I keep seeing posters incessantly blame McAdoo and the playcalling for the offensive struggles.
Maybe I'm naive, but what offense can you successfully run when your offensive line can't open holes for your backs and you're forced to be one-dimensional? Then, when we run pass plays, the QB has about 2 seconds before the pocket crumbles or a rusher gets around the edge.
Is the guy supposed to trick opposing defenses for 4 quarters somehow?
You have to be able to block in this league. It's as simple as that.
Look at the Cowboys. Rookie QB? Doesn't matter. Stud RB suspended? Doesn't matter. They still open holes in the run game and they still pass protect for Prescott and give him loads of time to throw. This isn't something Jason Garrett is doing that Ben McAdoo isn't. Garrett simply has an excellent line and it's the foundation of his football team. We don't have that luxury.
Our entire offense is already built around getting the ball out quick. It's not like the coach is running 5 and 7 step drops with long-developing routes like we were in 2013 when we couldn't pass protect and were getting Eli fucking killed by doing that.
There's really not an offense you can run if you can't run the football or pass block. Our linemen are getting pushed back into the pocket, they're not opening holes for the runners - and that's the coaches fault... why?
Don't you think if we could actually run the football and pass protect that our offense would be pretty damn good? I do.
But yet, I keep seeing comments blaming the playcalling or the offensive scheme.
If there are offenses in this league that are proficient without being able to run the football or hold blocks, I'd love to know where they are.
basically they have a sript on what they want to try and that is what they stick to, there is no adjustments or things like that...
There's a reason why Parcells et al have said it takes around 4 regular season games to "see what you have."
Solari - Yes, we have inside zone runs in the playbook, as well as traps.
Q - Ok, what about those outside zone runs?
Solari- yes, as I said, the inside zone runs we do practice.
Q - OK, Let me try this, 1,2,3...what is the next number?
Solari - Grapes. Mainly grapes. I mean, if you can get a nice honeydew melon in season, that is great, but, you know, its hit and miss, they can taste fairly flat. Grapes, grapes are always the same, you go to the supermarket, same white or red grapes, and you can eat the right out of the bag with one hand if you want.
Q -----------------------------------
I find that most people who cry about play calling have never strapped on a helmet.
The problems running the ball started before McAdoo came on the scene. It's a talent problem.
"Whereas there were probably great offensive linesmen in round one that could play guard in the NFL, Engram has such a cuter tush"
The use of "whereas" can really gain you points
How did our full back perform last night? That may help to some extent?! Fluker can help in the run game, but is an adventure pass blocking. Without a trade for another lineman, we're stuck with this line and we will have to hope that chemistry and blocking from TEs, WRs and FB can help. I've seen nothing to this point that would give me any confidence in that happening however. I'm still holding out hope, because that's all we have right now.
of course it could, you are not watching tape to find tendencies of the other team, you are not game planning for what the other team likes to do...
eli watches hours and hours of tape leading up to a regular season game to get resdy for a defense, if he watches no tape you dont think that has an effect?
eli's best attribute is reading ehat the defense is going to do before the snap, if he doesnt watch tape how is he going to do that?
when you are just runnign things to try them out how are you going to be succesful...
would i like i to see better executiong? absolutely
And Jerry shouldn't receive a pass. People want to heap praise on his FA acquisitions on the defense, but IMO, anyone can buy the top rated FAs.
If you want steak, then you shop for steak. If you want Filet Mignon, then it isn't so hard to find when you shop in the section for Filet Mignon. It is much more difficult to find Filet stashed in the stew meat section.
People will be quick to chime in that Jerry hasn't ignored the OL and had allocated numerous draft resources. Either his scouting department isn't very good or his coaching staff isn't very good. Either way, he's the GM and should take responsibility for the failure.
But as it stands now, after two games the Giants are the only team in NFL that has not been able to reach the endzone.
After the way this offense finished the season last year why would you be comfortable with how things are going?
He came in and installed short drops. More quick passes. Eli's stats for much better as all QBs do in the WCO. Now he's infallable and if anyone questions anything coaching related w X's and O's nothing is ever his fault.
Eli's numbers also got much better since OBJ got to the Giants. I'd suggest his mere presence on the field helps.
Great coaches scheme around weaknesses and make it work. He may be a good HC but as an offensive mind and strategist I'd suggest he's pretty unproven. He's probably one of the least qualified OCs in the league. And yes. He's thE OC Not Sullivan. Mara and Tiche fell in love w this guy. Great. But he's got a loaded defense and all he needs to be is a decent play caller. Not sure he has that in him.
It's also never on thing. Shitty OL. NFL DCs getting to k ow his offense and patterned better. So You can bet your ass the opposite teams know him a lot better now after 3 years. The assumptions on how good he is made about this guy as a offensive mind always seemed misplaced.
It's early but it looks like he and Reese are going to rely on Spags and that D nist as much as they did last year
basically they have a sript on what they want to try and that is what they stick to, there is no adjustments or things like that...
We are talking about the offensive line here, the same offensive line that was clearly the weak link of our team last year. Game planning has nothing to do with blocking the man in front of you.
I think people like to believe that offensive lines need all this time to gel, but when it's not right, it's not right.
But as it stands now, after two games the Giants are the only team in NFL that has not been able to reach the endzone.
After the way this offense finished the season last year why would you be comfortable with how things are going?
has offense really been that high in preseason from other teams?
1st teams have barely played, how can you make any conclusions from 2 quarters of work?...eli has played 4 series
Quote:
coaches use preseason as live practices because they cant do those things in practice...
basically they have a sript on what they want to try and that is what they stick to, there is no adjustments or things like that...
We are talking about the offensive line here, the same offensive line that was clearly the weak link of our team last year. Game planning has nothing to do with blocking the man in front of you.
I think people like to believe that offensive lines need all this time to gel, but when it's not right, it's not right.
game planning has nothing to do with the offensive line?
so the stunt that caused the 1st sack was man on man?
I mean fuck me - I come to this board and see people talk about Jason Garrett as he's a good coach, and he's tallied two playoff wins in the time TC has come and gone.
McAdoo takes a one-dimensional team to the playoffs in year 1 and there are some people here who talk about him like he's pretty bad.
I'd like to point out the complete idiocy of that thinking, but I don't think people fucking care. They think they are right, despite evidence showing they aren't.
giants won a super bowl with a terrible offensive line and no running game...
the patriots have a great offense with no running game...
the seahawks and packers have god awful offensive lines...
the giants are not the only team trying to figure out their offe sive line
the patriots have a great offense with no running game...
the seahawks and packers have god awful offensive lines...
the giants are not the only team trying to figure out their offe sive line
...keep drinking that Kool Aid.
the patriots have a great offense with no running game...
the seahawks and packers have god awful offensive lines...
the giants are not the only team trying to figure out their offe sive line
...keep drinking that Kool Aid.
offensive line play across the board is awful, titans and cowboys have the 2 best offensive lines in football...
russell wilson and aaron rodgers run for their lives...
If this happens in game 1, then we have an issue. But, for the moment, I am concerned but not panicky. let's see how it all shakes out. It's not just Flowers...Jerry, in my mind, is awful and I really haven't focused on Hart too much. Richburg has been average so far but it is pre-season.
I can't tell you how many times, back in the 70s, we would look great in pre-season only to be terrible once the shooting started for real.
it is more like 2 quarters the other 6 were backups
1. I see people still saying it's his fault because he's the one choosing who plays. Do you really feel he has better options at his disposal?
Sure, you could say maybe Fluker deserves more of a look with the 1's - you could say Chad Wheeler does as well. But if you recall, McAdoo gave Wheeler a shot with the 1's in practice a couple weeks ago and Wheeler immediately committed a penalty. He obviously wasn't pleased.
2. I still don't understand the opinion that we could have all=pro offensive linemen and this offense would still struggle. You really believe that if Eli had more time in the pocket, he wouldn't be picking defenses apart with these weapons? You think if there were holes to run though, these guys wouldn't be able to move the ball? I don't agree with or believe that at all.
3. If it's schematic, what do you suggest he do? Employing a vertical passing attack is definitely not the answer when you can't pass protect well (again, see 2013...)
4. Is Solari to blame? Are these players being coached poorly? I can't answer this - but I tend to think some of the guys on this offensive line simply aren't all that good.
5. Running the football was a problem before McAdoo was even hired as the OC. 3.5 YPC in 2013, 3.5 YPC in 2011. This isn't something that suddenly became a problem when he was hired. It has coincided directly with the degradation of the OL.
6. The idea that he should "open up the offense" - what does this mean exactly? If we're not run blocking or pass blocking well, how do you do this?
Another problem is that we don't have one good running back on the team, not one, a bad offensive line, with a coach calling the game totally vanilla, with not a single good running back on the team makes for what we saw last night, unwatchable football.
We already knew John Jerry was a trainwreck.
We already knew Bobby Hart was in over his head and just doesn't have what it takes to be a good right tackle.
But what in the hell has happened to Weston Richburg? That has me more confused than anything.
hard to go no huddle for an entire game, wears out your defense...
i do think if yeaterday was a real game we would of saw ellison and a back in the back field to help block a little bit because greg williams was all out blitzing...
preseason though the giants are not going to make adjustments
We already knew John Jerry was a trainwreck.
We already knew Bobby Hart was in over his head and just doesn't have what it takes to be a good right tackle.
But what in the hell has happened to Weston Richburg? That has me more confused than anything.
My guess is that Richburg struggled a lot last year because of the torn tendons in his hand. I think he needs to get stronger but wasn't able to really properly do that because he had to rehab the injury.
I don't think he was ever an "elite" OC or as good as PFF made him out to be in 2015 - but I do think he was and is better than what we saw last year and what we've seen so far this year.
Giant teams in modern history with a spending spree while
high round picks either don't pan out or we let a decent
starting DT leave forcing us to use yet another high round
pick . I wasn't crazy about the draft Engram looks to be a fine pick but again the #2 went to replace a starter on
defense . If Webb is not the heir apparent then I think we did a disservice by ignoring the O-line .
Will we watch the defense wilt again as we lost JPP and so went the pass rush .This year the schedule is a lot tougher . We could have had Dion Dawkins in the 2nd and
Donta Foremen in the 3rd . Dawkins will be a starter for
the Bills before seasons end Foreman is looking like a
very good back with power speed and hands .
We shall see but when you can't score TD's your not
gonna go all the way .
I mean fuck me - I come to this board and see people talk about Jason Garrett as he's a good coach, and he's tallied two playoff wins in the time TC has come and gone.
McAdoo takes a one-dimensional team to the playoffs in year 1 and there are some people here who talk about him like he's pretty bad.
I'd like to point out the complete idiocy of that thinking, but I don't think people fucking care. They think they are right, despite evidence showing they aren't.
Give the devil his due: Garrett, whom I can't stand, had his #1 qb go down for the count, stuck a 4th round pick in there, went 13-3 and was at least competitive against GB. Garrett did a good job last season.
Phil is right- you can't throw perpetual short patterns in a game without spreading the defense wide or hitting it over the top. That has not sunk into BM yet. Maybe it will come to him. It's the reminders of last season's offense during the preseason that has people concerned. BM's problem this season is there are expectations for a serious run and if those expectations are not met, there could be problems. Will the cries for Spagnuolo, who has his fans, start?
It is preseason and teams that look like dogshit sometimes have come out on fire, so let's not panic yet.
Phil is right- you can't throw perpetual short patterns in a game without spreading the defense wide or hitting it over the top''
This is what leads D to load up and hammer WRs ...who then get injured.
Fix.The.Run.Game. Ergo play action, ergo long ball in the mix.
Honest question. Do you think Jason Garrett's team still goes 13-3 last year if you put Prescott and Elliott behind the NYG OL?
Quote:
...giants won a super bowl with a terrible offensive line and no running game...
the patriots have a great offense with no running game...
the seahawks and packers have god awful offensive lines...
the giants are not the only team trying to figure out their offe sive line
...keep drinking that Kool Aid.
offensive line play across the board is awful, titans and cowboys have the 2 best offensive lines in football...
russell wilson and aaron rodgers run for their lives...
You put Eli's scrambling on par with Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers? That strategy doesn't sound promising.
Quote:
...giants won a super bowl with a terrible offensive line and no running game...
the patriots have a great offense with no running game...
the seahawks and packers have god awful offensive lines...
the giants are not the only team trying to figure out their offe sive line
...keep drinking that Kool Aid.
Aaron Rodgers, I wouldn't say he's running for his life. He gets better protection than Eli.
The Seahawks oline may be on par with ours protecting their qb, but clearly their qb can handle that pressure much better than ours.
And most important, the running game. It's one thing if the offensive line has a difficult time against the run, but clearly, they struggle with pass pro as well.
I will say tho, I'm not worried about them not scoring a td yet, this was Manning first game back, along with obj(hopefully), so that is a very subjective arguement. But the offensive line is and should be a big worry.
offensive line play across the board is awful, titans and cowboys have the 2 best offensive lines in football...
russell wilson and aaron rodgers run for their lives...
- conservative offense
- field position
- strong defense
- positive turnover differential
- excellent game management from McAdoo
This should be the recipe in 2017.
- conservative offense
- field position
- strong defense
- positive turnover differential
- excellent game management from McAdoo
This should be the recipe in 2017.
When 91% of your plays is run out of the same formation, maybe the coaching has something to do with it. Now that we have actual FB's and some talent at TE this year, let's see what McAdoo can do.
We had the same personnel package, not formation. It has gotten fucking ponderous seeing people regurgitate something that isn't true.
There is zero evidence that Brett Jones can man an OG spot on an NFL roster.