I feel like we use preseason games as a joint practice. It doesn't matter what the other team is doing or the situation, we are going to practice things we need to work on. For example, when our first team d was out there, we dropped dlineman into coverage often. I saw JPP in coverage, Vernon in coverage, I even saw our DT's drop into coverage a few times. We aren't going to be doing that as often when the real bullets are flying, but clearly we wanted to work on that in game situation.
Offensively too, we are very vanilla on offense. It just seems like we use these games as a practice as opposed to other team who play to try to win these games.
you can also see eli rarely changing the play
Last night was way more often than normal, IMO. I think they were clearly working on that last night.
I was going to say, they must tell the linemen to accept being pummeled.
Wow, so people can point to "same old same old" the last bunch of years as some indicator of what's to come. It indicates ZERO in terms of predicting what's to come..
"But I was right last preseason about the O (or the D, whatever the case may be), wasn't I?"
Whoopdedoo!!! Such BOLD PREDICTIONS given that you can either be proven RIGHT OR WRONG 50% of the time..Wow, such a harbinger of things to come..
Wow, so people can point to "same old same old" the last bunch of years as some indicator of what's to come. It indicates ZERO in terms of predicting what's to come..
"But I was right last preseason about the O (or the D, whatever the case may be), wasn't I?"
Whoopdedoo!!! Such BOLD PREDICTIONS given that you can either be proven RIGHT OR WRONG 50% of the time..Wow, such a harbinger of things to come..
I don't think a bad preseason is indicative of anything to come in the regular season. I do think, though, when you look good in the preseason it can mean something. We looked amazing in 2008 preseason and that was our best regular season since 1990--another year we looked very good in the preseason. It doesn't matter if you look bad--I agree, but looking good never hurts and can be signs of good things to come.
Wow, so people can point to "same old same old" the last bunch of years as some indicator of what's to come. It indicates ZERO in terms of predicting what's to come..
"But I was right last preseason about the O (or the D, whatever the case may be), wasn't I?"
Whoopdedoo!!! Such BOLD PREDICTIONS given that you can either be proven RIGHT OR WRONG 50% of the time..Wow, such a harbinger of things to come..
I don't think anyone cares what other teams are doing.
When there are certain problem areas with personnel that continue from one season to another and are still clearly visible in the preseason with the same personnel, it is absolutely cause for concern and worthy of discussion.
We call this phenomenon a "trend"
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With limited snaps for starters and no gameplanning, conclusions are drawn here. For me 62 pre-seasons have proven to be nothing more than practice reps and evaluating..
Wow, so people can point to "same old same old" the last bunch of years as some indicator of what's to come. It indicates ZERO in terms of predicting what's to come..
"But I was right last preseason about the O (or the D, whatever the case may be), wasn't I?"
Whoopdedoo!!! Such BOLD PREDICTIONS given that you can either be proven RIGHT OR WRONG 50% of the time..Wow, such a harbinger of things to come..
I don't think a bad preseason is indicative of anything to come in the regular season. I do think, though, when you look good in the preseason it can mean something. We looked amazing in 2008 preseason and that was our best regular season since 1990--another year we looked very good in the preseason. It doesn't matter if you look bad--I agree, but looking good never hurts and can be signs of good things to come.
I would add as an anecdote, back in 2008 we mauled the Browns in the preseason and then had one of our only losses of the regular season to them, losing in a blowout. So there is that, too.
I never mind a win, even a meaningless win. But let's not take our eye off the ball..On paper, I think the OL can and will be better. They just need multiple snaps TOGETHER for a period of time..It may be proven that they suck, but way TOO EARLY to make pronouncements like the board is making..
Eli, OBJ, Marshall, et al in two games have how many snaps? The projected starters on the OL, how many snaps?
Nothing can be gleaned that will predict our future performance..Nothing. It is what it is. Practice..
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With limited snaps for starters and no gameplanning, conclusions are drawn here. For me 62 pre-seasons have proven to be nothing more than practice reps and evaluating..
Wow, so people can point to "same old same old" the last bunch of years as some indicator of what's to come. It indicates ZERO in terms of predicting what's to come..
"But I was right last preseason about the O (or the D, whatever the case may be), wasn't I?"
Whoopdedoo!!! Such BOLD PREDICTIONS given that you can either be proven RIGHT OR WRONG 50% of the time..Wow, such a harbinger of things to come..
I don't think anyone cares what other teams are doing.
When there are certain problem areas with personnel that continue from one season to another and are still clearly visible in the preseason with the same personnel, it is absolutely cause for concern and worthy of discussion.
We call this phenomenon a "trend"
And you would be wrong, imho. There is no trend. They've hardly played together yet. If we're still performing at your substandard level 3-4 games into the season, then fine, we can begin to draw SOME conclusions..Until then, little to nothing can be drawn, imv
there were people bitching last night that the giants let kizer go down the field and scorre completely ignoring the fact that the 2md team defense was in...
also can people stop saying the giants have gone 8 quarters without scoring a td, it is 2 quarters that matters...
also people remember the 4-0 lions that then went 0-16?
i wouldnt say they sucked last night, they didnt run well but the pass pritection was not horrible...
darkwa also on one play had a huge hole and he tripped over his own guys feet, probably would of broke off a 20 yard run
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In comment 13568671 Big Blue '56 said:
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With limited snaps for starters and no gameplanning, conclusions are drawn here. For me 62 pre-seasons have proven to be nothing more than practice reps and evaluating..
Wow, so people can point to "same old same old" the last bunch of years as some indicator of what's to come. It indicates ZERO in terms of predicting what's to come..
"But I was right last preseason about the O (or the D, whatever the case may be), wasn't I?"
Whoopdedoo!!! Such BOLD PREDICTIONS given that you can either be proven RIGHT OR WRONG 50% of the time..Wow, such a harbinger of things to come..
I don't think anyone cares what other teams are doing.
When there are certain problem areas with personnel that continue from one season to another and are still clearly visible in the preseason with the same personnel, it is absolutely cause for concern and worthy of discussion.
We call this phenomenon a "trend"
And you would be wrong, imho. There is no trend. They've hardly played together yet. If we're still performing at your substandard level 3-4 games into the season, then fine, we can begin to draw SOME conclusions..Until then, little to nothing can be drawn, imv
The offensive line has hardly played together yet?
They're meaningless with LIMITED snaps..Even if Eli plays into the 3rd quarter or longer and looks sharp and the OL performs better, it's still rather meaningless..They all need consistent reps over a bunch of regular season games before they get their mojo or at the very least can be reasonably evaluated, imv
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but individual performances aren't meaningless. We've watched Jerry and the OL struggle for 3+ years now and watching those same players continue to lose individual battles just reinforces the biggest concern many have going into the season.
i wouldnt say they sucked last night, they didnt run well but the pass pritection was not horrible...
darkwa also on one play had a huge hole and he tripped over his own guys feet, probably would of broke off a 20 yard run
If its the play I'm thinking of, I think Engram was more at fault as he fell in the hole. A better/good block by EE and it's a huge gain.
Even if you think they've been awful, that's half of a meaningless game of awful to this point.
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In comment 13568712 giants#1 said:
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but individual performances aren't meaningless. We've watched Jerry and the OL struggle for 3+ years now and watching those same players continue to lose individual battles just reinforces the biggest concern many have going into the season.
i wouldnt say they sucked last night, they didnt run well but the pass pritection was not horrible...
darkwa also on one play had a huge hole and he tripped over his own guys feet, probably would of broke off a 20 yard run
If its the play I'm thinking of, I think Engram was more at fault as he fell in the hole. A better/good block by EE and it's a huge gain.
maybe i should watch it again but first look to me was darkwa saw the hole and instead of having patience ram right into the back of engram...
i like darkwa but he seems to trip a lot when there is room to run
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In comment 13568684 Brown Recluse said:
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In comment 13568671 Big Blue '56 said:
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With limited snaps for starters and no gameplanning, conclusions are drawn here. For me 62 pre-seasons have proven to be nothing more than practice reps and evaluating..
Wow, so people can point to "same old same old" the last bunch of years as some indicator of what's to come. It indicates ZERO in terms of predicting what's to come..
"But I was right last preseason about the O (or the D, whatever the case may be), wasn't I?"
Whoopdedoo!!! Such BOLD PREDICTIONS given that you can either be proven RIGHT OR WRONG 50% of the time..Wow, such a harbinger of things to come..
I don't think anyone cares what other teams are doing.
When there are certain problem areas with personnel that continue from one season to another and are still clearly visible in the preseason with the same personnel, it is absolutely cause for concern and worthy of discussion.
We call this phenomenon a "trend"
And you would be wrong, imho. There is no trend. They've hardly played together yet. If we're still performing at your substandard level 3-4 games into the season, then fine, we can begin to draw SOME conclusions..Until then, little to nothing can be drawn, imv
The offensive line has hardly played together yet?
Yes, THIS PRESEASON, that's ALL THAT MATTERS..Last season or previous seasons mean squat..Will Flowers be better or finally get it this year after one true season (First year he played on one leg almost the entire season)? Will Richburg, with use of both arms revert to 2015 form? How will Fluker do under a new coach, system and team? Will Pugh finally be healthy and an important aid to Flowers' development playing alongside him FULL TIME?
How much will Ellison help the OL..How much pressure taken off the OL by having OBJ, SS, and Marshall where stacking the box could be fatal to an opponent? Lots of reasonable questions that may prove to yield average or better results. Or they may suck. But no way am I evaluating them after 5 snaps a piece(hyperbole) per game..
I'll get off the thread now (unless there's a question or this post crosses with someone else's) as my opinions on OTAs, minicamps, preseason are well known and I'll wait until the Dallas opener to get psyched and watch in earnest..
All I will worry about are injuries at this point. Nothing else
I have a feeling you enjoy everything. :)
I have a feeling you enjoy everything. :)
Lol..peace out..:)
This offense looks exactly the same as it always does under McAdoo. Last year's preseason looked just like the regular season. Until proven otherwise this offense stinks.
last year it was odell and eli that was it...
this year you added marshall, shepard 2nd year, engram, ellison, vereen back, that is a lot more weapons...
giants against jets can go out and score 0 points or 50 points and it is all the same it is jist preseason...
you said yourself you dont belive in the wco so you are biased against it, if it looks good you will say it is jjst preaseon, when it looks bad you will say they are going to suck...
Regardless of the plays being called, Jerry and Hart, (and even RIchburg) in particular seem to keep getting pushed into the backfield and aren't gaining any forward leverage.
Flowers hasn't been great, but he's been adequate. He and Pugh seem to be passable for now. The right side of the line really needs to play better, though.
Regardless of the plays being called, Jerry and Hart, (and even RIchburg) in particular seem to keep getting pushed into the backfield and aren't gaining any forward leverage.
Flowers hasn't been great, but he's been adequate. He and Pugh seem to be passable for now. The right side of the line really needs to play better, though.
i dont thjnk pass protection was that bad, eli seemed to have time to go through his progressions, running game was awful any way you slice it
Regardless of the plays being called, Jerry and Hart, (and even RIchburg) in particular seem to keep getting pushed into the backfield and aren't gaining any forward leverage.
Flowers hasn't been great, but he's been adequate. He and Pugh seem to be passable for now. The right side of the line really needs to play better, though.
Agree on Flowers, he really didn't give up much last night. So the anti-Flowers crowd started saying the refs should call him for holding. Amazing. OL players hold all the time. If he doesn't get called, and the refs didn't think he did enough to be called, then its a good block. I will keep repeating, there isn't a Tackle in this league who stands up the DE every time. They all give up pressure sometimes. Its how you re-anchor, or push the DE around the QB (either in front or behind) that matters. Flowers did ok. Jerry and Hart were the weak link
you are not going to see them line up i formation and try to pound the run game, this team is never going to do that no matter how good the line is
Regardless of the plays being called, Jerry and Hart, (and even RIchburg) in particular seem to keep getting pushed into the backfield and aren't gaining any forward leverage.
Flowers hasn't been great, but he's been adequate. He and Pugh seem to be passable for now. The right side of the line really needs to play better, though.
I'm with arc. I get that it's preseason, but the OL was weak link last year & I was hoping to see some major improvements, especially after all this talk about how great of an offseason Flowers & Hart had. It's disconcerting.
You're asking to get Eli killed by employing this philosophy right now.
Go back and watch games from 2013. That's what you're going to see if Ben tries doing this right now.
This is the entire reason he was hired in the first place. Because we were fast-tracking the end of Eli's career right before we hired him.
engram is the key to this i think, he can really stretch the seam, have not seen it yet but i dont think they are moving him around a lot yet...
Wow, so people can point to "same old same old" the last bunch of years as some indicator of what's to come. It indicates ZERO in terms of predicting what's to come..
"But I was right last preseason about the O (or the D, whatever the case may be), wasn't I?"
Whoopdedoo!!! Such BOLD PREDICTIONS given that you can either be proven RIGHT OR WRONG 50% of the time..Wow, such a harbinger of things to come..
There are very uninformed opinions on both side of this debate. Drawing definitive conclusions from perseason is just as silly as dismissing everything you see in totality.
If you'll remember last year, you and some other posters came on this site after Week 1 last year proclaiming to have been vindicated by the Oline's performance against Dallas last year. "It proves preseason is meaningless!!!" Guess what? The preseason last year was a much better predictor of the season than was Game 1.
I guess there is a reason they still play this meaningless scrimmages...
Regardless of the plays being called, Jerry and Hart, (and even RIchburg) in particular seem to keep getting pushed into the backfield and aren't gaining any forward leverage.
Flowers hasn't been great, but he's been adequate. He and Pugh seem to be passable for now. The right side of the line really needs to play better, though.
I do agree with this. I would like to see guys, specifically in the trenches, win 1 on 1 battles.
i take nothing team wise from preaseon, the offense could look fantastic and i would say the exact same thing...
i watch preseason for individual players, i want to see rookies and guys trying to make the team stand out....
to me preseason is a glorified scrimmage, they should do what high school does, 10 plays on offense then switch..
There were a few down field throws last night too, to OBJ on the injury hit, to Marshall who alligator armed it and also ended up hurt. Eli went down the middle trying to hit Engram on a post in the end zone and he completely didn't see the LB.
IMO, McAdoo is again playing to the strengths of the team, and for that matter forced to cover their most obvious weakness-- the offensive line. Love or hate it, a major reason why we went 11-5 last year was because McAdoo is masking a terrible offensive line with the short throwing game, and keeping Eli healthy in the process to give us just enough cracks to win.
Why do you think there's all this talk of getting Eli 30 completions a game, or whatever it is. It's because McAdoo knows Giants can't pass protect (so throw quick), but he also knows the Giants cannot run the ball. So what's the best option...? Use the short passing game as your running game.
So all these WR screens, hitches, etc, is because the Giants can't run outside, or off tackle, or anywhere...
Personally, it's frustrating to see, but I completely understand why it's the way it is... I think McAdoo is being smart here, honestly.
My larger gripe is that Reese and the front offense should not be sleeping until they can work a deal or trade for an offensive lineman that can help this club. As noted ad nauseam, with this defense and skill players, the window is now. Now make it f'n happen Reese.
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I agree for the most part - but I'm still troubled by the lack of execution along the OL.
Regardless of the plays being called, Jerry and Hart, (and even RIchburg) in particular seem to keep getting pushed into the backfield and aren't gaining any forward leverage.
Flowers hasn't been great, but he's been adequate. He and Pugh seem to be passable for now. The right side of the line really needs to play better, though.
I do agree with this. I would like to see guys, specifically in the trenches, win 1 on 1 battles.
I think this is both a fair and obvious point. To me it's unassailable. I don't think most of us are making prognostications on the abilities of the offense, and to ignore the additions of Ellison, Marshall, Engram is silly. But how can you not be concerned with the play of Richburg and Jerry. They lose one on one battles. A lot. That should concern us all. Not paying attention to that is whistling past the graveyard.