant after McAdoo took over Head Coach? The players were all the same when Coughlin was head coach, how did we get so much more out of them? We went from 6th in the NFL in scoring to 26th after the switch.
He managed the game well, I'll give him that. That's great. But he's an offensive guy, and I want to see some damn offense. We are completely WASTING the end of Eli's career. This is unacceptable.
I think that vampires and holy water thing is a myth.
We got manhandled by the Cleveland Browns last night. The Cleveland Browns offense was more effective than ours, and they were going against our defense.
We are completely WASTING the end of Eli's career. This is unacceptable.
If scoring 7 points is being manhandled, then I'll need a definition of good defense.
I am also tired of hearing about wasting Eli's career. Eli has more than a little to do with the Giants offense.
I would like to blame the CBA for lack of practice opportunities when they are trying to put together a cohesive line. Stupid mentality, limiting practice time.
what works they keep, what doesnt they scrap, also remember there is no gameplanning for an opponent, it is mostly just running what they want to run...
also there are no adjustments being made or anything like that, they stick to what they wanted to run in that particular game and run iy no mattet what...
Second of all, the Browns front 7 is terrific.
McAdoo not the answer after losing a couple of preseason games? After winning 11 in year one? That's a stretch.
I actually like McAdoo as HC though. He showed me a lot last year., has they nasty Parcells style streak, not afraid to call people out.
It's about Eli getting crushed within the first three plays of the game on a stunt right up the middle, untouched.
Second of all, the Browns front 7 is terrific.
McAdoo not the answer after losing a couple of preseason games? After winning 11 in year one? That's a stretch.
We were sold on McAdoo being Head Coach based on his offensive prowess. That's why we ALL (myself included) wanted him to take over as head coach. Based on what he had supposedly done for our offense in 2014 and 2015.
The offense has been completely stagnant since he took over. That can't be denied.
He coached a team with very little offensive talent last season to an 11-5 record and a playoff game that could have had a much different result if players (receivers) made plays.
Come on.
what works they keep, what doesnt they scrap, also remember there is no gameplanning for an opponent, it is mostly just running what they want to run...
also there are no adjustments being made or anything like that, they stick to what they wanted to run in that particular game and run iy no mattet what...
and their objectives are surely different from the regular season. For example, wouldn't it make sense for them to run poor-performing plays repeatedly?
For all we know the coaches may be somewhat pleased at this point.
BTW, I'm not much of a football analyst but Flowers looked OK last night.
It can be argued that the offense was stagnant (for the year he's been head coach), but it can also be argued that as the HC, he stuck to the goal of putting the team in the best position to win. It isn't just happenstance that we closed out games last year, in part by minimizing mistakes on offense and controlling field position.
It's sort of like the OL discussion - People go apeshit over the unit being below average, but every team either has a subpar unit or they end up having a bunch of mediocre units. It's a reality today. But we don't focus on the DB's being one of the best in the league. We don't focus on continued excellent DE play - we say things like the GM should be fired for not improving the OL, as if that point alone is the only thing that matters.
I don't think we've seen McAdoo's offense yet. Last year he lost his FB and had little at WR outside of Beckham and no TE presence to stretch the field.
But hey, after preseason game #2, I guess many of you already know what the offense will look like.
Hey man, if anything, I've been consistent. I was ripping him last year during the season, because even as we were racking up wins, you could just see the writing on the wall with offense.
Tell me you didn't know we were in trouble heading to Green Bay, not being able to break the 20 point barrier for 5 straight games heading in. It was just a sense of when, not if, it was going to fall apart on offense.
Quote:
I like you as a poster, but you seem like you have been waiting for the opportunity to rip McAdoo (it's hard to do that at 11-5), but the second preseason game in you pounce. The offense has been bad. Let's see how it plays out. I do miss the Coughlin/Gilbride push the ball down the field philosophy, but let's see what happens.
Hey man, if anything, I've been consistent. I was ripping him last year during the season, because even as we were racking up wins, you could just see the writing on the wall with offense.
Tell me you didn't know we were in trouble heading to Green Bay, not being able to break the 20 point barrier for 5 straight games heading in. It was just a sense of when, not if, it was going to fall apart on offense.
What's your solution right now then?
It can be argued that the offense was stagnant (for the year he's been head coach), but it can also be argued that as the HC, he stuck to the goal of putting the team in the best position to win. It isn't just happenstance that we closed out games last year, in part by minimizing mistakes on offense and controlling field position.
It's sort of like the OL discussion - People go apeshit over the unit being below average, but every team either has a subpar unit or they end up having a bunch of mediocre units. It's a reality today. But we don't focus on the DB's being one of the best in the league. We don't focus on continued excellent DE play - we say things like the GM should be fired for not improving the OL, as if that point alone is the only thing that matters.
I don't think we've seen McAdoo's offense yet. Last year he lost his FB and had little at WR outside of Beckham and no TE presence to stretch the field.
But hey, after preseason game #2, I guess many of you already know what the offense will look like.
My problem with intentionally putting the offense in a shell is that when you do that, you can't just flick the switch and take them out of it when you need it. Like Green Bay. Everybody on this board knew we were going to have to score over 20 points to beat Green Bay. We got smoked.
Not shocking that we'd lose a road playoff game, even if we played excellent on offense.
Not shocking that we'd lose a road playoff game, even if we played excellent on offense.
Not to start the game. It got away in the second half, but our defense was stifling Rogers and hitting him a lot in the first quarter/half. The offense couldn't capitalize, Rogers adjusted, and off it went.
I think I'll wait as I always do to allow the OL to get their 60-70 or more of consistent snaps a game where synergy is built over a period of of several games before ATTEMPTING to assess where we are..I will NOT go by last year and I will NOT go by preseason.
There's a reason why Parcells et al have said it takes around 4 regular season games to "see what you have."
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
Agree. McAdoo did a great job last year and proved that he is a Head Coach, not just an "offense guy". He coaches the whole team and puts thm in position to win, and is not wedded to an ideology.
McAdoo took a one dimensional team to the playoffs. To some that would be considered one hell of a job. Actually, to most that SHOULD be considered one hell of a job.
It was. My problem is, why is the team one dimensional? That's my whole issue.
The 2015 Giants offense could have hung with Green Bay, arguably with less players on offense than what we had last year. They scored over 30 points 7 times in 2015. They scored over 20 points in all but three games that season.
The 2016 Giants not only never scored 30 points, they only made it to 20 points in 7 games.
What happened that made them so one dimensional? That's what I can't wrap my head around.
You pair the 2015 offense with the 2016 defense and you have a championship caliber team.
I just can't understand why that didn't/couldn't happen.
There are legitimate concerns after two games that the OL is no better than last year. We have struggled to move the ball, and have no touchdowns. We are the second worst rushing team in the league since 2011. Only Jacksonville is worse.
Aside from Pugh, our guards and tackles don't seem to have quick enough feet. Flowers is still resorting to choke holds to compensate for his inability to handle speed rushers. Richburg also gets pushed back into pocket. We seem to have a hard time picking up simple stunts.
I assume there isn't much veteran OL help, but I wouldn't be surprised if we pick up someone after final cuts. Packaging some players we intend to cut for a veteran OL might also be a possibility.
In the interim, I think we should consider moving Pugh to LT, and Flowers to either LG or RG, with Gettis at the other spot. I'm inclined to cut Jerry, and probably Fluker, although I agree that won't happen. But at least one should not be on the final roster. Until we solve this problem, teams will just continue blitzing and stunting.
The backup QB situation is also concerning. Everybody knows we're finished if Eli is out for a significant period of time. But we hope that our backup QB could at least carry us for a few games. Right now, I have no confidence that Johnson or Smith could do so.
The defense of course was excellent. Munson has played well.
What they did have was the luxury of playing from behind and they HAD to try and score.
I don't know if it is being purposely glossed over to fit a narrative, but last year's team was better off when the offense minimized mistakes and played close to the vest. It wasn't ideal, but I believe if you tried to open up things and we took sacks or gave up turnovers, that we'd have had a worst record.
McAdoo coached to the team's strength, not too unlike what Denver did the year before.
Statistically speaking, the offense was terrible vs. 2015. In actual play, the differences weren't that stark. They just weren't called on to have to throw 50+ times or play from double-digit deficits for 3/4ths of a game.
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Do you truly believe the Browns are a better team than the Giants? That if they played ten times in 2017, the Browns hold serve or impose their will on the Giants?
last night actually had an impact on some of you? Seriously?
Every frickin year.
What they did have was the luxury of playing from behind and they HAD to try and score.
I don't know if it is being purposely glossed over to fit a narrative, but last year's team was better off when the offense minimized mistakes and played close to the vest. It wasn't ideal, but I believe if you tried to open up things and we took sacks or gave up turnovers, that we'd have had a worst record.
McAdoo coached to the team's strength, not too unlike what Denver did the year before.
Statistically speaking, the offense was terrible vs. 2015. In actual play, the differences weren't that stark. They just weren't called on to have to throw 50+ times or play from double-digit deficits for 3/4ths of a game.
I agree with your point about playing to the team's strength. I also believe that not doing that would have resulted in a worse record.
I still just can't understand the proverbial cliff the offense fell off in between 2015 and 2016.
I may be wrong, but I think that playing from behind in 2015 thing isn't true. I remember a stat from the 2015 season, and somebody could double check this... I believe the 2015 Giants lost something like 6 or 7 games where they had the lead with under 4 minutes to go.
Again, HCs in the NFL have openly acknowledged that they will instruct the QB to run the play even if it's certain to fail.
Read that last sentence over and over again until it sinks in.
I can't believe how worked up some of you get over this garbage.
If that stat I posted above is accurate, then that's not the case. The offense was scoring when it had to, not because the other team already had it in the bag.
You think McAdoo is no good because his offense "regressed" but the entire team got better on his watch?
So last year comes along. Everyone just expects the offense to go bananas even though there was only one legit WR on the team. No RB talent AT ALL. None. An average at best OL that lost its best player for half the season. NO professional TEs AT ALL. That offense. So what did the offense do? IT struggled after playing well through the first 3 games. It struggled to pile up big numbers. It struggled to run the ball over most of the year. But what did the offense do? It closed games. When the games were tight in the 2nd half, I can think of about 4-5 instances where that so called garbage offense delivered a TD drive or FG drives needed to win a game. It even ran the ball down the stretch of a few games which led to victories.
The Giants went 11-5 last year. Eli found ways to win games last year that he found ways to lose in 14-15. Call it what you will. McAdoo grew into his job last year. Eli learned how to win again last year. Let's see what they do in 2017. Again, people need to fucking forget about 2014 and 2015. Those seasons were fucking disgusting. Those offenses were overrated and misleading. This team is different. New HC. New players. Let's see if this offense grows in 2017 before you condemn it. It's not growing out of the ashes of 2015. IT's building from a different place.
I'm hopeful that the offense can get it together and do their part to help the defense continue to win games.
I'm still not adjusted to the "new look" Giants I guess.
The team was one way for over a decade, and now it's like the polar opposite of that. I guess I'm still trying to wrap my head around the new philosophy.
So last year comes along. Everyone just expects the offense to go bananas even though there was only one legit WR on the team. No RB talent AT ALL. None. An average at best OL that lost its best player for half the season. NO professional TEs AT ALL. That offense. So what did the offense do? IT struggled after playing well through the first 3 games. It struggled to pile up big numbers. It struggled to run the ball over most of the year. But what did the offense do? It closed games. When the games were tight in the 2nd half, I can think of about 4-5 instances where that so called garbage offense delivered a TD drive or FG drives needed to win a game. It even ran the ball down the stretch of a few games which led to victories.
The Giants went 11-5 last year. Eli found ways to win games last year that he found ways to lose in 14-15. Call it what you will. McAdoo grew into his job last year. Eli learned how to win again last year. Let's see what they do in 2017. Again, people need to fucking forget about 2014 and 2015. Those seasons were fucking disgusting. Those offenses were overrated and misleading. This team is different. New HC. New players. Let's see if this offense grows in 2017 before you condemn it. It's not growing out of the ashes of 2015. IT's building from a different place.
I actually agree with you, and that's kind of what I just wrote. I just need to get used to it.
You think McAdoo is no good because his offense "regressed" but the entire team got better on his watch?
That's exactly what he's thinking. And it's ridiculous.
I pray Mcadoo is remembered as another Brian Billick. Please make it so.
The personnel wasn't that good in 14-15. IT wasn't that good last year. We were all a bit fooled. I know I was. But looking back, the offense struggling at times last year makes a ton of sense. It was basically quick strikes to Beckham and Shepard and pray for rain.
You're acting like the 14-15 offenses carried the Giants to actual victory. No, not all their production came in garbage time but they scored points in a losing effort time and time again. They weren't very good. Period. That offense was the epitome of average and with little staying power. It was 1980s AFC style. IT sucked.
You're acting like the 14-15 offenses carried the Giants to actual victory. No, not all their production came in garbage time but they scored points in a losing effort time and time again. They weren't very good. Period. That offense was the epitome of average and with little staying power. It was 1980s AFC style. IT sucked.
They took the lead on the 13-0 Carolina Panthers (6th best defense in the NFL with Josh Norman) with under 2 minutes to play, after being down 21 points in the 4th quarter, who nearly had an undefeated regular season and made it to the Superbowl. Until the defense folded like a cheap suit and allowed Cam and company to effortlessly move into field goal range for the game winner as time expired.
Now we see how this team responds to more pressure and tougher games. The talent has been upgraded. The HC has a year under his belt. Talk to me in January. Until then I will cautiously hope (expect) this team to mature and progress off of LAST season. Not 2014. Not 2015. Not 2007. New team. New players. No era. What happened in 2015 means next to nothing in my view. I know McAdoo can call an offense. I saw him do it for two years. That's how he got the HC job. Now win big games in January. I couldn't care less about stats.
And again, same scenario, the defense allowed Tom Brady to march down the field and kick the game winner as time expired.