I just finished my write up of the first team Offensive play after reviewing the tapes of the first five offensive sets.
It is my view that the Offensive line played much better than they are being credited for. The problems that occurred through the five sets Eli played through the first two quarters were largely due to missed assignments. Engram missed quite a few of his and a couple were missed by Smith, once when he tripped (as much as it pains me to say this.) Engram played a lot of snaps in the first five sets.
I just sent my review off to Sy for his review, but those are my preliminary comments.
I did not see the holding that Flowers was accused of during a play, and Flowers held up quite well. A couple of times he did get his right hand up towards the neck inside the body, but it didn;t look like holding to me during any play. Hart also did quite well.
The Browns did pull a couple of stunts on Hart and Jerry, where the end would not meet Hart while he was backing into his stance and instead fell back and raced around behind the man engaged by Jerry and exploiting a gap between Richburg and Jerry, which was basically good game planned plays by the Browns.
Also Jamie Collins disrupted the backfield a couple of times when he was able to get behind the line from the right edge on a blitiz that wasn't picked up - same with Nassib on the left -- these seemed to be issues with TE or FB assignments in each case.
The other thing I wanted to say is that the Giants played a bunch of formations on Offense which I wrote up in detail, and it is clear they are working on a much bigger assortment of plays.
I think in light of the criticism being leveled on the Oline that they really need to be defended for this game. The screw ups were not on them. We will post the full details when Sy finishes his review.
gidiefor, thanks for all you do here.
I say this because we've seen it exploited several times. This is something they need to work on, not a sign that they aren't to blame for anything.
Also it only happened twice in the game.
But it sounds like the Brows were doing some fancy line stuff on offense. (for being pre-season). That is GOOD, better to make mistakes now, rather than in the regular season.
The tackles especially have been mostly good. Flowers, in particular, would have a pretty good grade from me so far. It's telling that so many on BBI insist he's a problem but McAdoo called him a "bright spot" on offense.
What's really interesting is how good the interior OL looked overall as well. I didn't see a single negative play from our backup center, and Halapio/Fluker each looked pretty good to my eyes.
In spite of the fact that we haven't scored a TD, there are a lot of positives to take from our OL.
Having said all of that, it's a bit frustrating to see how well Dallas has done picking up stunts etc. with 2 new parts on the line. They seem to have the double-team technique down pat - they really do a good job of protecting their gaps in a way I think we should be able to as well.
Still time to work these things out.
One thing I will also note -- Brett Jones had an outstanding game and played multiple positions including left tackle.
But yes, clearly a pre-coordinated stunt that used all parts of the line+ in conjunction, including another rush threat that backed off to misdirect the centers attention.
but its an example of how 'wait and catch rushers method' can give away the initiative (as opposed to runs, play action and so forth)
But yes, clearly a pre-coordinated stunt that used all parts of the line+ in conjunction, including another rush threat that backed off to misdirect the centers attention.
but its an example of how 'wait and catch rushers method' can give away the initiative (as opposed to runs, play action and so forth)
Richburg was engaged and the stunt was pulled after he was engaged -- how is that fucking up his reads?
One thing I will also note -- Brett Jones had an outstanding game and played multiple positions including left tackle.
Nice to hear that about Jones. Never doubted his work ethic or toughness ... IIR, I just wasn't sure about his size(?) and if he was big enough for the NFL.
Eli threw with more velocity than he did last season. But he was still looking for the early ditch . A properly thrown ball to Engram would have been a touchdown. Wait a count . More arc. He aced in a beauty to Marshal, who was obviously feeling for Peppers. Remember he did play very poorly last season. Obviously the QB stunk but I hope he isn't pulling a Jerry Lucas , here, and forgetting to tell the club that he retired.
OL ? Rex (who was excellent) said it best. Early penetration wrecks zone blocking schemes . The Long Hairs need a year on the practice squad .
Still I remain generally optimistic . I'm not losing sleep.
I concede, I'm not being cute, I really do and I accept Mike's conclusion - just have trouble reconciling the truth with my obvious slanted vision. There's just one small part of me, that wonders how much sugar it takes to make lemons sweet.
The eternal optimist, that flavor was dampened by the game
and our offensive line's performance.
Dion Dawkins or Taylor Morton what was SF willing to trade
to get are #1 ?
Don't get me wrong I like the Engram pick so far but I never thought that they would roll this same group out again .
Jerry continued to block the DT's back for a full beat, effectively double-teaming Hart out of the play, instead of picking up the cue that a stunt was in progress.
Dallas pulled essentially the same stunt in the December game last year at MetLife with the same result. On that play, the DT charged directly at Hart, knocking him on his ass. Jerry stayed focused on pushing the side of the DT that had gone past him, allowing a clear loop for the sack for the Cowboys' DE.
I have a good suspicion that the Browns saw that play and decided to see if Jerry has gotten a clue. He hasn't.
our center has his back to the gap facing, instead, right down the line to his left, as the man in front of him has slid over towards pugh, center following him and standing at his back to help wall off for the RB to run his route up middle.
either way, when 53 slides towards the wide open gap center is facing the other way down the line. center has not accounted for 53 as there was a false blitz from another player that got his attention instead
at that moment, RB runs right past 53, not seeing him at all
meanwhile, guard drops DE and tries to catch up to 53, too late, letting go of DE, then DE splits guard and tackle, but this was after manning is already in grasp of 53, top of play, richburg and manning and rb fail to read possibilities here
1. runner does not get nearly near enough to QB to simulate any kind of hand off
2. RG and RT are not in mode of executing any type of run blocks, they do the new normal sit on heels wait for a pass rush,
so, factor two, you sort of obviate one of the main benefits of play action ; that of allowing your OL to run block or put that another way, gaining the benefits of that such as the hesitation, either actual physical or mental, of the D
for example, in walling off the gap, RG could be down enough to clog the approach to the lane
2. did not account for, even see, 53 within the context of this particular play
centers job is not just the man in front of you
I don't think Engram and the FB in at the same time is exactly wise and I highly doubt in the regular season we would see that early on. 1 rookie is enough.
Giants continue to look like SHIT on offense. Something is wrong. They can't establish any kind of run game. Is that from missed assignments?
I dont know. The O line didnt play that bad last year either huh?
It is a problem!!!
Years in the preseason.
Flowers, going forward, he's not going to be given the benefit of the doubt with some of these holding, hands to the face, etc calls, I don't see how that's going to get cleaned up.
as I have been saying since dave brown days, no run game...dink and dunk, so your wrs get hurt as the d sits back, ergo you waste that high pick -anyway- via attrition
Years in the preseason.
Flowers, going forward, he's not going to be given the benefit of the doubt with some of these holding, hands to the face, etc calls, I don't see how that's going to get cleaned up.
well - there was some good and some bad -- the bad mostly being the rookies and that some of the schemes being installed did not go well against what the Browns were practicing -- the Browns pulled a few stunts that were effective and exploited some missed assignments -- I thought the pocket held up fairly well -- and that Eli had to throw the ball a little too quickly only a couple of times --
there were opportunities for the run that got "blowed up" from the side blitz, and due to clogs occurring in the middle
Seems ridiculous to take one play and claim he has "garbage" for technique and then call him slow and out of position, but sadly, that's what passes for OL evaluation around here.
Seems ridiculous to take one play and claim he has "garbage" for technique and then call him slow and out of position, but sadly, that's what passes for OL evaluation around here.
Erratum: That's what fails for OL evaluation around here.
All of these, sans the Jerry screw up which was half of the issue on that one play, were not OL play.
...horse collars which will be penalties when the season starts for real.
The best that can be said about Flowers' play against Myles Garrett is that he didn't fan on him and at least stayed with him.
But Myles Garrett put our left tackle on roller skates and wheeled him backwards with ease.
That's being generous.